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View Full Version : Lets talk a Little Defense



casper
07-10-2004, 06:27 AM
I have seen alot of talk about our QB, RB, LINE, WR, but can anyone bring us up todate on the BIG D, I don't have the local paper or news to find out and most of the websites are to baisc. so I was thinking (i know becarefull) :bom:

Can anyone give us some scoop or place to go to stay up to date :scratch:

:salute:

LosAngelis
07-10-2004, 09:32 AM
This might seem a little rude, but I really don't put the Vikings in the category of having a "great defense". Perhaps, "improving", and maybe "decent" or "good", but certainly not "great".

And yes, I wouldn't say "great" about the Packer D either.

Viking_Spirit
07-10-2004, 09:33 AM
The Vikes are definatly not in the "great" category. I'll give them "decent" right now.

purplehorn
07-10-2004, 10:28 AM
I think our offense is excellent, and D seems to
be improving. We will see in shortly over a month,
but great D is definately a stretch.

Big Daddy
07-10-2004, 10:57 AM
Our D is improving and will probably be better than it has in the last 10 years. It would be awesome if after the year is over we would be debating if this years D was better than the last year we had Dungy as our defensive cordinator!

sdvikefan
07-10-2004, 11:45 AM
That is true but I would say our DC is great. Cottrell will really make a difference this year, he brings so much experience and knowledge and with a D as young as ours that is very important.

VIKE58
07-10-2004, 01:45 PM
"LosAngelis" wrote:

This might seem a little rude, but I really don't put the Vikings in the category of having a "great defense". Perhaps, "improving", and maybe "decent" or "good", but certainly not "great".

And yes, I wouldn't say "great" about the Packer D either. Damn you know the last thing I want to do is agree with a Packer fan :!: But Los I have to agree with you on this. And it makes me feel dirty :!: Now I have to go and take another shower :!: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ndakvikefan
07-10-2004, 03:10 PM
The vikings still have the same crappy defense as last year. This is until tyhey prove everybody wrong this year. I truley believe they will be much much much better and have the potential to be very good, but until they show it on the field they still have the same crappy defense as last year.

triedandtruevikesfan
07-11-2004, 01:05 AM
Yeah I'm not sold yet either. I really want to see a new breed of purple people eaters, but until they show me something to be excited about I will just stay excited about the offense. Love my team as they do, I have never seen them with a good defense in my career as a football fan. Right or wrong I will put this solely on the shoulders of Denny Green. He was much too concerned about our offense (which everybody does have to admit is GREAT) but paid no attention to our D... thankfully Tice has the insight to pay attention to both sides of the ball.

casper
07-11-2004, 03:48 AM
"triedandtruevikesfan" wrote:

Right or wrong I will put this solely on the shoulders of Denny Green. He was much too concerned about our offense (which everybody does have to admit is GREAT) but paid no attention to our D... thankfully Tice has the insight to pay attention to both sides of the ball.

TNT I think you nailed it, Green did let his DC and DCC run to far to the wrong way (kind of Marshall Thing) before it was to late, But as a few have pointed out we have a young group of folks in and they all seem to be coming together, This for some players makes how many years together 2, 3 :?: and Unfortunatly LA is proably right, :silent: hence why we haven't discussed our D, and I agree this is proably a better discussion at the end or middle of the year :scratch:

But I really believe the team will surprise everyone for the next few years not just this one they have what it takes and from what you all and some of the websites you go to they seem to be clicking on all cylinders.

So I voted for the Players I think they are young strong have great backing and coaching staff enough so that if they "wanted" to shut down just about anyone they WANT key word ("WANT") DOWN they can but the coaches have to instill this into them they are the best F*ck the rest. (sorry :shock: ) if the Offense play's there game the Big D will Back it up... :cheers:

Thanks for taken the POll 8) but too help us stay informed :scratch: where can we go :?: anyone know any good sites for defensive information :oops:

hawaiianvike21
07-11-2004, 05:43 AM
I think our d is decent and improving. Even though they were herrendous at times last year, they showed great improvement through the last four games of the season giving up 20 points at the most to one of the best offenses in the league. Everything else is under that number.

I was suprised to see one of the magazines (athlon sports i believe or sporting news) having our d ranked at 13. :shock:

VKG4LFE
07-11-2004, 11:11 AM
I don't think we can blame our poor D on denny green! Yes, he was an offensive minded coach and usually chose high picks on the offensive side of the ball, but he did choose some young talent in the first round on the defensive side of the ball too, they just never panned out!! He did choose Hovan, and I don't think he is a total bust, he has (for the past couple of years) been the only threat we've had on defense so he gets double teamed. You can't say that he's bad for not beating double teams all the time, can you? Also Dennis Green drafted that Alexander guy out of Florida State, and he never really panned out as a great sack master like he should have been and he was either a first rounder or a second rounder. I think that year we could have drafted Warren Sapp, but we took Alexander instead. Finally, I hate to even bring up the name, but Dmitrius Underwood, was a first or second round pick. The thing with Denny was that he had a knack for talent on the offensive side of the ball (ie Robert Smith, Moss, Culpepper, Bennett, and Carter even though we didn't draft him).

AngloVike
07-11-2004, 12:03 PM
At the moment the Vikes D could be classed as decent with the potential to vastly improve and maybe push themselves to the level needed for a championship team.
We've been down this road before, new OC and schemes, some new players and high expectations. Each time before we've been disappointed and seen the promise fall short. This year is the same with the arrival of Cottrell, high defensive draft pick and the signing of several veteran players.
There are several questions to be answered and we may have to wait until the preseason games to see any inkling of answers. Firstly is whether Winfield can give us a genuine confidence in a Vikes DB to take on the opposing #1 WR. Secondly is can Udeze step up to the Pro's and help the DL finally get consistent pressure on the QB. If we have three of the front four causing problems then that can only be good for the DB's. Thirdly can Henderson step up and take over Biekert's job at MLB and lead the unit in only his second year as a Pro. He showed promise last year but will his off-field problems this year cause him problems.
Lastly is whether Cottrell has the personnel to run the schemes that he wants to. On paper the players may look good but if they can't gel as a unit for his defensive plays then we could see problems.
I really hope that this is the year that we finally get a defence that doesn't make us cringe or send up our blood pressure when they take to the field. We have the offense to put points on the board and if we get a D that is at least in the top 10 then anything is possible this coming season.
A good indicator of this will be the time we see them on the field, personally I would love to see as little as possible of them. Not because I favour the offensive players but it would mean that the D was doing its job and keeping the other teams offensive unit out of the game.

VKG4LFE
07-11-2004, 12:06 PM
Very good synopsis (wow that's a big word, I hope I used it correctly) Anglovike!!

casper
07-12-2004, 10:43 AM
I would agree and from the poll it look as though we all know it is going to be the coaching staff that pushes the players to work at it and make it happen, the players will do their job as long as they are lead the right way and have their internal goal to achive. we will see as Anglovike has stated

owensforpres
07-12-2004, 11:27 AM
i hope we can say or d is great this yr, then we can finally be respected like the d of the past

arialassault84
07-12-2004, 11:33 AM
Is anyone going to answer the guys questoin? He asked were he could find info on the Vikes! Where he could read up on them. I'm from Kentucky and i would like to know as well. :scratch:

Purple D
07-12-2004, 11:46 AM
I could see our defense becoming great, but It might take one or two more years to achieve this greatness. But if it is going to be great I would have to say it is going to take a group effort for it to happen. We will need all of the above to be on the same page. :P

sdvikefan
07-12-2004, 12:25 PM
"arialassault84" wrote:

Is anyone going to answer the guys questoin? He asked were he could find info on the Vikes! Where he could read up on them. I'm from Kentucky and i would like to know as well. :scratch:

Well Viking Update is the best place for in depth info, it's $7.95/month for the online subscription and I think around $40 for a 6 month deal. You also get access to every single teams insider page. It's a good deal.

Sportingnews.com website and the magazine have guys that analyze each team and give updates about things like position battles, individual player performance, etc.

Athlon Sports and Lindy's Football magazine both have team by team breakdowns by offense, defense, special teams and even coaching and management.

That's just for starters, there are a lot of others out there.

casper
07-12-2004, 12:51 PM
Thanks SDvikefan I'll check them out

muchluv4smoot
07-12-2004, 04:12 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:

I don't think we can blame our poor D on denny green! Yes, he was an offensive minded coach and usually chose high picks on the offensive side of the ball, but he did choose some young talent in the first round on the defensive side of the ball too, they just never panned out!! He did choose Hovan, and I don't think he is a total bust, he has (for the past couple of years) been the only threat we've had on defense so he gets double teamed. You can't say that he's bad for not beating double teams all the time, can you? Also Dennis Green drafted that Alexander guy out of Florida State, and he never really panned out as a great sack master like he should have been and he was either a first rounder or a second rounder. I think that year we could have drafted Warren Sapp, but we took Alexander instead. Finally, I hate to even bring up the name, but Dmitrius Underwood, was a first or second round pick. The thing with Denny was that he had a knack for talent on the offensive side of the ball (ie Robert Smith, Moss, Culpepper, Bennett, and Carter even though we didn't draft him).



Are you serious or joking? Green was unable to find good D players in the draft, with one exception, Hovan(and the jury is still out on him). You named a bunch of d players that denny drafted, that stunk in the NFL, and that is denny's fault. He wasn't good at judging D talent out of college. When we had a good offense and good QB's and WR's, tice drafted Moss and daunte. We desperately needed better d players those years, but he drafted a backup QB and a WR who was basically used as our #3 WR that season. Now, I am not at all upset that we have Moss and daunte, I am just giving examples of how denny continued to draft offensive talent, even when they weren't gonna start, instead of drafting some D players who would start. KC did the same thing last year, when they decided to waste their 1st round pick on larry johnson, when their D had many many holes on it. They could have gotten an onterrio smith or a dominick davis much later in the draft, and taken a D player in the 1st round. Now look at KC's team last year, didn't it look very similar to a denny green viking team?


The reason why it was gonna take 2 or 3 years for tice to turn this team around, was because of all the lack of talent denny left him on D. Denny left him a bunch of crappy CB's, old safeties, and a bad D-line. Tice has built our D-line, D secondary, and our LB's in his 3 years. It is unbelievable how much more talent we have on our d now that Tice has taken control of our team, than when denny had our team. tice has been able to find good D players in different rounds of the draft, and also bring in good d players through FA, and denny never did this.

VKG4LFE
07-13-2004, 10:46 AM
I am 100% serious muchluv! Like I said in my post, Denny was a lot better at finding talent on the offensive side of the ball and so that is what he drafted. How many vikings fans were pumped when he drafted Daunte? I for one was not, we could have had Jevon Kearse. But, now look what he has turned into, a two time pro bowl QB. We don't even have to talk about Moss. I did also say that he chose defensive players, but they just never panned out. I don't know what you want me to say!

TWISTED
07-14-2004, 05:44 AM
This Defense will not be great. But what it will be good enough, mainly b/c they will continue to make big plays. Sacks, INT's, and fumbles. They still will be soft up the middle with two DT's who are more of the undersized pass rushing John Randle types. Behind them is a totally unproven EJ in his first year as a starter. I expect to get ripped up the gut all year, until Cotrell sells out with non stop run blitz. It will result in tackles for a loss occasionally, but if you miss one tackle its a gain of 20. The two things that they need to concentrate on are wrapping up, and pressure off the corners. Both have been awful over the past 10 years or so. Maybe this kid from USC will bring the heat off the corner but only time will tell. This is bound to be a "finesse" ball hawking defense, not a a monster shut down defense. But if we continue to get points off of turnovers, it should be good enough to get us to the playoffs.

muchluv4smoot
07-14-2004, 06:28 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:

I am 100% serious muchluv! Like I said in my post, Denny was a lot better at finding talent on the offensive side of the ball and so that is what he drafted. How many vikings fans were pumped when he drafted Daunte? I for one was not, we could have had Jevon Kearse. But, now look what he has turned into, a two time pro bowl QB. We don't even have to talk about Moss. I did also say that he chose defensive players, but they just never panned out. I don't know what you want me to say!



True he did try and draft d players, but he also had offensive guys prioritized ahead of d players. He would almost always go for an offensive player in the first round, over a D player in a position we needed. Tice has done a much better job of using his early draft picks on D players. My biggest point on denny, was that while he did draft some D players, he wasn't good at all at evaluating them and they pretty much all were failures.

Also, I am glad now that we have Moss and daunte, but we should have taken d players instead of them at the time. Well, maybe not moss, since he was a top 5 talent that we got much later than he should have been taken. Daunte definately shouldn't have been drafted ahead of a D player. Denny didn't spend enough on our D. This is why tice has needed 2 or 3 years to rebuild the team, because denny left no good d players on the team, except for a few who were old.

I do see what you are saying though, I just think that denny was a poor judge of d talent and that is why we have had bad D's for so long. Tice is slowly turning that around, and we will be much improved again this year.

VKG4LFE
07-14-2004, 07:05 PM
I agree with you muchluv on your first and third paragraphs. Hindsight is 20/20 though, and I am glad that Denny took the risks that he took on both Moss and Daunte. I am liking what Tice has done in the draft, except for the whole being late thing!! If we give that D time to gel (all those young guys) they could (key word COULD) turn into a D like Tampa had with Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, etc. That would be fun to watch!!

muchluv4smoot
07-14-2004, 07:10 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:

I agree with you muchluv on your first and third paragraphs. Hindsight is 20/20 though, and I am glad that Denny took the risks that he took on both Moss and Daunte. I am liking what Tice has done in the draft, except for the whole being late thing!! If we give that D time to gel (all those young guys) they could (key word COULD) turn into a D like Tampa had with Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, etc. That would be fun to watch!!


Actually with us being late on those 2 drats, it helped us a lot. We saved a bunch of money on Kevin Williams, and we got mcKinnie instead of the average ryan sims. I am actually happy that we did that, even though it made us look bad, that kind of sucked.

casper
07-15-2004, 01:03 AM
VKG4LFE
I am liking what Tice has done in the draft, except for the whole being late thing!! If we give that D time to gel (all those young guys) they could (key word COULD) turn into a D like Tampa had with Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, etc. That would be fun to watch!!

no one could have put it any better

VKG4LFE
07-15-2004, 03:33 PM
Thanks Casper!!