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singersp
03-02-2006, 01:46 PM
Posted on Thu, Mar. 02, 2006

Culpepper, Williams claim discrimination in boat party case

Associated Press

MINNEAPOLIS - Lawyers for Minnesota Vikings Daunte Culpepper and Moe Williams have accused a prosecutor of racial discrimination, saying he charged black men but ignored possible crimes by two white men in the team's boat party scandal.

The attorneys served a motion Wednesday on prosecutor Steven Tallen asking for the dismissal of charges against the two players, the Star Tribune reported in a story for Thursday's editions.

Tallen, however, denied that race played any role in his decision on whom to charge, the newspaper said.

Culpepper, Williams and two other players face trial on misdemeanor charges of indecent conduct and lewdness for their alleged behavior on two cruise boats last October on Lake Minnetonka.

In their motion, defense attorneys Earl Gray, for Culpepper, and Joe Friedberg, for Williams, alleged that Hennepin County sheriff's investigators have evidence that the captain of one boat touched a woman's exposed breast with his mouth while he was at the wheel.

The papers allege this happened immediately after the manager of a strip club paid the woman and also touched her with his mouth.

Both the captain and club manager are white. The Star Tribune said it was not naming them because they had not been charged.

The newspaper said the captain declined to comment and the club manager said through an attorney that he has cooperated with investigators and did nothing to "directly break any laws."

An investigative report attached to the motion said the captain told a detective the club manager approached him with a woman, that he got "caught up in the moment, peer pressure," and that he regretted it. In a separate interview with a detective, the club manager said he saw sexual touching by the captain.

Tallen, who prosecutes misdemeanor cases for the Lake Minnetonka Conservation District, which has jurisdiction over the big suburban lake, accused the defense lawyers of playing "the race card" to cloud the real issues.

The alleged acts by the captain and club manager differ from those of the players, Tallen said, because only the manager, the captain and the woman were present, and the two men willingly participated in the contact with her. By contrast, he said, all of the players' alleged activity happened in front of unwilling crew members.

Stephen Doyle, an attorney for the boats' owner, Al & Alma's Restaurant and Cruises, expressed disappointment that anyone thought race was a factor in the case.

"I haven't seen any evidence of this," Doyle said. "I'm enormously sensitive to it."

The captain is related to the owners of Al & Alma's, the Star Tribune reported.

Tallen said the captain's statement to the detective wasn't enough evidence to charge him because, under the law, "you can't convict someone solely on their own confession." The woman was never identified, he added.

The prosecutor added that there wasn't enough evidence to charge the club manager over his alleged payment to the woman because "you can't convict a co-conspirator solely on the word of the other conspirator."

And, he said, the offense suggested by the defense motion - promoting prostitution - is a felony, which would have to be prosecuted by the county attorney's office. The sheriff's office did not present the case to the county attorney's office, which would have been standard procedure if investigators thought there was enough evidence to support a felony charge.

Gray said the crew's complaints offered enough corroboration of the captain's statement.

"There is substantially more evidence to charge them (the two white men) than my client," Gray said.

Culpepper and Williams are accused of getting lap dances during the party. Two other players, Fred Smoot and Bryant McKinnie, also have pleaded not guilty to misdemeanor charges over other alleged lewd acts.

They did not join in the motion for dismissal. Trials for the four are set for April and May.

Culpepper, Williams claim discrimination (http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/13995343.htm)

Del Rio
03-02-2006, 02:01 PM
Playing the race card.

NordicNed
03-02-2006, 02:13 PM
Holly Molly Little Buddy , is that Daunte Cullpepper of the Vikings over there?


I don't know Caption, But why does that other Captain have a mouth full of boobie Skipper?

Don't worrie Little Buddy, he must just be thirsty...

OH, that explains what I happened to see last night then Skipper...

Whats that Little Buddy?

Mr. Howell must have been thirsty too last night, he had his lips on Mary Ann's boobie....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/cebuned/giligan.jpg

Lotza
03-02-2006, 02:20 PM
"VikingNed" wrote:

Holly Molly Little Buddy , is that Daunte Cullpepper of the Vikings over there?


I don't know Caption, But why does that other Captain have have a mouth full of boobie Skipper?

Don't worrie Little Buddy, he must just be thirsty...

OH, that explains what I happened to see last night then Skipper...

Whats that Little Buddy?

Mr. Howell must have been thirsty too last night, he had his lips on Mary Ann's boobie....

http//i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/cebuned/giligan.jpg:sign5:

digital420
03-02-2006, 02:51 PM
well..

you are busting D.C for what touching a buttox?

and the cap's gone and done his nursing baby imitation?


shrug.. i don't see what's the dif.. i mean if one group is ok because they are concenting adults.. what are the others? non-conecenting adults? where?
i think some geeky service boys got jealous they wern't allowd to touch and made the call. as i'm sure that captain was as far away from that phone as any thoughts of him stopping the milking..


DiGiTaL

Ltrey33
03-02-2006, 02:59 PM
And they feel the need to drag this up....why? I think this is just a ploy to make THEM look like the victims in the case, rather than the accused.

PurpleRide
03-02-2006, 03:23 PM
Accuse everyone that did something on the boat or nobody. I don't think it is as much as a race deal but who does what for a living. If it was just the captin and the another non player this would have never made the news, the county and sheriff knows this, thats why they had to accuse the football players and not the nobodys that were doing the same thing if not worse.

mr.woo
03-02-2006, 03:24 PM
seems more and more nowadays people play the race card whnever something goes wrong

purplegang
03-02-2006, 03:28 PM
Race thing getting pretty old.....

COJOMAY
03-02-2006, 04:01 PM
I think they drag the boat case back up because Culpepper really does want to be traded (if you know what I mean)!

ChezPizmo
03-02-2006, 04:19 PM
"purplegang" wrote:

Race thing getting pretty old.....

Indeed it is... :mad:

NodakPaul
03-02-2006, 04:32 PM
I doubt race had anything to do with it, but it is just their attorney's making the defense. The more holes they can shoot in the prosecutor's case the better in their mind...

I think it was pretty crappy that the captain (who was related to the owners) didn't get touched but the Vikings did, but I also think it is more because of their celeb status than race.

Anyway, I am soooo tired of hearing about this...

DCPologirl
03-02-2006, 04:41 PM
well I feel you guys but I am thinking everyone here who is saying the race card is old etc.....is white?

Del Rio
03-02-2006, 04:46 PM
Here we go..............

DCPologirl
03-02-2006, 04:47 PM
LOL Del....I tried really really hard to stay out of this thread but I had to make that one comment. I'm done now lol

2beersTommy
03-02-2006, 04:51 PM
"DCPologirl" wrote:

well I feel you guys but I am thinking everyone here who is saying the race card is old etc.....is white?

yes, and ?
it is getting old, my g/f who is black, says the same thing..come up with something new for allegations, and why hasnt this allegation showed up before now ? Thats BS..i do have a question tho..if women are on a boat are they called seamen or seamon ? lol :evil4:

Del Rio
03-02-2006, 04:52 PM
http://sk1pper.com/buckle_up_this_thread_is_gonna_get_ugly.bmp

cajunvike
03-02-2006, 04:53 PM
I have the solution...charge the white guys TOO! Then all FOUR of them can pay a fine and the state of Minnesota can get a little richer and we can MOVE ON!!!

BTW, unless they have SOLID PROOF, the charge won't hold water!

DCPologirl
03-02-2006, 04:53 PM
"2beersTommy" wrote:

"DCPologirl" wrote:

well I feel you guys but I am thinking everyone here who is saying the race card is old etc.....is white?

yes, and ?
it is getting old, my g/f who is black, says the same thing..come up with something new for allegations, and why hasnt this allegation showed up before now ? Thats BS..i do have a question tho..if women are on a boat are they called seamen or seamon ? lol :evil4:

I agree Tommy....I wasn't disagreeing with the statement just saying that everyone who makes the statement is generally white lol that's all

DCPologirl
03-02-2006, 04:55 PM
My name is DCPologirl and I am proud to part of the feistiest website on the web lol :lol:

2beersTommy
03-02-2006, 04:57 PM
"DCPologirl" wrote:

"2beersTommy" wrote:

"DCPologirl" wrote:

well I feel you guys but I am thinking everyone here who is saying the race card is old etc.....is white?

yes, and ?
it is getting old, my g/f who is black, says the same thing..come up with something new for allegations, and why hasnt this allegation showed up before now ? Thats BS..i do have a question tho..if women are on a boat are they called seamen or seamon ? lol :evil4:

I agree Tommy....I wasn't disagreeing with the statement just saying that everyone who makes the statement is generally white lol that's all

wasnt saying u disagreed, but i would like clarification of the question i asked ..lmfao...(if you know)

VikesfaninWis
03-02-2006, 05:04 PM
"purplegang" wrote:

Race thing getting pretty old.....


I agree, pretty sickening isn't it?

NordicNed
03-02-2006, 05:04 PM
Bottom line is,

In this country there is STILL ALOT of Racism and Prejudice that goes on..

And the Preudice part goes BOTH WAYS.......

It's sad but a fact.......................

I don't blame the lawyers one bit for finding out that info and using it to there advantage....

But if it was me in PePs place, I'de be man enough to say, hell ya I had a girl shaking her ass on my lap. Maybe I was wrong but it's over with now and I'll move on and be a better man...

Case Closed.......

2beersTommy
03-02-2006, 05:06 PM
"VikingNed" wrote:

Bottom line is,

In this country there is STILL ALOT of Racism and Prejudice that goes on..

And the Preudice part goes BOTH WAYS.......

It's sad but a fact.......................

I don't blame the lawyers one bit for finding out that info and using it to there advantage....

But if it was me in PePs place, I'de be man enough to say, hell ya I had a girl shaking her jiggly butt on my lap. Maybe I was wrong but it's over with now and I'll move on and be a better man...

Case Closed.......

wurd..dont pass the blame, move on !

VikesfaninWis
03-02-2006, 05:09 PM
"PurpleRide" wrote:

Accuse everyone that did something on the boat or nobody. I don't think it is as much as a race deal but who does what for a living. If it was just the captin and the another non player this would have never made the news, the county and sheriff knows this, thats why they had to accuse the football players and not the nobodys that were doing the same thing if not worse.


Good point. If the Captain of the boat was sucking some boobie, then why hasn't he gotten charged in this matter? Why, becuase he is a relative of the boat owners? I don't think it has anything to do with being black, or white, I just think they are doing it to swindle some money of a pro football player..

I mean both the Captain, and the Club owner confessed to what they did, but they didn't get charged. I think sucking a girls boob is worse then grabbing her butt. So if anything those two should be getting charged with more then Williams and Pepp..

Del Rio
03-02-2006, 05:15 PM
"VikesfaninWis" wrote:

"PurpleRide" wrote:

Accuse everyone that did something on the boat or nobody. I don't think it is as much as a race deal but who does what for a living. If it was just the captin and the another non player this would have never made the news, the county and sheriff knows this, thats why they had to accuse the football players and not the nobodys that were doing the same thing if not worse.


Good point. If the Captain of the boat was sucking some boobie, then why hasn't he gotten charged in this matter? Why, becuase he is a relative of the boat owners? I don't think it has anything to do with being black, or white, I just think they are doing it to swindle some money of a pro football player..

I mean both the Captain, and the Club owner confessed to what they did, but they didn't get charged. I think sucking a girls boob is worse then grabbing her butt. So if anything those two should be getting charged with more then Williams and Pepp..

Tallen said the captain's statement to the detective wasn't enough evidence to charge him because, under the law, "you can't convict someone solely on their own confession." The woman was never identified, he added

The alleged acts by the captain and club manager differ from those of the players, Tallen said, because only the manager, the captain and the woman were present, and the two men willingly participated in the contact with her. By contrast, he said, all of the players' alleged activity happened in front of unwilling crew members.

ThorSPL
03-02-2006, 05:16 PM
I wish they hadn't used race, they should have claimed discrimination due to their status as celebs, or something along those lines.....

But if Captain Crunch was sucking on boobs, I'd say that he better be charged before anybody touching a lil' ass.

ultravikingfan
03-02-2006, 05:19 PM
I play the race card myself.

http://baldilocks.typepad.com/baldilocks/race_card.gif

2beersTommy
03-02-2006, 05:28 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

I play the race card myself.

http://baldilocks.typepad.com/baldilocks/race_card.gif

tff

NodakPaul
03-02-2006, 05:30 PM
I am not a lawyer by any means, but I would assume that using race as a means for discrimination has a much higher chance of getting the case thrown out than being discriminated against because of celeb status.

If they went the celeb status route, people would be able to claim that they should be held to a higher standard because of their celeb status. You know, the whole role model thing. But because their atorney's brought race into it, the only saf erecourse for the prosecutor is to claim that discriminatin didn't take place at all, when it looks like it did.

I really don't think it had anything to do with race, but this was probably the best chance they had of getting it thrown out. However, I agree 100% with VikingNed. Considering how minor the misdemeanor charges are, they should have just been man enough to admit to their part of it, attribute it to an error in judgement, and move on.

cajunvike
03-02-2006, 05:39 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:

I am not a lawyer by any means, but I would assume that using race as a means for discrimination has a much higher chance of getting the case thrown out than being discriminated against because of celeb status.

If they went the celeb status route, people would be able to claim that they should be held to a higher standard because of their celeb status. You know, the whole role model thing. But because their atorney's brought race into it, the only saf erecourse for the prosecutor is to claim that discriminatin didn't take place at all, when it looks like it did.

I really don't think it had anything to do with race, but this was probably the best chance they had of getting it thrown out. However, I agree 100% with VikingNed. Considering how minor the misdemeanor charges are, they should have just been man enough to admit to their part of it, attribute it to an error in judgement, and move on.

To prove racial discrimination, they are gonna have to show that the other guys got off BECAUSE they were white, not because they were RELATED to the owners. Otherwise, there was no discrimination practiced by the authorities. Yes, this is a murky situation, because there is no BLATANT evidence and the charge incites an emotional response from both sides...but if it is true that what the captain and club owner did was not witnessed by someone who was offended then there is no offense. I think that it is LAME that anyone on that boat was offended, but if those who witnessed the Viking players were offended, then there is an offense that needs to be punished...it's that simple.

BUT I also agree with Ned...man up and pay the fine and MOVE ON!!!

BigMoInAZ
03-02-2006, 06:22 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:

"NodakPaul" wrote:

I am not a lawyer by any means, but I would assume that using race as a means for discrimination has a much higher chance of getting the case thrown out than being discriminated against because of celeb status.

If they went the celeb status route, people would be able to claim that they should be held to a higher standard because of their celeb status. You know, the whole role model thing. But because their attorney's brought race into it, the only safe recourse for the prosecutor is to claim that discrimination didn't take place at all, when it looks like it did.

I really don't think it had anything to do with race, but this was probably the best chance they had of getting it thrown out. However, I agree 100% with VikingNed. Considering how minor the misdemeanor charges are, they should have just been man enough to admit to their part of it, attribute it to an error in judgement, and move on.

To prove racial discrimination, they are gonna have to show that the other guys got off BECAUSE they were white, not because they were RELATED to the owners. Otherwise, there was no discrimination practiced by the authorities. Yes, this is a murky situation, because there is no BLATANT evidence and the charge incites an emotional response from both sides...but if it is true that what the captain and club owner did was not witnessed by someone who was offended then there is no offense. I think that it is LAME that anyone on that boat was offended, but if those who witnessed the Viking players were offended, then there is an offense that needs to be punished...it's that simple.

BUT I also agree with Ned...man up and pay the fine and MOVE ON!!!My take on all this is to side with the rational! The lawyers are doing everything in their power to get this case dismissed. Now all those holier than thou without sin persona proclaiming guilt by anyone before allowing the law to take it's course, I got nothing to say to you! LOL!
Interesting quote about this issue taken from the STribe version of the story goes like this:


Not a frivolous motion

Prof. Joseph Daly of Hamline Law School in St. Paul, said the club manager's admission that he saw sexual acts by the boat captain buttresses the captain's confession, and could technically be enough to bring a charge. But the judge still will be confronted with whether the charge against the black players was premised on race, he added.

"It is not a frivolous motion -- it is a solid motion," Daly said. "They could very well win on this basis."

Hmmmmmmm? Who to believe? An educated scholar or an Internet RUBE? :scratch: Decisions, decisions! :rr:

Del Rio
03-02-2006, 06:30 PM
Actually the quotes given were from the prosecuter. The quotes about the confessions not holding enough weight to charge......I assume he is a lawyer and not an internet RUBE.

That being said in the end Daunte is going to have to grow a pair of balls and answer for what he did, regardless of what his lawyers are trying to do to shift focus, the evidence still remains and I imagine he will still be forced to answer to it.

BigMoInAZ
03-02-2006, 06:38 PM
Well a sure sign that the $hit will hit the fan will be when Jesse Jackson makes his appearance and proclaims his opinion on this matter! :roll:

Euphman06
03-02-2006, 06:39 PM
As long as there are lawyers there are going to be things like this. It's just fighting back, it has to happen when trying to prove someones innocence. It's the same thing as arguing, anything you can find to discredit the other persons statements can and will be used against you in the court of law, lol. It's just natural, the race card is the easiest one to play cuz automatically people feel bad for the person(apparently none of us really, including me). But by using that card, pep gets a lot of people on his side, mainly the black culture. So in turn he gets more support and and ammunition for the fight back. And I'm sure pep and moe didnt go to their lawyers and say I wanna pull the race card, the lawyers probably proposed that to them. It's the way of the world. And yes racism still occurs and it's pathetic, so maybe pulling these cards is a good thing in that it exposes the problem still, whether you view it as a good technique or a bad one. It is what it is.

2beersTommy
03-02-2006, 06:42 PM
"BigMoInAZ" wrote:

Well a sure sign that the $hit will hit the fan will be when Jesse Jackson makes his appearance and proclaims his opinion on this matter! :roll:

Johnny Cochran would have ate that case up in a heartbeat..I could hear him now.. "If da B!tch didnt spit..you must acquit" lmao

BigMoInAZ
03-02-2006, 06:44 PM
"2beersTommy" wrote:

"BigMoInAZ" wrote:

Well a sure sign that the $hit will hit the fan will be when Jesse Jackson makes his appearance and proclaims his opinion on this matter! :roll:

Johnny Cochran would have ate that case up in a heartbeat..I could hear him now.. "If da B!tch didnt spit..you must acquit" lmao :laughing3:

NodakPaul
03-02-2006, 06:51 PM
"BigMoInAZ" wrote:

Well a sure sign that the $hit will hit the fan will be when Jesse Jackson makes his appearance and proclaims his opinion on this matter! :roll:

:roll: This would become a thorn in the side of Zygi's stadium push if it blows up to that level. The last thing he wants is Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton on the Vikings side for anything. Extremists on either side of the race debate would alienate a majority of the voting public.

Come on Dante. Nobody I know thinks you are immoral or evil for getting a lap dance. IMO owning up would increase your respect level ten fold.

Mr. Purple
03-02-2006, 06:51 PM
"I have the solution...charge the white guys TOO! Then all FOUR of them can pay a fine and the state of Minnesota can get a little richer and we can MOVE ON!!!"-CajunVike


EXACTLY. Who cares what color they are, I dont care if thier purple. Whoever was in the wrong, no matter the color, should be charged. Simple as that.

Muggsy
03-02-2006, 07:37 PM
I dunno, dis kinda stuff might actually woik in our favor. We might gets lotsa free agents wantin' ta play for us if we have boat parties for dem, y'know?

Yeah, it's playin' da race card. And yeah, most of da people complainin' are white. Who else would be complainin'? Mexicans? Itralians? African-Americans? I don't think so....

Dis is just a defense ploy, y'know? Lawyers doin' dere stuff. But, hey, if some white folks acted just as inappropriately, den' trow da book at dem, too, y'know? It's hippocrates ta put da finger (no pun indented) on some peoples when youse has done da same ting, y'know? Uddawise, it's gonna stink for some time to come, y'know? Dis kinda stuff is bait for dose lens-lice types like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton, or anyone who wants ta get dere mug in da papers.

I hopes Daunte doesn't get inta too much trouble for dis, or any of da tree udda mugs, either. I just wants it over wit', so's we can get on wit' just gearin' up for da 2006 season, y'know?

sleepagent
03-02-2006, 07:58 PM
Drop all the charges for everyone.

This is absolutely stupid.

Wasn't this a private charter?

Who freakin' cares what happened on a private charter.

Nobody got hurt.

It doesn't sound like drugs were involved.

Let the boys be the boys.

I wonder if someone was hoping to make some cash on this thing.

bfld
03-02-2006, 08:16 PM
CP was not targeted because of race, but because of celeb. status, BUT minority race is a protected class while celeb. status is not (as it should be).

His lawyers are just doing their job.

I am not a CP fan, but I do not begrudge his lawyers doing everything they can to get him off: that's their job.

HOWEVER, outside of the courtroom let's not kid ourselves: CP either has no judgment (to step in when it becomes an embarrassment to the team) or insufficient leadership status with the rest of the players.

That does not make him a criminal, but it also shows us he is not a franchise QB.

cajunvike
03-02-2006, 08:33 PM
"2beersTommy" wrote:

"BigMoInAZ" wrote:

Well a sure sign that the $hit will hit the fan will be when Jesse Jackson makes his appearance and proclaims his opinion on this matter! :roll:

Johnny Cochran would have ate that case up in a heartbeat..I could hear him now.. "If da B!tch didnt spit..you must acquit" lmao

ROTF! :pukeright:

olson_10
03-02-2006, 08:39 PM
Daunte is NOT a leader..he is the wrong guy to have as the leader of this team..we need to bring in a big name free agent or have somebody else step up and assume that role..suddenly Randy Moss's actions dont seem so childish anymore to me..you had to know Daunte was going to play the race card at some point in this whole thing, doesnt it always happen when a rich black guy gets into trouble?

ultravikingfan
03-02-2006, 08:41 PM
"olson_10" wrote:

Daunte is NOT a leader..he is the wrong guy to have as the leader of this team..we need to bring in a big name free agent or have somebody else step up and assume that role..suddenly Randy Moss's actions dont seem so childish anymore to me..you had to know Daunte was going to play the race card at some point in this whole thing, doesnt it always happen when a rich black guy gets into trouble?

Now thats just a generalization, and its wrong to say that about all rich African Americans.

vegasvike
03-02-2006, 08:47 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:

I doubt race had anything to do with it, but it is just their attorney's making the defense. The more holes they can shoot in the prosecutor's case the better in their mind...

I think it was pretty crappy that the captain (who was related to the owners) didn't get touched but the Vikings did, but I also think it is more because of their celeb status than race.

Anyway, I am soooo tired of hearing about this...

I agree 100%, Oh yeah what law school did Pep go to? that's right I didn't think that he went so to say that Pep and Williams are playing the race card when there is no doubt in my mind that the LAWYERS are the ones who more than likely are doing this to get their clients cleared of charges is pretty narrow minded. NoDak I see what you are saying dude, what's good for the goose is good for the gander

vegasvike
03-02-2006, 08:53 PM
"olson_10" wrote:

doesnt it always happen when a rich black guy gets into trouble?

You are so right. I bet that you were really hot when Baretta got away with murder werent you

Del Rio
03-02-2006, 09:02 PM
Ok Daunte's lawyer is playing the race card for him.

RK.
03-02-2006, 09:06 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:


That being said in the end Daunte is going to have to grow a pair of balls and answer for what he did, regardless of what his lawyers are trying to do to shift focus, the evidence still remains and I imagine he will still be forced to answer to it.
It think it is Pep's old lady that has hold of the family jewels here. To late for him to grow another pair. :lol: Even if his lawyers beat the rap it isn't like anyone is going to change their minds about what happened. He should just say "sorry I got carried away at a private party here is my $1000 bucks" and let it go at that. Its like someone trying to argue that a radar gun was inaccurate in assessing your speed when you get a ticket. Its a pointless exercise.

olson_10
03-02-2006, 09:11 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"olson_10" wrote:

Daunte is NOT a leader..he is the wrong guy to have as the leader of this team..we need to bring in a big name free agent or have somebody else step up and assume that role..suddenly Randy Moss's actions dont seem so childish anymore to me..you had to know Daunte was going to play the race card at some point in this whole thing, doesnt it always happen when a rich black guy gets into trouble?

Now thats just a generalization, and its wrong to say that about all rich African Americans.
okay, when a rich african american athlete gets in trouble, is it safe to say that in most cases, the athlete will determine that his race certainly came into play when assessing whether or not he deserves to be punished for his crime?..politically correct enough for ya?

vegasvike
03-02-2006, 09:12 PM
"RK." wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:


That being said in the end Daunte is going to have to grow a pair of balls and answer for what he did, regardless of what his lawyers are trying to do to shift focus, the evidence still remains and I imagine he will still be forced to answer to it.
It think it is Pep's old lady that has hold of the family jewels here. To late for him to grow another pair. :lol: Even if his lawyers beat the rap it isn't like anyone is going to change their minds about what happened. He should just say "sorry I got carried away at a private party here is my $1000 bucks" and let it go at that. Its like someone trying to argue that a radar gun was inaccurate in assessing your speed when you get a ticket. Its a pointless exercise.

Yeah he has the money to pay his fine. I just think that the charges are reaching a bit too far, you can go to any nightclub and look out on the dance floor and question yourself as to if that couple is dancing or having sex :grin:

olson_10
03-02-2006, 09:13 PM
if there were two white guys there doing the same thing, then yes! they deserve to be punished in the exact same manner that daunte and moe williams are..that however should not get them off the hook though

olson_10
03-02-2006, 09:18 PM
nobody knows who those two white guys are..regardless of color, if you are a popluar sports icon that would be recognized by anybody in North America, you shouldnt be on a boat having sex in public..like i said, whether you are black or white, if you are famous, somebody is going to point you out rather than pointing out some no name schmo doing the same thing..you cant tell me that if brett favre was on that boat, nobody wouldve noticed him because he is white?

DCPologirl
03-02-2006, 09:21 PM
:scratch: I never heard that Daunte was having sex on the boat???? Um as far as the charges go it was just for touching a girls ass....much different thing

vegasvike
03-02-2006, 09:24 PM
I dont believe you really think that way due to the statements that you made. In the cases that pro black athletes do try to get out of any wrng doing is b/c of who they are meaning that they have always been looked as a star, and not b/c of what they are meaning that they are going to ask the justice system for a break b/c of their race. Now if the capt, and the club owner was doin the same thing then why haven't they been charged with misdemeanors as well?
if there were two white guys there doing the same thing, then yes! they deserve to be punished in the exact same manner that daunte and moe williams are..that however should not get them off the hook though
I think you only made that comment oncethe idea that there might be black people here hit you

snowinapril
03-02-2006, 09:30 PM
Could this be discrimination because they were the only ones with the profile to stand out amongst the other people attending.

Point is that we don't see these guys without a helmet on that much. The guys that are more popular stand out. While there were tons of guys that were probably witnessed doing the same thing but didn't get picked out of a stack of photos.

Does this have to be related to race?

Misdemeanor!!!!

snowinapril
03-02-2006, 09:33 PM
Man the Capt was the real victim here.


In their motion, defense attorneys Earl Gray, for Culpepper, and Joe Friedberg, for Williams, alleged that Hennepin County sheriff's investigators have evidence that the captain of one boat touched a woman's exposed breast with his mouth while he was at the wheel.

Poor Guy!!!! :roll:

DCPologirl
03-02-2006, 09:35 PM
I hear ya but newsflash everyone..... "the race card" is gonna be here for years to come. It's going to be here actually until racial discrimination stops happening which will be uhhhhhhhhhhh yah never lol

ultravikingfan
03-02-2006, 10:09 PM
"olson_10" wrote:

"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"olson_10" wrote:

Daunte is NOT a leader..he is the wrong guy to have as the leader of this team..we need to bring in a big name free agent or have somebody else step up and assume that role..suddenly Randy Moss's actions dont seem so childish anymore to me..you had to know Daunte was going to play the race card at some point in this whole thing, doesnt it always happen when a rich black guy gets into trouble?

Now thats just a generalization, and its wrong to say that about all rich African Americans.
okay, when a rich african american athlete gets in trouble, is it safe to say that in most cases, the athlete will determine that his race certainly came into play when assessing whether or not he deserves to be punished for his crime?..politically correct enough for ya?

See, the problem with racism is that we have to define everything by race and then blame it on the media a lot of the time.

Yes, the media is partly to blame but so are people's attitudes and how they address the issue. How do we know that Pep honestly felt that his race was not an issue?

Would it be fair for me to say that most Canadien members here are usually as uneducated as you? No it would not. (I am not saying you are; just needed an example).

NodakPaul
03-02-2006, 10:47 PM
"DCPologirl" wrote:

I hear ya but newsflash everyone..... "the race card" is gonna be here for years to come. It's going to be here actually until racial discrimination stops happening which will be uhhhhhhhhhhh yah never lol

Very true. Racism is an ugly societal byproduct that exists in every culture. It refers to the realized discrimination of ethnic groups by other ethnic groups that have more societal power. As long as our societies have some type of power structure, racism will exist. (Note, racism and prejudice are two completely different things. It is possible to have one without the other)

The problem I think that many people have with the "race card" is that it can be and is misused. Ultra does make a good point though. We only know what happened according to the media sources. It is possible that Dante really did feel like race was a factor. It is possible that race was a factor. I would be very surprised if it was, but I can't discount it entirely as a possibility.

If I were to make an educated guess though, I would say that it is merely part of the defense his attorney is mounting.

Del Rio
03-02-2006, 10:51 PM
So if the County takes the White guys and sends them to court Daunte and Co. will be happy and accept the punishment for his own actions.........................yeah right.

This is abuse of the race card.

http://www.pigazette.com/Pig%20images/race_card.jpg

Odin VAVikefan
03-02-2006, 11:18 PM
"olson_10" wrote:

Daunte is NOT a leader..he is the wrong guy to have as the leader of this team..we need to bring in a big name free agent or have somebody else step up and assume that role..suddenly Randy Moss's actions dont seem so childish anymore to me..you had to know Daunte was going to play the race card at some point in this whole thing, doesnt it always happen when a rich black guy gets into trouble?


Oh for God's sake, he was not stabbing anybody or doing drugs or running anybody over... all he did was...






Poke a woman's butt...













With his FINGER!!



I don't really see what this has to do with his leadership ability. The dancers had given consent to all of this, Daunte was not indecently exposed, the women who flew up there, quite happy to be paid to be naked, were.


The only possible way to justify this becoming a reason to remove him would be if video footage surfaced showing the hookers and strippers intercepting Daunte's passes on the boat. Otherwise, that's just a weak attempt to attach a nonsense issue as justification for your dislike of CPep.

whackthepack
03-02-2006, 11:27 PM
If the defense lawyer had come out and said that his clients had been charged because they were celebrities, I would agree with that! Their were 90 some people on the boat, only 4 were charged and they were big name Viking, what about the friends of the players that were invited on the boat? What about the other 15 or so Vikings on the boat, why were they not charged? Were they all are white and that is why they are not being charged? Or was it, because they do not have as big as names as the defendants? This argument I would have bought, but I am not buying the race one!

collegeguyjeff
03-02-2006, 11:28 PM
why don't us white people ever say we are discriminated against? maybe we should.

NodakPaul
03-02-2006, 11:37 PM
"collegeguyjeff" wrote:

why don't us white people ever say we are discriminated against? maybe we should.

Hey, if you feel you must... I, as a white, protestant, middle class male, tend to find myself rather short on times I have actually been discriminated against.

Remember that prejudice and discrimination are different things...

Vikes
03-02-2006, 11:42 PM
"collegeguyjeff" wrote:

why don't us white people ever say we are discriminated against? maybe we should.

They do ALL the time. They hand out leaflets ALL the time. The hold major concerts ALL the time. They have marchs all the time.

It's called the Aryan Movement.

BTW: I don't condone racism just making a point. Also I'm NOT calling CollegeguyJeff a racists just a health discussion and a fair question.

vikesoto
03-02-2006, 11:46 PM
I agree with Odin, they grabbed some a$$, BIG FREAKIN' DEAL !!!!!!!!!!!
They were consenting adults and alot of people seem to forget that. This whole case is about one thing, and one thing only. It's not about touching a "working girl"(because that's what she is) and not the race card. It's about $$$ !!! Someone is going to try and get paid !! It reminds me of that idiot at the Target Center this past weekend that was hit by a basketball and had to be wheeled out of there because he was injured. Bullsh!t! He played the part and wants to get paid,he'll end up sueing,you watch. That's why he was boooed loudly .What's up with the State of Minnesota? It's a big deal to touch a woman when it involves a couple "stars", but yet they turn a blind eye to all the sleaze up and down Washington Blvd. in downtown Minneapolis! Every other business is a strip club. Not to mention the mega-superstore of porn, SEXWORLD !! I'm not making that up,it really exists with huge neon light. That's ok though right. Hypocrites!!

Vikes
03-02-2006, 11:49 PM
"NodakPaul" wrote:

"collegeguyjeff" wrote:

why don't us white people ever say we are discriminated against? maybe we should.

Hey, if you feel you must... I, as a white, protestant, middle class male, tend to find myself rather short on times I have actually been discriminated against.

Remember that prejudice and discrimination are different things...

Good point.

Del Rio
03-02-2006, 11:52 PM
"vikesoto" wrote:

I agree with Odin, they grabbed some a$$, BIG FREAKIN' DEAL !!!!!!!!!!!
They were consenting adults and alot of people seem to forget that. This whole case is about one thing, and one thing only. It's not about touching a "working girl"(because that's what she is) and not the race card. It's about $$$ !!! Someone is going to try and get paid !! It reminds me of that idiot at the Target Center this past weekend that was hit by a basketball and had to be wheeled out of there because he was injured. Bullsh!t! He played the part and wants to get paid,he'll end up sueing,you watch. That's why he was boooed loudly .What's up with the State of Minnesota? It's a big deal to touch a woman when it involves a couple "stars", but yet they turn a blind eye to all the sleaze up and down Washington Blvd. in downtown Minneapolis! Every other business is a strip club. Not to mention the mega-superstore of porn, SEXWORLD !! I'm not making that up,it really exists with huge neon light. That's ok though right. Hypocrites!!

Who's getting paid? The county? With what money? The fines.....that is not much.

Now if these individual waitresses that had to get sexually harassed and put up with this trash decided to sue due to emotional stress or something then I agree. As far as I know that hasn't happened yet.

vikesoto
03-02-2006, 11:55 PM
If you don't like Daunte that's fine. I agree 100% with Odin when he said some people are using this a justification to trade him. We tear him a part for doing what every guy does at strip clubs and at bachelor parties. Oh but I'm sure no one has ever been to one of those either. There wasn't this much uproar in the 80's when alot of Viking players were being popped for DUI's.

vikesoto
03-02-2006, 11:58 PM
I garuntee Daunte and the other players will be sued. That is what I'm talking about.

vegasvike
03-03-2006, 01:19 AM
The only possible way to justify this becoming a reason to remove him would be if video footage surfaced showing the hookers and strippers intercepting Daunte's passes on the boat. Otherwise, that's just a weak attempt to attach a nonsense issue as justification for your dislike of CPep. HAHA!! she was running around the boat with a football under her arm and breast swinging side to side!!! :lol:

LuckyVike
03-03-2006, 01:26 AM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Playing the race card.

I can't believe they'd do that... :roll:

VERY sarcastic.

ultravikingfan
03-03-2006, 01:29 AM
"vikesoto" wrote:

I garuntee Daunte and the other players will be sued. That is what I'm talking about.

I am suing them all for messing up PP.O with nonsense!

cajunvike
03-03-2006, 02:07 AM
"Euphman06" wrote:

As long as there are lawyers there are going to be things like this. It's just fighting back, it has to happen when trying to prove someones innocence. It's the same thing as arguing, anything you can find to discredit the other persons statements can and will be used against you in the court of law, lol. It's just natural, the race card is the easiest one to play cuz automatically people feel bad for the person(apparently none of us really, including me). But by using that card, pep gets a lot of people on his side, mainly the black culture. So in turn he gets more support and and ammunition for the fight back. And I'm sure pep and moe didnt go to their lawyers and say I wanna pull the race card, the lawyers probably proposed that to them. It's the way of the world. And yes racism still occurs and it's pathetic, so maybe pulling these cards is a good thing in that it exposes the problem still, whether you view it as a good technique or a bad one. It is what it is.

"First, you kill all the lawyers..."...HEY, wait a minute!!! :oops:

FedjeViking
03-03-2006, 02:22 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:

"Euphman06" wrote:

As long as there are lawyers there are going to be things like this. It's just fighting back, it has to happen when trying to prove someones innocence. It's the same thing as arguing, anything you can find to discredit the other persons statements can and will be used against you in the court of law, lol. It's just natural, the race card is the easiest one to play cuz automatically people feel bad for the person(apparently none of us really, including me). But by using that card, pep gets a lot of people on his side, mainly the black culture. So in turn he gets more support and and ammunition for the fight back. And I'm sure pep and moe didnt go to their lawyers and say I wanna pull the race card, the lawyers probably proposed that to them. It's the way of the world. And yes racism still occurs and it's pathetic, so maybe pulling these cards is a good thing in that it exposes the problem still, whether you view it as a good technique or a bad one. It is what it is.

"First, you kill all the lawyers..."...HEY, wait a minute!!! :oops:

You said it!! I knew you would stick your foot in your mouth, all lawyers do! :sign5:

DaunteHOF
03-03-2006, 04:23 AM
RACIST!!!!





But honestly, i dont think its anybodies business what happened on the boat, it wasnt illegal to have sex with multiple girls, soooo what.

ultravikingfan
03-03-2006, 05:04 AM
"DaunteHOF" wrote:

RACIST!!!!





But honestly, i dont think its anybodies business what happened on the boat, it wasnt illegal to have sex with multiple girls, soooo what.

The obviously did something illegal.

If you do it in front of others (boat crew) I believe it is illegal without their consent.

whiteboy
03-03-2006, 05:22 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

I play the race card myself.

http://baldilocks.typepad.com/baldilocks/race_card.gif


LMMFAO!!!! that was awesome ultra!!!!!

DaunteHOF
03-03-2006, 05:24 AM
how is it illegal to have sex with the crew watching? I mean if they sign privacy waivers then whats the problem, even if they didnt its sex, how is that illegal with consent?

ultravikingfan
03-03-2006, 05:26 AM
"DaunteHOF" wrote:

how is it illegal to have sex with the crew watching? I mean if they sign privacy waivers then whats the problem, even if they didnt its sex, how is that illegal with consent?

They did not sign a waiver to have sex.

whiteboy
03-03-2006, 05:26 AM
"2beersTommy" wrote:

"BigMoInAZ" wrote:

Well a sure sign that the $hit will hit the fan will be when Jesse Jackson makes his appearance and proclaims his opinion on this matter! :roll:

Johnny Cochran would have ate that case up in a heartbeat..I could hear him now.. "If da B!tch didnt spit..you must acquit" lmao


LMFAO!!!!! that is f'n priceless!!!!

if the captain admitted to suckin on a stripper/hookers nipple, he should be held to the law as pep and williams. i've had quite a few to drink tonight, but i could've sworn i read some saying that even though the captain admitted to it, it wasn't enough to convict b/c he didn't drop the hookers name. if this is true, how come it's so easy to convict murders who confess? bottom line, pep and williams jus need to pay the fine and move the hell on.

collegeguyjeff
03-03-2006, 08:23 AM
"NodakPaul" wrote:

"collegeguyjeff" wrote:

why don't us white people ever say we are discriminated against? maybe we should.

Hey, if you feel you must... I, as a white, protestant, middle class male, tend to find myself rather short on times I have actually been discriminated against.

Remember that prejudice and discrimination are different things...

i have been too by one seargent in the military, he treated everyone who wasn't the same color like crap. but hey i didn't go and make a big deal out of it. who knows maybe pepper was treated wrong but i think this term gets used too often this isn't the 60's

singersp
03-03-2006, 02:00 PM
"whiteboy" wrote:

"2beersTommy" wrote:

"BigMoInAZ" wrote:

Well a sure sign that the $hit will hit the fan will be when Jesse Jackson makes his appearance and proclaims his opinion on this matter! :roll:

Johnny Cochran would have ate that case up in a heartbeat..I could hear him now.. "If da B!tch didnt spit..you must acquit" lmao


LMFAO!!!!! that is f'n priceless!!!!

if the captain admitted to suckin on a stripper/hookers nipple, he should be held to the law as pep and williams. i've had quite a few to drink tonight, but i could've sworn i read some saying that even though the captain admitted to it, it wasn't enough to convict b/c he didn't drop the hookers name. if this is true, how come it's so easy to convict murders who confess? bottom line, pep and williams jus need to pay the fine and move the hell on.

My problem has been & always will be, "Why weren't any of the strippers fined or charged?

If they're going to say the boat was a "public place" because it was on the lake, then they were stripping & giving lap dances & a lot more in public.

Del Rio
03-03-2006, 02:09 PM
"vikesoto" wrote:

I garuntee Daunte and the other players will be sued. That is what I'm talking about.

Maybe so, the point being he isn't being sued yet. So until then I don't see how this is about money at all.

Unless of course this is pushed by the state hoping to subdue in part the vigorous push for a new stadium.

Don't mistake logic for me not liking the guy. I have no emotions towards him either way, I just want him to succeed or get off my favorite team. I could care less what he does on his own time. Apparently the law does that is why I am discussing it.

Del Rio
03-03-2006, 02:11 PM
"DaunteHOF" wrote:

how is it illegal to have sex with the crew watching? I mean if they sign privacy waivers then whats the problem, even if they didnt its sex, how is that illegal with consent?

Probably the same way it would be illegal if you had sex up against your living room window for the whole world to see, you still get busted.

Only in this case when your neighbor walks by with her dog (waitress) you aren't pinching her ass and asking her to join in.

singersp
03-03-2006, 02:24 PM
Culpepper, Williams face tough fight in proving racial bias

Two Minnesota Vikings who say the prosecutor discriminated in the boat party case are hoping a judge will make a rare move.

David Shaffer, Star Tribune
Last update: March 03, 2006 – 12:19 AM

Two Minnesota Vikings players who want their indecent conduct charges thrown out of court are asking a judge to take a rare step: second-guess a prosecutor over a decision on who gets charged.
Legal experts say courts have long shied away from wading into what's known as "prosecutorial discretion." One of the few times judges even consider doing so is when a criminal suspect alleges racially biased prosecution.

That's what quarterback Daunte Culpepper and running back Moe Williams asserted in a motion submitted by their attorneys Wednesday in the Lake Minnetonka boat party case. They say that four black football players were charged with misdemeanor lewdness, while two whites, including a boat captain, behaved badly but were not charged.

Legal experts said it's not easy to make a case for prosecutor discrimination, and not everyone agrees on what proof is needed. It may take more than proving that similar conduct by the white men wasn't prosecuted, legal experts said.

"You have to show bad faith" by the prosecutor, said Prof. Joseph Daly of Hamline Law School in St. Paul. "It's almost like getting inside the head of the prosecutor. What was his intention? Did he intentionally go after black people?"

The party thrown by Vikings players in October took place on two chartered boats. The evening cruise drew about 90 guests, including out-of-state strippers flown in for the event. Some women gave lap dances or engaged in sex with partygoers in front of stunned crew members, according to the criminal charges.

Only the four players were charged with misdemeanor lewdness and indecent conduct. Culpepper and Williams allegedly got lap dances, while two other players, Fred Smoot and Bryant McKinnie, allegedly engaged in sexual acts. All are awaiting trial.

The prosecutor, Steven Tallen, who handles misdemeanor cases committed on Lake Minnetonka, has said evidence against the two white men -- a boat captain and a strip club manager who was a party guest -- wasn't enough to bring charges over contact with a female guest.

That contention is certain to be challenged by the two players' attorneys, Earl Gray and Joseph Friedberg. They say there's plenty of evidence to charge the two men -- more proof than exists against their clients.

Friedberg said that in 40 years of practicing law he has never before brought a motion alleging discriminatory prosecution. The motion will be argued March 22 in Hennepin County District Court.

Judges usually have no say in who gets charged with crimes.

"The prosecution has almost complete discretion in the charging decision," said Bradford Colbert, an adjunct professor at William Mitchell College of Law in St. Paul. That includes filing criminal complaints or bringing cases to a grand jury for possible charges.

And judges are wary of second-guessing prosecutors because "you open up a can of worms," said University of Minnesota law Prof. Steve Simon. If judges routinely reviewed who got charged with crimes, "the system could grind to a halt," he added.

The exceptions apply when such things as race or religion are alleged to factor into the filing of charges. Then judges must rule on the motion, relying on written filings and oral arguments at a hearing. The judge can only dismiss the charges against the players, not compel new charges to be filed against others.

David Shaffer • 612-673-7090

Culpepper, Williams face tough fight in proving racial bias (http://www.startribune.com/510/story/282161.html)

whackthepack
03-03-2006, 04:45 PM
They were charged because they were the biggest named Vikings that they could prove any wrong doing against! The were charged because of that not because they were black!



"whackthepack" wrote:

If the defense lawyer had come out and said that his clients had been charged because they were celebrities, I would agree with that! Their were 90 some people on the boat, only 4 were charged and they were big name Viking, what about the friends of the players that were invited on the boat? What about the other 15 or so Vikings on the boat, why were they not charged? Were they all are white and that is why they are not being charged? Or was it, because they do not have as big as names as the defendants? This argument I would have bought, but I am not buying the race one!

NodakPaul
03-03-2006, 05:18 PM
"collegeguyjeff" wrote:

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"collegeguyjeff" wrote:

why don't us white people ever say we are discriminated against? maybe we should.

Hey, if you feel you must... I, as a white, protestant, middle class male, tend to find myself rather short on times I have actually been discriminated against.

Remember that prejudice and discrimination are different things...

i have been too by one seargent in the military, he treated everyone who wasn't the same color like crap. but hey i didn't go and make a big deal out of it. who knows maybe pepper was treated wrong but i think this term gets used too often this isn't the 60's

I agree that the term is abused to an extent. And we have come a long way since the sixties. I have already stated that I doubt that any discrimination took place in this incident (although I don’t know all the facts yet). In fact, I would say that the vast majority of the time, discrimination does not take place. This was done because this is pretty much the only way their attorney's could get the case thrown out before the trial. This type of tactic annoys me as much as I think it annoys you, and I also think it hurts them in the public eye more than it helps.

But my point earlier was that "us white people", as a whole, simply do not endure discrimination to the degree that any other ethnic group does in the United States. For your old sergeant's action to qualify as discrimination he would have had to "through action or inaction create an unfair condition based on prejudice." He very well may have been prejudiced, which is not illegal. But you need to decide whether or not he acted on that prejudice and actually created some type of unfair condition before it can be discrimination. Just being an asshole to you doesn't qualify. If he was behaving illegally, then you dropped the ball by not reporting him.

I encountered many incidents and claims like this in my nearly a decade long stint in the military, and I can’t remember ever finding that discrimination had actually taken place against a white person because of the color of their skin. Discrimination based on sex, sexual orientation, or age was much more prevalent. I am not disputing your claim, just pointing out how rare it actually is.