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packmanxxxi
05-29-2004, 02:36 PM
Ok ok....

There are still several months before the season starts, so this is all just for fun, but what is you REAL assessment of the Viking season. All of you talk alot of shit, throw wild numbers around, and spout off on paper. But what do you REALLY feel. I mean, your all excited about some SI moron who picked the Vikes to go to the SB... but he picked the Dolphins as well. Anyone can see that that article is more of a late April Fool's joke than a serious national article.

So what is your REAL assessment. I see the Pack at 12-4 (20 starters returning from a championship team), Vikes at 10-6 (make the playoffs and improving), Det at 8-8 and Bears at 5-11. This may be the Packs last year as they will be going down hill and the Vikes climbing, but not yet. Anyway, I know 5 out of 6 posts will be some SB mombo-jombo, but those that can talk intellecutally, feel free to respond.

GreenBaySlackers
05-29-2004, 02:41 PM
Im feeling iffy on this year... but next year watch out!

packmanxxxi
05-29-2004, 02:45 PM
I would agree with that... I think this is the Packers year, but probably the last... then the Vikes/Lions battle for 4-5 yrs till the Pack rebuilds at the QB position

ItalianStallion
05-29-2004, 02:52 PM
I see the Vikes winning the division, and probably win a playoff game. I am not confident at all that we will win the Superbowl this year though, we are still a little ways off. Then again, anything can happen.

The vikes O will be tops again with our Defense arounf 15th or something, depending on how our young LBs play.

Personally I don't see how the Pack can improve to 12-4 especially when they barely made it to 10-6 last season (after winning 4 of the last 5 games or something). They WILL NOT improve their record this season. Losing Harris will hurt the Pack alot especially against us. They might make a wildcard, but won't go far in the playoffs. The bears/lions will share 3rd-4th as usual with neither making the playoffs.

purplehorn
05-29-2004, 02:55 PM
Honestly the Vikings will beat the Pack twice this
year. Get out your notebook and
MARK MY WORDS> Thank You.

JimFlyinsaucer
05-29-2004, 04:47 PM
I don't know where you get 12-4. The division teams have done nothing but get tougher, and you've got to play the first place guys in the NFC from last year (Rams, Panthers). Granted, they are teams somewhat on the decline, but they still have got a core of awesome players. And we've both got to play the AFC south and the NFC east, which are shaping up to be tough divisions. Frankly, I can't see the Packers winning the division this year, but they could still make the playoffs.

sdvikefan
05-29-2004, 04:55 PM
First of all you can't deny that the Vikings, Bears and Lions all made huge strides in the offseason while the Packers, pressed by the salary cap, basically did nothing. So the NFC North will be much more balanced as far as talent this year.

Looking at the schedule, the NFC North plays the NFC East and the AFC South this year. Plenty of good teams in those divisions. Anything can happen. I think the Vikings have a very good shot at winning the division title this year because they took care of their most pressing needs on defense.

My prediction is every team in the NFC North will have a better record than last year. Looking around the NFC, I think there is a good possibility that two NFC North teams will make the playoffs this year. The seeds will be:

1. Philadelphia
2. Seattle
3. Minnesota
4. Atlanta
5. Washington
6. Green Bay/Chicago

I hate to leave Carolina out but the Falcons look very good coming into this season.

Cissney the Viking
05-29-2004, 04:56 PM
I see the VIKINGS at 11-5, PACKERS 9-7 LIONS 8-8, BEARS 5-11, that is what I see happening this coming season.

LosAngelis
05-29-2004, 08:59 PM
I really do see both the Packers and the Vikes winning between 9-11 games each. I think this is the year both teams are very even, and it will be little things (that will eventually become excuses) that will determine who finishes second.

Injuries are huge, as always, for both teams. If Moss gets hurt, or Favre gets hurt, you can easily subtract several wins from their team.

I think the Pack has held steady, and therefore are capable of 10 wins again. But the McKenzie situation may be a cloud/cancer, but if we swing a deal and get a decent player in return (say, we deal Mckenzie and OUR third rounder for a quality starter) it could add to the team. McKenzie is decent, but would be hampered with the new DB rules anyway.

Minnesota has a lot of new players and a lot of youth. Guys like Udeze will be playing right away, and there will need to be time to allow this team to gel. They could get all their talent together and have a great season. However, the implosion of last year and the dumbfounded, deer-in-headlights, chair-throwing-at-the-last-minute coaching plays large, too.

Finally, Detroit and Chicago are major spoilers this year. If either of our teams focuses too much on the other and forgets that our division rivals are also improving, a division loss may spell the difference.

2005, we'll see. 2004...may the better team win.

amavikesfan
05-29-2004, 09:03 PM
packmann, i'm gonna keep this respectable. with all due respect, i think LAST year was the pack's last year. they really should have done something about their next qb this year, because the draft is not looking good for qb's next year.
anyway, as stated by others, because your team was strapped in the cap you were not able to make improvements on your team. sure you return a lot of starters, but were all those starters good enough to start? or were they just plugged in because you didn't have anything better?
your team is getting a little older, a little slower, and your draft, frankly, left a lot to be desired.
let me reiterate, i am NOT berating your team. i'm just calling it as i see it. :thumbright:
the bears, while i don't quite see the direction they are heading, are at least heading somewhere. good draft and improved their o-line.
the lions, while i don't see them as the offensive jugernaut this year that everyone else does, look scarey a couple of years from now.
the vikings do have holes. the linebackers are young. the ever-popular special teams still need to show me something. however, thanks to rob bresinski (our capologist) we are looking great with our cap for the next 3-4 years.
thus, without further ado :roll: , here are my standings after week 17:

minnesota 10-6
green bay 8-8
chicago 6-10
detroit 5-11

the division, as a whole, has improved. given an injury here or there, anything can happen. but i think this is a very realistic expectation of where these teams will land. ok, now let me have it.

VKG4LFE
05-29-2004, 10:48 PM
I have no clue what the VIkes are going to do. I think we'll be a playoff team but there are so many things that factor in!! Like someone said earlier, if Moss gets hurt that takes away at least a couple of wins. I think one thing that will hurt us this year is for a couple of games we won't get very much rest, like after the Monday nighters, and then we need to go on the road to play tough teams. I think we'll get to 10 wins and make the playoffs. The packers, I have no clue, it depends on how much Favre pulls out of his @ss!!

muchluv4smoot
05-29-2004, 11:39 PM
"packmanxxxi" wrote:

Ok ok....

There are still several months before the season starts, so this is all just for fun, but what is you REAL assessment of the Viking season. All of you talk alot of shit, throw wild numbers around, and spout off on paper. But what do you REALLY feel. I mean, your all excited about some SI moron who picked the Vikes to go to the SB... but he picked the Dolphins as well. Anyone can see that that article is more of a late April Fool's joke than a serious national article.

So what is your REAL assessment. I see the Pack at 12-4 (20 starters returning from a championship team), Vikes at 10-6 (make the playoffs and improving), Det at 8-8 and Bears at 5-11. This may be the Packs last year as they will be going down hill and the Vikes climbing, but not yet. Anyway, I know 5 out of 6 posts will be some SB mombo-jombo, but those that can talk intellecutally, feel free to respond.



I think both the vikes and pack will have really good teams next year. I see both making the playoffs and being dangerous teams in the playoffs. I think that if the vikes new, talented d players can gel quickly, we will have the D, to go a long ways, if we do make the playoffs. I personally see the pack having problems on the D-line and at CB, if they loose McKenzie(although they could get a good player in return for him). I think that these 2 areas will hurt the pack in the playoffs. I do realize that pack fans could say that our LB corp will hurt us this year, but if we do sign trotter or another vet, like we want to, I think LB will be pretty strong for us. There would be way too much talent at that position, not to be good. I think EJ and dontarrious will be much better for our D, than biekert and crockett were last year.

I see both teams with similar records, but I say the vikes have a better shot at doing something while in the playoffs, if their new D players gel like I expect them too.

Vikes 12-4
Pack 11-5
Bears 5-11
Lions 5-11

packmanxxxi
05-30-2004, 01:17 AM
I must say, even though I disagree with most, its nice that people really are realistic.

Anyway... have a great season!

UTVikfan
05-30-2004, 01:25 AM
Yah know, the cards last year fell out for the Vikes. GB shoulda hit Vegas. Tillman made his play...we woulda been in the playoffs with that one, and the dreaded Cards game...sheesh. Two strikes? Owwie. At the same time, Farve had "angels" watching over him.... And they got a team that didn't want to win the last game of the season. Not this year. Things will even up, luck wise. By standing pat, (sorta), the Packers lost big time ground. Minny has changed 5...I belive starters...GB with the Mackenzie sit. has lost two, that isn't much difference number wise, but will be result wise. We have gotten serious upgrades, GB hasn't. And this will tell. The Vikes have all the pieces in place, I am reminded of the '98 team in ways, but better D. Out on a limb, I will say,

Vikes, 14-2
GB 9-7
Det 8-8
Bears 5-11

I just cannot see GB even approaching that many wins, Packman....they were not that good last year, they had "angels", dogs in the last game of the season, etc. And if anything, they are worse now. But I loved the trick Farve had in the Philly game, if he just put his arm behind his back, he could catch those. =P. We will see, and you can also take your notebook out, and give me crap, after the season. =D.

Claiborne55
05-30-2004, 10:44 AM
I think the Vikes will go either 12-4 or 13-3. Not only have they improved the team significantly with players like Winfield, Udeze, and Robinson, but I also doubt they will give up games to teams like Arizona, Oakland, and San Diego. They remember how much those games cost them last year and they will not make that mistake again. As for the Packers, I would guess probabaly 8-8 or 9-7. I think they are a slightly worse team than last year simply because Favre is going downhill and the distraction of Mckenzie's situation. Unless Favre wins games by himself(which he unfortunately can do), I don't see the Packers doing any better than getting a wild card spot and exiting the playoffs in the first round.

Viking_Spirit
05-30-2004, 10:52 AM
Vikes 12-4
Packers 10-6 or 9-7
Lions 8-8
Bears 7-9

I think last year was the Packer's last year.

packmanxxxi
05-30-2004, 11:20 AM
I don't deny that the Packers haven't gone out and got many players. However, I do not think that means that they will get worse. They blew 4th quarter leads, like the Vikings, in 4 games. I don't think they will do that either. Take 3 of those games away and they are 13-3.

What I really don't get is the talk about Favre going downhill the year after he lead the league in TD's with a running back who also had 20 TD's. Seem pretty productive to me. No matter what 90% of Viking fans would still rather have him than Fumbleaunte.

NeoVikesTX
05-30-2004, 12:02 PM
Sorry packman, but your philoshophy of "returning players from last years championship team", will not and does not work. The Packers have average talent with an above average QB. I think the Packers will be decent, but will not make the playoffs. There is too much talent in the NFC and too many teams have made huge strides in improving their teams while the Packers have sat back and been in salary cap hell.

By the way, how do you call your packers a "championship team?" Last I checked the Patriots won the Superbowl and the Packers went out in the 2nd round??? And the Vikings are tagged as losers when we make it to the NFC championship game... c'mon man, get real.

Vikings 11-5
Packers 8-8

JimFlyinsaucer
05-30-2004, 01:28 PM
Let's not forget that they will also be adjusting to a new defensive scheme.

triedandtruevikesfan
05-30-2004, 01:51 PM
You know packman... maybe its just me, but you're really starting to get on my nerves. I welcome the fact that we have cheeseheads on our site, but what right do you have coming on here telling us how optimistic we can or can't be. Its not just this posting! Do I hate the packers? With all that is in my Viking loving heart! That doesn't mean that I can't be realistic about both sides though. In all HONESTY your team is declining. We've been up and down and back and forth on the reasons why so I won't go into that again. What I don't get is how you think that you're going to have a better record this year then you did last! You added a couple of rookies and thats it! You're team wasn't that great last year... they were decent and the only reason they got to the playoffs was because of our shortcomings... not your greatness.

amavikesfan
05-30-2004, 07:59 PM
tried and true is on fire! :angryfire: woooo!!!! cool down there, it'll be ok...lol. don't let his denial get to you, i've been there :wink:

DiehardVikesFan
05-30-2004, 09:21 PM
"packmanxxxi" wrote:

I don't deny that the Packers haven't gone out and got many players. However, I do not think that means that they will get worse. They blew 4th quarter leads, like the Vikings, in 4 games. I don't think they will do that either. Take 3 of those games away and they are 13-3.

What I really don't get is the talk about Favre going downhill the year after he lead the league in TD's with a running back who also had 20 TD's. Seem pretty productive to me. No matter what 90% of Viking fans would still rather have him than Fumbleaunte.

Don't count on it...

ItalianStallion
05-30-2004, 09:55 PM
Hmm, an aging QB who despite leading the league in toucdowns, was 1 short of leading the league in INTs.

Farvre: 17.4 INTs/season as a starter
Culpepper: 15.7 INTs/seaseon as a starter

Farve: 4 fumbles lost/season
Culpepper: 7 fumbles lost/ season

Meanwhile last season Farve throws 10 more INTs than Culpepper, but Culpepper only loses 4 more fumbles. Over Farves career he only really average about 1 turnover less per season, not taking into consideration his "decline".

Culpepper is the Pro Bowl starter who led the NFC in passer rating. I'll pass on Farve thank you very much, the viking plan on moving up, not down.

dan3ski
05-30-2004, 11:45 PM
While I am not to worried about the offense the defense still must be a concern this year. I do feel the Vikings can win the division but a couple of mistakes can put them in third place just as easily. This is the NFL and on any given day it only takes one mistake more than the other team makes to put a loss on the board. As for the packers they really did not do anything to help themselves and could end up in third very easily.

packmanxxxi
05-31-2004, 09:38 AM
I won't dent the Vikings have improved themselves. But to say the Packers have been worse when they have 20 of 22 starters returning from a team that won the Central "Championship" is ignorant. Having that many starters returning is invaluable. There is not learning curve. The Packers have possibly the bast O-line in the league. Their offensive power is compairable to the Vikings, and last years stats hold that to be true. Their defense, like the Vikings is still a weak point, but after a year under their belt, should be better. They are, yes, minus one pro-bowl corner, and no doubt will hurt. But one corner does not make a team.

I like the enthusasum at this site. Its fun. I don't agree with what people say, but I recognize passion.

Anyway, I think the Vikings will improve. I just think the Packers will be better. The Vikings are banking their improvments on unproven players. The Packers, on players who have been there. There is a bit of a difference. Obviously injuries will play a part.

Don't forget, you still have that moron Tice running your team. He's worth 3 losses per year minimum.

packmanxxxi
05-31-2004, 09:46 AM
"triedandtruevikesfan" wrote:

You know packman... maybe its just me, but you're really starting to get on my nerves. I welcome the fact that we have cheeseheads on our site, but what right do you have coming on here telling us how optimistic we can or can't be. Its not just this posting! Do I hate the packers? With all that is in my Viking loving heart! That doesn't mean that I can't be realistic about both sides though. In all HONESTY your team is declining. We've been up and down and back and forth on the reasons why so I won't go into that again. What I don't get is how you think that you're going to have a better record this year then you did last! You added a couple of rookies and thats it! You're team wasn't that great last year... they were decent and the only reason they got to the playoffs was because of our shortcomings... not your greatness.

I like how you claim that the "only" reason the Packers made the playoffs was because of the Vikings "shortcomings." Its as if the Packers winning thier last 4 games in a row had nothing to do with it. Kinda like one of my fifth graders who can't give credit to any of their peers. lol Just one question... How does returning 20 of 22 starters mean a team is declining? Because they have more experience together? Because they do not need time to work together? Because they have had one year to work out the bugs? And please, don't bring up the "Farve is old" comments. Those are just ignorant and cause people to not even read the posts.

triedandtruevikesfan
05-31-2004, 10:14 AM
Alright heres the way I see it. Everyone knows that Favre is getting old... so we don't have to even talk about it. You're D was no better then ours last year, and what is it that your team did to improve it? Brang it Batman who is extremely full of himself, but has not yet proven anything. Maybe he will be as good as he says, we'll have to see. Other then that, they didn't do anything to work on that. You were 11-5 and we were 10-6. We've done a lot of improving this off season from adding new players to new coaches. Your team virtually stayed the same. Now how is it that you feel that you're going to do so much better then us? Granted I realize you gave us a play-off birth in your prediction... but I really don't see the pack having a better record then us. I will however say that I would also think they'll be a wild card team... IF the Bears don't do as well as I think they will.

ItalianStallion
05-31-2004, 11:09 AM
You know packman, we play in the NFC north, there is no central division, so the packers can have that mythological "championship" :).

Nevertheless, returning starters would be great if the were all great to begin with. As much as you love to credit yourself with the best group of receivers in the league, I think you need your brain checked:

Lets compare for fun!

Driver:
52 rec, 621 yards, 2TDs
Burleson:
29 rec, 455 yards, 2TDs

verdict?, slight edge for Packers

Ferguson:
38 rec, 520 yards, 4TDs
Campbell:
25 rec, 522 yards, 4TDs

Hmm, very even. Ferguson has more catches which means A: he is more dependable and B: much less explosive when he catches the ball.

Moe Williams:
65 rec, 644 yards, 3TDs
Ahman Green:
50 rec, 367 yards, 5TDs

Moe is the better receiver, especially considering he isn't the full time starter, whereas Green is always on the field.

Obviously Bubba franks has more "pass catching ability" than any Minnesota TE, so I won't argue that. On the other hand we don't really use them for that as much.

Finally lets look at the #1 receivers:

Walker:
41 rec, 716 yards, 9TDs
Moss:
111 rec, 1632 yards, 17 TDs

Moss has more TDs than the Packers entire WR corp, almost as many yards as all of them combined and 20 rec short of all of them combined. Campbell and burleson are just icing on the cake. It looks to me like we have better receiving production, but then again Moss is a cancer to our team right? That production will do nothing but lose us games right?

Minnesota:
rushing: 2343 yards
Passing: 3951 yards
TOTAL: 6294 yards

Packers:
rushing: 2558 yards
Passing: 3240 yards
TOTAL: 5798 yards

Take what you want from the stats, but they clearly show our WR group is better.

purplehorn
05-31-2004, 11:27 AM
"packmanxxxi" wrote:


And please, don't bring up the "Farve is old" comments. Those are just ignorant and cause people to not even read the posts.

Farve is old.
And ignorant is thinking you might no what someone will read.
Unlike Packer Fans most Viking fans are able to read these posts
without help or someone else reading to them :lol:

owensforpres
05-31-2004, 11:52 AM
honestly the pack are done. they got lucky last year, and this year shows no improvement. our vikes will definitely win the division this year, with chicago edging the pack for second, if grossman starts all yr.

Viking_Spirit
05-31-2004, 11:59 AM
Packman-Fav-ray is old. Old age dosen't help in football, it only makes you worse.

packmanxxxi
05-31-2004, 12:40 PM
Italian.... ya got me with the Central comment... still trying to relive the old days I guess ... :P Opps

dan3ski
05-31-2004, 09:28 PM
Can Farve continue without his pain pills? Will an aging defensive line still be able to produce? Will a so-so secondary improve? Will a so-so recieving core still put up the numbers needed to win? These are all good questions and they all pertain to GB!

VKG4LFE
05-31-2004, 11:24 PM
Defensive line producing and the packers don't really go together!! Their d-line flat out sucks!! Just my opinion!

bigdogbovy
06-01-2004, 10:40 AM
Honestly we have probably the best looking team on paper since we went 15-1. does that translate to wins. we'll see. It is good to see that we have realistic fans here. Every packer fan believes that every year they are on a bowl run.

johnnyb22
06-01-2004, 11:49 AM
I love the Vikes but you guys that are saying they will win 12, 13, or 14 games have purple colored glasses on. They have a chance to do that but they are an untested team. They a great O but tell me the last time DAUNTE came from behind to win a game. Never, you need to have a QB that will bring you back to be a chamionship team. The Vikes have a tough schedule and a lot of new faces that haven't played a down of football in the NFL. The Vikes usually split with division rivals and there is a good chance they will do that this year. That would be three losses right there. They have to play Dal, Indy, NO, Phily, Wash, and Sea. People are saying we killed Sea last year but if you remember they killed us the year before. We have a short week before we play GB in GB and we have a late game with NO before our game with Tenn. I think that if we can get our D to play well we can win 10 or 11 games. But if we play like we did at the end of the year we will be 8-8

My prediction

1. Vikings 10-6

2. Green Bay 9-7

3. Detroit 8-8

4. Chicago 7-9

triedandtruevikesfan
06-01-2004, 12:00 PM
We have a term at my work called "be an eagle" let the negative comments slip right off me. I really am positive about this season. If I set myself up for dissappointment... well that will be no different then any other season. But I think we are going to be great this year. You my friend is what we would call a duck and all I hear is quack quack quack!

GreenBaySlackers
06-01-2004, 12:09 PM
Packman, you said that the PAckers have the best O-Line in the NFL...
NO WAY! Have you seen Tampa's?? That is crazy talent! they could have ryan leaf starting and still win with that great of an O-Line!

johnnyb22
06-01-2004, 12:26 PM
Everyone was positive last year too. Believe me I want to see the Vikes win the super bowl but I look at our team and try to LOGICALLY evaluate them. Tell me tha last time Daunte led us back from a certain defeat. Last year we trailed the Giants in the fourth what does he do, throw 2 INTERCEPTIONS. When we trailed the raiders he fell apart. If you remember, Tom Brady had to generate a last minute comeback to win. That wouldn't have happened with Culpepper. Our D has got to play way better this year and we have two linebackers that have never started in the NFL. Any person that knows about football would have some reservations about the Vikes winning the division let alone the super bowl. Let me state again I would love nothing more than a world championship but I may be feeling better about it next year. After I have had a chance to see how the new faces play and how Cottrel's new defense looks under fire. And by the way, I did predict we would WIN THE DIVISION!!!

triedandtruevikesfan
06-01-2004, 12:35 PM
hehehe... just givin you a hard time Johnny :P

ItalianStallion
06-01-2004, 12:47 PM
green bay slacker, are you serious about that tampa thing? Cuz if you are, oh my...

Seriiously though the Packers and Vikings' olines are both top 10, most likely top 5. Too bad rivera only has one year left on his contract...

GreenBaySlackers
06-01-2004, 01:32 PM
Haha oops, i was going off of a friends coments on that post... I dont trust him anymore. He must be a Buc's fan and I never knew. Ignore Previous Coment. If you change the O to a D and Ryan Leaf to the Brown's D it would all make sense!

ItalianStallion
06-01-2004, 10:08 PM
Keep in mind everyone it is alot easier for a QB to come back in games when the D actually stops the opposing teams' offense.

sdvikefan
06-01-2004, 10:27 PM
Packman you keep talking about the Packers bringing back most of their "division champion" team. Let's not forget how and when that championship was won, AND that the Packers got virtually no competition from the Lions or Bears last year. Seeing how the talent in coaching and players went up in Minnesota, Detroit, and Chicago, Green Bay's offseason is nothing but a lack of progress. They have a good team, but they will have their work cut out for them this year.

eelpout72
06-01-2004, 10:41 PM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:

Hmm, an aging QB who despite leading the league in toucdowns, was 1 short of leading the league in INTs.

Farvre: 17.4 INTs/season as a starter
Culpepper: 15.7 INTs/seaseon as a starter

Farve: 4 fumbles lost/season
Culpepper: 7 fumbles lost/ season

Meanwhile last season Farve throws 10 more INTs than Culpepper, but Culpepper only loses 4 more fumbles. Over Farves career he only really average about 1 turnover less per season, not taking into consideration his "decline".

Culpepper is the Pro Bowl starter who led the NFC in passer rating. I'll pass on Farve thank you very much, the viking plan on moving up, not down.

nothing like some stats to silence those cheeseheads, stallion..... wait there's more:

from last year,
Favre: 15 rush yards on 18 attempts (0.8 avg) for 0 touchdowns
Culpepper: 422 rush yards on 73 attempts (5.8 avg) for 4 touchdowns

johnnyb22
06-02-2004, 09:26 AM
Stallion - Granted the defense hasn't been great especially at the end of the season. But if you look at the Giant game and several others, the defense didn't play that bad. You can't be ahead in every single game. And if you look at the Gaint game as soon as it got close Daunte fell apart. He made bad decisions and threw not ONE but TWO interceptions when we had a chance for a comeback (the game was on the LINE). What I am saying is Daunte needs to make better decisions in big games or we will have trouble achieving our goal, the World Championship. I would give Daunte one or two more years and then look for someone else to QB. I know he has great numbers but from what I have seen he is not a clutch QB. I will take a clutch QB over numbers any day.

VKG4LFE
06-02-2004, 11:29 AM
I agree, in crunch time Daunte struggles a bit, but I would rather have Daunte who can not only pass well but can run extremely well. Granted he makes dumb decisions, but that can be said about every QB in the NFL. Numbers do tell a story in the NFL too though!! Daunte has the 6th HIGHEST passer rating in NFL HISTORY!! I'm pretty sure that the top 5 have probably won a Superbowl or two in their times, so Daunte's gonna get it done for us!!

johnnyb22
06-02-2004, 11:41 AM
I'm not a Daunte basher and he is still young but it is time for him to learn the position better. Bradshaw sucked his first four years. But he played much better later in his career. I am saying it is time for Daunte to show signs of maturity and if he doesn't maybe he doesn't have the qualities we need in a QB. And how he improves will definitely improve our chances to win. I think we will be in the playoffs but how far we go will depend on Daunte's decision making process. And that process right now is still flawed. The only other way is for our team to go deep in the playoffs is our defense. They will have to play exceptional and give us big leads in the fourth quarter, that won't happen in the playoffs. They will be close games that require Daunte to play and think well or we will go home.

VKG4LFE
06-02-2004, 12:29 PM
I agree with you about Bradshaw, but do you think his team would have been as good if he didn't have the best defense in the NFL all those years? I don't think they would have. He also had Franco Harris, Swann and Stallworth to throw to. Granted Daunte has Moss and Bennett, but he never really has had a D that Bradshaw had. I do understand your point about the playoffs, but I think he'll do just fine when we get there again. He played pretty well the first time he got us there (I thought) I don't really count the NY game because nobody played well at all, we probably would have done better had we not showed up for that game!!

ItalianStallion
06-02-2004, 12:39 PM
Keep in mind guys that Daunte would have "come back to win the game" in two crucial games against Chicago and Arizona if A: moss could hold on to the ball or B: our team could recover and onside kick, not get called for pass interference, recover a fumble, stop a 4th and 24 etc.

Daunte brought us back in those games, especially against arizona (11 point lead with a minute or two left, pleez). In my mind those are big games where other players on the team let us down, not C-pepp.

RandyMoss8404
06-02-2004, 12:45 PM
Not that I'm making excuses for Moss, cuz I'm not, but the reason that ball got ripped, besides Moss being too cocky, was that it was a pretty badly thrown ball. He tosses that ball over the outside shoulder and we're not even having this conversation.

johnnyb22
06-02-2004, 12:56 PM
we can argue the pros and cons about this for a long time but most people think Daunte fails when it is crunch time. And the Arizona game had we kept the last drive alive we wouldn't have had the first score or the onside kick or the pass interference, or the score. On an issue like this you can make points both ways. I feel Daunte needs to make better decsions and make some plays when we have to have them if he really is a pro bowl QB.

VKG4LFE
06-02-2004, 12:57 PM
Good point Stallion, but I do have to agree with RandyMoss8404. I thought that as soon as the ball did get picked. IF it was thrown on the outside shoulder, game over!! I'm the biggest Moss fan there is and may be biased (I mean I am biased) but he's not going to catch every ball thrown to him and at times corners can make big plays against him, or in this case get lucky against him. Looking back at that Bears game, I just don't understand how we lost! The Bears had 1 good drive and the rest we basically gave them!! UGGGH it's frustrating to think about!!

VikemanX84
06-02-2004, 02:42 PM
Lets also not forget that Daunte gets sacked way more times than Favre. Teh Vikings run a verticle style of offense, that thrives on the big play, so the QB has to hold onto the ball longer, plays take more time to develop.

I hear a lot of "We are keeping all our remaining starters from last season so we are going to be just as good". Thats not the way it works in football. You are either growing or your dying. look at our division, every other team SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded their team this offseason, and all you can say is that you kept MOST of a team that needed Denver to pull all their starters, an easy schedule, and a refs judgement call to just barely pull out a playoff berth? And thats when the Division was bad!

The Vikings, on the other hand, will have the number One offense in the NFL next year. We get Bennett back for the entire season, and Packer fans sure do know what he can do to a team! We added Marcus Robinson, again, someone very familiar to the Packer Endzone, to go along with the best player in the game - Randy Moss, and rising playmakers in Campbell and Burleson.

The offensive line is pretty even, the Packers are an injury away from it all falling apart though, the Vikings have talent behind them.

The Running game, I'd argue is pretty even too. Ahman Green is a top runningback, but so is Bennett. Smith showed signs of being one, and Moe Williams is very good himself. Plus, just in case, we have Mewelde Moore, who account for what, 80% of his college teams offense?

On defense, the Vikings have a solid edge here too. The packers don't have anyone as good as Brian Williams or Antoine Winfield. Brian Russel and Corey Chavous are near the top of thier respective positions. At lineback, we have Henderson, we have Claiborne, we have Thomas, we have Nattiel, We have Smith, we might be adding someone else, and just in case, we have Nick Rogers. The packers have Barnett? even with our injuries and youth, I'm pretty confident we have an advantage at LB too.

I'm not up to date on Mixon's situation. But either way, the Vikings carry a huge advantage on the Defensive line. ROY canidate Kevin Williams, along side of a slimmer, faster Hovan, is a dream on the interrior. Udeze is beat on the outside, with Johnstone/Scott/Mixon/Rogers on the otherside, I'd say it's safe to say that side is solid too.

The Vikings go 13-3 this year.
The Packers go 8-8
The Lions go 7-9
The bears finish tied with the Lions at 7-9.

VikemanX84
06-02-2004, 02:44 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:

Good point Stallion, but I do have to agree with RandyMoss8404. I thought that as soon as the ball did get picked. IF it was thrown on the outside shoulder, game over!! I'm the biggest Moss fan there is and may be biased (I mean I am biased) but he's not going to catch every ball thrown to him and at times corners can make big plays against him, or in this case get lucky against him. Looking back at that Bears game, I just don't understand how we lost! The Bears had 1 good drive and the rest we basically gave them!! UGGGH it's frustrating to think about!!

He is the best player in the league. I don't think the fact the ball was thrown to different shoulder on a fade route is an excuse there buddy.

LosAngelis
06-02-2004, 03:27 PM
I really dont' care about this conversation, but just a comparison between the two QB's.

Favre - falls backwards with every pass. Avoids hits and sacks.

Culpepper - throws into his passes and is always looking to scramble (moving forward).

Someone commented that Culpepper gets sacked more often than Favre...that can be one big reason why.

bigdogbovy
06-02-2004, 04:04 PM
"LosAngelis" wrote:

I really dont' care about this conversation, but just a comparison between the two QB's.

Favre - falls backwards with every pass. Avoids hits and sacks.

Culpepper - throws into his passes and is always looking to scramble (moving forward).

Someone commented that Culpepper gets sacked more often than Favre...that can be one big reason why.

Favre has had similar years to Culpepper as far as sacks go, I think it has more to do with the OLine.

Culpepper is one hell of a QB and the Vikes who don;t say so are just frustrated and the never ending eternal frickin' choking. But that should end sometime soon

LosAngelis
06-02-2004, 06:21 PM
"bigdogbovy" wrote:



Culpepper is one hell of a QB and the Vikes who don;t say so are just frustrated and the never ending eternal frickin' choking. But that should end sometime soon

Actually, I agree...and I've said Pepper is the best thing you guys have going.

That stated, when you have a QB that WANTS to be mobile and is often playing in an offense designed for him to run, you get the happy feet and the injuries.

I also think that Pepper is going to continue to have problems in pressure situations for the same reason...he wants to run, then has to stay and make the big pass. In crunch time, defenses tighten up and watch for him on the run, so that he has to pass. He loses his additional weapon of running.

Most QB's, not just Favre, just look to pass and run in case of total emergency. It's great short-term, but over the course of a season, its hard to stay healthy and keep finding holes when the playoffs start.

packmanxxxi
06-02-2004, 06:55 PM
"The Vikings, on the other hand, will have the number One offense in the NFL next year."

Pretty bold. I actually thought you had a decent response Vikeman... until you said...

"The Running game, I'd argue is pretty even too."

ummmmmmmm........... not even sure how to respond to that.

Also.... since when is getting new player equated to improving???? New players do NOT equal improving. You improved at CB, significantly, but that is it.

Vikeman... your an intelligent person, but you spouted of names as if they were All pros.... your fall this year will be rather miserable my friend...

Anyway... I want to thank the rest of you for quite a lively awesome discussion. While I don't agree, it had been fun.

Just one more question.... what would Culpepper be like WITHOUT Moss? hmmmmmmmmmmm bye bye all pro.....

BigEasyViking
06-02-2004, 07:59 PM
Honestly,

I see the Vikes having a great year at 13-3, and see the Pack tied at 9-7 with the Lions.

JimFlyinsaucer
06-02-2004, 08:26 PM
I think the main reason Culpepper gets sacked a lot is that he doesn't have the greatest awareness in the world. Honestly, when I watch him take one, it looks as though he never saw it coming. It's those kind of lapses in the fundamentals that make me have my doubts about him. Now they say that the sixth year's the charm for QBs (worked for Manning). I hope he does improve, but anyone who thinks he has no room to improve is sadly deluding himself.

I think Daunte needs to work on three things:

1. Hold on to the ball, not to beat a tired point.
2. Play up to his size (i.e., don't puss out and run to the sidelines when there's just a 190 lb DB in in front of him.)
3. Work on his awareness.

On the positive side, he has improved on his accuracy a lot, and he's got a lot of power in his arm. If he can significantlty improve on one or more of the things listed above, I would then count him among the elite quarterbacks of the league.

ItalianStallion
06-02-2004, 09:07 PM
I think those are all fair point flyinsaucer. He is not a perfect QB, nor the best in the league, but he is a great QB and if he can improve on those things, he will do grea this season.

vikings_fan66
06-02-2004, 09:45 PM
Vikes will win it all this year

VikemanX84
06-02-2004, 10:04 PM
I don't think it's abold statement at all. There was no one even close to us last year! All we did was improve.

"Also.... since when is getting new player equated to improving???? New players do NOT equal improving." - Usually, getting new players that have proven themselves does equal improving. There will always be the occiasional Bust.

The running game is pretty even. The Vikings averaged 146.4 yards per game and the Packers averaged about 159.9 yards per game. Thats 1 QB Scramble a game away.

The Vikings also played basically the entire season without their best runningback!!!!!!!!!

A Quarterback is nothing without a team.

Wake up and smell the rotting chese, the Packers Suck.

8-8, if your lucky, and keep the ball out of Favre's hands.

superior230bartime
06-02-2004, 10:39 PM
Good to see the Vikeman is back with his ridiculously biased opinions. No one was even close to you last year and all you did was improve? What the hell are you talking about?

You say 8-8 if we are lucky. I propose a bet. I will give you $100 for every game under 8-8 the Packers are and you give me $100 for every game over 8-8 they end up. PM me if you would like to take advantage of this offer and I will set up the details. After all, the worst you would be looking at is breaking even if we are lucky.

You say the packers line is one injury away from falling apart as if you have any idea about their backup linemen. Name one player without looking it up on the internet. I have no clue if you guys have any depth at O-line but at least I'm smart enough to not talk about something I don't know shit about.

How do you figure that the Vike's defense is better than the packers? You have the same players that stunk it up last year with the exception of Winfield and Udeze who is an unproven rookie. The Packers D was a top ten defense after they acquired Grady Jackson to shore up the middle. The loss of McKenzie could hurt but Michael hawthorne filled in very well at the end of last year when he was injured and then they have Carroll, Thomas and the fastest player in last years draft - Chris Johnson who was injured all of last year after an outstanding preseason.

Honestly, Winfield and the punter you got are the only improvements you made. Robinson isn't really an improvement from what you had. Moss is the man but the top 3 Packer receivers(Walker, Ferguson, and Driver) are all better than anyone that you can suit up as your #2. You talk about what a great offseason you guys had but with all the cap room you had, you did about the least that would be expected.

Realistically, I would predict around 10-6 or 11-5 for both the Pack and the Vikes. It's obvious to me you know the Vikes in and out even if you overestimate their talents and underestimate their flaws at all times. YOu don't know shit about the packers though so don't talk about things when you don't have a clue.

ItalianStallion
06-02-2004, 11:45 PM
Jeez Bartime, admit that you are as bad as Vikeman.

First off, yes Vikeman is and always has been very unrealisticly optimistic when talking about the vikings, but he is usually on base when analysing the Packers.

We have a great offense, probably the most balanced and explosive in the league. Clearly better or equal in every aspect than the Packers. The only thing the Packers have better is a pass catching TE instead or a blocking TE, and one very good RB instead of 3 good rbs (though Bennett, when Healthy is every bit as good). Seriously WTF are you talking about bragging about your WRs, check my post in this thread it clearly shows your corp as seriously lacking.

Heck Robinson only started 5 games last year but still managed to post comparably better stats than Driver or Ferguson.

31rec 451yards 6tds

Personally, I don't think Robinson is a great WR, but he has been a 1000 yard WR before and has the potential with Moss opposite to him a C-Pepp throwing him the ball.

Um actually we don't have the same players that "stunk it up last season". Cripes, you gave Vikeman such a hard time for making a blatant statement without any knowledge of Packer lineman, yet you do the exact same thing. As a matter of fact:

Henri Crockett, Greg biekert, Fred Robbins, Denard Walker and other older players who contributed mainly to the mid-season collapse due to their lack of speed are now gone.

We will be replacing then with the likes of: Antoine Winfield, E.J. Henderson, Dontarrious Thomas, Kenechi Udeze, (most likely Trotter or Gildon), Steve Martin, and more experienced Brian Williams, Brian Russell, K-Will etc.

We still have our safeties that were 1 and 2 in the league in INTs.

Now lets look at the Packers: They lost their best corner, have zero depth at DL, are missing a good DE (even KGB can't stop the run) and DT. Grady Jackson is O.K., but who else. Al Harris is a nickle corner and two ROOKIE CORNERS is all you have to stop Moss. Mark Roman was a great pick-up for that SS position, a bengals reject, impressive. You re-signed Jue, he sure was a keeper. Who are you OLBs? Hannibal Navies and Nai'il Diggs, there is a feared tandem across the league. Face it the only players on the packers defense worth even mentioning are Sharper, Barnett and KGB. Personally I have not even heard of Cris Johnson, but you bragging about him carries about as much weight as us saying Roanall Smith is a future All-Pro.

The fact that we had cap room in itself shows the vikings organization had a better offseason than the Packers. The fact the we didn't spend is as frivolously on risky Free agents like Jevon Kearse or Ogunleye is a testament to how well we manage the cap and how poorly the Packers manage theirs. Jevon could be the next Joe Johnson.

You know, now that you mention it the Packers do look like they had a better offseason. Personally it doesn't look like they improved in any area, so their ability to retain their record of last year does not look probable.

superior230bartime
06-03-2004, 12:49 AM
The fact that we had cap room in itself shows the vikings organization had a better offseason than the Packers. The fact the we didn't spend is as frivolously on risky Free agents like Jevon Kearse or Ogunleye is a testament to how well we manage the cap and how poorly the Packers manage theirs. Jevon could be the next Joe Johnson.

You know, now that you mention it the Packers do look like they had a better offseason. Personally it doesn't look like they improved in any area, so their ability to retain their record of last year does not look probable.[/quote]

Where did this become a debate about who had the better offseason? I've admitted in a previous post that the Vikings had a better offseason and with the amount of cap room they had vs. what the Packers had, the Vikes management should have been shot if they didn't.

Then you go on to say that I am being just like Vikmean in talking about your defense suiting up the same players but to prove me wrong you name the two guys I said, EJ Henderson who was on the team last year, Donterrious Thomas who is a rookie that will see little playing time this year except for special teams, 2 guys who just were cut that the Packers are also RUMORED to be looking at, and Steve Martin who I have no idea who the hell he is but if he is an improvement, congratulations. Your mentioning of Thomas and Henderson seems to be bragging them up as you rip on the abilities of Diggs and Navies. Diggs is much better than any of your linebackers are at this point in their careers and Navies isn't any worse than any of them either.

YOu mention your 2 safeties were number one and number 2 in interceptions. Do you honestly think this had everything to do with ability and nothing to do with being in the right place at the right time? Have you ever heard of Tom Flynn? He led the league in interceptions one year as a safety for the Packers in the 80's so I might as well brag about him. How about Mike Prior? He used to get a ton of interceptions for the packers that were overthrown passes right to him - more like punt returns he could have fair caught than actual interceptions. That doesn't mean these two were good players. Chavous has some talent but Brian Russel is average at best.

You then mention Marcus Robinsons stats as comparably better. If I remember right, he had 4 TDS in one game. I remember becuase he was picked up by someone in every fantasy league that week. In my league and probably every other one by that guy that plays fantasy football but has little to no football knowledge. He then went on to suck the rest of the year. I'm sure you also failed to consider that all the Packer receivers were injured for various parts of the season including Ferguson for about half of the year.

If you don't think I am being realistic by predicting the packers at 10-6 or 11-5(along with the Vikes by the way) the same bet I offered Vikeman applies to you.

BigEasyViking
06-03-2004, 12:59 AM
"Then you go on to say that I am being just like Vikmean in talking about your defense suiting up the same players but to prove me wrong you name the two guys I said, EJ Henderson who was on the team last year, Donterrious Thomas who is a rookie that will see little playing time this year except for special teams, and Steve Martin who I have no idea who the hell he is but if he is an improvement, congratulations. Your mentioning of Thomas and Henderson seems to be bragging them up as you rip on the abilities of Diggs and Navies. Diggs is much better than any of your linebackers are at this point in their careers and Navies isn't any worse than any of them either. " QUOTE FROM BARTIME:

Bartime, actually tice is talking that DT or Dontarrious Thomas will be a starter at outside linebacker, and it will probably be Steve Martin that will see little to no playing time. Just thought that I would give you the latest...

P.S I would take Chris Claiborn over Diggs anyday, and after this year probably DT and EJ as well, but for that we'll just have to wait and see!

hawaiianvike21
06-03-2004, 02:16 AM
I think some of us forgot how hard our schedule is, especially on the road where we havent won since forever. Not to forget how we lose to inferior teams like arizona. :angryfire:

chubchub
06-03-2004, 02:49 AM
The bottom line is we will never win with Culpepper. You all can say what you want- I've been following the Vikes for 35 years- I live and breath the Vikes- I know what it takes to win a super bowl and we don't have it at Q.B. Mark my words.

purplehorn
06-03-2004, 08:06 AM
"chubchub" wrote:

The bottom line is we will never win with Culpepper. You all can say what you want- I've been following the Vikes for 35 years- I live and breath the Vikes- I know what it takes to win a super bowl and we don't have it at Q.B. Mark my words. (Vikeman- I found out recently that you are still in high school- No disrespect but you have no place in this forum- you're a child who knows nothing about how this game should really be played)

Dam Chub I wonder what makes you an authority. C-Pep was voted into
the pro bowl twice. I think that qualifies him as a pretty dang good QB.
AS far as Vikeman I think his posts are a lot more mature and good natured
than your crazy negitive banterings. :roll:

johnnyb22
06-03-2004, 10:24 AM
chub has a point about culpepper but it still too soon to give up on him. There have been quite a few QBs who have become great players after slow starts. As far as vikeman having no place on the forum, that is out of line. Vikeman may be a little hyper and optimistic about the Vikes but who wasn't at his age. And he makes some good points and some bad points, NO DIFFERENT THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THIS SITE. You keep up the good work Vikeman, I wish I had the same amount of faith in our team.

triedandtruevikesfan
06-03-2004, 10:42 AM
"hawaiianvike21" wrote:

I think some of us forgot how hard our schedule is, especially on the road where we havent won since forever. Not to forget how we lose to inferior teams like arizona. :angryfire:

Well its fortunate then that we play good teams for the most part this year! We all know how we seem to step it up in those games! So to me saying that we have a hard schedule is something to be viewed as a positive thing!

triedandtruevikesfan
06-03-2004, 10:54 AM
"chubchub" wrote:

The bottom line is we will never win with Culpepper. You all can say what you want- I've been following the Vikes for 35 years- I live and breath the Vikes- I know what it takes to win a super bowl and we don't have it at Q.B. Mark my words. (Vikeman- I found out recently that you are still in high school- No disrespect but you have no place in this forum- you're a child who knows nothing about how this game should really be played)

No disrespect? I think that showed a lot of disrespect! The fact that he is in high school is not and should not ever be made an issue. He shows a lot more maturity then a lot of our posters. I'm not saying I agree with everything he says all the time, but I don't always agree with everyone. Especially you! You know what it takes for the Vikings to win a S.B. well I love my Vikes, but considering they have never won a sb... how is it that you know what it will take US to win? Every team is different. I believe Daunte will take us all the way. I'm not old and I'm also a girl... want to take some cheap shots at me too?

VikemanX84
06-03-2004, 11:36 AM
We're better than that crap here chubchub. I did edit your post and took that out. You have every right to disagree with me, call me a dumbass if you want too. But we're better than teh crap you post on here.

In case you haven't noticed, most of our members here are my age or younger and plenty of them contribute a lot more stuff with a lot more substance than any post I've read of yours. There is no room for discrimination here.

Ahh, good to see bartime is back.

I've actually been very pessismistic this offseason and been accused of it a couple times on here.

You can knock me for speculating, but thats all we're doing right now anyway, no matter what. Anyone of the Packers team could have an absolutely horrible year next year regardless of what they did last year. Speculation stays true for vets as well as rookies. All this un-proven player stuff is mostly crap, every player needs to re-prove themselves every year, there is no such thing as a proven player in the NFL, IMHO.

If we can't speculate anymore then there is no reason to even betalking about this. However, I find it fun.

I'm also not a real big gambler and I don't see the Packers going below 8-8, because well, lets face it, they are lucky. So, I wouldn't mind betting $10 bucks on their reccord, you get 10-6 or above wins and up and I get 8-8 or below, 9-7 we'll call it a draw.

Well, you can knock Russel for only getting INTs all you want. He also had just as many tackles as Teddy Bruski, New England's Star MLB. And hell, I don't mind have a Safety who always seems to be within 5 yards of the ball. No matter what you say, I had a big smile on my face each the NINE times he grabs a pass.

I ahve to go work, I'll respond more later.

johnnyb22
06-03-2004, 11:39 AM
Good one triedandtrue even for a girl!!

triedandtruevikesfan
06-03-2004, 11:43 AM
hahaha... thanks!

johnnyb22
06-03-2004, 11:46 AM
Triedandtrue just giving you a hard time. A little pay back for the other post site. Have a great day!!

Vikerliker76
06-03-2004, 11:56 AM
Women, children, and Pecker fans being allowed to state their mind on football??????????????????? What's next, Bart (my pet name for Farfanuggen) backing up Daunte???? GEEZ!!!!!!!!!!

ItalianStallion
06-03-2004, 12:00 PM
No kidding I am only 18, but have played football in some form or another for 10 years. Should I stop posting because it is obvious that chubchub has more football knowledge than me. Give Vikeman a break.

Meanwhile getting back to barfly,

Our defense is improved because we have young players (E.J., Russell, Williams-squared, Hovan, Caliborne) on it who are now more experienced. These players will all be STARTING this year, replacing the older, slower player that caused our defense to underperform last year. That is why our defense has improved. Hopefully you can understand this simple concept. Unfortunately the same does not hold true for the PAckers. The only player on your defense worth mentioning. that might have actually improven in the offseason would be Barnett.

I has been said that Dontarrious Thomas has performed very well so far and has a good chance at starting at Will linebacker, not just a special teams performer.

As for Trotter and Gildon, if you had the cap room I might take you seriously. Don't forget you were also rumored to get Couch and Kerry Collins. You may still get Couch, but we actually have the ability to sign these players.

Ps: Claiborne had more tackles/start, sacks, or passes defensed than either Navies or Diggs.

As for our safeties, using the argument that they were in the "right place at the right time" in catching those INTs is like saying that a receiver is in the "right place at the right time" whenever he catches the ball. Safeties' job is to read and react to the QB and receivers, when they read properly they put themselves in a position to make a play. Both of them did that last year. That can be attributed to instinct and Film study. As for those people you mentioned, no I don't know them, but I was also born in 1985 and didn't really follow football when I was 3. You could have bragged all you wanted aobout those players in the 80s, but they don't play anymore. Then again the Packers' fans seem to thrive on the glory of the past rather than deal with the present and future.

The fact that Marcus Robinson caught 4TD passes in one game shows how good he can be. He has been anything but consistent, but can be explosive. Keep in mind he played on an offense with Anthony Wright throwing him the ball, no other receivers worth noting, and a RB that got probably 67 percent of the teams touches. That isn't the case in Minnesota.

triedandtruevikesfan
06-03-2004, 12:01 PM
I took no offense Johnny, no big deal,I knew you were playin!

UTVikfan
06-03-2004, 12:02 PM
TnT, Chub should be owner, lol,. then we got our ring. Superior? Wow, your rookies are good ours arent, lol, especially since yours are CB's, funny. Our second and third string RB's are almost as good as your first? LOL, give your 2nd and 3rd's a try this year, see what ya think. But you are right, your WR's are AWESOME, the best in the league. Ok, J/K. On another note, just like inflation and your money, if you stand pat, and keep it in the mattress, your a millionare in like 5 years, right?
Chub, you obviously know, and have been around long enough to know that QB's take time. It wasn't, well, ok, it was that long ago when Farve was bouncing passes off recievers, Elway sucked and blew every comeback, (thanks to local TV, I GET to watch all the Denver games), and Bradshaw was either benched or rolling around on the ground like a clubbed fish, only to play well on the next play.
Also Chub, I have met many, many, many old fools. Age is NOT a credential. I have also met a few brilliant young minds. I vote we ID them at the door, so we can have all the brilliant conversation we get at bars in UT....sheesh. Vikeman, NEVER let a cut like that get you down, Bill Gates was like 70 when he built Microsoft, right?

Vikerliker76
06-03-2004, 12:23 PM
Before any kills me, I was kidding (wouldn't mind Bart being our back up though, lol.) You know, one thing I haven't heard mentioned that I'm excited about is our new defensive coordinator! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe our defense has been ranked above 23 (last year) in the last 5 years. Hopefully the added speed and new scheme will be a bonus. Honestly, I see us at 11-5, carried by the NFL's returning and improved #1 offense, and making it to the NFC Championship game against the Eagles. Which bridesmaid will make it to the big dance, lol. Packers will be 10-6.

superior230bartime
06-03-2004, 12:39 PM
[quote="UTVikfan"]TnT, Chub should be owner, lol,. then we got our ring. Superior? Wow, your rookies are good ours arent, lol, especially since yours are CB's, funny. Our second and third string RB's are almost as good as your first? LOL, give your 2nd and 3rd's a try this year, see what ya think. But you are right, your WR's are AWESOME, the best in the league. Ok, J/K. On another note, just like inflation and your money, if you stand pat, and keep it in the mattress, your a millionare in like 5 years, right?


What are you talking about? Nothing you said in here was ever even said by me. I never even once mentioned the topic of Running backs but since you brought it up, both Najeh Davenpoert and Tony Fischer are every bit as good as Smith and Moe Williams. Take a look, they all averaged above 5 yards per carry last year. Your other comments leave me clueless as to what the hell you are reading too but what do I know? I am jsut an ignorant, inbred, stupid, alcoholic, trailor trash Packer fan since that is what all people from Wisconsin are. Just ask webby. He is the smartest man on Earth and knows all about this. I'm sure he is busy looking through newspaper clippings to find some obscure aticle that portrays or states something negative about WI to post on his Pro-Vikings board.

johnnyb22
06-03-2004, 01:10 PM
superior - I am glad that you have finally admitted your shortcomings. And I agree with you, Packer fans are ignorant, inbred, stupid, alcoholic, trailer trash. Thanks for coming to grips with that.
As far as you running backs are concerned you are right. I like Ahman Green, he runs smart and hard. And Najeh is a beast. Thank God your offensive coordinator has no clue what to call or how to use him. When I saw he was drafted by you guys I was mad. He can be a true force if used more.
I still think the Pack is going to have a rougher year than last year. You guys will be 9-7 or 8-8. I don't see you guys getting more than 10 wins tops. I think that you guys are going to finish behind us!!

superior230bartime
06-03-2004, 01:18 PM
"johnnyb22" wrote:

superior - I am glad that you have finally admitted your shortcomings. And I agree with you, Packer fans are ignorant, inbred, stupid, alcoholic, trailer trash. Thanks for coming to grips with that.
As far as you running backs are concerned you are right. I like Ahman Green, he runs smart and hard. And Najeh is a beast. Thank God your offensive coordinator has no clue what to call or how to use him. When I saw he was drafted by you guys I was mad. He can be a true force if used more.
I still think the Pack is going to have a rougher year than last year. You guys will be 9-7 or 8-8. I don't see you guys getting more than 10 wins tops. I think that you guys are going to finish behind us!!

I'll agree. Tom Rossley is an idiot and the packers main weakknesses are on the coaching staff not on the field. Rossley and Sherman account for about 2 losses per year with their conservatism and stupididty. That's no to say that I give any credit to Mike Tice though since he may just be the dumbest man in professional sports

Viking_Spirit
06-03-2004, 01:23 PM
"triedandtruevikesfan" wrote:

"chubchub" wrote:

The bottom line is we will never win with Culpepper. You all can say what you want- I've been following the Vikes for 35 years- I live and breath the Vikes- I know what it takes to win a super bowl and we don't have it at Q.B. Mark my words. (Vikeman- I found out recently that you are still in high school- No disrespect but you have no place in this forum- you're a child who knows nothing about how this game should really be played)

No disrespect? I think that showed a lot of disrespect! The fact that he is in high school is not and should not ever be made an issue.
I can't belive it is an issue. This gets to me because I'm also in High School, and I see nothing wrong with posting on here.

Is this becoming ANOTHER Daunte or not argument? I thought those were done awhile ago..................

Here's my perdictions:
Vikes 12-4
Packers 9-7
Lions 8-8
Bears 7-9

Competition in our division will be better across the board than it has ever been. The Lions have a very young team, and they had a great draft. Look for them to be a power in a couple years. The Bears are steadily improving, and should be good in a few years under Lovie Smith. The Packers will be good because they are returning most of their team, and have a top echlon QB and RB. And, the Vikes will perform well as long as they don't blow it again this year like they did last year.

triedandtruevikesfan
06-03-2004, 02:06 PM
ENOUGH!!!! omg I'm sick of this crap! heated debates are great... I love them myself, but this name calling crap needs to end!!! I'm going to edit both comments there because its uncalled for... keep it decent guys!

LosAngelis
06-03-2004, 03:16 PM
I'm waiting for someone to yell "Nah-nee-nah-nee-boo-boo!" soon.

purplehorn
06-03-2004, 03:57 PM
"triedandtruevikesfan" wrote:

ENOUGH!!!! omg I'm sick of this crap! heated debates are great... I love them myself, but this name calling crap needs to end!!! I'm going to edit both comments there because its uncalled for... keep it decent guys!

So what are you trying to say??

triedandtruevikesfan
06-03-2004, 03:59 PM
I'm just saying that the last couple of messages between you and randymoss were inappropriate. I don't care who started what, but if you guys need to take little jabs at each other, how about you do it in private messages. I deleted both of the comments. The site isn't intended for kindergarten children to read, but what I read on both sides was uncalled for. If you think I'm wrong you can take it up with Webby.

purplehorn
06-03-2004, 04:12 PM
I was joking ya there TNT.

triedandtruevikesfan
06-03-2004, 04:17 PM
oh... hehe... ok sorry... just getting frustrated...

purplehorn
06-03-2004, 04:23 PM
Its ok friday's just a day away. :)

triedandtruevikesfan
06-03-2004, 04:28 PM
thank god for small favors... and I took a half day on top of that! I will get to go out and enjoy the beautiful day tomorrow!

RandyMoss8404
06-03-2004, 06:14 PM
:lol:

Webby
06-03-2004, 06:56 PM
man o man, I think this is done.