PDA

View Full Version : Thoughts while rewatching the Browns game.



Turboe
11-30-2005, 06:57 AM
Rewatching the game on TiVo tonight. I love to watch it again, because I see things I didnt see the first time, and see things I saw the first time, but forgot about because of the heat of the moment on game day and the drama of the next play.

Here are a few things that I have noticed in watching the first half again tonight:

The deflected INT that Winfield made in the 2nd quarter was thrown well to Braylon Edwards. It was an easily catchable ball hit him right in the hands, but went right through them and floated right to AW. I also recall him dropping a couple of other balls you should catch during the game. Man this is the guy that lots of people thought we should package both of our 1st rounders last year to move up to pick this guy. Everyone that is getting down of Troy right now needs to just step back and chill a little bit. Anyone on here want to trade Troy and Erasmus for either Braylon or Mike Williams right now. You gotta be kidding me. I am very pleased with our two first rounders.

The deflected INT that was thrown at Koren and picked off by the Browns DB in the 2nd quarter I think might have hit the ground and not been a pick. It was close considering the announcers didnt even mention anything. We barely got to see any replay of it because they went to commercial break and when they came back they went right to the next play. Minn never challenged it, but it didnt matter because we forced the fumble on the next play and got the ball back probably quicker than we would of had we waited for the challenge to be decided.

Our DBs have been really laying some hits on opposing WRs and backs, I love the swaggar that we are starting to develop back there. I am looking forward to getting Smoots coverage skills back in the lineup, but I hope he doesnt dilute/alter that hitters mentality we have been exhibiting out there on the field.

More thoughts as they come to me as I watch....

ps Having said that Braylon made a good hard fought run for a couple extra yards after the catch on the first series of the 2nd half even as I type.

cajunvike
11-30-2005, 07:00 AM
I heard that our defense has moved up to 15th overall just in the last 4 weeks! Go D!!!

thepacksux
11-30-2005, 07:06 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:

I heard that our defense has moved up to 15th overall just in the last 4 weeks! Go D!!!

i think that was our run defense... either way we are starting to see a little of what we expected earlier in the year. I just wish we had a healthy udeze and offord making some big hits too

Turboe
11-30-2005, 03:26 PM
....More

On the sack on BJ late in the 3rd Qt, Mewelde just got blown up by Orpheas (?sp) Roye trying to pick him up with a block. MeMo just bouncedd off him like a little bug and Roye sacked BJ. I am sure when the team is breaking down film, this isnt going to endear MeMo anymore to Tice. He hates that lack of blocking skills thing.

Lets hope this doesnt land MeMo in Tice's doghouse again....

Del Rio
11-30-2005, 03:28 PM
He's not a good blocker. Tice knows it he's called him on it before.
As long as he holds onto the ball and gives it all he has I doubt he will get in trouble.

V4L
11-30-2005, 03:32 PM
Nice breakdown Turbz.. I wish I could do that.. Yah MM should be fine.. He is known as a liability in pass blocking

Schleppy
11-30-2005, 03:38 PM
We have actually drop a spot on the defensive rankings. Before the win streak, our D was 27th and now we are 28th. Its the turnovers that has helped our d and run defense with big Pat.....

Turboe
11-30-2005, 03:40 PM
...Brian Russel had a nice game for the Browns. Strange to see him in something other than purple.

I like the little video snippets they did with Brad Johnson talking about keys for the Vikes offense while the lineups were shown, and Brian Russel talking about keys for the Browns D while their lineup was shown.

V4L
11-30-2005, 03:41 PM
No way.. We are at 28th? We haven't been giving up that many yards.. Dilfer only had like 200 and Favre didn't have that much either.. I'll take your word on it though man

JDogg926
11-30-2005, 04:13 PM
The main reason our ranking is so low is because we had 4 games at the beginning of the year that were just flat out terrible. Even if we rank #1 for the last five weeks, we still may not break the top 10.

Turboe
11-30-2005, 04:23 PM
Near the end of the game AW came flying in to deliver a hit on Browns FB Terrell Smith on a swing pass. And AW ended up getting the worse end of the deal when he pulled up out of his dive and took the full brunt of Smith's significant girth.

Two things jumped out at me on that play. One is how quickly AW was able to realize that the ball was deflected up in the air off Smith's hands and he was able to adjust his body position straightening up out of a dive to try to intercept the ball. How fast does the human mind work that he was going to lay the wood to this guy and in a split second he realizes that the ball is up in the air, the brain weights the relative importance of hitting this guy hard vs possibly making the INT, and makes the decision the INT would be better and changes the course of the body all in a millisecond. Amazing. The downside to it was that he didnt get the INT and came up quite woozy for his first several steps (or should I say stumbles). But just an amazing play when you realize what all went on in his mind.

And other thing that stood out to me is how much difference there is between the one delivering the hit and the person hit. AW was going to lay a significant hit on Smith, and just a split second change in the angle of his body standing up out of his dive went from him punishing Smith to him taking all the force of the collision and darn near hurting himself.

Amazing...

Del Rio
11-30-2005, 05:11 PM
I bet that while his mind is working fast it is just automatic. A feel for the ball a feel for the game and making instinctual reactions to plays.

The thinking seems to happen right before the ball is snapped.

Turboe
11-30-2005, 05:14 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

I bet that while his mind is working fast it is just automatic. A feel for the ball a feel for the game and making instinctual reactions to plays.

The thinking seems to happen right before the ball is snapped.

I am sure you are right about that. Having never played that position it is just something I am foreign to. When I was playing Hoops in college I know things just happened without thinking about them (consiously anyway) but I still marvel at how much information the brain is processing instantaneously on a play like that even though AW doesnt have to do consious thought.

Del Rio
11-30-2005, 05:22 PM
I agree it is pretty amazing.

I enjoyed the observation. It's something not discussed much here, and if you can find something like that it is refreshing.

DEEP PURPLE
11-30-2005, 05:23 PM
Current defensive rankings:

Total Yards Per Game
28th - 338.2 (Vikings)
1st - 254.2 (Bears)

Passing Yards Per Game
25th - 225.1 (Vikings)
1st - 161.5 (Bears)

Rushing Yards per Game
15th - 113.1 (Vikings)
1st - 79.1 (Broncos)

Scoring Defense
24th - 23.4 (Vikings)
1st - 10.9 (Bears)

Total Takaways
5th - 25 (17 Ints & 8 Fumbles) Vikings
1st - 33 (23 Ints & 10 Fumbles) Bengals

Interesting Stat
Opp. 3rd Down Percentage
29th - 42.2 (62/147) Vikings
1st - 28.1 (47/167) Bears

IMO, that is a very telling stat, and thats telling us we have a problem getting our defense off the field. More statistical information to come!!!

Del Rio
11-30-2005, 05:47 PM
The last 4 games

Browns Total Yardage: 262 passing:184 rushing:78

GreenBay Total Yardage: 236 passing:215 rushing:21

Giants Total Yardage: 405 passing:281 rushing:124

Lions Total Yardage: 289 passing:231 rushing:58

DEEP PURPLE
11-30-2005, 05:52 PM
D-Stats during 4 game winning streak

Total Yards Per Game = 298 (40.2 below season average)
Passing Yards Per Game = 227.8 (2.7 above season average)
Rushing Yards Per Game = 70.3 ( 43.8 below season average)
Scoring Defense = 16 PPG (7.4 below season average)
Takeaways = 15 (3.75 per game) WOW!!!!
Opp. 3rd Down Percentage = 38% 19/50 (4.2% below season average)

So just by the numbers or rushing defense has really stepped up and our passing defense is basically the same. Which actually surprised me because it seems like we are getting more pressure on the QB as of late, and usually that goes hand in hand with a good pass defense. Overall getting better, but the Opp. 3rd down percentage is still pretty high, but since we are forcing so many turnovers it hasn't been hurting us so bad. Not quite the lockem down, you ain't gett'in $hit defense we hoped for before the season but its improving as the season goes on.

Mr. Purple
11-30-2005, 06:06 PM
we're terrible on stopping 3rd downs. Its one thing that really ticks me off when I watch the game. They need to work on that.

mnvikes61
11-30-2005, 06:16 PM
"DEEP PURPLE" wrote:

D-Stats during 4 game winning streak

Total Yards Per Game = 298 (40.2 below season average)
Passing Yards Per Game = 227.8 (2.7 above season average)
Rushing Yards Per Game = 70.3 ( 43.8 below season average)
Scoring Defense = 16 PPG (7.4 below season average)
Takeaways = 15 (3.75 per game) WOW!!!!
Opp. 3rd Down Percentage = 38% 19/50 (4.2% below season average)

So just by the numbers or rushing defense has really stepped up and our passing defense is basically the same. Which actually surprised me because it seems like we are getting more pressure on the QB as of late, and usually that goes hand in hand with a good pass defense. Overall getting better, but the Opp. 3rd down percentage is still pretty high, but since we are forcing so many turnovers it hasn't been hurting us so bad. Not quite the lockem down, you ain't gett'in $hit defense we hoped for before the season but its improving as the season goes on.
thanks for posting that. i'm glad to see we're getting better

DCPologirl
11-30-2005, 06:34 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:

I heard that our defense has moved up to 15th overall just in the last 4 weeks! Go D!!!


wow fabulous!!!!!!!!!!!!!

midgensa
11-30-2005, 07:08 PM
The total defense is still at 28th in yards per game allowed actually ... but the rushing defense is up to 15th ... and they have been one of the top five defenses over the last four weeks.

DCPologirl
11-30-2005, 07:18 PM
"midgensa" wrote:

The total defense is still at 28th in yards per game allowed actually ... but the rushing defense is up to 15th ... and they have been one of the top five defenses over the last four weeks.

There goes midgensa keeping us all grounded lol

KY Vike
11-30-2005, 11:48 PM
the passing defense ranking went down and the rushing defense ranking went up because for 1. pat williams is a f'ing beast and 2. we have been leading the games the past 4 weeks so the teams ditch the run after the first half and go almost completely to the pass.

This tells us our pass defense has gotten much better too because in the first 5 games we were getting blown out very quickly so teams stayed with the run the whole game, meaning they passed much less than they do now, but our yards passing per game have stayed the same = better pass d.

jimmymac
12-01-2005, 12:10 AM
Maybe someone that has a tape of the game can shed some light on this...

I'm going from memory, at the very end of the first half, the Browns had a false start penelty. The ref then said to put 12 seconds on the clock but that there would be a 10 second runoff for offensive foul. But the 10 seconds were never run off the game clock. The Browns then made another false start, no runoff, took 2 shots at a touchdown before kicking a field goal.

What happened? 2 free plays?

LuckyVike
12-01-2005, 12:20 AM
"KY Vike" wrote:

the passing defense ranking went down and the rushing defense ranking went up because for 1. pat williams is a f'ing beast and 2. we have been leading the games the past 4 weeks so the teams ditch the run after the first half and go almost completely to the pass.

This tells us our pass defense has gotten much better too because in the first 5 games we were getting blown out very quickly so teams stayed with the run the whole game, meaning they passed much less than they do now, but our yards passing per game have stayed the same = better pass d.

Putting everything in perspective, that's a Kentucky boy for ya.

midgensa
12-01-2005, 12:41 AM
The biggest stat difference is definitely in the turnovers and the rushing slam ... by doing that we have forced a lot of passing, and that has also kept that stat from plumetting, though we are defending against the pass very well.

Wiggles67
12-01-2005, 12:52 AM
"DEEP PURPLE" wrote:

Current defensive rankings:

Total Yards Per Game
28th - 338.2 (Vikings)
1st - 254.2 (Bears)

Passing Yards Per Game
25th - 225.1 (Vikings)
1st - 161.5 (Bears)

Rushing Yards per Game
15th - 113.1 (Vikings)
1st - 79.1 (Broncos)

Scoring Defense
24th - 23.4 (Vikings)
1st - 10.9 (Bears)

Total Takaways
5th - 25 (17 Ints & 8 Fumbles) Vikings
1st - 33 (23 Ints & 10 Fumbles) Bengals

Interesting Stat
Opp. 3rd Down Percentage
29th - 42.2 (62/147) Vikings
1st - 28.1 (47/167) Bears

IMO, that is a very telling stat, and thats telling us we have a problem getting our defense off the field. More statistical information to come!!!
very interesting stats and thanks for the info! if you get really bored I'd like to know where we would stand if we take out the first couple games of the season :grin:

Potus2028
12-01-2005, 12:55 AM
The false start thing..
That 10 seconds isn't taken off if time outs are used.. They used time outs after the false starts.

cajunvike
12-01-2005, 12:57 AM
"DCPologirl" wrote:

"midgensa" wrote:

The total defense is still at 28th in yards per game allowed actually ... but the rushing defense is up to 15th ... and they have been one of the top five defenses over the last four weeks.

There goes midgensa keeping us all grounded lol

Actually, there is this quote from the rankings on FOX Sports:

"Over the past four weeks, only Chicago has been a better defense, and the Vikings have climbed all the way up to 15th."

I LIKE THAT!!!

NordicNed
12-01-2005, 01:02 AM
I'de have to say, I'de be willing to take on any team in the NFC at this point today...

Yes, even the Bears......We have that something speical going on, and I think we are on a sweet little role..

Please God, let it continue.....

jimmymac
12-01-2005, 01:04 AM
"Potus2028" wrote:

The false start thing..
That 10 seconds isn't taken off if time outs are used.. They used time outs after the false starts.

Thanks, I thought it was another case of the Vikings getting screwed by the officials. :wink:

midgensa
12-01-2005, 01:32 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:

"DCPologirl" wrote:

"midgensa" wrote:

The total defense is still at 28th in yards per game allowed actually ... but the rushing defense is up to 15th ... and they have been one of the top five defenses over the last four weeks.

There goes midgensa keeping us all grounded lol

Actually, there is this quote from the rankings on FOX Sports:

"Over the past four weeks, only Chicago has been a better defense, and the Vikings have climbed all the way up to 15th."

I LIKE THAT!!!

Yeah but that quote comes from the whackos that use their goofy system to rank the teams. Remember ... the same system we have been blasting for weeks!!!
By the stat that they use to determine No. 1 defense (Total YPG) we are 28th ... the FoxSports BCS loving computer geeks use some weird concotion taking into account YDS, PTS Allowed, TOvers, Def. TDs, and they also count recent games more than previous games ...
Overall though, I like whatever they are doing because I feel like we are a top-half defense right now, but by the actual stat we have a ways to go.
It is hard to climb this late in the season ... to move all the way to 20th THIS WEEK we would have to hold the Lions to 150 Yards and these teams would have to give up this many: Browns (296), Bengals (295), Chiefs (264), Cardinals (262), Giants (250), Eagles (249), Hawks (232), Raiders (227) ... and that is if we ONLY give up 150 ... so it is tough to climb though not impossible the way they are playing ... just for fun, if we gave up 0 yards, the Bears would need to give up 924 for us to catch them!

Potus2028
12-01-2005, 01:44 AM
"midgensa" wrote:

"cajunvike" wrote:

"DCPologirl" wrote:

"midgensa" wrote:

The total defense is still at 28th in yards per game allowed actually ... but the rushing defense is up to 15th ... and they have been one of the top five defenses over the last four weeks.

There goes midgensa keeping us all grounded lol

Actually, there is this quote from the rankings on FOX Sports

"Over the past four weeks, only Chicago has been a better defense, and the Vikings have climbed all the way up to 15th."

I LIKE THAT!!!

Yeah but that quote comes from the whackos that use their goofy system to rank the teams. Remember ... the same system we have been blasting for weeks!!!
By the stat that they use to determine No. 1 defense (Total YPG) we are 28th ... the FoxSports BCS loving computer geeks use some weird concotion taking into account YDS, PTS Allowed, TOvers, Def. TDs, and they also count recent games more than previous games ...
Overall though, I like whatever they are doing because I feel like we are a top-half defense right now, but by the actual stat we have a ways to go.
It is hard to climb this late in the season ... to move all the way to 20th THIS WEEK we would have to hold the Lions to 150 Yards and these teams would have to give up this many Browns (296), Bengals (295), Chiefs (264), Cardinals (262), Giants (250), Eagles (249), Hawks (232), Raiders (227) ... and that is if we ONLY give up 150 ... so it is tough to climb though not impossible the way they are playing ... just for fun, if we gave up 0 yards, the Bears would need to give up 924 for us to catch them!Wow.. I'm not even going to think on how you got those numbers!!!

And yea, it took me a couple of tivo rewinds to figure out what was going on about the false starts.

Turboe
12-01-2005, 01:46 AM
"jimmymac" wrote:

Maybe someone that has a tape of the game can shed some light on this...

I'm going from memory, at the very end of the first half, the Browns had a false start penelty. The ref then said to put 12 seconds on the clock but that there would be a 10 second runoff for offensive foul. But the 10 seconds were never run off the game clock. The Browns then made another false start, no runoff, took 2 shots at a touchdown before kicking a field goal.

What happened? 2 free plays?

The 10 second run off thing is within the last 2 minutes of halves to keep a team from just running up to the line and snap it regardless of if they are all set and stopping the clock. Obviously the loss of 10 seconds is extra motivation.

As someone mentioned the Browns took a time out after the first false start, and the rule states if the team takes a time out that 10 second additional penalty is waived. I was a little foggy why on the second one they were not penalized the 10 seconds since they did not use a timeout on that occasion. I believe it is because the penalty occured in a situation where the clock was already stopped because of the previous timeout, so I think the 10 second run off of the clock only applies in situations where the clock is ticking.

Turboe
12-01-2005, 06:05 AM
Just finishing up watching the post game coverage on TiVo Direct TV. I hadnt watched this on Sunday, I dont know if this is the same post game coverage that you get on network TV locally or not, but they went into the Vikes locker room for Tice handing out game balls.

A couple observations.

First I saw Wilf hanging out in the background soaking up the ceremony.

Second Pat Williams is big when his pads are off as well.

A question to anyone who has seen this locker room talk before do they always sing that song to the game ball reciepient?

Tice gave the game ball to the Whole D Line + Newman he included in there with them. So then he says "Ready, here we go!".....

....And all the players break out in a sing along song that went something like this.....

"Hooray for D-Line, Hooray at last!!!!
Horay for D-Line your a horses A**!!!!!!!!"

Only the network faded out and back to the studio right on the last word.

Also I about peed my pants when I heard Shannon Sharpe doing the highlight package. Shannon talks like he has a mouth full of marbles sometimes anyway, then he tried to be cute and he was calling Marcus Robinson in every highlight Marcus "Coo Ka Choo" Robinson. Then he just started calling him "Coo Ka Choo" and then the last time on the last TD I think he called him "Ooo Coo Ka Choo". I know Shannon has trouble talking simple words, but trust me you have to hear him trying to say that.

Apparently Shannon never heard the Beatles or listened to Chris Berman very closely.

Coo Coo Ka Choo!

Potus2028
12-01-2005, 06:18 AM
You're right about the clock already being stopped for teh second false start turboe.

snowinapril
12-01-2005, 06:32 AM
"Turboe" wrote:


A question to anyone who has seen this locker room talk before do they always sing that song to the game ball reciepient?


"Hooray for D-Line, Hooray at last!!!!
Horay for D-Line your a horses A**!!!!!!!!"



I saw this before when they sung it to Red.

It was a couple of years ago.

Turboe
12-01-2005, 02:18 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

"Turboe" wrote:


A question to anyone who has seen this locker room talk before do they always sing that song to the game ball reciepient?


"Hooray for D-Line, Hooray at last!!!!
Horay for D-Line your a horses A**!!!!!!!!"



I saw this before when they sung it to Red.

It was a couple of years ago.

However in Red's case they may not have all been laughing as they were on Sunday as they sang it.

singersp
12-01-2005, 03:18 PM
"cajunvike" wrote:

I heard that our defense has moved up to 15th overall just in the last 4 weeks! Go D!!!

We are still ranked 28th in total defense.

JDogg926
12-01-2005, 04:32 PM
The 15th ranking is based on some whacked out formula that foxsports uses for it's power rankings. The same rankings that, as of last week, had the Broncos at #1 over the Colts, and the Browns ahead of us. So, I wouldn't put too much stock in that.

DEEP PURPLE
12-01-2005, 04:34 PM
"Wiggles67" wrote:

very interesting stats and thanks for the info! if you get really bored I'd like to know where we would stand if we take out the first couple games of the season :grin:

I don't have time today or tomorrow but I'll see if I can do something like that this weekend.

JDogg926
12-01-2005, 04:35 PM
"Turboe" wrote:

Just finishing up watching the post game coverage on TiVo Direct TV. I hadnt watched this on Sunday, I dont know if this is the same post game coverage that you get on network TV locally or not, but they went into the Vikes locker room for Tice handing out game balls.

A couple observations.

First I saw Wilf hanging out in the background soaking up the ceremony.

Second Pat Williams is big when his pads are off as well.

A question to anyone who has seen this locker room talk before do they always sing that song to the game ball reciepient?

Tice gave the game ball to the Whole D Line + Newman he included in there with them. So then he says "Ready, here we go!".....

....And all the players break out in a sing along song that went something like this.....

"Hooray for D-Line, Hooray at last!!!!
Horay for D-Line your a horses A**!!!!!!!!"

Only the network faded out and back to the studio right on the last word.

Also I about peed my pants when I heard Shannon Sharpe doing the highlight package. Shannon talks like he has a mouth full of marbles sometimes anyway, then he tried to be cute and he was calling Marcus Robinson in every highlight Marcus "Coo Ka Choo" Robinson. Then he just started calling him "Coo Ka Choo" and then the last time on the last TD I think he called him "Ooo Coo Ka Choo". I know Shannon has trouble talking simple words, but trust me you have to hear him trying to say that.

Apparently Shannon never heard the Beatles or listened to Chris Berman very closely.

Coo Coo Ka Choo!

I know what you mean about Sharpe, the guy was a great football player, but they should only let players that can speak be TV analysts. I get extremely annoyed listening to him. He should take speech classes.

Turboe
12-01-2005, 05:20 PM
"JDogg926" wrote:

I know what you mean about Sharpe, the guy was a great football player, but they should only let players that can speak be TV analysts. I get extremely annoyed listening to him. He should take speech classes.

Oh my god!! You got to watch the new Bang Cartoon if you havent already, it ends up with a segment with Shannon Sharpe talking about science and the solar system. I just about peed my pants laughing again. It is hilarious.

http://www.bangcartoon.com/shorts.htm

Check it out....

zimtwister
12-01-2005, 09:19 PM
"Turboe" wrote:

Near the end of the game AW came flying in to deliver a hit on Browns FB Terrell Smith on a swing pass. And AW ended up getting the worse end of the deal when he pulled up out of his dive and took the full brunt of Smith's significant girth.

Two things jumped out at me on that play. One is how quickly AW was able to realize that the ball was deflected up in the air off Smith's hands and he was able to adjust his body position straightening up out of a dive to try to intercept the ball. How fast does the human mind work that he was going to lay the wood to this guy and in a split second he realizes that the ball is up in the air, the brain weights the relative importance of hitting this guy hard vs possibly making the INT, and makes the decision the INT would be better and changes the course of the body all in a millisecond. Amazing. The downside to it was that he didnt get the INT and came up quite woozy for his first several steps (or should I say stumbles). But just an amazing play when you realize what all went on in his mind.

And other thing that stood out to me is how much difference there is between the one delivering the hit and the person hit. AW was going to lay a significant hit on Smith, and just a split second change in the angle of his body standing up out of his dive went from him punishing Smith to him taking all the force of the collision and darn near hurting himself.

Amazing...thats AW! my favorite.

VikingsTw
12-02-2005, 01:58 AM
"singersp" wrote:

"cajunvike" wrote:

I heard that our defense has moved up to 15th overall just in the last 4 weeks! Go D!!!

We are still ranked 28th in total defense.

Who cares about what we are ranked for the year as a whole, we all know we had a horrible start. But the fact is we are playing #2 defense right now, and thats great news because i expected it from the beginning of the season. The team is gelling, cotrell has his head out of his arse and we're on a roll so i'm going into games confident that we can stop offenses.

VKG4LFE
12-02-2005, 04:09 AM
Great analysis of the game turboe. I go back and watch every game but I guess I don't look that in depth at it. I also thought that pick off Robinson's hands hit the ground at the time. The thing that sucks about this year is the vikes are getting the worst play calling crews. So they don't even notice things like that in the game and never mention them. I know most of us hate madden (I happen to like him, he was born in Minnesota ya know!) but he does a good job at pointing things out and questioning calls, even though his head is up Favre's patootie!