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Muggsy
10-18-2005, 07:22 PM
I wish Tice would do this, just to experiment if nothing else. At least it would tell us if the main problem is Culpepper or not.
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Johnson might light fire under Vikings

by Bob Sansevere

Daunte Culpepper should be benched. Just for a game. Just to see if Brad Johnson can get anything more out of the Vikings' offense.

If Johnson turns out to be as ineffective as Culpepper, go back to Culpepper. But if he leads the Vikings to a victory, well, then maybe Culpepper should be benched for another game. And another after that if the offense continues to respond to Johnson.

It wouldn't be the first time Johnson has come off the bench to rescue the Vikings. He did it in 1996, replacing Warren Moon and guiding the team to the playoffs.

But Vikings coach Mike Tice doesn't seem interested in switching to Johnson despite Culpepper's miserable statistics and the team's 1-4 record.

I asked Tice on Monday if he would consider sitting Culpepper, and he replied, "I thought he played a great first half (against Chicago)."

Great? The Vikings trailed 7-3 at halftime.

"I thought he played a very good third quarter," Tice said.

Very good? Culpepper threw an interception on the Vikings' second drive of the third quarter, setting up a Bears touchdown. And three of the four drives in the quarter didn't last more than three downs.

Tice didn't praise Culpepper's fourth-quarter play, which included another interception. "He, as many of the guys, started pressing a little," Tice said. "His head was in the game. … If his decisions weren't good, that'd be a whole different story."

The only story that matters revolves around this: The Vikings must go 7-4 just to finish .500.

VKG4LFE
10-18-2005, 07:29 PM
I don't know if Brad Johnson is going to be the answer. If Daunte is getting sacked 5 times a game, how many times are they going to get to Brad Johnson??

Del Rio
10-18-2005, 07:30 PM
I have heard the arguments for not starting Brad Johnson. With our O-line he would get killed, he's not mobile, he's old........the list goes on.


He's there for a reason. If Culpepper cannot get it done he needs to play. He won't have to scramble if he can hit a WR in 7 seconds. Which I am pretty sure he can.

There is no harm in letting him play. None at all. The only thing keeping him from giving it a shot are ego's. I wouldn't bench Culpepper at the first of the game though. I would let him play until he has a breakdown.

Last game against the Bears does not convince me that he needed to be benched. I really hate when a WR tips a ball and it gets intercepted. Obviously Tice has faith in Culpepper, he knows what the progressions are for the passing plays he will be the judge.

I see Johnson as an option, but only if Culpepper goes back to his week one form or worse. He needs to work through this the hard way. I think he took a few steps in the right direction against the Bears, until he goes backwards I say start him even if he is crawling at a snails pace.

VKG4LFE
10-18-2005, 07:33 PM
Culpepper will play great against the pack (just like all three games last year) only this time we will win!!

mnvikes61
10-18-2005, 07:33 PM
i don't know if i want Pepper benched this game against the pack, in this games records don't matter it's all a matter of pride every year when these two teams match up. i'm not against the idea of benching Pep if he begins to struggle and just see if it's Pep or if it's the offensive scheme. if Johnson came in there and started hitting the receivers that were open i'd be for the move

Jviking
10-18-2005, 07:37 PM
You guys are right, did sansevere mention the fact that the penalties killed a number of our drives? Or is that culpepper too? Johnson, whoam I like, is a good back up. IMO We don't need to bench our quarterback at this point.

StillPurple
10-18-2005, 07:37 PM
Noooooooo !

Culpepper was not the problem last Sunday !! It was the offensive line penalties and the fact that the Bears have the nr. 1 defense in the NFL. Does it not occur to some people that maybe the Vikings are not that bad, and maybe the Bengals, Bucs, and Bears defenses are that good ? I personally think it is an insult to the NFL and the Bears to say, "how could this happen", when the Bears have the best defense in football. Great defenses stuff any great offense, too.

Culpepper I see getting better. He looks much better now than in the Bengals game. The QB always gets the blame. We need to turn our attention to receivers running bad routes, not coming back to help the QB when he is in trouble, etc. Stop saying it is all on C-pepper, it isn't. The line has to block better without drawing penalties.

mnjamie
10-18-2005, 07:39 PM
CPep would have to throw like 6 int's and no completions before Tice would sit him. Don't forget about the little contract extension that CPep got this summer?? Tice is treating this the same way he did with Bennett ... honestly, I have been trying to keep the faith for Tice but he really has to go. Fine, let him play out the season.

By the way, I'm interested to see if anybody saw anything different from our offense since the "Advisors" came in when we played this last week. It really looked like the same play calling. Their was no misdirection, screens, or for that matter not alot of play action? Did anyone see something I missed??

mnjamie
10-18-2005, 07:43 PM
"StillPurple" wrote:

Noooooooo !

Culpepper was not the problem last Sunday !! It was the offensive line penalties and the fact that the Bears have the nr. 1 defense in the NFL. Does it not occur to some people that maybe the Vikings are not that bad, and maybe the Bengals, Bucs, and Bears defenses are that good ? I personally think it is an insult to the NFL and the Bears to say, "how could this happen", when the Bears have the best defense in football. Great defenses stuff any great offense, too.

Culpepper I see getting better. He looks much better now than in the Bengals game. The QB always gets the blame. We need to turn our attention to receivers running bad routes, not coming back to help the QB when he is in trouble, etc. Stop saying it is all on C-pepper, it isn't. The line has to block better without drawing penalties.


a) You are incorrect, the Bears are not the #1 defense.

b) He deserves all the blame, he is not seeing his #2 and/or #3 targets fast enough and is throwing the ball late. Causing int's and incomplete passes. CPep also on certain plays focusing solely on and individual WR or RB out of the back field. The O-Line penalties dont help, but Pep is by noway not at fault here, take another peek at the game tape, Pep was late on his throws all day long.

Mr. Purple
10-18-2005, 07:47 PM
why does everyone think culpepper had sucha bad game against chicago? He didnt, he came out playing sharp and effective, but just like every game, penalties and poor execution led to another loss. I think he played fine. If culpepper cant survive behind our line why could brad johnson? Brad Johnson would be a sitting duck and prolley break a the all time sack record in one game.

Del Rio
10-18-2005, 07:47 PM
"mnjamie" wrote:

CPep would have to throw like 6 int's and no completions before Tice would sit him. Don't forget about the little contract extension that CPep got this summer?? Tice is treating this the same way he did with Bennett ... honestly, I have been trying to keep the faith for Tice but he really has to go. Fine, let him play out the season.

By the way, I'm interested to see if anybody saw anything different from our offense since the "Advisors" came in when we played this last week. It really looked like the same play calling. Their was no misdirection, screens, or for that matter not alot of play action? Did anyone see something I missed??

I noticed that we attempted to run the ball on a more consistent basis. I didn't notice ANY delay of game penalties. I noticed that we even attempted a run on 3rd and 10. We had a few series where we ran on 1st 2nd and 3rd down.

The offense opperated fairly effective in the first half as far as consistency and yards go. The bears made great adjustments at half time and it certainly showed.

I think the advisor made a difference. That's just me.

RK.
10-18-2005, 07:53 PM
The bottom line is Pep has only scored one TD in the last two games. I don't see how anyone can think he is getting better. Why because he reduced his turnovers from 5 to 2?

Vikes
10-18-2005, 08:00 PM
Okay that is why he writes for the newspaper and does not play or coach.

SharperVikings
10-18-2005, 08:12 PM
Just a reminder, Brad Johnson is NOT a mobile quarterback. Any why the hell would you bench culpepper against the packers? All of my friends that are packer fans think that culpepper will just destroy this secondary. By the way, you need to see, culpepper had a decent game until the 4th quarter, when he threw his first INT and was starting to press! Brad is NOT THE ANSWER!

JLDII
10-18-2005, 08:18 PM
I think Rhome had some good effect on Daunte. The quick 3 step drop and release worked pretty good. Well enough that I really hope they stay away from the shot gun formation. Seems like that is when Daunte gets sacked the most. Keeping him under center also makes the defense think run alot more than if he's back in the shot gun, so the D line can't pin their ears back and come as hard on the snap. They have to check the run before they can rush, which should also help with the false starts and holding calls too.

One thing I've noticed this year that is different than the last few years, offensively............We aren't running reverses (end arounds) anymore, and not nearly as many draws.

Now if we could just find a way to hit the quick slant across the middle when the defense is coming hard with the blitz we might have something to go with. Then all we need to do is figure out how to stretch the field again.

As for putting Brad Johnson in, NO WAY. He would get killed. The Vikings already have had one wrongfull death lawsuit against them, they don't need another!

C-PepNSalt
10-18-2005, 08:24 PM
Daunte is a packer killer, he's always been one. He needs to get back into the swing of things, i just hope it's not too late. He's probably not feeling very safe throwing down the field, I only saw a few plays where he threw down field, almost the entire game he just threw the check down...which in a lot of cases won't get you anywhere on 3rd and 10...that's just me.

Del Rio
10-18-2005, 09:10 PM
"RK" wrote:

The bottom line is Pep has only scored one TD in the last two games. I don't see how anyone can think he is getting better. Why because he reduced his turnovers from 5 to 2?

Yeah that would be one improvement.

Ltrey33
10-18-2005, 09:47 PM
C-Pep is our guy and I think he should stay in there until he works through this. If the Vikes decide to sit him, I'll support the decision because that is what they think is best, but I don't want to see Culpepper sit. The only way I would be calling for Pep to sit, is in the 3rd or 4th quarter of a game where he's playing terribly (a la Cincinnatti) then I think it might do him some good to sit on the bench for a while.

Gift
10-18-2005, 09:49 PM
Why are some people so afraid of trying Johnson, It can't hurt anymore. When your getting blown out every game (cept against the homeless) whats really the worst that can happen. It's a good idea to bench him & see what johnson can do. If nothing improves under Johnson put c-pep back in but at this point it can't really hurt.

snowinapril
10-18-2005, 10:14 PM
Bob is a hack.

Bob if you are reading this right now, looking for your next topic for the paper, your next topic is "I (you, bob, are) AM A HACK". Write that story you goofball. If you were going to right the bench DC story, you should have done it 3 weeks ago instead of waiting until he has played a few better games. His stock is rising

DC will get it together this game.

Faith VF, Faith!!

VKG4LFE
10-18-2005, 10:16 PM
"CulpepernSalt" wrote:

Daunte is a packer killer, he's always been one. He needs to get back into the swing of things, i just hope it's not too late. He's probably not feeling very safe throwing down the field, I only saw a few plays where he threw down field, almost the entire game he just threw the check down...which in a lot of cases won't get you anywhere on 3rd and 10...that's just me.


That's what makes me excited about this Sunday!! He'll definitely have his A game, I hope the rest of the team does as well!! Is Burleson back for sure, does anyone know yet??

gregair13
10-18-2005, 10:31 PM
we have to trust culpepper. he is the face of the franchise. and there is no way you go from MVP to the bench that fast. i would give him one more week. no win against the packers, bring in johnson.

magicci
10-19-2005, 02:01 AM
donr bench him!!!!!!!!

StillPurple
10-19-2005, 02:02 AM
I agree with the guy who said that C-pepper is doing better now that he is doing a 3-step drop at the line. To me, about 90 % of of the Vikings offensive issues could be solved if they just ran slants and got the ball upfield faster. It seems like there are only two kinds of plays being run: a. a standard off-tackle run, and b. an intermediate route. I think we need to mix it up more. Throw very short routes, slants, etc. Throw to a guy like Williamson on the line and let him "jet" (the way we used to with Moss). Run QB draws more. Run a post pattern on 1st and 10 and whenever they put 7+ in the box. That kind of thing. I don't see us testing the defense. I see a lot of 5-step drops and shotgun and intermediate routes that are too easy to take away with a zone defense. I want to see C-pepper air the ball deep once a quarter. I want to see slants and gadget plays and sneaks and stuff. Why not run a naked bootleg once in a while, I mean, C-pepper is 270 pounds.

V4L
10-19-2005, 02:05 AM
How could anyone seriously think Brad Johnson would do better? He can't scramble worth shit... It would have been worse last week if we was in and had to take all those blitzes.. DO NOT BENCH PEP! If we do maybe for a quarter to clear his head.. Or when we blow out the Pack and give him a break in the 4th!!

Grassdog61
10-19-2005, 02:11 AM
"StillPurple" wrote:

I agree with the guy who said that C-pepper is doing better now that he is doing a 3-step drop at the line. To me, about 90 % of of the Vikings offensive issues could be solved if they just ran slants and got the ball upfield faster. It seems like there are only two kinds of plays being run: a. a standard off-tackle run, and b. an intermediate route. I think we need to mix it up more. Throw very short routes, slants, etc. Throw to a guy like Williamson on the line and let him "jet" (the way we used to with Moss). Run QB draws more. Run a post pattern on 1st and 10 and whenever they put 7+ in the box. That kind of thing. I don't see us testing the defense. I see a lot of 5-step drops and shotgun and intermediate routes that are too easy to take away with a zone defense. I want to see C-pepper air the ball deep once a quarter. I want to see slants and gadget plays and sneaks and stuff. Why not run a naked bootleg once in a while, I mean, C-pepper is 270 pounds.


Good post. It also wouldn't be a bad idea to run a no-huddle offense from the start of the game so this offense can develop a rhythm. You can tell we don't have a real offensive coordinator

Turboe
10-19-2005, 02:27 AM
"JLDII" wrote:


One thing I've noticed this year that is different than the last few years, offensively............We aren't running reverses (end arounds) anymore, and not nearly as many draws.

Now if we could just find a way to hit the quick slant across the middle when the defense is coming hard with the blitz we might have something to go with.


"StillPurple" wrote:

Throw very short routes, slants, etc. Throw to a guy like Williamson on the line and let him "jet" (the way we used to with Moss). Run QB draws more. ................... I want to see slants and gadget plays and sneaks and stuff. Why not run a naked bootleg once in a while, I mean, C-pepper is 270 pounds.

I was thinking about this today as I watched the TiVo of the game. Is it just me (admittedly not an offensive cordinator by trade) or have we not run one reverse this year? When you draft a guy like TW with this blazing speed and the only potential knock people can come up with on him is his route running, or whether he will have the hands that the other receivers have (neither of which to I personally buy). Why not get him the ball by handing off to him and let him try that nifty speed of his out one time. Not every play, but how about we try it just once (maybe instead of one of those 3rd & 10 draw plays).

Just a thought, or maybe we have been playing possum all season long just waiting for the Packers game to unveil most of our playbook.

audioghost
10-19-2005, 02:28 AM
Yeah, play Brad Johnson....how about we just forfeit the rest of the year, throw away our season....???? C'mon guys, Daunte has earned a whole season after last season....he was almost had the best year ever.....give him a chance, the season is young

midgensa
10-19-2005, 02:36 AM
I think benching him for the start is not a viable option with the money we have invested in him. But if he comes out sluggish and the offense cannot get anything done a few posessions into the game, I have no problem with a second quarter switch.

vikinggreg
10-19-2005, 02:42 AM
"audioghost" wrote:

Yeah, play Brad Johnson....how about we just forfeit the rest of the year, throw away our season....???? C'mon guys, Daunte has earned a whole season after last season....he was almost had the best year ever.....give him a chance, the season is young

I hear yah man, Johnson will get killed and then we'll do what throw Hill in?
Everyone that wants to get rid of Pep tell me who are we getting, I don't see any extra Mannings laying around, I sure Billick would grab Daunte in a heart beat, anyone want to see Kyle Boller here.

Gone are the days when we bring in the Jimmy Mac, Moon, George, and Cunningham we had a stronger overall offense then and good coaching.
Daunte is the best we've got we just need to get the rest working with and for him.

SWAYZE74
10-19-2005, 02:21 PM
no comments..just game stats...

Pep went 26-48, 237yds, completion% 54.2, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, with a QB rating of 50.4 against the bears...

peace...

DaunteHOF
10-19-2005, 03:59 PM
blame it on the QB, pointing fingers now?

mvikes84
10-20-2005, 04:50 AM
"DaunteHOF" wrote:

blame it on the QB, pointing fingers now? He's supposed to be our leader. He even said he would be a "better QB without Randy Moss"!! His QB rating is the fourth WORST. They gave him more guaranteed money before the season started. Yes, the finger is being pointed DIRECTLY AT HIM!!!!

FuadFan
10-20-2005, 04:54 AM
"mvikes84" wrote:

"DaunteHOF" wrote:

blame it on the QB, pointing fingers now? He's supposed to be our leader. He even said he would be a "better QB without Randy Moss"!! His QB rating is the fourth WORST. They gave him more guaranteed money before the season started. Yes, the finger is being pointed DIRECTLY AT HIM!!!!He is not a bad quarterback because we don't have Randy Moss but Randy Moss does not look like an elite WR without him and he can't stay healthy.

viks_fan21
10-20-2005, 05:05 AM
let's just let Bob Sansevere wait until after the packers game. analysts need to stop jumping the gun on this kind of thing.

LosAngelis
10-20-2005, 06:37 AM
Sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread, so sorry if this ends up looking out of place.

The one thing I saw with Culpepper was that fragile ego of his. Last week, I did not understand why they kept him in the game. The game was a blowout, you have this alleged effective backup, PUT HIM IN!

But Culpepper kept going in. Sure, there was a chance he could find his game, but chances were better he'd continue struggling and keep his confidence down.

I'm hoping he continues to struggle next week, so from my vantage point, I'm glad he kept struggling. From a logic standpoint, though, I'd put in a backup for Favre in the same situation.