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Del Rio
10-17-2005, 04:46 PM
I know everyone is boo hooing right now. So if this doesn’t sit well with you then print it out and wipe your ass with it. I watched the game….two times. I will say there were some very good plays that game and some things that really make me happy. Unfortunately for us there were a handful of bad plays at the worst time that lost us the game. Don’t let the score deceive you. Read on if you give a shit.

We got the ball 1st.

Drive #1: 3 first downs, 100% accuracy the ball is moving zero penalties. We burn out, no big deal chip shot field goal. Brad Johnson miss handles the snap. We turn the ball over on downs. Not a good way to start the game. We rebound though and play tough.

Defense #1: They got one first down, the best lineman we have L. Johnstone records a sack. Also you get a very good stop by the safety everyone loves to hate C.Chavous right at the line. They punt.

Drive #2: During this drive you see a very nice 18 yard completion to M.Robinson. We stall out and end up with a 3rd and 5. Not a bad situation to be in IMO. So from SHOTGUN?? We dump a pass off to M.Moore against a team with Urlacher? Needless to say. We punt.

Defense #2: Pass interference call on Antoine Winfield keeps the drive alive but they stall and they punt.

Drive #3: On 3rd and 9 Culpepper runs for the first down. Moore is ineffective around the left side. 16 yard pass to M.Robinson, 52 yard field goal missed. Should have punted IMO. Bears get good field position………doesn’t mean shit because…..

Defense #3: The Safety everyone loves to hate Corey Chavous recovers a FUMBLE we in business!!

Drive #4: 4 first downs and then WTF Wiggins false start. OK we are fine WTF Goldberg holding. 23 yard field goal we SETTLE for it. Son of a bitch.

Defense #4: 3 and out YES!

Drive #5: 3 and out. Keep in mind it was a 3 and out with us looking at 3rd and 3. Lots of options yet we run Bennett to the left? WTF?

Defense #5: BIG MISTAKE ALERT. First off we get a sack. Kevin Williams hooks us up along with Scott (one of my favorite linemen) Although it will not make up for the ultimate fuck up that Kevin Williams does for us later on. So it is 2nd and 16 no problem. Actually there is a problem there is a 4 yard run with E.J Henderson getting a 5 yard face mask. So 2nd and 16 turns into a 2nd and 6. Doesn’t matter anyway because Smoot gets caught sleeping and gets burned for 15 yards. The proceed to score a TD.


Drive #6: 3 and out. 2 incomplete passes. Then on 3rd and Ten we try a run? To the………you guessed it left side.

Defense #6: Penalty on Pat Williams no big deal, because NEWMAN FUMBALIA RECOVEROSA!!!!! YEAH BABY!!!!!!!

Drive #7: 31 yard pass to Troy Williamson, oh it’s so pretty…oh so pretty…. Followed up by a Goldberg off sides and my personal favorite, a Rosey holding. Despite the penalties we manage 3rd and 3. Pass incomplete no big deal 32 yard field goal will make it 6-7 but what’s that you say? A tipped/blocked FG. NO fucking way…..yes way.

Defense #7: 3 and out. Who was the man with the 9 yard sack? Who was the man with the 9 yard sack when we needed one big time? Napoleon Harris was the man with the nine yard sack. Bears punt.

Drive #8: What is it? What’s that you say ROSEY HOLDING YES I love rosey holding makes me feel so good. Culpepper throws an interception. Arguably his only poorly thrown ball of the day, and it’s a big one, ran back to the 3 yard line.

Defense #8: Tired Defense, hostile crowd, 3 yards to defend, TOUCHDOWN Bears.

Drive #9: 3 and out. 3rd down and six and an Incomplete pass………..damn.

Defense#9 Ok lets talk about defense #9 a bit. We are down 3-14 at this point. Our team has done some damn good things, we seem to have a curse. That is all about to change my friends because defense #9 is the game breaker. It is the play that makes you win, or makes you lose. Someone who’s name rhymes with Kevin Williams screwed us so hard we never recovered. Beautiful sack by Newman causing a game altering FUMBLE!!!!!!!!! Henderson makes up for his previous face mask that cost us by running it back for a TOUCHDOWN!!! TOUCHDOWN VIKINGS!!! TOUCHDOWN VIKINGS!!!! 10-14 YES!!........................wait what’s that? KEVIN WILLIAMS WAS OFFSIDES?..........shit

They punt eventually.

Drive #10 12 yard sack by Urlacher 3rd and 19 incomplete. We punt.

Defense #10: Bears go 62 yards in 3 minutes poor defense by Smoot coupled with a pass interference on Smoot hurts us bad…………

Drive #11: We abandon the run. 3 and out.

Defense #11: This is getting bad, but who comes to the rescue? That’s right people. It’s the safety everyone loves to hate. C. Chavous with a big game interception!!!!!!!INTERCEPTION CHAVOUS OMG OMG the gods rain down glory upon us!!!!!!!!!

Drive #12: A pass by Culpepper is tipped by his receiver into the air, we all know what happens next FUCK catch the DAMN BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! INT

Defense #12: No biggy 3 and out

Drive #13: 5 minutes to go in the game, we are backed up deep into our own area we are down 3-21. 4th and 9 to go they bring the house Urlacher sacks Culpepper.

Defense #13: 1 yard TD run.




Ok doubtful you made it this far into the post. This is where I try to make some sense of that game. It was a good game on our part in many many ways. I am encouraged by it. There were a few plays that we simply needed. No question about it we needed those plays. Penalties got us, incomplete passes got us, running to the left side of the line when it failed over and over and over got us. Receivers dropping the ball got us.

This team is quickly dividing up on one side of the line you have the men, and the other stands the boys. The men work hard every game, the men are the people who win games, who bleed who could care less that they make ESPN’s front cover. The boys on this team are a waste of space. I would not be surprised AT ALL if you went down the list of mistakes and poor play you would find that most of the guys who had a bad day were directly involved with the boat trip.

M. Moore ran with heart.
M Robinson got it done
T. Williamson got it done
Chavous no doubt got the job done.
Newman continues to get the job done
Pat Williams gave it all he had.
D. Scott, L. Johnstone, N. Harris

Smoot you hurt us yesterday, K. Williams you hurt us yesterday, Goldberg you hurt us yesterday, and Rosey you played like shit, I hope it hurts. Although something tells me it doesn’t.

IMO Culpepper played a good game. Or I will at least say an improved game. Defense was great except penalties. Offense was hot and cold, and face it the Bears have a serious defense. The best LB in the NFL in my eyes. They were bringing the heat ALL GAME. IMO you eliminate a few mistakes and your looking at a W. IF we are a few mistakes away from winning then that isn’t bad.

The score is deceiving. 3 yards? 1 yard? Who in the NFL couldn’t get a score with that field position? (don’t say us you sorry assholes :grin: ) There was a lot of good to come out of that game. I am impressed.

V4L
10-17-2005, 04:55 PM
Very VERY nice post! I totally agree with everything.. I was just gonna post something like that.. If they didn't blitz every play we could have got something done maybe.. They are the 3rd ranked D I believe and they played like it.. Next week we play a horrible D and get a W!

Big C
10-17-2005, 05:10 PM
Good post Del. I totally agree with your analysis. As always, a couple key plays and #@$%ing penalties keep us from winning games.

Do you agree that we are the worst redzone offense in the league? I dread the Vikings getting in to the redzone. When we are in the opposing redzone we have only three plays:
- Fade to Robinson
- Throw an interception
- Take the checkdowns and settle for a FG
I believe the redzone offense is where we miss Moss the most.

PurpleTide
10-17-2005, 05:12 PM
Way to break it down Del. Aside from those easy scores we weren't that far off. Consentration and execution are what we are lacking and a border game against the pack just might get our consentration where it needs to be. Great Post Del.

whackthepack
10-17-2005, 05:12 PM
Phat Pat Williams had a good game, he played with heart and a lot of Vikings were not!

whackthepack
10-17-2005, 05:14 PM
There should have been a TD to Troy Williamson, wide open going to the corner of the end-zone and C-pep through a terrible pass! It should have been 6 points.

VKG4LFE
10-17-2005, 05:15 PM
It's just so frustrating. I'm drained that's pretty much all I got.

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 05:21 PM
"Big C" wrote:

Good post Del. I totally agree with your analysis. As always, a couple key plays and #@$%ing penalties keep us from winning games.

Do you agree that we are the worst redzone offense in the league? I dread the Vikings getting in to the redzone. When we are in the opposing redzone we have only three plays:
- Fade to Robinson
- Throw an interception
- Take the checkdowns and settle for a FG
I believe the redzone offense is where we miss Moss the most.

I agree to a point. I mean statistically no doubt. The problem in my eyes is the play calling. The shortest distance between two points and yet we continue to dump it off for 2 yards or run around the ends. I think we run around the ends because that's where our only blocking advantage may be. Our TE's Sasser especially can block fairly well.

I still pray for the day that the Vikes line up in the I and pound the ball. I would also argue Mo Williams should be in EVERY redzone play. Not only should he be in he should have plays designed for him in certain situations.

At this point after watching this game, I feel it is just a matter of working through it. It's not pretty but it is gelling.

See everyone was like OMG I LOVE THE NEW TEAM YES YES PRAISE ALLAH!!!!! Oh yeah I know they have to gel, but once they do wow we will be good.

I don't know about you but Gelling is not always easy. Especially with the magnitude of change we are looking at here. Some things that are beautiful endure a violent and Ugly birth, that is why I enjoy the games especially since I personally have noticed a lot of improvement.

This is gelling gentlemen. It's not pretty, but it is what it is. When we hatch out of the cacoon we will be better for it. You can't pull and plug players and expect it to work.

mrviking28
10-17-2005, 05:21 PM
I would say you are half right. I will agree the defense had a solid game just got put in bad situations by the offense. And as far as the offense goes, I saw no improvement on what we should be improving on which is mental mistakes and bad play calling.

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 05:23 PM
"whackthepack" wrote:

There should have been a TD to Troy Williamson, wide open going to the corner of the end-zone and C-pep through a terrible pass! It should have been 6 points.

That was a bad pass, but did you see what was biting his ankle?

vikefan in WI
10-17-2005, 05:24 PM
Same story, different game...Some good looking drives that come to a screeching halt because the team keeps shooting itself in the foot. A loss is a loss, I don't care what the stats say.

6-KINGS
10-17-2005, 05:31 PM
I watched the game one time which was enough for me.

I came away with this:

We..........we uh...........we are not that strong of a team.

Yeah, umm...............they need to give back all the money to season ticket holders with a letter of apology for impersonating a pro football team.

They are beyond any doubt the worst NFL team to take the field anywhere in the last 37 years I have watched the NFL.
And I have seen some pretty bad teams folks.

But inspite of that, I am and always will be a Viking fan.
This is just one of those years that can't get over soon enough.
And I will watch every game on DirecTV or any other station they are playing on.
I will have my Viking Tattoo re-inked in Nov.
I will recieve tons of Viking gifts for Christmas and I will love everyone.
I will still go back and read My old Viking Updates from the 1980's and keep my memories of Tommy Kramer, Joe Sensor alive and kicking.
I will look at my football cards from the 60's, 70's and 80's.
I will lay them out on the table in the formations they ran and just pop a top on a cold can of SKOL Beer and raise my glass, to my team, my heroes and my purple heart that shall forever be a part of me , and I of it.

SKOL 6-KINGS

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 05:33 PM
"vikefan in WI" wrote:

Same story, different game...Some good looking drives that come to a screeching halt because the team keeps shooting itself in the foot. A loss is a loss, I don't care what the stats say.

Yeah we did lose.

We will continue to lose until we fix mistakes and work through them.
Stats are stats, they are the fruits of the labor, tale the lazy way out. Whatever gets you by.

I disagree with the above poster the offense did improve.

tastywaves
10-17-2005, 05:34 PM
I don't know Del. That might be an appropriate breakdown and somewhat optimistic view of where this team is at. The first half of the game I was sitting back saying yea, this is what I wanted to see. Vikings controlling the game, marching up and down the field, good defense. But bottom line, they can't get the ball in the endzone.

Bad play calling, bad personnel, mistakes, ... whatever. This team (including the coaching staff) does not appear to be improving or gelling in my book. Its easy for the defense to look better when playing an offensive team like the bears, but offensively, 3points. Just isn't cutting it. In my book its poor execution all around on offense. Until that ball is in the endzone they need to have a mental attitude that stands up for an entire drive. Its just not happening.

bobdole
10-17-2005, 05:39 PM
your team probably has sex parties before the game which makes them blow

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 05:39 PM
"tastywaves" wrote:

I don't know Del. That might be an appropriate breakdown and somewhat optimistic view of where this team is at. The first half of the game I was sitting back saying yea, this is what I wanted to see. Vikings controlling the game, marching up and down the field, good defense. But bottom line, they can't get the ball in the endzone.

Bad play calling, bad personnel, mistakes, ... whatever. This team (including the coaching staff) does not appear to be improving or gelling in my book. Its easy for the defense to look better when playing an offensive team like the bears, but offensively, 3points. Just isn't cutting it. In my book its poor execution all around on offense. Until that ball is in the endzone they need to have a mental attitude that stands up for an entire drive. Its just not happening.

Like I said that is my take.

Fact of the matter is this, fewer sacks allowed against one of the best defenses.

More turnovers created by the defense. VERY FEW 3rd an 10+ a lot of 3rd and less then 6. Accurate passing for the most part, an attempt to run the ball with random success against a top 5 defense.

I don't care what people think, the wins will begin to roll in. They just have to be worked for, nothing comes easy for this team ever, this is no different.

I am not opposed to negativity in this post though. I admit it was ugly, a loss is a loss. I saw some improvement, I don't watch the game like most people do I guess and if you know me at all you know I don't own any purple shaded sun glasses.

V4L
10-17-2005, 05:42 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"vikefan in WI" wrote:

Same story, different game...Some good looking drives that come to a screeching halt because the team keeps shooting itself in the foot. A loss is a loss, I don't care what the stats say.

Yeah we did lose.

We will continue to lose until we fix mistakes and work through them.
Stats are stats, they are the fruits of the labor, tale the lazy way out. Whatever gets you by.

I disagree with the above poster the offense did improve.


THe O did improve.. We actually have a running game.. And the blocking was good until they blitzed every play.. Burleson will be back and should help a little.. Division is still wide open.. 1 game out only

vikefan in WI
10-17-2005, 05:43 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"vikefan in WI" wrote:

Same story, different game...Some good looking drives that come to a screeching halt because the team keeps shooting itself in the foot. A loss is a loss, I don't care what the stats say.

Yeah we did lose.

We will continue to lose until we fix mistakes and work through them.
Stats are stats, they are the fruits of the labor, tale the lazy way out. Whatever gets you by.

I disagree with the above poster the offense did improve.

3 points in 60 minutes is not the sign of an improved offense.

V4L
10-17-2005, 05:48 PM
"vikefan in WI" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

"vikefan in WI" wrote:

Same story, different game...Some good looking drives that come to a screeching halt because the team keeps shooting itself in the foot. A loss is a loss, I don't care what the stats say.

Yeah we did lose.

We will continue to lose until we fix mistakes and work through them.
Stats are stats, they are the fruits of the labor, tale the lazy way out. Whatever gets you by.

I disagree with the above poster the offense did improve.

3 points in 60 minutes is not the sign of an improved offense.

It is hard to score against a D like that bro.. 3rd ranked in the league.. We had some mistakes but did improve

CanadaViking
10-17-2005, 05:50 PM
I appreciate all of the positives, however the Vikes need to start stringing the positives together, over say a half or heaven forbid a game. I realize that there were some positives to take from Sunday, but I still question the offensive play calling, it was horendous, what was with the last possession of the first half, they darn near gave the ball back!

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 05:50 PM
with the potential for 20+ yes it is.

Few mistakes at bad times, a person here a person there. You hunt them down you fix em. Piss and moan all you like but that's part of the game.

An interception returned to the 3

Blocked field goal
Missed snap on a fieldgoal

TD negated by a penalty

a 4th and 9 stopped on the 1 yard line leading to a score

MULTIPLE plays of 10+ yards including a 31 yarder to our rookie. keeping in mind we are playing against one of the best D's in the league?

Take what you want from it, I stand by my comments.

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 05:51 PM
"CanadaViking" wrote:

I appreciate all of the positives, however the Vikes need to start stringing the positives together, over say a half or heaven forbid a game. I realize that there were some positives to take from Sunday, but I still question the offensive play calling, it was horendous, what was with the last possession of the first half, they darn near gave the ball back!

Yeah they do need to link them together, that's part of the gelling people apparently forgot about.

You work through it.

Webby
10-17-2005, 05:51 PM
Suck it up people. Where is your courage?

You jump now, you don't get back on.

V4L
10-17-2005, 05:52 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

with the potential for 20+ yes it is.

Few mistakes at bad times, a person here a person there. You hunt them down you fix em. Piss and moan all you like but that's part of the game.

An interception returned to the 3

Blocked field goal
Missed snap on a fieldgoal

TD negated by a penalty

a 4th and 9 stopped on the 1 yard line leading to a score

MULTIPLE plays of 10+ yards including a 31 yarder to our rookie. keeping in mind we are playing against one of the best D's in the league?

Take what you want from it, I stand by my comments.


Im standing by ya too bro.. It's all true

6-KINGS
10-17-2005, 05:58 PM
"webmaster" wrote:

Suck it up people. Where is your courage?

You jump now, you don't get back on.

I WILL NEVER JUMP!!!!

EVER!!!

This a cake walk compared to some past Viking problems.

This is where real fans find their corps.
The true Viking Fan soldiers.

V4L
10-17-2005, 05:59 PM
"6-KINGS" wrote:

"webmaster" wrote:

Suck it up people. Where is your courage?

You jump now, you don't get back on.

I WILL NEVER JUMP!!!!

EVER!!!

This a cake walk compared to some past Viking problems.

This is where real fans find their corps.
The true Viking Fan soldiers.


Me either man.. my pops has been a Vikes fan for 35+ years.. I can do that too! Through thick or thin

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 06:14 PM
This isn't about jumping ship, I could care less who jumps ship. If you have doubts go cheer for one of your other 6 favorite teams. Do what every makes you guys happy.

If you don't want to be on for the ride then don't. If you just feel like bitching an blowing off steam have at it.

If you want to jump ship and come back next week after we start winning again I'll be the first to give you a hand back on the wagon.

vikefan in WI
10-17-2005, 06:21 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

This isn't about jumping ship, I could care less who jumps ship. If you have doubts go cheer for one of your other 6 favorite teams. Do what every makes you guys happy.

If you don't want to be on for the ride then don't. If you just feel like bitching an blowing off steam have at it.

If you want to jump ship and come back next week after we start winning again I'll be the first to give you a hand back on the wagon.


I hope that you are not suggesting that I am jumping ship...

JLDII
10-17-2005, 06:22 PM
I liked what I saw from the O early in the game, actually, most of the first half. The quick 3 step drop passing game, which IS the the base of a west coast, was working well, even though better run calling would help it even more, we were still able to move the ball with the underneath passes. The problem with that though, especially playing a defense like the Bears' is that it only takes one holding, or false start penalty to make us have to complete a 2nd and long, or 3rd and long, and right now, this offense can't make those plays. IF,....and that is a big IF, we could get rid of all the false starts, and holding calls, we could actually be a bit more dangerous on offense.

One thing I just can figure out is why it is that when the opposing defense starts really coming with the pressure, we can't get a wide out, or actually slot reciever, sprung open on a quick slant, ala CC. The route has to be there if they are bringing 8 on the rush, plus, it is a quick release pass so the pressure shouldn't get to Daunte.

snowinapril
10-17-2005, 06:24 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:


Ok doubtful you made it this far into the post. This is where I try to make some sense of that game. It was a good game on our part in many many ways. I am encouraged by it. There were a few plays that we simply needed. No question about it we needed those plays. Penalties got us, incomplete passes got us, running to the left side of the line when it failed over and over and over got us. Receivers dropping the ball got us.

Smoot you hurt us yesterday, K. Williams you hurt us yesterday, Goldberg you hurt us yesterday, and Rosey you played like pooh, I hope it hurts. Although something tells me it doesn’t.

IMO Culpepper played a good game. Or I will at least say an improved game. Defense was great except penalties. Offense was hot and cold, and face it the Bears have a serious defense. The best LB in the NFL in my eyes. They were bringing the heat ALL GAME. IMO you eliminate a few mistakes and your looking at a W. IF we are a few mistakes away from winning then that isn’t bad.

The score is deceiving. 3 yards? 1 yard? Who in the NFL couldn’t get a score with that field position? (don’t say us you sorry donkey butts :grin: ) There was a lot of good to come out of that game. I am impressed.

In a previous post in a different thread, I called our D soft. I was wrong. I think I meant to say lacked heart. They played well against a bad offense.

On those 2 drives that we 3 yards for a TD and the drive that was 1 yard for the TD. It took a total of 3 plays to score 2 TDs. It didn't look like they wanted a dog fight down there, they got rolled over. I realize that it is a little demoralizing when the O starts that close, but you have to atleast look like you want to hold them to only a FG.

The 28 points is a little worse than it looks but, we couldn't hold them to one FG on 4 tries. That 24 yard TD by Jones was terrible, it looked like the D gave up on that also. It didn't look like they were trying to fight off the blocks.

Both the O and D are soft mentally, with all those penalties.

I think the D looked a little better than they are against the mediocre Offense of the Bears. The one thing I give the Vikes D credit for is not letting the Bears O line dominate them. We held the Bears to minimal rushing yards. Jones had 89, but if you minus that 24 yarder where the D look beat down, that is only 65 yards on 22 carries. The Bears O line is very good at Run Blocking, not as good at Pass Blocking. The second thing to give our D credit for is the forced fumble and Chavous' INT. Chavous played that on like a centerfielder chasing down a fly ball.

I have been saying similar things to what you are saying:

Time to gel
Can't expect it to come together fast with so much change
Penalties
Turn Overs

It just gets tiresome saying it over and over. The penalties and turn overs just keep putting us in bad situations that are hard for this team to work themselves out of. If we had half as many TOs and Penalties, we would have 2 more Ws on the season.

Special teams which has been pretty damn good did not play well yesterday. Klewe, had a 55 yard punt with a 49 yard return and a 25 yd punt that went out of bounds at the Bears 20, how about pinning them back closer to the goal line on that one. Edinger, 3 botched FGs, what more can you say. As far as Klewe, I think he only had 5 or 6 punts max.

I appreciate your POV Del. I also appreciate you staying positive and pointing those things out.

6-KINGS
10-17-2005, 06:26 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

This isn't about jumping ship, I could care less who jumps ship. If you have doubts go cheer for one of your other 6 favorite teams. Do what every makes you guys happy.

If you don't want to be on for the ride then don't. If you just feel like bitching an blowing off steam have at it.

If you want to jump ship and come back next week after we start winning again I'll be the first to give you a hand back on the wagon.

Then I plunge a screwdriver into your temple.
I will make a trampoline out of your skin.
While Del uses his two old fridges to smoke your body into jerky!
But welcome back!
:wink:

6-KINGS
10-17-2005, 06:31 PM
"vikefan in WI" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

This isn't about jumping ship, I could care less who jumps ship. If you have doubts go cheer for one of your other 6 favorite teams. Do what every makes you guys happy.

If you don't want to be on for the ride then don't. If you just feel like bitching an blowing off steam have at it.

If you want to jump ship and come back next week after we start winning again I'll be the first to give you a hand back on the wagon.


I hope that you are not suggesting that I am jumping ship...

No he is talking about me.
You noticed he used the #6 in his post.
Del is always talking in code.
He gets that from his backgound in secret aerospace work that he does.

Del is just doing his best to be proactive after the lose
Which is a good thing.

tastywaves
10-17-2005, 06:31 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"tastywaves" wrote:

I don't know Del. That might be an appropriate breakdown and somewhat optimistic view of where this team is at. The first half of the game I was sitting back saying yea, this is what I wanted to see. Vikings controlling the game, marching up and down the field, good defense. But bottom line, they can't get the ball in the endzone.

Bad play calling, bad personnel, mistakes, ... whatever. This team (including the coaching staff) does not appear to be improving or gelling in my book. Its easy for the defense to look better when playing an offensive team like the bears, but offensively, 3points. Just isn't cutting it. In my book its poor execution all around on offense. Until that ball is in the endzone they need to have a mental attitude that stands up for an entire drive. Its just not happening.

Like I said that is my take.

Fact of the matter is this, fewer sacks allowed against one of the best defenses.

More turnovers created by the defense. VERY FEW 3rd an 10+ a lot of 3rd and less then 6. Accurate passing for the most part, an attempt to run the ball with random success against a top 5 defense.

I don't care what people think, the wins will begin to roll in. They just have to be worked for, nothing comes easy for this team ever, this is no different.

I am not opposed to negativity in this post though. I admit it was ugly, a loss is a loss. I saw some improvement, I don't watch the game like most people do I guess and if you know me at all you know I don't own any purple shaded sun glasses.

I realize you try to be as analytical as you can when breaking down the vikes. When people are all giddy with anticipation you bring them down to earth. Now that a lot of us have our heads 3 feet down in the sand, your trying once again to bring us back to the middle which is that football is a complex game. Little things make all the difference in the world, the vikings showed some improvement,....

The problem is bigger than all that to me (probably a naive perspective on my part), but to me all these little things that are going wrong, all the mental mistakes, bad play calling or mostly just poor execution when it matters most is the real issue. They have the traits of a team that doesn't know how to win right now. More importantly they seem to dissolve as the game wears on, a couple negative plays and they don't seem to know how to bounce back.

They are losing the individual batlles for the most part, I was hoping that veteran leadership on the field (both offense and defensive) would be better this year to help people play at their potentials. A lot of distractions a lot of changes.... More importantly I think is lack of confidence that the Vikes know how to manage and win a game (sorry Tice, that means you and your staff).

I don't know the answer, but somebody needs to step up an be a superman and bring the rest of the team along with him. That can only come from one person on this team... Daunte. I'm not saying he's the reason for all the Vikes problems, but I do think he has the best chance of resurrecting this team (mostly due to his position). If there's one guy I'm cheering for more than anyone else, its Daunte. I think he has to do exceptional for this team to gain confidence back.

Sorry for the rambling....

Mr. Purple
10-17-2005, 06:33 PM
I honestly think this year is a year for our team to get to know each other i guess you could say. We're gettin the pieces together. I beleive next year this team will be what we all thought it would be this year. Alot of changes came about to this team, and its really not fair for us to exspect a 8-8 ball club to suddenly become 16-0, superbowl champs. I think this year is very simular to the bucs last year, had a ruff start with alot of changes to thier defense and team...but used the season as a way to "gell" and play as one. I really think this year is gonna set up next year. and set us up good.

StillPurple
10-17-2005, 06:34 PM
Posted above: "Defense #4: 3 and out YES!"

:roll: :shock:

snowinapril
10-17-2005, 06:37 PM
"JLDII" wrote:

I liked what I saw from the O early in the game, actually, most of the first half. The quick 3 step drop passing game, which IS the the base of a west coast, was working well, even though better run calling would help it even more, we were still able to move the ball with the underneath passes. The problem with that though, especially playing a defense like the Bears' is that it only takes one holding, or false start penalty to make us have to complete a 2nd and long, or 3rd and long, and right now, this offense can't make those plays. IF,....and that is a big IF, we could get rid of all the false starts, and holding calls, we could actually be a bit more dangerous on offense.

One thing I just can figure out is why it is that when the opposing defense starts really coming with the pressure, we can't get a wide out, or actually slot reciever, sprung open on a quick slant, ala CC. The route has to be there if they are bringing 8 on the rush, plus, it is a quick release pass so the pressure shouldn't get to Daunte.

I think the opposing Ds are playing over the top, pushing us into the underneath stuff. They are giving us that and waiting for us to destruct our own efforts. Right now, that is all a team has to do because we make so many mistakes with penalties and TO.

Also, they said that was part of the game plan for the Bears to try and bat balls down on the pass which they knew were going to be short and underneath.

Right on about the fact that we haven't been able to be dangerous yet. Those things have been limiting what we can do and the element of surprise. We would have many more chances for open looks like "ALMOST" T-Will TD that was overthrown by DC.

Paulbedy59
10-17-2005, 06:40 PM
Some of what you say Del I agree with,some not.There is no coaching discipline or leadership on this team! This reminds me of the Les Steckle nightmare.As far as our defense playing well?They did do better,but alot of teams do versus the bears offense.The penalties killed us again and will continue to do so until some A$$ starts getting chewed.I only have ONE team and THIS IS IT!! I would rather have bamboo slivers hammered under my fingernails than root for another team.NOW LETS GET GOING AND GET READY TO KICK SOME BUTT_PACKER A$$!!!!!!!!!!!!

snowinapril
10-17-2005, 06:42 PM
"WilliamsonOfTroy" wrote:

I honestly think this year is a year for our team to get to know each other i guess you could say. We're gettin the pieces together. I beleive next year this team will be what we all thought it would be this year. Alot of changes came about to this team, and its really not fair for us to exspect a 8-8 ball club to suddenly become 16-0, superbowl champs. I think this year is very simular to the bucs last year, had a ruff start with alot of changes to thier defense and team...but used the season as a way to "gell" and play as one. I really think this year is gonna set up next year. and set us up good.

Does that go for next year then too?

Maybe a 7-9 team going 16-0 and winning the SB, we shouldn't expect that.

JK :lol:

Throw in a new coaching staff next year and try to gel that together with some new scemes. Call it another Transition Year if you will and hope for a Cinderella story.

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 07:03 PM
A few things to address:

No I wasn't accusing anyone of jumping ship. I was saying as a fan I think there is no right or wrong if you are mad be mad talk shit work it out. If someone wants to jump ship I don't blame them do whatever makes em happy. I have no ego in that regard everone is a fan in their own way I don't meddle in that.


Coaching: Yes coaching is an issue. I liked the play calling for the most part, I didn't like the execution. I am wierd though I like that they ran on a 3rd and 10. I really don't like that we ran to the left almost exclusively.

To the guy who quoted my 3 and out YES!!! I have no idea what the fuck you are trying to say use letter next time.

RK.
10-17-2005, 07:23 PM
I knew we were in trouble I think it was on drive #4. We were on the 2 yrd line first and goal and couldn't get it in due to mistakes and poor play calling. It seems to me that 4 qb sneaks in a row could have put it in. CP is big enough to fall foward 1/2 a yrd each time. The whole game went down hill from that point IMO. I am sorry Del but when you have two weeks to prepare for a game and can't get more that one field goal, we are not getting better. :sad:

BTW being critical is not jumping ship. :wink:

Webby
10-17-2005, 07:27 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

This isn't about jumping ship, I could care less who jumps ship. If you have doubts go cheer for one of your other 6 favorite teams. Do what every makes you guys happy.

If you don't want to be on for the ride then don't. If you just feel like bitching an blowing off steam have at it.

If you want to jump ship and come back next week after we start winning again I'll be the first to give you a hand back on the wagon.


my post wasn't directed at you, just all the folks who want to only cheer when its easy. If you're just blowing steam, have fun. Everyone needs to be able to do that!

snowinapril
10-17-2005, 07:32 PM
"Antoine Winfield from Star Trib" wrote:

Fans overboard: Cornerback Antoine Winfield said he realizes that a lot of Vikings fans are probably ready to jump ship right now, and he said he wouldn't blame them.

"I wouldn't watch us anymore," he said. "We're not putting anything good on the field. We're not scoring; we're not really stopping anybody. I don't know, though. That's me."

Not advocating jumping ship, just thought this deserved to go here.

I think AW is saying it is alright to be frustrated, sounds like he is.

Mr. Purple
10-17-2005, 07:35 PM
Does that go for next year then too?

Maybe a 7-9 team going 16-0 and winning the SB, we shouldn't expect that.

JK -snowinapril-





well what I ment was, this team underwent alot of changes and this is really a season for them to come together and learn how to play as one. and This season can really set up next season.

Webby
10-17-2005, 07:37 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

"Antoine Winfield from Star Trib" wrote:

Fans overboard: Cornerback Antoine Winfield said he realizes that a lot of Vikings fans are probably ready to jump ship right now, and he said he wouldn't blame them.

"I wouldn't watch us anymore," he said. "We're not putting anything good on the field. We're not scoring; we're not really stopping anybody. I don't know, though. That's me."

Not advocating jumping ship, just thought this deserved to go here.

I think AW is saying it is alright to be frustrated, sounds like he is.

I hope he's frustrated. He should be...he's been getting smacked around himself a bit on the field.

snowinapril
10-17-2005, 07:43 PM
"WilliamsonOfTroy" wrote:


well what I ment was, this team underwent alot of changes and this is really a season for them to come together and learn how to play as one. and This season can really set up next season.

I think our players were just as hyped as we were going into the season. Maybe they took it too lightly going into it. I hope that doesn't happen next year, with all the coaching changes and possibly the player changes.

I think that when the going gets tough, the tough get going. It is hard for me to believe they are trying that hard based on their performances and off the field digressions.

Muggsy
10-17-2005, 07:43 PM
Del Rio wrote:

Smoot you hurt us yesterday, K. Williams you hurt us yesterday, Goldberg you hurt us yesterday, and Rosey you played like pooh, I hope it hurts. Although something tells me it doesn’t.

IMO Culpepper played a good game. Or I will at least say an improved game.

I don't know about Culpepper. I was only able to listen to the game on the radio via Field Pass, and the two radio jocks, ex-Viking players, kept saying in the 2nd half how badly Culpepper was over-throwing his receivers, once on a wide-open Williamson in the end zone. They were wondering why C-Pep wasn't sat down in the 4th when the game was out of reach, and the ball given to Brad Johnson, at least to try to spark the team.

Another point the jocks made was the lack of play execution. During the week, they watched the practices, and noted how everyone played crisply and effectively, only to see them come into the game and act like they were mystified at what they should do. They couldn't understand how a team could get it so right during practice, and so wrong during the game. In their opinion, whatever was wrong, they didn't believe the coaching was the problem.

Many people on the team can play not entirely up to their potential and cause the team to struggle, but the main reason a team will struggle is the quarterback, who can play poorly enough for the team to lose. If the quarterback is not playing well, the team will have a poor chance to win at best. I don't know what Culpepper's problem is, or what the solution is. But, given his stats right now, and the decisions he has made on the field, and his overall play in general, I feel that, if there is one position that is causing the Vikes the most headaches this year, it is the quarterback. Either Culpepper needs to figure out what to do, or bench him.

snowinapril
10-17-2005, 08:05 PM
"OldManVike" wrote:


Many people on the team can play not entirely up to their potential and cause the team to struggle, but the main reason a team will struggle is the quarterback, who can play poorly enough for the team to lose. If the quarterback is not playing well, the team will have a poor chance to win at best. I don't know what Culpepper's problem is, or what the solution is. But, given his stats right now, and the decisions he has made on the field, and his overall play in general, I feel that, if there is one position that is causing the Vikes the most headaches this year, it is the quarterback. Either Culpepper needs to figure out what to do, or bench him.

I agree that DC played better yesterday than he has previously this season. He was doing a fine job until the INTs. He was taking what was given to him. We were playing safe.

I also agree with you. I have been waivering on this(pulling DC) since someone mentioned it about 3 games ago. If anything, it would validate things for us, and for DC.

If BJ goes in and gets creamed and throws INTs, we can say it must be the O line and or play calling.

If BJ goes in and puts drives down the field together and hits WRs, then we know it is possible to do. DC would know that it is possible.

I am not giving up on DC, but from a hind-sight perspective, I wish that TICE would have atleast put BJ in during the ATL or CIN game to allow DC from further entering the slump and to possibly prove that driving the field was and is a possibility.

Ltrey33
10-17-2005, 08:25 PM
Nice post there by Del. I agree with him 100%.

Del Rio
10-17-2005, 08:51 PM
Webby I knew what you meant man, I was just trying to let people who posted here that I don't care where they stand as a fan. It's just frustrating.

I know it's ugly and I know you don't like it guys. Was it an improvement over our team from last year? NOPE

Was it an improvement from our other loses this year, yes I do think so.
That's what matters this year, these players, these coaches. I think they are working through things.

I like that.