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View Full Version : Newman > Harris?



Big C
09-26-2005, 08:01 PM
I have been picking on Harris since pre-season. Well we're 3 games in to the season and am I the only one who still thinks that Napolean Harris is the least productive player in starting lineup? Everytime Newman is in at SAM I see him making plays (with less playing time than Harris I assume). I watched Harris simply suck during the second Saints TD (he let the guy catch the ball in front of him and didn't lay a finger on him setting of 1st and goal. Then he totally blew coverage on the TD pass).

I don't hear Cowart's name too much either, but I think his leadership is apparent and is making a difference. That might explain the defensive breakdown against the Bengals.

Harris though, hasn't shown me a damn thing so far. If MeMo can pass Bennett in the depth chart, I don't see why Newman can't pass Harris.

PS1: Kudos to Offord for being a fine replacement for Sharper.
PS2: Hats off to Kluwe for punting the heck out of that ball (leads NFL in punt average).
PS3: Compliments to Edinger on 4 FGs. Sure he missed one, but thos FGs all add-up.
PS4: Thumbs up to K-Rob on the 43 yargd kick return. These guys all stepped up and made a difference in the game yesterday.

Mr. Purple
09-26-2005, 08:03 PM
Ya I know what your sayin. Seems like Nappo is invisible out there. Keith Newman has really stepped his game up.

Webby
09-26-2005, 08:09 PM
I wonder about Harris too right now.

I will post the year to date stats in the Gameday section like I do each week. I will be curious to see those numbers between the two....

mnjamie
09-26-2005, 08:11 PM
I have to agree. Ya hear Newman's name all over the place and Nappo is none existant .... Hope he gets more playing time, but may take awhile as Ticey might have an aversion to sitting Nappo more since he was part of the trade with that WR I refuse to name.

Del Rio
09-26-2005, 08:21 PM
Keep in mind Harris and Cowart are new to the system. Coming from completely different styles of play to try and make an impact here. Wasn't Harris a MLB as well?

I don't think he has made a BIG play that would make you say wow, but he seems to be around the ball alot.

Vikes
09-26-2005, 08:24 PM
I hope he is not a bust????

pigskinronin
09-26-2005, 08:28 PM
"Big C" wrote:


PS1: Kudos to Offord for being a fine replacement for Sharper.
PS2: Hats off to Kluwe for punting the heck out of that ball (leads NFL in punt average).


Offord did great! They actually moved Chavous over to replace Sharper, and Offord plyed SS. Too bad Offord may have a serious knee injury.

For the last few weeks I read on this site how Kluwe has been killing the ball - I guess I never noticed it until this game. Holy cow that leg is a cannon!

michaelmazid
09-26-2005, 09:27 PM
I don't see any reason why Keith Newman should not be starting for us. The guy just makes plays.

Muggsy
09-26-2005, 10:08 PM
I was listening to the game via NFL Field Pass, and the announcers kept saying how badly Harris was getting beaten in coverage by RB's and tight ends. Maybe he just needs more time to get used to his current position, but, it doesn't sound good to me.

VikingsTw
09-26-2005, 10:10 PM
Kieth Newman is playing awesome football, not to go overboard but he at times looks like Ray Lewis flying to ball launching hiself into mid air and knocking somebody on there bottom. He is also playing the pass game to perfection.

Harris needs to visit the bench, i thought this guy was gonna be better, i know its early but still, if he's that good he would have already did something to impress me in the regular season. Does anyone else think he looks uncordinated when he runs, like he has no agility, its kinda wierd?

VikingsTw
09-26-2005, 10:12 PM
"OldManVike" wrote:

I was listening to the game via NFL Field Pass, and the announcers kept saying how badly Harris was getting beaten in coverage by RB's and tight ends. Maybe he just needs more time to get used to his current position, but, it doesn't sound good to me.

Thats true, he always seems to be behind the play when he is covering someone, bad passes and dropped passes have really saved him from being expossed as a weakness.

V-Unit
09-26-2005, 10:40 PM
For run plays it seemed like either the D-Line was making the plays themselves. When that didn't happen, the LBs filled their gap well and our secondary was flying to the ball. Harris and Cowart may be playing good, I can't tell, but I definetly don't remember them making many run stops individually and their pass coverage aint too hot either. Napo was fooled by the sameplay two weeks in a row, both for TDs. I'm not ready to say bench them but there is definetly room for improvement.

Big C
09-27-2005, 01:12 AM
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Harris is not playing up to par. I can still remember a preseason game where the 3rd string offense ran two consecutive 10+ yard runs against our starting D because Harris overpursued and the RB (3rd string mind you) ran right by him.

In the Chargers pre-season game he totally blew coverage on the TE allowing for a 60 yard gain.

Yesterday I saw:
1. He watched a player (RB or TE I think) catch a ball in front of him 2 or 3 yards short of the 1st down marker and he didn't even react. That setup 1st and goal.
2. Very next play got beaten in coverage without any effort at all for a TD.
3. Came on a blitz, got picked up by the RB and sort of just gave up on the play instead of banging in to the RB full steam. That would have nudged the RB a couple inches back right in to the QB. All I could think as I saw that was (if that was Newman...).

I think (as someone mentioned earlier) the only reason he is starting is because he is the player we got from the Moss trade.

We NEED a solid SAM LB (and EJ very badly!) to stop ATL's rushing attack next week.

VikingsTw
09-27-2005, 02:33 AM
Yeah EJ needs to get back on the field, nobody has mentioned it but Dontarius Thomas played horrible yesterday, looked confused, lost, and he is always late on everything catching guys from behind because he blew his coverage. He's got speed but does he got brains?

DoraTheExplorer
09-27-2005, 02:36 AM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Keep in mind Harris and Cowart are new to the system. Coming from completely different styles of play to try and make an impact here. Wasn't Harris a MLB as well?

I don't think he has made a BIG play that would make you say wow, but he seems to be around the ball alot.

Besides which, we traded Randy Moss for him!!! How would it look if we benched the LB that we traded away the best receiver in the league for???

I hate to say it, but it's the truth. Tice could never bench him.

VikingsTw
09-27-2005, 07:22 PM
"DoraTheExplorer" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

Keep in mind Harris and Cowart are new to the system. Coming from completely different styles of play to try and make an impact here. Wasn't Harris a MLB as well?

I don't think he has made a BIG play that would make you say wow, but he seems to be around the ball alot.

Besides which, we traded Randy Moss for him!!! How would it look if we benched the LB that we traded away the best receiver in the league for???

I hate to say it, but it's the truth. Tice could never bench him.

Well either way the NFL is a buisness and if he dont produce he will probably be benched. I want to see him do good, maybe its to early to bench him, we will see.

SamDawg84
09-27-2005, 07:31 PM
bench him!! for only 2 games though. i thought he would already learn the system already! he was at all the minicamps. so y hasnt he produced yet?!

Wiggles67
09-27-2005, 07:33 PM
Yeah I agree with Dora I think Tice lets his pride get in the way occasionally and dont see Harris getting benched anytime soon. This is like the whole starting RB thing where Tice declared Bennet the man and no matter how poorly he played it seems as though he never even gave the other guys a shot. ...did anyone see the comments he made about MeMo after the game?

Tice:

Mewelde runs hard; he has to take his game to the next level and finish drives. He has a long way to go; he made a number of mistakes like everyone did. We ran out of bounds in the four-minute drill. How young of a mistake is that, especially when you work on it twice a week? But he has a lot of talent. He's smart; he's tough. He has a knack of breaking tackles. He has a strong lower body, and he has a desire to be good, so it was a plus for us to get him going in there. It's good; it helps with your play-action if you can get the running game going.


there is a lot more negative stuff in there then positive like he doest want to give him credit for his good game. blah!

ThorSPL
09-27-2005, 07:36 PM
I see the way Tice dogs on Moore being one of two things:

1) He hates him and has no choice but to play him since the other options are not working.

2) He seems a LOT of potential in the kid and is using all of this as a motivating force for him. I won't say I do or don't agree with it, but certain coaches do get down on players and criticize them as a motivational factor. This may be the case since he acknowledges (but downplays) all of what Moore does well and is quick to point out he has a lot to learn and a lot to improve on.

VikingsTw
09-27-2005, 07:37 PM
I dont get it, what is Tice's problem with Moore. Dude's a G, he can say this and that but bottome line is we win with moore, whens the last time we started bennett and won the game? Whens the last time he rushed for 100 yards?

VikingsTw
09-27-2005, 07:39 PM
"ThorSPL" wrote:

I see the way Tice dogs on Moore being one of two things:

1) He hates him and has no choice but to play him since the other options are not working.

2) He seems a LOT of potential in the kid and is using all of this as a motivating force for him. I won't say I do or don't agree with it, but certain coaches do get down on players and criticize them as a motivational factor. This may be the case since he acknowledges (but downplays) all of what Moore does well and is quick to point out he has a lot to learn and a lot to improve on.


All i can say is i hope he doesnt try to motivate him like he tried to motivate Hovan.

mnjamie
09-27-2005, 07:42 PM
"ThorSPL" wrote:

I see the way Tice dogs on Moore being one of two things:

1) He hates him and has no choice but to play him since the other options are not working.

2) He seems a LOT of potential in the kid and is using all of this as a motivating force for him. I won't say I do or don't agree with it, but certain coaches do get down on players and criticize them as a motivational factor. This may be the case since he acknowledges (but downplays) all of what Moore does well and is quick to point out he has a lot to learn and a lot to improve on.




I see #1 as the main reason, along wiht Tice publicly putting so much faith and hype into Bennett he didn't want to eat crow.

#2 ... Moore does need to work on his blitz pick-up's alot.

Jviking
09-27-2005, 07:48 PM
It would be nice to see the guy that we "traded moss for" be a playmaker. He is in a tough spot. I hope he turns it on soon, or he should be on the bench...

Big C
09-27-2005, 08:22 PM
Just a comment on the Moore thing. Tice says what he wants to the Media. With his players he's more direct, open and honest. At the end of the saints game I saw Tice call Moore over, talk to him eye to eye with an approving look and pat the guy on the head. If I'm a player, that's all the motivation I need right there. Coach gave me 20 carries, I showed him what I can do with 20 carries. Coach likes what I did with 20 carries. I'm no stud RB yet. But I will be in a couple of years.

To hell with what he tells the media. The media is a circus anyway.

Mr. Purple
09-27-2005, 08:29 PM
He may not have made a big play or "produced" but him alone has not lost us a game, so to bench him right now would be stupid. Kieth Newman is really playing top notch football right now, and lets hope he continues to play like that. Lord knows we need all the the help we can get at the LB position.

Del Rio
09-27-2005, 08:29 PM
Can Newman produce like that all game long? Or is his rise to greatness due in part to Nap being on the field more often then not? I mean if he is a specialty guy that is being used for specific sets, maybe having him in there would do more harm then good.

There is nothing wrong having a guy in there that does a good job, not everything needs to be a highlight reel. I'm not leaning one way or another. I am just curious if Newman would become less of a weapon if he was in there all game long in every set.

PurplePackerEater
09-27-2005, 08:44 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Can Newman produce like that all game long? Or is his rise to greatness due in part to Nap being on the field more often then not? I mean if he is a specialty guy that is being used for specific sets, maybe having him in there would do more harm then good.

There is nothing wrong having a guy in there that does a good job, not everything needs to be a highlight reel. I'm not leaning one way or another. I am just curious if Newman would become less of a weapon if he was in there all game long in every set.

I see what you're saying, kind of like a Lance Johnstone.

VKG4LFE
09-27-2005, 09:18 PM
I thought one of the selling points for Harris was the fact that he was a good coverage linebacker. I guess not?

MensaTice
09-27-2005, 09:27 PM
Newman has been the best surpise of the season to date. In training camp all we talked about was Nap, DT, and Henderson and Newman has been the one that has brought it on Sundays. He is also a class act. His interview on KFAN after the Cincy game is what renewed my faith in the offense.

whackthepack
09-27-2005, 09:28 PM
Somebody needs to teach Napoleon how to blitz! That was one of the lamest attempts at a blitz, he looked like he was scared.

I do not know the answer to your question Del, but if Harris does not play better we need to kind out, and maybe being dropped on the depth chart will motivate Harris.

gregair13
09-27-2005, 09:37 PM
i might agree with you in a few weeks, but as of right now no. harris is still better. newman needs to keep up his amazing pace and continue to make palys for the defense.