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View Full Version : Minnesota Legislature = Cheap!



audioghost
09-21-2005, 11:34 PM
O.K., the funding for the stadium adds like 5cents onto the dollar in taxes....CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP! I hate it....nobody cares about the Vikings and it makes me furious! Move the Vikes here to South Dakota....people actually care about em' here! People in Minny aren't that poor that they can't pay 5 cents!!!!

ShanePurpleBlood
09-21-2005, 11:44 PM
This article doesn't shine a good light on the stadium deal. I just wish it was being built for sure.


Vikings’ stadium plan needs retooling
A new Vikings stadium moves Minnesotans to question their priorities.




new Vikings stadium is good for Minnesota. The way the Vikings ownership proposes to pay for it, however, is not.
The proposal calls for a $675 million retractable-roof stadium to be located in Blaine. The taxpayers of Anoka County would pay for the majority — $400 million — of the stadium with another $115 million coming from the state.

Unfortunately, Anoka County is asking the state to waive state law that requires a sales tax to be passed by referendum. The county would then impose a 0.75 percent sales tax to help pay for construction. Disallowing Anoka County residents a vote on whether the stadium is right for them or if the price is reasonable is intolerable and another example of how business enterprises use their power to the detriment of regular, working people.



Read on:

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2005/09/21/65208/

FuadFan
09-21-2005, 11:46 PM
Well you almost had the training camp up there in your part of the state before they reached a new deal with Mankato. Anyway this does suck but with two others going for stadiums as well it will be tough for any of them to get deals. (Although I think the Gophers should shut up and just continue playing in the Metrodome so the pro franchises, mainly the Vikings can get their deals done)

audioghost
09-21-2005, 11:48 PM
OK, so gas goes up by $1.50 per gallon in the last 2 years, but Minnesotans can't pay a .75 sales tax? I think they should raise the South Dakota sales tax a percent or two to help the cause....people around here wouldn't mind to help out! I'm sure North Dakota would be the same....we're all Vikes fans around here...even though in the last 2 weeks many are hesitant to admit it!

audioghost
09-21-2005, 11:52 PM
"FuadFan" wrote:

Well you almost had the training camp up there in your part of the state before they reached a new deal with Mankato. Anyway this does suck but with two others going for stadiums as well it will be tough for any of them to get deals. (Although I think the Gophers should shut up and just continue playing in the Metrodome so the pro franchises, mainly the Vikings can get their deals done)

Yeah, they almost held Vikings Camp on the field that I used to play high school football on....very nice field, field turf and everything....wish it woulda got done because in the summer I work right across the parking lot at canaries stadium....I coulda went to watch Vikings practice, then went straight to work at the stadium....woulda been bliss for me!

whackthepack
09-22-2005, 12:13 AM
The .75 tax would be in Anoka county, not a state wide tax.

On 100 hundred dollars spent, it would cost 75 cents in extra tax.

The state would contribute 115 million towards the stadium and 115 million in infrastructure (roads), that is already planned to be done it just would be done sooner.

And the bonds they issue would be recaptured form the taxes raised from building the stadium and the surrounding project, and sales tax from those venues.

But they do not mention that the 115 million for the road improvements is already scheduled to be done. That is not added cost, and the state actually makes money on that deal because of the increased revenue from this project.

It comes down to people being short sited, and not looking at the big picture.

Nobody mentions the 70 million we spent on the Gutherie Theather that is a privately held company.

Or the 5 million to move that building on E street 1 block because it is on the historical buildings list. Even tho it is going to cost us another 7 to 12 million more, because they screwed it up and they have to renevate the building.

So give me my damnn stadium you cheap bastards.

Had to vent!

audioghost
09-22-2005, 12:30 AM
"whackthepack" wrote:

The .75 tax would be in Anoka county, not a state wide tax.

On 100 hundred dollars spent, it would cost 75 cents in extra tax.

The state would contribute 115 million towards the stadium and 115 million in infrastructure (roads), that is already planned to be done it just would be done sooner.

And the bonds they issue would be recaptured form the taxes raised from building the stadium and the surrounding project, and sales tax from those venues.

But they do not mention that the 115 million for the road improvements is already scheduled to be done. That is not added cost, and the state actually makes money on that deal because of the increased revenue from this project.

It comes down to people being short sited, and not looking at the big picture.

Nobody mentions the 70 million we spent on the Gutherie Theather that is a privately held company.

Or the 5 million to move that building on E street 1 block because it is on the historical buildings list. Even tho it is going to cost us another 7 to 12 million more, because they screwed it up and they have to renevate the building.

So give me my damnn stadium you cheap bastards.
Had to vent!


So true...and its funny, some of these people were the same people who used to blast (and still do) the Vikings and Twins because their owners were (McCombs) and are (Pohlad) cheap! I would now ask these same people, how are you any better you penny pinching butt stuffers!

PurplePackerEater
09-22-2005, 12:33 AM
I agree with all of you, I want a stadium.

But you have to see it from another's point of view, would you want to pay for something you could care less about? Especially while your child's school is under funded?


What I want to know is, are sports teams beneficial or a burden on society? What I mean is, in the “Big Picture�, does the state make money off of the teams (jobs, taxes, state appeal), or does the cost of the stadium far out weigh the rest?

audioghost
09-22-2005, 12:40 AM
I'd give in, this isn't going to go away....and yes, the state makes money off the team....tourism, people from South Dakota and North Dakota flock to the Dome every Sunday...plus there is out of state fans from Wisconsin and Iowa that come, not to forget many of the fans on this site are from out of state...it would bring revenue to the community, and I guarentee once the Vikes got this, that Wilf would be petitioning to get a Super Bowl in Minnesota, and I'd bet we'd get it! The revenues from that would be insane compared to a regular season game!

audioghost
09-22-2005, 12:41 AM
Plus 75 cents for every 100 dollars you spend!!!? Thats not unreasonable by any means!!!

Top_Speed
09-22-2005, 12:50 AM
So retracting roof stadium back on? open air snuffed?
What's the latest for a NY fan not in the local loop?

As said in 1 of my emails w/ Josh the viking fan (posted on Viking.com about 3 mos. ago) I'm willing to pony up, (he thought that was funny, a NYer willing to pony up for the new proposed Purple Home).

I fly in for at least one home game a year and would be willing to contribute. How much? ??hmmm How about a fund for us outside (MN) fans to contribute, maybe get some spiffs like discount or upgraded tixs? I'm sure a (contrib) level thing could be worked out for $ coming in from outsiders (or you Minni haha home folks). Didn't I see a place called Minni hahah falls? (?spelling) probably, just excuse the typos, I type pretty fast.

...well, I'm excited about a new Viking home that has class and style, no cutting corners either! This one has to last, if we have to personally pony up some, so be it!

Just my 2cents
KJ (speed)

smootpepper
09-22-2005, 12:55 AM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

I agree with all of you, I want a stadium.

But you have to see it from another's point of view, would you want to pay for something you could care less about? Especially while your child's school is under funded?


What I want to know is, are sports teams beneficial or a burden on society? What I mean is, in the “Big Picture�, does the state make money off of the teams (jobs, taxes, state appeal), or does the cost of the stadium far out weigh the rest?


That should be easy to answer, Look at the metrodome. It was paid off in a short amount of time from the revenue it generated. Look at it this way. lets say the vikings leave, along with there 100 mil a year payroll (just an example). Thats 100 mil right there they lose in income tax money alone. Now look at the tax that is on each ticket sold, times that by 68,000 then times that by 8 and they just lost out on that much money. How about the concessions that are sold, more tax dollars gone. Look at all the charity organizations that players start in the community, those are gone too. How about fans from other towns that travel to the twin cities and spend there money at hotels, car rentals, mall of america, food joints, and that type of stuff.

Trust me, a sports franchise is something that helps the economy big time.

whackthepack
09-22-2005, 12:58 AM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

I agree with all of you, I want a stadium.

But you have to see it from another's point of view, would you want to pay for something you could care less about? Especially while your child's school is under funded?


What I want to know is, are sports teams beneficial or a burden on society? What I mean is, in the “Big Picture�, does the state make money off of the teams (jobs, taxes, state appeal), or does the cost of the stadium far out weigh the rest?


The United States spends more money on education than any other country in the world, yet we finish last in education when compared to the other 12 industrialized countries.

Bush signed the largest Education funding increase in the history of the US, and people ignore it?

Minnesota just agreed to increase spending on education this last session (huge increase), people don't know that or have forgotten already.

When do we stop throwing money at education, and really try to fix it.

PurplePackerEater
09-22-2005, 12:59 AM
"smootpepper" wrote:

"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

I agree with all of you, I want a stadium.

But you have to see it from another's point of view, would you want to pay for something you could care less about? Especially while your child's school is under funded?


What I want to know is, are sports teams beneficial or a burden on society? What I mean is, in the “Big Picture�, does the state make money off of the teams (jobs, taxes, state appeal), or does the cost of the stadium far out weigh the rest?


That should be easy to answer, Look at the metrodome. It was paid off in a short amount of time from the revenue it generated. Look at it this way. lets say the vikings leave, along with there 100 mil a year payroll (just an example). Thats 100 mil right there they lose in income tax money alone. Now look at the tax that is on each ticket sold, times that by 68,000 then times that by 8 and they just lost out on that much money. How about the concessions that are sold, more tax dollars gone. Look at all the charity organizations that players start in the community, those are gone too. How about fans from other towns that travel to the twin cities and spend there money at hotels, car rentals, mall of america, food joints, and that type of stuff.

Trust me, a sports franchise is something that helps the economy big time.That is what I figured. But why is this never mentioned?? That would be my #1 selling point if I was Wilf.

audioghost
09-22-2005, 01:00 AM
Look, all I know is a new stadium is needed and if we don't get one, we will have to say bye bye to the Vikes, which is something I never wanna do!

PurplePackerEater
09-22-2005, 01:08 AM
Here's an article from the Star Tribune that I read in the clinic waiting room today(took me a little while to find it online). This is just to show ya the "other side".

http://www.startribune.com/stories/357/5626146.html




Nick Coleman: Could Zygi be giving us the business?
Nick Coleman, Star Tribune
September 21, 2005 NICK0921


I didn't believe in the Tooth Fairy until Tuesday, when I saw him up in Anoka County, amid the duck swamps. He looked a little like George Whipple, the guy who always said not to squeeze the Charmin. But he wasn't Whipple. He was Wilf.

Zygi Wilf.

I drove up Anoka way because I was suspicious of a plan being unveiled by Anoka County and the Minnesota Vikings to build a $700 million stadium in Blaine, with up to $400 million coming from public money. Shame on me.

I have always prayed for pro sports owners who would put the needs of Minnesota families above the needs of their own business interests. And now, at last, we have one.

Bless you, Zygi.

Zygi Wilf is a developer from New Jersey who bought the Vikings for $600 million and has shaken hands on the Blaine deal. But he doesn't want a new stadium for himself.

He wants it for our families. Yes, for the kids.

He wants it so we can keep Purple Pride alive and make sure our descendants hear how their forefathers wrecked the living-room furniture in those bleak Decembers and Januaries of yore when the Vikings blew big games like clockwork.

"You have something special," he said at Tuesday's news conference, heavily attended by lobbyists. "I don't mean just the team. I mean the people."

I was blushing. Here was a man who understood me and my people, and was asking for nothing from us, other than the $400 million.

Zygi said he hadn't known of the "tremendous responsibility" that came with owning the Vikings until he "witnessed the passion of the fans."

But now, after a couple of weeks of booing Daunte Culpepper, he gets us. And to show how much he gets us now, Zygi introduced the old duck hunter: Bud Grant.

There he was, the legendary Vikings coach, standing stoically in a corner, arms folded across his chest, looking as glum as Mike Tice in the fourth quarter.

"You can see the light in Bud's eyes when I mention playing football in the nice outdoors again," said Zygi, who has not waited for a bus in Minnesota in January. Zygi thanked Bud for "his guidance," which "helped solidify my resolve" to selflessly accept millions from the taxpayers.

I looked around the room to see if Bronko Nagurski and Bernie Bierman were waiting to be introduced. They must have been in the buffet line next door, where the lobbyists were feeding on beans and dogs.

"Yes, the Vikings are privately owned," Zygi said, lowering his voice as if he were revealing a secret. Despite the burden of ownership, he continued, he likes to think of himself as "a guardian of what I call a semi-institution." The Vikings are "part of our fiber," he said. "Thanks very much for allowing me to be part of this."

This was beautiful stuff. Purple tears were beginning to form on my cheeks. The Vikings, a semi-institution? Why, this was semi-poetry.

I started to choke up, remembering 1970 and Super Bowl IV when my dad smashed the sofa. And all the shattered furniture that came later. The Vikings are not only part of my fiber, they are also the reason I buy semi-institutional steel furniture.

Now here was Zygi, calling the Vikings "a storied franchise" and telling us his only concern is to preserve it all for us. He has not bought the Vikings because it makes sense as a business proposition and because Anoka County has been offering keys to the public coffers! No, those are accidental parts of the deal. He is doing this for us, this marvelous man!

Zygi mentioned the University of Minnesota Gophers and the Minnesota Twins several times Tuesday, talking about how they, too, are part of our fiber and supporting their bids for new stadiums. So the Z-Man was saying that $2 billion for three new stadiums is not about greed or the incessant demands of big cigars and big interests for a piece of the public pie. It is about our fiber. It is about our family values.

And a new Vikings stadium, he said, will "be a wonderful opportunity to be utilized for families."

Again, great. Just great. Minnesota families need opportunities to utilize. Decent upper-deck seats to a Vikings game cost $72, meaning it takes about $300 for a family of four to see our semi-institution. Man, that's a lot of utilization.

But cheaper than buying a new sofa.

Nick Coleman is at ncoleman@startribune.com.

smootpepper
09-22-2005, 01:09 AM
If I did my math right,

This is based of 2003 ticket price average and attendance.

Now this is just from ticket sales

Average Ticket Cost $64.00
Average Attendance 64,179 (year 513,437)
Sales Tax at current 6.5% (Rochester Average, Cities is what 6.0%?)
Tax revenue $2,135,897.92

Considering that is Sept through Dec thats a lot of cash. Now tack on the other entertainment that fills these venues in the offseason or during away games. Thats even more cash. I bet through the corse of a year, with all the events held at a stadium like this would be well over 10 million a year in tax dollars generated just by having a place like this. Remember, this is just ticket prices and taxes on them.

MensaTice
09-22-2005, 01:16 AM
Nick Coleman is the most left-wing piece of crap out there. My brother, who interned for a democrat representative hates how left Coleman is. That guy opposes everything that could ever better the community here. IF money doesn't go directly into the hands of the homeless, this a-hole will write a cloumn about how terrible it is. Nevermind that the stadium will help the entire economy in Minnesota. Don't ever read that guy and please don't ever post one of his articles on this great site again.

PurplePackerEater
09-22-2005, 01:22 AM
"MensaTice" wrote:

Nick Coleman is the most left-wing piece of crap out there. My brother, who interned for a democrat representative hates how left Coleman is. That guy opposes everything that could ever better the community here. IF money doesn't go directly into the hands of the homeless, this a-hole will write a cloumn about how terrible it is. Nevermind that the stadium will help the entire economy in Minnesota. Don't ever read that guy and please don't ever post one of his articles on this great site again.

LOL

I told you I was stuck in a clinic waiting room (for two hours!) :lol:

smootpepper
09-22-2005, 01:30 AM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

Here's an article from the Star Tribune that I read in the clinic waiting room today(took me a little while to find it online). This is just to show ya the "other side".

http://www.startribune.com/stories/357/5626146.html




Nick Coleman: Could Zygi be giving us the business?
Nick Coleman, Star Tribune
September 21, 2005 NICK0921


I didn't believe in the Tooth Fairy until Tuesday, when I saw him up in Anoka County, amid the duck swamps. He looked a little like George Whipple, the guy who always said not to squeeze the Charmin. But he wasn't Whipple. He was Wilf.

Zygi Wilf.

I drove up Anoka way because I was suspicious of a plan being unveiled by Anoka County and the Minnesota Vikings to build a $700 million stadium in Blaine, with up to $400 million coming from public money. Shame on me.

I have always prayed for pro sports owners who would put the needs of Minnesota families above the needs of their own business interests. And now, at last, we have one.

Bless you, Zygi.

Zygi Wilf is a developer from New Jersey who bought the Vikings for $600 million and has shaken hands on the Blaine deal. But he doesn't want a new stadium for himself.

He wants it for our families. Yes, for the kids.

He wants it so we can keep Purple Pride alive and make sure our descendants hear how their forefathers wrecked the living-room furniture in those bleak Decembers and Januaries of yore when the Vikings blew big games like clockwork.

"You have something special," he said at Tuesday's news conference, heavily attended by lobbyists. "I don't mean just the team. I mean the people."

I was blushing. Here was a man who understood me and my people, and was asking for nothing from us, other than the $400 million.

Zygi said he hadn't known of the "tremendous responsibility" that came with owning the Vikings until he "witnessed the passion of the fans."

But now, after a couple of weeks of booing Daunte Culpepper, he gets us. And to show how much he gets us now, Zygi introduced the old duck hunter: Bud Grant.

There he was, the legendary Vikings coach, standing stoically in a corner, arms folded across his chest, looking as glum as Mike Tice in the fourth quarter.

"You can see the light in Bud's eyes when I mention playing football in the nice outdoors again," said Zygi, who has not waited for a bus in Minnesota in January. Zygi thanked Bud for "his guidance," which "helped solidify my resolve" to selflessly accept millions from the taxpayers.

I looked around the room to see if Bronko Nagurski and Bernie Bierman were waiting to be introduced. They must have been in the buffet line next door, where the lobbyists were feeding on beans and dogs.

"Yes, the Vikings are privately owned," Zygi said, lowering his voice as if he were revealing a secret. Despite the burden of ownership, he continued, he likes to think of himself as "a guardian of what I call a semi-institution." The Vikings are "part of our fiber," he said. "Thanks very much for allowing me to be part of this."

This was beautiful stuff. Purple tears were beginning to form on my cheeks. The Vikings, a semi-institution? Why, this was semi-poetry.

I started to choke up, remembering 1970 and Super Bowl IV when my dad smashed the sofa. And all the shattered furniture that came later. The Vikings are not only part of my fiber, they are also the reason I buy semi-institutional steel furniture.

Now here was Zygi, calling the Vikings "a storied franchise" and telling us his only concern is to preserve it all for us. He has not bought the Vikings because it makes sense as a business proposition and because Anoka County has been offering keys to the public coffers! No, those are accidental parts of the deal. He is doing this for us, this marvelous man!

Zygi mentioned the University of Minnesota Gophers and the Minnesota Twins several times Tuesday, talking about how they, too, are part of our fiber and supporting their bids for new stadiums. So the Z-Man was saying that $2 billion for three new stadiums is not about greed or the incessant demands of big cigars and big interests for a piece of the public pie. It is about our fiber. It is about our family values.

And a new Vikings stadium, he said, will "be a wonderful opportunity to be utilized for families."

Again, great. Just great. Minnesota families need opportunities to utilize. Decent upper-deck seats to a Vikings game cost $72, meaning it takes about $300 for a family of four to see our semi-institution. Man, that's a lot of utilization.

But cheaper than buying a new sofa.

Nick Coleman is at ncoleman@startribune.com.

Hmmm, Looks like I should add on to my esitmate for tax dollars created from breaking furniture.

This guy is a puts. I cant wait for election time to vote some of these A-holes out of office. They cant even agree on a state budget, lets get rid of the vikings and twins and see how much that state budget drops.

Ohh, its part of our fibre. Lets see him be sarcastic about it when they pack up and leave the state.

mnjamie
09-22-2005, 05:57 AM
Little side note on this whole subject:


WEDNESDAY NOTES
* For those who wondered why the Vikings would be talking a retractable roof stadium when Zygi Wilf had never entertained that thought before, VU has been told the roof was a compromise between the two sides. Wilf said he favored an open-air stadium, but Anoka County officials want a facility that can be used year-round. The option of a roof was viewed as compromise for both sides.


http://vikings.scout.com/2/441759.html



Looks like Wilfi wanted to go a little cheaper after all, but Anoka county talked him into the retracable roof. Ineresting???

spdolphs
09-22-2005, 02:14 PM
Those in the Minnesota Legislature that oppose the Vikes Stadium are basically just mad that it's not their idea. They won't get any credit for it. Never mind that it expands and grows the economy. A facility like the proposed stadium and surrounding businesses would be a huge boost and create lots of new tax revenue. The Twin Cities area is growing fast, and I have no problem helping fund all three stadiums to show that we are on the move. How many new business will come to the area, and how many existing ones will expand? New jobs? I think this is a WIN WIN WIN for everyone....unless you're a hockey fan..... :lol:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/395/511/320/ziggy3.jpg

Del Rio
09-22-2005, 02:18 PM
How many Vike fans are there in the world? Can donations be given? Maybe they can send a brick from the old building to the fans that donate. I mean every little bit may help.

Because it sounds like Minnesota isn't going to pass anything to approve a tax increase. Someone told me before that part of the problem is when they do the tax increase it stays in place even after the stadiums are built.