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Prophet
09-14-2005, 09:42 PM
Meathead is on Notice (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm)
14 Sept. 2005

Though Vikes owner Zygi Wilf didn't mention anyone by name, coach Mike Tice -- and everyone else in the organization -- needs to start thinking about their job security.

Wilf on Tuesday made it clear that he plans to take a more active role in the team that he has purchased.

"I have to be active, (http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5611218.html)" Wilf said, according to The Minneapolis Star Tribune. "No, I'm not going to call the plays. But I'm going to go ahead and make sure that the right people do the right things. I think it's very important that the message is out that the person on the top is watching over them, making sure everything is done right. We're going to try to strive for excellence. I'll try to figure out what it will take for us to be the champs."

It seems that Wilf had an epiphany of sorts while cruising the Twin Cities after Sunday's crushing loss to Tampa.

"I really am the Monday morning quarterback now. [I realized], 'I have to do something about that, don't I?' In all fairness, the way I'm going to deal with that . . . as I contemplated while I was driving around . . . and thinking about what happened, is that I have to be active."

It remains to be seen what Wilf's "activity" will entail. At some teams, owner "activity" is a bad thing. Elsewhere, it can be beneficial.

The key, as league insiders have explained to us in the past, is that the non-football guys need to know what they don't know.

It's simple, but critical. Football looks easier than it is. Smart guys who have been successful in other endeavors assume that they can figure out how to put together an NFL team without specific experience or expertise, especially after they try to engage in, you know, an intelligent conversation with some of the guys who have acquired such experience or expertise.

So that's the challenge for Zagnut, in our view. He must understand the limits of his knowledge and abilities, and defer to the experts whom he employs when it comes to matters of football.

Easier said, in many cases, than done.

GreenBaySlackers
09-14-2005, 09:44 PM
Fassell for HC 2006!

Mr. Purple
09-14-2005, 09:45 PM
Beautiful, Maybe he can light a fire under tice and co's asse$...and if that dosnt work, bring in some people who kno what thier doin. Anyone know any coaches we could pick up next year?

GreenBaySlackers
09-14-2005, 09:48 PM
"WilliamsonOfTroy" wrote:

Beautiful, Maybe he can light a fire under tice and co's asse$...and if that dosnt work, bring in some people who kno what thier doin. Anyone know any coaches we could pick up next year?

the first names that come to my mind are fassell, shanahan (if he gets canned in denver), and Jim Johnson could quit to become a head coach.

audioghost
09-14-2005, 09:53 PM
We needed somebody with a track record....they should have goneout and gotten Green back last summer....or before he went to the Cards....They should give Monte Kiffin the head coaching job, or Charlie Weis...see if he'll leave Notre Dame.....or even Linnehan, he is an offensive guru, cuz we need to face it that Loney is an idiot....

smootpepper
09-14-2005, 09:54 PM
"GreenBaySlackers" wrote:

"WilliamsonOfTroy" wrote:

Beautiful, Maybe he can light a fire under tice and co's asse$...and if that dosnt work, bring in some people who kno what thier doin. Anyone know any coaches we could pick up next year?

the first names that come to my mind are fassell, shanahan (if he gets canned in denver), and Jim Johnson could quit to become a head coach.

Well, if you want boring O, hire fassell, I dont want either shanahan or Johnson. I say we hire the bills D coord, whats his name... Gray? He would get my first vote for head coach.

Ltrey33
09-14-2005, 09:55 PM
Here's to hoping a little pressure on Tice makes him, well, not suck.

Del Rio
09-14-2005, 09:56 PM
Tice has said repetedly he is on the hot seat. He knows he is walking on thin ice.

I'm not sure if that is good or not to pressure him. It seems like when he tries we squeak by, if he figures he is doomed anyway he may not even put forth that effort.

snowinapril
09-14-2005, 09:57 PM
The PTI guys ripped Wilf, saying that he doesn't know enough about football, like a J.Jones, to be involved at that level.

But, I do think that the were taking his involvement out of context. The guy said these comment at a St.Paul Chamber of Commerice meeting. The guy was just saying that he will hold everyone accountable to their job position.

That is how I took it.

He has pride and he doesn't want to be a loser, like 95% of the other NFL owners, they all want to win.

snowinapril
09-14-2005, 10:00 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Tice has said repetedly he is on the hot seat. He knows he is walking on thin ice.

I'm not sure if that is good or not to pressure him. It seems like when he tries we squeak by, if he figures he is doomed anyway he may not even put forth that effort.

Good thought there. It is a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

They asked Tice is the punter on a week to week basis and he said, no, I am the one on a week to week basis. Then he laughed it off, but it seemed like he actually believes that.

pigskinronin
09-14-2005, 10:16 PM
"audioghost" wrote:

We needed somebody with a track record....they should have goneout and gotten Green back last summer....or before he went to the Cards....They should give Monte Kiffin the head coaching job, or Charlie Weis...see if he'll leave Notre Dame.....or even Linnehan, he is an offensive guru, cuz we need to face it that Loney is an idiot....

I've been making a lot of noise about Linehan leaving and Loney taking over. I even starting blaming Loney for the offense last Sunday. Read this article (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/football/nfl/minnesota_vikings/12637949.htm), kind of sheds some light on the coaching process here. Coaching by committee? The players seem to have faith in Loney and how hard he works.

6-KINGS
09-14-2005, 10:18 PM
Great, just what we need, an owner who thinks he knows how to manage and or coach a team.

Well if he keeps this up we'll be in the toilet.

Prophet
09-14-2005, 10:24 PM
"6-KINGS" wrote:

Great, just what we need, an owner who thinks he knows how to manage and or coach a team..

Almost as bad as an O-line coach thinking he knows how to manage and/or coach a team....or was it a used car salesman thinking that having an O-line coach on the cheap was the best solution for the team.

VKG4LFE
09-14-2005, 10:29 PM
I can't believe you people are calling out our coaches after ONE WEEK! Geez, give them a break!

Prophet
09-14-2005, 10:31 PM
I've been calling out Meathead since Redneck appointed him as the interim HC when Denny walked. We should have hired a real coach in the offseason after Denny walked.

Del Rio
09-14-2005, 10:36 PM
"VKG4LFE" wrote:

I can't believe you people are calling out our coaches after ONE WEEK! Geez, give them a break!

I think the coaching has been a question for a few years for some. The poor result of a team with seemingly more to work with may have just pushed some over the edge.

In my opinion which ever team has the most invested wins. If the Vikings were prepared better and had invested more energy, more time, more technique I think they would have won. Unfortunately for Tice and Co. that's up to him to pound those things.

VKG4LFE
09-14-2005, 10:38 PM
I know, I know. Maybe I just blame the players too much cuz they are the ones on the field. Personally I have had no problem with Tice and I never did with Green for that matter. I just think it's funny how this type of stuff comes out after a loss, I can guarantee none of this would have come out had we won!

ultravikingfan
09-14-2005, 10:46 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

He has pride and he doesn't want to be a loser, like 95% of the other NFL owners, they all want to win.

Just curious, who are the other 5%?

"VKG4LFE" wrote:

I can't believe you people are calling out our coaches after ONE WEEK! Geez, give them a break!

Agreed. Even though Tice was in the "Hot Seat" from the beginning, I don't think week 1 is a good indicator of his job status.

Now, by week 3...can his sorry butt so we can still go 13-3!

Prophet
09-14-2005, 10:48 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"snowinapril" wrote:

He has pride and he doesn't want to be a loser, like 95% of the other NFL owners, they all want to win.

Just curious, who are the other 5%?

lmao, I was wondering that too. Maybe Benson is one of them, he would like to see the Saints lose so he can move the team without so much resistance.

snowinapril
09-14-2005, 10:50 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"snowinapril" wrote:

He has pride and he doesn't want to be a loser, like 95% of the other NFL owners, they all want to win.

Just curious, who are the other 5%?

The teams that want to move their teams to other cities. It is not politically correct to name one team because they are in distress.

Of course, it is 100% becuase no one likes to lose but I was just being a smart ass cause it seems there are a few teams that don't care.

VKG4LFE
09-14-2005, 10:51 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"snowinapril" wrote:

He has pride and he doesn't want to be a loser, like 95% of the other NFL owners, they all want to win.

Just curious, who are the other 5%?

"VKG4LFE" wrote:

I can't believe you people are calling out our coaches after ONE WEEK! Geez, give them a break!

Agreed. Even though Tice was in the "Hot Seat" from the beginning, I don't think week 1 is a good indicator of his job status.

Now, by week 3...can his sorry butt so we can still go 13-3!


I don't know, are you satisfied if we go 13-3? lol

6-KINGS
09-14-2005, 10:56 PM
"Prophet" wrote:

"6-KINGS" wrote:

Great, just what we need, an owner who thinks he knows how to manage and or coach a team..

Almost as bad as an O-line coach thinking he knows how to manage and/or coach a team....or was it a used car salesman thinking that having an O-line coach on the cheap was the best solution for the team.

At least the players like Tice.
Oh ya that is right, we wouldn't want the guys that actually play the game to like their coach. That may mean they give extra effort.
We need somebody they hate so they will play harder.
I forgot all about that angle.

Geez, Cullpepper lost the game for us. It happens.
Tice did not call "Fumble toss option" or "Overthrow 64 buttonhook" or "half ass" as a blocking scheme on the run plays.
The players called those and executed them with flair and class.

smootpepper
09-14-2005, 11:04 PM
perfect topic for this.... Cris Carter was just on KFAN and they were talking about Tice. He was asked if Tice is a good coach, and if he could win a super bowl here.

Carters answer: He is still improving, and and that he is a very good coach compared to other coaches in the league. He said with out a doubt Tice can win a super bowl.

He also went on to say that tice is one of the big reason why players like to play here. His players really like him as a coach.

Other comments by Carter.

We have no #1 running back, our team has a bunch of #2's and we shouldnt expect to see a running game this year.

He said he would not have traded moss, said we had the cap space to do what we did on defense and keep moss. "you just cant trade a player like moss, he changes the defense so much like no other player in the NFL."

He said birk being gone for the year is a huge loss as well, but if we had a good running back that can make yards out of nothing or very little like most teams it wouldnt have been as bad.

He still thinks the vikings are better then they were last year and we should be able to get to the super bowl, or at least the NFC championship game.

Del Rio
09-14-2005, 11:10 PM
I could have sworn Carter was on of the ones approving of the trade prior to week 1?

I don't care if they like the guy enough to be there, I'm sure the millions of dollars doesn't help. That doesn't do anything but sell jersey's. I am more concerned with Can this guy get them in position to win? Can he get them ready, and can he out coach our opponents. Those are the only things that really matter.

smootpepper
09-14-2005, 11:14 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

I could have sworn Carter was on of the ones approving of the trade prior to week 1?
I don't care if they like the guy enough to be there, I'm sure the millions of dollars doesn't help. That doesn't do anything but sell jersey's. I am more concerned with Can this guy get them in position to win? Can he get them ready, and can he out coach our opponents. Those are the only things that really matter.

Thats what I thought too, I was going to look into some of his articles to see if that is true or not but I got lazy and decided against it.

VegasLadyJae
09-14-2005, 11:28 PM
I think Carter predicted Moss would be traded because of Red McCombs and the locker room........I don't believe he supported it. He is also correct we could have made a couple of moves, probably Pat Williams for sure...Smoot doubt it. Sharper yes.

Ltrey33
09-14-2005, 11:36 PM
"snowinapril" wrote:

"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"snowinapril" wrote:

He has pride and he doesn't want to be a loser, like 95% of the other NFL owners, they all want to win.

Just curious, who are the other 5%?

The teams that want to move their teams to other cities. It is not politically correct to name one team because they are in distress.

Of course, it is 100% becuase no one likes to lose but I was just being a smart jiggly butt cause it seems there are a few teams that don't care.

I heard the Cardinals owner is a complete jockstrap and doesn't give a s*** about the team. I think I read it in The Life of Reilly one week, so 31/32 that would be....96.8% of the owners.


"6-KINGS" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"6-KINGS" wrote:

Great, just what we need, an owner who thinks he knows how to manage and or coach a team..

Almost as bad as an O-line coach thinking he knows how to manage and/or coach a team....or was it a used car salesman thinking that having an O-line coach on the cheap was the best solution for the team.

At least the players like Tice.
Oh ya that is right, we wouldn't want the guys that actually play the game to like their coach. That may mean they give extra effort.
We need somebody they hate so they will play harder.
I forgot all about that angle.

Geez, Cullpepper lost the game for us. It happens.
Tice did not call "Fumble toss option" or "Overthrow 64 buttonhook" or "half jiggly butt" as a blocking scheme on the run plays.
The players called those and executed them with flair and class.

And you're wrong 6-kings, that was the 3/4 ass blocking scheme, but they didn't run it very well so it only LOOKED half assed. :lol:

Prophet
09-14-2005, 11:38 PM
"6-KINGS" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"6-KINGS" wrote:

Great, just what we need, an owner who thinks he knows how to manage and or coach a team..

Almost as bad as an O-line coach thinking he knows how to manage and/or coach a team....or was it a used car salesman thinking that having an O-line coach on the cheap was the best solution for the team.

At least the players like Tice.
Oh ya that is right, we wouldn't want the guys that actually play the game to like their coach. That may mean they give extra effort.
We need somebody they hate so they will play harder.
I forgot all about that angle.

Geez, Cullpepper lost the game for us. It happens.
Tice did not call "Fumble toss option" or "Overthrow 64 buttonhook" or "half jiggly butt" as a blocking scheme on the run plays.
The players called those and executed them with flair and class.

I never said the players have to hate the coach in order for him to be effective. A coach that has the capacity to make a game plan, adjust the game plan as needed, and has the ability to make decisions on the fly as needed is what I would like to see in the HC. Tice appears to be a nice guy, just not a great coach. Cris Carter mentioned a lot of guys like to play for him, that's great and that is definetly an asset that he brings as HC. He has yet to prove that he can win the games that end up being close and are dictated by the chess-like moves carried out by the coaching staff. He is not the only person to blame, but he is the team leader. Let him learn how to coach on someone elses time. The Vikings have a proud and winning tradition that should not be the training ground for unprepared head coaches.

My gripe on Tice is not due to the first game of the season. It is due to his leading the team to a 23-27 record since he took the helm in the last game of 2001. Demand excellence. Nothing less is acceptable.

VegasLadyJae
09-14-2005, 11:41 PM
Right on Prophet!!!!!!!!!!!!

snowinapril
09-14-2005, 11:51 PM
"Prophet" wrote:


I never said the players have to hate the coach in order for him to be effective. A coach that has the capacity to make a game plan, adjust the game plan as needed, and has the ability to make decisions on the fly as needed is what I would like to see in the HC. Tice appears to be a nice guy, just not a great coach. Cris Carter mentioned a lot of guys like to play for him, that's great and that is definetly an asset that he brings as HC. He has yet to prove that he can win the games that end up being close and are dictated by the chess-like moves carried out by the coaching staff. He is not the only person to blame, but he is the team leader. Let him learn how to coach on someone elses time. The Vikings have a proud and winning tradition that should not be the training ground for unprepared head coaches.

My gripe on Tice is not due to the first game of the season. It is due to his leading the team to a 23-26 record since he took the helm in the last game of 2001. Demand excellence. Nothing less is acceptable.

I think your reasoning is correct.

The only way you can justify having Tice stay on as coach is that he is getting better, he is improving. If not, you got to let him go. This is like we hired him right out of High school and let him coach while getting his degree. That was a bad analogy but you get my point I hope. Now you are trying to tell yourself, he will take control and start doing his job.

Remember TICE was handed a Corvette and has had it since 2001. Many coaches that get a car to drive get a Yugo, SF, Clev, Chi, Ariz, etc.

I know the D has been messed up and that seems to have been the scapegoat for Tice, well, I am not going to buy it when people start saying it is now the Os fault.

V4L
09-14-2005, 11:55 PM
I like Tice.. I hope he remains the coach.. He needs to win a lil more though.. Gimme a 10-6 season and I will be pleased!

snowinapril
09-14-2005, 11:56 PM
That sad part is that like many of you I don't know if I should (support) give him more chances. When they hired him for one more year, I said I will tolerate it and see what happens cause there is not much you and I can do.

I try not to say too much bad shit about Tice but I do like to point out some truths (look like truths to me anyway) sometimes.

I honestly can't think of one thing that stands out in my mind that Tice has done that is good, please point out to me the good. I want to hear it if you got it.

snowinapril
09-14-2005, 11:58 PM
Oh ya, I almost forgot one of my points. People initially hate Parcells, but when they play for another coach, the want to go back to Parcells. Once the player MATURES, they get it. Tough, sometimes REALLY tough love is good. As long as you aren't beating your wife, K-Will, but that is another thread.

singersp
09-15-2005, 12:00 AM
Here is a couple of quotes from the "Looney" article;

"The Vikings committed five turnovers, struggled to establish the run, failed to consistently protect the passer and witnessed a rash of breakdowns in communication and technique."

"Culpepper said he has "tremendous confidence" in Loney, noting that the offense's problems Sunday were due to poor execution."

Now are these results of poor coaching or poor execution? Even though Loney accepts the blame, I'm not 100% sold it's the coaching. I really don't know how the or what the coaches have been teaching these players so it's difficult to sit back & judge one way or the other. I'm leading towards poor execution. I've questioned the offensive play calling the past few years & still think their playbook is either to thin or the pages are stuck together. But regardless of the play that was called, we still failed to execute it properly.
Another thing to keep in mind is even though the Bucks went 5-11 last year they had the no. 5 rated defense & Kiffin their defensive coordinator is one of the elite in the league. He found our offensive weaknesses & exploited it. That's what a good coach will do.
I for one wouldn't start tossing out coaches after just 1 game. Besides, who are you going to replace them with that know are system? If their unemployed right now, their unemployed for a reason.

6-KINGS
09-15-2005, 12:16 AM
"Prophet" wrote:

"6-KINGS" wrote:

"Prophet" wrote:

"6-KINGS" wrote:

Great, just what we need, an owner who thinks he knows how to manage and or coach a team..

Almost as bad as an O-line coach thinking he knows how to manage and/or coach a team....or was it a used car salesman thinking that having an O-line coach on the cheap was the best solution for the team.

At least the players like Tice.
Oh ya that is right, we wouldn't want the guys that actually play the game to like their coach. That may mean they give extra effort.
We need somebody they hate so they will play harder.
I forgot all about that angle.

Geez, Cullpepper lost the game for us. It happens.
Tice did not call "Fumble toss option" or "Overthrow 64 buttonhook" or "half jiggly butt" as a blocking scheme on the run plays.
The players called those and executed them with flair and class.

I never said the players have to hate the coach in order for him to be effective. A coach that has the capacity to make a game plan, adjust the game plan as needed, and has the ability to make decisions on the fly as needed is what I would like to see in the HC. Tice appears to be a nice guy, just not a great coach. Cris Carter mentioned a lot of guys like to play for him, that's great and that is definetly an asset that he brings as HC. He has yet to prove that he can win the games that end up being close and are dictated by the chess-like moves carried out by the coaching staff. He is not the only person to blame, but he is the team leader. Let him learn how to coach on someone elses time. The Vikings have a proud and winning tradition that should not be the training ground for unprepared head coaches.

My gripe on Tice is not due to the first game of the season. It is due to his leading the team to a 23-27 record since he took the helm in the last game of 2001. Demand excellence. Nothing less is acceptable.

Ok then.......I'll kill him with a kaiser blade, some folks calls it a sling blade but I call it a kaiser blade. U-huh

:wink:

VKG4LFE
09-15-2005, 01:39 AM
"snowinapril" wrote:

That sad part is that like many of you I don't know if I should (support) give him more chances. When they hired him for one more year, I said I will tolerate it and see what happens cause there is not much you and I can do.

I try not to say too much bad pooh about Tice but I do like to point out some truths (look like truths to me anyway) sometimes.

I honestly can't think of one thing that stands out in my mind that Tice has done that is good, please point out to me the good. I want to hear it if you got it.


He took a team (that had just lost to Washington the week before, with the superstar WR walking off the field early and having a ton of controversy not only in the locker room but in the news) into Lambeau field against an arch rival that had beaten him twice earlier in the year and put an @$$ whoopin' on the place! How's that? Did it fit your criteria?

PurpleTide
09-15-2005, 01:56 AM
I Like Biscuits U-Hmmm

PurpleTide
09-15-2005, 02:01 AM
Actually I think we have to let Tice pull this season together. It's his team and I believe we will get better as the season goes. Rome wasn't built in a day, so we will get it going and start to being a dominent team. We will continue to improve every game.

VKG4LFE
09-15-2005, 02:02 AM
If we improve everygame then will we win out the rest of the year?? lol jk