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View Full Version : Moss-less Vikings will be better than Raiders?



raiderbill70
08-26-2005, 08:36 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9069498/

Later.

ultravikingfan
08-26-2005, 08:39 PM
There is no doubt in my military mind that we will be better! :wink:

Prophet
08-26-2005, 08:41 PM
This is a ridiculous media slant that is annoying. Moss is a great receiver and the Vikings have made improvements to their team. The success or failure of the team cannot be directly related to whether Moss is there or Moss isn't there. There are too many confounding variables. These 'journalists' need to use their brain before writing this garbage.

raiderbill70
08-26-2005, 08:45 PM
As Vikings fans, I'll ask you......was Moss really that much of a distraction, because I'll tell you this much I, for one, am growing tired of hearing about how much of a distraction Moss was to your team.

How much of a distraction was Moss?

1998: Randy Moss' rookie year he caught passes for 1313 yards and 17 TDs in the regular season. In the Vikings' two post season games he averaged one TD and 74 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Falcons 30-27 in the NFCC.

1999: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1413 yards and 11 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1.5 TD's and 157.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Rams 49-37 in the NFC DIV PO.

2000: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1437 yards and 15 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1 TD and 69.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Giants 41-0 in the NFCC.

2004: In the regular season Moss accounted for 767 yards in 13 games and 13 TDs. In historical fashion, the Vikings' two post season games....Moss averaged 1 TD and 60 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Eagles 27-14 in the NFC DIV PO.

November of 1999, Moss was fined $10,000 for excessive verbal abuse of a side judge.

January 2000, Moss was initially fined $40,000 for squirting a field judge with a bottle of water...the fine was later reduced to $25,000.

October 2000, Moss tugged on an official's arm and bumped his facemask to the official's hat got him a $40,000 fine which is later reduced to $30,000.

In 2004, we're all aware of the mock-moons over Green Bay costing Mr. Moss $10,000 in "straight cash homie".

Now I listed instances in which the Vikings were in the playoffs, was it Moss' antics that cost the Vikings those games? You be the judge.

Later.

michaelmazid
08-26-2005, 08:45 PM
raiders suck and they have no chance of winning in the afc. we will be at least 10-6 this and I wish we still had randy. we would be 12-4 for sure if he was still around.

COJOMAY
08-26-2005, 08:46 PM
Excellent article from a man speaking with is brains rather than his heart.

ShanePurpleBlood
08-26-2005, 09:07 PM
That was a good article. The Raiders will improve this year. Probalby wild card. They are a year or two from meeting the Vikings in the Super Bowl, after the Vikes have racked up a Super Bowl win or two.

hic-agvike77
08-26-2005, 09:34 PM
Definatly agree with Shane it was a good article. I think Vikings will easily be better than the Raiders, Collins will have 4-6 good games the rest will be medioaker or really bad he's never shown any consistancy.

While I do think Moss is one of the best recivers in the league and not to take away anything that he has done cause he helped us win a lot of games, but I am kinda glad hes gone. It just seemed like the entire sucsess of the team revolved around Randy, if he didn't score within the first 2 quarters we were screwed. It will be interesting to see how Culp does without having to worry about getting Randy going. I think it will help Him and the team a lot.

happy camper
08-26-2005, 09:34 PM
"raiderbill70" wrote:

As Vikings fans, I'll ask you......was Moss really that much of a distraction, because I'll tell you this much I, for one, am growing tired of hearing about how much of a distraction Moss was to your team.

How much of a distraction was Moss?

1998: Randy Moss' rookie year he caught passes for 1313 yards and 17 TDs in the regular season. In the Vikings' two post season games he averaged one TD and 74 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Falcons 30-27 in the NFCC.

1999: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1413 yards and 11 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1.5 TD's and 157.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Rams 49-37 in the NFC DIV PO.

2000: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1437 yards and 15 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1 TD and 69.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Giants 41-0 in the NFCC.

2004: In the regular season Moss accounted for 767 yards in 13 games and 13 TDs. In historical fashion, the Vikings' two post season games....Moss averaged 1 TD and 60 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Eagles 27-14 in the NFC DIV PO.

November of 1999, Moss was fined $10,000 for excessive verbal abuse of a side judge.

January 2000, Moss was initially fined $40,000 for squirting a field judge with a bottle of water...the fine was later reduced to $25,000.

October 2000, Moss tugged on an official's arm and bumped his facemask to the official's hat got him a $40,000 fine which is later reduced to $30,000.

In 2004, we're all aware of the mock-moons over Green Bay costing Mr. Moss $10,000 in "straight cash homie".

Now I listed instances in which the Vikings were in the playoffs, was it Moss' antics that cost the Vikings those games? You be the judge.

Later.

is there a stat for the times the offense had a bad series, and while everyone was looking at photos and talking to coaches, moss went and sat by himself on the other bench? (ive been to a few games, seen it happen)

is there a stat for how many times moss ran at half speed after the first quarter because the offense wasnt doing well and he didnt get enough balls thrown his way?

where in your stats does it show the time he walked back to the line of srimmage during a hurrey up offense?(against the bears last season, at chicago. note: it may have been a different game, but im pretty sure)

how bout the time he jumped halfway in the air and halfassed trying to catch the ball, and then it fell into the arms of the defender? (i think this was against carolina, a couple years ago, right after he said "i play when i wanna play")

take the stats and shove 'em.

simply, the vikings are better whithout him, and the raiders are better with him. but just wait until after the honneymoon season to evaluate moss' character in oakland (see: terrel owens first year vs his second year in philly.)

happy camper
08-26-2005, 09:38 PM
i would also like to point out that the vikings have not been a good come from behind team in years past. why? because when he were down by 20, teams instantly knew where we were gonna go. to moss. they were able to put us in a box and bury us because they knew who we'd target.

what was the one come from behind game we had last year? against the lions. who wasnt playing? moss.

hic-agvike77
08-26-2005, 09:38 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

"raiderbill70" wrote:

As Vikings fans, I'll ask you......was Moss really that much of a distraction, because I'll tell you this much I, for one, am growing tired of hearing about how much of a distraction Moss was to your team.

How much of a distraction was Moss?

1998: Randy Moss' rookie year he caught passes for 1313 yards and 17 TDs in the regular season. In the Vikings' two post season games he averaged one TD and 74 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Falcons 30-27 in the NFCC.

1999: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1413 yards and 11 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1.5 TD's and 157.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Rams 49-37 in the NFC DIV PO.

2000: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1437 yards and 15 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1 TD and 69.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Giants 41-0 in the NFCC.

2004: In the regular season Moss accounted for 767 yards in 13 games and 13 TDs. In historical fashion, the Vikings' two post season games....Moss averaged 1 TD and 60 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Eagles 27-14 in the NFC DIV PO.

November of 1999, Moss was fined $10,000 for excessive verbal abuse of a side judge.

January 2000, Moss was initially fined $40,000 for squirting a field judge with a bottle of water...the fine was later reduced to $25,000.

October 2000, Moss tugged on an official's arm and bumped his facemask to the official's hat got him a $40,000 fine which is later reduced to $30,000.

In 2004, we're all aware of the mock-moons over Green Bay costing Mr. Moss $10,000 in "straight cash homie".

Now I listed instances in which the Vikings were in the playoffs, was it Moss' antics that cost the Vikings those games? You be the judge.

Later.

is there a stat for the times the offense had a bad series, and while everyone was looking at photos and talking to coaches, moss went and sat by himself on the other bench? (ive been to a few games, seen it happen)

is there a stat for how many times moss ran at half speed after the first quarter because the offense wasnt doing well and he didnt get enough balls thrown his way?

where in your stats does it show the time he walked back to the line of srimmage during a hurrey up offense?(against the bears last season, at chicago. note: it may have been a different game, but im pretty sure)

how bout the time he jumped halfway in the air and halfassed trying to catch the ball, and then it fell into the arms of the defender? (i think this was against carolina, a couple years ago, right after he said "i play when i wanna play")

take the stats and shove 'em.

simply, the vikings are better whithout him, and the raiders are better with him. but just wait until after the honneymoon season to evaluate moss' character in oakland (see: terrel owens first year vs his second year in philly.)



Well put!

akvikefan89
08-26-2005, 09:53 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

"raiderbill70" wrote:

As Vikings fans, I'll ask you......was Moss really that much of a distraction, because I'll tell you this much I, for one, am growing tired of hearing about how much of a distraction Moss was to your team.

How much of a distraction was Moss?

1998: Randy Moss' rookie year he caught passes for 1313 yards and 17 TDs in the regular season. In the Vikings' two post season games he averaged one TD and 74 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Falcons 30-27 in the NFCC.

1999: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1413 yards and 11 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1.5 TD's and 157.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Rams 49-37 in the NFC DIV PO.

2000: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1437 yards and 15 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1 TD and 69.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Giants 41-0 in the NFCC.

2004: In the regular season Moss accounted for 767 yards in 13 games and 13 TDs. In historical fashion, the Vikings' two post season games....Moss averaged 1 TD and 60 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Eagles 27-14 in the NFC DIV PO.

November of 1999, Moss was fined $10,000 for excessive verbal abuse of a side judge.

January 2000, Moss was initially fined $40,000 for squirting a field judge with a bottle of water...the fine was later reduced to $25,000.

October 2000, Moss tugged on an official's arm and bumped his facemask to the official's hat got him a $40,000 fine which is later reduced to $30,000.

In 2004, we're all aware of the mock-moons over Green Bay costing Mr. Moss $10,000 in "straight cash homie".

Now I listed instances in which the Vikings were in the playoffs, was it Moss' antics that cost the Vikings those games? You be the judge.

Later.

is there a stat for the times the offense had a bad series, and while everyone was looking at photos and talking to coaches, moss went and sat by himself on the other bench? (ive been to a few games, seen it happen)

is there a stat for how many times moss ran at half speed after the first quarter because the offense wasnt doing well and he didnt get enough balls thrown his way?

where in your stats does it show the time he walked back to the line of srimmage during a hurrey up offense?(against the bears last season, at chicago. note: it may have been a different game, but im pretty sure)

how bout the time he jumped halfway in the air and halfassed trying to catch the ball, and then it fell into the arms of the defender? (i think this was against carolina, a couple years ago, right after he said "i play when i wanna play")

take the stats and shove 'em.

simply, the vikings are better whithout him, and the raiders are better with him. but just wait until after the honneymoon season to evaluate moss' character in oakland (see: terrel owens first year vs his second year in philly.)
You saved me from making a post. I was going to say the exact same thing. :lol:

whackthepack
08-26-2005, 09:58 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

"raiderbill70" wrote:

As Vikings fans, I'll ask you......was Moss really that much of a distraction, because I'll tell you this much I, for one, am growing tired of hearing about how much of a distraction Moss was to your team.

How much of a distraction was Moss?

1998: Randy Moss' rookie year he caught passes for 1313 yards and 17 TDs in the regular season. In the Vikings' two post season games he averaged one TD and 74 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Falcons 30-27 in the NFCC.

1999: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1413 yards and 11 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1.5 TD's and 157.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Rams 49-37 in the NFC DIV PO.

2000: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1437 yards and 15 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1 TD and 69.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Giants 41-0 in the NFCC.

2004: In the regular season Moss accounted for 767 yards in 13 games and 13 TDs. In historical fashion, the Vikings' two post season games....Moss averaged 1 TD and 60 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Eagles 27-14 in the NFC DIV PO.

November of 1999, Moss was fined $10,000 for excessive verbal abuse of a side judge.

January 2000, Moss was initially fined $40,000 for squirting a field judge with a bottle of water...the fine was later reduced to $25,000.

October 2000, Moss tugged on an official's arm and bumped his facemask to the official's hat got him a $40,000 fine which is later reduced to $30,000.

In 2004, we're all aware of the mock-moons over Green Bay costing Mr. Moss $10,000 in "straight cash homie".

Now I listed instances in which the Vikings were in the playoffs, was it Moss' antics that cost the Vikings those games? You be the judge.

Later.

is there a stat for the times the offense had a bad series, and while everyone was looking at photos and talking to coaches, moss went and sat by himself on the other bench? (ive been to a few games, seen it happen)

is there a stat for how many times moss ran at half speed after the first quarter because the offense wasnt doing well and he didnt get enough balls thrown his way?

where in your stats does it show the time he walked back to the line of srimmage during a hurrey up offense?(against the bears last season, at chicago. note: it may have been a different game, but im pretty sure)

how bout the time he jumped halfway in the air and halfassed trying to catch the ball, and then it fell into the arms of the defender? (i think this was against carolina, a couple years ago, right after he said "i play when i wanna play")

take the stats and shove 'em.

simply, the vikings are better whithout him, and the raiders are better with him. but just wait until after the honneymoon season to evaluate moss' character in oakland (see: terrel owens first year vs his second year in philly.)


Also add that before the NFC Championship game against the Giants, Moss got into an argument with the security guards because they would not let his buddies onto the field during the game. He was screaming at everybody, and when he did not get his way he pouted and had one of his worst games as a pro.

And it says right in the article that he was causing problems in the locker room!

magicci
08-26-2005, 10:22 PM
i dont think the raiders will make the playoffs. look at the confrence too many good teams. and i also think the vikes will be better then them.

JDogg926
08-26-2005, 10:28 PM
I thought I'd already posted this, but I don't see it so here goes again:

I see the Raiders starting out hot, like 5-1, 6-0 maybe. Everyone will be talking Raiders SB, but then the bad defense catches up with them as their offense actually struggles through a couple games and they lose 3-4 in a row. They can't recover from the slide and finish at 8-8, 9-7 at best missing the playoffs, and finishing 3rd in their division behind the Chiefs and Chargers.

The Vikes, on the other hand I see starting similar, but not as strong (I have a bad feeling about the Atlanta game). Maybe 4-2, 5-2, but remaining consistent throughout the year, finishing with 11-12 wins and securing a first round bye in the playoffs, possibly homefield advantage throughout.

akvikefan89
08-26-2005, 10:32 PM
I see the Raiders going 7-9. You just can't win more with that bad of a defense IMO. The offense is very good, but not good enough to carry the team to playoffs. You raider fans can play patty-cake with Moss for a year, but wait till he gets pouty.

happy camper
08-26-2005, 10:44 PM
a player like moss will help you win games, no doubt. at best, i see the raiders winning 8 games. they're in the toughest division in my estimation. (raiders, chargers, cheifs, and broncos)

they'll win a few games. 3-4 of them will be blowouts, probably. offense wins games, not championships. i think the vikings have proven that.

pigskinronin
08-26-2005, 11:05 PM
I don't think I can agree with the statement that the Vikings are a better team w/o Moss. It's been said over and over again --- but really try to imagine the team we have now... with Moss on it. We would be minus Williamson, but would have probably grabbed some other defensive stud with the 7th pick.

Is the VIKING team better than last years? Without a doubt in my mind.

I live in California and see pretty much all the Raider games on tv. To me... they look a lot like the Vikings --- at least the formula they just got away from (great offense, terrible defense). The major difference - Kerry Collins is nowhere near the playmaker Culpepper is. Also, IMO the Raider defense will be worse than the Vikings' defense of recent years (if that's possible).

The Raiders will miss the playoffs; they will be 3rd in the division behind Chargers and Chiefs. I don't see them getting a wild card due to strength of the AFC.

ShanePurpleBlood
08-26-2005, 11:14 PM
"pigskinronin" wrote:

I don't think I can agree with the statement that the Vikings are a better team w/o Moss. It's been said over and over again --- but really try to imagine the team we have now... with Moss on it. We would be minus Williamson, but would have probably grabbed some other defensive stud with the 7th pick.

Is the VIKING team better than last years? Without a doubt in my mind.

I live in California and see pretty much all the Raider games on tv. To me... they look a lot like the Vikings --- at least the formula they just got away from (great offense, terrible defense). The major difference - Kerry Collins is nowhere near the playmaker Culpepper is. Also, IMO the Raider defense will be worse than the Vikings' defense of recent years (if that's possible).

If we didn't trade Moss we wouldn't have the seventh pick to pick a defensive stud. I still think the Raiders can make the wild card spot.
I think we will be better this year than the last few.
The Raiders will miss the playoffs; they will be 3rd in the division behind Chargers and Chiefs. I don't see them getting a wild card due to strength of the AFC.

pigskinronin
08-26-2005, 11:24 PM
"ShanePurpleBlood" wrote:


If we didn't trade Moss we wouldn't have the seventh pick to pick a defensive stud. I still think the Raiders can make the wild card spot.
I think we will be better this year than the last few.


Great point. I missed that one. Maybe no Travis Taylor then --- LB free agency pick up instead? Just random, useless thinking I'm doing.

I'm very happy with our team. Please don't take my comments wrong. I'm one of the group that's loves the Williamson pick over Williams. I'm excited about what we are seeing from Travis Taylor --- being aggressive and fighting for those extra yds!

JDogg926
08-26-2005, 11:31 PM
"pigskinronin" wrote:

I don't think I can agree with the statement that the Vikings are a better team w/o Moss. It's been said over and over again --- but really try to imagine the team we have now... with Moss on it. We would be minus Williamson, but would have probably grabbed some other defensive stud with the 7th pick.

Is the VIKING team better than last years? Without a doubt in my mind.

I live in California and see pretty much all the Raider games on tv. To me... they look a lot like the Vikings --- at least the formula they just got away from (great offense, terrible defense). The major difference - Kerry Collins is nowhere near the playmaker Culpepper is. Also, IMO the Raider defense will be worse than the Vikings' defense of recent years (if that's possible).

The Raiders will miss the playoffs; they will be 3rd in the division behind Chargers and Chiefs. I don't see them getting a wild card due to strength of the AFC.

Agreed we would be better w/ Moss, but we wouldn't have had the #7 pick. We still probably would have got E.James at #18. But the real question was are the Raiders or Vikings better now. I think the Vikings are much better than the Raiders now. I also think it may have been one of those rare trades that actually make both teams better than they were.

pigskinronin
08-26-2005, 11:50 PM
Yes, the Raiders are scaring quite a few defenses out there, but the way I look at it is the Raiders had a decent offense --- 16th or 17th overall? They improved that considerably by getting Moss and Jordan.

Now look at their defense ranked 31st last season. They release/trade 3 of their 1st round picks and give up the 7th pick in the draft. Their recipe seems to be a good defense is a high-powered offense.

That's why they remind me of the Vikings. They will be playing catch-up on that side of the ball thru the draft and free agency over the next few years.

pigskinronin
08-27-2005, 01:03 AM
Another small observation:

As Happy Camper pointed out, Moss at times would 'play when he wanted to play' --- I would also get frustrated watching Moss jog down the field or at times not make a serious effort going for a poorly thrown ball.

There were a few times I remember him making amazing one-handed catches... and other times I saw him drop one-handed catches. And I would ask myself,"Why didn't he just go up with two hands and bring that ball down?"

Anyway, that picture in the article made me think about that again. It appears he is focused on catching that pass with one arm instead of using proper technique. Is he practing for when a DB may be draped over is arm? Of course who am I to question the best receiver in the game today? I just think he could be so much better, but the attitude has not changed.

happy camper
08-27-2005, 01:17 AM
could you imagine if moss had the attitude of marvin harrison?

actually, im not sure what marvin harrisons attitude is. why? cause all he does is shuts up and catches touchdowns. you dont see all this other junk with him.

Burley81
08-27-2005, 01:44 AM
They won't go to the playoffs. We will have a better record than them.

audioghost
08-27-2005, 09:12 AM
"happy camper" wrote:

"raiderbill70" wrote:

As Vikings fans, I'll ask you......was Moss really that much of a distraction, because I'll tell you this much I, for one, am growing tired of hearing about how much of a distraction Moss was to your team.

How much of a distraction was Moss?

1998: Randy Moss' rookie year he caught passes for 1313 yards and 17 TDs in the regular season. In the Vikings' two post season games he averaged one TD and 74 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Falcons 30-27 in the NFCC.

1999: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1413 yards and 11 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1.5 TD's and 157.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Rams 49-37 in the NFC DIV PO.

2000: In the regular season Moss accounted for 1437 yards and 15 TDs. In the Vikings' two post season games, he averaged 1 TD and 69.5 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Giants 41-0 in the NFCC.

2004: In the regular season Moss accounted for 767 yards in 13 games and 13 TDs. In historical fashion, the Vikings' two post season games....Moss averaged 1 TD and 60 yards per game. The Vikings lost to the Eagles 27-14 in the NFC DIV PO.

November of 1999, Moss was fined $10,000 for excessive verbal abuse of a side judge.

January 2000, Moss was initially fined $40,000 for squirting a field judge with a bottle of water...the fine was later reduced to $25,000.

October 2000, Moss tugged on an official's arm and bumped his facemask to the official's hat got him a $40,000 fine which is later reduced to $30,000.

In 2004, we're all aware of the mock-moons over Green Bay costing Mr. Moss $10,000 in "straight cash homie".

Now I listed instances in which the Vikings were in the playoffs, was it Moss' antics that cost the Vikings those games? You be the judge.

Later.

is there a stat for the times the offense had a bad series, and while everyone was looking at photos and talking to coaches, moss went and sat by himself on the other bench? (ive been to a few games, seen it happen)

is there a stat for how many times moss ran at half speed after the first quarter because the offense wasnt doing well and he didnt get enough balls thrown his way?

where in your stats does it show the time he walked back to the line of srimmage during a hurrey up offense?(against the bears last season, at chicago. note: it may have been a different game, but im pretty sure)

how bout the time he jumped halfway in the air and halfassed trying to catch the ball, and then it fell into the arms of the defender? (i think this was against carolina, a couple years ago, right after he said "i play when i wanna play")

take the stats and shove 'em.

simply, the vikings are better whithout him, and the raiders are better with him. but just wait until after the honneymoon season to evaluate moss' character in oakland (see: terrel owens first year vs his second year in philly.)


I totally agree with all of that....Moss wasn't as much of a distraction as he was a lazy bastage....he simply looked like he didn't care half the time....pissed me off as a fan....if he starts doing that for the Raiders, I hope he still puts up the numbers he did here...cuz those crazy mothatruckaz won't stand for any of that!