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OchoCinco
08-22-2005, 11:24 PM
Moore to start with Bennett hurt
Last Update: 8/22/2005 3:08:32 PM


Anthony Maggio
KFAN dot com

Vikings coach Mike Tice said Michael Bennett will sit out Friday’s game against San Diego with a slightly sprained neck. The move is more precautionary as the team does not want to risk its No. 1 back in a preseason game. Bennett did not practice on Monday.

But Bennett’s absence opens the door for Mewelde Moore to start at tailback. Moore has also returned kicks during the preseason, but will likely see very limited duty in that role as the starter in the backfield. That move will give Ryan Hoag an opportunity to contribute even more on special teams.

happy camper
08-22-2005, 11:26 PM
dude, whos gonna play the rest of the game at runningback?

just moore and moe williams?

man, and some of you people slammed me when i said we needed another running back. of course, our sitution is not terrible right now, but what if moore or moe goes down?

hmm..

Del Rio
08-22-2005, 11:27 PM
Looks like it's show time.

Now Moore must perform good enough to shine against the first stringers.

PurplePeopleEaters
08-22-2005, 11:28 PM
"gdavikes84" wrote:

Moore to start with Bennett hurt
Last Update: 8/22/2005 3:08:32 PM


Anthony Maggio
KFAN dot com

Vikings coach Mike Tice said Michael Bennett will sit out Friday’s game against San Diego with a slightly sprained neck. The move is more precautionary as the team does not want to risk its No. 1 back in a preseason game. Bennett did not practice on Monday.

But Bennett’s absence opens the door for Mewelde Moore to start at tailback. Moore has also returned kicks during the preseason, but will likely see very limited duty in that role as the starter in the backfield. That move will give Ryan Hoag an opportunity to contribute even more on special teams.

OH YEAH MOORE IS TEH PWNZEDZZZ!!!!! THIS IZ GONNA ROCKZZZ! :roll:

Bennett is hurt again.. what do you know. :roll: Watch this turn into a Moss thread... Well this gives Moore a chance to show his stuff against a first team and if he wins the job I am all for him..

cajunvike
08-22-2005, 11:30 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

dude, whos gonna play the rest of the game at runningback?

just moore and moe williams?

man, and some of you people slammed me when i said we needed another running back. of course, our sitution is not terrible right now, but what if moore or moe goes down?

hmm..

You forget about Fason...I haven't seen any reports that said that he was out for this game...also Echumandu can throw in a few carries for one game.

pigskinronin
08-22-2005, 11:31 PM
Butchie Wallace unless he's been cut. Chargers have a very good run defense, so the RB's will have their work cut out for them.

akvikefan89
08-22-2005, 11:36 PM
Oh brother. I hate injuries, If Moore can do it, more power to him.

pigskinronin
08-22-2005, 11:37 PM
I believe it was discussed in another thread that Fason was out 3-4 weeks with a high ankle sprain --- not sure of the source.

OchoCinco
08-22-2005, 11:39 PM
Heres our chance to get Edge.....oops I mean Alexander...wait I mean Henry....no, I think George.....no Donovan Darius...thats it....

happy camper
08-23-2005, 01:24 AM
"cajunvike" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

dude, whos gonna play the rest of the game at runningback?

just moore and moe williams?

man, and some of you people slammed me when i said we needed another running back. of course, our sitution is not terrible right now, but what if moore or moe goes down?

hmm..

You forget about Fason...I haven't seen any reports that said that he was out for this game...also Echumandu can throw in a few carries for one game.

fason is out for awhile. i think they said 2-3 weeks, but i heard someone say high ankle sprains take longer.. who knows..

Mr. Purple
08-23-2005, 01:29 AM
This is Bitter Sweet. I like that MeMo will get a shot to show his stuff, but I dont like having injuried Players.

ColoradoVike
08-23-2005, 01:35 AM
jeez, you guys have already written off butchie wallace. =P

but yes, this game has new potential. However, I think that even if Moore racks up a lot of yards, Bennet will still be the started when he returns at full health.

natethegreat
08-23-2005, 02:09 AM
i guess this is kind of good news, now moore if he plays great might have a chance at starting, but i doubt it bc i think tice already has bennett the starter to matter what, but i think that adachinobi echamando or whatever his name is will also play alot, i think he is a little better than buchie

natethegreat
08-23-2005, 02:30 AM
here is what tice has to say about it....


Q: Is the door opening for Mewelde to take the starting job at running back?
A: You can write whatever you want. Michael Bennett is our starting running back. He's got a dinged neck right now, so Mewelde is going to get the nod this week. It's like a regular season game. One guy goes down; the other guy gets the chance. So that means the guy who was playing special teams, someone has to step up and take his special teams spot and not screw up and play at the same high level. That is an area where we haven't been able to do it. We've had backups come in and not play at a starter's level and there is backups that came up either from practice squad or third team or whatever weren't able to keep the consistency up on special teams. Those have been some of the things I've pointed out. But at the same time, when we're sitting in the staff meetings, it is the first time in four years where there were some heated discussions, almost to the point of arguments, on some of the kids on our football team. You got guys fighting for guys. In the four years I've been our coach, I've said "we're going to cut this guy, this guy, we're going to put this guy at practice squad, and anyone got anything to say" and the coaches would sit there like that. Where we are at right now with our roster, there is a lot of heated discussion about a lot of kids and a lot of positions. That's a good thing. When you are in that position, that means what we have all said we thought we were when this thing started, we have some depth. And we have some quality depth, so as far opening the door, no, I don't see that.

DeathtoDenny
08-23-2005, 02:32 AM
Bennett injured? WIERD. We should trade him for a punter.

natethegreat
08-23-2005, 02:34 AM
haha, we do need a punter, bennett can't even punt his age and thats preety bad

Ltrey33
08-23-2005, 02:37 AM
While I don't like to see Bennett get hurt, it will be nice to see MeMo run with the starters again! I'm still not ready to axe MB though.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 02:42 AM
"natethegreat" wrote:

here is what tice has to say about it....


Q: Is the door opening for Mewelde to take the starting job at running back?
A: You can write whatever you want. Michael Bennett is our starting running back. He's got a dinged neck right now, so Mewelde is going to get the nod this week. It's like a regular season game. One guy goes down; the other guy gets the chance. So that means the guy who was playing special teams, someone has to step up and take his special teams spot and not screw up and play at the same high level. That is an area where we haven't been able to do it. We've had backups come in and not play at a starter's level and there is backups that came up either from practice squad or third team or whatever weren't able to keep the consistency up on special teams. Those have been some of the things I've pointed out. But at the same time, when we're sitting in the staff meetings, it is the first time in four years where there were some heated discussions, almost to the point of arguments, on some of the kids on our football team. You got guys fighting for guys. In the four years I've been our coach, I've said "we're going to cut this guy, this guy, we're going to put this guy at practice squad, and anyone got anything to say" and the coaches would sit there like that. Where we are at right now with our roster, there is a lot of heated discussion about a lot of kids and a lot of positions. That's a good thing. When you are in that position, that means what we have all said we thought we were when this thing started, we have some depth. And we have some quality depth, so as far opening the door, no, I don't see that.



Sounds like what I heard on the radio(KFAN) was right, that Tice was fighting with the other coaches about the #1 RB spot. Everyone else thinks mewelde moore should start.

I don't get it either. Tice says Bennett is our starter no matter what? That doesn't sound like a competition, that he said there was gonna be, between MM and Bennett, earlier this off-season. It's not like Bennett has preformed good enough to have already won the competition. He is so big headed that he won't even give MM a chance at winning the job.

If there's anything or anyone that I am worried about holding this team down this year, from meeting expectations, it's definitely Tice. He makes so many poor decisions, it's ridiculous!

2fat4uVike
08-23-2005, 02:54 AM
amen to that muchluv4smoot, Tice is this teams biggest thorn, shat for brains :shock:
Once again Bennett proves his @$$ is glass, he should be situational player only, screens and thats about it, or hey wait a minute, Tice how about a pitchout to Bennett to get him on the outside edge?? that'd be too simple i guess

Ltrey33
08-23-2005, 03:19 AM
I really hated Tice's comment about getting Bennett "6 or 7 yards down the field" so he could make a play. Personally, I don't care if it's the third stringer for the Barcelona Dragons, if you get an NFL running back 6 or 7 yards down the field he's going to make a play regardless of who he is, and even getting your running back 6 or 7 yards down the field is a chore.

That's the difference between Bennett and Moore to me. Bennett will make a HUGE play if all of the pieces fall into place and he can get a wide open lane, but MeMo makes much better plays, and is better at being nifty and breaking tackles to get "6 or 7 yards down the field."

Like I said before, I'm not mailing it in on Bennett, but my confidence in him has been shaken.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 03:25 AM
I am not and have never said I dislike Bennett, AS A RB. I want to get that straight. The problem I have is that he isn't a starter IMO. He is a great situational back. He is great in space and will be good to run some sweeps and screen passes too, but can not run inside the tackles to save his life. IMO, your starting RB ABSOLUTELY needs to be a RB that can run good between the tackles. Thats MM and not Bennett.

If we use Bennett right, he could be a huge asset to our team. Unfortunately Tice seems to want to use him in the wrong way and oversue him. Luckily it sounds like the other coaches are starting to stand up and say enough is enough with bennett and let MM have a shot.

midgensa
08-23-2005, 04:07 AM
Bennett is only sitting as a precaution, if this was a regular season game he would definiely be in there. I did not see anyone giving Williamson or Smoot sh*t for missing a game ... everyone is so quick to hate on Bennett for no good reason.
That said, I hope that MeMo really shines in this shot and shows that we have plenty of depth at RB even without Onterrio.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 04:10 AM
"midgensa" wrote:

Bennett is only sitting as a precaution, if this was a regular season game he would definiely be in there. I did not see anyone giving Williamson or Smoot sh*t for missing a game ... everyone is so quick to hate on Bennett for no good reason.
That said, I hope that MeMo really shines in this shot and shows that we have plenty of depth at RB even without Onterrio.


Smoot has sat out 2 games in 4 NFL seasons and williamson hasn't played in the NFL yet, but wasn't injured in college either. I wouldn't exactly say they are in the same boat as Bennett, injury-wise.

midgensa
08-23-2005, 04:14 AM
"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

"midgensa" wrote:

Bennett is only sitting as a precaution, if this was a regular season game he would definiely be in there. I did not see anyone giving Williamson or Smoot sh*t for missing a game ... everyone is so quick to hate on Bennett for no good reason.
That said, I hope that MeMo really shines in this shot and shows that we have plenty of depth at RB even without Onterrio.


Smoot has sat out 2 games in 4 NFL seasons and williamson hasn't played in the NFL yet, but wasn't injured in college either. I wouldn't exactly say they are in the same boat as Bennett, injury-wise.

Yeah, but the point is, he is only sitting out as precaution, nothing else. IF it was a legitimate injury, I would understand, but it is something small that they do not want to aggrivate. That is what the preseason is for ... Sometimes people get hurt in football, sometimes they get hurt a couple of times close together ... that is how it goes. Robert Smith had this problem and everyone was saying we should get rid of him too ... they were right ... he definitely sucked.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 04:21 AM
"midgensa" wrote:

"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

"midgensa" wrote:

Bennett is only sitting as a precaution, if this was a regular season game he would definiely be in there. I did not see anyone giving Williamson or Smoot sh*t for missing a game ... everyone is so quick to hate on Bennett for no good reason.
That said, I hope that MeMo really shines in this shot and shows that we have plenty of depth at RB even without Onterrio.


Smoot has sat out 2 games in 4 NFL seasons and williamson hasn't played in the NFL yet, but wasn't injured in college either. I wouldn't exactly say they are in the same boat as Bennett, injury-wise.

Yeah, but the point is, he is only sitting out as precaution, nothing else. IF it was a legitimate injury, I would understand, but it is something small that they do not want to aggrivate. That is what the preseason is for ... Sometimes people get hurt in football, sometimes they get hurt a couple of times close together ... that is how it goes. Robert Smith had this problem and everyone was saying we should get rid of him too ... they were right ... he definitely sucked.


An injury is an injury. In Bennett's case, any injury causing him to miss any game, will stir up all this talk. That's just how it will be, until he shows he can play a full season as a #1 RB.

This thead isn't all about bennett being hurt again, but more about MM getting a chance to preform great(not that he hasn't every time he has gotten a chance) with the #1 offense, and hopefully get through that thick head of Tice's, that he is clearly the better overall RB and should be starting, which is what the other coaches on this team are trying to tell Tice.

Ltrey33
08-23-2005, 04:26 AM
"natethegreat" wrote:

haha, we do need a punter, bennett can't even punt his age and thats preety bad

Tice said Bennett "kicked himself out of his slump" on Friday. I'm no fan of Bennett...but a 43 yard average with a long of 51 isn't exactly horrible, especially when you have that first 29 yarder thrown in there. I'd like to see somone new as our punter, but Bennett is pretty much all we got.

http://vikings.kfan.com/sports/nflguide/local/story.aspx?content_id=FB936657-269C-4E5C-80A7-8EDAB87DCE5B

fourdoorchevelle
08-23-2005, 06:30 AM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Looks like it's show time.

Now Moore must perform good enough to shine against the first stringers.

if moore doesn't put up then alot of people may be eating crow , or we could just blame the offencive line like bennett fans.

hopefully bennetts ok , but i still think moore can do much moore for the team.

Prophet
08-23-2005, 06:39 AM
Butchie! Butchie! Butchie!

mnjamie
08-23-2005, 06:47 AM
Bennett will be fine ... Now we can finally put this to rest. IMO Memo should be the starter, but now he finally has his chance to take over. If he has a big game against S.D. run defense, there is no question he gets the rg season opener and the job should be his to loose then. Even if Bennett is healthy, Tice cant keep kidding himself Bennett is going to be available for the whole season not hurt and give Memo the carries he needs to be the #1.

TheAnimal93
08-23-2005, 06:56 AM
Well it looks like I am back on as the Prez of the "you can never have too many running backs" club!!!!!!
HEY SHOCK-O!!! :roll: :lol:

Why do you have to be a hater if you prefer someone besides what the status quo or the logical choice is? You like who you like. I like whoever is doing the best. Bennett can do a good job, he has proved it more than once or twice. I like MeMo because he apparently can do the job a little bit better, so far. Fason may be better than both but he is hurt as well. Sometimes you need more than one "feature" back.
It seems that all of our backs have their own "achilles heel". Memo and Fason dont have the blocking down, and from what I saw the other night neither does Bennett.
What I hate is players not doing what the are supposed to be doing. Studying more film!!!!! (slam)

Skoal_Vikings
08-23-2005, 07:10 AM
i think bennett showed in 2002 that he can be the feature bcak, when he rushed for 1296 yards and made the pro bowl. i think if mewelde moore does good against the chargers, then he should start.and if he doesent, it wont really matter since it seems like alot of people think hell get hurt anyway. i personally like fason the most and think that he has the most upside out of all our backs. im hoping that he will eventually move into the starting role and i think hes our running back of the future.

2fat4uVike
08-23-2005, 07:20 AM
"fourdoorchevelle" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

Looks like it's show time.

Now Moore must perform good enough to shine against the first stringers.

if moore doesn't put up then alot of people may be eating crow , or we could just blame the offencive line like bennett fans.

hopefully bennetts ok , but i still think moore can do much moore for the team.

I like my crow with cajun seasoning please, lemon pepper rocks too. Although eagle always tastes better, but that'll get you 100 years in the electric chair. :shock: :lol:

Prophet
08-23-2005, 07:28 AM
We could always pick up Troy Hambrick, Denny just cut him from the Cards. Probably could pay his salary with a few McDonalds gift certificates.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 08:10 AM
"Skoal_Vikings" wrote:

i think Bennett showed in 2002 that he can be the feature bcak, when he rushed for 1296 yards and made the pro bowl. i think if mewelde moore does good against the chargers, then he should start.and if he doesent, it wont really matter since it seems like alot of people think hell get hurt anyway. i personally like fason the most and think that he has the most upside out of all our backs. im hoping that he will eventually move into the starting role and i think hes our running back of the future.


Keep in mind that those 1296 yards for Bennett were before 2 injuries. He hasn't looked the same since. Also keep in mind that we had randy moss back then, who took all the 8 in the boxes away and made it much easier for our O-line to open up the big holes that Bennett needs to be successful. Bennett has bad vision and hasn't been able to make anybody miss, since coming back from his injuries, not that he was very good at it before his injuries. With Moss gone, the running holes will be smaller and we will need a RB in there that has good vision and is decisive when he gets the ball. Bennett just dances around and falls down when someone touches him, if there isn't the obvious huge hole.

From the looks of the calls in preseason, we seem to be testing Bennett to see if he can be our feature back, by running him inside the tackles a lot. So far he has been absolutely horrible trying to run between the tackles, showing horrible vision, no elusiveness, and no cutback ability.

I don't think it can be anymore obvious, that Bennett is a situational back and a guy who should only be out there only in special packages that are designed to get him into some open space, where he is successful.

mnjamie
08-23-2005, 08:14 AM
Memo: Starter
Bennett: 3rd down ... spell Memo
Moe: Goal line situation and big catches in tough spots
C4: Study, Study, Study more film and get healthy
Butchie: Get ready !! # might get called this year if the injuries keep up

... Seriously, I would like also to see Moe get more touches and see what he could do. Everytime he's in the game only good things happen, durabily question or not with more touches.

Skoal_Vikings
08-23-2005, 08:25 AM
"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

"Skoal_Vikings" wrote:

i think Bennett showed in 2002 that he can be the feature bcak, when he rushed for 1296 yards and made the pro bowl. i think if mewelde moore does good against the chargers, then he should start.and if he doesent, it wont really matter since it seems like alot of people think hell get hurt anyway. i personally like fason the most and think that he has the most upside out of all our backs. im hoping that he will eventually move into the starting role and i think hes our running back of the future.


Keep in mind that those 1296 yards for Bennett were before 2 injuries. He hasn't looked the same since. Also keep in mind that we had randy moss back then, who took all the 8 in the boxes away and made it much easier for our O-line to open up the big holes that Bennett needs to be successful. Bennett has bad vision and hasn't been able to make anybody miss, since coming back from his injuries, not that he was very good at it before his injuries. With Moss gone, the running holes will be smaller and we will need a RB in there that has good vision and is decisive when he gets the ball. Bennett just dances around and falls down when someone touches him, if there isn't the obvious huge hole.

From the looks of the calls in preseason, we seem to be testing Bennett to see if he can be our feature back, by running him inside the tackles a lot. So far he has been absolutely horrible trying to run between the tackles, showing horrible vision, no elusiveness, and no cutback ability.

I don't think it can be anymore obvious, that Bennett is a situational back and a guy who should only be out there only in special packages that are designed to get him into some open space, where he is successful.

bennett still went for 5 ypc carry in 2003. it did go down last year, but onterrio smiths avg ypc went down by 1 ypc last year as well. bennetts numbers in the preseason havent looked great thus far either, but unlike moore and fason hes playing against the 1st team d, and our line hasnt been paying that great as of yet, so he hasnt had much help from them. and like someone else said, robery smith had some injury problems in his career too. i dont necessarily think bennetti s the answer, but we should see how moore plays against a 1st unit before we all promote him to starter and call for bennett to sit.

fourdoorchevelle
08-23-2005, 08:30 AM
this is from fanball.com and their thought on the minn running backs

Aug 22 Mewelde Moore will get the start for the Vikings at running back on Friday in their preseason game against the Chargers. Regular starter Michael Bennett has a slightly sprained neck and the team does not want to risk using him. Bennett did not practice on Monday. After Monday's practice, head coach Mike Tice was asked if the injury has opened the door for Moore to take the starting job. "You can write whatever you want. Michael Bennett is our starting running back," Tice responded. "He's got a dinged neck right now, so Mewelde is going to get the nod this week. It's like a regular season game. One guy goes down; the other guy gets the chance."
Views: Well, since the coach said we could write whatever we want, don't mind if we do. Bennett has looked absolutely terrible this preseason. He has 12 rushes for 19 yards (1.6 yard average) and has fumbled once. One never gets the sense that Bennett is going to break a tackle or make something special happen when he gets the ball—his Olympic speed is doing him no good. But Tice loves Bennett, so the Vikes are apt to stay with him unless this neck injury (or whatever malady befalls him next) prevents him from playing. Meanwhile, Moore has rushed the ball 11 times for 86 yards (7.8 yard average) and a touchdown this preseason and gives one the sense that he is about to bust off a long run whenever he touches the ball. The first tackler rarely takes him down. It will be interesting to see what happens if Moore goes off against the Chargers and does well on the "little" things like pass blocking.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6878/news

AngloVike
08-23-2005, 02:50 PM
This will be an interesting situation, given that Fason is also out due to injury then I could see that MM may well play up to at least halftime and maybe into the third quarter. Coaches then will be able to see how he goes against SD's first, second and maybe even third stringers.
Some say that it's his chance to play with the first string offense and show what he can do against a first string D - don't forget though he did that for four games last season, so he's not as inexperienced at this level as some would say.
If he plays a blinding game this week then the pressure will really be cranked up on both Bennett and Tice - as if Bennett and the running game struggle early in the season, then people will be calling for Moore.
It's a pity that Fason is injured as this would be an ideal time for him to show what he can bring to the table.

UTVikfan
08-23-2005, 05:39 PM
Memo got injured last year, so did O. Smith and Moe. He did say precautionary. Ya'll aint opening the door for Brian Williams with Smoot hurt? Smoot hurt his neck, and Galishaw did look good! Not gonna happen.
But, Mewelde has really gotta shine, he is 3rd string. I don't see him jumping even one spot on the depth. I love the guy, but he isn't there yet.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 05:53 PM
"Skoal_Vikings" wrote:

"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

"Skoal_Vikings" wrote:

i think Bennett showed in 2002 that he can be the feature bcak, when he rushed for 1296 yards and made the pro bowl. i think if mewelde moore does good against the chargers, then he should start.and if he doesent, it wont really matter since it seems like alot of people think hell get hurt anyway. i personally like fason the most and think that he has the most upside out of all our backs. im hoping that he will eventually move into the starting role and i think hes our running back of the future.


Keep in mind that those 1296 yards for Bennett were before 2 injuries. He hasn't looked the same since. Also keep in mind that we had randy moss back then, who took all the 8 in the boxes away and made it much easier for our O-line to open up the big holes that Bennett needs to be successful. Bennett has bad vision and hasn't been able to make anybody miss, since coming back from his injuries, not that he was very good at it before his injuries. With Moss gone, the running holes will be smaller and we will need a RB in there that has good vision and is decisive when he gets the ball. Bennett just dances around and falls down when someone touches him, if there isn't the obvious huge hole.

From the looks of the calls in preseason, we seem to be testing Bennett to see if he can be our feature back, by running him inside the tackles a lot. So far he has been absolutely horrible trying to run between the tackles, showing horrible vision, no elusiveness, and no cutback ability.

I don't think it can be anymore obvious, that Bennett is a situational back and a guy who should only be out there only in special packages that are designed to get him into some open space, where he is successful.

bennett still went for 5 ypc carry in 2003. it did go down last year, but onterrio smiths avg ypc went down by 1 ypc last year as well. bennetts numbers in the preseason havent looked great thus far either, but unlike moore and fason hes playing against the 1st team d, and our line hasnt been paying that great as of yet, so he hasnt had much help from them. and like someone else said, robery smith had some injury problems in his career too. i dont necessarily think bennetti s the answer, but we should see how moore plays against a 1st unit before we all promote him to starter and call for bennett to sit.


Um, why is everyone saying mewelde hasn't played against #1 D's yet? KC played their #1 D almost 2 quarters, meaning mewelde moore played against the same D that bennett did. MM also had some starters out of the game when he went in, like daunte, burleson, and a few others. That game is a fair comparison, if not a little easier for bennett with daunte and all the starters still in there.

Mewelde Moore also played against #1 D's last season, when he averaged 5.8 yards per carry, in a season that Bennett's and Onterrio's averages went down drastically. Please spare me the talk that MM only did good last season, because he played bad D's, because I have yet to see Bennett put up anywhere near the same #'s that MM did in that 3 game stretch last season, and I know for a fact that Bennett has had 3 game stretches against D's that ranked even worse against the run.

There is a reason why Tice is now the lone coach that believes Bennett should start over Mewelde Moore, because Moore is the better RB, and he has shown it every time he has gotten the chance.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 05:57 PM
"UTVikfan" wrote:

Memo got injured last year, so did O. Smith and Moe. He did say precautionary. Ya'll aint opening the door for Brian Williams with Smoot hurt? Smoot hurt his neck, and Galishaw did look good! Not gonna happen.
But, Mewelde has really gotta shine, he is 3rd string. I don't see him jumping even one spot on the depth. I love the guy, but he isn't there yet.


Well, Bennett has missed how many games these past 2 seasons? Smoot has missed 2 games in his 4 year career. Mewelde Moore has outperformed Bennett, in every opportunity he has had, and Brian Williams hasn't and never will outplay Smoot. Don't see the resemblance.

Del Rio
08-23-2005, 06:11 PM
Statistically Williams can be compared to Smoot, but that is a debate long gone.


Listen to what you are saying. Let's think for a moment here.....collect our thoughts.

With the info given here you have to conclude one of a few options.

A) Tice knows something we don't Bennett is better then MM.
B) Tice hates MM and is going out of his way to teach the guy a lesson.
C) Tice is an idiot, he doesn't realize Memo is way better.
D) Tice is trying to limit Memo's play to keep him as a secret weapon.
E) Tice uses the run to score not to move the chains.

A) Now stats are stats, lets agree Bennett is not better then MM.

B) I am guessing that Randy8404 may believe this on some level. That Tice dislikes MM. He is more of a thug in appearance, he might not see eye to eye. Bennett is a choir boy. I don't buy it, but it's out in the open now.

C) While this is the easy thing to say, I really hope it isn't true. He isn't the brightest but he should be able to see the results.

D)Possibility, I doubt it.

E) This is my theory if this topic is even worthy of as much thought. The Minnesota Vikings move the ball in the air. They can get an 8th man in the box by short passing, that is how good they are at doing it. Why? Because Pepper buys time. Tice thinks Bennett poses the biggest threat of breaking a HUGE run. Not a run that will pick up 5 or 6. He wants 60 and a score. He has said himself, if we can only get him past the LB's he will do well. He could care less about the run.

So what now? If you buy any of those ideas. What do you want us to do? Is there an online petition to sign? Should we storm the Dome and kill Tice and declare ourselves coaches and substitute Memo in and drag Bennett behind a horse for 1000 miles? I mean it is pretty obvious this issue is fairly serious, but IMO it is an issue of design.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 06:17 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Statistically Williams can be compared to Smoot, but that is a debate long gone.


Statistically Brian Russell was the best FS in the NFL 2 years ago. :lol: Stats are VERY misleading, especially in the secondary.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 06:22 PM
For you Bennett fans, think about this. I think we all know that Bennett is a RB that gives you runs of 0,1,1,3,0,2,1, and then bursts for a 50 yarder. That means that we will be in a lot of 3rd and 7,8,9,10's. Well, when we had Moss, it wasn't a big deal to be in a 3rd and long, but now he is gone and I guarantee you that 3rd and long is gonna be a much much bigger deal to us. We have a RB in MM who may not get the 50 yarders that Bennett does, but will get the 4,5, and 6 yarders almost every carry, meaning not very many 3rd and long's and a ton of 3rd and shorts's.

This is another thing that makes MM the better candidate for starter IMO.

i_bleed_purple
08-23-2005, 06:25 PM
if MeMo was playing against second and third stringers then that would mean that he was also playing with second and third string linemen. these linemen wouldn't be able to open up the holes as well as our starting linemen, yet MeMo is still the leading rusher.

Del Rio
08-23-2005, 06:26 PM
"Brian Williams hasn't and never will outplay Smoot" "Stat are VERY misleading"


I'm not talking single season statistics I'm talking carreer statistics.

Well unless you are some oracle in which we are all to trust that you have seen every play from scrimmage that both have had, and had the ability to judge what they did right and wrong then all you have to base an actual argument on is statistics.

Or you can chaulk it up to hype, opinion, and ESPN. That's great, nothing wrong with that. That's just a pretty bold accusation to not be able to defend with anything factual.

But as I said back to this Memo Bennett case, so you have all the facts you need apparently. What is the reasoning behind it. You can't really be chaulking it up to Tice not knowing Memo is better can you?

Del Rio
08-23-2005, 06:31 PM
"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

For you Bennett fans, think about this. I think we all know that Bennett is a RB that gives you runs of 0,1,1,3,0,2,1, and then bursts for a 50 yarder. That means that we will be in a lot of 3rd and 7,8,9,10's. Well, when we had Moss, it wasn't a big deal to be in a 3rd and long, but now he is gone and I guarantee you that 3rd and long is gonna be a much much bigger deal to us. We have a RB in MM who may not get the 50 yarders that Bennett does, but will get the 4,5, and 6 yarders almost every carry, meaning not very many 3rd and long's and a ton of 3rd and shorts's.

This is another thing that makes MM the better candidate for starter IMO.

I don't think that is true at all. Culpepper's percentage is still amazing and we thrive on third and short with our TE play, backs that can catch, and a mobile QB 3rd and 7,8,9 will never be an issue.

Ibleedpurple79
08-23-2005, 06:55 PM
Alright, I have to chime in on this topic...

MeMo and Bennet are both two really good backs in my opinion, but they have drastically different styles. MB is a home run hitter... he has the speed where if you get him past the LBers he's gonna bust one for a lot of yards. I read someone say that he only did well in 2002 because Moss was keeping them from putting 8 in the box? Well, that's a bunch of BS. Tice REGULARLY put two TE sets and ran the ball with the safety up and still ate up yards like nobodies business. The Vikings basically stopped just one step short of just telling the Defense they were running the ball.

Bennet at best can only make one guy miss, so in order for him to be effective he needs to have a well gelled offensive line, which at this point we don't have. Missing one of the best pulling centers in the league certainly doesn't improve your situation either. MeMo is a juker... he's low, he's slippery, he makes people miss. He has the ability to make the guy miss who is pushing past a blown blocking assignment and keep a play from turning into negative yards.

If we had a healthy O-Line, and KlienSaussage was up to 100% I would say that MB is the guy I want to start no question, but right now I think MeMo is our best option.... regardless of who is healthy.

That is... IMHO... :cool:

PAvikesfan
08-23-2005, 07:29 PM
i think MM has more to offer...we very well have the next brian westbrook on our team but tice is too stubborn at this point to see it. i like MB but he is a speed runner and needs to have the proper blocks in place to get the yards. if someone breaths on him hard he falls like paper. if our blocking doesn't imporve, MB should not play. it is his job to lose still at this point and he is lucky O smith is a doufas cause neither Moore nor Bennett would be starting at this point.

IMO, i say give bennet some chance, but i figure by week 5, MM will be our feature back. with Moe taking the short yards.

PA

Prophet
08-23-2005, 07:36 PM
I am going under the assumption that Meathead learned from his Randy Ratio comments a few years ago and we really don't know for certain what is on his mind. He may plan on starting Bennett but giving MeMo more reps. Who knows. I know I would sure love to be in Tice's seat making the calls for the Vikes.

VKG4LFE
08-23-2005, 07:39 PM
What Michael Bennett is hurt, I'm SHOCKED! lol

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 08:22 PM
"Del Rio wrote:

Well unless you are some oracle.....


Is this the same oracle that you are, when talking about Ted Cottrell? :grin:

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 08:28 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

For you Bennett fans, think about this. I think we all know that Bennett is a RB that gives you runs of 0,1,1,3,0,2,1, and then bursts for a 50 yarder. That means that we will be in a lot of 3rd and 7,8,9,10's. Well, when we had Moss, it wasn't a big deal to be in a 3rd and long, but now he is gone and I guarantee you that 3rd and long is gonna be a much much bigger deal to us. We have a RB in MM who may not get the 50 yarders that Bennett does, but will get the 4,5, and 6 yarders almost every carry, meaning not very many 3rd and long's and a ton of 3rd and shorts's.

This is another thing that makes MM the better candidate for starter IMO.

I don't think that is true at all. Culpepper's percentage is still amazing and we thrive on third and short with our TE play, backs that can catch, and a mobile QB 3rd and 7,8,9 will never be an issue.


Yes, we thrive on 3rd and short, like I said. Which is why I think MM should start. But to say because we have been good with moss at 3rd and longs, that it won't be any harder to convert 3rd and long with him gone, is ridiculous. Who do you think helped open up the middle of the field for the RB's and TE's?

I stand by my statement, that now that we don't have Moss, 3rd and long will be much tougher for us to convert, then it use to be. With Moss, 3rd and long, use to seem like 3rd and 4 or 5, now we will see reality.

I am not saying 3rd and long's will be really hard for us to convert without Moss, I am saying they will definitely get much tougher wihout him and we will have way way less of them with MM as our RB.

All you need to do, is look at the percentages from last season, when moss was hurt and when he wasn't, to see this.

Del Rio
08-23-2005, 08:30 PM
Usually when I get into a discussion about Cotrell I use his stats to enforce my opinion. I use the fact that he was fired by the Jets for running a good thing into the ground. I use the fact that the new D cord has turned them around. I like to point out our statistics under him. I like to talk about the games where our DB's were in no man's land I offer the video for nay sayers.

So no not quite the same thing.

I also try not to let my opinions slide by as some momentous factoid that I pulled from some tome of ancient knowledge.......

I say what I think, if there are stats to prove it then I can provide them, if I'm just talking shit I let it be known.

I was expecting some serious commentary on this running back situation and that's what we get?

Del Rio
08-23-2005, 08:31 PM
"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

For you Bennett fans, think about this. I think we all know that Bennett is a RB that gives you runs of 0,1,1,3,0,2,1, and then bursts for a 50 yarder. That means that we will be in a lot of 3rd and 7,8,9,10's. Well, when we had Moss, it wasn't a big deal to be in a 3rd and long, but now he is gone and I guarantee you that 3rd and long is gonna be a much much bigger deal to us. We have a RB in MM who may not get the 50 yarders that Bennett does, but will get the 4,5, and 6 yarders almost every carry, meaning not very many 3rd and long's and a ton of 3rd and shorts's.

This is another thing that makes MM the better candidate for starter IMO.

I don't think that is true at all. Culpepper's percentage is still amazing and we thrive on third and short with our TE play, backs that can catch, and a mobile QB 3rd and 7,8,9 will never be an issue.


Yes, we thrive on 3rd and short, like I said. Which is why I think MM should start. But to say because we have been good with moss at 3rd and longs, that it won't be any harder to convert 3rd and long with him gone, is ridiculous. Who do you think helped open up the middle of the field for the RB's and TE's?

I stand by my statement, that now that we don't have Moss, 3rd and long will be much tougher for us to convert, then it use to be. With Moss, 3rd and long, use to seem like 3rd and 4 or 5, now we will see reality.

I am not saying 3rd and long's will be really hard for us to convert without Moss, I am saying they will definitely get much tougher wihout him and we will have way way less of them with MM as our RB.

All you need to do, is look at the percentages from last season, when moss was hurt and when he wasn't, to see this.

Well give me a minute I'll whip those right up for everyone.....

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 08:36 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Usually when I get into a discussion about Cotrell I use his stats to enforce my opinion. I use the fact that he was fired by the Jets for running a good thing into the ground. I use the fact that the new D cord has turned them around. I like to point out our statistics under him. I like to talk about the games where our DB's were in no man's land I offer the video for nay sayers.

So no not quite the same thing.

I also try not to let my opinions slide by as some momentous factoid that I pulled from some tome of ancient knowledge.......

I say what I think, if there are stats to prove it then I can provide them, if I'm just talking pooh I let it be known.

I was expecting some serious commentary on this running back situation and that's what we get?


And like I said, stats don't tell the true story about every player or every position. Just look at champ bailey's stats, he is nowhere near the top of the league in stats, but he is one of the best CB's in the league, despite stats. Not because of what ESPN says either, but because of what he does on the field.

When you haven't seen guys play very much, you have to just go solely on stats. I am assuming you haven't seen smoot play very often and that(and his stats) is why you would even dare to compare the 2 CB's. Like I have said many times, I am a smoot fan and have followed him since his days at Miss St. I have seen him play a ton of games and also seen brian williams play just as many(obviously since I am a vikings fan). I don't need stats to tell me who is by far the better CB.

BBQ Platypus
08-23-2005, 08:43 PM
Bennett's not really my kind of back. He's not elusive, versatile, or durable enough to be a complete threat out of the backfield. I tend to prefer running backs that can fight for extra yards, and are a formidable threat as both a receiver and a ball carrier. Michael Bennett may be fast, and can get huge bursts of yardage from time to time when a big hole opens up for him, but a clever, versatile running back can gain sizable yardage consistently in many different situations, and still can make big plays.

I think Mewelde Moore should be the starting running back. Granted, he's a bit inexperienced, and has dropped a pass or two. But he will never become more experienced unless he gets more touches. He has the potential to be a great RB. I knew from the first time I saw him play last season that he could accomplish some great things in this league. He seems to already have his style nailed down, and, for a rookie, he makes very few mistakes. I think we should go with him as our starter.

Del Rio
08-23-2005, 09:11 PM
"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

Usually when I get into a discussion about Cotrell I use his stats to enforce my opinion. I use the fact that he was fired by the Jets for running a good thing into the ground. I use the fact that the new D cord has turned them around. I like to point out our statistics under him. I like to talk about the games where our DB's were in no man's land I offer the video for nay sayers.

So no not quite the same thing.

I also try not to let my opinions slide by as some momentous factoid that I pulled from some tome of ancient knowledge.......

I say what I think, if there are stats to prove it then I can provide them, if I'm just talking pooh I let it be known.

I was expecting some serious commentary on this running back situation and that's what we get?


And like I said, stats don't tell the true story about every player or every position. Just look at champ bailey's stats, he is nowhere near the top of the league in stats, but he is one of the best CB's in the league, despite stats. Not because of what ESPN says either, but because of what he does on the field.

When you haven't seen guys play very much, you have to just go solely on stats. I am assuming you haven't seen smoot play very often and that(and his stats) is why you would even dare to compare the 2 CB's. Like I have said many times, I am a smoot fan and have followed him since his days at Miss St. I have seen him play a ton of games and also seen brian williams play just as many(obviously since I am a vikings fan). I don't need stats to tell me who is by far the better CB.

Your conclusion can be considered nothing more then opinion then which is fine, it is what it is. Just like the Darius debate, opinions based on a very few limited hits that were widely distributed by the media.
It's a game of numbers, when you go away from the facts you are on your own. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't be upset when someone looks you in the eyes and says Muchluv you are full of shit, and all you have to back up your argument is well I saw him on TV a whole bunch, and he looked good to me.



Stats for 3rd%

Minnesota Vikings #1 in the entire NFL in 3rd down completions with 52.3%


Dal 5-8 63%
Phi 7-14 50%
Chi 4-9 44%
HOU 9-17 53%
NO 8-11 73%
Ten 2-11 18%
NYG 10-17 59%
IND 5-10 50%
GB 7-14 50%
Det 8-15 53%
Jak 6-10 60%
Chi 7-10 70%
Sea 3-10 30%
Det 9-14 64%
GB 8-16 50%

Now Technically Moss played in all but three games. He was crippled, so IMO he might as well not have been there but he did play in the Titans and Giants game. That being said for these % I said that Moss did not play in any of the blue games.

With Moss 55%
Without Moss 48%

Every game we played without Moss we were either barely below or barely above our average. That average however is #1 in the NFL. The next closest? Green Bay with a 47% average. So even without Moss we would still have the #1 3rd down percentage team in the NFL.

I personally think him playing in the Ten and NY game hurt us more then helped. If you drop that one odd ball percentage in the Ten game of 18% which is a freak of nature then our percentage is 56% which is even better then when he played.

I don't forsee the problems described, but at least now if you want (you being anyone on here) you can look at what actually happened and make your own conclusions.

When you look at those keep in mind what a small pool we are taking from. One conversion more carries a lot of weight. Until we play this season that's about all we have though.

muchluv4smoot
08-23-2005, 11:58 PM
There you go, 7% worse and that is on all 3rd down conversions. I would like to see how much the 3rd a long percentage dropped, say from 7 yards and out. I bet it dropped even more, which is what I was saying. It isn't gonna be as easy without moss, to pickup 3rd and long, not impossible or extremely hard, but not as easy. So why not put the RB in there that won't put you in those situations? Like you said, daunte and our offense excels in 3rd and short yardage situations, so it would seem that a RB like MM would be best, since he is a guy that gets you 3,4 or 5 yards every time. To me, there justs seems like so so many reasons why MM should be the #1 back.

On a side note, anyone hear Tice's press conference on KFAN today? I heard that Tice said in that interview, that we are moving forward, even for Tampa, without Mike, talking about Bennett suposidly. Anyone else hear that? Maybe his injury is a little worse then orignally expected? If so, look for MM to take the job right away from Bennett.

Oh yeah and Del, Smoot is way better then Brian Williams because I said so :pottytrain2: :lol:

muchluv4smoot
08-24-2005, 12:01 AM
Here is part of the Tice interview:



"Q: Good opportunity for Mewelde Moore?
A: Yeah, you know he has had a great preseason. He is a great kid. I am happy for his success. He has really worked hard on his pass protection even as yesterday, taking Keith Newman down the middle. Not something he would have done three weeks ago. So he is a very diligent young man. He wants to do well for himself, his family and for his teammates and coaches. He will be very successful in no matter what he does because he has a lot of character. I am happy to see that that he is getting this opportunity. Unfortunately for Mike (Bennett), you know Mike's injury gave Mewelde this opportunity. But that's football; injuries happen. We all know that.

Q: How important is Mike (Bennett)?
A: Right now, Mike's out, so I'm moving forward, even for Tampa without Mike. I don't see Mike being anything but an outside shot for Tampa. I'm not a doctor, but I know anytime you sprain your neck or tweak your neck or have neck spasms or whatever he has, it's hard to put a guy back in there, especially a guy who has taken a lot of hits, unless he is confident in that neck. It's another area where I am probably in my mind moving on with other players right now. I only can talk about a couple of things. I can talk about the battles we have to get down to 53 and 45 active (players) on game day and beating Tampa Bay. To me that's where my mind is at, as I formulate a roster and formulate playing time these next two weeks, and development time."

ultravikingfan
08-24-2005, 12:05 AM
Are the last few posts really wide on anybody else's PC?

Del Rio
08-24-2005, 12:07 AM
Yeah

natethegreat
08-24-2005, 12:10 AM
so now it sounds like bennett will miss tampa??? maybe bennett won't be able to win the job back if MM does good.

muchluv4smoot
08-24-2005, 12:14 AM
"natethegreat" wrote:

so now it sounds like bennett will miss tampa??? maybe bennett won't be able to win the job back if MM does good.


Trust me man, unless Mewelde gets hurt, we have seen the last of Bennett as a starter in Minnesota. He will get special packages that he will come in the game for, when he gets healthy, but MM will quickly prove he deserves to be the starter.

fourdoorchevelle
08-24-2005, 03:27 AM
"muchluv4smoot" wrote:



Q: How important is Mike (Bennett)?
A: Right now, Mike's out, so I'm moving forward, even for Tampa without Mike. I don't see Mike being anything but an outside shot for Tampa....... I can talk about the battles we have to get down to 53 and 45 active (players) on game day and beating Tampa Bay. To me that's where my mind is at, as I formulate a roster and formulate playing time these next two weeks, and development time."


i haven't seen any links to confirm this so i thought i would post one.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6878/news

quote :: What's interesting here is that Bennett claims to be fine, while coach Mike Tice claims that Bennett's not ready. It almost seems to us as if Tice is trying to transfer the job to Moore without overtly demoting Bennett, instead using the injury as an excuse. While Bennett is the better athlete, Moore has a better feel for the game and is a better receiver out of the backfield.

quote:Tice has been a staunch supporter of Bennett's and has not always appeared to be the biggest fan of backup Mewelde Moore. But that seems to be suddenly changing. On Tuesday, Tice also praised Moore's pass-blocking efforts—something he has pointed out as a weakness in the past. You can pencil in Moore for the start in week one against the Bucs. He'll also be leapfrogging Bennett on our cheat sheets.



seems like tice and co are doing their best to keep severity of injuries hush-hush . hopefully every one else supossedly on the mend is actually doing well .