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View Full Version : Culpepper might be unhappy...........



arialassault84
08-07-2005, 05:34 PM
Seems like Daunte and his agent mihgt want to rework his deal!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=knight-_WWW_SPRT_12321883&prov=knight&type=lgns

ultravikingfan
08-07-2005, 05:37 PM
I am not worried. Pep will get his $$$ and then get his roll on!

Bdubya
08-07-2005, 05:42 PM
If that is really what is happening, I would not be very happy about it. I can understand players like Hines Ward wanting more money, because he has obviously out-played the contract. If Culpepper actually does want to change his deal that he signed for 10 years then that just doesn't make sense to me. Did he think that in a few years he would still be one of the top paid players in the league with the way salaries have been going? My advice is to not sign a contract for so long if you don't want to honor it.

UTVikfan
08-07-2005, 05:51 PM
Reading that article, this makes sense. He should be paid with the best. He is a top 3 QB. However, the thing here that does matter, is that he is going about it the way it should be done. None of that whiny stuff like Law last year, and the whole bunch of them this year. Either way, it will work out fine, I believe.

shockzilla
08-07-2005, 06:14 PM
Turn this situation around for a minute: If you or I, or any of us "normal" citizens, were to want to "renegotiate" our salaries in mid-work, what do you think would happen? We'd be either laughed off the job or fired. I just think that these highly-overpaid "athletes" live in a totally different world than you or I, and it's really ridiculous the amount of money these guys make, compared to some teacher's salaries (right, VS?). My feeling is, you sign a contract, you HONOR that contract - no ifs, ands or buts, PERIOD. Then, at the end of the contract, look to make more money. I'm tired of doling out MY hard-earned paycheck for tickets and paraphenalia, just to keep these people in their Maserati's and bling-bling.

LosAngelis
08-07-2005, 06:27 PM
I'm glad to see the "renegotiate my contract" disease has worked its way across the Mississippi River.

I just hope that Whizzinator disease doesn't come our way. We already have Cletidus Hunt, but I think we're innoculated.

Ltrey33
08-07-2005, 06:29 PM
"shockzilla" wrote:

Turn this situation around for a minute: If you or I, or any of us "normal" citizens, were to want to "renegotiate" our salaries in mid-work, what do you think would happen? We'd be either laughed off the job or fired. I just think that these highly-overpaid "athletes" live in a totally different world than you or I, and it's really ridiculous the amount of money these guys make, compared to some teacher's salaries (right, VS?). My feeling is, you sign a contract, you HONOR that contract - no ifs, ands or buts, PERIOD. Then, at the end of the contract, look to make more money. I'm tired of doling out MY hard-earned paycheck for tickets and paraphenalia, just to keep these people in their Maserati's and bling-bling.

I agree 100% Shock. Can you imagine if the average working citizen called their boss up and said "I'm not reporting to my job until you agree to give me more money." I don't care what position in the company you have, they'd say "well don't bother coming in at all, cuz you're fired" and then you'd be the laughing stock of the company.

whackthepack
08-07-2005, 06:38 PM
There was an article in one of the local fishwraps.





Vikings quarterback Daunte Culpepper was noticeably absent from Saturday's two practices.

Given the low intensity of the sessions, with both practices cut short and on the eve of the players' first break of training camp, Culpepper's absence did not raise any red flags.

Vikings coach Mike Tice indicated after the morning practice that a few players were excused for "personal reasons." He only specifically mentioned first-year guard Shannon Snell, but his umbrella certainly covered Culpepper and running back Michael Bennett, neither of whom was at either practice.

It's not unusual for veterans to get an extra day off during training camp. Head coaches, especially ones who played in the NFL as Tice did, are sensitive to rewarding key veterans whenever they can during training camp. But there are circumstances that suggest something might be brewing with Culpepper, as his agent, Mason Ashe, and Vikings vice president of football operations, Rob Brzezinski, have engaged in at least two discussions over a three-day span.

Both Ashe and Brzezinski declined to answer several questions regarding Culpepper, ranging from the quarterback's absence at practices Saturday to whether they were discussing contract matters.

Their silence could indicate that Culpepper's current deal is under review. Since agents and contract negotiators are not usually chummy, given the competitive nature of their interactions, the two probably did not speak for more than an hour about the weather.

Ashe attended the early-evening practice Wednesday, and he spent at least a half-hour talking to Brzezinski on a remote part of the practice field at Minnesota State (Mankato).

That an agent visits one of his star clients during training camp is not at all odd. Ashe and Randy Moss' agent, Dante DiTrapano, regularly stopped by for a day or two in recent years.

But Ashe resurfaced at Friday evening's intrasquad scrimmage, having an animated discussion with Brzezinski — again for at least a half-hour — in the shadows of an end zone. At one point, Brzezinski's salary cap partner, Dave Blando, the Vikings' director of football administration, joined them. Then, after the scrimmage ended, Vikings chairman Zygi Wilf talked to the two of them for more than 10 minutes.

Their discussion could have been about revising Culpepper's contract. Since signing his incentive-laden, 10-year, $102 million contract in May 2003, more than 18 other NFL players have trumped Culpepper financially. His contract included $15 million in guaranteed money, a respectable figure at the time but one that has been surpassed by many since.

When Culpepper signed his deal in 2003, the rage among elite quarterbacks was heavily inflated $100 million contracts. The only QBs to own such deals were Donovan McNabb of the Philadelphia Eagles, Brett Favre of the Green Bay Packers and Drew Bledsoe, who is now with the Dallas Cowboys.

The next year, however, a new trend started.

Players and agents wanted less illusion and more reality, demanding the only certainty to NFL players, guaranteed money.

Peyton Manning raised the bar and re-established a new one, agreeing to a seven-year, $98 million contract with the Indianapolis Colts in March that included $34.5 million in guarantees, $14 million more than the previous record guarantee held by McNabb. In December, a new benchmark was set by Michael Vick, who agreed to an eight-year, $130 million contract with the Atlanta Falcons that included a whopping $37 million in guarantees. In May, Tom Brady of the New England Patriots reworked his deal and received $26.5 million in guarantees.

For the Vikings, redoing Culpepper's deal would be beneficial for multiple reaons. First, they have the most salary cap space of any NFL team, believed to be more than $8 million, which would give them the flexibility to rework Culpepper's contract. Secondly, Wilf would make a strong statement to Culpepper, who is clearly his franchise's top player and the key to their Super Bowl aspirations.

A three-time Pro Bowl quarterback, Culpepper received a $2.5 million roster bonus this offseason, and $1 million of his $1.54 million base salary for this season is guaranteed. In addition, he can earn up to $1.5 million more in incentives.

But those figures pale in comparison to more modern deals. For instance, the NFL's top draft pick, quarterback Alex Smith, is guaranteed $24 million even if he never completes a pass for the San Francisco 49ers.





I understand that his contract may be outdated, but it was not when he signed it. He should be in camp, if a deal gets worked out great. If not, do your best and win the damn superbowl!

cajunvike
08-07-2005, 06:44 PM
After reading the article, I would have no problem with the Vikings "restructuring" his contract, just so long as it ended up helping the Vikings salary cap situation, which it could quite possibly do. Just as long as he is looking for more of the money in his contract to be "guaranteed" and not more money in general, I am fine with it. Just so long as it doesn't cause any distractions. Liken it to a salary advance, if you will...if we need to put it in the context of what us "regular Joes" get.

canadian_vikes_fan
08-07-2005, 07:16 PM
I think people are reading into this WAY too much. Culpepper missed a practice. Big Deal! He was excused. This is from the Scout article yesterday.

It’s OK to be gone

Tice said that quarterback Daunte Culpepper, running back Michael Bennett and offensive lineman Shannon Snell were excused from both practices Saturday. Tice said that Culpepper and Bennett would return to Mankato by the 6:30 p.m. deadline Sunday, but Snell might not be back until Monday.

Is Bennett reworking his deal too???

Whoever was the author that wrote that stupid article just assumed that because Pep missed practice that he was reworking his deal, which is complete baloney. If he did think that he needed a new one, then his agent and the team would've talked about in the offseason. Daunte wouldn't just wait until the middle of training camp and then start complaining!!!!

happy camper
08-07-2005, 07:17 PM
whats the big deal about atheletes making so much money?

thier job is in high demade. players can say "im not comming to work until i get paid more" because their job is in high demade, and if the player wants out, then the vikings cant just go get another daunte culpepper.

now, for us "normal people" its different. why? because if we say "im not comming to work until i get paid more" its easy to go out and find another accountant, or another construction worker or another mcdonalds employee.

now, for us "normal people" if we have a job, and we are great at it, and nobody else can do it. we can walk in and ask for more money and get it. because you're in demand. if nobody else can do your job like you can, you can demand more money.

Caine
08-07-2005, 07:54 PM
"happy camper" wrote:

whats the big deal about atheletes making so much money?

thier job is in high demade. players can say "im not comming to work until i get paid more" because their job is in high demade, and if the player wants out, then the vikings cant just go get another daunte culpepper.

now, for us "normal people" its different. why? because if we say "im not comming to work until i get paid more" its easy to go out and find another accountant, or another construction worker or another mcdonalds employee.

now, for us "normal people" if we have a job, and we are great at it, and nobody else can do it. we can walk in and ask for more money and get it. because you're in demand. if nobody else can do your job like you can, you can demand more money.

A very valid set of points...minus one element. He signed a CONTRACT. I didn't. No one I work with did. No one I deal with on a regular basis did. Culpepper - and every other professional athlete - did.

The reason he was able to sign said contract in the first place is that he is personally valuable. He's a gifted athlete. Obviously, the Vikings desire his services. So, an agreement was reached whereby his services would be made available to the Vikings in exchanged for a predetermined rate of compensation.

And that's the same story all over professional sports. Agreements are reached, and contracts are signed.

In recent years, however, the trend of "Renegotiation" has become increasingly popular. Due, no doubt, to the foolish teams in the 80's and 90's that agreed to "renegotiate" with a petulant athlete. None of them HAD to...but they all got weak in the knees and caved in.

Now, however, teams like Philadelphia and Green Bay have said, "Enough"...and I applaud that.

The bottom line is "YOU signed that contract". The players had representation there, it isn't like they were led to the table by the greedy owner and wound up trading Manhattan for a bunch of beads and blankets. They were represented by someone who understands the gobbldy-gook in contracts, and who was trying to sign the best deal possible.

Now, as the benchmark raises, they suddenly realize, "Oh snap!! I would be worth MORE money if I was on the market". But YOU AREN"T ON THE MARKET, DUMMY!!!!!

If players don't want to be overtaken financially, sign shorter deals. That reduces the chances of a team cutting you to save roster bonuses or to eliminate the heavy end of your deal. Of course, that also means that the burden to perform lies heavier upon you. Fewer guarantees and so forth.

Someday, the players will have to learn that they can't have it both ways. I just wish that more teams would grow a set and stand firm.

Caine

ColoradoVike
08-07-2005, 08:12 PM
"shockzilla" wrote:

Turn this situation around for a minute: If you or I, or any of us "normal" citizens, were to want to "renegotiate" our salaries in mid-work, what do you think would happen? We'd be either laughed off the job or fired. I just think that these highly-overpaid "athletes" live in a totally different world than you or I, and it's really ridiculous the amount of money these guys make, compared to some teacher's salaries (right, VS?). My feeling is, you sign a contract, you HONOR that contract - no ifs, ands or buts, PERIOD. Then, at the end of the contract, look to make more money. I'm tired of doling out MY hard-earned paycheck for tickets and paraphenalia, just to keep these people in their Maserati's and bling-bling.

as happy camper points out, comparing elite NFL players to construction workers, accountants, or middle managers is like comparing chimpanzees to bananas. Quite simply, players like Culpepper have much more power to influence the conditions under which they are employed. They're more on par with CEOs of fortune 500 companies and so you really can't learn much from comparing them to "normal people"; such a comparison is really out of context.

Most players know that in a multi-year year contract, the last 2-3 years likely won't be honored by the team or at least could not be. So if teams have that much power, why shouldn't players too? Let me turn it around on you shock, if you learned that your peers at other companies were making perhaps 20-30% more than you, for doing the same work, wouldn't you find a way to catch up with them? I think anyone with any sense of economic rationality would say "yes."

And yes, HC points out, this article is complete speculation. The author has no concrete leads, no facts other than a player wasn't at camp. HE might be right, but I don't see anything credible in the article to support that hypothesis.

VikemanX84
08-07-2005, 09:25 PM
First I agree that this is blown way out of proportion. Daunte might want a new cantract, and he probably deserves one, but he isn't going to hold out in the middle of training camp.

Second, If I wanted more money, I'd go out and get another job that pays more. Then I suppose if my current work wanted me enough they would offer me more money then the other job offer. It happened to this LadyI worked with. Unhappy with making 6 dollars an hour she went and got a new got at BP which paid 8. She was a good employee so in order to keep her my boss offered her the 8 dollars an hour to stay at Taco Bell, she chose BP anyway, but hey, thats how I'd negoiate more money. It seems to me players are just doing that "Hey, Washington will be a bazillion dollars so either you give me a raise on par with that or I'll hold-out until you trade me to them".

Also, If owners can just cut players after signing contract with them, why can't players work out new deals?

There are a lot of these problems in football. And it has to be brough under control for the good of the game. I'm not sure guarenteing contracts is a good idea just because of salary cap purposes but we have to do something.

I don't have to much of a problem with a player who has proven himself holding out, what really frosts me is when Rookies hold out. I really think that rookies should get a set salary based on position drafted. there is no way Alex Smith should be getting the ammount of money he is. Also it is so important for rookies to be on camp on time. I think each rookie should get a 3 year contract for a set ammount for each pick (#1 pick gets a 3-year 9 million dollar contract) but those should be guarenteed. And then when that contract is up they should be a Restricted Free Agent that year and that year could be like their rookie year as far as contracts go. I think this would go a long way in making sure that rookie salaries don't cripple a teams salary cap (because they shouldn't) but it protects the rookie and the team better.


I guess with Veterans holding out, we could have some kind of arbitration things (only a better system than baseball). If a player wants to hold out then the case is heard by the league and based on when he signed the contract, the current contract, the age of the player, and how he has done the last 2-3 years. It can't be like baseball tho where Kyle Lohse gets more money for posting an ERA of over 5, thats dumb.

DaunteHOF
08-07-2005, 10:00 PM
don't mess this season up, I want this superbowl, everything needs to be smooth...

happy camper
08-07-2005, 10:09 PM
"Caine" wrote:

"happy camper" wrote:

whats the big deal about atheletes making so much money?

thier job is in high demade. players can say "im not comming to work until i get paid more" because their job is in high demade, and if the player wants out, then the vikings cant just go get another daunte culpepper.

now, for us "normal people" its different. why? because if we say "im not comming to work until i get paid more" its easy to go out and find another accountant, or another construction worker or another mcdonalds employee.

now, for us "normal people" if we have a job, and we are great at it, and nobody else can do it. we can walk in and ask for more money and get it. because you're in demand. if nobody else can do your job like you can, you can demand more money.

A very valid set of points...minus one element. He signed a CONTRACT. I didn't. No one I work with did. No one I deal with on a regular basis did. Culpepper - and every other professional athlete - did.

The reason he was able to sign said contract in the first place is that he is personally valuable. He's a gifted athlete. Obviously, the Vikings desire his services. So, an agreement was reached whereby his services would be made available to the Vikings in exchanged for a predetermined rate of compensation.

And that's the same story all over professional sports. Agreements are reached, and contracts are signed.

In recent years, however, the trend of "Renegotiation" has become increasingly popular. Due, no doubt, to the foolish teams in the 80's and 90's that agreed to "renegotiate" with a petulant athlete. None of them HAD to...but they all got weak in the knees and caved in.

Now, however, teams like Philadelphia and Green Bay have said, "Enough"...and I applaud that.

The bottom line is "YOU signed that contract". The players had representation there, it isn't like they were led to the table by the greedy owner and wound up trading Manhattan for a bunch of beads and blankets. They were represented by someone who understands the gobbldy-gook in contracts, and who was trying to sign the best deal possible.

Now, as the benchmark raises, they suddenly realize, "Oh snap!! I would be worth MORE money if I was on the market". But YOU AREN"T ON THE MARKET, DUMMY!!!!!

If players don't want to be overtaken financially, sign shorter deals. That reduces the chances of a team cutting you to save roster bonuses or to eliminate the heavy end of your deal. Of course, that also means that the burden to perform lies heavier upon you. Fewer guarantees and so forth.

Someday, the players will have to learn that they can't have it both ways. I just wish that more teams would grow a set and stand firm.

Caine

teams dont have to honor a conract they make with a player. so why should a player not have the right to renegotiate?

they shouldnt even call it a contract. neither side stays with them. they should call them 'agreements for the time being'.

caine, you're right. i really think you're right. the only thing is, i beleive the player can renegotiate, because if the team wants to, they can. everyone thinks its right when the team does it.

ADubya26
08-07-2005, 10:31 PM
Last update: August 7, 2005 at 1:42 PM
Vikings reach agreement on Culpepper contract, including hefty raise
Kevin Seifert, Star Tribune
August 8, 2005 VIKE0808.OL

The Vikings reached agreement today on a restructured contract for quarterback Daunte Culpepper, one that includes a major pay raise.

Rob Brzezinski, the Vikings' vice president of football operations, confirmed the deal was struck. He would not reveal specifics but called the pay raise "significant."

Culpepper signed a 10-year, $102 million contract prior to the 2003 season. That deal was largely incentive-based, however. Culpepper received a $2.5 million roster bonus in March, but according to NFL Players Association records, his base salary for this season would have been $540,000.

The new deal will guarantee Culpepper higher salaries throughout his career with the Vikings.

"He's a premier player in this league," Brzezinski said.

Kevin Seifert is at kseifert@startribune.com.


Read this over at VikingUpdate.com

fourdoorchevelle
08-07-2005, 10:31 PM
"shockzilla" wrote:

Turn this situation around for a minute: If you or I, or any of us "normal" citizens, were to want to "renegotiate" our salaries in mid-work, what do you think would happen? We'd be either laughed off the job or fired. I just think that these highly-overpaid "athletes" live in a totally different world than you or I, and it's really ridiculous the amount of money these guys make, compared to some teacher's salaries (right, VS?). My feeling is, you sign a contract, you HONOR that contract - no ifs, ands or buts, PERIOD. Then, at the end of the contract, look to make more money. I'm tired of doling out MY hard-earned paycheck for tickets and paraphenalia, just to keep these people in their Maserati's and bling-bling.

maybe your in the wrong field . you should have played football .

look if you don't think they're worth the money don't buy the tickets and merchandise . they can make the money because the nfl has cornered the market . if they weren't worth the money they would not get the money . they make such a great product that they can charge the prices they do and they can pay the contracts they do .

it may be a shame that our top paid employees are mear entertainers . but it it right that thousands died in the gladiator games ? the public gets what they want . and the market is the nfl , not the afl , or the canadian league . they don't make near the money . why not ? they do the same thing . no demand .

so if your contract doesn't buy porche's or marble counter tops , who's fault is it? corner your market!!


and as far as asking for a raise i'm sure that it happens all the time . being a skilled auto mechanic . i am sure to ask $1 raise every 6 months to a year . do i get laughed off the job? no . do i get fired? no . they either give me the dollar or risk losing me as a mechanic . out of 8 yrs of mechanics i have only been turned down once . but found another job paying $2 more an hour .

cajunvike
08-07-2005, 10:49 PM
Looks like this whole discussion is a MOOT point...as far as Pep is concerned. The Vikes stepped up...now we can move on with no problems! Sorry Los! LOL

run_ronnie
08-07-2005, 10:52 PM
deal re-worked

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2127999

sorry if this is a dual post

LuckyVike
08-07-2005, 11:05 PM
It's good to see that this got taken car of and didn't turn into a nasty situation but I really don't think Culpepper would do that to the team.

6-KINGS
08-07-2005, 11:17 PM
Wow things are different in Vikingland.

I think in the past this would have becoma a major issue.
To the point of trouble in the locker room.

Cold it be possible we have a "real" owner?

If we do I am not sure what to expect, we have never really had a good owner.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/6-kings/6-KINGSDFWSWAN.jpg

LuckyVike
08-07-2005, 11:27 PM
"6-KINGS" wrote:

Wow things are different in Vikingland.

I think in the past this would have becoma a major issue.
To the point of trouble in the locker room.

Cold it be possible we have a "real" owner?

If we do I am not sure what to expect, we have never really had a good owner.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/6-kings/6-KINGSDFWSWAN.jpg

Yes, Wilf is great! He just keeps doing things to keep the fans along with the players happy. I hope he keeps this up throughout his ownership of the team.

vikesfan
08-07-2005, 11:32 PM
This deal has been in the works since January??? You gotta love that. Nothing leaked to the media, fans, or anyone else. Pep showed up to camp on time, stayed positive, and doesn't say anything at all to bring down the team or ownership. I love it!!! It's amazing that nobody found out about this until the deal was basically done, giving the media no opportunity to turn it into a negative thing. I'm truly feeling that with Zygi in charge, things are going to be much smoother here in Vikingsland.

Mr Anderson
08-08-2005, 12:18 AM
It's nothing, if he wants anything, it's more guaranteed cash.


So, I am worried about nothing involving him, he will not hold out, and we're gonna be fine.

We'll give him any money he wants, especially with Wilf as our owner.

LuckyVike
08-08-2005, 12:53 AM
"Mr Anderson" wrote:

It's nothing, if he wants anything, it's more guaranteed cash.


So, I am worried about nothing involving him, he will not hold out, and we're gonna be fine.

We'll give him any money he wants, especially with Wilf as our owner.

The deal is already done. :smile:

Mr Anderson
08-08-2005, 01:05 AM
"Vikes2611" wrote:

"Mr Anderson" wrote:

It's nothing, if he wants anything, it's more guaranteed cash.


So, I am worried about nothing involving him, he will not hold out, and we're gonna be fine.

We'll give him any money he wants, especially with Wilf as our owner.

The deal is already done. :smile:


I jsut read the article and posted, didn't bother to read the rest of the thread, figured nothing had happened yet.

jackyl
08-08-2005, 01:14 AM
"shockzilla" wrote:

Turn this situation around for a minute: If you or I, or any of us "normal" citizens, were to want to "renegotiate" our salaries in mid-work, what do you think would happen? We'd be either laughed off the job or fired. I just think that these highly-overpaid "athletes" live in a totally different world than you or I, and it's really ridiculous the amount of money these guys make, compared to some teacher's salaries (right, VS?). My feeling is, you sign a contract, you HONOR that contract - no ifs, ands or buts, PERIOD. Then, at the end of the contract, look to make more money. I'm tired of doling out MY hard-earned paycheck for tickets and paraphenalia, just to keep these people in their Maserati's and bling-bling.

Doesn't work that way.... in this case at any point in time the EMPLOYER can choose not to honor the contract. It's a 2 way street. The contract can be voided at will by the team, so the player should get what he can, when he can. It's as simple as that.

Mr Anderson
08-08-2005, 01:16 AM
anyone know any details?

VKG4LFE
08-08-2005, 01:17 AM
This is the last thing we need. I don't think he is going to holdout or anything is he? I thought he was trying to restructure and it would help the team? I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if someone already put down exactly what was going on.

RandyMoss8404
08-08-2005, 01:21 AM
Hahaha

If he had corn rows this would be on the front page of the Chicago Tribune.

Let us not worry, it should blow over.

Ltrey33
08-08-2005, 03:05 AM
Well thank goodness they got it inked out quickly. Very little to no distraction there, which is a very good thing.

LuckyVike
08-08-2005, 03:30 AM
This post is for everyone new to this thread. The deal is already done but details have not been released. Search in the thread for a link to the story. :smile:

bono
08-08-2005, 04:17 AM
I TOTALLY AGREE W/ JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING EVERYONE HAS SAID. True, teachers (who play one of the biggest roles in mankind's learning...heck, Bill Gates just didn't wake up one day with those smarts!) SHOULD be one of the TOP paid professionals in the WORLD!! That's right, the world!!! It's because of them that us packer backers/viking lovers can go online and chat/post, etc. True, doctors, police officers, marines, contruction workers, CROSSING GUARDS, etc, deserve way more money for what they're doing, than any pro athelete, actor/actress, musical artist. But, the fact of the matter is that many human beings -although they know sports and entertainment are just a past time to relax our minds/give us some enjoyment-would rather spend MORE money on sports and entertainment related type of things. That's the reason why these industries are so wealthy, and can afford to pay their workers such lucrative salaries: such a HIGH DEMAND!!!!! Heck, if more people would show just half the love/concern/support/enthusiasm for teachers, u.s. marines, CROSSING GUARDS, etc, it could cause employers to be more specific/strict in their qualifications...causing these lines of business to be hard to get into...making those who are able to get one of these jobs, wealthy. They'd be like a Daunte Culpepper, Michael Vick or Brett Favre: such high demand; so very few who can step up to the plate.

ItalianStallion
08-08-2005, 05:37 AM
In an effort to be controversial, I have to say...teachers get paid enough. I could walk into a class (grade 1-12) and teach the subject at least as well as any teacher who taught me, and that is not a rip at my teachers. I have a lot more respect for University Professors who actually teach you something that my be too challenging to learn simply by reading a book. That being said I have even more respect for those professors who actually contribute to the global knowledge pool by doing research as well as teaching, rather than those who simply repeat the material of the curriculum present in the teacher's edition.

Sure it is an important job, but I have to say this: The reason athletes, doctors, successful business entrepreneurs etc. deserve a lot of money is because they do something that a large majority of the world cannot do.

I can honeslty say I would trade any teacher for a Culpepper who can win the vikes a Superbowl.

I apologize if I've offended any of the multiple teachers on this site, but that's just my opinion.

LosAngelis
08-08-2005, 05:44 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:

In an effort to be controversial, I have to say...teachers get paid enough. I could walk into a class (grade 1-12) and teach the subject at least as well as any teacher who taught me, and that is not a rip at my teachers. I have a lot more respect for University Professors who actually teach you something that my be too challenging to learn simply by reading a book. That being said I have even more respect for those professors who actually contribute to the global knowledge pool by doing research as well as teaching, rather than those who simply repeat the material of the curriculum present in the teacher's edition.

Sure it is an important job, but I have to say this: The reason athletes, doctors, successful business entrepreneurs etc. deserve a lot of money is because they do something that a large majority of the world cannot do.

I can honeslty say I would trade any teacher for a Culpepper who can win the vikes a Superbowl.

I apologize if I've offended any of the multiple teachers on this site, but that's just my opinion.

Meh.

If teaching were about teaching subject matter, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

And there are many poor teachers out there for whom subject matter is about all they do.

But then, there's folks like this:


The topic of what I do for a living often comes up in social situations.

When I say "I teach high school," the response is almost always the same - a gaping mouth and no comment. If there is a comment, it is usually something in the area of "Oh, that's nice" or "That must be rewarding." Then the conversation usually drifts off toward subjects of the weather or the local sports team.

I often wish that the conversation would stay on the topic of teaching.

I love teaching. I talk about it every chance I get. I come from a family of teachers. Both of my parents teach, my grandfather has taught Sunday School for more than 25 years, and my great-great-grandmother was a teacher. I can't remember a time when I didn't want to be in a classroom. Now that I'm in one, I never want to leave.

Most of my college friends went on into the business world. A majority of them work in the computer industry. One friend recently asked me if I ever wanted to change my job and come work at her company. I thought about it briefly.

Yes, I would make more money and have a more "prestigious" career in the eyes of society, but there were no personal rewards in it for me. We all know that teachers are grossly underpaid and overworked, but if you ask them, many would respond that they wouldn't want to do anything else.

To me, the personal rewards of teaching outweigh the financial rewards. I find delight in watching students' eyes light up when they finally "get" a concept or lesson that we have been working on. I am thrilled when my students talk about a lesson that they are really excited about. I enjoy laughing with my students over a funny comment or situation.

Teaching allows me to create relationships with students that can be lifelong, for both the student and the teacher.

It is a wonderful feeling to have students send you letters from college or stop by on break to let you know how they are doing. This to me is more rewarding than receiving a bonus at work or winning a vacation trip for meeting a quota.

Of course, as with any job, teaching can be difficult and demanding. There are times when students confide in teachers about situations that could be life-changing to them, such as a pregnancy, or life-threatening, such as wishing to commit suicide.

This doesn't happen often, but when it does, it breaks a teacher's heart. A teacher doesn't always teach his or her best lessons in the classroom - sometimes these "life lessons" occur in the hallways between classes or in the nurse's office with a student in tears. A teacher wears many hats - instructor, part-time parent, cheerleader, counselor, and, sometimes, best friend.

We are all familiar with the adage "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." On a daily basis, I can, I do, and I teach.

I greet each day with enthusiasm and hope. I wish for my students to see the love I have for learning and pray that they too develop that love.

Maybe someday some of my students - some of the lucky ones - will feel the same passion I do and will end up as teachers themselves. For their sake, and that of the children they will touch, I certainly hope so.


Link (http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0427/p12s01-legn.htm)

bono
08-08-2005, 05:51 AM
so you mean to tell me Stallion, that a large majority of the world can teach (school curriculum wise)? Ha! That's such a joke, kiddo!
And as far as professors and college students go: those college students have to FIRST be TAUGHT by grade school teachers, in order to get to that level where they can dissect what professors say.
Teaching is NOT easy. Not MOST folks can do it. A first grade teacher who has the right agenda, can't just tell his/her students that 3 + 3 = 6 one time, and expect them to NOT forget it ever again! It takes special skills, to be able to reach out to each individual students' needs, in order to make their learning experience a pleasant/non-wasteful one. Teachers are handed a bunch of students who come from all backgrounds...ways of life, and are expected to teach them a specific subject. Maybe teachers don't have to try as hard, once students get into high school (capable of thinking intelligently on their own, for the most part), but it's not so easy to teach a kindergartener how to say/remember their abcs, 1,2,3s, etc.
I've had my share of professors, and most of them are HORRIBLE! All they do is yap about what they know, but never really TEACH. It's not that easy to learn from a person who only yaps and yaps about something they know, w/o some actual TEACHING of the subject!!!

ItalianStallion
08-08-2005, 05:56 AM
I agree with most of that Los. I'm never against any job if a person is doing what they love. I respect teachers who do what they do because they love it. I'm just saying when they decide to become teachers, knowing what industry they are entering, knowing the pay, knowing the workload, should not expect more pay/acknowledgement/time off afterwards.

In Canada, a teacher out od school STARTS at about 40-45,000 a year. Thatis more than at least 50% of job you can get with a university degree. Granted, if you do that your entire life, you may only make as much as 70,000 a year, but hey, you love to teach.

Hell, I wish I could have summers off, and I'm a student :).

jessejames09
08-08-2005, 05:56 AM
Bono you must be finished school.

ItalianStallion
08-08-2005, 06:03 AM
Bono, I'm saying most everyone who did fairly well in school (grades 1-12) could teach at the level that seems to be required to be employed as a teacher.

I agree that it takes talent and dedication to be a great teacher.
I agree that it is harder to teach younger children.

However, I was taught by my parents as much as any elementary school teacher my abc's and basic subject matter. There is a reason lots of people are home-schooled. You're not going to see the average parent take a shot at home-open heart surgery. All I can say is teachers should be paid based on performance, but that isn't the way it usually works.

But anyway, this is pretty off topic. I think if the Vikes want to give Daunte more money, he deserves it, at least compared to the rest of the proffessionals in his field.

Kleinsasser40
08-08-2005, 06:20 AM
Wow. The need for a new deal and the reworking happened before I even knew there was a problem. Now THAT is how a team and a player are supposed to work. Smooth as my Jazz bass skills! BAM!

ItalianStallion
08-08-2005, 06:29 AM
"Kleinsasser40" wrote:

Wow. The need for a new deal and the reworking happened before I even knew there was a problem. Now THAT is how a team and a player are supposed to work. Smooth as my Jazz bass skills! BAM!

Now if Erasmus realized that we do in fact pay our superstars well, he'd show up at camp :). He just has to prove himself first.

arialassault84
08-08-2005, 06:35 AM
Seems like this deal has been in the works since January, according to yahoo sports. So its not like it was all of a sudden and DC wasn't playing follow the leader, like the rest of the athletes. Maybe Daunte started this whole thing.

canadian_vikes_fan
08-08-2005, 06:42 AM
"ItalianStallion" wrote:

Bono, I'm saying most everyone who did fairly well in school (grades 1-12) could teach at the level that seems to be required to be employed as a teacher.

I agree that it takes talent and dedication to be a great teacher.
I agree that it is harder to teach younger children.

However, I was taught by my parents as much as any elementary school teacher my abc's and basic subject matter. There is a reason lots of people are home-schooled. You're not going to see the average parent take a shot at home-open heart surgery. All I can say is teachers should be paid based on performance, but that isn't the way it usually works.

But anyway, this is pretty off topic. I think if the Vikes want to give Daunte more money, he deserves it, at least compared to the rest of the proffessionals in his field.

I agree, more or less, with what you're saying.

When people talk about pro athlete salaries, they always point to the top-paid players, or even the average (which is brought WAY up because of the top-paid players) and say, "how can he earn x million dollars a year and a doctor only earns 200 grand, blah blah blah." But the thing is, a VERY small percentage of pro athletes earn a lot of money.

Let's look at this years draft. Lets say there are 1000 players eligible for the NFL draft. The first rounders (32 of them, 3.2%) will all earn decent money (assuming they aren't dicks and hold out). A few of the first rounders will end up being stars and earn lots and lots of dough. Lets call it 4 stars, which would be 0.4%. Then there are the 2nd to 4th rounders who will all earn a decent living. But all the guys after that, about 900 of them who are late rounders or rookie free agents, will only earn a bit. Let's take Adrion Ward for example. He signed a deal with the Vikings and will probably earn about $1 million all told, because I don't see him becoming a star. He's gonna be 25-26, unemployed, and with no experience or knowledge of how to work in any other profession. (I don't actually know in Ward's case I'm just assuming). Everyone else who have other career goals have been preparing for their profession for the last 7 or 8 years of their life, and all these guys have missed that.

The only way you can ever get people to take the chance and try to make a living in professional sports is if you have a pot o gold and the end of the rainbow.

magicci
08-08-2005, 07:24 AM
culpepper deserves the pay raise he got.

Caine
08-08-2005, 10:10 AM
Obviously, I am in the minority on this topic. I cringe at the words "Contract Renegotiation". I detest the very idea of a hold out.

Jackyl points out - correctly - that teams will often cut players who are making too much (As Green Bay did with Sharper), so the guarantee doesn't work both ways...


....or does it?


Contracts consist of (in short) up front money, guaranteed money, and accelerators. those terms should be fairly obvious in their meanings. Obviously, when Daunte signed a 10 year 100 million+ dollar contract, that contract was end loaded (The bulk of the money arriving in the latter years) meaning that the Vikes likely wouldn't have wound up paying it.

But, isn't that what the signing bonus is for? That bonus is designed to offset the money you likely WON'T get, by giving you a substantial chunk up front - money you theoretically haven't earned. And, if you fall flat, you don't pay it back.

So, Daunte and his agent have decided that he's worth more now, 2 years after signing his 1st extension. Isn't that kind of silly? With the bonus, figure that Daunte made about 16 million over the last two years - 8 million per year. And now he decides he wants more.

What bothers me most is the quote from his agent,
`We'll see what happens, and, hopefully, as time goes on we can continue to revisit it and keep it at market value,' Ashe said.

So, every couple of years, Daunte's going to ask for a boost in pay? What happens when he starts tapering off? Is he going to offer to take a cut?

At some point in time, the game has to stop being about the money. That thinking ruined Baseball and killed hockey...with Basketball not far behind. Sure, you can do something not many others can do, but at some point in time that no longer washes.

Caine

jackyl
08-08-2005, 10:23 AM
"Caine" wrote:

Jackyl points out - correctly - that teams will often cut players who are making too much (As Green Bay did with Sharper), so the guarantee doesn't work both ways...


....or does it?


No it doesn't.... less than 30% of player contracts have ANY guaranteed $ amount and most that do still fall well under 15% of the full contract value. Cases like Peps and large advanced $ / Bonus $ are in the minority. Since that's the case contracts not being honored are still heavily weighted on the side of the franchises.

LuckyVike
08-08-2005, 10:23 AM
With that essay, Caine has lured me to his side of this arguement. :lol:

collegeguyjeff
08-08-2005, 12:34 PM
what i have read it seems that the team offered to do it. and also wilf was all for it and blessed the contract re-do but im sure there will be more years added on. cause culpeppers annual pay is less than 600k minus bounus's and stuff like that. if culpepper gets 3000 yards one year and 4000 the next ofcourse he should get paid more, the new contract i guess has more bonus money and incentives plus it's mostly performance based pay. the vikings even agreed that culpepper needs to be paid more like one of the top quarterbacks in the league. anyways if you thought you deserved more and they did too work something out right? it's not like they are going to pay him an extra 5 mil a year just cause he's in the top 2 qb's in the league. he will probably get more like 2.5 mil extra.

and another thing, would you rather them rework the contract next year? what if we needed 1 player to win the super bowl but we couldn't afford him cause they reworked the deal when they needed the money? even though smoots contract frees up something like 9 mil next year or something like that oh how sweet it is. were gonna probably have about 20-25 mil under the cap next year not like we need more people but we might need a big time running back cause there might be a good free agent there next year if things don't work out good enough with our other runners.

Caine
08-08-2005, 07:56 PM
"jackyl" wrote:

"Caine" wrote:

Jackyl points out - correctly - that teams will often cut players who are making too much (As Green Bay did with Sharper), so the guarantee doesn't work both ways...


....or does it?


No it doesn't.... less than 30% of player contracts have ANY guaranteed $ amount and most that do still fall well under 15% of the full contract value. Cases like Peps and large advanced $ / Bonus $ are in the minority. Since that's the case contracts not being honored are still heavily weighted on the side of the franchises.

And yet, the VAST majority of the holdouts come from the aforementioned 30% (The ones getting guaranteed money)...so wouldn't that be an even wash on that score?

The caveat placed on all contracts - from the teams POV - is a performance one. You don't perform this year, don't expect to be paid next year. Kind of like everyone else's job ib that regard - if I can't do it, they'll fire me and bring in someone who can. Yet, these "Role Players" seldom are the source of holdouts and/or contract disputes...why? Because they aren't in as great of a demand. They are replaceable.

So, you're left with two classes of guys who create the hub-bub - the guys who already get the big $$$ and want more, or the guys who are early in their career, have started to hit their stride, and want more (The T.O.s and the Jovan Walkers).

That tells me that the system is skewed....badly. The top tier players -the guys already making the biggest chunks - are the ones demanding more, while the bottom 70% gets less and less, and winds up losing their jobs because the teams could - and did - replace them cheaper, or was FORCED to in order to appease the big guns.

So, the only people who benefit from this process is the top 30%...the guys who don't really need the leverage. The bottom 70% - the guys who create the vast majority of your statistic - aren't positively affected by hold outs and renegotiation because they'll never be in a position to do it. Instead, they have to fight over an increasingly smaller part of the pie because the marquee guys are taking more and more.

So, when you add in the rest of the picture, how are these disputes beneficial to the NFL as a whole? They aren't. They benefit a small minority, and the majority suffer. If the trend continues - and it shows no sign of slowing - the impact will be disadvantageous to the NFL as a whole, and the bottom 70% of the NFL players specifically.

After all, how would you like to watch Daunte Culpepper and the "No-Name" Vikings? I wouldn't. But, as he escallates his salary, there's one more quality player we can't afford, and one more lesser player we brought in to fill that slot.

Caine

ItalianStallion
08-09-2005, 12:59 AM
As Culpepper's career tapers off, he may in fact have to take a pay cut.

magicci
08-09-2005, 02:13 AM
culpeppes is the kind of QB who is understanding with the team, i think he will be willing to take a pay cut if he absolutely has to. in 2013 i think he will still be a good QB

Caine
08-09-2005, 09:04 PM
"magicci" wrote:

culpeppes is the kind of QB who is understanding with the team, i think he will be willing to take a pay cut if he absolutely has to. in 2013 i think he will still be a good QB

Let's be clear on one thing - I love having Culpepper in purple. I think he's a wee bit rough in a couple of spots, but he's got the skill set to take us the distance...something I haven't felt about a Viking QB in a loooooooong time.

I sincerely hope he IS the kind of guy who will put the team first...time will tell.

That said, everything else I wrote still applies.

Caine