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JWalkRulz84
06-08-2005, 08:37 AM
So we are all eager to start the season and on paper, it seems as though the Vikes not only have the strongest team in the division, but possibly the strongest team in the NFC. I was interested to give my opinion on position comparisons and see what you guys think here. Let me know what you think...

QB - Brett Favre vs. Daunte Culpepper
While C-Pep has a clear advantage in statistics and athleticism, Favre has the ability to "will" the Pack to victory. Both these QB's are the backbone of their teams and each team would be in serious trouble if they were lost. ADVANTAGE: EVEN

RB - Ahman Green vs. Michael Bennett/Mewelde Moore/Moe Williams
Ahman Green is going to get his 1300 yards and 10 TD's every season. The Vikes running backs were not very impressive last season but I really think Bennett is gonna buck up and stay healthy this year. That remains to be seen however and C-Pepp picks up quite a bit of yards himself instead of the running backs.
ADVANTAGE: AHMAN GREEN (PACKERS)

FB - William Henderson vs. Jim Kleinsasser
Henderson finally got the recognition he deserved last season by making it to his first pro-bowl. He has paved the way for Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens, and Ahman Green. He is a savvy vet who does not miss an assignment. Kleiny is very good out of the backfield. Very solid blocker but its tough to compete when you are on the sidelines with an injury and Hendo has been a monster.
ADVANTAGE: WILLIAM HENDERSON (PACKERS)

WR - Javon Walker/Donald Driver/Robert Ferguson vs. Nate Burleson/Troy Williamson/Marcus Robinson
This isn't much of a debate. While there is clear potential for the Vikes, the Pack have 2 1000+ yd receivers and one of them is an All-Pro. The Vikes receivers will have to step up in the absence of Moss. Burleson will be solid but the questions of Williamson and Robinson stepping up are questionable.
ADVANTAGE: WALKER/DRIVER/FERGUSON (PACKERS)

OL - (Clifton, Klemm, Flanagan, Barry, Tauscher) vs. (McKinnie, Goldberg, Birk, Liwienski, Rosenthal)
The losses of Wahle and Rivera hurt the Pack. However, the solid pick ups of Adrian Klemm and Matt O'Dwyer were big and Kevin Barry has always had a great upside to him. The Pack already have solid players in Clifton, Flanagan and Tauscher. Birk is the best in the Biz at center and if his injury is bad, it will be very costly. Both these lines appear to be strong at the tackle and center positions, however the guards might be where its tough.
ADVANTAGE: EVEN

DL - KGB, Kampman, Jackson, Hunt vs. Udeze, Williams x 2, James
This is not even close. The Vikes Defensive line is absolutely rock solid. A lot of potential on the ends and dominance in the middle. The Pack's only real talented players are KGB and Jackson. The Vikes D-Line could destroy opponents O-Line this year if Udeze and James can be solid. The Pack's D-Line has some potential Players but it doesnt look good this year.
ADVANTAGE: UDEZE, WILLIAMS x 2, JAMES (VIKINGS)

Linebackers - Diggs, Barnett, Thompson vs. Harris, Cowart, Thomas
This is the only weak spot in the Vikes defense. I thought they sort of failed to address this in the offseason despite the additions of Cowart and Harris. Harris and Thomas have a lot of upside and potential where as Cowart is there for his leadership presence. Barnett is a big playmaker, Diggs is very solid on the strong side and Thompson is very speedy and quick to the ball. This is the strongest part of the Packer defense.
ADVANTAGE: DIGGS, BARNETT, THOMPSON (PACKERS)

Cornerbacks - Carroll and Harris vs. Winfield and Smoot
Im not going to even go there. Winfield and Smoot are the best duo in the NFC, maybe even the NFL.
ADVANTAGE: WINFIELD and SMOOT (VIKINGS)

Safeties - Freeman and Collins vs. Sharper and Chavous
Again, this isnt even close. Two vets capable of big plays. I dont even know who the Packers starting safeties will be.
ADVANTAGE: SHARPER and CHAVOUS (VIKINGS)

What do you guys think?

VikingsM4
06-08-2005, 09:35 AM
I do agree with alot of things....However I think our linebackers will do better then you think because it will be Roanall Smith instead of Thomas...So it will be Cowart, Harris, and Smith which if smith stays healthy...He could definitly be a star. :shock:

VikingsM4
06-08-2005, 09:36 AM
And you forgot about Travis Taylor...Who has looked really really good so far this offseason in our wr corp. :mad:

akvikefan89
06-08-2005, 10:38 AM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

So we are all eager to start the season and on paper, it seems as though the Vikes not only have the strongest team in the division, but possibly the strongest team in the NFC. I was interested to give my opinion on position comparisons and see what you guys think here. Let me know what you think...

QB - Brett Favre vs. Daunte Culpepper
While C-Pep has a clear advantage in statistics and athleticism, Favre has the ability to "will" the Pack to victory. Both these QB's are the backbone of their teams and each team would be in serious trouble if they were lost. ADVANTAGE: EVEN

RB - Ahman Green vs. Michael Bennett/Mewelde Moore/Moe Williams
Ahman Green is going to get his 1300 yards and 10 TD's every season. The Vikes running backs were not very impressive last season but I really think Bennett is gonna buck up and stay healthy this year. That remains to be seen however and C-Pepp picks up quite a bit of yards himself instead of the running backs.
ADVANTAGE: AHMAN GREEN (PACKERS)

FB - William Henderson vs. Jim Kleinsasser
Henderson finally got the recognition he deserved last season by making it to his first pro-bowl. He has paved the way for Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens, and Ahman Green. He is a savvy vet who does not miss an assignment. Kleiny is very good out of the backfield. Very solid blocker but its tough to compete when you are on the sidelines with an injury and Hendo has been a monster.
ADVANTAGE: WILLIAM HENDERSON (PACKERS)

WR - Javon Walker/Donald Driver/Robert Ferguson vs. Nate Burleson/Troy Williamson/Marcus Robinson
This isn't much of a debate. While there is clear potential for the Vikes, the Pack have 2 1000+ yd receivers and one of them is an All-Pro. The Vikes receivers will have to step up in the absence of Moss. Burleson will be solid but the questions of Williamson and Robinson stepping up are questionable.
ADVANTAGE: WALKER/DRIVER/FERGUSON (PACKERS)

OL - (Clifton, Klemm, Flanagan, Barry, Tauscher) vs. (McKinnie, Goldberg, Birk, Liwienski, Rosenthal)
The losses of Wahle and Rivera hurt the Pack. However, the solid pick ups of Adrian Klemm and Matt O'Dwyer were big and Kevin Barry has always had a great upside to him. The Pack already have solid players in Clifton, Flanagan and Tauscher. Birk is the best in the Biz at center and if his injury is bad, it will be very costly. Both these lines appear to be strong at the tackle and center positions, however the guards might be where its tough.
ADVANTAGE: EVEN

DL - KGB, Kampman, Jackson, Hunt vs. Udeze, Williams x 2, James
This is not even close. The Vikes Defensive line is absolutely rock solid. A lot of potential on the ends and dominance in the middle. The Pack's only real talented players are KGB and Jackson. The Vikes D-Line could destroy opponents O-Line this year if Udeze and James can be solid. The Pack's D-Line has some potential Players but it doesnt look good this year.
ADVANTAGE: UDEZE, WILLIAMS x 2, JAMES (VIKINGS)

Linebackers - Diggs, Barnett, Thompson vs. Harris, Cowart, Thomas
This is the only weak spot in the Vikes defense. I thought they sort of failed to address this in the offseason despite the additions of Cowart and Harris. Harris and Thomas have a lot of upside and potential where as Cowart is there for his leadership presence. Barnett is a big playmaker, Diggs is very solid on the strong side and Thompson is very speedy and quick to the ball. This is the strongest part of the Packer defense.
ADVANTAGE: DIGGS, BARNETT, THOMPSON (PACKERS)

Cornerbacks - Carroll and Harris vs. Winfield and Smoot
Im not going to even go there. Winfield and Smoot are the best duo in the NFC, maybe even the NFL.
ADVANTAGE: WINFIELD and SMOOT (VIKINGS)

Safeties - Freeman and Collins vs. Sharper and Chavous
Again, this isnt even close. Two vets capable of big plays. I dont even know who the Packers starting safeties will be.
ADVANTAGE: SHARPER and CHAVOUS (VIKINGS)

What do you guys think?

Add Travis Taylor. He is looking great in minicamp. Potential #2. The Packers linebackers better than the Vikes!? come on... Three new, mistake prone youngsters vs. A veteran leader, a loud team motivator, and THEN a young newer guy. Disagree with the LB's. Favre = Culpepper is stupid. Simple as that. Henderson made it to the Pro Bowl becasue Kleinsassar was INJURED! let us see who is in the Pro Bowl this year. The offensive line rating is also a joke. You forgot to put on Marcus Johson who, in case you didn't follow was a SECOND ROUND DRAFT PICK! this guy is looking like a beast in minicamp, unlike the old no-names the Pack will have to start.

This post is ridiculous. :sleepy4:

midgensa
06-08-2005, 10:56 AM
Not too bad except we are BETTER at QB and we are at least even at WR. You DO NOT HAVE AN ALL-PRO receiver, you have a pro bowl receiver, MUCH different ... by the way, his best year as a No. 1 is barely better than Burleson's best as a No. 2 ... and the No.2-4 guys are clearly better on the purple side.
Also, our LBs are even at least ... the only position you are hands down BETTER at is RB, maybe FB, but that is close too ... but at least you tried to be objective, so I can take that from a troll.

outcast316
06-08-2005, 01:53 PM
come on guys I thought JWalk did a pretty good job. We are all a little biased. I only have one question...do you think that Jimmy K and Henderson are about even...look what happend to the Vikes running game last year when he got hurt.

Del Rio
06-08-2005, 02:03 PM
Sasser gives more to the Vikes then Henderson does to the pack. His ability to become a sure handed TE is a huge bonus.

That and the QB situation is advantage Vikings.

EKJ08
06-08-2005, 02:44 PM
Favre has had a great career but I would take Culpepper over him in a second right now in their careers. The playoff game last January was a passing of the torch in my opinion. Culpepper had one of the best years ever as a QB and if Manning didn't ahve the year he did he would be getting more props.

josdin00
06-08-2005, 04:13 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

QB - Brett Favre vs. Daunte Culpepper
While C-Pep has a clear advantage in statistics and athleticism, Favre has the ability to "will" the Pack to victory. Both these QB's are the backbone of their teams and each team would be in serious trouble if they were lost. ADVANTAGE: EVEN

I personally disagree with this, but in the interest of attempting not to be biased, I'll leave your assesment alone on the starters. However, we've seen Culpepper get injured before for a couple weeks, and with Farve getting up there in age, I don't think you can completely discount the possibility that the backups for both teams might have to play some significant downs. So, I think this analysis needs to also include Johnson vs. Niall/Rodgers. Admittedly, I don't know a lot about the Packers back-ups, but what I've read recently indicates that both are struggling in mini-camps. I haven't seen Niall play much, so that's all I really have to go on. However, we've seen Johnson perform well in the past in Minnesota, and we've seen him win a superbowl with the Bucs. ADVANTAGE: JOHNSON (VIKINGS)

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

FB - William Henderson vs. Jim Kleinsasser
Henderson finally got the recognition he deserved last season by making it to his first pro-bowl. He has paved the way for Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens, and Ahman Green. He is a savvy vet who does not miss an assignment. Kleiny is very good out of the backfield. Very solid blocker but its tough to compete when you are on the sidelines with an injury and Hendo has been a monster.
ADVANTAGE: WILLIAM HENDERSON (PACKERS)

Basing your final decision on the fact that Kleinsasser was injured last year, when he is not injured now, is not a valid comparison. I'm not sure this comparison is applicible, since the Vikings don't use a fullback very often in their offensive sets. I'd list this either as EVEN, or as N/A.

You also didn't do a comparison of the TE position. I'd be inclined to give that to the Vikings, as Wiggins and Kleinsasser are an impresive duo, and cover a wide range of skills. However, I don't know who the Packers have after Franks (who's still not even under contract as far as I've heard), so this is a pretty incomplete analysis.

willieofford
06-08-2005, 04:28 PM
Jwalker, ur all wrong.

QB-Culpepper so much better than that sissy old hick Favre who is too scared to take a hit so he throws ints.(Eagles vs Packers 2 years ago) VIKINGS

RB- Definitely vikings. UR runningbacks arent that good. Ur offensive line was the best thats why they all could run behind it. Too bad Rivera and Wahle, the two most important people in ur offense are gone. Sad, isnt it?
Bennett is more explosive than Green, Moe Williams Fason and Moore are alot beter than Davenport and Tony Fisher. VIKINGS

FB- WE dont really use one in our offense. WE have a two tight end system or and H-back and a tight end. Ill give u Henderson is better than Berton FUDGE PACKERS

WR- Javon Walker is the best out of all the wrs, but we have more depth than u and all of our wide receivers combined have alot more skill than ferguson, walker, driver,chatman and those two rookies u got. Besides, Walker doesnt even want to play. VIKINGS

TE-Kleinsasser and Wiggins are so much better than Bubba Franks. WE have The best blocking tight end/h back in football in Kleinsasser and wiggins, though not being so athletic is still a valuable weapon VIKINGS

OL- Our o line is going to be better this year because ur two best lineman are gone. VIKINGS

DL- Without a doubt the vikings. They are so much more athletic, faster and more aggressive than Green Bays d line. Plus we got a better big guy in Pat Williams rather than Grady Jackson VIKINGS

LB- us, with the addition Of Napoleon Harris, who has more talent than all ur linebackers combnined. We also have a proven but aging leader in Cowart and Raonall Smith is good when he is healthy. EJ Henderson is going to be a good player too with Cowart helping him out. VIKINGS

CB- Do i even need to answer this?
Ralph Brown is better than all ur Cb's
VIKINGS

S- Another one that is no comparisant-
VIKINGS

K,P- Green BAY Longwell is proven and so is ur punter.

Ill give u guys that u have a great pass rusher in KGB and a great receiver in Walker, but who knows if he will play for u next year.

Have fun being at the basement in 05, the year where the purple takes the trophy home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shockzilla
06-08-2005, 04:38 PM
Pretty good job JWalk... However, I disagree in the following areas:

1) QB - Obviously, these guys are headed in opposite directions, career-wise. I give the advantage to the Vikes.

2) RB - I think this is even. Vikes have quantity, Pack has quality, that makes it even in my book.

3) FB - Like others have said, you didn't take the fact that Kleinsasser was injured last year into account. A fresh Kleinsasser makes this one even.

4) WR - I don't know how you can give the Pack the edge on this one - I say it's even (like someone else said, you forgot to figure in Travis Taylor, a wildcard in the equation).

5) OL - How can you give the edge to the Pack on this? With who you guys lost last year, compared to who you gained, I say it's not even close! Wahle and Rivera where your anchors, and they're both gone. No one can replace them! Advantage Vikes!

Overall, your comments were pretty solid. I give you credit for making an intelligent, thoughtful post WITHOUT being a jerk at all. Good luck to the Pack next year - you're gonna need it!

southern_yankee
06-08-2005, 04:38 PM
Okay, let me first say, I really do appreciate that you are trying to look at the Vikings/Evil People objectively (seriously). The quaterback issue, this one is tough, if we must be objective. I do agree with what folks have said before about back-ups, I believe we have the edge. Favre can just as often burn his team with a last minute interception as a last minute touchdown, but C-pep has those gosh-blasted slippery hands (which we fortunately didn't see much of last year), so turn-over factor is even. Both Q-backs can throw on the run, but Daunte can just plain run-on-the-run, so Daunte wins the mobility factor. Arm strength? I'm trying sooo very hard to be objective, but it seems that right now in their careers, Culpepper is slinging the ball better, longer, more accurately. Add that up, I have to say, the Vikings win on the quarterback.

As for receivers, I do not think it's quite fair to compare the numbers for our wide receiver core minus our major receiver plus one rookie versus an intact core of the Packers. If Moss wasn't on the field, Culpepper would have had to throw to someone else...that someone else's numbers would have been higher. Maybe I'm naive, but I think the receivers tend to be more of a result of the quarterback (with obvious exceptions, i.e. Moss). Not to mention that last I heard, Walker was still delusional about his skills and not back in camp. Even if he doesn't hold out, the chemistry is a little funked up there. I have to say we're likely even here...or we simply can't make the comparison yet.

cajunvike
06-08-2005, 04:50 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:



QB - Brett Favre vs. Daunte Culpepper
While C-Pep has a clear advantage in statistics and athleticism, Favre has the ability to "will" the Pack to victory. Both these QB's are the backbone of their teams and each team would be in serious trouble if they were lost. ADVANTAGE: EVEN

What do you guys think?

Do you SERIOUSLY think that even ONE Viking fan on this board will agree with you here? Get a grip on reality, JSquawk?

If most of the Packer fans here are honest, they will disagree with you also. Pep was better than Favre LAST YEAR...and while Favre will be a Hall of Famer once his career is done, Pep is still on his way UP, while Favre is in serious DECLINE.

What a joke.

OchoCinco
06-08-2005, 04:57 PM
It looks to me that this whole post is propaganda and in large part some "viking envy". You can't really think that Greenbay is actually on the same football page as us, the D sucks, the OL has been depleted, and Ahman Green is a non factor behind that crappy o-line, and Farve has to be standing upright to throw the ball, much less having the Williams duo laying on top of him....sell some cheese, purchase a clue.

DarrinNelsonguy
06-08-2005, 05:12 PM
The only problem I have is with the OL because I think Klemm and Barry are very overrated and the Vikings have a better OL.

cajunvike
06-08-2005, 05:20 PM
"DarrinNelsonguy" wrote:

The only problem I have is with the OL because I think Klemm and Barry are very overrated and the Vikings have a better OL.

You REALLY think Favre and Pep are EVEN? WOW, I was wrong...it does seem that at least ONE Vikings fan agrees with J? :shock:

cajunvike
06-08-2005, 05:20 PM
http://www.purplepride.org/vikes/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11072

PAvikesfan
06-08-2005, 07:09 PM
pretty unbiased but you can stop at favre equalling culpepper... culp is much better than favre will ever be as of last year and this coming year.

you forgot the TE's which the vikes have a clear advantage.

our Oline is now much better since the pack's losses...we have all proven guys where the pack added backups from other teams to start for their horrible offseason Oline woes.

QB: V
HB: P
FB: ?
Oline: V
WR: P
TE: V
Dline: V
LB: Even
CB: V
S: V
K: P

i think we will all be suprised when Burelson and Williamson get 1500 yards with 17 TD's combined. the packer clear win is at HB and Kickers IMO.

V4L
06-08-2005, 07:15 PM
QB- V
RB- P
FB- E
WR- P- If J-walk doesnt hold out
TE- V
OL- V
DL-V
LB- E
CB- V
S- V
ST- P
Coaches- P


Pretty much what i think here..

JWalkRulz84
06-08-2005, 07:17 PM
While I can easily put C-Pep ahead of Favre and also put the Vikes O-Line at an advantage, I dont know where you guys are thinking your receivers are better than ours. Look at the stats from last year...

Javon Walker - 89 Rec. 1382 YDS 12 TD (1 Dropped Pass)
Donald Driver - 84 Rec. 1208 YDS 9 TD
Robert Ferguson - 24 Rec. 367 YDS 1 TD (Injury Plagued Season)
Terrence Murphy - 56 Rec. 721 YDS 4 TD (College Season)

vs.

Nate Burleson - 66 Rec. 1006 YDS 9 TD
Marcus Robinson - 47 Rec. 657 YDS 8 TD
Travis Taylor - 34 Rec. 421 YDS 0 TD
Troy Williamson - 43 Rec. 835 YDS 7 TD (College Season_

Here are the stats plain and simple. I know you guys had Moss last year and stuff, but the only 2 athletes out of this bunch are Burleson and Williamson. I think many of you forget the season Driver had for us last year and 2 years before that. We also have a very good rookie in T-Murph. Our receivers are clearly better than yours. I can fess up to you guys having a better QB Now, a better O-Line, and a draw at Linebackers or Fullback, but you guys are not better than the Pack at every position. Wide Receivers are our best position and you guys are not better, plain and simple.

cajunvike
06-08-2005, 07:21 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

While I can easily put C-Pep ahead of Favre and also put the Vikes O-Line at an advantage, I dont know where you guys are thinking your receivers are better than ours. Look at the stats from last year...

Javon Walker - 89 Rec. 1382 YDS 12 TD (1 Dropped Pass)
Donald Driver - 84 Rec. 1208 YDS 9 TD (Nobody else to throw to)
Robert Ferguson - 24 Rec. 367 YDS 1 TD (Injury Plagued Season)
Terrence Murphy - 56 Rec. 721 YDS 4 TD (College Season)

vs.

Nate Burleson - 66 Rec. 1006 YDS 9 TD (Moss took away around 29-30 catches + around 400 yards)Marcus Robinson - 47 Rec. 657 YDS 8 TD (Moss took away 19-20 catches + around 370 yards)Travis Taylor - 34 Rec. 421 YDS 0 TD (Had a crappy QB in Baltimore)
Troy Williamson - 43 Rec. 835 YDS 7 TD (College season on mostly running team)

Here are the stats plain and simple. I know you guys had Moss last year and stuff, but the only 2 athletes out of this bunch are Burleson and Williamson. I think many of you forget the season Driver had for us last year and 2 years before that. We also have a very good rookie in T-Murph. Our receivers are clearly better than yours. I can fess up to you guys having a better QB Now, a better O-Line, and a draw at Linebackers or Fullback, but you guys are not better than the Pack at every position. Wide Receivers are our best position and you guys are not better, plain and simple.

Adjusted stats look much closer, plus Wiggins caught 37 more passes than Franks did for an additional 350 yards (thereby taking away more catches and opportunities for the Viking WRs)

While your receivers have a clear advantage in statistics, our receivers have the ability to "will" the Vikes to victory. All of these WR's are the backbone of their teams and each team would be in serious trouble if they were lost. ADVANTAGE: EVEN

Just using the same logic that you used to pull Favre even with Pep...even used most of the same words! :lol:

PAvikesfan
06-08-2005, 07:25 PM
wow...cool. you might have the better WR's.... and better Kickers. without a suffecient Oline their numbers will drop and without Walker who has the TO money disease the receiver corps will just be dismill. besides, i do think the pack have the + for their 1st two recievers, but the vikes have a bunch more options to throw to and i am not counting Campbell.

oh, and without a Defense you won't have wins either. i am waiting for the season. by week 6, we will all know where the pack is... maybe even behind us and detroit.

V4L
06-08-2005, 07:46 PM
We got a QB who can hit our WR's.. Favre's accuracy is leaving.. Pep can hit 70 percent of his passes.. Our WR's should be pretty close to urs.. And dont let our numbers fool ya.. T-tay is a great athlete.. He had a shitty QB.. And it wouldn't surprise me if he was our 2nd WR by the end of the year.. M-rob will have 10 TD's this year.. He is our endzone guy.. Troy will have a learning year, But a solid rookie season.. And Burleson will tear it up for us!

Walker will hold out.. and if he comes back he will just be worried about money and wont put up great numbers.. Ferguson will be afraid to come across the middle now.. Driver will be solid.. and murphy who cares about him?

shockzilla
06-08-2005, 07:48 PM
In case you don't remember, Travis Taylor and Troy Williamson were NOT with the Vikings last year, so I cannot see where you can compare the numbers...

ultravikingfan
06-08-2005, 09:22 PM
My comparison:

Vikes: Great
Pack: Suck

:lol:

Welcome back jwalk!

willieofford
06-08-2005, 10:26 PM
JWALKERRULZ84 ur are an idiot.




Nuff said.

JWalkRulz84
06-08-2005, 10:28 PM
I dont care who is throwing the ball to what receivers. Im talking about actual receiving here. I dont care who was throwing Travis Taylor the ball last year, he is not as good as any of our top 3. C-Pep will definitely make the players around him better, no doubt about that. Look what he did with Wiggens. But if a player like Walker or Driver went to a different team, they would still put up solid numbers, you can't say the same about Robinson or Taylor. Williamson and Burleson will be solid though.

JWalkRulz84
06-08-2005, 10:31 PM
And Willieofford, where do you get off calling me an idiot? I have been nothing but informative. I dont not wish to rip on the Vikes and have been a very good member of this board for quite some time now.

I hope some of my Viking friends here can maybe set him in line. Thats uncalled for. Why call someone an idiot for stating an opinion when you yourself, do not even have a knowledgable opinion to share?

Del Rio
06-08-2005, 10:31 PM
I doubt that can be said for walker and driver. They are average at best. On another team they would be nipple tweakers. Favre wills his team to win, because they are average. He raises the bar.

GQVikesfan
06-08-2005, 10:32 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

I dont care who is throwing the ball to what receivers. Im talking about actual receiving here. I dont care who was throwing Travis Taylor the ball last year, he is not as good as any of our top 3. C-Pep will definitely make the players around him better, no doubt about that. Look what he did with Wiggens. But if a player like Walker or Driver went to a different team, they would still put up solid numbers, you can't say the same about Robinson or Taylor. Williamson and Burleson will be solid though.

You sure about that?

http://www.kfan.com/vikings/devcamp2005/60805/video/CulpeppertoTaylorforTD.asx

Check out that video of Taylor beating Winfield and Sharper.

zeppelin4534
06-08-2005, 10:36 PM
ok, jwalk...youre just wrong. How can you even compare Peps MVP season last year to a 100 year old QB who just throaws it up? You have two receivers who will do solid once again, but we have Natem who is just gonna blow up this season and Robinson who will catch 12-15 td's, and Williamson who will blow past your terrible secondary and Travis Taylor who i think is gonna be a monster this season. Also, our TE's are amazing. A half of one of ours ius better than Franks. Wiggins And Jimmy are both amazing TE's and Jimmy is a great FB and one of the top 3 blockers at his position in the NFL, and i think you know that. And hes still fairly young. 28 i believe? Our RB's arent as good as yours but we still manage to keep up right with you in rushing every year because our O line is much better this year and has always been solid and we have several RB's that are capabe of starting on any team. As for the Defense..... You have no position that is up with us. Not one.....this is how i see the positions







QB- Hands down, Its Pep and the Vikes. heck when Gus was in he did better than Favre. VIKES

RB- You have an overral better RB but we have many rb's that are really gonna prove something this year. EVEN

FB- Jimmy K. is awesome, hands down. he can run people over and he has sure hands and can block like a maniac. VIKES

WR- Nate is better than all your receivers. hands down and will show that this year. We have so many recievers capable of tearing things up. This is at least even, but i think its the vikes advantage. I'll go with EVEN

TE- No questions asked here VIKES

OL- VIKES

DL- WOW! VIKES here

LB- Vikes, we have great linebackers.

CB- best duo in the league except for maybe the Ravens, they are gonna be scary. VIKES

S- we took your only good one, haha. VIKES

K- we'll see. from what ive heard.. elling looks great and we all know edinger is the best from the 50+ and has been solid his whole career. I say the Vikes will be better but longwell has proven he is geat. PACK get their first.

briboy75
06-08-2005, 10:36 PM
While I'd take Culpepper over Favre, I can accept that you ranked them even. However when you look at the position as a whole (depth)> I think the advantage is slighlty to the vikings.

JWalkRulz84
06-08-2005, 10:41 PM
"zeppelin4534" wrote:

ok, jwalk...youre just wrong. How can you even compare Peps MVP season last year to a 100 year old QB who just throaws it up? You have two receivers who will do solid once again, but we have Natem who is just gonna blow up this season and Robinson who will catch 12-15 td's, and Williamson who will blow past your terrible secondary and Travis Taylor who i think is gonna be a monster this season. Also, our TE's are amazing. A half of one of ours ius better than Franks. Wiggins And Jimmy are both amazing TE's and Jimmy is a great FB and one of the top 3 blockers at his position in the NFL, and i think you know that. And hes still fairly young. 28 i believe? Our RB's arent as good as yours but we still manage to keep up right with you in rushing every year because our O line is much better this year and has always been solid and we have several RB's that are capabe of starting on any team. As for the Defense..... You have no position that is up with us. Not one.....this is how i see the positions







QB- Hands down, Its Pep and the Vikes. heck when Gus was in he did better than Favre. VIKES

RB- You have an overral better RB but we have many rb's that are really gonna prove something this year. EVEN

FB- Jimmy K. is awesome, hands down. he can run people over and he has sure hands and can block like a maniac. VIKES

WR- Nate is better than all your receivers. hands down and will show that this year. We have so many recievers capable of tearing things up. This is at least even, but i think its the vikes advantage. I'll go with EVEN

TE- No questions asked here VIKES

OL- VIKES

DL- WOW! VIKES here

LB- Vikes, we have great linebackers.

CB- best duo in the league except for maybe the Ravens, they are gonna be scary. VIKES

S- we took your only good one, haha. VIKES

K- we'll see. from what ive heard.. elling looks great and we all know edinger is the best from the 50+ and has been solid his whole career. I say the Vikes will be better but longwell has proven he is geat. PACK get their first.


Holy cow here dude, is there a single player on the Vikes who isnt going to have a monster year? Its cool to think "fantasy" and stuff, but be realistic. Im not doubting that your receivers are going to blow past our secondary, but I think I could probably do that myself.

And Vikes fans, which one is it? I have some of you saying that our receivers are products of Favre and some of you saying Favre is a product of our receivers...Second of all, Favre will turn 36 this fall and if you didnt watch last season, he completed 60% of his passes for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's. He is not some washed up pile of garbage here zepplin.

But I will agree with you guys that the Vikes have better depth at QB and that C-Pep is better than Favre right now. C-Pep is unstoppable and I was finally sold on him last season. He is a very talented player. But some of you guys just aren't being reasonable.

Del Rio
06-08-2005, 10:56 PM
Who said Favre a HOF QB, is a product of his WR's?

GQVikesfan
06-08-2005, 11:02 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

"zeppelin4534" wrote:

ok, jwalk...youre just wrong. How can you even compare Peps MVP season last year to a 100 year old QB who just throaws it up? You have two receivers who will do solid once again, but we have Natem who is just gonna blow up this season and Robinson who will catch 12-15 td's, and Williamson who will blow past your terrible secondary and Travis Taylor who i think is gonna be a monster this season. Also, our TE's are amazing. A half of one of ours ius better than Franks. Wiggins And Jimmy are both amazing TE's and Jimmy is a great FB and one of the top 3 blockers at his position in the NFL, and i think you know that. And hes still fairly young. 28 i believe? Our RB's arent as good as yours but we still manage to keep up right with you in rushing every year because our O line is much better this year and has always been solid and we have several RB's that are capabe of starting on any team. As for the Defense..... You have no position that is up with us. Not one.....this is how i see the positions







QB- Hands down, Its Pep and the Vikes. heck when Gus was in he did better than Favre. VIKES

RB- You have an overral better RB but we have many rb's that are really gonna prove something this year. EVEN

FB- Jimmy K. is awesome, hands down. he can run people over and he has sure hands and can block like a maniac. VIKES

WR- Nate is better than all your receivers. hands down and will show that this year. We have so many recievers capable of tearing things up. This is at least even, but i think its the vikes advantage. I'll go with EVEN

TE- No questions asked here VIKES

OL- VIKES

DL- WOW! VIKES here

LB- Vikes, we have great linebackers.

CB- best duo in the league except for maybe the Ravens, they are gonna be scary. VIKES

S- we took your only good one, haha. VIKES

K- we'll see. from what ive heard.. elling looks great and we all know edinger is the best from the 50+ and has been solid his whole career. I say the Vikes will be better but longwell has proven he is geat. PACK get their first.


Holy cow here dude, is there a single player on the Vikes who isnt going to have a monster year? Its cool to think "fantasy" and stuff, but be realistic. Im not doubting that your receivers are going to blow past our secondary, but I think I could probably do that myself.

And Vikes fans, which one is it? I have some of you saying that our receivers are products of Favre and some of you saying Favre is a product of our receivers...Second of all, Favre will turn 36 this fall and if you didnt watch last season, he completed 60% of his passes for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's. He is not some washed up pile of garbage here zepplin.

But I will agree with you guys that the Vikes have better depth at QB and that C-Pep is better than Favre right now. C-Pep is unstoppable and I was finally sold on him last season. He is a very talented player. But some of you guys just aren't being reasonable.

Not being reasonable? You are the one that is saying that if both Walker and Driver left the Pack and went to a team that had a sucky QB that they would still produce better than Taylor would.. Well, Taylor went into this league and signed with Baltimore and never really had a great or even a good QB to throw at him. You are basically comparing both of your receivers.. both of whom had Bret Fav-re throwing them the ball to Taylor which had never had a good QB throwing him the ball. Lets say that Walker and Driver went to Baltimore.. a RUN oriented team.. do you still think that both would have produced as much as they would if they didnt have Fav-re at QB? I dont think so.. Travis Taylor is going to surprise a whole lot of people.. especially the Packers secondary. And incase you missed it the first time.. take a look at this vid of Taylor.

http://kfan.com/vikings/devcamp2005/60805/video/CulpeppertoTaylorforTD.asx

southern_yankee
06-08-2005, 11:12 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:


Holy cow here dude, is there a single player on the Vikes who isnt going to have a monster year? Its cool to think "fantasy" and stuff, but be realistic. Im not doubting that your receivers are going to blow past our secondary, but I think I could probably do that myself.

And Vikes fans, which one is it? I have some of you saying that our receivers are products of Favre and some of you saying Favre is a product of our receivers...Second of all, Favre will turn 36 this fall and if you didnt watch last season, he completed 60% of his passes for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's. He is not some washed up pile of garbage here zepplin.

But I will agree with you guys that the Vikes have better depth at QB and that C-Pep is better than Favre right now. C-Pep is unstoppable and I was finally sold on him last season. He is a very talented player. But some of you guys just aren't being reasonable.

That's kinda funny about you blowing past your secondary. Actually what shocked the heck out of me is that our offenses were statistically very, very similar last year (went to nfl.com to check out the numbers). I still cannot give you the receivers...I've watched too many Packer games, your receivers are decent receivers, but not anything to write home about. Now the Vikings are in a similar boat until someone steps his game up. I'll give you a draw, but no more than that. You say look at the stats, but you cannot do that. The quarterback does matter (I’m not sure how you can even say/type that with a straight-face). The play-calling does matter (i.e. we throw to the tight ends a lot). The running game matters. Injuries matter. If we were talking about two intact receiving cores, yes, we could compare numbers…the fact is we’re not. The receivers are not your best asset…and I suggest that you are demeaning your team by saying so. As much as I loathe the Packers (and trust me, there are few who can hate as intensely as I do), …(this is very painful for me to say…) the strength of your team is…I cannot say something nice, I tried, but I can’t…let’s just say that there are other things about your team that are better than the receivers.

willieofford
06-08-2005, 11:36 PM
Jwalker, GO back to ur damn trailer park you know nothing piece of shit. Favre sucks so do the packers. There is no way ur team is close to ours. We are light years ahead of u, buddy? Wait, do u know what light years mean? OPEN UP A DICTIONARY AND U WILL FIND IT.

Ltrey33
06-08-2005, 11:42 PM
I think the Packers suck...that's what I think.

i_bleed_purple
06-09-2005, 01:03 AM
I see how you could say that the Packers's recievers are as good as or better than the vikings recievers. They do have 3 1000 yard players. The vikings have a deeper WR linup though. But to say that Favre is as good as Pep is garbage. Favre will be a HOF er someday, but right now, I'd pick Culpepper over Favre any day. If Manning did not have the amazing season he had, Culpepper would be more acknowleged for his accomplishments and even be considered for MVP. Mabye then all you packer fans will look at the world around you and stop worshipping your old, washed-up QB and think that mabye someone out there is better.

willieofford
06-09-2005, 01:34 AM
THANK YOU.

LosAngelis
06-09-2005, 05:54 AM
I absolutely hate position-by-position comparisons. They mean nothing. But, its the offseason, so I'll comment, and add a couple of comparisons that I think are more pertinent.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

QB - Brett Favre vs. Daunte Culpepper
ADVANTAGE: EVEN

I'm as big of a Favre fan as any, but the advantage goes to Culpepper for one reason: no Moss. Culpepper is going to be able to actually play HIS game, and while I don't think he'll have the numbers he's had, he will be more efficient and more of a weapon. Favre is still great, but he can't bull you over like a tank.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

RB - Ahman Green vs. Michael Bennett/Mewelde Moore/Moe Williams

ADVANTAGE: AHMAN GREEN (PACKERS)

Hm. The loss of Ontarrio, as much as you may not want to admit it, hurts. This is really the biggest area of concern for you guys, as you have had trouble getting one consistent performer for years. Not sure I'd give an advantage to the Pack, but I'd call it even at best.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

FB - William Henderson vs. Jim Kleinsasser

ADVANTAGE: WILLIAM HENDERSON (PACKERS)

Hm. I'd call that one even, also. If Kleinny can stay healthy, he's more of a weapon. But, he has to stay healthy. Henderson has almost as many consectutive starts as Favre, and he's an assignment sure blocker.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

WR - Javon Walker/Donald Driver/Robert Ferguson vs. Nate Burleson/Troy Williamson/Marcus Robinson

ADVANTAGE: WALKER/DRIVER/FERGUSON (PACKERS)

I'll take some heat for this, but I'm going to give the Packers a slight nod here, even with Travis Taylor in there. But, I think your corps is a year away from being a great one. WIlliamson will need a year to adjust, and Robinson isn't a great one anymore.

However, the Ferguson injury and Walker holdout cast a cloud over that slight nod. If Ferguson comes back and Walker ends his holdout, I'll keep the nod, but if not, the pendalum will swing.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

OL - (Clifton, Klemm, Flanagan, Barry, Tauscher) vs. (McKinnie, Goldberg, Birk, Liwienski, Rosenthal)

ADVANTAGE: EVEN

I don't know that Minnesota's OL was that bad last year, and GB's was very, very good. I'm placing this one as undecided until I see it, but I might have to give a nod to Minnesota until GB shows it is the scheme, not the players, that made the OL great.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

DL - KGB, Kampman, Jackson, Hunt vs. Udeze, Williams x 2, James

ADVANTAGE: UDEZE, WILLIAMS x 2, JAMES (VIKINGS)

This one goes to the Vikes, but hey...that's a LOT of potential there, guys. Hope they don't fall on their face! GB has a lot of depth and will be looking for not only Hunt to lose his spot, but to have the ends rotate more.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

Linebackers - Diggs, Barnett, Thompson vs. Harris, Cowart, Thomas

ADVANTAGE: DIGGS, BARNETT, THOMPSON (PACKERS)

Ouch. I'd call this one even, at best. Barnett is a stud, Diggs is servicable, and Thompson...I'm not even sure who that is. Vikes have more name players, but they may underachieve the first year. We'll see, but I don't know if I'd give that to the Pack right now.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

Cornerbacks - Carroll and Harris vs. Winfield and Smoot

ADVANTAGE: WINFIELD and SMOOT (VIKINGS)

Carroll sucks. Harris is tough. Vikes.

"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

Safeties - Freeman and Collins vs. Sharper and Chavous

ADVANTAGE: SHARPER and CHAVOUS (VIKINGS)

This will be the most fun one. We have a lot of guys in open competition for this spot. But, I love playing Chavous because he always finds a way to screw up somehow. I wonder if Sharper will be the same way....feast or famine. Vikes.

A couple you forgot:

Kicker (Longwell vs.Elling)

Sorry...if you argue this one, you're barking up the wrong tree. Packers.

Punter (Sander vs. Bennett)

Vikes here, most likely. Sander is either going to prove he was a waste or make Sherman a genius this year.

Coaching (Sherman vs. Tice)

Aha! This is the big one we forget. Now, Sherman is no Mike Holmgren, much less a Lombardi. He's been a bit tenative in the past and a micromanager. And he falls asleep at combines.

But, he was stripped of his GM duties. He's pissed. He was a very good coach his first year (before the GM thing) and in minicamps, he's already proven that he's not tyring to play good guy/bad guy anymore. He was in Carroll's FACE yesterday and told him to get his act together.

Tice, as I've said before, tries too hard to be a player's coach, and he just won't get respect that way. He's a Neatherthal, and as long as he is coach, the Packers have a chance to win the division. A good coach doesn't crumble the second half of a season away two years in a row.

Advantage: (biased, yes) Sherman (and Bates on defense)

Momentum/Intangibles:

I give this right now to the Vikes, also. The offseason moves and new ownership should give the team a shot in the arm. They got a playoff win against a rival and performed chemo on the team cancer. Everything is going the Vikes way.

The Packers have lost more than they've gained, and are still putting up with POS's like Hunt and an inexpicable holdout like Walkers. However, this is the one that can turn on a dime as the season goes on. Injuries and other intangibles impact a team's synergy, and both our teams looked like out of weight boxers on oxygen at the end of the season.

Just my opinion. :grin:

muchluv4smoot
06-09-2005, 06:20 AM
Edinger is our kicker, not elling, not that it matters much. But these position comparisons are pretty dumb and mean nothing at all. I have always pointed to the patriots and the fact that we would have won the comparison battle with their super bowl teams over the years, yet we have struggled and they have won 3 of the last 4 super bowls.

RK.
06-09-2005, 07:30 AM
I agree with those who say player comparisons are not all that meaningful. (LOS :grin: ) The real problem for the Packers is their OL losses. I don't see their new line being as good, and as a result Favre will be on his back more, which means the WR won't be getting as many balls and the RB's will have a tougher time getting the yards. It all starts with the line and GB's new line is not proven. So far they have only played against one of the worst defenses in the league.....the Packers. :lol: And of course their D hasn't improved either, in fact it is probably a little worse this year.

Best defense definitely Vikings have more talent.
Best offense.... at this point I would have to say even however the Vikes have more potential as we are changing to more of a running offense and the Pack will be going with their same old (and I do mean old, lol) scheme.

Better team over all... has to be the Vikings. :grin:

RandyMoss8404
06-09-2005, 07:46 AM
QB - Brett Favre vs. Daunte Culpepper
Culpepper must prove that he can win without Randy Moss. He has the physical tools. He has the ability to make plays with his hands and feet. But Brett Favre is still Brett Favre, and until he retires, the Packers have a chance to win.
Advantage: Even.

RB - Ahman Green vs. Michael Bennett/Mewelde Moore/Moe Williams
This depends. If Michael Bennett is our starting back, I think Ahman Green has the clear cut advantage. However, if Mewelde Moore wins the job, I think this might be tough. Ahman will probably average about 90+ yards a game. I think MeMo could average 120 total yards per game. He averaged over a 100 in his three starts.
ADVANTAGE: Ahman Green - Packers. If MeMo starts, even.

FB - William Henderson vs. Jim Kleinsasser
Kleinsasser is a beast. He's got some good pass catching ability, and likes annihilating linebackers.
ADVANTAGE: Jim Kleinsasser - Vikings.

TE - Jermaine Wiggins vs. Bubba Franks
Bubba is the better blocker. Wiggins is the far superior pass catcher, and gets open in the soft zone consistently. Oh yeah, and uh.
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news32/6vikes0921.l.jpg
Advantage: Vikings, Jermaine Wiggins.

WR - Javon Walker/Donald Driver/Robert Ferguson vs. Nate Burleson/Troy Williamson/Marcus Robinson
Walker and Driver both have the ability to kill you at any moment. Burleson, Williamson, Robinson, Taylor, and Campbell have to prove themselves. However, Nate makes the tough catch and gets the YAC, and Troy/Travis can explode at any moment. Furthermore, Marcus Robinson can outjump anyone you have in the end zone. This one is up for debate, but for now...
ADVANTAGE: WALKER/DRIVER/FERGUSON (PACKERS)

OL - (Clifton, Klemm, Flanagan, Barry, Tauscher) vs. (McKinnie, Goldberg, Birk, Liwienski, Rosenthal)
We have to find out if GB's success was the men or the scheme - I'm betting it was the men. But I'm not sure. If Birk is out, and the scheme is indeed the key to success, then this is...
ADVANTAGE: Even.

DL - KGB, Kampman, Jackson, Hunt vs. Udeze, Williams x 2, James
If Pat Williams lines up and takes on two blockers, K-Will will go crazy, and Udeze and James will come off the edge like demons out of hell. This does not bode well for opponents.
ADVANTAGE: Vikings - Erasmus James, Kenechi Udeze, Kevin/Pat Williams

Linebackers - Diggs, Barnett, Thompson vs. Harris, Cowart, Thomas
Harris and Cowart are very good, instinctive players, and Thomas has playmaking ability. But the Packer linebackers are good. They take the cake here.
ADVANTAGE: Packers - Diggs, Barnett, Thompson.

Cornerbacks - Carroll and Harris vs. Winfield and Smoot
Since no one else seems to be willing to say it, I'm going to say it - Antoine Winfield is the best corner in the NFC, and top 3 in the NFL. Smoot is not as good as he is - and yes, I mean in coverage - but he's also nasty, and fast enough to take away the deep ball from his man.
ADVANTAGE: Smootfield

Safeties - Freeman and Collins vs. Sharper and Chavous
Chavous/Offord and Sharper against...who?
ADVANTAGE: Sharper and ?

Punter: Eh...Travis Dorsch/Bennett are ok, BJ Sander looks to be stronger though.
ADVANTAGE: Pack

Kicker: Edinger > Longwell, if Edinger is playing well. But that's not a guarantee, and Elling might win.
ADVANTAGE: Pack

That's my spiel.

zeppelin4534
06-09-2005, 07:47 AM
Jwalk, when did i say or anyone say that either favre or your receivers are products of one another? Im not being biased at all nor am i being unreasonable, the Vikes have a great team. If you noticed, i said the WR's were even but the vikes will blow past them this year because of the depth and the talent of each and every one of them. Henderson is great but Jimmy can block just as good if not better and can catch and he can run and most important, he is a very intelligent football player who can play two positions ( TE and FB ) So you tell me where im being unreasonable. I appreciate your opinion but dont call me unreasonable for being logical and smart. If you think that your 2 receivers are better than Nate, who is amazing and you know that...i hope, and the rest of our receiving corps, than you are just dead wrong. The reason i said even on the RB is because we have 3 RB's who are out to prove themselves and MB being in his last year of contract is having a do or die type season. If he dpoesnt produce, hes dead in the water, if he does he will have some good value. He is still liked around the league. Your LB's are not better than the Vikes. Cowart is proven and isnt really too old at all and is a great team leader, We have R smith who played great in his time last year, Napolean is a loud spoken and high spirited young LB who will blow up in a good D not like the Raiders. We still have DT in the LB depth chart as well. We have so much depth at every single position with more than just good players in each. The vikings have a great team and at every position they are either better or even for now.

RandyMoss8404
06-09-2005, 07:52 AM
Zeppelin

Nate Burleson has had ONE GOOD SEASON opposite THE BEST WIDE RECEIVER IN THE GAME and maybe EVER.

You cannot say yet that he is the answer , or that he is better than JWalk/DDriver. He hasn't proven it yet.

zeppelin4534
06-09-2005, 07:54 AM
Didnt Pep prove he can play at an amazingly high level without Moss last year? or am i mistaken? Moss had like 600 yards and pep had 4,700 yards. 4,100 yards without Moss seems pretty damn good. the fact that he completed 70 percent of his passes is pretty amazing these days in the Nfl. I dont know if you were watching the vikes at all this season RandyMoss8404, but PEP always got us in the game but he cant play D too. we didnt have that last year and thats why we cant win, him winning is not the problem, he can do that....look at his numbers. It was our D that lost the games, not PEP...so thats not fair to say.

RandyMoss8404
06-09-2005, 08:00 AM
"zeppelin4534" wrote:

Didnt Pep prove he can play at an amazingly high level without Moss last year? or am i mistaken? Moss had like 600 yards and pep had 4,700 yards. 4,100 yards without Moss seems pretty gol 'darnit good. the fact that he completed 70 percent of his passes is pretty amazing these days in the Nfl. I dont know if you were watching the vikes at all this season RandyMoss8404, but PEP always got us in the game but he cant play D too. we didnt have that last year and thats why we cant win, him winning is not the problem, he can do that....look at his numbers. It was our D that lost the games, not PEP...so thats not fair to say.

You apparently can't read.

I said Pep has to prove himself, not that it was his fault we lost. He played well without Moss, yes. But he scored less without Moss. He looked less assured of himself without Moss. He didn't have that security blanket he had with Moss. It's that simple. I BELIEVE in Culpepper - he just has to PROVE it.

zeppelin4534
06-09-2005, 08:02 AM
thats why i said its even for now, but in my opinion and i think many people agree, Nate will have a great season. Also, the fact the Moss was out for the middle of the season and thats when Nate stepped up most speaks volumes. He wasnt playing opposite anyone, he was the number 1 and was putting up the numbers. The Vikings WR's will show this year that they are far better than the Packs or any other team for that matter, but for now its even because they have 2 1,000 yard receivers and we have amazing depth...its even. Nate is a better receiver than Driver though, you know that, not quite at Walker. J walker is a good WR, only dropped a pass or two last year but is messing up the team chemistry with the holding out.

zeppelin4534
06-09-2005, 08:07 AM
Wow, i cant read? its my opinion that he has proven himself. Many times in the fourth quarter or anytime throught the game, PEP would be the one to step it up. See, Moss was out for a lof the middle of the season and was never really a 100% after that. PEP still threw for 4,700 yards. I would think thats a proven stat right there. He blew up last year and no one had a thousand yards on the team. He spread it out. He is right there for the best QB in the NFL, its my opinion that last year he proved himself. I would think his play would tell you that but i guess not.

RandyMoss8404
06-09-2005, 08:13 AM
"zeppelin4534" wrote:

thats why i said its even for now, but in my opinion and i think many people agree, Nate will have a great season. Also, the fact the Moss was out for the middle of the season and thats when Nate stepped up most speaks volumes. He wasnt playing opposite anyone, he was the number 1 and was putting up the numbers. The Vikings WR's will show this year that they are far better than the Packs or any other team for that matter, but for now its even because they have 2 1,000 yard receivers and we have amazing depth...its even. Nate is a better receiver than Driver though, you know that, not quite at Walker. J walker is a good WR, only dropped a pass or two last year but is messing up the team chemistry with the holding out.

Ok.

Only Nate is going to see this thing that even when Randy was out he didn't see much of.

It's called a 'safety.' They're the guys who play behind the corners. Now that Nate has 'established' himself as the 'number one' receiver, he's going to see double coverage. Bracket coverage. He's going to be bumped off his routes into a designed zone containment.

Basically, everything Randy used to deal with is now on Nate. I hope he proves me wrong, but I dunno about this.

zeppelin4534
06-09-2005, 08:18 AM
Well, i have faith in Nate. He is a great runner without the ball. Smart young player. Whenever he caught the ball last year he would make a play. I really really like Nate and think he is going to do just fine.

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 02:28 PM
"RandyMoss8404" wrote:

"zeppelin4534" wrote:

thats why i said its even for now, but in my opinion and i think many people agree, Nate will have a great season. Also, the fact the Moss was out for the middle of the season and thats when Nate stepped up most speaks volumes. He wasnt playing opposite anyone, he was the number 1 and was putting up the numbers. The Vikings WR's will show this year that they are far better than the Packs or any other team for that matter, but for now its even because they have 2 1,000 yard receivers and we have amazing depth...its even. Nate is a better receiver than Driver though, you know that, not quite at Walker. J walker is a good WR, only dropped a pass or two last year but is messing up the team chemistry with the holding out.

Ok.

Only Nate is going to see this thing that even when Randy was out he didn't see much of.

It's called a 'safety.' They're the guys who play behind the corners. Now that Nate has 'established' himself as the 'number one' receiver, he's going to see double coverage. Bracket coverage. He's going to be bumped off his routes into a designed zone containment.

Basically, everything Randy used to deal with is now on Nate. I hope he proves me wrong, but I dunno about this.

Randy your really a prick.
You cry about getting hackled and then you get all defensive when one guy questions your weak ass source on the MCquarters signing and now this bullshit. I really don't care, I just wanted to point that out, not that anyone needed any evidence.

Zep, I don't see any reason why Burleson cannot succeed. He goes 100% every time even in practice. The guy found a way to get it done last year and from the reports of this minicamp, he has been beating double teams of Sharper and Winfield. Let the haters hate.

Lastly if Randy knew anything at all he would know that last year was really Walkers only GREAT season. Which in turn would put him on par with Burleson because supposedly he needs to have 20 great seasons in a row to get any credit.

Driver has had two good seasons and the rest are not even good enough to mention.

So no, Walker-Driver are not that great. Burleson is just as prooven as Walker, and from what I hear Travis is doing a great job. Williamson is unproven. And Robinson is a great redzone threat.

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 02:31 PM
Oh and your little barf up about getting bumped into zone............I pray they force us into zones. Culpepper eats zone up. Burleson will do fine. And if they cover over the top with a saftey. Our TE's will have an even better year, you know....TE....the guy that lines up after the offensive tackle.

i_bleed_purple
06-09-2005, 02:38 PM
los angelis wrote:

Punter (Sander vs. Bennett)

Vikes here, most likely. Sander is either going to prove he was a waste or make Sherman a genius this year.

i'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Darren Bennet is a terrible punter. i was at the Titans/Vikings game and he got off one good punt (64 or so)and his average was still 40 yards. he is very inconsistant. I would be happy to see a new punter in the mix soon.

OchoCinco
06-09-2005, 02:39 PM
Well played Del Rio...I think he's off base also, I think if you read KFAN's post of yesterday's OTA, you'll see just how intense Nate is, w/ Culpepper having to calm him down, and finally Tice having them removed their helmets. You can't tell me the guys not for real......

RandyMoss8404
06-09-2005, 02:41 PM
This wasn't a question of our TE's, only of Burleson's mettle.

And that safety comment came out a bit more condescending than I meant it, so forgive me for the hubris implied there.

Furthermore, now you're simply lying. I -never- posted again in that RW McQuarters thread, and only posted it because I thought it interesting, as the site is usually pre-emptive with its news.

So now you're making up things that I supposedly said in order to attempt to make me look bad on an internet sports forum? Come now sir...I know this forum is valuable to you with your intimate following, but that's a little sad.

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 03:04 PM
vikingdude82 wrote:
I haven't seen anything about this on nfl.com or espn.com or even giants.com not even foxsports.com, I think this information your getting is un-accurate.

You would also argue vehemently against anyone whom said the sky was blue, but that's because you're a prick

That was what I was talking about. I really didn't even need to bring it up not that anyone needs any clarifacation. I don't see where I lied, someone questioned your source, in a rather non abrhasive way, and you posted your all to common ultra defensive, sand in your vagina post.

Don't feel you need to defend yourself. It's ok to be a dick. You just can't be a dick and then create posts crying that you are being picked on.

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 03:09 PM
Yeah in a way it has become an imortant place to me. I have learned a lot and made a few good friends.

I don't have a following. I have people that put up with me, and I have people that hate me.

LosAngelis
06-09-2005, 04:42 PM
"muchluv4smoot" wrote:

Edinger is our kicker, not elling, not that it matters much.

I knew it was an "E" word.
:lol:
I checked NFL.com's depth chart and went with it. Guess they don't update those through minicamps. Oh, well. It said that Max McGee was our second wide receiver, too...

PurplePeopleEaters
06-09-2005, 05:38 PM
Here is my take. I will try my best not to be biased... :wink:

QB-Daunte Culpepper vs. Brett Favre:
After an incredible season last year, Daunte Culpepper has shown that he is one of the top 2 or 3 QB's in the NFL. If not for Peyton Manning he may have gotten an MVP award. Brett Favre showed last year some signs of aging but definitely proved that he still has it in him and will still be a threat with the receiving core around him.
Advantage: Daunte Culpepper, Vikings.

RB- Moe Williams/Michael Bennett/Ciatrick Fason/Mewelde Moore vs. Ahman Green:
The difference between the Packers and the Vikings in this situation is that the Packers have a clear starter who has shown that he can play well. The Vikings have 4 backs that have only shown bits and pieces of their potential. My guess this year is that the Vikings will find a clear starter and stick with him but we still do not know who that will be. As for the Ahman, it is not a doubt that he will have a 1000 yard rushing season.
Advantage: Ahman Green, Packers

Fullback- Jim Kleinsasser vs. William Henderson:
Henderson showed what he could do last year when he made it to his first pro-bowl. He was one of the main reasons (along with a good O-line) that the Packers offense succeeded last year. Kleinsasser is a great blocking back but is also can double as a TE. this makes him an even better receiving threat coming out of the backfield and not just a lead blocker. If Kleinsasser had been in the Vikings backfield last year, they may have had much more success running the ball.
Advantage: Even.

TE- Jermaine Wiggins Vs. Bubba Franks
Jermaine showed last year what he didn’t show in Carolina the year before. He led the Vikings in receptions and "thundered" his way through defenders. He showed leaping ability and became a threat to defenses in the passing game. Not that great of a blocker but that is made up for with his receiving. Bubba was basically the same as usual last year. He is not a great deep threat but when it comes to the red-zone he is almost unstoppable.
Advantage: Even.

OL- Clifton, Klemm, Flanagan, Barry, Tauscher Vs. McKinnie, Goldberg, Birk, Liwienski, Rosenthal:

The Packers O-line has been a powerhouse for years, but that was mainly because of Wahle and Rivera. Without these two cornerstones, the packers O-line will lose a little bit of what it has had in the past. The Vikings O-line will have to show how good it is with Goldberg playing instead of Dixon. The Vikings O-line will also be better now that they have a healthy Rosenthal who got a 7 year deal before the injury for a reason.
Advantage: Vikings

WR- Nate Burleson, Travis Taylor, Troy Williamson, Marcus Robinson Vs. Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Robert Ferguson, Terrence Murphy:

The Vikings lost Randy Moss the best reciever in football but that doesn’t mean they don’t have great receivers. In the absence of Moss’ injury last year, Nate Burleson stepped up as more of a #1 type receiver. The Vikings went out in FA and grabbed Travis Taylor, a player that has never had a chance to show his potential, and in the draft Troy Williamson, who is also a good pick to break out soon considering he is now in a pass heavy offense. The Packers have a rising star in Javon Walker and a solid second WR in Donald Driver. Past that they don’t have much. The Packers have better starting receivers but the Vikings have much more quality depth.
Advantage: Even


DL- The Animal, Fat Pat, The eraser, and Kenechi Vs. KGB, Kampman, Jackson, and Hunt:
Ummm… this is a no-brainer. The Vikings have a top notch D-line.. The kind that carries a team to a super bowl. No offense but the packers have KGB and a bunch of chumps.
Advantage: Vikings

LB- Cowart, Napo, and Thomas Vs. Diggs, Barnett, and Thompson:
The Vikings have found themselves a LB corps. Cowart is a veteran leader, Napo is a strong , young LB with a lot of talent who will break out in the vikes D, and Thomas is the perfect player for Cowart to teach. The Packers have potential with Barnett and Diggs and Barnett has already broken out.
Advantage: Even


CB- Smoot, Winfield, Williams Vs. Carrol and Harris:
Smoot and Winfield may be a top CB tandem in the NFL come next season. They will also have Williams at the Nickel. This could a huge threat to receivers out there. Carrol still is not a great corner but he will have time to learn under a better one in Harris. This isn’t even close.
Advantage: Vikings

S- Sharper, Chavous Vs. Freeman, Collins:
Two great veterans Vs. a couple of nobodies.
Advantage: Vikings

Kicker- Longwell Vs. Edinger.

Longwell has proven that he is a clutch kicker for the packers. (Us Vikings fans would know). Edinger hasn’t proven much but can be a solid kicker at times.
Advantage: Packers.

Overall: Advantage Vikings- The vikings have gone out there and gotten what they needed. The Packers have gone out there and lost a lot of what they needed to keep. They even wasted a draft pick on a QB. The Vikings have a chance to contend for a SB, the Packers do not. It's as simple as that.

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 05:43 PM
That was a very sensable post. I don't think it was biased at all. Well done.

RandyMoss8404
06-09-2005, 05:53 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

vikingdude82 wrote:
I haven't seen anything about this on nfl.com or espn.com or even giants.com not even foxsports.com, I think this information your getting is un-accurate.

You would also argue vehemently against anyone whom said the sky was blue, but that's because you're a prick

That was what I was talking about. I really didn't even need to bring it up not that anyone needs any clarifacation. I don't see where I lied, someone questioned your source, in a rather non abrhasive way, and you posted your all to common ultra defensive, sand in your vagina post.

Don't feel you need to defend yourself. It's ok to be a dick. You just can't be a dick and then create posts crying that you are being picked on.

I'd like to see these posts crying about where I'm picked on. My post was laughing at your little children.

That 'attack' was a jab at the above poster for his continual attacks on others. Kind of like mine on you.

But I'm done arguing with you, because for the most part, I actually -do- like you. I'm just saying, if you're going to attack others, I'm going to point it out and I'm going to laugh at it.

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 05:58 PM
Whatever gets you juicy.

PurplePeopleEaters
06-09-2005, 06:05 PM
"RandyMoss8404" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

vikingdude82 wrote:
I haven't seen anything about this on nfl.com or espn.com or even giants.com not even foxsports.com, I think this information your getting is un-accurate.

You would also argue vehemently against anyone whom said the sky was blue, but that's because you're a prick

That was what I was talking about. I really didn't even need to bring it up not that anyone needs any clarifacation. I don't see where I lied, someone questioned your source, in a rather non abrhasive way, and you posted your all to common ultra defensive, sand in your vagina post.

Don't feel you need to defend yourself. It's ok to be a dick. You just can't be a dick and then create posts crying that you are being picked on.

I'd like to see these posts crying about where I'm picked on. My post was laughing at your little children.

That 'attack' was a jab at the above poster for his continual attacks on others. Kind of like mine on you.

But I'm done arguing with you, because for the most part, I actually -do- like you. I'm just saying, if you're going to attack others, I'm going to point it out and I'm going to laugh at it.

how to stop yourself from getting banned!
Step 1. Calm the Fuck Down!

Step 2. There are no other steps. Just calm down damn.

This thread was about vikings vs. packers comparisons not bickering about what someone else may have said.

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 06:21 PM
I started it.

Was just shocked at why someone would get so pissy at someone who was trying logically approach the talent level of Nate Burleson. So somewhere in there it was on topic.

Shit happens, one time during my junior year of college I was in practice and the scout offensive guard kept grabbing my facemask and jerking my head around. I told him to knock it off, next play he grabs on so I stop mid swim, grab that fat bastard by the facemask and round and round we went.

We were swinging each other around about 25 yards behind the line of scrimmage, play was over I finally threw his ass down ripped my helmet off was ready to get crazy. Then I felt everyone looking at us. Looked back, the whole team staring at us like we were a couple of Paraplegics trying to wrestle over a pair of shoes.

I helped him up we ran back not another word the whole practice. Shit happens. And I know sometimes that shit makes you look retarded. :grin:

But yeah anyway to stay on topic, who gives a shit, because no matter how you break it up, no matter how you justify ranking packer players over viking players, it is still going to come down to a big guy in purple breaking his foot off in your teams ass.

shit shit shit shit shit shit I thought I needed a few more shits in there.

cajunvike
06-09-2005, 06:40 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

I started it.

Was just shocked at why someone would get so pissy at someone who was trying logically approach the talent level of Nate Burleson. So somewhere in there it was on topic.

pooh happens, one time during my junior year of college I was in practice and the scout offensive guard kept grabbing my facemask and jerking my head around. I told him to knock it off, next play he grabs on so I stop mid swim, grab that fat bastard by the facemask and round and round we went.

We were swinging each other around about 25 yards behind the line of scrimmage, play was over I finally threw his jiggly butt down ripped my helmet off was ready to get crazy. Then I felt everyone looking at us. Looked back, the whole team staring at us like we were a couple of Paraplegics trying to wrestle over a pair of shoes.

I helped him up we ran back not another word the whole practice. pooh happens. And I know sometimes that pooh makes you look retarded. :grin:

But yeah anyway to stay on topic, who gives a pooh, because no matter how you break it up, no matter how you justify ranking packer players over viking players, it is still going to come down to a big guy in purple breaking his foot off in your teams jiggly butt.

pooh pooh pooh pooh pooh pooh I thought I needed a few more shits in there.

You really did get one in there...the word censor apparently misses it when you pluralize it.

miakurtzy07
06-09-2005, 07:39 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

Favre will turn 36 this fall and if you didnt watch last season, he completed 60% of his passes for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's. He is not some washed up pile of garbage here zepplin.

In high school...a 60% is FAILING! And he's not even going to summer school to make up for it! IMO him being excused from all the mini camps is detrimenal for the entire Packer organization if he has as much "will power" as you like to say.

cajunvike
06-09-2005, 08:15 PM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

Favre will turn 36 this fall and if you didnt watch last season, he completed 60% of his passes for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's. He is not some washed up pile of garbage here zepplin.

With 17 INTs!

Pep completed 70% of his passes for over 4700 yards and 39 TDs (and only 11 INTs).

AND he won a playoff game last season as well! :grin:

zeppelin4534
06-09-2005, 09:29 PM
Thanks Del Rio, i dont know why anyone is still doubting Nate. He is a great receiver who stepped up when Moss was out and when he was in. Nate is our number 1 and is going to be solid this year. Hey, Randymoss8404, do you honestly think Nate has not seen safety coverage before? Being the number one for most of last season entitled Nate to the double coverage and he still made the plays over and over. So, i dont know how you can say that. Whatever man, its your opinion and you're entitled to it, i just think your wrong. PEP proved himself last year, your a viking fan and you're saying he needs to prove himself. Whats with that? Everyone around the NFL knows he already did more than prove himself, he established himself as one of the top 2 QB's in the NFL right now.

oldschoolmikey
06-09-2005, 09:58 PM
Del Rio, off topic but where did you play your college ball? Just curious, you probably have answered this before, but I was just wondering.

ultravikingfan
06-09-2005, 10:04 PM
"oldschoolmikey" wrote:

Del Rio, off topic but where did you play your college ball? Just curious, you probably have answered this before, but I was just wondering.

The U! :wink:

oldschoolmikey
06-09-2005, 10:05 PM
Really? Very cool!

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 10:12 PM
College of Wooster. Ohio.
Small School.

http://athletics.wooster.edu/fb/archives/default.php
#99
1999-2002

ultravikingfan
06-09-2005, 10:14 PM
"oldschoolmikey" wrote:

Really? Very cool!

Of Wooster!

Did you think I meant Miami?

If you saw his photo, he was big enough to play anywhere!

cajunvike
06-09-2005, 10:19 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"oldschoolmikey" wrote:

Del Rio, off topic but where did you play your college ball? Just curious, you probably have answered this before, but I was just wondering.

The U! :wink:


F the U!!!

oldschoolmikey
06-09-2005, 10:26 PM
No, I thought you meant Minnesota! Oh well still very cool playing college ball anywhere. If I had been a better student, I might have tried a little harder to play at a small school somewhere. Live and learn I guess. Way to go though Del, I am jealous of anyone that played beyond High School.

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 10:32 PM
Ha! I wish I had the opportunity to play at Miami.

My initial intention was to play for the Utah State Aggies but then Wooster offered me a pinto so I had to go there.

Seriously, Wooster has an amazing art program, that was my only reason to go there. It is ranked up there with the best. That and the fact they guaranteed I could go for free. Their scholastic program was very intriguing.

Still going to school though, at the University of Utah. Not eligible to play sports though just watch and dream. :grin:

Senior year I managed 6.5 sacks and 50+ tackles, I even almost got an interception but the layer of lineman lard on my hands prevented it lmao. I met my wife, there so it turned out ok. Except its like 35 grand a year and she didnt have hers paid for so now I am doing it. :sad:

V4L
06-09-2005, 10:39 PM
That a boy Del!!! Looked at all ur stats from each year.. Solid player! Good for 50+ tackles and 6 sacks.. Better then the old number 99 we had here on the vikes!

That Tony Sutton guy looked like he was awesome.. Whut ever happened with him?

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 10:58 PM
"Vikez4Lyfe" wrote:

That a boy Del!!! Looked at all ur stats from each year.. Solid player! Good for 50+ tackles and 6 sacks.. Better then the old number 99 we had here on the vikes!

That Tony Sutton guy looked like he was awesome.. Whut ever happened with him?

Tony our RB was/is the man. He was projected the 38th best Rb in the draft and coming from division 3 that isn't bad. He had a workout with the Browns they were supposed to sign him, they backed out. He is a FA right now, the Giants and Jags both have shown interest.

He's a good guy. He did some amazing things for our team broke a few records in the process, division ones. I hope he makes it on a team somewhere. When I watch a guy like that, it makes me appreciate the talent level of the guys who make it to the NFL.

He's not out though he could make a team.

V4L
06-09-2005, 11:13 PM
That would be awesome to have someone from ur school make it in the NFL.. I hope he does it.. he is pretty young isnt he?

Del Rio
06-09-2005, 11:17 PM
I allready have people I know in the NFL. It doesn't help me out any lol.

Yeah he is younger then me. I think he is 23?

ThorSPL
06-09-2005, 11:35 PM
The pack has the receivers over us - looking at the starting two... going to a three WR set makes it a more even ballgame - we definitely have the depth, but they do have two more solid players. Moss leaving opens up a LOT for the others, and we use our TE's in a passing game to take away some catches from WR's... but yes, I give the packers the edge in WR. I don't think you can put anybody ahead of Kleinsasser... it's hard to say he wouldn't have been the pro bowlers if he wasn't hurt.

I do think the Vikes have a clear O-Line advantage, but the other spots I'm pretty comfortable with. The LB factor is too much in limbo for the Vikes to go anywhere with that one...

LosAngelis
06-09-2005, 11:45 PM
"ThorSPL" wrote:

The pack has the receivers over us - looking at the starting two... going to a three WR set makes it a more even ballgame - we definitely have the depth, but they do have two more solid players. Moss leaving opens up a LOT for the others, and we use our TE's in a passing game to take away some catches from WR's... but yes, I give the packers the edge in WR. I don't think you can put anybody ahead of Kleinsasser... it's hard to say he wouldn't have been the pro bowlers if he wasn't hurt.

I do think the Vikes have a clear O-Line advantage, but the other spots I'm pretty comfortable with. The LB factor is too much in limbo for the Vikes to go anywhere with that one...

Hey! Will you quit going off topic! We're clearly discussing Del Rio's college career and professional dreams here!!!

Sheees. Doesn't anyone read a thread title anymore?

DemonicViking
06-09-2005, 11:58 PM
No, what's the title of this thread again?

V4L
06-10-2005, 12:00 AM
Packers suck its all good

2fat4uVike
06-10-2005, 12:05 AM
"DemonicViking" wrote:

No, what's the title of this thread again?


I think it was something about JWalkRulz84 smoking crack while posting.

cajunvike
06-10-2005, 12:14 AM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Ha! I wish I had the opportunity to play at Miami.

My initial intention was to play for the Utah State Aggies but then Wooster offered me a pinto so I had to go there.

Seriously, Wooster has an amazing art program, that was my only reason to go there. It is ranked up there with the best. That and the fact they guaranteed I could go for free. Their scholastic program was very intriguing.

Still going to school though, at the University of Utah. Not eligible to play sports though just watch and dream. :grin:

Senior year I managed 6.5 sacks and 50+ tackles, I even almost got an interception but the layer of lineman lard on my hands prevented it lmao. I met my wife, there so it turned out ok. Except its like 35 grand a year and she didnt have hers paid for so now I am doing it. :sad:

NO matter how you get it, it always turns out to be expensive...if you know what I mean!!! :lol:

Del Rio
06-10-2005, 02:21 AM
Yeah because we always stay on topic.

You don't like it move along or continue posting what you feel will contribute to the thread topic. Simple. Easy. No edjucation required.

That's the way it is on all threads. Hijacking baby, highjacking. :grin:

ultravikingfan
06-10-2005, 03:46 AM
"Del Rio" wrote:

I allready have people I know in the NFL. It doesn't help me out any lol.

Yeah he is younger then me. I think he is 23?

Do you guys ever get together on a yearly basis for an outing? The coach of the football that I am the D coach for played TE at Michigan State. They get together every year for a golf outing.

Del Rio
06-10-2005, 05:56 AM
Well I am going against my better judgement by answering your question and quite possibly pissing off a few people who are extreemly passionate about the thread and how it should stay on topic.....

but yeah we play basketball every spring/summer. And usually something for X-mas that's about it.

collegeguyjeff
06-10-2005, 08:16 AM
"JWalkRulz84" wrote:

So we are all eager to start the season and on paper, it seems as though the Vikes not only have the strongest team in the division, but possibly the strongest team in the NFC. I was interested to give my opinion on position comparisons and see what you guys think here. Let me know what you think...

QB - Brett Favre vs. Daunte Culpepper
While C-Pep has a clear advantage in statistics and athleticism, Favre has the ability to "will" the Pack to victory. Both these QB's are the backbone of their teams and each team would be in serious trouble if they were lost. ADVANTAGE: EVEN

RB - Ahman Green vs. Michael Bennett/Mewelde Moore/Moe Williams
Ahman Green is going to get his 1300 yards and 10 TD's every season. The Vikes running backs were not very impressive last season but I really think Bennett is gonna buck up and stay healthy this year. That remains to be seen however and C-Pepp picks up quite a bit of yards himself instead of the running backs.
ADVANTAGE: AHMAN GREEN (PACKERS)

FB - William Henderson vs. Jim Kleinsasser
Henderson finally got the recognition he deserved last season by making it to his first pro-bowl. He has paved the way for Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens, and Ahman Green. He is a savvy vet who does not miss an assignment. Kleiny is very good out of the backfield. Very solid blocker but its tough to compete when you are on the sidelines with an injury and Hendo has been a monster.
ADVANTAGE: WILLIAM HENDERSON (PACKERS)

WR - Javon Walker/Donald Driver/Robert Ferguson vs. Nate Burleson/Troy Williamson/Marcus Robinson
This isn't much of a debate. While there is clear potential for the Vikes, the Pack have 2 1000+ yd receivers and one of them is an All-Pro. The Vikes receivers will have to step up in the absence of Moss. Burleson will be solid but the questions of Williamson and Robinson stepping up are questionable.
ADVANTAGE: WALKER/DRIVER/FERGUSON (PACKERS)

OL - (Clifton, Klemm, Flanagan, Barry, Tauscher) vs. (McKinnie, Goldberg, Birk, Liwienski, Rosenthal)
The losses of Wahle and Rivera hurt the Pack. However, the solid pick ups of Adrian Klemm and Matt O'Dwyer were big and Kevin Barry has always had a great upside to him. The Pack already have solid players in Clifton, Flanagan and Tauscher. Birk is the best in the Biz at center and if his injury is bad, it will be very costly. Both these lines appear to be strong at the tackle and center positions, however the guards might be where its tough.
ADVANTAGE: EVEN

DL - KGB, Kampman, Jackson, Hunt vs. Udeze, Williams x 2, James
This is not even close. The Vikes Defensive line is absolutely rock solid. A lot of potential on the ends and dominance in the middle. The Pack's only real talented players are KGB and Jackson. The Vikes D-Line could destroy opponents O-Line this year if Udeze and James can be solid. The Pack's D-Line has some potential Players but it doesnt look good this year.
ADVANTAGE: UDEZE, WILLIAMS x 2, JAMES (VIKINGS)

Linebackers - Diggs, Barnett, Thompson vs. Harris, Cowart, Thomas
This is the only weak spot in the Vikes defense. I thought they sort of failed to address this in the offseason despite the additions of Cowart and Harris. Harris and Thomas have a lot of upside and potential where as Cowart is there for his leadership presence. Barnett is a big playmaker, Diggs is very solid on the strong side and Thompson is very speedy and quick to the ball. This is the strongest part of the Packer defense.
ADVANTAGE: DIGGS, BARNETT, THOMPSON (PACKERS)

Cornerbacks - Carroll and Harris vs. Winfield and Smoot
Im not going to even go there. Winfield and Smoot are the best duo in the NFC, maybe even the NFL.
ADVANTAGE: WINFIELD and SMOOT (VIKINGS)

Safeties - Freeman and Collins vs. Sharper and Chavous
Again, this isnt even close. Two vets capable of big plays. I dont even know who the Packers starting safeties will be.
ADVANTAGE: SHARPER and CHAVOUS (VIKINGS)

What do you guys think?

1. farve's "will" causes a lot of interceptions
2. ahman green fumbles a lot and he don't have his o line blocking from last year
3.we don't use a full back
4.walker had one good year, driver is over rated and ferguson sucks
5.offensive line, ours is way better
6.our dl is way better than the packers.
7.our linebackers are better
8. our corner backs are way better
9. our safeties are better.

over all edge 8-1 vikings, the packers can't beat us.