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PurplePackerEater
03-28-2005, 12:51 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/don_banks/03/17/top.five.cbs/index.html

:shock: Check out this article. Wow, all of a sudden Smoot's not so good?!? I'm sooo sick of the media. I can't even click on an NFL site without them letting me know that the "Tice ticket scalping investigation continues" Who cares. We ALL know that is GOING to continue.

Quote from the article above: "In summary, we think Smoot has been overrated."

Quote from the article above: "There are also those within the league who believe Smoot is a potential off-field problem waiting to happen."

Thoughts?

vikez06
03-28-2005, 12:58 AM
BULL
Winfields scrappy defense

XxS2TheEvoxX
03-28-2005, 12:59 AM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/don_banks/03/17/top.five.cbs/index.html

:shock: Check out this article. Wow, all of a sudden Smoot's not so good?!? I'm sooo sick of the media. I can't even click on an NFL site without them letting me know that the "Tice ticket scalping investigation continues" Who cares. We ALL know that is GOING to continue.

Quote from the article above: "In summary, we think Smoot has been overrated."

Quote from the article above: "There are also those within the league who believe Smoot is a potential off-field problem waiting to happen."

Thoughts?

Eh, it's just one persons opinion... Don't let it bother you too much. Although the Anthony Henry signing being ranked above the Smoot signing is kind of an annoyance.

PurplePackerEater
03-28-2005, 01:12 AM
The ONLY one that I believe is signifigently better, or should I say accomplished, is Rolle. But he's much older, less fuel in the tank.

PurplePeopleEaters
03-28-2005, 02:19 AM
The media just hates the vikings. It makes me so mad. I he was still an FA he would be rated 2nd or 1st.

ElBarto
03-28-2005, 02:22 AM
The media need to have someone they can criticise now Randy's gone.

Smooooot is obviously gonna be the victim of this :angryfire:

But who cares, let them, we'll have the last laugh :salute:

midgensa
03-28-2005, 02:31 AM
Yeah, I am not surprised by this. Smoot does get burned every now and then, but EVERY corner does. I also like how he indicated that Champ is so overatted. Typical of people to forget that Bailey is so damn good just because he got burned a couple of times and was carrying a whole secondary on his shoulders (Lynch aint what he used to be).
Smoot is a GREAT corner. Definitely one of the top ten OVERALL in the league and better than any of the other free agent signings.
There is a reason the cnnsi.com gets less hits than foxsports, espn, cbssportsline, sportingnews and ABC sports .... it is because their writers suck!

V4L
03-28-2005, 02:33 AM
yah fuck em.. once we get to the bowl we should be targeted anymore

hellzbellz
03-28-2005, 02:52 AM
Yeah, Thats the most bs i have ever heard

V4L
03-28-2005, 02:53 AM
my bad on my post up there.. we SHOULDNT be targeted anymore.. they always find something wrong to say about our players it pisses me off

PurplePackerEater
03-28-2005, 03:18 AM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:

The media just hates the vikings. It makes me so mad. I he was still an FA he would be rated 2nd or 1st.

Exactly right, and he was rated 1 or 2! If someone like the Cowboys signed him, they'd say he was the best FA signing in years and how great he'd fit on the team.

vikesfan
03-28-2005, 03:25 AM
Today I just got the April edition of Pro Football Weekly and they list the top free agents for the entire offseason. Smoot was 30th on the list. He was actually the sixth CB ranked. The comment next to him says "Cashed in despite inconsistent play the last two years." I was surprised to read this. Maybe it is something against the Vikes because I remember before we signed him everyone was saying how great he is. So I don't know why that's changed now.

PurplePackerEater
03-28-2005, 03:38 AM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:

The media just hates the vikings. It makes me so mad. I he was still an FA he would be rated 2nd or 1st.

We already traded Moss for below market value, what more does the Media want?? :???:

Jordy828
03-28-2005, 03:40 AM
Smoot will have a breakout year, Most INT's in the league. Thats what i think.

VikesRGreat
03-28-2005, 03:45 AM
"PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:

The media just hates the vikings. It makes me so mad. I he was still an FA he would be rated 2nd or 1st.

No its d@mn SI they dont like ANY Minnesota teams. Once in a while they like the Twins.

SI <----- :twisted:

DefensivePlaymaker
03-28-2005, 04:06 AM
"midgensa" wrote:

Yeah, I am not surprised by this. Smoot does get burned every now and then, but EVERY corner does. I also like how he indicated that Champ is so overatted. Typical of people to forget that Bailey is so gol 'darnit good just because he got burned a couple of times and was carrying a whole secondary on his shoulders (Lynch aint what he used to be).
Smoot is a GREAT corner. Definitely one of the top ten OVERALL in the league and better than any of the other free agent signings.
There is a reason the cnnsi.com gets less hits than foxsports, espn, cbssportsline, sportingnews and ABC sports .... it is because their writers suck!

exactly, cnnsi sucks!

cc21
03-28-2005, 04:10 AM
i dont think he is overrated

IdahoViking
03-28-2005, 04:14 AM
It is just another instance of the media looking to print anything.

Viking haters beware of the purple storm brewing!

Mr Anderson
03-28-2005, 04:37 AM
"vikez06" wrote:

BULL
Winfields scrappy defense

They don't mean scrappy as bad. They mean he is mean and hard hitting. Like you'd call a small guy who wins in a fight scrappy.


"Jordy828" wrote:

Smoot will have a breakout year, Most INT's in the league. Thats what i think.

Corners don't get lots of interceptions. Its the safeties who get all of the picks. I say Ed Reed, who is so fuckin good, or Darren Sharper gets the most picks this season. With the pressure our D-line will be applying, he'll pick 'em right out of the air.

favre4ever
03-28-2005, 04:59 AM
Sharper, most picks in the league. Have you watched him play the last two years?

fourdoorchevelle
03-28-2005, 05:04 AM
"favre4ever" wrote:

Sharper, most picks in the league. Have you watched him play the last two years?
yeah it's hard to get alot of picks when your the only player on that side of the ball , he's the only good d back u had

Paulbedy59
03-28-2005, 05:24 AM
I agree.sharper had a couple of down years running around trying to make up for everyone else.As far as SI goes.One of these days I,m going to be walking down a street and run into Dr Z ! Lookout baby! :boxing:

collegeguyjeff
03-28-2005, 05:56 AM
this isn't hard to belive coming from sports illustrated, they always hated us.

cajunvike
03-28-2005, 06:03 AM
"favre4ever" wrote:

Sharper, most picks in the league. Have you watched him play the last two years?

Yeah, trying to cover for Batman and Whoopi's inadequacies...now he will have Winfield and Smoot taking care of their business, so he will be free to roam the secondary and make more plays...his play will definitely benefit positively!!!

soljaofjesus
03-28-2005, 08:35 PM
Redskins fan here. stop belling achin.. THe media hates on teh redskins more then ne other football.. y because they know we are going to the top .. just like we beat THE VIKINGS and unknown guy Garnell Wilds held his own against who? RANDY MOSS .. sean taylor was beast that game and held his own against RANDY MOSS as well. REDSKINS 2005!!

cajunvike
03-28-2005, 09:03 PM
"soljaofjesus" wrote:

Redskins fan here. stop belling achin.. THe media hates on teh redskins more then ne other football.. y because they know we are going to the top .. just like we beat THE VIKINGS and unknown guy Garnell Wilds held his own against who? RANDY MOSS .. sean taylor was beast that game and held his own against RANDY MOSS as well. REDSKINS 2005!!

Now we all know why the Vikings got rid of Moss...because "unknown guy" Garnell Wilds "held his own against Moss"...I think the only thing Wilds held was Moss...or his own jock! :lol:

PurplePeopleEaters
03-28-2005, 10:05 PM
"soljaofjesus" wrote:

Redskins fan here. stop belling achin.. THe media hates on teh redskins more then ne other football.. y because they know we are going to the top .. just like we beat THE VIKINGS and unknown guy Garnell Wilds held his own against who? RANDY MOSS .. sean taylor was beast that game and held his own against RANDY MOSS as well. REDSKINS 2005!!
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I wish that Redskins fans would quit joking around. Are you kidding? Come on. Tell me who your QB is? Just because you have Gibbs back doesn't mean you are going to the super bowl. You have a good D but you need to get serious. Us vikings fans don't see us as SB champs unless we get a legit WR. I am sure Brunell will carry you on his back to the SB with Santana Moss. You don't even have the best MOSS in the league on your team. It is a pathetic.

Del Rio
03-28-2005, 10:12 PM
5. Fred Smoot, Minnesota -- Others would rate Smoot much higher than fifth, based solely on his pure coverage skills, which may be better than anybody else's on this list. But Smoot is also the least physical of these five cornerbacks, and with the sorry state of run defense and the restrictions placed on pass defenders in the NFL these days, being able to use your body a little bit is more important than ever. In summary, we think Smoot has been overrated. Maybe not to Champ Bailey levels (another ex-Redskins cornerback, perhaps that's the key), but at least in a relative sense compared to the rest of the league's upper-tier cornerbacks.

There are also those within the league who believe Smoot is a potential off-field problem waiting to happen. While he had no character issues in his four seasons in Washington, there were lingering questions dating from his college days at Mississippi State, and some teams were determined to shy away from him in free agency because of it.

We'll say this much for him: He chose well in signing with the Vikings. With the scrappy Antoine Winfield lining up on the other side of the field, Smoot doesn't have to walk in the door as Minnesota's No. 1 cornerback and face everybody's top receiver. That's Winfield's job, and he's usually up to the challenge. Smoot certainly talks a No. 1 game, but his skills are better suited to a secondary or complementary role.


Smoot is a bit overrated we have had Redskin fans here to let us know he got a great deal compared to what he can actually do on the field. I mean look what he is getting himself into here. He has accumulated a measly 182 tackles in his entire NFL carreer that is 4 seasons worth. Our corners last year made mid 80's each. That's in one season.

He's not a tackling kind of guy and recently our corners are being forced to be mini LB's. He will be forced to tackle and tackle often. And that can throw off his coverage game. Then again the last few years the Redskins have had a good group on D so maybe he just didn't have the opportunity to make the stops.

He is unproven as far as I'm concerned. He flew in the shadow of Bailey and now he is coming to a Minnesota team who is not kind to it's DB's and playing for a skeleton crew of a coaching staff. One thing is for sure he will have every opportunity to make believers out of the critics here.

No doubt he is better then what we had in some ways, but I do think he is a bit over-rated myself.

SKOL
03-28-2005, 10:39 PM
soljaofjesus :violent3:

ultravikingfan
03-28-2005, 11:31 PM
"soljaofjesus" wrote:

Redskins fan here. stop belling achin.. THe media hates on teh redskins more then ne other football.. y because they know we are going to the top .. just like we beat THE VIKINGS and unknown guy Garnell Wilds held his own against who? RANDY MOSS .. sean taylor was beast that game and held his own against RANDY MOSS as well. REDSKINS 2005!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/ultravikingfan/TROLLALERT.gif

RandyMoss8404
03-29-2005, 01:46 AM
They're wrong about Smoot

But we should have signed Kenny Lucas.

RandyMoss8404
03-29-2005, 01:51 AM
"soljaofjesus" wrote:

Redskins fan here. stop belling achin.. THe media hates on teh redskins more then ne other football.. y because they know we are going to the top .. just like we beat THE VIKINGS and unknown guy Garnell Wilds held his own against who? RANDY MOSS .. sean taylor was beast that game and held his own against RANDY MOSS as well. REDSKINS 2005!!

I'm sorry

Sean Taylor is a beast, but 'held his own' against Randy Moss?

Yes, he tipped away an underthrown jump ball. Wow. How amazing. The kid who's going to be the best safety in league history tipped away an underthrown ball from Randy Moss.

He didn't tip away that diving one handed catch in the end zone, did he? You know the one that went for 7 points?

Yes, that's right. You should stop talking.

GreenBaySlackers
03-29-2005, 04:46 AM
^^^
dude, your like my best friend... Illini and Vikes...

soljaofjesus
03-29-2005, 09:03 PM
O by the way our QB is ramsey not brunell...

also, doesn't really matter with or without the touchdown.. yall still got that L. thats right LOST .. 2 who? to the so called sorry redskins... Randy had a grap on the ball.. yall use to praise his abilities so much, so maybe he should of caught it

PurpleElf
03-29-2005, 09:17 PM
Don Banks is a moron, he's got Rolle ranked higher?
Rolle is what 5-6 years older then any of the other CB's that goes a long way in my book. I dunno what Dr. Banks has been smoking but putting Henry and Lucas ahead of Smoot is just idiocy. I wonder he has even watched any football or just asks Packer personnel for there scouting reports.

cajunvike
03-29-2005, 09:47 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

5. Fred Smoot, Minnesota -- Others would rate Smoot much higher than fifth, based solely on his pure coverage skills, which may be better than anybody else's on this list. But Smoot is also the least physical of these five cornerbacks, and with the sorry state of run defense and the restrictions placed on pass defenders in the NFL these days, being able to use your body a little bit is more important than ever. In summary, we think Smoot has been overrated. Maybe not to Champ Bailey levels (another ex-Redskins cornerback, perhaps that's the key), but at least in a relative sense compared to the rest of the league's upper-tier cornerbacks.

There are also those within the league who believe Smoot is a potential off-field problem waiting to happen. While he had no character issues in his four seasons in Washington, there were lingering questions dating from his college days at Mississippi State, and some teams were determined to shy away from him in free agency because of it.

We'll say this much for him: He chose well in signing with the Vikings. With the scrappy Antoine Winfield lining up on the other side of the field, Smoot doesn't have to walk in the door as Minnesota's No. 1 cornerback and face everybody's top receiver. That's Winfield's job, and he's usually up to the challenge. Smoot certainly talks a No. 1 game, but his skills are better suited to a secondary or complementary role.


Smoot is a bit overrated we have had Redskin fans here to let us know he got a great deal compared to what he can actually do on the field. I mean look what he is getting himself into here. He has accumulated a measly 182 tackles in his entire NFL carreer that is 4 seasons worth. Our corners last year made mid 80's each. That's in one season.

He's not a tackling kind of guy and recently our corners are being forced to be mini LB's. He will be forced to tackle and tackle often. And that can throw off his coverage game. Then again the last few years the Redskins have had a good group on D so maybe he just didn't have the opportunity to make the stops.

He is unproven as far as I'm concerned. He flew in the shadow of Bailey and now he is coming to a Minnesota team who is not kind to it's DB's and playing for a skeleton crew of a coaching staff. One thing is for sure he will have every opportunity to make believers out of the critics here.

No doubt he is better then what we had in some ways, but I do think he is a bit over-rated myself.

I will take the 5th rated CB in that comparison as our #2 any day...especially since most of the top CBs that were FAs this year are expected to step in and be #1s...not a bad rating for our second-best CB, IMHO!

Del Rio
03-29-2005, 09:49 PM
Well he could say that Lucas is a better corner because he is and his stats show he more versatile then Smoot.

He has 50 more tackles, 40 of which are solo. And he has ~20 more defended passess. Although he has a few less interceptions in his 4 year carreer he has managed more yards and to put points up on the board by scoring.

On the opposite side you have Winfield. I know everyone loves him and I am glad we have him. But he is a run stopper and his pass defense is nothing to be in awe over.


This puts it in perspective a bit.

Antione is a run stopper, he is a hard hitter and he records a large number of tackles many of them solo.

Smoot is mediocre in the run stopping and tackles category. He is a decent cover man and although his interception numbers are not amazing they are in the least consistant.

Now B. Williams, a lot of people love to hate the guy. But he has played one less year then smoot and has

3 more sacks,

only 17 less tackles (keep in mind he has played 16 less games)

Half of the interceptions, but again he is one season behind. And his highest season in regards to interceptions is 5, which is the same as Smoot.

he has only 7 less passess defended in 3 years compared to Smoots 4

He doesn't miss games due to injury. He has scored on the defensive side of the ball.

And my favorite number of his......he has 5 forced fumbles in 3 seasons.

Now Smoot is a good pickup, but I don't think he is the messiah people are making him out to be. He will make the team marginally better, but as far as not being the BEST CB in Free Agency I think the author hit it right on. Again I'm glad he is here. But he has some games to play before he can make me run out and buy a jersey. B.Williams matches his best year and is even more well rounded, I don't see why Smoot is going to be a saving grace on his own accord.

cajunvike
03-29-2005, 09:52 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Well he could say that Lucas is a better corner because he is and his stats show he more versatile then Smoot.

He has 50 more tackles, 40 of which are solo. And he has ~20 more defended passess. Although he has a few less interceptions in his 4 year carreer he has managed more yards and to put points up on the board by scoring.

On the opposite side you have Winfield. I know everyone loves him and I am glad we have him. But he is a run stopper and his pass defense is nothing to be in awe over.


This puts it in perspective a bit.

Antione is a run stopper, he is a hard hitter and he records a large number of tackles many of them solo.

Smoot is mediocre in the run stopping and tackles category. He is a decent cover man and although his interception numbers are not amazing they are in the least consistant.

Now B. Williams, a lot of people love to hate the guy. But he has played one less year then smoot and has

3 more sacks,

only 17 less tackles (keep in mind he has played 16 less games)

Half of the interceptions, but again he is one season behind. And his highest season in regards to interceptions is 5, which is the same as Smoot.

he has only 7 less passess defended in 3 years compared to Smoots 4

He doesn't miss games due to injury. He has scored on the defensive side of the ball.

And my favorite number of his......he has 5 forced fumbles in 3 seasons.

Now Smoot is a good pickup, but I don't think he is the messiah people are making him out to be. He will make the team marginally better, but as far as not being the BEST CB in Free Agency I think the author hit it right on. Again I'm glad he is here. But he has some games to play before he can make me run out and buy a jersey. B.Williams matches his best year and is even more well rounded, I don't see why Smoot is going to be a saving grace on his own accord.

The greatest thing is that we have BOTH Smoot and BWill...no matter what happens, we have two guys more than capable of being the #2 CB behind AWin...much more than we had last year with those no-names that had to step up when Irvin went out for the season!

ultravikingfan
03-29-2005, 09:58 PM
"soljaofjesus" wrote:

O by the way our QB is ramsey not brunell...

also, doesn't really matter with or without the touchdown.. yall still got that L. thats right LOST .. 2 who? to the so called sorry redskins... Randy had a grap on the ball.. yall use to praise his abilities so much, so maybe he should of caught it

Regardless of who is your QB, they still blow!

Yes, I will give you credit for the win last year.

Key word, LAST YEAR!

Vikes
03-29-2005, 10:11 PM
"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/don_banks/03/17/top.five.cbs/index.html

:shock: Check out this article. Wow, all of a sudden Smoot's not so good?!? I'm sooo sick of the media. I can't even click on an NFL site without them letting me know that the "Tice ticket scalping investigation continues" Who cares. We ALL know that is GOING to continue.

Quote from the article above: "In summary, we think Smoot has been overrated."

Quote from the article above: "There are also those within the league who believe Smoot is a potential off-field problem waiting to happen."

Thoughts?

Like he watches the Vikings.

michaelmazid
03-29-2005, 10:48 PM
Smooth hasn't reached his full potential yet. Rolle is on his way down. :pukeright:

ChiTownVike
03-30-2005, 05:49 AM
Ya, I can't wait for Smoot to come out and have a Pro Bowl year and the Vikings go to the SuperBowl. How will the media criticize us now. Ya, Elbarto you were right Randy's gone and they need someone else to criticize

fourdoorchevelle
03-30-2005, 06:07 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"soljaofjesus" wrote:

O by the way our QB is ramsey not brunell...

also, doesn't really matter with or without the touchdown.. yall still got that L. thats right LOST .. 2 who? to the so called sorry redskins... Randy had a grap on the ball.. yall use to praise his abilities so much, so maybe he should of caught it

Regardless of who is your QB, they still blow!

Yes, I will give you credit for the win last year.

Key word, LAST YEAR!speaking of last year how'd the skins playoops go last year? good season skins.

ItalianStallion
03-30-2005, 06:11 AM
Stats are deceptive. I was under the impression that Smoot was pretty good in run support, especially this past year. Ken Lucas was horribly overpaid this past season and is an average #1 corner. Baxter is wayyy overrated IMHO. Don't know much about henry...

Del Rio
03-30-2005, 02:05 PM
I would say that Smoot is terribly overpaid now, but I'll hold that crtisizm till he has had his shot.

VIKE$4LIFE
03-30-2005, 04:53 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

I would say that Smoot is terribly overpaid now, but I'll hold that crtisizm till he has had his shot.Smoot is not overpaid he is one of the top 5 corners in the league. HE is still young and is improving. VIKES will rule next year.

Del Rio
03-30-2005, 05:10 PM
"VIKE$4LIFE" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

I would say that Smoot is terribly overpaid now, but I'll hold that crtisizm till he has had his shot.Smoot is not overpaid he is one of the top 5 corners in the league. HE is still young and is improving. VIKES will rule next year.


Actually he isn't even in the top 30 for interceptions and he isn't even on the map for tackles. His passess defended are equivilent to Williams.

See to say he is a top 5 is all going off of hopes and dreams of this next season. He isn't. I guess you could say he is top 5 in free agency but even that would be a stretch. Smoot will be tested this season he wont have the comfort of being under better players shadows or playing for a DEFENSIVE mastermind like they have in Washington. If he is all that and a bag of chips, we will see.

cajunvike
03-30-2005, 05:24 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"VIKE$4LIFE" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

I would say that Smoot is terribly overpaid now, but I'll hold that crtisizm till he has had his shot.Smoot is not overpaid he is one of the top 5 corners in the league. HE is still young and is improving. VIKES will rule next year.


Actually he isn't even in the top 30 for interceptions and he isn't even on the map for tackles. His passess defended are equivilent to Williams.

See to say he is a top 5 is all going off of hopes and dreams of this next season. He isn't. I guess you could say he is top 5 in free agency but even that would be a stretch. Smoot will be tested this season he wont have the comfort of being under better players shadows or playing for a DEFENSIVE mastermind like they have in Washington. If he is all that and a bag of chips, we will see.

Hopefully a bag of those expensive gourmet chips!!!

ajefx
04-02-2005, 04:32 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

Actually he isn't even in the top 30 for interceptions and he isn't even on the map for tackles. His passess defended are equivilent to Williams.

See to say he is a top 5 is all going off of hopes and dreams of this next season. He isn't. I guess you could say he is top 5 in free agency but even that would be a stretch. Smoot will be tested this season he wont have the comfort of being under better players shadows or playing for a DEFENSIVE mastermind like they have in Washington. If he is all that and a bag of chips, we will see.
Save his rookie year under Marty (which wasn't even all that bad, considering he was a rookie), Smoot has excelled in Washington, and not just because of the guys around him or or defensive masterminds in Washington (who had a new defensive coordinator every year while Smoot was there, BTW). Washington hasn't had a consistent pass rush up until this year and he's still played well.

And INT's/tackles are not a good measure of a cornerback's skill. INT's usually result from a good pass rush (remember Ricky Manning two years ago? remember Ricky Manning last year?).

Tackles are the most useless stat because they are judgement calls by the scorer. A lot of times you'll see a guy get an assload of tackles at home and only 3 or 4 the next game on the road when the scorer isn't trying to pad his stats. Especially for a corner, who cares about his tackle numbers?

soljaofjesus
04-04-2005, 04:44 AM
"vikingman8411" wrote:

Ya, I can't wait for Smoot to come out and have a Pro Bowl year and the Vikings go to the SuperBowl. How will the media criticize us now. Ya, Elbarto you were right Randy's gone and they need someone else to criticize

smoot had a pro bowl year with us last year

soljaofjesus
04-04-2005, 04:51 AM
"fourdoorchevelle" wrote:

"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"soljaofjesus" wrote:

O by the way our QB is ramsey not brunell...

also, doesn't really matter with or without the touchdown.. yall still got that L. thats right LOST .. 2 who? to the so called sorry redskins... Randy had a grap on the ball.. yall use to praise his abilities so much, so maybe he should of caught it

Regardless of who is your QB, they still blow!

Yes, I will give you credit for the win last year.

Key word, LAST YEAR!speaking of last year how'd the skins playoops go last year? good season skins.

yea we didn't do so well offensively @ most times last year but ur fellow vikings friend said LAST YEAR. The Fact is it happened wether it was LAST YEAR OR LAST DECADE. Our offense was not great last year.. and we also beat yall last year. if we can beat a playoff team, doesn't that say something about us? 2 years ago when the patriots won the super bowl... who was one of the only 2 teams to ever beat them? Yea thats right.. the Washington Redskins

PurplePackerEater
04-04-2005, 05:15 AM
"soljaofjesus" wrote:

"vikingman8411" wrote:

Ya, I can't wait for Smoot to come out and have a Pro Bowl year and the Vikings go to the SuperBowl. How will the media criticize us now. Ya, Elbarto you were right Randy's gone and they need someone else to criticize

smoot had a pro bowl year with us last year

lol

diesavike
04-04-2005, 07:07 AM
I think its hard to measure a cb's talent in stats such as tackles and interceptions. For instance, anyone remember Jimmy Hitchcock, I believe one year he had 73 tackles for the Vikes, and watching him play I know it wasn't because he was good, it was because he was always at least 5 yards off of his man, so the quarterback had an easy shot at his reciever, and he was in the area to tackle the reciever. I think a cornerbacks main role is to cover his man and if he does that, his man isn't gonna get the ball thrown to him that often, thus limiting tackles, interceptions, and so on. Is Smoot overrated, I don't know, but I don't want to base it on stats.

RandyMoss8404
04-04-2005, 07:49 AM
I don't understand what you people are smoking.

Antoine Winfield gave up a league-low ONE touchdown last year, and we're questioning his cover skills?

Are you people nuts?

Del Rio
04-04-2005, 02:10 PM
"ajefx" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:

Actually he isn't even in the top 30 for interceptions and he isn't even on the map for tackles. His passess defended are equivilent to Williams.

See to say he is a top 5 is all going off of hopes and dreams of this next season. He isn't. I guess you could say he is top 5 in free agency but even that would be a stretch. Smoot will be tested this season he wont have the comfort of being under better players shadows or playing for a DEFENSIVE mastermind like they have in Washington. If he is all that and a bag of chips, we will see.
Save his rookie year under Marty (which wasn't even all that bad, considering he was a rookie), Smoot has excelled in Washington, and not just because of the guys around him or or defensive masterminds in Washington (who had a new defensive coordinator every year while Smoot was there, BTW). Washington hasn't had a consistent pass rush up until this year and he's still played well.

And INT's/tackles are not a good measure of a cornerback's skill. INT's usually result from a good pass rush (remember Ricky Manning two years ago? remember Ricky Manning last year?).

Tackles are the most useless stat because they are judgement calls by the scorer. A lot of times you'll see a guy get an assload of tackles at home and only 3 or 4 the next game on the road when the scorer isn't trying to pad his stats. Especially for a corner, who cares about his tackle numbers?


Well if you leave out his stats compared to the other CB's in the league and decide to profess he is gods gift then all your really saying is "I LIKE HIM A LOT HE ROCKS!!!"

Tackles are important and there isn't much judgement required especially in the solo field. Passess defended well that is his job right? And if you don't count interceptions what the hell is he good for. He is a good CB that's it. Ask the Redskin fans that actually watched him.

michaelmazid
04-04-2005, 05:12 PM
"RandyMoss8404" wrote:

I don't understand what you people are smoking.

Antoine Winfield gave up a league-low ONE touchdown last year, and we're questioning his cover skills?

Are you people nuts?

I know for sure he gave up one on a monday night to T.Ownes and one to greenbay at home. That two that I can remember.

V4L
04-04-2005, 05:23 PM
He gave up a TD to GB? i know he gave up the TO one but that wasnt even a catch so scratch that one

ajefx
04-04-2005, 11:07 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:


Well if you leave out his stats compared to the other CB's in the league and decide to profess he is gods gift then all your really saying is "I LIKE HIM A LOT HE ROCKS!!!"

Tackles are important and there isn't much judgement required especially in the solo field. Passess defended well that is his job right? And if you don't count interceptions what the hell is he good for. He is a good CB that's it. Ask the Redskin fans that actually watched him.
It seems we're both arguing that he's a good corner...from your original post, you seemed to be taking the stance that he wasn't that great...I misread your post, which in turn caused you to misinterpret mine I guess :oops:

Anyway, when you watch a football game, how many times do you see a corner make a solo tackle? A lot of times they aren't even in position to make a solo tackle.

Again, INT's require a lot more than just a good corner. A pass rush is required for most INT's. Because Smoot doesn't "rank" highly enough for you INT-wise doesn't mean he's garbage.

My point there is that there really is no objective way to measure a CB, unlike other positions (QB, HB, WR...mostly the offensive positions). I'm not saying INT's don't count (I love them...but remember, even Bryan Russell got his fair share two years ago), nor am I saying that about tackles (but I am aware that they can be a misleading statistic). To measure a cornerback', or any defensive player's worth, you have to watch them.

Which is your next point, too. However, I don't need to ask other people to form opinions for me. I've seen plenty of Smoot the past few years he's been here in Washington. I was at his first game as a Redskin and his last game as a Redskin. I've been to numerous games that he's played in, not to mention the games I've watched on TV or the practices/traning camps I've seen him at.

Oh, and to the Skins fan:
Where was Sean Taylor on Moss's TD grab? Getting burned.
Where was Sean Taylor on Culpepper's pass to Moss that Moss grabbed at the 10 or so and walked into the endzone before the play was called back due to a hold? Getting burned.

Paulbedy59
04-05-2005, 04:56 AM
Smoot is a GOOD corner,not great.Yet he is just getting into his prime,so we got him at the right time in his career. It will be interesting to watch and see... :salute:

thepacksux
04-05-2005, 08:24 AM
why must we argue whether0our UPGRADE at cb is as good as people say he is, we will find out when the season starts...

Del Rio
04-05-2005, 02:11 PM
"ajefx" wrote:

"Del Rio" wrote:


Well if you leave out his stats compared to the other CB's in the league and decide to profess he is gods gift then all your really saying is "I LIKE HIM A LOT HE ROCKS!!!"

Tackles are important and there isn't much judgement required especially in the solo field. Passess defended well that is his job right? And if you don't count interceptions what the hell is he good for. He is a good CB that's it. Ask the Redskin fans that actually watched him.
It seems we're both arguing that he's a good corner...from your original post, you seemed to be taking the stance that he wasn't that great...I misread your post, which in turn caused you to misinterpret mine I guess :oops:

Anyway, when you watch a football game, how many times do you see a corner make a solo tackle? A lot of times they aren't even in position to make a solo tackle.

Again, INT's require a lot more than just a good corner. A pass rush is required for most INT's. Because Smoot doesn't "rank" highly enough for you INT-wise doesn't mean he's garbage.

My point there is that there really is no objective way to measure a CB, unlike other positions (QB, HB, WR...mostly the offensive positions). I'm not saying INT's don't count (I love them...but remember, even Bryan Russell got his fair share two years ago), nor am I saying that about tackles (but I am aware that they can be a misleading statistic). To measure a cornerback', or any defensive player's worth, you have to watch them.

Which is your next point, too. However, I don't need to ask other people to form opinions for me. I've seen plenty of Smoot the past few years he's been here in Washington. I was at his first game as a Redskin and his last game as a Redskin. I've been to numerous games that he's played in, not to mention the games I've watched on TV or the practices/traning camps I've seen him at.

Oh, and to the Skins fan:
Where was Sean Taylor on Moss's TD grab? Getting burned.
Where was Sean Taylor on Culpepper's pass to Moss that Moss grabbed at the 10 or so and walked into the endzone before the play was called back due to a hold? Getting burned.

I can honestly say I have only seen footage on Smoot and I am still open minded about him I will see a ton of footage on him this year then I will begin to armchair, but my main concern is with people getting all juicy over one player or even a handful of players. Because like you said a lot of factors go into the game. Not only at CB. The line is effected by the LB's and the LB's by everyone as well. All it comes down to is doing your job.

The main reason I chimed in is because someone was criticizing an article written that basically said Smoot is overrated and that Lucas was better. And I simply said the article was correct. And then when you delve a little deeper it turned out that on paper Smoot is a B.Williams +1

Glad to have him, he has everything to proove.

V4L
04-05-2005, 02:38 PM
Yah personally im with ya Del Rio.. Smoot is a solid corner but Lucas is better.. Smoot is a little better then B-will i think.. but b-will is better then alot of ppl make him out to be..

VikingsTw
04-05-2005, 06:13 PM
B Wills the MAN!!! I think smoot's gonnna come in and play solid football for us, i think he's a great cover corner, i like lucas too, but i wanted smoot over lucas. I'm not gonna expect winfield though, he's a one of a kind CB, and he made a huge impact on our defense last year. B Will will see plenty of time, he's very durable, never misses a game and he's to good to keep off the field, HE MAKES PLAYS.

soljaofjesus
04-07-2005, 11:18 PM
Its not the league low.. because Shawn Springs didn't let up a TD all season either if memory servs me right

midgensa
04-07-2005, 11:51 PM
I am pretty sure Springs let up a TD or two, but I am not sure ...
I do know that Smoot is an excellent corner. I don't know how anyone could say otherwise. He is not a superstud or anything, but he is a legitimate top 10-15 corner in the league and alongside Winfield should be beast.
Lucas is slightly overrated I think. He is a BIG risk taker and got some picks out of it last year, but I know a Seahawks fan that is not all that unhappy to see him go (at least for the price). I don't think Lucas is quite as good as Smoot and pre-signing I would have said I would prefer Smoot over all the other corners that were available (except maybe a trade for Surtain).
All this said, Smoot should be exceptional as the No. 2 corner on a team with a superstud as their No. 1.

ajefx
04-08-2005, 03:25 AM
Personally, I've never been impressed with Ken Lucas. IMO Smoot is MUCH better than Lucas, but than again I've seen a lot more out of Smoot than I have Lucas. Even so, I hadn't really heard his name mentioned as a premier corner, even by Seahawks fans, who seem more impressed with Trufant at CB. I'm glad we didn't get him, but I may be wrong.

PurpleElf
04-08-2005, 04:34 AM
Smoot is a better corner than Lucas NO DOUBT! Im
he!!a glad the Vikes signed Smoot and not Lucas. Im not saying Lucas is a bad corner but just not as good as Smoot.

DarrinNelsonguy
04-08-2005, 04:40 AM
Lucas is not much better than Smoot and if so not by much and he got much more money than we gave Smoot, so they overpaid for Lucas