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View Full Version : What makes a great pass rush?



PurplePharaoh
03-19-2005, 11:27 PM
Great defensive line, or great defensive backs?

ultravikingfan
03-19-2005, 11:30 PM
Both go hand-in-hand.

PurplePharaoh
03-19-2005, 11:34 PM
Can you have a great defensive back field and an average d-line, but because the DB's are able to cover longer the d-line has more time to get to the QB, and make the d-line better then it is? Cause I think thats what we have in Minnesota right now.

cc21
03-20-2005, 12:23 AM
i think we have an awsome d line and d backs. Smoot, Sharper, Chavous, Winfield, than we have the best K will, Pat willaims, udeze and mixon, i mean come on, we are gonna be so good next year

Paulbedy59
03-20-2005, 05:45 AM
one compliments the other as stated above.We have what should be an excellent secondary,complimented by a solid front four.That should equal sacks and int,s.. :salute:

dbalke10
03-20-2005, 08:02 AM
Very rarely do we see the rush DE that comes off the edge to drop the QB before he gets into his progressive reads on a consistant basis. My feelings have always been that a dominant defensive line wasn't let down by the defensive backs but by the linebacking core. When you get quick consistant pressure on a QB, he immediately starts thinking 10 yards or less.
On the other side, even a quality defensive backfield can only cover for 4-5 seconds. The defensive line has to bring pressure prior to that. Its all about balance, boys. And for the first time, in forever, it looks like we got some.

mark
03-20-2005, 08:06 AM
"coreychavous21" wrote:

i think we have an awsome d line and d backs. Smoot, Sharper, Chavous, Winfield, than we have the best K will, Pat willaims, udeze and mixon, i mean come on, we are gonna be so good next year

Thats what everybody including me said last year. well see

sitandbehitski
03-20-2005, 10:35 AM
Yeah, but last year Udeze had a shoulder injury, we lost our Nickel back for the season, Hovan fell off the face of the earth, Mixon was to Drunk to play and our LB-ers absolutely sucked.

maybe nothing will change but I have a feeling it will.

ItalianStallion
03-20-2005, 11:20 AM
Both, although you can't get ANY pressure without a good defensive line, no matter how long receivers are covered they will always get open eventually.

koolkev8
03-20-2005, 11:30 AM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

Both go hand-in-hand.

True that!!! :salute:

vikes09
03-20-2005, 03:36 PM
i think it relies heavily on the dline more than the dbacks. if the dline gets to the qb then the corners dont have to cover hardly at all. the dline could be trying to get vick or whoever forever, and eventually the a wr will get free. a pair of speed des will make a defense look good. i think thats what makes phillys defense so good. infact i know thats why almost all the secondary got on the probowl bc they dont hardly have to cover!

dan3ski
03-20-2005, 04:06 PM
I live in Denver and even Champ Baily got abused here because the defensive line could not pressure the Qb.

midgensa
03-20-2005, 04:11 PM
"PurplePharaoh" wrote:

Can you have a great defensive back field and an average d-line, but because the DB's are able to cover longer the d-line has more time to get to the QB, and make the d-line better then it is? Cause I think thats what we have in Minnesota right now.

I think the pass rush is often based on the scheme. I definitely think that the Defensive line is a little more important than the back field though because any receiver can get open if there is not pressure on the QB, it does not matter who is covering them. Just look at Champ last year. Still the best corner in the league, but on weeks where the Broncos could not get to the QB, Champ got burned by some playmakers because one-on-one the DB just has a huge disadvantage with no pressure up front.

EDIT, LOL, did not see the post right above this ...

VKG4LFE
03-20-2005, 04:11 PM
Great players, make a great pass rush!!

fourdoorchevelle
03-20-2005, 04:35 PM
all game plans start up front. with out proper blocking the foundation of every play is blown up. what good would a running game with the running back getting hit right after he gets the ball . don't get me wrong playmakers make plays , catch ints and not drop them , more and better oppurtunities will appear with better play makers. not to mention most passing schemes don't get very far when the pocket collapses three steps in. wham .... blind sided.

TheAnimal93
03-20-2005, 05:01 PM
"PurplePharaoh" wrote:

Great defensive line, or great defensive backs?

Looks like we will find out this year!!!! We have both it certainly looks to be. I would have to say that it does start up front and the more pressure the more mistakes. The more mistakes the more opportunities to capitalize on those mistakes.

Del Rio
03-21-2005, 07:26 AM
It's a team game.

You need a balance of stunts and blitzes. We have a great D-line, we had one last year what did you think about the pressure? DE first job is to contain then to shrink the pocket. Most of your pressure will come from the gut weather it be from a linebacker or a defensive tackle.

I think the line suffered a lot last year because of the poor defensive back play. Like an above poster said the QB starts thinking 10 yards or less. To take that a step further if the corners are way off the line the QB can settle for a 7 yard pass. He isn't making a decision that is forced by pressure he is making a decision based on what is given to him.

I honestly feel coaching makes a great pass rush. You can take a bunch of average players and put them in the right situation and let them shine.

DefensivePlaymaker
03-21-2005, 02:46 PM
"PurplePharaoh" wrote:

Great defensive line, or great defensive backs?

pressure on the qb is where it starts. from the d-line, to the linebackers, to the corners and safeties. it doesn't matter how good your dbacks are, if the other teams quarterback never has time to go through his reads and find the open receiver....then they won't be able to throw. if your d-line is horrible and the quarterback has all day to throw the ball, eventually the wide receivers will get open. it'd be nice to get a good DE pass rusher with our #18 pick. then our line would look REAL good...such as Udeze, P. Will., K. Will., Dan Cody (or other).

x-ray jeff
03-21-2005, 03:14 PM
I have to say a great D-Line.
Back in the days of the PPE I remember how they talked about the DB's having it so much easier because of the pass rush.The rules have changed some since then ,but I still believe it all starts up front.

Paulbedy59
03-23-2005, 05:55 PM
It does all start up front in the trenches.I think the one thing we still lack is that superior pass ruching end.Mixon is a run stopper and Udeleze is a left end,also more run stopping than pass rushing.We need that terror coming from thr QB,s blind side... :salute:

IdahoViking
03-23-2005, 05:59 PM
Plugging up the middle on the run and pushing the pocket back in the passing game.

Pat Williams will do both.

vikes09
03-23-2005, 06:01 PM
i think we need to seriously get a pass rushing de in pollack or roth. pollack would be my opinion though if he is still there. i want him to be our speedster from the outside.

Paulbedy59
03-23-2005, 06:05 PM
Okay vikes 09 now your talking.I think Merriman also could excell at the position.270 pound running a 4.5 ,yeah he can get there!! :cheers:

Mr Anderson
03-23-2005, 07:37 PM
Of course you need good coverage, but the d-linemen are too focused on size speed and strength.

FUNDAMENTALS!

They're key, If you have a good explosive stance, quick feet, take youre correct steps, and put the swim and rip move to use well. You will be good. It also helps to be 6'5 and 275 pounds. Like look at Peppers. He's awesome.

He is one of the fastest Dlinemen Ive ever seen and his play is perfect. Best end in the league if you ask me. Next to a healthy Michael Strahan.

PurplePharaoh
03-23-2005, 08:27 PM
Excellent points everyone

eelpout72
03-23-2005, 08:42 PM
a good pass rush comes from everything stated here already in this thread plus a good offense. If your offense scores early and often that makes the opposing team's offense more 1 dimensional and consequently, your defense can focus more on the pass.

briboy75
03-23-2005, 10:53 PM
"sitandbehitski" wrote:

Yeah, but last year Udeze had a shoulder injury, we lost our Nickel back for the season, Hovan fell off the face of the earth, Mixon was to Drunk to play and our LB-ers absolutely sucked.

maybe nothing will change but I have a feeling it will.

Stuff happens to every team, every year.

While I'm excited about next year, the extreme, blind optimism by some people (notice I said some) is almost annoying. Its fun to speculate, but lets wait until we see these guys together on a football field before declaing them the supber bowl champions.

briboy75
03-23-2005, 10:56 PM
"eelpout72" wrote:

a good pass rush comes from everything stated here already in this thread plus a good offense. If your offense scores early and often that makes the opposing team's offense more 1 dimensional and consequently, your defense can focus more on the pass.

True.

I'm kind of sick of the defense-wins-championchips mantra... It may be mostly true, but way over emphasized.

Bottom line; you score more points then you give up, you win.

ultravikingfan
03-23-2005, 11:31 PM
"briboy75" wrote:

"eelpout72" wrote:

a good pass rush comes from everything stated here already in this thread plus a good offense. If your offense scores early and often that makes the opposing team's offense more 1 dimensional and consequently, your defense can focus more on the pass.

True.

I'm kind of sick of the defense-wins-championchips mantra... It may be mostly true, but way over emphasized.

Bottom line; you score more points then you give up, you win.

Sorry, but its true IMO.

michaelmazid
03-23-2005, 11:35 PM
The Vikes arguebly have the best secondary in the league now with the addition of Sharper and Smoot. Can anyone name a better secondary? maybe baltimore but they lost fred baxter. I can't think of a better secondary.

ultravikingfan
03-23-2005, 11:49 PM
"michaelmazid" wrote:

The Vikes arguebly have the best secondary in the league now with the addition of Sharper and Smoot. Can anyone name a better secondary? maybe baltimore but they lost fred baxter. I can't think of a better secondary.

Baltimore. They lost Baxter but got Rolle! He is a big improvement over Baxter!

IbleedPURPLEandGOLD
03-24-2005, 12:15 AM
a great pass rush needs great pass rushers. a good secondary helps.

NordicNed
03-24-2005, 07:22 AM
I say, eat two heads of cabbage before the game, should give you all the gas needed for that extra burst of speed.....LOL....

ultravikingfan
03-24-2005, 08:03 AM
"VikingNed" wrote:

I say, eat two heads of cabbage before the game, should give you all the gas needed for that extra burst of speed.....LOL....

http://www.smilies-and-more.de/pics/smilies/obscene/073.gif

JLDII
03-24-2005, 11:48 AM
A lot of good points so far. My take on a good pass rush are;

1. I'd love to see a speed DE that could fly in off the edge and level the QB, but right now we don't have that person. Closest one would be Johnstone. Otherwise, our DE's are basically a bull rush style, good for collapsing the pocket, but they don't get around the outside very well.

2. Pressure the pocket up the middle, force the QB out of the pocket and to the outside so the DE can take them out. PWill and KWill should be more than able to do that.

3. Disrupt the blocking scheme of the offense with stunts and blitzes. Here is where I think we can make the biggest improvement. With the newly designed backfield we have, we should be able to blitz safeties or corners now. Not something we've done much of the last few years, at least not successfully.

4. Lastly, if the players are picking up the schemes alright, I think we have the personel to be able to mix in a zone blitz from time to time also.

I hope we develope that real strong pass rush we want, because I think with PWill, we will be forcing alot of 3rd and longs this year. Nothing is more demoralizing for an offense than to be in that situation and have your QB totally eaten alive by the pass rush!!! :spam1:

ItalianStallion
03-24-2005, 12:59 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"briboy75" wrote:

"eelpout72" wrote:

a good pass rush comes from everything stated here already in this thread plus a good offense. If your offense scores early and often that makes the opposing team's offense more 1 dimensional and consequently, your defense can focus more on the pass.

True.

I'm kind of sick of the defense-wins-championchips mantra... It may be mostly true, but way over emphasized.

Bottom line; you score more points then you give up, you win.

Sorry, but its true IMO.

Except when the rams won...

Mr Anderson
03-24-2005, 01:25 PM
The Rams didnt have a bad defense either.


Over the past few years our defense has been, bad.

When they won the super bowl they were scoring a lot, but their defense was decent.

If you could say, except when the Rams won.....


That would mean we should have won in 98.... but we didn't.... Gary