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Angryviking
03-14-2005, 10:52 PM
I was just wondering where the Vikings would end up statically defensively and how many turnovers do you think we will get this year with our revamped D?

KJ
03-14-2005, 11:01 PM
I'd guess that they'll be ranked about #10 overall, and then maybe next year will become top 5 material after a year of working together.

GettinWiggyWidIt
03-14-2005, 11:04 PM
It all starts up front for the vikes. Last year we were in the bottom third for takeaways, with only 19. This year we'll see fewer doubles on K-will if P-will stays healthy. That creates more sacks along with the development of of Udeze and the LB corps. Those pressures create more balls for the now great secondary. Sharper has averaged 6 picks in the past five years with an, at times, arguably crappier D. I see a jump in takeaways to about 30.

LunchBox
03-14-2005, 11:10 PM
See, i don't think that Pat is gonna help us get more sacks at all. There is no way that he will EVER be doubled on a pass play and Kevin is still going to see all those double teams. As far as overall defense, i would say about 15-20th. Our D always disappoints me and i won't believe that we have a good one until i see it.

ultravikingfan
03-14-2005, 11:12 PM
"LunchBox" wrote:

See, i don't think that Pat is gonna help us get more sacks at all. There is no way that he will EVER be doubled on a pass play and Kevin is still going to see all those double teams. As far as overall defense, i would say about 15-20th. Our D always disappoints me and i won't believe that we have a good one until i see it.

Thats fine. Udeze can have all the sacks from the lineman, and we'll pick up more with our blitzes. Way to stay positive! :cheers:

mrkodi
03-14-2005, 11:19 PM
"KJ" wrote:

I'd guess that they'll be ranked about #10 overall, and then maybe next year will become top 5 material after a year of working together.

So you are expecting almost worst to first???? :colors: :colors: LOLOLOOLOLOOLOL

Angryviking
03-14-2005, 11:20 PM
I think if we can get some more experience and leadership and LBs we're going to be fine, and Harris isn't all that experienced so i dunno how we are gonna do up the middle again. i think we're gonna be better against the run that's for sure with Pat

Caine
03-15-2005, 12:38 AM
1st, for Lunchbox: Pat Williams will draw a double due to his size. Even on passing downs, that's a whole mountain comming in. Imagine the look of horror in the eyes of an opposing QB as that monstrosity collapses the pocket from the front. If he stays healthy, it will become a "pick your poison" front...something we've sorely lacked in recent years.

2nd, for Mrkodi: I'll answer for KJ, "Yes, I do expect a huge jump in Defensive rankings". What you likely don't realize is that our pathetic performance in the past couple of years wasn't due to lack of talent, but lack of talent in key positions...we have addressed that. All 3 Defensive tiers have been improved, all while retaining the better elements of the previous D.

While a leap into the top 10 might be a stretch, the top 15 is reachable. The #10 D was Philly with an average of 319.7 yds per game allowed. Cleveland was #15 with 325.9, while we sat at number 28 with 368.9. Can we gain back 45 yards per game? Absolutely. And, from there, it's only another 4-5 to crack the top 10.

So, again, it is not only possible but probable that the Viking Defense will be a much higher ranked squad over last season. Especially when you consider that 243.5 of those yards last season came in the air - our biggest area of improvement. After all, where are you going to throw? At Winfield or Smoot?

Pick your poison.

Caine

fourdoorchevelle
03-15-2005, 01:23 AM
"LunchBox" wrote:

See, i don't think that Pat is gonna help us get more sacks at all. There is no way that he will EVER be doubled on a pass play and Kevin is still going to see all those double teams. As far as overall defense, i would say about 15-20th. Our D always disappoints me and i won't believe that we have a good one until i see it.sorry but pat is a raging bull that won't be contained. the only thing that will keep him from getting doubled is him getting a breather on 3rd and long . but johnston will put on a nice pass rush in williams place. i would love to see a top ten d but will wait and see

midgensa
03-15-2005, 01:55 AM
"LunchBox" wrote:

See, i don't think that Pat is gonna help us get more sacks at all. There is no way that he will EVER be doubled on a pass play and Kevin is still going to see all those double teams. As far as overall defense, i would say about 15-20th. Our D always disappoints me and i won't believe that we have a good one until i see it.

Of course the D always disappoints, we never hve enough talent. P-Will should help on pass plays just by taking up space, and Nap is a much better coverage LB than what we have had. With just that little more pressure on the QB and such good hands additions to the secondary (as well as the hard hits that Smoot and Sharper bring to jar balls loose) we should see some more picks. I would definitely bet on one of the CBs getinng 5-6 and one of the Safety's getting 5-6 while the others should still get 3 to 4. Turnovers should go up significantly.

finnishvikingsfan
03-15-2005, 01:56 AM
I really hope you are right about the turnovers.

fourdoorchevelle
03-15-2005, 01:57 AM
turnover can't really get worse .i want 2003 turnover ratio

jdvike
03-15-2005, 10:45 AM
Some if this will depend on how long the defense has to be on the field.If our offense can move the ball(sans moss) and control the clock. The defense will be well rested, and at the top of there game imho .

PurplePeopleEaters
03-15-2005, 10:51 AM
I agree wot everyone defending P-Will. He is such a beast on defense. He is exactly what we have been needing ever since Hovan became....well.....bad. He can stuff the run and on pass plays, he is so huge that there is no way NOT to double team him.

I agree with caine. Pick your poison. It is either Udeze, who may emerge as a star, K-Will, Our best D player, or Phat Pat, a huge load who has the best run stffing ability of all of them.

pillageNplunderthunder
03-15-2005, 10:56 AM
"LunchBox" wrote:

See, i don't think that Pat is gonna help us get more sacks at all. There is no way that he will EVER be doubled on a pass play and Kevin is still going to see all those double teams. As far as overall defense, i would say about 15-20th. Our D always disappoints me and i won't believe that we have a good one until i see it.

nice thoughts.. however consider this... with p-will in the middle every team HAS to put 2 bodies on him at all times because he's litterally that big... (not a hovan double team0 but a REAL double team... that frees the linebackers to gain speed through the line, not help push the o line open and Then gain speed... people don't realize what a difference P- will will make!!!

pillageNplunderthunder
03-15-2005, 10:58 AM
"midgensa" wrote:

"LunchBox" wrote:

See, i don't think that Pat is gonna help us get more sacks at all. There is no way that he will EVER be doubled on a pass play and Kevin is still going to see all those double teams. As far as overall defense, i would say about 15-20th. Our D always disappoints me and i won't believe that we have a good one until i see it.

Of course the D always disappoints, we never hve enough talent. P-Will should help on pass plays just by taking up space, and Nap is a much better coverage LB than what we have had. With just that little more pressure on the QB and such good hands additions to the secondary (as well as the hard hits that Smoot and Sharper bring to jar balls loose) we should see some more picks. I would definitely bet on one of the CBs getinng 5-6 and one of the Safety's getting 5-6 while the others should still get 3 to 4. Turnovers should go up significantly.

with brian russel going bye bye... that should atomatically give the FS 4 more picks.... GO SHARPER!!!

XTAP59
03-15-2005, 11:03 AM
the games outcome is determined by mere split seconds. If our new and improved corners and safeties can cover another half second, it will give the D line that precious time to sack the QB.
I see the Vikes ranked 18th over all on defense this year. And that is a mighty improvement from 2004.

sitandbehitski
03-15-2005, 11:16 AM
It all depends on EJ & DT, those two need to step up in a huge way if our D is gonna be as good as everyone hopes.

ultravikingfan
03-15-2005, 11:53 AM
"XTAP59" wrote:

the games outcome is determined by mere split seconds. If our new and improved corners and safeties can cover another half second, it will give the D line that precious time to sack the QB.
I see the Vikes ranked 18th over all on defense this year. And that is a mighty improvement from 2004.

I agree. The defensive rank in by yards of by PA. It does not reflect turnovers or points scored by a defense. I think we will be in the top 10 in points scored.

Del Rio
03-15-2005, 12:21 PM
"pillageNplunderthunder" wrote:

"LunchBox" wrote:

See, i don't think that Pat is gonna help us get more sacks at all. There is no way that he will EVER be doubled on a pass play and Kevin is still going to see all those double teams. As far as overall defense, i would say about 15-20th. Our D always disappoints me and i won't believe that we have a good one until i see it.

nice thoughts.. however consider this... with p-will in the middle every team HAS to put 2 bodies on him at all times because he's litterally that big... (not a hovan double team0 but a REAL double team... that frees the linebackers to gain speed through the line, not help push the o line open and Then gain speed... people don't realize what a difference P- will will make!!!

The only time it would be a priority to Double Fat Pat is when they are trying to run up the gut. And even then if they get him turned the second lineman will scrape off and pick up a LB.

He is not a pass rushing threat. Pass blocking first step is backwards. Pat Williams will effect our run D. I'm not so sure how he will effect our Pass Rush yet. Qb's hold the ball what .............4 seconds...........Be surprised if Pat is even off the line by then LMAO. He takes up space. If you want to see more production in terms of pass rush and such I would be more focused on Udeze and Scott and the job they do.

Also maybe mix a blitz in there this year they are useful at times LMAO. :thumbright:

GothamVike
03-15-2005, 12:54 PM
Ha. Indeed. It's going to come down to Udeze and Scott, as well as whether or not they breathe some new energy into the kind of weird, squirrelly, risk-averse schemes Cottrell seemed to call last year. I thought I saw them blitz once last year as I was coming back from the kitchen, but then I realized it was just a "Game-Break" from a Ravens game...

cajunvike
03-15-2005, 02:35 PM
"Del Rio" wrote:

"pillageNplunderthunder" wrote:

"LunchBox" wrote:

See, i don't think that Pat is gonna help us get more sacks at all. There is no way that he will EVER be doubled on a pass play and Kevin is still going to see all those double teams. As far as overall defense, i would say about 15-20th. Our D always disappoints me and i won't believe that we have a good one until i see it.

nice thoughts.. however consider this... with p-will in the middle every team HAS to put 2 bodies on him at all times because he's litterally that big... (not a hovan double team0 but a REAL double team... that frees the linebackers to gain speed through the line, not help push the o line open and Then gain speed... people don't realize what a difference P- will will make!!!

The only time it would be a priority to Double Fat Pat is when they are trying to run up the gut. And even then if they get him turned the second lineman will scrape off and pick up a LB.

He is not a pass rushing threat. Pass blocking first step is backwards. Pat Williams will effect our run D. I'm not so sure how he will effect our Pass Rush yet. Qb's hold the ball what .............4 seconds...........Be surprised if Pat is even off the line by then LMAO. He takes up space. If you want to see more production in terms of pass rush and such I would be more focused on Udeze and Scott and the job they do.

Also maybe mix a blitz in there this year they are useful at times LMAO. :thumbright:

Phat Pat will affect our pass defense by coming out of the game on third down and Johnstone coming in FRESH (sliding DScott over to DT or Spencer Johnson coming in FRESH)...Phat Pat will have ground down the interior O-line on first and second downs, so that our fresh troops can bull rush them, collapsing the pocket and allowing the DEs to tattoo opposing QBs...or throw ill-advised passes to be picked off by our much-improved secondary or soon-to-be emerging LBs!!!! :D