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singersp
07-11-2014, 09:02 AM
The Norv Turner effect - Good luck Vikings!

Panic Button - The Norv Turner effect - Good luck Vikings! (http://panicbutton.sportsblog.com/posts/393511/the_norv_turner_effect_good.html)

AngloVike
07-11-2014, 09:16 AM
Wow someone has some serious issues with Turner..... lol

jargomcfargo
07-11-2014, 09:19 AM
The Norv Turner effect - Good luck Vikings!

Panic Button - The Norv Turner effect - Good luck Vikings! (http://panicbutton.sportsblog.com/posts/393511/the_norv_turner_effect_good.html)
This blogger is trolling for clicks.

idahovikefan7
07-11-2014, 12:01 PM
Or how about this as the "Norv Turner effect"?


Turner was the offensive coordinator with the Dallas Cowboys on Jimmy Johnson's staff when Dallas won back-to-back Super Bowls in 1992 and 1993. Turner got much of the credit for not only their success, but for helping shape quarterback Troy Aikman into a Hall of Fame player. Upon arriving in Dallas, Turner took over an offense that was dead last in the NFL in total yards averaging 255.1 yds/gm and scoring 15.2 pts/gm, his impact was immediate.

Norv Turner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norv_Turner#Dallas_Cowboys)

drewlovs
07-11-2014, 02:05 PM
The man ripped our OL, ALL the QBs and all the talent we have on our team. Every time Turner did well in the past was excused by "Well, look at the talent he had there!" Underneath that is, "The Vikings don't have that type of talent."

Screw him, let him take that hate he is holding back the the troll hole he came from.

C Mac D
07-11-2014, 03:29 PM
Turner is awful, has been for years... but he's got to be better than Musgrave.

MaxVike
07-11-2014, 07:58 PM
Turner is awful, has been for years... but he's got to be better than Musgrave.

wow, just, wow. Your POV is clearly in conflict with 90+% of not only PP.O, but, virtually every expert, analyst, former GM, former players coached by Norv, etc. (no, I'm not attaching clips, YouTubes, links, etc.) that I've listened to on Sirius, watched on NFL Network, and ESPN.

Why, do you say "Turner is awful?" And, I'm not asking for links, videos, just your POV.

idahovikefan7
07-12-2014, 01:13 AM
wow, just, wow. Your POV is clearly in conflict with 90+% of not only PP.O, but, virtually every expert, analyst, former GM, former players coached by Norv, etc. (no, I'm not attaching clips, YouTubes, links, etc.) that I've listened to on Sirius, watched on NFL Network, and ESPN.

Why, do you say "Turner is awful?" And, I'm not asking for links, videos, just your POV.

I take anything C mac D says, no matter what it might be, and believe the complete opposite of what is said being 99.8% likelihood the actual truth and fact. It's actually kind of nice, because at that rate every single personnel to ever be associated with the vikings organization including coaches, players, coordinators, owners, fans, ect. are the "greatest" and most "successful" at their jobs EVER. I actually took a liking for Childress for the sole reason of C mac Ds hate for him.

Turner is a proven successful OC, his past doesn't lie. Maybe he hasn't had the GREATEST past of being a head-coach, but as a coordinator and coach/teacher in general he's one of the greatest. Like MaxVike already mentioned; any expert, analyst or person with NFL knowledge would agree. It's not only what's been said about him, but his stats and success tell you the rest.

To say he's "awful" is childish if you ask me. Something that would probably come from someone who is miserable with their own life but GET OFF by being 100% negative 100% of the time, or has no NFL or football knowledge what so ever.

I apologize for the rant, but the constant negativity one guy can bring gets old. Definitely a "Debbie downer" at it's finest. I can't even imagine all the "buzz kills" he's handed out in person through his life being as negative and depressed he portrays himself to be online. But I guess that also requires being invited or present to any parties or celebrations through the years as well, and my gut feeling is leaning towards not very many if any at all so I could definitely be wrong about that...Poor guy. Now hurry up with your cute little remark or picture you are dying to post.

thorshammer
07-12-2014, 03:28 PM
What a tool. We will be vastly improved with Turner.

purplehelmut
07-14-2014, 08:36 AM
Some guys make better coordinators than HCs. That's a fact. Norv seems to be one of those guys.

C Mac D
07-14-2014, 10:46 AM
I take anything C mac D says, no matter what it might be, and believe the complete opposite of what is said being 99.8% likelihood the actual truth and fact. It's actually kind of nice, because at that rate every single personnel to ever be associated with the vikings organization including coaches, players, coordinators, owners, fans, ect. are the "greatest" and most "successful" at their jobs EVER. I actually took a liking for Childress for the sole reason of C mac Ds hate for him.

Turner is a proven successful OC, his past doesn't lie. Maybe he hasn't had the GREATEST past of being a head-coach, but as a coordinator and coach/teacher in general he's one of the greatest. Like MaxVike already mentioned; any expert, analyst or person with NFL knowledge would agree. It's not only what's been said about him, but his stats and success tell you the rest.

To say he's "awful" is childish if you ask me. Something that would probably come from someone who is miserable with their own life but GET OFF by being 100% negative 100% of the time, or has no NFL or football knowledge what so ever.

I apologize for the rant, but the constant negativity one guy can bring gets old. Definitely a "Debbie downer" at it's finest. I can't even imagine all the "buzz kills" he's handed out in person through his life being as negative and depressed he portrays himself to be online. But I guess that also requires being invited or present to any parties or celebrations through the years as well, and my gut feeling is leaning towards not very many if any at all so I could definitely be wrong about that...Poor guy. Now hurry up with your cute little remark or picture you are dying to post.

Eh, perhaps "awful" was a bit childish... but he has been far from stellar. His great offenses haven't produced many post-season appearances, aside from the Cowboys. His offenses have ranked 31st and 17th in the past two seasons respectively.

And to say I'm wrong about everything is absolutely more childish than saying Turner is awful. It's hard for many on this site to admit, but I'm usually correct about 95% of the time... Hell, I even said before the 2009 season that Favre would end our season with an INT in the playoffs... and that was right after I said Brian Robison should be starting over Ray Edwards.

But I understand why you would call me out like that. Insecurity can be tough to deal with.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw

idahovikefan7
07-14-2014, 12:41 PM
But I understand why you would call me out like that. Insecurity can be tough to deal with.

Wow that's it? Really?! You are grasping for straws at this point I see.

C Mac D
07-14-2014, 12:54 PM
Wow that's it? Really?! You are grasping for straws at this point I see.

Eh... I'm not the one that resorted to personal attacks to start with. If you'd like to actually point to something Norv Turner has done in the past couple years to back-up your opinion, that would be great.

And why cut-and-paste that one part of my response? Be a man, respond to everything I said.

midgensa
07-14-2014, 01:40 PM
Turner is awful, has been for years... but he's got to be better than Musgrave.

While I agree that the guys saying they think the opposite of you because you are almost always wrong are idiots (seriously ... you're going to argue that Brad Childress should be a head coach still just because C Mac was against it from day one?!) on this one they may have a point.

Awful? That is certainly a little harsh. Norv has been a HC or OC for 23 years in the league and of those 23 years 14 times his offense was in the top half of the league. Eight times he was in the top 10 in the league. Obviously his one year in Cleveland was not great, but considering their roster, I think putting up the No. 18 offense was not that bad. Hell, the QBs went down left and right.

Obviously he had ridiculous talent to work with in Dallas, but as recently as 2010 he had the No. 1 offense in the ENTIRE NFL. In 2011 he had the No. 6 offense in the league. You asked for "recent success" and that is fairly recent. From 2007 to 2011, he had a top 5 offense in scoring for five-consecutive seasons.

That is hardly "awful." I think Norv is a pretty solid OC ... and, honestly, thought he was a decent head coach. He has shown when he has tools he can be very solid and bring out offenses that produce. With AD, Jennings, Rudolph and Patterson he has some tools here.

I will be one of the first to tell him to hit the bricks and I understand the pessimism ... but I think right now, there is plenty of reason to think the offense is going to be on the uptick this season.

C Mac D
07-14-2014, 01:52 PM
While I agree that the guys saying they think the opposite of you because you are almost always wrong are idiots (seriously ... you're going to argue that Brad Childress should be a head coach still just because C Mac was against it from day one?!) on this one they may have a point.

Awful? That is certainly a little harsh. Norv has been a HC or OC for 23 years in the league and of those 23 years 14 times his offense was in the top half of the league. Eight times he was in the top 10 in the league. Obviously his one year in Cleveland was not great, but considering their roster, I think putting up the No. 18 offense was not that bad. Hell, the QBs went down left and right.

Obviously he had ridiculous talent to work with in Dallas, but as recently as 2010 he had the No. 1 offense in the ENTIRE NFL. In 2011 he had the No. 6 offense in the league. You asked for "recent success" and that is fairly recent. From 2007 to 2011, he had a top 5 offense in scoring for five-consecutive seasons.

That is hardly "awful." I think Norv is a pretty solid OC ... and, honestly, thought he was a decent head coach. He has shown when he has tools he can be very solid and bring out offenses that produce. With AD, Jennings, Rudolph and Patterson he has some tools here.

I will be one of the first to tell him to hit the bricks and I understand the pessimism ... but I think right now, there is plenty of reason to think the offense is going to be on the uptick this season.

Now, this is how you disagree with someone civilly. You might disagree with me, but at least you have a well thought-out response. Thanks, Midg.

I actually agree about Cleveland, thought the offensive rank would be much lower. 17th with that offense, Turner should have won an award for that... instead he got fired. Guess that's just Cleveland for ya.

Going back and looking at Turner's 2007 offense probably makes the most sense. They had one of the best RB's in the league and had some legit talent at WR too... similar to what we're looking at this year. Obviously having Philip Rivers would help, but who knows, maybe we struck gold with Bridgewater. I certainly do like the kid's work ethic.

tastywaves
07-14-2014, 02:07 PM
With a first year coach that spent his career on defense, I think it was a good move to bring in a veteran OC whose had success in the NFL. Norv fits the bill well. The fact that he's been a HC should be of help to Zimmer as well.

The fact that Zimmer could get Norv to join his staff is another good sign. If Leslie could have pulled off bringing in legitimate coordinators, I have to believe he would have done it. I think we were stuck with Musgrave and whoever as DC because that's the best he could find that was willing to join his staff.

mountainviking
07-14-2014, 02:15 PM
BANG CARTOONS: Hilarious NFL cartoons and podcasts! (http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/norvaway.htm)

Seriously tho, like most coaches, Norv has had some ups and some downs. But when he's had talent to work with, he has seen success. We have an improving OLine, a HOF RB, a versatile veteran route runner and a superfreak at WR along with 2 decent no.3 guys and a Pro-Bowl MVP at TE. That's a pretty good pile of talent with the one missing thing being a QB, but the whole team was more competitive with Cassel last season and Teddy B might just turn out to be pretty good. Sounds like he's willing to do the work, and that is one major step in the right direction.

I don't see how his offense could possibly be as boring and predictable at Musgrave's...?

VikesFan787
07-14-2014, 03:20 PM
We will win the Super Bowl.

idahovikefan7
07-14-2014, 03:55 PM
And why cut-and-paste that one part of my response? Be a man, respond to everything I said.

There's the cute little C Mac D response I was waiting for! I knew you'd break quick. I'm trying to put it into context though. I'm not quite sure what the definition of the word "man" actually means in your one MAN kingdom yet.

But I realize I fell for the C Mac D trap once again. Your game of trying to piss everyone off because it makes you so happy inside. Must have been the drinks I had that night.

C Mac D
07-14-2014, 04:28 PM
We will win the Super Bowl.

I'm not sure western civilization will be around that long.

singersp
07-15-2014, 06:23 AM
When you people actually try to prove Norv is so great, be sure to look at the team he started with & then go from there. I've done research as well & while he's better than Musgrave, he still isn't great. People will always go back to Dallas & Aikman & point to that. But what about after Dallas? How good was he with the Browns? (Please don't look at just Gordon's yards without looking at the number of targets he got.

Where are all these other QB's he made that have people calling him a QB guru? Schuler? Weeden, Campbell? Before you bring up Rivers, don't forget Rivers & the Chargers were 14-2 the season before Turner ever got there.

If Turner was as good as people think he is, he'd still be in Cleveland or SD or SF or Oakland or Miami or Washington.

vikinggreg
07-15-2014, 08:08 AM
Before you bring up Rivers, don't forget Rivers & the Chargers were 14-2 the season before Turner ever got there.

Did the Chargers win any play off games with Marty or did that happen when Norv came on board

midgensa
07-15-2014, 08:28 AM
When you people actually try to prove Norv is so great, be sure to look at the team he started with & then go from there. I've done research as well & while he's better than Musgrave, he still isn't great. People will always go back to Dallas & Aikman & point to that. But what about after Dallas? How good was he with the Browns? (Please don't look at just Gordon's yards without looking at the number of targets he got.

Where are all these other QB's he made that have people calling him a QB guru? Schuler? Weeden, Campbell? Before you bring up Rivers, don't forget Rivers & the Chargers were 14-2 the season before Turner ever got there.

If Turner was as good as people think he is, he'd still be in Cleveland or SD or SF or Oakland or Miami or Washington.

Oh c'mon. That is total bullshit. Good coaches get fired ALL the time. Hell, they get traded also. ALL THE TIME. Part of the business. Saying that the Redskins or Raiders firing Norv proves that he is not any good is totally ridiculous. The Redskins, Chiefs and Chargers all fired Marty Schottenheimer and he is one of the best coaches of all time. Bill Belichick was fired by the Browns, guess he isn't as good as people think either.

He got let go in Cleveland because they completely cleaned house. There is very little bad you can say about what Turner did with the Browns last season. There is very little you can say bad offensively about his time in Dallas, Washington or San Diego. He struggled in Oakland, Miami and San Francisco. But even then he was never that bad (though the one season in S.F. was pretty awful).

He might not be a good head coach (which is debatable, he is probably an average head coach) and he might not be the greatest OC that ever lived. But his record as an OC and offensive-minded head coach is pretty damn solid.

C Mac D
07-15-2014, 08:37 AM
Did the Chargers win any play off games with Marty or did that happen when Norv came on board

Schotty never won a playoff game in San Diego. Turner took them to the AFC Championship game in 2007, his first year as HC... and never won another playoff game after that.

People hate to hear it for whatever reason, but Turner is not the offensive genius people make him out to be. He knows how to incorporate the TE position into the passing game, but that's not really reinventing the wheel.

C Mac D
07-15-2014, 08:39 AM
He might not be a good head coach (which is debatable, he is probably an average head coach) and he might not be the greatest OC that ever lived. But his record as an OC and offensive-minded head coach is pretty damn solid.

His career record as a HC is 114–122–1. Pretty even, but still a losing record.

Below average HC.

vikinggreg
07-15-2014, 09:19 AM
Schotty never won a playoff game in San Diego. Turner took them to the AFC Championship game in 2007, his first year as HC... and never won another playoff game after that.

People hate to hear it for whatever reason, but Turner is not the offensive genius people make him out to be. He knows how to incorporate the TE position into the passing game, but that's not really reinventing the wheel.

Except the 2008 season when they beat the Colts in a wildcard game 23-17

Not saying he is a genius either but he is an upgrade

tastywaves
07-15-2014, 10:47 AM
Schotty never won a playoff game in San Diego. Turner took them to the AFC Championship game in 2007, his first year as HC... and never won another playoff game after that.

People hate to hear it for whatever reason, but Turner is not the offensive genius people make him out to be. He knows how to incorporate the TE position into the passing game, but that's not really reinventing the wheel.

Who did you want for Vikings OC?

C Mac D
07-15-2014, 12:45 PM
Who did you want for Vikings OC?

Peyton Manning

vikesrgreat2
07-15-2014, 12:52 PM
I'm not sure western civilization will be around that long.

Like your optimism!

vikesrgreat2
07-15-2014, 12:54 PM
Who did you want for Vikings OC?

Mike Zimmer. PERIOD.

C Mac D
07-15-2014, 12:58 PM
Mike Zimmer. PERIOD.

Not head coach... offensive coordinator.

Zimmer was a defensive coordinator in Cincy, so the transition to OC might be tough.

Besides, the "Peyton Manning" thing was a joke. I am fine with Turner as our OC, but I just want people to realize he's not the messiah everyone thinks he is.

kevoncox
07-15-2014, 01:21 PM
When will you guys learn. CD Mac as I like to call him, is the greatest poster in PPO history. He is never wrong, always uses facts and his arguments are bulletproof. He should go down in th eForum Posting Hall of Fame. I mean look at his statement of "He got the TE involved in the passing game, it's not exactly reinventing the wheel".... look how accurate that statement is. It's not like TE for a long time were marginal receivers and relied upon more for blocking than catching. It's also not like there has been a huge upswing in pass catching TEs in the league since Norv's offense has focus on the TE. Reinvented the wheel indeed...pssshhhh

Seriously,
There are so many factors to contend with when you are gauging a coach to sit down and speak about overall records is laughable. The fact remains is that Turner keeps findings job despite being in the league longer than some of us have been alive. I don't care what he did with the chargers because it has no bearing on what he will do with the Vikings. Ditto for the Browns. I find comfort in having a previous HC that can help speed Zimmer's transition to HCing. People assume that being a OC is the same thing as being a HC. Two different jobs. It takes time to learn how to be proficient at being a HC. We basically have an Offensive HC and a Defensive HC. Great situation. Would any of you, CMacD included preferred that we went with some unknown name off the street. Who would you want to be the OC? When asked that he said manning. Which tells me he is bitching for bitching sakes and has 0 idea about what makes a good OC.

C Mac D
07-15-2014, 01:57 PM
C Mac D is the greatest poster in PPO history. He is never wrong, always uses facts and his arguments are bulletproof.

Thanks dude, glad someone gets it.

Sure do miss the Childress/Favre/Jackson era of this forum... tough to have conversations about football and wait 2-5 hours for a response, not to mention everyone's panties getting in a bunch when you question Norv Turner. Buncha softies in here these days.

tastywaves
07-15-2014, 03:50 PM
Thanks dude, glad someone gets it.

Sure do miss the Childress/Favre/Jackson era of this forum... tough to have conversations about football and wait 2-5 hours for a response, not to mention everyone's panties getting in a bunch when you question Norv Turner. Buncha softies in here these days.

Pretty stagnate times. That will all change once we see the QB's in action.

Saw where Jaw's puts our projected QB starter as the 32nd best next year. Guess he doesn't have much faith in the Norv Turner effect either.

kevoncox
07-15-2014, 08:32 PM
When has Jaws ever been right?

tastywaves
07-15-2014, 08:53 PM
When has Jaws ever been right?

Can't remember the last time.

singersp
07-16-2014, 06:35 AM
Did the Chargers win any play off games with Marty or did that happen when Norv came on board

Turner's Chargers only won the divisional playoff once & lost the following week.

singersp
07-16-2014, 06:47 AM
He might not be a good head coach (which is debatable, he is probably an average head coach) and he might not be the greatest OC that ever lived. But his record as an OC and offensive-minded head coach is pretty damn solid.

Since Dallas or more aptly in the last 20 years, Turner's record as an OC is 35-45. He only won more than 7 games in any of those seasons as an OC twice.

Solid? Not at all.

singersp
07-16-2014, 06:51 AM
Not saying he is a genius either but he is an upgrade

That's all I'm saying as well, but people believe Turner is way much better than he actually is.

vikinggreg
07-16-2014, 08:27 AM
Turner's Chargers only won the divisional playoff once & lost the following week.
But that wasn't the question

Again the question was any playoff games not whether they were they wild cards, divisional or conference between Marty and Norv

C Mac D
07-16-2014, 09:05 AM
But that wasn't the question

Again the question was any playoff games not whether they were they wild cards, divisional or conference between Marty and Norv

Childress won a playoff game... doesn't really make him a good coach, now does it?

C Mac D
07-16-2014, 09:06 AM
When has Jaws ever been right?

Agree with you on that, Jaws is hack. Really wish he'd either retire or jump off a bridge.

triedandtruevikesfan
07-16-2014, 11:37 AM
I wasn't thrilled with the signing at all... but its grown on me. I think Zimmer as HC was a great sign and I'm really excited to see what he can do with this team. I love that he is a no BS kinda guy. He will demand respect. Not something we've had from a HC lately.

Our D gets turned around and despite our record last year and what we watched as fans, our offensive ranking wasn't horrible last year. With the QB competition gearing up, healthy players and a fresh eye at the helm... I am optimistic for the start of the season!

vikinggreg
07-16-2014, 09:58 PM
Childress won a playoff game... doesn't really make him a good coach, now does it?
But has Turner only won one playoff game

mountainviking
07-19-2014, 11:47 AM
How will Norv Turner’s system affect Adrian Peterson? | Minnesota Vikings (http://cover32.com/vikings/2014/05/30/how-will-norv-turners-system-affect-adrian-peterson/)


What’s more, halfbacks have done better with Turner than they have without. Despite the fact that Norv often let others handle run scheming duties, his ability as an offensive coordinator to put players in the right spots at the right times has really enabled their play. Measured against years they had at least 250 touches, running backs often had their greatest seasons in yards per touch with Turner than without:

RB Yards/Touch w/ Norv w/o Norv

Frank Gore 5.8 5.4
LaDainian Tomlinson 5.7 5.8
Ryan Mathews 5.7 4.6
Emmitt Smith 5.6 4.9
Ricky Williams 5.2 5
Terry Allen 5.0 5.3


Pretty good read. Like most coaches, Norv has had good and bad years, but even his critics will admit that when he has had talent in place he has seen success.

We have an up and coming OL where Kalil could be much better and Yankey might improve LG. We still have a HOF RB, a probowl MVP TE, a stable of WRs including a versatile route runner, a super-freak with unlimited potential and a couple of good no.3 slot/speed options. Even mediocre QB play would be an improvement and I think Cassel and eventually Bridgewater can provide that if not more.

Minniman
07-19-2014, 12:21 PM
There is a lot of game film on Mr. Turner.

I anticipate his aspiration to adapt and adjust with an ardent advanced attack, and I will be ecstatic when Norv is given applause, acclaim, and accolades for his ensuing accomplishments.

MaxVike
07-20-2014, 06:33 PM
Years of complaining about Musgrave...mostly justifiable, I was there too. He's gone, we have a new OC, Norv, he has yet to call a game for the Vikes, and more bitching. Who did you want people?

midgensa
07-20-2014, 09:12 PM
Since Dallas or more aptly in the last 20 years, Turner's record as an OC is 35-45. He only won more than 7 games in any of those seasons as an OC twice.

Solid? Not at all.

You chose to ignore the "offensive-minded head coach" part and throw out his San Diego years. Pretty easy to make things fit your argument when you throw out the good seasons and only keep the bad. But, then again, that is pretty common from a handful of posters around these parts ... been seeing you do it for years.

Tends to mostly be the reason I discuss with folks like Tasty and C Mac and others and ignore your regular garbage. Have fun responding with more garbage.

BTW ... that is ONLY FIVE seasons as an offensive Coorinator. Arguing he only won more than 7 games TWICE is not that bad. Some of those teams were absolutely dreadful, including the Browns team from last season and the 2001 Chargers coming off of a one win season (he did help improve them to five wins BTW which was considered pretty fucking impressive at the time, if you can remember that long ago).

To put it even better ... in his six OC jobs he has taken, the team has won more games the year he joined four out of six times (last year's Browns and the 2002 Dolphins did not).

midgensa
07-20-2014, 09:18 PM
But that wasn't the question

Again the question was any playoff games not whether they were they wild cards, divisional or conference between Marty and Norv

Singer does not like responding to whatever is asked ... he likes to respond in ways that he thinks proves whatever random-ass point he is trying to make.

Norv Turner has won four playoff games in his career as a head coach ... three in San Diego. But, since we are also discussing his time as an OC ... he also won seven playoff games and two Super Bowls as an OC. Those don't count though because that hurts Singer's argument that Norv is not any good.

purplehelmut
07-21-2014, 08:53 AM
I'd be happy if Norv just made me forget Musgrave. It was nearly intolerable to watch those offenses.

jargomcfargo
07-21-2014, 11:31 AM
Years of complaining about Musgrave...mostly justifiable, I was there too. He's gone, we have a new OC, Norv, he has yet to call a game for the Vikes, and more bitching. Who did you want people?
I wanted someone with experience and a track record of success.
Those types of coaches have been hard to attract to Minnesota.
The degree of success can be debated but not denied. I think Norv fits exactly what I was looking for. I expect instant improvement and a much better future for this team. It would be difficult to get worse !

drewlovs
07-21-2014, 12:37 PM
Do some here think you get a prize if you call out your team before the season begins? Or is being right about the team sucking next year more important than being optimistic for your team right now?

I knew there would be some that would be critical of Turner, because there is ALWAYS people who feel the need to prepare themselves for the "eventual" crash. No matter how good the team is, it will not last forever; I lived in the Bay Area during the Montana/Young era, and there were fans there that would constantly rip apart THAT team(s). You KNEW you were going to hear them on KNBR the next day if Dallas beat them in the playoffs, with a gleeful, "I told you so!! I was right, right, right!! YAY me!!!" as if that is the most important conclusion you could draw from a painful loss.

My point is, even winning will not remove their negativity (they call it being realistic) and their need to be the first to see "the other side of the coin" (aka finding some minor fault and blowing it out of proportion so they can brag later they saw it coming).

I name no one here in particular; if you take offense, then this is how YOU see yourself, I did not put that on you.

I personally like being optimistic, because if I'm right, WOO HOOO!!!! But if I'm wrong, will anyone blame me for wanting our team to win it all? If you actually rip me apart for hoping and thinking our team goes 10-6 or better, you are at the wrong fan website.

purplehelmut
07-21-2014, 12:58 PM
If the Vikings had won one of the four Super Bowls, or closed the deal in '98 or '09, I would feel much better and probably not be pessimistic at all. If I were a Steeler fan (or fan of any team who has at least one championship) I would never bitch and moan about a bad season. I'd think, well at least we've got the five (or one) to fall back on. Hell, I'd settle for ONE! After 45 years and getting up to age 54, I'm starting to worry I may never see the Vikings win a Super Bowl. But I'm front and center every year- I've had Sunday ticket for as long as it's been around and watch them every week. Right now I'm just hoping for enough longevity to witness it.

C Mac D
07-21-2014, 01:22 PM
So far, the 'pessimists' have been correct 100% of the time... so there's that.

tastywaves
07-21-2014, 07:52 PM
Appreciate the optimism, understand the pessimism. It's well earned.

Anxious to see this team operate, until then just sitting back and waiting to see something before I get too wound up one way or the other.

Pre-season is always nice to set false expectations as well. But, you've got to work with what you got.

MaxVike
07-21-2014, 08:45 PM
If the Vikings had won one of the four Super Bowls, or closed the deal in '98 or '09, I would feel much better and probably not be pessimistic at all. If I were a Steeler fan (or fan of any team who has at least one championship) I would never bitch and moan about a bad season. I'd think, well at least we've got the five (or one) to fall back on. Hell, I'd settle for ONE! After 45 years and getting up to age 54, I'm starting to worry I may never see the Vikings win a Super Bowl. But I'm front and center every year- I've had Sunday ticket for as long as it's been around and watch them every week. Right now I'm just hoping for enough longevity to witness it.

me too helmut… I'm 52 and share your view(s). that said, I'm not pessimistic, rather, cautiously optimistic.

QB remains the biggest gap, and we share that gap with most teams.

I'm optimistic about our DL upside and realize it may take awhile for them to gel. Similarly, I'm very optimistic about the WR position…I think we have two guys that will break out this year in Wright and Patterson. Rudolph needs to stay on the field, however, I maintain my initial post Draft assessment that I think he can be the best all time Vike TE. I'm cautious about LB and DB, although, I think Rhodes will eventually be a stud, and Harrison is close. The Captain…well, we shall see, but, his approach and leadership is impressive. OL needs better guards play…Kalil needs to progress big time.

I think it's absurd to complain about Turner at this stage, in fact, complaints about him are, in effect, complaints about Zimmer IMHO. Let's let it play out a bit…

SKOL Vikings!!!

MaxVike
07-21-2014, 08:52 PM
I wanted someone with experience and a track record of success.
Those types of coaches have been hard to attract to Minnesota.
The degree of success can be debated but not denied. I think Norv fits exactly what I was looking for. I expect instant improvement and a much better future for this team. It would be difficult to get worse !

Thanks Smegma…you have stated it much better than me. Agreed

PackSux!
07-21-2014, 09:07 PM
Thanks Smegma…you have stated it much better than me. Agreed

Owned!

purplehelmut
07-22-2014, 12:15 PM
I'm looking forward to this season much more than the last few. '09 was exciting because of Favre but it was also a heart render. I do see some things that I like, but QB must get better and the defense has to move up to at least the middle of the pile. Offense was 14th last year with subpar QB play, but it could not overcome a truly woeful defense, one of the worst I remember.

mountainviking
07-23-2014, 11:19 AM
From 1991-2006, Turner held six different jobs and in each of those jobs, the team he took over for improved an average of 10.5 spots in its total offensive ranking in Turner's first year. Not only that, but Turner orchestrated these offensive turnarounds despite having quarterbacks like Heath Shuler, John Friesz, Jay Fiedler and Kerry Collins.

2014 NFL Training Camp Battles: Who will be the Vikings starting QB? - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24632203/nfl-training-camp-battles-who-will-be-the-vikings-starting-qb)

Marrdro
07-24-2014, 12:36 PM
When will you guys learn. CD Mac as I like to call him, is the greatest poster in PPO history. He is never wrong, always uses facts and his arguments are bulletproof. He should go down in th eForum Posting Hall of Fame. I mean look at his statement of "He got the TE involved in the passing game, it's not exactly reinventing the wheel".... look how accurate that statement is. It's not like TE for a long time were marginal receivers and relied upon more for blocking than catching. It's also not like there has been a huge upswing in pass catching TEs in the league since Norv's offense has focus on the TE. Reinvented the wheel indeed...pssshhhh

Seriously,
There are so many factors to contend with when you are gauging a coach to sit down and speak about overall records is laughable. The fact remains is that Turner keeps findings job despite being in the league longer than some of us have been alive. I don't care what he did with the chargers because it has no bearing on what he will do with the Vikings. Ditto for the Browns. I find comfort in having a previous HC that can help speed Zimmer's transition to HCing. People assume that being a OC is the same thing as being a HC. Two different jobs. It takes time to learn how to be proficient at being a HC. We basically have an Offensive HC and a Defensive HC. Great situation. Would any of you, CMacD included preferred that we went with some unknown name off the street. Who would you want to be the OC? When asked that he said manning. Which tells me he is bitching for bitching sakes and has 0 idea about what makes a good OC.

You could always crack me up. :)