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2beersTommy
01-22-2014, 12:56 PM
Norv Turner, the Chinese Room and Israeli Prisons


Norv Turner, the Chinese Room and Israeli Prisons - Daily Norseman (http://www.dailynorseman.com/2014/1/22/5331384/norv-turner-the-chinese-room-and-israeli-prisons-minnesota-vikings-offensive-coordinator)


not sure wtf the Chinese room & Israeli prisons have to do with this, but a great fucking read on what Turner will bring to the Vikes. If it is anything like "Air Coryell" were going to put some points on the board this season. And by the sounds of it, Johnny fucking football will not be a great fit into the offense, but Derrick Carr @ pick 40 will. I wouldn't be surprised to go with CJ Mosley with our first pick.

VikesfaninWis
01-22-2014, 01:34 PM
Ok first off, if you don't have the day off or at the very least an hour lunch and don't want to eat, save this article for later. Poor writer on this one probably ended up with Carpal Tunnel.

This was a very good read, and had some very good points. I am excited to see what this offense can do under Turner, and I hope we get the right QB in here whoever that may be. Good times.

2beersTommy
01-22-2014, 02:06 PM
Ok first off, if you don't have the day off or at the very least an hour lunch and don't want to eat, save this article for later. Poor writer on this one probably ended up with Carpal Tunnel.

This was a very good read, and had some very good points. I am excited to see what this offense can do under Turner, and I hope we get the right QB in here whoever that may be. Good times.

No kidding, quite lengthy read..

Minniman
01-22-2014, 05:17 PM
There is not much new there for football historians, but it is a good read.

I do not think he gives Sid Gillman enough credit, and says nothing of innovations from Jerry Burns, but overall, it is well thought out.

2beersTommy
01-22-2014, 05:50 PM
After the year McCown had, it did mention that he would be a good fit for what style offense Norv is bringing in..worth a shot at getting him? would he sign knowing he'd be a starter for a short, or some time?? something to think about imo. I do think the article gave us some idea of what type players we need to fill specific spots. Pass catching FB, I immediately think of Zach Line, we have the TE desired, the WR (Patterson) will need to work on route running, but all in all, we are not far away of the pieces needed for this offense.

Minniman
01-22-2014, 06:06 PM
... but all in all, we are not far away of the pieces needed for this offense.
More so than a Walsh style WCO.

Peterson is not a WCO back, and his blocking will need to improve in this offense.

singersp
01-31-2014, 10:19 AM
At the end of the day Norv Turner hasn't done much in the past 20 years as an OC, the position we hired him for.

Outside of benefiting from the likes of Troy Aikman, Emmett Smith & Michael Irving plus the vast amount of players & draft picks the Vikings gave him via the Herschel Walker trade, what makes people think he was so good? After all, Musgrave took what was the 29th ranked point scoring offense & got us up to 14th. That wasn't good enough for me or most fans, yet many Vikings fans are ecstatic about the Turner signing.

Here's a peek at his accomplishments as OC in the last 20 years since leaving the Cowboys;

In 2001 as OC for the Chargers, he inherited their 17th ranked offensive in points & eroded it to 21st. That's a decline, not an improvement.

In 2002-2003 in Miami, he took inherited an offense that was ranked 8th in points & then dropped them to 12th in his 1st year there & 17th in his last (2nd) year there. Again, a decline, not an improvement.

In 2006 he took over as OC for the 49ers who ranked 30th when he started and he took them to a 24th ranking. Yup an improvement there. I don't know about you, but 24th isn't anything to get all excited about, in fact it's bad.

In 2013 with the Browns, he took a bad 24th ranked offense & made them even worse with a 27th ranking.

NodakPaul
01-31-2014, 11:00 AM
At the end of the day Norv Turner hasn't done much in the past 20 years as an OC, the position we hired him for.

Outside of benefiting from the likes of Troy Aikman, Emmett Smith & Michael Irving plus the vast amount of players & draft picks the Vikings gave him via the Herschel Walker trade, what makes people think he was so good? After all, Musgrave took what was the 29th ranked point scoring offense & got us up to 14th. That wasn't good enough for me or most fans, yet many Vikings fans are ecstatic about the Turner signing.

Here's a peek at his accomplishments as OC in the last 20 years since leaving the Cowboys;

In 2001 as OC for the Chargers, he inherited their 17th ranked offensive in points & eroded it to 21st. That's a decline, not an improvement.

In 2002-2003 in Miami, he took inherited an offense that was ranked 8th in points & then dropped them to 12th in his 1st year there & 17th in his last (2nd) year there. Again, a decline, not an improvement.

In 2006 he took over as OC for the 49ers who ranked 30th when he started and he took them to a 24th ranking. Yup an improvement there. I don't know about you, but 24th isn't anything to get all excited about, in fact it's bad.

In 2013 with the Browns, he took a bad 24th ranked offense & made them even worse with a 27th ranking.

Picking and choosing stats don't always tell the whole story. For instance...

In 2000, the San Diego chargers were 28th in total yardage, and 32nd in TO ratio with -28. The 2000 Chargers also finished 1-15. After Turner came in they moved up to 11th in total yardage and 13th in TO ratio with +2. They finished with a record of 5-11. Yes, there total points went down, but there was no question that the 2001 Chargers offense was considerably better than the year before.

I am excited to see what Turner can do in Minnesota. If for no other reason than he will likely have a new QB to work with, something that most people in NFL circles feel he is very well suited for.

singersp
01-31-2014, 03:57 PM
Picking and choosing stats don't always tell the whole story. For instance...

In 2000, the San Diego chargers were 28th in total yardage, and 32nd in TO ratio with -28. The 2000 Chargers also finished 1-15. After Turner came in they moved up to 11th in total yardage and 13th in TO ratio with +2. They finished with a record of 5-11. Yes, there total points went down, but there was no question that the 2001 Chargers offense was considerably better than the year before.

I am excited to see what Turner can do in Minnesota. If for no other reason than he will likely have a new QB to work with, something that most people in NFL circles feel he is very well suited for.

Yardage doesn't win ball games, scoring does. 5-11 is good now?

Using your yardage angle, in 2011 when Musgrave came in, the Vikings were 23th in total yardage. In 2013 when he left the Vikings were 13th. The points also went up from 29th to 14th. Isn't that considerable improvement?

Just saying....

vikinggreg
01-31-2014, 11:53 PM
Yardage doesn't win ball games, scoring does. 5-11 is good now?

Using your yardage angle, in 2011 when Musgrave came in, the Vikings were 23th in total yardage. In 2013 when he left the Vikings were 13th. The points also went up from 29th to 14th. Isn't that considerable improvement?

Just saying....

Yeah that's why the Broncos are facing Bears in the super bowl, no wait its the Eagles, oops no its the Cowboys or Packers...oh yeah Seahawks

Minniman
02-01-2014, 07:58 AM
At the end of the day Norv Turner hasn't done much in the past 20 years as an OC, the position we hired him for.

Outside of benefiting from the likes of Troy Aikman, Emmett Smith & Michael Irving plus the vast amount of players & draft picks the Vikings gave him via the Herschel Walker trade, what makes people think he was so good? After all, Musgrave took what was the 29th ranked point scoring offense & got us up to 14th. That wasn't good enough for me or most fans, yet many Vikings fans are ecstatic about the Turner signing.

Here's a peek at his accomplishments as OC in the last 20 years since leaving the Cowboys;

In 2001 as OC for the Chargers, he inherited their 17th ranked offensive in points & eroded it to 21st. That's a decline, not an improvement.

In 2002-2003 in Miami, he took inherited an offense that was ranked 8th in points & then dropped them to 12th in his 1st year there & 17th in his last (2nd) year there. Again, a decline, not an improvement.

In 2006 he took over as OC for the 49ers who ranked 30th when he started and he took them to a 24th ranking. Yup an improvement there. I don't know about you, but 24th isn't anything to get all excited about, in fact it's bad.

In 2013 with the Browns, he took a bad 24th ranked offense & made them even worse with a 27th ranking.
Moving up or down a few slots are likely within the range of margin of error. A little bit better, or a little bit worse have no statistical relevance. Basically, Norv Turner did very little for these teams either well or poor.

Great players move the rankings beyond the margin of error. Great coaches move the statistics
beyond the margin of error. The combination, or synergy, of great players and coaches move the up much beyond what either could do alone.

On a side note, no other one player has the ability to affect an offense like the quarterback. A great quarterback is the only player that is worth paying a heavy cap contract - not a running back, and not a defensive end. The Vikings went all in on Peterson and Allen, but they went cheap on the quarterback position. That is why the Vikings lose.

b_sandhar_29
02-01-2014, 08:04 AM
Is it possible that our offensive numbers were a bit skewed because we played down in games? Many of our games came down to the wire and our defense was horrible last year. Love to hear your thoughts.

tastywaves
02-01-2014, 08:14 AM
Yes. Points and yardage aren't worth much if your losing games. Both sides of the ball were uninspiring last year.

digital420
02-01-2014, 09:06 AM
a few things i'm looking for in a new O..

get a QB who can do the play action
Attack the 8 -9 man fronts and make them pay for loading the box.
Get a playcard larger then a business card..
Utilize the greatest RB in the NFL.
scheme up our Wr's/TE's put them in positions to make plays
if Norv can do these i'll be happy.. if not.. we're doomed to follow the kittens and rebuild this decade away.

DiGiTaL

vikinggreg
02-01-2014, 09:57 AM
In 2013 with the Browns, he took a bad 24th ranked offense & made them even worse with a 27th ranking.

I think it might have been Mike Lombardi that trade away the teams leading scorer and rusher driving the Browns rushing offence from 13th in the league to 32nd with the week 3 trade of Trent Richardson in return for nothing in 2013 to help the team. The Turners did manage to move the passing side of the offense to 11th in yards and scoring from 19th yards and 28th in scoring the season before.

tastywaves
02-02-2014, 09:04 AM
You can't dismiss the effectiveness of the Chargers offense from 2007-2011 when Turner was HC. They were top 5 in offense each of those years.

iowa
02-02-2014, 01:41 PM
if the vikes can find a qb i think we have the rest of the pieces in place for norv to be successful. his problems in Cleveland were lack of a decent qb, no running game and only one good wr. with patterson, jennings, wright, rudolph and a.d., we've got some weapons.

AngloVike
02-02-2014, 03:24 PM
Let me think, Norv or the same old same old that we had with Musgrave.. yep I'll take a chance on Turner even with some of the stats being raised about his recent years.

thorshammer
02-02-2014, 03:45 PM
I am thinking Norv is a hell of an upgrade over what we've seen around here for quite some time. I for one am looking forward to it.

PackSux!
02-02-2014, 04:53 PM
No more KAO!

jargomcfargo
02-02-2014, 05:13 PM
I am thinking Norv is a hell of an upgrade over what we've seen around here for quite some time. I for one am looking forward to it.
Amen brother. Even with Cassel as the starter I expect to have a shot at the playoffs, providing Spielman can acquire the 4 or 5 upgrades needed on defense. CB,CB,DT,MLB,S, and resign Griffen or Allen at a discount.
Ultimately, to go anywhere in the playoffs, they will need to upgrade at QB. I think it will happen this year.

Minniman
02-02-2014, 07:18 PM
I am thinking Norv is a hell of an upgrade over what we've seen around here for quite some time. I for one am looking forward to it.
I agree.

An offense that attacks defensive weaknesses would be nice.

vikinggreg
02-02-2014, 08:42 PM
Yardage doesn't win ball games, scoring does. 5-11 is good now?

Using your yardage angle, in 2011 when Musgrave came in, the Vikings were 23th in total yardage. In 2013 when he left the Vikings were 13th. The points also went up from 29th to 14th. Isn't that considerable improvement?

Just saying....

Denver's record setting high scoring offense would have agreed with you if they didn't get spanked in the Super Bowl

bleedpurple
02-03-2014, 09:48 AM
We will also benefit from Norv's playcalling... and I think the offense will be more exciting to watch... Musgrave?? please... that hurt my eyes to see him call boneheaded play after boneheaded play...