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EricTheViking
11-24-2013, 05:12 PM
Okay I'll start it. Since no one did last week.

RK.
11-24-2013, 05:15 PM
Well the good news is we didn't lose.
The bad news is we blew a 16 pt lead in the 4th quarter.

The good news is we kept the packers from being in a tie for first place in the North.

The bad news is it doesn't matter to us what the rest of the North is doing.

Why did we throw a screen the last play of over time instead of heaving it down the field and maybe hoping for a pass interference giving us a chance to win? I just don't get the play calling.

The interesting thing this week is no one in the NFC north won this weekend.

RK.
11-24-2013, 05:17 PM
Oh and BTW Toby had a great game so I don't want the hear any crap about how he sucks.

thorshammer
11-24-2013, 05:22 PM
I thought we played a pretty good game. Refs gave them a touchdown with that long pass interference call that should have been offensive pass interference against the Packers. Also that bull#$#t holding call when we stopped them on third a nine. I am just glad we didn't cave completely. AP and Toby ran well. O line showed up. D played more aggressive. Receivers gave it hell. Even Ponder gave a decent showing until disappearing towards the end. No win but I still love the Vikings.

PInfante97
11-24-2013, 05:23 PM
we still suck. we even suck at losing for draft position

EricTheViking
11-24-2013, 05:24 PM
AP had a good game. Gerhart also, surprisingly, had a great game as well. Even Ponder started 15 of 18 for 181 yards. But then, at critical moments in the game the whole team, collectively, blew a 16 point lead. Missed open receivers (Ponder to Patterson), dropped passes (Patterson, Jennings), and a late game defense that decided to go soft. Top that off with the typical bad play calling. I'm stating the obvious here. Every one of you saw it too. It was a heartbreaking tie, only slightly less worse than a loss. I made the mistake, like usual, of actually thinking we we're going to win.

The way the momentum was going I think it was an absolute miracle we didn't lose in the OT.

marshallvike
11-24-2013, 05:25 PM
Oh and BTW Toby had a great game so I don't want the hear any crap about how he sucks.

He did. I know Adrian is the best in the league, but why was Toby scrapped when he was getting 10 yds every time he touched the ball in OT. Why pull the hot hand?

Minniman
11-24-2013, 06:04 PM
It was a heartbreaking tie, only slightly less worse than a loss.
A tie is not a win for bragging rights, and it is not a loss for better draft picks.

A tie was the worst scenario.

EricTheViking
11-24-2013, 07:09 PM
A tie is not a win for bragging rights, and it is not a loss for better draft picks.

A tie was the worst scenario.

I suppose. But when it comes to the packers I'll take the tie over a loss. I know this is purely an emotional response (as well as a thought experiment as the outcome has been decided) but I hate the packers. And thus the tie is only slightly less bitter, to me, than losing.

ConnecticutViking
11-24-2013, 08:12 PM
Vikings lose 26-26

marstc09
11-24-2013, 11:55 PM
At least Green Bay knows how to pull a QB. I bet they stick with it too. This staff is just plain stupid.

singersp
11-25-2013, 08:52 AM
Audie Cole had a good game.

Vikings' Audie Cole makes most of first NFL start at middle linebacker - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_24593053/vikings-audie-cole-makes-most-first-nfl-start)

purplehelmut
11-25-2013, 09:27 AM
After being up 16 in the fourth and ending with a tie, it still feels like a loss. Another blown 4th quarter lead. This coaching staff simply doesn't know how to win a game. Definitely a winnable game against a depleted GB. However, I did some some bright spots that bode well for next season, assuming we get a competent caoching staff and a qb who can play in place.

AngloVike
11-25-2013, 10:38 AM
Why did we throw a screen the last play of over time instead of heaving it down the field and maybe hoping for a pass interference giving us a chance to win? I just don't get the play calling.


thats easy, Ponder wouldn't have got it anywhere near the endzone - tried that a couple of weeks ago and was 10 yds at least short. Trying that yesterday would have given him a hernia (so actually why didn't we try? )

yes your right Toby had a great game and showed what he could do so no complaints from me. In addition Audie Cole played a blinder as well and makes you wonder why we released him originally.

Play calling was still poor in my opinion, opening drive Peterson has an 11 yd run, so Musgrave goes straight to the pass for the next three plays and we have to punt ( after 2 sacks on Ponder ). Way to go Musgrave and give the impetus back to the Packers. As soon as we were into OT it felt like Musgrave and Frazier were playing for the tie with the conservative chicken shit plays that were sent in on both sides of the ball. Sooner these two are gone the better IMO.

Patterson showed a bit more of what he can offer, would have been good if he'd made that sideline catch in the 4th quarter when Ponder had his one good pass for the game. Simpson made a couple of catches that were made harder than they should have been due to a ball with no zip on it at all. OL had some good blocks and opening holes for the backs but were average at best - same for the DL who had mixed results.

Rhodes made some very good plays which helped make me forget about some of the other atrocious plays from other backs - if nothing else it showed our depth is piss poor and needs addressing in the off season

In all a day when the Pack were in a position to be beaten and yet we let them off the hook. Hopefully next time we play them we will have a coaching staff that are looking to win and coach the players accordingly.

i_bleed_purple
11-25-2013, 10:53 AM
We finally had a game with some promise!

I'll put it this way, we've lost to worse teams on the road before.

Coaching still plays not to lose. As long as fraizer is here, we'll never become competitive.

Having said that, by position

QB: C+ On paper it looks like Ponder had an alright game. But watchinghim, he didn't. Still too quick to run. Take a sack when we're needing to drive downfield? Still stares down receivers, and Green Bay dropped two pretty routine interceptions. He's just simply not the anser.

RB: A Great job by both of them. AP grindingit out, Toby with the big runs (That just sounds weird). AP ran harder, as something like 90+ of his yards came after contact, while over70 of Toby's yards came before contact. If we could get holes like that for AP he'd be unstoppable.

OL: B Streaky. Some good moments and some not good moments. I truly now think Ponder Magnifies thetroubles the Line pass pass protecting. I don't think they're quite as bad as he makes them look

WR: B Some good moments, some bad. Drop by Patterson down the sideline was tough, but Simpson went up and made some big grabs. Wright had a drop too. The Patterson drop in the endzone was tipped (Almost picked).

DL: C+ Not lots of pressure. Tolzien/Flynn was able to get away most of the time

LB: B+ Great first game for Toby. Everyone else was unremarkable. Missed tackles, but also a few really good plays that stood out

DB: C+ If we could get this play from Rhodes consistently, we're golden. Everybody else needs to step it up.

K/P: B. No complaints about Walsh. Locke is bothering me. He's just not good. His punts aren't that long, and seems incapable of pinning a guy close to the goal line. It's always at the 20,or 19. Id like to see better.

C Mac D
11-25-2013, 11:18 AM
LB: B+ Great first game for Toby. Everyone else was unremarkable. Missed tackles, but also a few really good plays that stood out

Toby? You mean Audie?

Suick
11-25-2013, 11:45 AM
I thought the officiating was horrible from both sides but it really hurt us much more. The pass interference call and holding were complete jokes.

What was up with punting it from near midfield with 9 seconds left in regulation. WTF????????????

I like Simpson, the the drops by other WR's killed us late.

Randy Moss
11-25-2013, 12:09 PM
Hard to even blame the coaching staff for this one (on the offensive side of the ball at least). We weren't conservative. We played to win, but our receivers decided that they were tired of catching the ball after three quarters. Those three drops were what really killed us offensively at the end. All three were easy catches. If any one of them had been caught we probably win the game.

mountainviking
11-25-2013, 12:27 PM
LOL! A freaking Tie!?!?? HaHa!! Really tho, I love it, it removes all the silly tie-breaker stuff from where we pick in the draft, doesn't move our pick, and yet does not give the Pack a win on their turf!

As for Ponder, like one of my Roommates said, he played a 3rd string QB to a tie, that pretty much tells us he's equal to a 3rd string QB, eh!? ;)

Seriously tho, yeah, he makes some nice throws once in a while, and did have at least 3 very catchable passes dropped yesterday, but, he still stares down his first option and looks to run too quick when that guy his stare is drawing the defense towards isn't open. We pretty much have to spend one of our first two picks on a QB. We can keep the Ponder and/or Freeman or Cassell, but we need to focus on adding somebody with more potential to the roster. IF more than one of them ends up being good, awesome! A good backup is nice to have, just ask the Pack.

drewlovs
11-25-2013, 12:32 PM
For me, its a glaring example of why we need new coaches.

The Packers were getting spanked and made adjustments. They started coming back.

We made no positive adjustments and almost lost. This has been the story all year, except the other team usually seals the deal.

tastywaves
11-25-2013, 12:38 PM
Squandering a 16 point lead in the fourth to a recently signed QB pretty much sums up the 2013 season.

Rhodes played his best game, Audie plays like a MLB. DL had one of their better games. Lacy made us look like clowns trying to bring him down. Greenway really seems to be struggling. Big drops cost us by Patterson, Wright and Jennings. Simpson made a couple nice catches to help prolong drvies. Ponder played a decent game...here's an interesting stat for him:

- Christian Ponder had a QB Rating of 135.8 when blitzed, but just 69.9 when not.

I would welcome a new coaching staff.....providing they bring in real talent...so we don't keep repeating this cycle. I continue to be convinced that talent between NFL rosters is fairly close and what differentiates good teams from bad is primarily coaching. Other than a few stray years hear and there.

drewlovs
11-25-2013, 12:42 PM
My brother-in-law and I can't figure out why opposing defenses rush Ponder. He makes his best plays and decisions on the move, and looks like a rookie when he stays in the pocket to make high percentage passes.

If I were playing against Ponder, I would rush 3, have wandering LBs, and let him give us the ball.

i_bleed_purple
11-25-2013, 01:03 PM
Squandering a 16 point lead in the fourth to a recently signed QB pretty much sums up the 2013 season.

Rhodes played his best game, Audie plays like a MLB. DL had one of their better games. Lacy made us look like clowns trying to bring him down. Greenway really seems to be struggling. Big drops cost us by Patterson, Wright and Jennings. Simpson made a couple nice catches to help prolong drvies. Ponder played a decent game...here's an interesting stat for him:

- Christian Ponder had a QB Rating of 135.8 when blitzed, but just 69.9 when not.

Too bad QBR doesn't take into account sacks or runs

tastywaves
11-25-2013, 02:06 PM
Too bad QBR doesn't take into account sacks or runs

Or, dropped passes.

If they did then they would then turn into a subjective stat, similar to the Total QBR which does attempt to account for contribution vs just end result. I applaud this effort, but the formula is not publicized and some of their numbers are pretty suspect. Which is usually the case when subjectivity comes into play by an analyst unfamiliar with what the roles and responsibilities for any given team/play.

The regular QBR is as close as we can get to a non-subjective stat that gives a pretty decent feel for QB play. In the end, the end result is all that matters. Style points are for gymnastics and diving.

i_bleed_purple
11-25-2013, 03:26 PM
Or, dropped passes.

If they did then they would then turn into a subjective stat, similar to the Total QBR which does attempt to account for contribution vs just end result. I applaud this effort, but the formula is not publicized and some of their numbers are pretty suspect. Which is usually the case when subjectivity comes into play by an analyst unfamiliar with what the roles and responsibilities for any given team/play.

The regular QBR is as close as we can get to a non-subjective stat that gives a pretty decent feel for QB play. In the end, the end result is all that matters. Style points are for gymnastics and diving.

Truthfully, there's no good way to guage the effectiveness of QBs except for the eyeball test.

QBR doesn't account for drops, pocket awareness, missed receivers, fumbles, bad blocking, bad reads, etc. Only way is an unbiased play by play evaluation on whether a play was executed correctly by the QB.

tastywaves
11-26-2013, 11:32 AM
Truthfully, there's no good way to guage the effectiveness of QBs except for the eyeball test.

QBR doesn't account for drops, pocket awareness, missed receivers, fumbles, bad blocking, bad reads, etc. Only way is an unbiased play by play evaluation on whether a play was executed correctly by the QB.

Your pretty much describing ESPN's Total QBR system. Which is subjective, but it attempts to do exactly what your are asking.

I tried to get onboard with it, but in the end with all the variables involved in any given play I think the best non-biased indicator that can/should be used is the regular QBR. There will always be some qualification to it, but I think it is one of the better stats in the game that focuses on end results.

Your always welcome to use your own personal eyeball test, but I would argue that fans of a team generally have the most biased eye (good and bad). Too much emotion involved and too much pre-conceived opinions. Or, too much fanaticism.

So, don't be offended if I tell you that yours and my opinions about Vikings players are probably the least reliable. PF on the other hand is always dead nuts on, so I might need to question his fanhood.

Suick
11-26-2013, 12:39 PM
Lacy made us look like clowns trying to bring him down.

How true. Tackling was horrific as it has been all year.

Suick
11-26-2013, 12:41 PM
I did like Brian Robison sack dance.

Set the hook!!!!!

Caine
11-26-2013, 05:30 PM
Loved AP and Toby blasting the Packers for big yards.

Loved Audie Cole's first game. Keep it up!!!

Loved the play of Rhodes. Was Cook paying attention?

Typical day for Ponder...make just enough plays to give us hope, then fold when the pressure is on.

Love the fact that our big name Big $$$ FA WR is riding the bench....always. Glad we signed him. (sarcasm off)

Can't wait for Frazier, Williams, and Musgrave to put their houses up for sale....

Can't wait for the Wilfs to put the team up for sale....

How in the floop do you blow a 14 point lead against the PACKTARDS!?!?!?!?!?! How do you do that, then look your fans in the eye and say, "We've put a quality product on the field".

The Wilfs and the Vikings owe all of us a HUGE apology...




...I'll settle for them selling the franchise.

Caine

PackSux!
11-26-2013, 08:08 PM
Loved AP and Toby blasting the Packers for big yards.

Loved Audie Cole's first game. Keep it up!!!

Loved the play of Rhodes. Was Cook paying attention?

Typical day for Ponder...make just enough plays to give us hope, then fold when the pressure is on.

Love the fact that our big name Big $$$ FA WR is riding the bench....always. Glad we signed him. (sarcasm off)

Can't wait for Frazier, Williams, and Musgrave to put their houses up for sale....

Can't wait for the Wilfs to put the team up for sale....

How in the floop do you blow a 14 point lead against the PACKTARDS!?!?!?!?!?! How do you do that, then look your fans in the eye and say, "We've put a quality product on the field".

The Wilfs and the Vikings owe all of us a HUGE apology...




...I'll settle for them selling the franchise.

Caine

Muskrat thinks that passing the football instead of running the ball takes more time off the clock? Giving the other team free timeouts with stupid sneaky plays and incomplete passes by a retard quarterback is not going to cut it.

Take away all the last minute losses this season and we stand alone in our division and are playoff bound. Prevent defense seems to prevent us a victory. Free timeouts for the defense when trying to RUN out the clock will kill you on offense.

Yep, GM and coaches must go! And Cole better be our starting middle linebacker the rest of the season for fuck sake.