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johnkdbr
11-18-2013, 09:58 PM
If Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota or Johnny Manziel are off the board when the Vikes make their first pick then we need to wait on a QB in the later rounds. DE, CB, LB & DT are all needed in a major way. Plus Jay Cutler will be a FA. Cutler, AP, K. Rudolph, C Patterson & Greg Jennings. Fire both OC & DC, Fix defense in draft & FA & boom...Superbowl!

MaxVike
11-19-2013, 08:06 AM
All will be on the board when Vikes pick #1

i_bleed_purple
11-19-2013, 08:18 AM
If Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota or Johnny Manziel are off the board when the Vikes make their first pick then we need to wait on a QB in the later rounds. DE, CB, LB & DT are all needed in a major way. Plus Jay Cutler will be a FA. Cutler, AP, K. Rudolph, C Patterson & Greg Jennings. Fire both OC & DC, Fix defense in draft & FA & boom...Superbowl!

Id agree. We dont need to take the sixth rated qb in the toop 15 again. If the top prospects are gone, I'd be a fan of attempting to trade down. Secure another second.

Purple Floyd
11-19-2013, 08:59 AM
What makes you think any of those other QB's are any less likely to bust than the three you named? To me every QB you named has a high bust probability and I actually think there are less flashy but potentially safer picks down the line like petty, Mettenberger and a few others that may be better in the long run.

What I don't see are guys who can get drafted and step in on day one and lead the team to the playoffs unless they are given one heck of a supporting cast and coaching staff, which we lack.

tarkenton10
11-19-2013, 09:11 AM
If Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota or Johnny Manziel are off the board when the Vikes make their first pick then we need to wait on a QB in the later rounds. DE, CB, LB & DT are all needed in a major way. Plus Jay Cutler will be a FA. Cutler, AP, K. Rudolph, C Patterson & Greg Jennings. Fire both OC & DC, Fix defense in draft & FA & boom...Superbowl!

From the QBs I have seen the one I would want so far is Blake Bortles out of UCF. I watched one game and saw the highlights of the Penn state game. He seems to have a great pocket presence and he can make all the throws, he seems like a real leader. I really want to see him at the combine.

i_bleed_purple
11-19-2013, 09:19 AM
What makes you think any of those other QB's are any less likely to bust than the three you named? To me every QB you named has a high bust probability and I actually think there are less flashy but potentially safer picks down the line like petty, Mettenberger and a few others that may be better in the long run.

What I don't see are guys who can get drafted and step in on day one and lead the team to the playoffs unless they are given one heck of a supporting cast and coaching staff, which we lack.

I dont disagree. Unfortunately, IMO we picked a lousy time to have a top pick.

purplehelmut
11-19-2013, 09:30 AM
PF is right, none of the qbs projected as top picks are that enthralling. Any qb picked has bust potential, even top 10 picks. Unfortunately our GM and player personnel people can't seem to find the right qb anywhere or pick up that Rogers, Brady, Romo, Warner guy that is off the radar.

i_bleed_purple
11-19-2013, 09:43 AM
Rodgers is hardly an 'off the radar' guy. He was a projected top pick at one point who slipped into the late first round.

The guy that intrigues me is Mccarron. Manziel has Tebow-like bust all over him. Not sold on Mariota. Teddy is the top option right now, but still would be the #3 choice in the Luck/RG3 draft. McCarron comes from a pro style offense, and looks to be the guy who will catch on at the next level without just relying on athletic ability like every other top prospect this year. The thing is, he needs to sit for a season or two and learn. before being thrown out there.

Purple Floyd
11-19-2013, 09:55 AM
Face it. In the draft they are screwed as far as the fan base goes no matter what they do. if they take one of the top 3 projected players that guy will be expected to start day one for the fans or they will be up in arms. if that player does start and doesn't play like brady, manning etc they will revolt. If they wait, take another player other than a QB the fans will revolt. if they take a guy in the later rounds the fans will revolt.

Then again the FO has put themselves in this situation and they are going to have to work through the fan base not trusting them and being pissed at the moves they have made so far. t this point they were given the chance to build the team and they screwed it up. The state is giving them their new place to play and our reward for that is a 2-8 team and an owner who was convicted for fraud.

It;'s going to be a long, slow, painful healing process ladies and gentlemen.

i_bleed_purple
11-19-2013, 10:56 AM
Face it. In the draft they are screwed as far as the fan base goes no matter what they do. if they take one of the top 3 projected players that guy will be expected to start day one for the fans or they will be up in arms. if that player does start and doesn't play like brady, manning etc they will revolt. If they wait, take another player other than a QB the fans will revolt. if they take a guy in the later rounds the fans will revolt.

Then again the FO has put themselves in this situation and they are going to have to work through the fan base not trusting them and being pissed at the moves they have made so far. t this point they were given the chance to build the team and they screwed it up. The state is giving them their new place to play and our reward for that is a 2-8 team and an owner who was convicted for fraud.

It;'s going to be a long, slow, painful healing process ladies and gentlemen.

I think fans will be slightly more accomodating if they do a full restart. All new coaches/coordinators. Somebody proven. Have to be straighforward, it's a 3-year project. Groom a QB, build a D, rebuild the OL, keep Sully, Load and Kalil.,.EVERYBODY else better improve, or find a new team.

Scrap the T2, hell, since we're losing JA and KW anyway, now's a good a time as any to start the 3-4 transition.

We can make it work.


Griffen----Erin----Greenway---- Robison
-----Floyd---Draft/FA-----Guion

jargomcfargo
11-19-2013, 11:34 AM
The Vikings will have a top three pick again next year. It's an opportunity that has been rare in Vikings history. Last time they had such a high pick, Spielman traded back one spot, took Kalil, and people thought he was masterful in gaining an additional draft pick in addition to getting the player he wanted. He later moved up to snag Harrison Smith in the first round.
Both Luck and RGIII were gone when Kalil was chosen and Ponder 'the reach', was already on the roster.
No second round pick after moving up to grab Smith.
With the third pick of the third round, the Vikings took Josh robinson .
Russell Wilson went with the 12th pick of that round, Nick Foles with the 25th, and Kirk Cousins with the 7th pick of the fourth round.
This gives me little hope of the Vikings finding a diamond in the rough at QB in any round.

I want to see a new GM and coach select a point scoring player with the high first round pick the Vikings will have; preferably a QB. An opportunity to pick this high should not be squandered on a non point scoring player unless a blue chip appearing QB or WR aren't available.

Though Kalil is a good player, I would not have taken a lineman with that high of a pick.

tastywaves
11-19-2013, 11:52 AM
I think fans will be slightly more accomodating if they do a full restart. All new coaches/coordinators. Somebody proven. Have to be straighforward, it's a 3-year project. Groom a QB, build a D, rebuild the OL, keep Sully, Load and Kalil.,.EVERYBODY else better improve, or find a new team.

Scrap the T2, hell, since we're losing JA and KW anyway, now's a good a time as any to start the 3-4 transition.

We can make it work.


Griffen----Erin----Greenway---- Robison
-----Floyd---Draft/FA-----Guion

Only one thing will appease fans...winning. They shouldn't give a rat's ass what we think about any pick they make or any coaching change they make. All they need to do is find a way to make this team competitive and the fans will be on board.

If we reshuffle the entire coaching staff (which I'm in favor of), pick a sexy QB in the draft and revamp our offensive and defensive schemes, it may bring hope to the fan base for a year or so, but it's blind hope. Until they show a winning product on the field, they haven't accomplished anything.

I agree with PF that there may be some very solid QB's to be had after the first round. They may not be the sexiest dual threat guys, but solid passing QB's like McCarron, Mettenberger and Petty. Of these 3, I think Petty throws the best ball, but McCarron and Mettenberger are more battle tested and especially McCarron has shown consistent play when it matters most.

Mike Glennon is a good example of a guy who scouts thought was a great QB from the pocket, but his lack of scrambling ability and weak competition knocked him down to the 3rd round. I think he was the 3rd QB taken though in a historically bad QB draft. This year looks much stronger, even if there isn't a no brainer like Luck in it. However, if Bridgewater is an option without having to package a bunch of picks, I would have hard time passing him up.

Mike Holmgren's take on scouting a QB:


Holmgren would frequently tell the scouting staff to place a greater emphasis on intangible traits like football intelligence, confidence, leadership ability and mental toughness over physical attributes like arm strength. He believed a quarterback with average arm talent could succeed in the NFL, if he was an outstanding decision maker in the pocket and delivered accurate throws to receivers on the move. Holmgren would also point out that a quarterback must have the supporting cast around him to succeed, regardless of his individual talent.

This was a plug for McCarron on NFL.com.

mountainviking
11-19-2013, 11:54 AM
The bad news isn't really news at all: We Need a QB. The good news, is that there are several with potential coming out this year. In addition to Bridgewater, Mariota, and Johnny Football (none of whom I am fully sold on) there is also Hundley at UCLA, Boyd in Clemson, McCarron from 'Bama, Mettenberger in LSU and Derek Carr from Fresno State.

According to drafttek (link below) that is 7 QBs ranked in the top 42 picks and we currently have 2 of those, So the possibility of a decent project later in the first or early 2nd is definitely there...and, would open up the chance for us to replace one of our aging vets on the DL with an upgrade (at this point) like a Louis Nix, DT Notre Dame. And, if we are really considering going 3-4, guys big enough, mean enough and fast enough to play NT in that scheme are pretty rare, and grabbing a guy like Nix could go a long, long way toward making that scheme successful.

However, I for one am super sick of gambling on the QB position, and will also be fine with pulling the trigger on one of the earlier guys, if they are convinced he has the mental makeup to work hard, stay out of trouble, and be a leader who inspires his team to work hard.

Lots of the mocks I'm seeing have us going with Hundley at either 3 or 5, which is where I see us picking. He's got pro size at 6'3" and 227 lbs and has completed nearly 70% of his passes over the past 2 seasons. Then, instead, maybe we spend the later 1st (move up) or our 2nd, on the local kid, Hageman, to bolster the inside of our DL...



2014 NFL Draft Prospects | 2014 NFL Draft Board | Top 100 NFL Prospects | (http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2014.asp)

2014 NFL Mock Draft - WalterFootball.com (http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php)

mountainviking
11-19-2013, 12:06 PM
I just wanted to add to what Tasty is saying. Thing is, we have running the ball pretty well covered, what we don't have covered is Passing. So, the dual threat QB isn't so sexy to me. Yeah sure, you want an athlete who can buy time when needed, but passing accuracy and team leadership are way more important to me. Besides, most of these dual threat guys end up oft-injured anyway! ;)

tastywaves
11-19-2013, 12:15 PM
The bad news isn't really news at all: We Need a QB. The good news, is that there are several with potential coming out this year. In addition to Bridgewater, Mariota, and Johnny Football (none of whom I am fully sold on) there is also Hundley at UCLA, Boyd in Clemson, McCarron from 'Bama, Mettenberger in LSU and Derek Carr from Fresno State.

According to drafttek (link below) that is 7 QBs ranked in the top 42 picks and we currently have 2 of those, So the possibility of a decent project later in the first or early 2nd is definitely there...and, would open up the chance for us to replace one of our aging vets on the DL with an upgrade (at this point) like a Louis Nix, DT Notre Dame. And, if we are really considering going 3-4, guys big enough, mean enough and fast enough to play NT in that scheme are pretty rare, and grabbing a guy like Nix could go a long, long way toward making that scheme successful.

However, I for one am super sick of gambling on the QB position, and will also be fine with pulling the trigger on one of the earlier guys, if they are convinced he has the mental makeup to work hard, stay out of trouble, and be a leader who inspires his team to work hard.

Lots of the mocks I'm seeing have us going with Hundley at either 3 or 5, which is where I see us picking. He's got pro size at 6'3" and 227 lbs and has completed nearly 70% of his passes over the past 2 seasons. Then, instead, maybe we spend the later 1st (move up) or our 2nd, on the local kid, Hageman, to bolster the inside of our DL...



2014 NFL Draft Prospects | 2014 NFL Draft Board | Top 100 NFL Prospects | (http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2014.asp)

2014 NFL Mock Draft - WalterFootball.com (http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php)

Brett Hundley looks the part of an NFL QB and certainly has a strong arm, but I think he is still pretty raw.

jargomcfargo
11-19-2013, 05:10 PM
Taking an inaccurate QB and thinking you can fix him by working on his mechanics doesn't seem to be a reliable formula. I believe accuracy is somewhat innate and only rarely learned.
Rodgers has unbelievable accuracy and arm strength as well as the other qualities Holmgren looks for.
I agree with Holmgren but would add accuracy as a trait I would look for.

skum
11-19-2013, 05:17 PM
I might be against the masses but i wouldnt pick Mariota in the first round.

My QB Top 5 Right now should be something like

1. Bridgewater
2. Manziel
3. Murray
4. Mariota
5. McCarron

Id pick Bridgewater #1 Overall and Manziel proberly has value about the 10th pick to me.

Murray is a late first rounder in my eyes and then Mariotta in the second early.

I still don't know if i would like Manziel and the drama that comes with it, he has a lot of talent, but will veterans respect him and play hard for him if he comes in to the team with an attitude?.

PInfante97
11-19-2013, 07:40 PM
give me Teddy, give me Johnny, or give me death!!!! Mariota = 100% bust - he sux

Ranger
11-19-2013, 11:38 PM
Just draft the top rated QB in every round. One of those guys will have to pan out.

I'm only half-kidding, anymore. I'm so desperate to have a good, home-grown quarterback.

tastywaves
11-20-2013, 10:58 AM
Taking an inaccurate QB and thinking you can fix him by working on his mechanics doesn't seem to be a reliable formula. I believe accuracy is somewhat innate and only rarely learned.
Rodgers has unbelievable accuracy and arm strength as well as the other qualities Holmgren looks for.
I agree with Holmgren but would add accuracy as a trait I would look for.

Here's the article, they also stressed accuracy.

Scout's Take: AJ McCarron's winning traits will attract NFL teams - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000280777/article/scouts-take-aj-mccarrons-winning-traits-will-attract-nfl-teams)


Now, I know my assessment of McCarron's game runs counter to the popular opinion that a franchise quarterback exhibits excellence as a passer in all aspects (arm talent and range), but offensive coaches will quickly point to judgment and accuracy as the most important part of playing the position. This is an opinion voiced by veteran NFL coaches, and it is one of the tenets that I learned from Mike Holmgren during my time working as a scout for the Seattle Seahawks.

mountainviking
11-20-2013, 11:32 AM
Couple of quotes on McCarron that sound like things we've been missing under center for quite some time:


In fact, McCarron handled the blitz effectively all night by completing 9 of 13 passes with three touchdowns against five or more rushers. This has been one of the strengths of his game, with 13 of his 19 touchdown passes this season coming against the blitz.

Of course, passing-game enthusiasts fail to appreciate McCarron's contributions to the running game, but savvy offensive coordinators will respect his ability to read defensive fronts and make the appropriate run/pass checks based on the look. With most NFL offenses built around the quarterback making the adjustments at the line, McCarron's experience and effectiveness in a pro-style scheme will make him better prepared for the pro game than some of his counterparts.

purplehelmut
11-20-2013, 12:22 PM
I've been looking closer at McCarron and he could be the type of guy we need. And please, get of the freakin' Johnny effin' Football wagon, whoever is on it. Don't need the headaches that WILL come with this guy. Or his munchkin-like stature. McCarron is a healthy 6-4, 215. McCarron doesn't get the press because he doesn't throw 40 times a game.

midgensa
11-20-2013, 12:40 PM
The bad news isn't really news at all: We Need a QB. The good news, is that there are several with potential coming out this year. In addition to Bridgewater, Mariota, and Johnny Football (none of whom I am fully sold on) there is also Hundley at UCLA, Boyd in Clemson, McCarron from 'Bama, Mettenberger in LSU and Derek Carr from Fresno State.

According to drafttek (link below) that is 7 QBs ranked in the top 42 picks and we currently have 2 of those, So the possibility of a decent project later in the first or early 2nd is definitely there...and, would open up the chance for us to replace one of our aging vets on the DL with an upgrade (at this point) like a Louis Nix, DT Notre Dame. And, if we are really considering going 3-4, guys big enough, mean enough and fast enough to play NT in that scheme are pretty rare, and grabbing a guy like Nix could go a long, long way toward making that scheme successful.

However, I for one am super sick of gambling on the QB position, and will also be fine with pulling the trigger on one of the earlier guys, if they are convinced he has the mental makeup to work hard, stay out of trouble, and be a leader who inspires his team to work hard.

Lots of the mocks I'm seeing have us going with Hundley at either 3 or 5, which is where I see us picking. He's got pro size at 6'3" and 227 lbs and has completed nearly 70% of his passes over the past 2 seasons. Then, instead, maybe we spend the later 1st (move up) or our 2nd, on the local kid, Hageman, to bolster the inside of our DL...



2014 NFL Draft Prospects | 2014 NFL Draft Board | Top 100 NFL Prospects | (http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2014.asp)

2014 NFL Mock Draft - WalterFootball.com (http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php)

Well done.

There are a ton of posters around here talking about how bad the upcoming QB class is, but most draft experts seem to think this is one of the better QB classes in years ... maybe the third best since 2004 (Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger) and 2012 (Luck, Griffin, Wilson).

I think there is a ton of potential and chances are there are going to be two or three REALLY good QBs in this draft, it is a matter of hitting on one of them. There is definitely some luck involved, no doubt about it ... but good scouts can often make their own luck.

I personally would have no problem with Bridgewater, Hundley, Mariotta, Manziel, Boyd, Carr or Mettenberger. There are plenty of scouts and draftnicks that think these guys are starter material, so at least it is us trying to find the right one.

Personally, I love Tajh Boyd every single time I see him play. He simply makes fantastic throws deep and knows when to trust his receivers. He has some footwork issues that could likely be worked out ... and that could make him solid with the underneath game.

I just want to see us do something. It is clear that no matter how good our other players are, without a capable QB we are going nowhere. We had Favre for one year and it almost got us the golden goose ... but we have had garbage before and after and we have wasted superb talents like Kevin Williams, Antoine Winfield, Jared Allen, E.J. Henderson and Percy Harvin. All of whom are already used up ... or no longer Vikings. We are getting dangerously close to wasting one of the greatest running backs to ever lace them up.

We need to take a shot on one of these guys and hope that 2015 is our year. I just hope we nail down the right one.

C Mac D
11-20-2013, 01:08 PM
I've been looking closer at McCarron and he could be the type of guy we need. And please, get of the freakin' Johnny effin' Football wagon, whoever is on it. Don't need the headaches that WILL come with this guy. Or his munchkin-like stature. McCarron is a healthy 6-4, 215. McCarron doesn't get the press because he doesn't throw 40 times a game.

Size doesn't matter... Ponder is 6'2", 225lbs... doesn't seem to be helping him.

Purely based on talent, I'd much rather have Manziel, have you watched his games? Incredible talent. Can't believe you would rather pass on a sublime talent to take a mediocre arm based on his physical size... haven't you learned anything being a Vikings fan?

purplehelmut
11-20-2013, 01:59 PM
Been many a bust quarterback who had great talent. Much of being a successful NFL qb is between the ears. Based on that I'd take McCarron (and my high opinion of him is based on much more that his size- read the scouting reports) over the immature and hotheaded Manziel. I had to look up sublime and none of the definitions brought Johnny boy to mind- except the intransitive verb def that mentioned something about a solid changing into a vapor state which would describe Johnny's NFL career.

C Mac D
11-20-2013, 02:30 PM
Been many a bust quarterback who had great talent. Much of being a successful NFL qb is between the ears. Based on that I'd take McCarron (and my high opinion of him is based on much more that his size- read the scouting reports) over the immature and hotheaded Manziel. I had to look up sublime and none of the definitions brought Johnny boy to mind- except the intransitive verb def that mentioned something about a solid changing into a vapor state which would describe Johnny's NFL career.

subĚlime
səˈblīm/Submit
adjective
1.of such excellence, grandeur, or beauty as to inspire great admiration or awe.

If you watched his games and see him evade the pass rush, then place the ball on a dime... you'd understand. However, it seems you want to hate him for stuff unrelated to football. Maybe there's some merit to that, but he's 20. He's a kid. I'll go off his talent on the field, thank you.

And you seem to forget that McCarron is surrounded by the biggest and best players in college football. Remember Ken Dorsey? or Craig Krensel? Both fit the same mold as McCarron... and none could carry a team the way Manziel does. They're simply game managers, but not at the NFL level.

Actually, your opinion sort of reminds me of this article written about Cam Newton back in 2011.... are you Jim Folsom? Cam Newton: Why Carolina Panthers' New QB Is the Worst NFL Draft Pick Ever | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/694994-carolina-panther-cam-newton-is-the-worst-nfl-draft-pick-ever)

purplehelmut
11-20-2013, 03:03 PM
C, you sure have some mancrush on Johnny. Your McCarron comments are a rehash of the usual criticism against him. He can't help he plays on a great team and he sure ain't holding them back. I'd say he was recruited to Alabama for good reason. I believe character plays a huge part of making a successful NFL qb and teammate, and Johnny loses badly here. If you base the decision on who is drafted at qb on talent alone you're in for a nasty surprise- many elements make an NFL qb. Johnny is the next Jeff George. And I told you I looked up the word sublime. It just didn't remind me of any Johnny attributes. I'll watch ol' Johnny against a little better competition the next couple weeks (LSU and Mizz) and maybe I'll change my mind, but I doubt it. I don't hate Johnny, I just don't like him as a person or a future qb for the Vikings. Never heard of Jim Floatsom or whatever, but for the record I thought Newton would make a good NFL qb given his size and altheticism- both superior to your boy Johnny.

bleedpurple
11-20-2013, 03:39 PM
C, you sure have some mancrush on Johnny. Your McCarron comments are a rehash of the usual criticism against him. He can't help he plays on a great team and he sure ain't holding them back. I'd say he was recruited to Alabama for good reason. I believe character plays a huge part of making a successful NFL qb and teammate, and Johnny loses badly here. If you base the decision on who is drafted at qb on talent alone you're in for a nasty surprise- many elements make an NFL qb. Johnny is the next Jeff George. And I told you I looked up the word sublime. It just didn't remind me of any Johnny attributes. I'll watch ol' Johnny against a little better competition the next couple weeks (LSU and Mizz) and maybe I'll change my mind, but I doubt it. I don't hate Johnny, I just don't like him as a person or a future qb for the Vikings. Never heard of Jim Floatsom or whatever, but for the record I thought Newton would make a good NFL qb given his size and altheticism- both superior to your boy Johnny.

Johnny is a BOOB/Bust pick!.. he's ridiculously talented and a gamer, but on the flip side, he's erratic, has a weak arm and freelances quite a bit. he does remind me of Favre a little but he's a HUGE gamble.. one preferably I prefer the vikings not to take... esp. with the current coaching staff.

I do think it depends on the coaching staff... but I prefer to go with the safer pick and go with Teddy B. The other guys could also be successful, and may turn out to be great... it's a crap shoot...

But i think teddy is the best Qb in the draft...

pro1ml
11-20-2013, 03:54 PM
At this point, I tired of fucking around at the QB position. I say, we say 'hell with it' and draft two QBs. That way we are more apt to find the guy that can lead this team for the foreseeable future and we can end this turnstile bullshit at the position.

Lets put our eggs in two baskets instead of one and make sure we find one so we don't have another Ponder situation where we whiff.

drewlovs
11-20-2013, 05:58 PM
Manziel has horrible foot work, which means there is even more up-side to him. What I like about him, though, is his ability to get everyone to buy in to his leadership despite what many people call immaturity.

Never underestimate leadership when considering QBs. Tebow is/was not a great throwing QB, but he inspired a lack-luster team into doing some great things. You can say anyone with more ability could have done better, but the fact is, there WERE people with more ability who could not. Tebow was successful in Denver because he is a great leader, first and foremost.

Manziel has that same sort of inspirational play that gets a team to play at or above their ability level. I will not hate on the vikings for picking a bust; I just want them to keep trying, and not sit on a bust for 2-3 years "developing" that bust.

midgensa
11-21-2013, 12:25 PM
Simply put ...

Johnny Manziel would bring a swagger that the Vikings need. And I think he has a wow factor that you absolutely cannot deny if you watch him play with any regularity. McCarron is the next Ken Dorsey, Colt McCoy ... Christian Ponder. Someone who "gets it," but simply does not "have it."

i_bleed_purple
11-21-2013, 12:48 PM
Manziel has horrible foot work, which means there is even more up-side to him. What I like about him, though, is his ability to get everyone to buy in to his leadership despite what many people call immaturity.

Never underestimate leadership when considering QBs. Tebow is/was not a great throwing QB, but he inspired a lack-luster team into doing some great things. You can say anyone with more ability could have done better, but the fact is, there WERE people with more ability who could not. Tebow was successful in Denver because he is a great leader, first and foremost.

No, Tebow only did anything in denver because he had a great defense and no other problems on offense. Against a real team, they got lit up.


Manziel has that same sort of inspirational play that gets a team to play at or above their ability level. I will not hate on the vikings for picking a bust; I just want them to keep trying, and not sit on a bust for 2-3 years "developing" that bust.

Manziel brings as much hype and non-talent as Tebow.

Johnny Manziel Heisman Highlight Video Part 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp8iZAySN2M)

watch his highlight videos.

he stands FOREVER in the pocket, not finding a receiver, then makes many people miss while running. That simply wont work in the NFL. Add in his tendency to throw balls up for grabs for Evans to bail him out, and we'll see a LOT of turnovers at the next level. He'll take alot of hits, he'll get hurt. He's a slightly more talented Ponder, with all the same issues.

C Mac D
11-21-2013, 01:01 PM
Really doesn't matter who we bring in until we get a new coaching staff. If Frazier and company are still here next season, any QB who is brought in will fail. Our coaching staff simply isn't intelligent enough to groom a viable starter in the NFL.

purplehelmut
11-21-2013, 01:12 PM
Simply put ...

Johnny Manziel would bring a swagger that the Vikings need. And I think he has a wow factor that you absolutely cannot deny if you watch him play with any regularity. McCarron is the next Ken Dorsey, Colt McCoy ... Christian Ponder. Someone who "gets it," but simply does not "have it."

Based on what? McCarron is a much better qb than any you listed. This kid will succeed in the NFL. He doesn't have the stats because he doesn't have to throw for 300+ yards a game. Besides, the kid has got as many championship rings as he does losses. Handle pressure? Try being qb at 'Bama for pressure. You lose one game and they go crazy down there. This kid has it and I think he's the dark horse of the qbs in the draft.

jargomcfargo
11-21-2013, 01:59 PM
Really doesn't matter who we bring in until we get a new coaching staff. If Frazier and company are still here next season, any QB who is brought in will fail. Our coaching staff simply isn't intelligent enough to groom a viable starter in the NFL.

If they keep Frazier, he will keep Ponder, and I shall be a fan no longer. Not sure why I still am now. Guess the Vikings are a lot like a bad habit.

i_bleed_purple
11-21-2013, 02:12 PM
If they keep Frazier, he will keep Ponder, and I shall be a fan no longer. Not sure why I still am now. Guess the Vikings are a lot like a bad habit.

Everybody knows that cheering for the Vikings is bad for your health, but some people just can't quit.

drewlovs
11-21-2013, 05:37 PM
No, Tebow only did anything in denver because he had a great defense and no other problems on offense. Against a real team, they got lit up.


Manziel brings as much hype and non-talent as Tebow.

Johnny Manziel Heisman Highlight Video Part 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp8iZAySN2M)

watch his highlight videos.

he stands FOREVER in the pocket, not finding a receiver, then makes many people miss while running. That simply wont work in the NFL. Add in his tendency to throw balls up for grabs for Evans to bail him out, and we'll see a LOT of turnovers at the next level. He'll take alot of hits, he'll get hurt. He's a slightly more talented Ponder, with all the same issues.

Drafting a QB is a big crap shoot no matter WHO we are talking about. Doubts about RGIII are rising (though I personally think he is going to be fine), and for every "sure thing" QB that has done well, there are 2 that became jokes. Being a good college QB doesn't necessarily translate into being a good QB in the NFL, no matter what their highlight reel suggests.

All this being said, how can you be so sure of anything in regards to Manziel? He DOES inspire he teammates; he DOES have a never quit attitude, and has the ability to let bad decisions remain safely in the past.

All I'm saying is it would not surprise me that Manziel is a bust, but I think it would SHOCK you if he became a great NFL QB. I can't see how you can be that sure of your position.

mountainviking
11-22-2013, 02:22 PM
I'm less worried about Manziel's off field antics than his size combined with his style of play. I think his high end is very Mike Vick, sure, he'll make some awesome plays and play some great games, but, he's also very likely to be injured often.

I know, all eyes are on them and they are expected to be a good role model, but I feel like 20 year old kids should drink and celebrate life a little...make some bad decisions, and hopefully, learn some lessons.

Leadership is one seriously lacking thing on this year's Vikings. Ponder sometimes prefers to pout by himself, the old leaders on defense are unsure about their futures, and the HC is a bit tooo cool and steady. Peterson is mostly a quiet leader anyway, but has been playing dinged up and had horrible off-field distractions. I think we definitely need our next QB to have some fire, some serious attitude.

Of course, the low end on all QBs is that random chance that they can't handle the pressure mentally and they end up blowing up on and off field like a Leaf or just enjoying their money too much like Jamarcus Russell.

marshallvike
11-22-2013, 04:53 PM
If they keep Frazier, he will keep Ponder, and I shall be a fan no longer. Not sure why I still am now. Guess the Vikings are a lot like a bad habit.

Have no fear smegma. The coaching staff will be replaced and the misery that comes with being a Viking fan will continue throughout your life as it has with all of us.:)

purplehelmut
11-24-2013, 12:38 PM
Anybody see Johnny boy's game Saturday against LSU? I realize it's only one game but there you go. 16-41with 2 INTs is a bad game no matter how you slice it. Additionally, I saw a qb very uncomfortable in the pocket who tended to throw high if he was under pressure and who was too willing to pull it down and run. Mariota was uninspiring as well. Mettenberg looked pretty good and made some decent throws. Can't say much about the other guys who were in scrimmage games.

singersp
11-24-2013, 12:48 PM
How potential franchise QBs in the NFL draft stack up

Minnesota Vikings: How potential franchise QBs in the NFL draft stack up - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_24588356/minnesota-vikings-how-potential-franchise-qbs-nfl-draft)