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Purple Floyd
04-26-2013, 07:40 AM
OK

Some of you will have to bookmark this thread for later reference but I am going to declare this the best Vikings draft ever.
Three players in the top 30 picks and three of the best players available at their positions and all with the skills we needed to fit our schemes.
Not sure if Patterson is better than hunter but he has the body type to fill any void we may have in the WR position.

Floyd- well, I am very surprised he fell this far and to have a Purple Floyd on the team just plain rocks. The defense just got a lot better with that move.

Rhodes was what we have been missing at CB for probably 15 years and I love what he can bring to the defense. With Cook and Smith our secondary is going to be a whole lot better.

Saddle up boys and girls the next few years just got a lot more fun to watch and youth is going to be served.

HEY
04-26-2013, 08:47 AM
I like the optimism and I agree. Just looking at the pure values this is the Vikings' best draft of all-time.

Best DT and top 5 player at #23
Top 3 CB and top 20 player at #25
Best WR and top 20 player at #29

Zeus
04-26-2013, 11:00 AM
You're high.

Minnesota Vikings All-Time Draft History - Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/draft.htm)

1967 - Drafted Alan Page (HoF), Gene Washington and Bobby Bryant.
1977 - Drafted Tommy Kramer and Scott Studwell.
1983 - Drafted Joey Browner and Carl Lee.
1986 - Drafted Chris Doleman, Kirk Lowdermilk and Issaic Holt.
1988 - Drafted Randall McDaniel (HoF), Al Noga, Todd Kalis and Brian Habib.
1998 - Drafted Randy Moss and Matt Birk.
2007 - Drafted Adrian Peterson, Sidney Rice and Brian Robison.
2012 - Drafted Matt Kalil, Harrison Smith and Blair Walsh.

Any of those is rated higher (IMHO) than this draft - simply because we haven't seen any of these three play a down. I can look back through the draft list and remember being excited the day after a draft (SWEET - We got Derrick Alexander!!!) only to realize it was crap.

=Z=

Purple Floyd
04-26-2013, 11:15 AM
You're high.

Minnesota Vikings All-Time Draft History - Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/draft.htm)

1967 - Drafted Alan Page (HoF), Gene Washington and Bobby Bryant.
1977 - Drafted Tommy Kramer and Scott Studwell.
1983 - Drafted Joey Browner and Carl Lee.
1986 - Drafted Chris Doleman, Kirk Lowdermilk and Issaic Holt.
1988 - Drafted Randall McDaniel (HoF), Al Noga, Todd Kalis and Brian Habib.
1998 - Drafted Randy Moss and Matt Birk.
2007 - Drafted Adrian Peterson, Sidney Rice and Brian Robison.
2012 - Drafted Matt Kalil, Harrison Smith and Blair Walsh.

Any of those is rated higher (IMHO) than this draft - simply because we haven't seen any of these three play a down. I can look back through the draft list and remember being excited the day after a draft (SWEET - We got Derrick Alexander!!!) only to realize it was crap.

=Z=

Go lay by your dish negative Nancy.

HEY
04-26-2013, 11:22 AM
I can only speak for myself, but what I think Purple Floyd also means is that this is the best draft in Vikings history when purely looking at who we got WITHOUT seeing them play first. I'm not sure, but I don't think the Vikings have ever landed three players that each have been ranked either at the top or top 3 at their respective position. And especially when all of them has been relatively big needs.

Purple Floyd
04-26-2013, 11:24 AM
Happy Happy Happy.

Zeus
04-26-2013, 11:28 AM
Go lay by your dish negative Nancy.

It's called "being realistic".

=Z=

Purple Floyd
04-26-2013, 11:31 AM
Crappy attitude and the past is fogging your memory.

Zeus
04-26-2013, 11:33 AM
Crappy attitude and the past is fogging your memory.

That's some ballz there for you to try and flag someone else for a crappy attitude, LOL!

=Z=

Marrdro
04-26-2013, 11:43 AM
1983 - Drafted Joey Browner and Carl Lee.

Were is that GIANT smiley emoticon at? :)

Minniman
04-26-2013, 11:44 AM
I can only speak for myself, but what I think Purple Floyd also means is that this is the best draft in Vikings history when purely looking at who we got WITHOUT seeing them play first. I'm not sure, but I don't think the Vikings have ever landed three players that each have been ranked either at the top or top 3 at their respective position. And especially when all of them has been relatively big needs.
The economist in me always looks at opportunity costs. The Vikings did draft three players that were high on many boards, but they also gave up a major threat at wide receiver (Harvin) and whatever their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks would bring to the table. In those other drafts, they did not give up so much to get the players. In most cases, they just drafted well.

Am I happy with the players the Vikings picked, yes. Am I happy with the way they did it, not really.

On the other hand, I have stated that great teams are built with great players and a supporting cast. If the Vikings really did get value by picking up three blue chips, then the moves will have been for the better. Red chip supporting players and white chip depth players are easier to fill in free agency than blue chips.

The problem is that this draft is all on paper. We do not know any or all of these players will bust. Trading one draft pick for two or three other picks is always a danger if for no other reason than having more high pick player in camp helps smooth out the boom/bust curve.

All three of these players dropped because of potential downsides. Sharrif Floyd has short arms, a high bubble, and does not get a consist push into the backfield. Xavier Rhodes can bump and cover man-up, but he has not show he can cover in space in zone situations. Cordarrelle Patterson has the size and moves, but he catches with the body far too often, and his route running is not great. All of them have shown they can play well in college and have NFL potential, but none of them are without weaknesses that could bust them at the higher level.

Best draft ever? We will see.

singersp
04-26-2013, 11:45 AM
I can only speak for myself, but what I think Purple Floyd also means is that this is the best draft in Vikings history when purely looking at who we got WITHOUT seeing them play first. I'm not sure, but I don't think the Vikings have ever landed three players that each have been ranked either at the top or top 3 at their respective position. And especially when all of them has been relatively big needs.

He may mean that, but that's still misleading because you're looking at all the other drafts in hindsight, rather than the day after the draft.

2003 for example had us taking Kevin Williams, E.J. Henderson, Nate Burleson & Onterrio Smith.

Smith, now known as the Whizzinator was more commonly referred to the "Steal Of the Draft" back then.

Minniman
04-26-2013, 11:50 AM
He may mean that, but that's still misleading because you're looking at all the other drafts in hindsight, rather than the day after the draft.

2003 for example had us taking Kevin Williams, E.J. Henderson, Nate Burleson & Onterrio Smith.

Smith, now known as the Whizzinator was more commonly referred to the "Steal Of the Draft" back then.
Many fans and pundits thought Williams to be a reach. He ended up a high value player.

Smith was the steal of the draft. He stole the pick and pissed it away.

C Mac D
04-26-2013, 11:57 AM
Smith was the steal of the draft. He stole the pick and pissed it away.

Lame Joke Drums - Rimshot (For use in forums) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frd53vbCHLg)

I'm absolutely thrilled with the draft. Obviously these guys need to prove themselves on the field, but you can't fault Spielman for being aggressive and going after guys he liked.

Really hope we can get Justin Hunter too... but he'll definitely be gone by the third round.

C Mac D
04-26-2013, 12:15 PM
If we can come out of this draft with Kenjon Barner also... it will be my absolute favorite draft ever. I'll never say another bad word about our front office again.

tastywaves
04-26-2013, 12:17 PM
The Vikings appeared to be true to their board with the first two picks. The third pick they must have placed a very high value on to make the trade that they did, I'm a bit mixed on this one. Mostly because of the risk associated with the player and the opportunity cost to get him.

What stands out to me with those three picks is that they are all extremely athletic, maybe the most athletic for their respective positions in this draft.

I think they will all have a significant impact in 2013 which you would expect for first rounders.

Patterson is a bit of a wildcard, but with Ponder as our QB and our ability to develop WR's, does anyone doubt that Patterson won't quickly reach his true potential in a short period of time? At least we know Ponder's favorite throw will live on...right Singer.

C Mac D
04-26-2013, 12:25 PM
Patterson is a bit of a wildcard, but with Ponder as our QB and our ability to develop WR's, does anyone doubt that Patterson won't quickly reach his true potential in a short period of time? At least we know Ponder's favorite throw will live on...right Singer.

Yeah, I almost would have rather drafted Justin Hunter over Patterson... but I'm still thrilled.

Any WR drafted is going to be a wildcard until they hit the field.

tastywaves
04-26-2013, 12:27 PM
Yeah, I almost would have rather drafted Justin Hunter over Patterson... but I'm still thrilled.

Any WR drafted is going to be a wildcard until they hit the field.

Patterson will give us instant production, however, it probably won't be a consistent down field target for a while. Don't have a problem with the pick, but they did gamble fairly heavy on him.

Minniman
04-26-2013, 01:10 PM
Patterson will give us instant production, however, it probably won't be a consistent down field target for a while. Don't have a problem with the pick, but they did gamble fairly heavy on him.
I believe the Vikings will use Patterson on kick returns from the get go and ease him in as a receiver. That is how it is done with most receivers anyway, so it is no big change.

I actually expect more impact in 2014 from these guys than in 2013. Floyd is an undertackle, and he will play behind Kevin Williams as a rookie. Corner and receiver are positions that usually play out in their second or third season.

Zeus
04-26-2013, 01:12 PM
Any WR drafted is going to be a wildcard until they hit the field.

In your 13,000+ posts, this might be the single smartest thing you've ever written on PPO.

Congrats!

=Z=

singersp
04-26-2013, 01:18 PM
I believe the Vikings will use Patterson on kick returns from the get go and ease him in as a receiver.

They might if he can beat out Sherels at the NFL level. Patterson averaged 26.8 in college last year, Sherels averaged 26.4. Of course, if Sherels is cut at the end of camp that becomes moot.

C Mac D
04-26-2013, 01:23 PM
I believe the Vikings will use Patterson on kick returns from the get go and ease him in as a receiver. That is how it is done with most receivers anyway, so it is no big change.

I actually expect more impact in 2014 from these guys than in 2013. Floyd is an undertackle, and he will play behind Kevin Williams as a rookie. Corner and receiver are positions that usually play out in their second or third season.

Really? I'm not positive, but I think Floyd will start next to Kevin Williams, replacing Letroy Guion.

Zeus
04-26-2013, 01:50 PM
Really? I'm not positive, but I think Floyd will start next to Kevin Williams, replacing Letroy Guion.

Nope - in the D-line, he's the same sort of guy as KWill. The papers here, however, think they will find ways to get them both on the line at the same time. Kevin's done after 2013.

=Z=

C Mac D
04-26-2013, 01:59 PM
Nope - in the D-line, he's the same sort of guy as KWill. The papers here, however, think they will find ways to get them both on the line at the same time. Kevin's done after 2013.

=Z=

Yeah, I realize the position is the same... but still believe Floyd will start over Guion. I mean, they play Griffin at DT sometimes, so I'm not really too concerned about what position he's currently labeled as... you want to get your talent on the field.

Zeus
04-26-2013, 03:34 PM
Yeah, I realize the position is the same... but still believe Floyd will start over Guion. I mean, they play Griffin at DT sometimes, so I'm not really too concerned about what position he's currently labeled as... you want to get your talent on the field.

I just think it's important for folks to realize which Williams he's more likely to be replacing. He's not a big butt in the middle like Phat Pat.

=Z=

HEY
04-26-2013, 04:54 PM
Yeah, I almost would have rather drafted Justin Hunter over Patterson... but I'm still thrilled.
Forget Justin Hunter a.k.a. Sir Drops-a-lot! a.k.a. "Poor Man's Randy Moss".
Cordarelle Patterson is slightly faster, more explosive, has better hands, is much more versatile, and is a MUCH better runner with the ball.

NodakPaul
04-26-2013, 04:56 PM
I just think it's important for folks to realize which Williams he's more likely to be replacing. He's not a big butt in the middle like Phat Pat.

=Z=

This is absolutely correct. KW's contract is up after this year, and in all likelihood I can see him moving on if Floyd pans out as expected.

It is going to be fun/interesting to see them playing side by side for a while this year tho. :)

Purple Floyd
04-26-2013, 05:50 PM
It is going to be fun/interesting to see them playing side by side for a while this year tho. :)
All the way to the fooking Super Bowl Homie.

marstc09
04-26-2013, 10:45 PM
Nope - in the D-line, he's the same sort of guy as KWill. The papers here, however, think they will find ways to get them both on the line at the same time. Kevin's done after 2013.

=Z=

Yeah, I realize the position is the same... but still believe Floyd will start over Guion. I mean, they play Griffin at DT sometimes, so I'm not really too concerned about what position he's currently labeled as... you want to get your talent on the field.

Exactly. He can play both sides as well as inside and outside. A little research suggests that he will see time along side Kevin.

skum
04-26-2013, 11:19 PM
The notion that we got a top 5 player at 23 and a top 20 player at 25 and another top 20 player at 29 is ridiculous, first of all there is no way to tell how these players will pan out and secondly, in Floyds case 22 GM's passed on him. 24 in Rhodes case and 28 in Pattersons case.

And calling in the best draft ever before the draft is over is also a bit of a stretch.

VikesfaninWis
04-27-2013, 12:28 AM
Love that Floyd dropped to us at #23, that was a steal. Rhodes was a awesome pick as well, he has the speed, height, instincts, and gets his hands on receivers at the line of scrimmage, I like that. We needed someone like him to take on the WR's in this division. What makes it better is that we no longer have to watch AJ Jefferson be a starter on this team, talk about killing two birds with one stone.

I am still up in the air on Patterson. While II like his height and speed, I hate the fact that he doesn't run good routes, and is basically raw as a WR. We need someone that can contribute in a big way from day one, and I think we could have kept all those picks, moved up in the 2nd rd if need be, and gotten someone like Allen, Hunter, or Woods who would have helped this team more in the short term. If they traded all those picks to move back into the 1st rd to draft Patterson as a return specialist with his speed, well that is just plain stupid.

Now about the LB situation. I truly hope they have something planned for this. I don't think there is a LB on the roster that is suited to be the MLB. Henderson has already been given a shot, and he didn't perform. I don't think Mitchell and Cole are the answers there either. To bad Bostic is taken already, he would have been a nice pickup for the Vikes. Unfortunately, we may have to still see him, except now it will be him wearing a Bears jersey.

If not viable LB is available in the 4th rd, then I believe the Vikes have to go after Urlacher or Dansby. It would be a shame if they invested in a boost up their defense with a impact DT and CB, just to have nothing at MLB. This defense actually could be a strength next year, but only if they get the MLB situation right.

Nice draft overall. Even if they didn't get another pick in this draft, I would rate this draft as a A+ for sure.

singersp
04-27-2013, 09:16 AM
I just think it's important for folks to realize which Williams he's more likely to be replacing. He's not a big butt in the middle like Phat Pat.

=Z=

Pretty sure there is only one Williams on our DL. That makes it pretty obvious if indeed he was brought in here to replace Williams.

Purple Floyd
04-27-2013, 09:24 AM
Some people contend PW was never replaced and the spot is still open

singersp
04-27-2013, 09:28 AM
The notion that we got a top 5 player at 23 and a top 20 player at 25 and another top 20 player at 29 is ridiculous, first of all there is no way to tell how these players will pan out and secondly, in Floyds case 22 GM's passed on him. 24 in Rhodes case and 28 in Pattersons case.

And calling in the best draft ever before the draft is over is also a bit of a stretch.

I'd still rather take the chance on players that were projected to go top 5 & two at top 20 with picks #23, 25 & 29 rather than take that same chance on players that were projected to go 23rd, 25th & 29th or reaching into the next round like we did with Ponder.

Plus those 3 are all positions of need.

As far as labeling this the best Vikings draft ever in 52 years, that is quite premature at this point considering we've seen none of them take a snap. We've drafted several players in the past that fans were ascetic about, only to watch them not pan out. We've also drafted some people didn't like that ended up being great players.

C Mac D
04-27-2013, 09:41 AM
I just think it's important for folks to realize which Williams he's more likely to be replacing. He's not a big butt in the middle like Phat Pat.

=Z=

I think everyone understands that.

Pretty sure both Williams and Floyd will be starting, especially after Frasier came out today and said "They'll be a great combination for us..." referring to the both of them.

Call me crazy, but I'd be willing to bet both Floyd and Williams will start on the DL in the first defensive snap of the season... Floyd will move into Kevin Williams' spot next year.

snowinapril
04-27-2013, 01:52 PM
Mayocks Mock------------------------------Actual

22. Alec Ogletree ILB (Rams)------------------Desmond Trufant CB (ATL) Must have moved up so Vikes couldn't take their guy
23. Cordarrelle Patterson WR (Vikings)---------Sharrif Floyd DT (Vikings) Projected top 10
24. DJ Hayden CB (Colts)---------------------Bjoern Werner DE (Colts) Projected 28th
25. Sylvester Williams DE (Vikings)-------------Xavier Rhodes CB (Vikings) Projected 29th
26, Eddie Lacey RB (Packers)------------------Dante Jones DE (Packers) They took Lacey 61st Overall good draft by Ted
27, Justin Hunter WR (Texans)-----------------DeAndre Hopkins WR (Texans)
28 Bjoern Werner DE (Broncos)----------------Sylvester Williams DT (Broncos)
29 Xavier Rhodes CB (Patriots)----------------Cordarrelle Patterson WR (Vikings) Hunter (34th) and Woods (41) also available at this time.
30. Desmond Trufant CB (ATL)----------------Alec Ogletree ILB (ATL)
31. Zach Ertz TE (SF)------------------------Travis Frederick C (Cowboys) WTF?
32 Matt Elam FS (Ravens)--------------------Matt Elam FS (Ravens)

So the Vikings took Floyd at 23, possibly the best player available with the chance to take a CB or a WR at the 25th spot. In most of the Mocks it was thought that the Colts would take a CB at 24th spot. We took the chance, we must have liked a few CBs about the same, toss up?

So we pick the Rhodes at 25, not knowing if we are going to get the 29th pick from the Patriots. It is assumed that the Texans will take a WR at 27. We assume one WR will come off the board. The pick we gave up in the 2nd round was the 52nd overall pick the last WR taken before that pick was Robert Woods at the 41st overall pick. The Bills took moved back in the 1st round took a QB and waited to take Woods in the second.

We gambled by not taking a WR with the 23 and 25th picks unless we were confident that Pats would trade with us. Woods may not have fallen to us at the 52nd overall slot. The next WR taken after Woods was Aaron Dobson (by the Pats) at 59th. If we wanted to move up in the 2nd round, we would have had to give up a few pick anyway to secure a higher second round pick to get our WR. It was worth the picks in my opinion.

Lippythelion69
04-27-2013, 02:05 PM
I concur

Minniman
04-28-2013, 05:41 PM
I was watching Patterson game film. He is on the move a lot. Can Ponder even hit him.

I hope that stop and hold flat pass isn't going to be used five times a game this season.

vikesrgreat2
04-28-2013, 09:32 PM
:rofl:
Many fans and pundits thought Williams to be a reach. He ended up a high value player.

Smith was the steal of the draft. He stole the pick and pissed it away.

tarkenton10
04-29-2013, 09:58 AM
Nope - in the D-line, he's the same sort of guy as KWill. The papers here, however, think they will find ways to get them both on the line at the same time. Kevin's done after 2013.

=Z=

Kwill has grown a bit since drafted and I think he can be used as a 0 tech so they can have Floyd & Kwill on the field at the same time.

Marrdro
04-29-2013, 01:21 PM
Patterson will give us instant production, however, it probably won't be a consistent down field target for a while. Don't have a problem with the pick, but they did gamble fairly heavy on him.

Who cares if he isn't a down field target right away? We need help were he is going to help us right away and thats on the intermediate routes and in the end zone. :)

Marrdro
04-29-2013, 01:26 PM
Kwill has grown a bit since drafted and I think he can be used as a 0 tech so they can have Floyd & Kwill on the field at the same time.

Anyone who thinks Shariff was drafted to replace K-dubb doesn't understand the difference between a 3 and a 1 tech.

My guess, as the season wears on and our rooks on the D-line figure it out, you will see Shariff at the 1, K-dubb at the 3 in our base and a mixture of Guion, Ballard, Dawkins and Fred if he stays behind them.

In the end, you don't have to weight 350 lbs to be a Warpig. You just have to have the talent. Shariff has the talent.

tarkenton10
04-29-2013, 02:01 PM
Anyone who thinks Shariff was drafted to replace K-dubb doesn't understand the difference between a 3 and a 1 tech.

My guess, as the season wears on and our rooks on the D-line figure it out, you will see Shariff at the 1, K-dubb at the 3 in our base and a mixture of Guion, Ballard, Dawkins and Fred if he stays behind them.

In the end, you don't have to weight 350 lbs to be a Warpig. You just have to have the talent. Shariff has the talent.

I think you are wrong, Floyd played a five tech most of his time at FLA and only this year did he move to 3 tech. He is 297 and will have problems holding the point. I think they play Floyd in the traditional 3 tech and get them both on the field by moving Kwill to 1. Remember Kwill will most likely be gone and Floyd is his heir apparent.

Marrdro
04-29-2013, 02:06 PM
I think you are wrong, Floyd played a five tech most of his time at FLA and only this year did he move to 3 tech. He is 297 and will have problems holding the point. I think they play Floyd in the traditional 3 tech and get them both on the field by moving Kwill to 1. Remember Kwill will most likely be gone and Floyd is his heir apparent.

I don't have my "Ourlads" scouting mag here with me but I will try to plug some stuff in tonight if my schedule permits, but he is not just a 3 tech based on their report (which I value more than online stuff).

He might not start there right away this year, but by the end of the season he will be our eventual replacement for Phat Pat if their assessment is correct.

In the end, don't under rate this guy because he doesn't weight 350lbs....at his weight now, this cat could line up as the NT in a 3-4, DE in a 3-4, UT in a 4-3, 3 tech in a 4-3, and 5 tech in a 4-3 he is that flexible.

What he will need to iron out is some of his "Pass rushing" skills. A bit to one dimensional now.

tarkenton10
04-29-2013, 02:28 PM
I don't have my "Ourlads" scouting mag here with me but I will try to plug some stuff in tonight if my schedule permits, but he is not just a 3 tech based on their report (which I value more than online stuff).

He might not start there right away this year, but by the end of the season he will be our eventual replacement for Phat Pat if their assessment is correct.

In the end, don't under rate this guy because he doesn't weight 350lbs....at his weight now, this cat could line up as the NT in a 3-4, DE in a 3-4, UT in a 4-3, 3 tech in a 4-3, and 5 tech in a 4-3 he is that flexible.

What he will need to iron out is some of his "Pass rushing" skills. A bit to one dimensional now.

NT in a 3-4, I am skeptical about that. I haven't seen anyone project him as one of those type of cats. I would like to see it because I am not convinced he can hold the point as a 0/1 tech guy.

Marrdro
04-29-2013, 02:37 PM
NT in a 3-4, I am skeptical about that. I haven't seen anyone project him as one of those type of cats. I would like to see it because I am not convinced he can hold the point as a 0/1 tech guy.
He can't right now against NFL caliber OLmen, but he did at the collegiate level.

Again, he will have to improve his hand work as well as add some weight (which He can).

tarkenton10
04-29-2013, 02:46 PM
He can't right now against NFL caliber OLmen, but he did at the collegiate level.

Again, he will have to improve his hand work as well as add some weight (which He can).

Well, if he does do that then he may work out but I still would like him to stay around his weight. I like his explosiveness and quickness at the 3 tech. If they add weight and he is still that quick and explosive then we got a heck of a 0/1 tech for years to come.

Marrdro
04-29-2013, 02:51 PM
Well, if he does do that then he may work out but I still would like him to stay around his weight. I like his explosiveness and quickness at the 3 tech. If they add weight and he is still that quick and explosive then we got a heck of a 0/1 tech for years to come.
My guess is both he and Dawkins will add weight slowly this year with the goal to be at their desired weight in 2014.

tarkenton10
04-29-2013, 02:54 PM
My guess is both he and Dawkins will add weight slowly this year with the goal to be at their desired weight in 2014.

Maybe they keep Dawkins at his weight and have our 0/1 tech (Floyd) and our 3 tech (Dawkins) for years to come.

Marrdro
04-29-2013, 03:01 PM
Maybe they keep Dawkins at his weight and have our 0/1 tech (Floyd) and our 3 tech (Dawkins) for years to come.

Don't forget Ballard as well as Guion. I think alot of people hack on Guion when they don't understand that he is really being forced to play out of position.

Regardless, Guion, Ballard, D and the Sheriff will give us a very nice rotation, as you said, for years to come.

Throw in what you can do with Griff (outside at RDE or LDE/Inside at the 3) and Rob (RDE or LDE inside at the 3) rotate Sheriff and Ballard outside to RDE/LDE etc. Dang if that wouldn't make my head hurt (if I was a C) watching those cats switching spots just before the snap.

tarkenton10
04-29-2013, 03:07 PM
Don't forget Ballard as well as Guion. I think alot of people hack on Guion when they don't understand that he is really being forced to play out of position.

Regardless, Guion, Ballard, D and the Sheriff will give us a very nice rotation, as you said, for years to come.

Throw in what you can do with Griff (outside at RDE or LDE/Inside at the 3) and Rob (RDE or LDE inside at the 3) rotate Sheriff and Ballard outside to RDE/LDE etc. Dang if that wouldn't make my head hurt (if I was a C) watching those cats switching spots just before the snap.

I like the sounds of that but we will most likely lose Robison after this year, Kwill after this year and maybe Allen. Big transition after this year to our D-line!! I will predict we keep Griffen, he is really coming on and let Robison go (why not trade him this year and get something). Kwill will move on and we won't get anyhting for him. And what do you do with JA and his contract negotiation, another player lost without any compensation.

2beersTommy
04-29-2013, 03:15 PM
Anyone who thinks Shariff was drafted to replace K-dubb doesn't understand the difference between a 3 and a 1 tech.



this includes me, I don't understand any of the tech's..would love to hear the differences..

Marrdro
04-29-2013, 03:19 PM
this includes me, I don't understand any of the tech's..would love to hear the differences..

I have a real nice thread on it here. Let me search for it.

tastywaves
04-29-2013, 03:57 PM
Who cares if he isn't a down field target right away? We need help were he is going to help us right away and thats on the intermediate routes and in the end zone. :)

By downfield, I meant off the line of scrimmage as in running routes beyond the line of scrimmage. Wasn't specifically referring to deep routes, but any routes other than screens, slants, reverses, lining up in the backfield ala Percy, or returning kicks/punts

As a pass receiver, I expect a fair amount of inconsistency.

singersp
04-30-2013, 08:33 AM
Don't forget Ballard as well as Guion. I think alot of people hack on Guion when they don't understand that he is really being forced to play out of position.

LOL! You were one of those hacking on Guion last offseason. You & I went a few rounds on that one.

singersp
04-30-2013, 08:40 AM
this includes me, I don't understand any of the tech's..would love to hear the differences..

I don't know why they just don't use the terms RDE. LDE, NT & DT. Same when it comes to pass routes. Why use a number or letter when many fans here don't now what the numbers mean. PP.o has a huge fan base & not everyone has played football.

tarkenton10
04-30-2013, 09:06 AM
I don't know why they just don't use the terms RDE. LDE, NT & DT. Same when it comes to pass routes. Why use a number or letter when many fans here don't now what the numbers mean. PP.o has a huge fan base & not everyone has played football.

I guess because the numbers are more exact as to where the d-linemen line up. A NT doesn't tell you where he is in regards to the center or guard. For example, if he is at a 0 tech (NT) is directly over the center, however, if he is a 1 tech (NT) he is in the gap between the center and guard. And so on, so calling someone a NT doesn't align them in the proper gap or over the head of the O-linemen. I think Marrdro may be able to explain it better though.

Marrdro
04-30-2013, 09:31 AM
LOL! You were one of those hacking on Guion last offseason. You & I went a few rounds on that one.
I hack on all players making mistakes. I think if you go back and look you will see that those instances were when he was lined up at the 3 and Kevin was at the 1.

Marrdro
04-30-2013, 09:36 AM
I don't know why they just don't use the terms RDE. LDE, NT & DT. Same when it comes to pass routes. Why use a number or letter when many fans here don't now what the numbers mean. PP.o has a huge fan base & not everyone has played football.
You don't have to have football experience to learn something new (and in great detail) about the game.

Just posted another thread with a couple of links. One of which shows the alignments (which is all the tech really is) in the general football forum.

Besides, the whole game is predicated on learning the "Verbiage".... Learning what a X, Y and Z WR is or a 1 Tech DT doesn't even scratch the surface....


Gruden: "You know some of the verbiage in the NFL, I don't know how it was at Auburn, but it gets long. You've got the shifts, the plays, the protections, the snap count, the alerts, the check-with-me's. I mean, 'flip right double-X jet 36 counter naked wagglet seven X quarter.' Call something at Auburn that's a little verbal. What would be a little verbal? Any recollection on that? Give me something. What does an Auburn play sound like?"

Newton: "Oh man, you put me on the spot."

Gruden: "You guys don't get in the huddle much though, right?"

Indeed, Newton went on to explain that most plays he called during his one season at Auburn were signaled with a card from the sideline. The card might only say "36."


I thought it was pretty funny during that exchange that a QB coming out of college, as highly rated as Newton, couldn't even make the simplest of play calls.

A dramatic example of NFL verbiage - NFC North Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/26058/a-dramatic-example-of-the-verbiage-adjustment)

Marrdro
04-30-2013, 10:02 AM
I guess because the numbers are more exact as to where the d-linemen line up. A NT doesn't tell you where he is in regards to the center or guard. For example, if he is at a 0 tech (NT) is directly over the center, however, if he is a 1 tech (NT) he is in the gap between the center and guard. And so on, so calling someone a NT doesn't align them in the proper gap or over the head of the O-linemen. I think Marrdro may be able to explain it better though.

Nope, you explained it perfectly.

Is it really necessary to break it down to that detail? Probably not, but when we start to get into discussions about such things as how our G's suck, it makes it easier to explain why they don't (at least on a given play) if you can point out things like pre-snap alignments, reads and eventually (for this point) helmet placement of the G on his initial block.

On a side note, now that we can see those things from the "All 22" and "End Zone" camera angles it greatly enhances after game analysis and ultimately discussions like this at the water cooler (or PPO Page) :)

Coaches Film - Watch "All-22" video footage of every play! - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/coachesfilm)

tastywaves
04-30-2013, 12:10 PM
this includes me, I don't understand any of the tech's..would love to hear the differences..

The numbering system refers to their alignment as mentioned by tark and marr, the responsibility is what really defines the techniques though. In a 4-3, they typically look for 1 technique (one gap responsibility who eats up two blockers) and 3 technique players (one gap and looks to shoot the gap for penetration into the backfield) for the inside. 3-4 uses a 0 technique in the middle (two gap responsibility lined up over center, big boy position) and 5 technique (two gap lined up over the tackles) on the outside DL. Here's a breakdown from PFF:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/12/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/

2beersTommy
04-30-2013, 02:17 PM
The numbering system refers to their alignment as mentioned by tark and marr, the responsibility is what really defines the techniques though. In a 4-3, they typically look for 1 technique (one gap responsibility who eats up two blockers) and 3 technique players (one gap and looks to shoot the gap for penetration into the backfield) for the inside. 3-4 uses a 0 technique in the middle (two gap responsibility lined up over center, big boy position) and 5 technique (two gap lined up over the tackles) on the outside DL. Here's a breakdown from PFF:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/12/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/

Thanks, btw, I do have football experience, but that limited me to knowing what the CB's & Safeties did.

Marrdro
04-30-2013, 03:15 PM
Thanks, btw, I do have football experience, but that limited me to knowing what the CB's & Safeties did.

LOL, I played as well (at the high school level) but it was many many years ago and if I could remember that far back, it sure didn't teach me things that they do at the NFL level.

2beersTommy
04-30-2013, 07:57 PM
LOL, I played as well (at the high school level) but it was many many years ago and if I could remember that far back, it sure didn't teach me things that they do at the NFL level.

same here Marty..I can relate.

Purple Floyd
04-30-2013, 11:26 PM
Let me repeat myself- EVER.

Minniman
05-01-2013, 01:45 PM
Let me repeat myself- EVER.
For the Vikings, or for any team?