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singersp
04-03-2013, 07:26 AM
Vikings stadium mess: A sign of things to come?

Vikings stadium mess: A sign of things to come? | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/200957891.html?src=news-stmp&refer=y)

NodakPaul
04-03-2013, 07:31 AM
MOre of an anti-Dayton article than anything substantial on the stadium. In fact, there wasn't a single piece of new information about the stadium in there. He didn't mentions that the stadium funding was brought up in committee this week, nor did he mention the fact that stadium expenses have so far been 100% covered by the Vikings initial $50 million down payment. But he DID talk about Dayton's future health care plans.

Despite the title, this is not an article about the Vikings or the stadium. It doesn't need to be posted here. JMHO

Purple Floyd
04-03-2013, 07:39 AM
The old PF would have read that article and said DUH.

The new and improved yes man type PF says everything will be fine and the guys doing this do it for a living so they must know more about it than the average rube. There will be more than enough money in no time at all and then they will have to invent new ways to spend it all.

NodakPaul
04-03-2013, 10:24 AM
The old PF would have read that article and said DUH.

The new and improved yes man type PF says everything will be fine and the guys doing this do it for a living so they must know more about it than the average rube. There will be more than enough money in no time at all and then they will have to invent new ways to spend it all.

lol, I don't think the old or new PF read that article. It had ZERO substance about the stadium outside a line or two from previous reports.

As for the stadium "mess", I don't think very many people expected the pull tabs to completely cover the stadium expense. Most expected them to do better than they are though. Still, I laugh at some of the articles that are being put out there with half-facts and misinformation.

1) The pull tabs were never expected to have an annual revenue of $34 million. They were expected to have an average annual revenue of $34 million over 30 years. Every model expected them to start slow and gain revenue through both increased sales and inflation, although I think estimates for year 1 were closer to the $8-9 million mark. So they are still significantly short. Every time someone comes in and says something like "The revenue from electronic pull tabs is $32.3 million short..." it tells me right away that they didn't bother actually researching the issue and are just rehashing what they heard elsewhere.

2) The pull tabs are set up pretty poorly anyway, which I think is causing the poor adoption. Paper pull tabs have much better odds for the small prizes. Plus, you cannot look into a big bucket and estimate your odds at any of the remaining prizes based on the number of tabs left. There is no visible "bucket" for electronic pull tabs. Finally, people like the feel of pulling open paper tabs. All of these things doomed the electronic pull tabs almost from the start.

3) Most people - not all, but most - realized from the start that the pull tabs wouldn't cover it. That is why there were "blink on" financing options included in the bill, including a sports themed lottery and a 10% tax of luxury seats. There were a lot more blink on financing options included in the original bill, but many of them got cut in committee. Including the smartest one, a tax on hotels and rental cars.

The sky is not falling, despite what some columnists who are too lazy to do any real legwork might think...

Randy Moss
04-03-2013, 12:53 PM
This is just a hit piece. It's about Dayton, not the Vikings.


Jeff Johnson, of Plymouth, is a member of the Hennepin County Board and is Minnesota’s Republican National Committeeman.

Purple Floyd
04-03-2013, 01:25 PM
lol, I don't think the old or new PF read that article. It had ZERO substance about the stadium outside a line or two from previous reports.

As for the stadium "mess", I don't think very many people expected the pull tabs to completely cover the stadium expense. Most expected them to do better than they are though. Still, I laugh at some of the articles that are being put out there with half-facts and misinformation.

1) The pull tabs were never expected to have an annual revenue of $34 million. They were expected to have an average annual revenue of $34 million over 30 years. Every model expected them to start slow and gain revenue through both increased sales and inflation, although I think estimates for year 1 were closer to the $8-9 million mark. So they are still significantly short. Every time someone comes in and says something like "The revenue from electronic pull tabs is $32.3 million short..." it tells me right away that they didn't bother actually researching the issue and are just rehashing what they heard elsewhere.

2) The pull tabs are set up pretty poorly anyway, which I think is causing the poor adoption. Paper pull tabs have much better odds for the small prizes. Plus, you cannot look into a big bucket and estimate your odds at any of the remaining prizes based on the number of tabs left. There is no visible "bucket" for electronic pull tabs. Finally, people like the feel of pulling open paper tabs. All of these things doomed the electronic pull tabs almost from the start.

3) Most people - not all, but most - realized from the start that the pull tabs wouldn't cover it. That is why there were "blink on" financing options included in the bill, including a sports themed lottery and a 10% tax of luxury seats. There were a lot more blink on financing options included in the original bill, but many of them got cut in committee. Including the smartest one, a tax on hotels and rental cars.

The sky is not falling, despite what some columnists who are too lazy to do any real legwork might think...


Nope, not going to do it. I did read the article but the new PF is going to toe the company line. It's all good.

VikesfaninWis
04-03-2013, 03:32 PM
Nobody will ever be happy about the new stadium, stories bashing it will come up long after the thing is built and played in for many years.

Minniman
04-04-2013, 07:23 PM
Jeff Johnson, of Plymouth, is a member of the Hennepin County Board and is Minnesota’s Republican National Committeeman.
An RNC article; who would have known? :think:

In any case, pull tabs were a bad idea. Gambling for revenue, in general, is a bad idea. Did anyone actually think that would work? It is laughable.

If the author doesn't like the idea of a "state-run health insurance exchange" then perhaps he should have supported cutting out the middle man completely like all other modern industrialized countries do. Not to worry, the huge hospital chains are going to muscle out the insurance companies in the next decade anyway, but that will be no better for taxpayers, businesses, and individuals, as it will create healthcare trusts.

If this was posted in another area, I could elaborate, but not in here.

singersp
04-05-2013, 08:16 AM
Delay Vikings stadium construction?

BBAO: Delay Vikings stadium construction? - NFC North Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/54916/bbao-delay-vikings-stadium-construction)

VikesfaninWis
04-05-2013, 03:18 PM
Delay Vikings stadium construction?

BBAO: Delay Vikings stadium construction? - NFC North Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/54916/bbao-delay-vikings-stadium-construction)

I am so glad that I don't live in Minnesota and have to deal with stupid political bullshit. As much as I hate the Packers, they do it right here in Green Bay when it comes to the stadium. The tax that was installed to pay for the renovations worked out well for the people here even though some balked at it. They also sell Packers "stock" to help pay for renovations, and that is the money they are using for this next project they are about to start. They have a beautiful stadium to show for it, and it is very fan friendly as far as how it is set up, and tailgating.

singersp
04-09-2013, 07:43 AM
Racino proposed as answer for Vikings stadium and budget

Racino proposed as answer for Vikings stadium and budget | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/201946381.html)

singersp
04-09-2013, 07:45 AM
DFLer eyes pro sports gear tax for Vikings stadium

Read more: DFLer eyes pro sports gear tax for Vikings stadium - SFGate (http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/DFLer-eyes-pro-sports-gear-tax-for-Vikings-stadium-4418551.php#ixzz2PxwUKeF5)

Purple Floyd
04-09-2013, 08:02 AM
Maybe they were reading reports like this one:


When the people of Miami-Dade go to the polls, we are confident they will support this partnership, where the Dolphins will pay approximately 70 percent costs, will repay approximately $167 million to the state and county, will pay for 100 percent of any cost overruns during construction, and will be committed to staying in Miami-Dade for the next 30 years.




The Dolphins got screwed on this negotiation and hopefully nobody in Minnesota get the idea to try to reno a more than fair deal.

Reignman
04-09-2013, 09:05 AM
Until I see an article that says the new stadium is off or canceled I'm not going to worry about it lol. Is that even possible at this point? *knock on wood* How many times have I said that during a game only to then see it happen? It's amazing how nothing can go smooth or stress free with this franchise.

VikesfaninWis
04-09-2013, 03:39 PM
Until I see an article that says the new stadium is off or canceled I'm not going to worry about it lol. Is that even possible at this point? *knock on wood* How many times have I said that during a game only to then see it happen? It's amazing how nothing can go smooth or stress free with this franchise.


If that happened, Minnesota can forget about ever having a professional football team in that state again. So many ups and downs over the past 12 years with this damn stadium issue, and the whole will they or won't they go to LA bullshit. If they scrapped the stadium, Minnesota is done having a football team as soon as the Vikings pack up and head somewhere else.

Minniman
04-09-2013, 06:25 PM
The Dolphins got screwed on this negotiation and hopefully nobody in Minnesota get the idea to try to reno a more than fair deal.

The Dolphins did not get screwed; the people of Miami-Dade just did not.

The NFL is a monopoly. Just because the teams do not always get shake-down deals, like Minnesota received, does not mean the NFL somehow got screwed.

The NFL violates Sherman and RICO laws aplenty. Even when they lost in court to the USFL, the jury was kind enough to award a $1 settlement.

NodakPaul
04-09-2013, 07:53 PM
Until I see an article that says the new stadium is off or canceled I'm not going to worry about it lol. Is that even possible at this point? *knock on wood* How many times have I said that during a game only to then see it happen? It's amazing how nothing can go smooth or stress free with this franchise.

The stadium is not going to get cancelled or delayed. Doing so would open up a HUGE can of legal worms, especially with the Vikings already putting $50 million into the pot to get things going. If the state were to try to drop the stadium or even delay it, they would be open to litigation from the Vikings and NFL over lost revenue and lost opportunity cost. Even stadium opponents admitted that the stadium is a done deal, they just don't have faith in the financing plan, and want to have it resolved ASAP. I agree with them in that aspect.

VikesfaninWis
04-10-2013, 01:45 PM
I don't know for sure if they do or don't have them, but what about Viking license plates? The Packers and Brewers both have them in Wisconsin, and it goes over well. If it goes over for the Brewers, it will go over great for the Vikings. It obviously goes great for GB, because that is the only thing in Wisconsin that fans can boast about. All their other teams suck.

singersp
04-11-2013, 07:16 AM
State seeking Plan B for e-pulltabs, Vikings stadium funding

State seeking Plan B for e-pulltabs, Vikings stadium funding | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/202441721.html)

singersp
04-11-2013, 07:25 AM
Stadium backup financing bill opposed by Vikings, other pro sports teams

Stadium backup financing bill opposed by Vikings, other pro sports teams - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22993552/backup-vikings-stadium-tax-plan-be-heard-househttp://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22993552/backup-vikings-stadium-tax-plan-be-heard-house)

Purple Floyd
04-11-2013, 07:37 AM
So they projected 35 million and only got 1.7 million dollars? That's not that bad really.

The two best ways to close this gap would be to just pull the rest out of the general fund since the team is a cash cow for the state anyway or put up one way toll bridges and tax the sconnies who come across the border to work in a state with better jobs and better pay. All the way from Winona to Duluth.

VikesfaninWis
04-11-2013, 02:57 PM
So they projected 35 million and only got 1.7 million dollars? That's not that bad really.

The two best ways to close this gap would be to just pull the rest out of the general fund since the team is a cash cow for the state anyway or put up one way toll bridges and tax the sconnies who come across the border to work in a state with better jobs and better pay. All the way from Winona to Duluth.


I think the option of Vikings license plates would be the way to go. They would generate a lot of money off that, plus I believe the renewal each year is apart of that fee the state gets to use towards their share of the new stadium. Thus, they will be bringing in money long after the stadium is paid in full.

Purple Floyd
04-11-2013, 07:07 PM
I doubt the license plates would generate much revenue for the stadium. Look, I know it works in Wisconsin but face it- You could spray paint this mornings dump with green and gold paint and some Packers fan would buy it. The vikings fans are more close to the vest overall and while some people will certainly fill up six pages of a thread debating the stripes on a jersey collar, there just isn't the overall volume of demand from Vikings fans for the plate thing to make sense.

VikesfaninWis
04-11-2013, 07:18 PM
I doubt the license plates would generate much revenue for the stadium. Look, I know it works in Wisconsin but face it- You could spray paint this mornings dump with green and gold paint and some Packers fan would buy it. The vikings fans are more close to the vest overall and while some people will certainly fill up six pages of a thread debating the stripes on a jersey collar, there just isn't the overall volume of demand from Vikings fans for the plate thing to make sense.

It works for the Brewers as well, and the Brewers aren't nearly as over here in Wisconsin as the Packers are. Remember, fans of Wisconsin teams only like the teams that are winning.

Purple Floyd
04-11-2013, 08:58 PM
It still wouldn't work here. Just a different culture. I understand what you are getting at but it's just not the same.

Purple Floyd
04-11-2013, 10:50 PM
The Atlanta deal:
Y! SPORTS (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/not-atlanta-getting-football-stadium-183726903--nfl.html)

But if the city of Atlanta doesn't necessarily need a new dome, at least it won't be paying the entire bill for its billion-plus-dollar construction. The Georgia World Congress Center Authority, which will own and manage the new dome, has arranged a deal wherein the Falcons will pay 70 percent of the cost, with the remainder being raised by a hotel-motel tax on out-of-towners. It's a solution that keeps the majority of the weight of the stadium's financing off the backs of the public, one which the citizens of Miami would envy (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/jokes-aside-marlins-park-great-thing-baseball-fans-171352003.html).Thing is, the Falcons won't be paying 70 percent of the cost without expecting a return on its investment, meaning that Falcons fans can expect to pay more for everything from concessions to parking to those lovely Personal Seat Licenses that force fans to demonstrate their loyalty with check after high-figure check. And you could argue that the $300 million the city of Atlanta will spend, via tax revenue, on the new dome could be better spent pretty much anywhere else, but social concerns are no match for the NFL.
Bottom line, as these deals go, this is a reasonable one for the city of Atlanta, which stood to lose the Falcons to a northern suburb if it didn't make this move. And the Falcons will be obligated to the new facility for another 30 years past 2017. Any bets on if they'll still be in that facility come 2047? Didn't think so.

VikesfaninWis
04-11-2013, 11:08 PM
It still wouldn't work here. Just a different culture. I understand what you are getting at but it's just not the same.

I hear ya.

VikesfaninWis
04-13-2013, 04:39 PM
Can't wait to see what its going to look like.

Vikings will unveil new stadium design next month | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/13/vikings-will-unveil-new-stadium-design-next-month/)