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MulletMullitia
03-23-2013, 07:28 PM
For those interested, here is a break down of the current cap situation Post-Jennings.

Scout.com: Vikings avoiding much (http://min.scout.com/2/1277314.html)


The Vikings have just over $5.1 million in salary cap room. With two first-round picks and 11 draft picks overall (currently), that won’t leave much room for them to add much more in free agency.

Despite arranging the contract of their most significant free agent signing, Greg Jennings, to go easy on this year’s salary cap, resigning six of their unrestricted free agents and adding Jennings and Matt Cassel in outside free agency put $21.8 million against the 2013 cap. Their actual cash outlay for those eight players was $37.2 this year, meaning more than $15 million was pushed into future years.

The contracts of Jennings and right tackle Phil Loadholt were the biggest culprits. Jennings counts only $5 million against this year’s cap despite a $13 million cash value – $3 million in salary and workout incentives and $10 million in signing bonus. Loadholt counts $4.75 million against the cap this year, despite a $10 million cash outlay.

Most of the Vikings’ other signings match up when comparing cap charge to cash value in the first year. Cassel’s contract is $3.7 million on both ends, and Jerome Simpson’s is $2.1 million on each. FB Jerome Felton counts $1.67 million against the cap with $3 million in first-year cash outlay, and S Jamarca Sanford ($2.25 million against the cap) and LB Erin Henderson ($1.75 against the cap) have only a $250,000 difference in cap charge and actual first-year cash outlay.

We have less than 2M to play with after draft pick signings. That probably rules out Urlacher unless we can get Kevin Williams to restructure. Looking more and more like our starting linebacker next year will be one of Arthur Brown, Manti Te'o, or Alec Ogletree.

PackSux!
03-23-2013, 08:57 PM
For those interested, here is a break down of the current cap situation Post-Jennings.

Scout.com: Vikings avoiding much (http://min.scout.com/2/1277314.html)



We have less than 2M to play with after draft pick signings. That probably rules out Urlacher unless we can get Kevin Williams to restructure. Looking more and more like our starting linebacker next year will be one of Arthur Brown, Manti Te'o, or Alec Ogletree.

We need Allen to restructure more than Williams. I do hope that one of our first round picks this draft is a linebacker that can play the middle.

vikinggreg
03-23-2013, 10:05 PM
Veterans for hire: Plenty of talent available (http://min.scout.com/2/1277215.html)

With the list of names out there it almost seems like there could be 2 more roster filled in the league with these guys and a draft


The Vikings have taken on the organizational philosophy under Rick Spielman to build the team through the draft. It isn’t original. Some of the best franchises in the league have used the draft as almost the exclusive route of building their franchise – Baltimore, Green Bay, Pittsburgh and New England to name a few

Yet the Ravens and Steelers are now losing key players from their rosters and based on the Flacco contract the Packers might have their own issues in the near future

Aaron Rodgers' New Contract: Speculation Says $100 Million Over 4 Years (http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2013/3/19/4124874/aaron-rodgers-contract-speculation-4-years-100-million)

and with Jay Cutler in the last year of his contract the Vikings youth movement could have them in a balanced spot.......since we don't have an elite QB :think:

Purple Floyd
03-24-2013, 07:53 PM
Wit the price of the elite QB's getting so skewed from the average it seems to me that their prices may be getting to the point where they are beginning to harm the financial health of the teams much in the same way that the first pick in the draft was starting to hurt teams prior to the new CBA. Obviously you are generally working with a known quantity with the veteran QB;s compared to the shot in the dark teams were taking with picks like Jamarcus Russell but still, when a QB starts to command 25 million of cap space then somewhere on the roster something has to give.

So are the Vikings going to actually hit on something by having a QB at the middle of the pack with a lower salary when he hits his second contract where they have more room to build depth across the roster than the other teams in the division who tie all their dollars up one one player?

marshallvike
03-25-2013, 08:55 AM
We need Allen to restructure more than Williams. I do hope that one of our first round picks this draft is a linebacker that can play the middle.

I am not understanding that one. Jared is making an unbelievable amount of money this year. Don't get me wrong, I believe he is an elite talent, but for his money we could get a Dumerville, a corner and have some money left to play with. Unless the idea is to let him play out this year and go on his merry way, I don't understand it. His is a contract that would benefit us greatly to restructure, unless he is not in our long term plans and the FO does not want to be strapped with dead money down the road. Personally,I think he has a few years left and would like for him to remain in purple, but that is not how this is laying out. Hopefully they have something better in mind that I am not seeing.

vikinggreg
03-25-2013, 09:24 AM
I am not understanding that one. Jared is making an unbelievable amount of money this year. Don't get me wrong, I believe he is an elite talent, but for his money we could get a Dumerville, a corner and have some money left to play with. Unless the idea is to let him play out this year and go on his merry way, I don't understand it. His is a contract that would benefit us greatly to restructure, unless he is not in our long term plans and the FO does not want to be strapped with dead money down the road. Personally,I think he has a few years left and would like for him to remain in purple, but that is not how this is laying out. Hopefully they have something better in mind that I am not seeing.

I think it just comes down to Jared hasn't had a offer big enough to get him to loosen his grip on the 17 mill he's getting, next year the team could use the fanchise tag to keep Allen and then work out an extension, tag would be in the 10 mill range

marshallvike
03-25-2013, 10:19 AM
I think it just comes down to Jared hasn't had a offer big enough to get him to loosen his grip on the 17 mill he's getting, next year the team could use the fanchise tag to keep Allen and then work out an extension, tag would be in the 10 mill range

I can see that. I would have a little trouble giving up a $17mill contract myself. Although it would really help the team, I do not think he is obligated to do it. As talented as he is, even $10mill seems too high a price to pay. Both he and his agent have to see the market will probably no longer pay huge money to a player his age, even if he has another monster year this year. Then again, a long term contract does not mean much if you can be cut any time. Too bad it can't be worked out now. We could really benefit from some extra money to pick up a corner or two. The past few years, drafting an outstanding corner just means he would demand huge money and leave your team for more, so picking up one through free agency may be the best route on CB's.

tastywaves
03-25-2013, 12:06 PM
I can see that. I would have a little trouble giving up a $17mill contract myself. Although it would really help the team, I do not think he is obligated to do it. As talented as he is, even $10mill seems too high a price to pay. Both he and his agent have to see the market will probably no longer pay huge money to a player his age, even if he has another monster year this year. Then again, a long term contract does not mean much if you can be cut any time. Too bad it can't be worked out now. We could really benefit from some extra money to pick up a corner or two. The past few years, drafting an outstanding corner just means he would demand huge money and leave your team for more, so picking up one through free agency may be the best route on CB's.

It's the best route until they play well and then they demand more money :)

It's a vicious cycle no matter how you want to try and get your head around it. In the end, you want to pay a player in accordance with this value and build the best roster that $123M can get you. You also have to look at player contracts over the life of the contract and not just in isolation for a given year as it is skewed by the structuring. Such as Jared.

I think the Vikings FO looks at spending by position and then tries to fill in the players to fit the budget. A few contracts like Jared and AD are a bit high and will steal from other positions. If you look at where this team spends their money, you see they value DL, OL and RB as the highest positions. Which means they have to be value oriented to fill the other positions. Draft is the #1 source for this talent along with mid-talent FA's. With the dropping of Winfield, it makes sense that they would want to replace him with another FA for a reasonable amount. JA's contract may prevent a big signing for another year, but don't be surprised to see us bring in a number of vet corner's to compete for a starting role this year. There is still the possibility that JA will get cut if they deem restructuring is not the way to go.

mountainviking
03-25-2013, 12:58 PM
Coming off a hit-or-miss season, Allen is due a whopping $14.3 million in 2013, and will count more than $17 million against the cap

On April 22, 2008, the Chiefs traded Allen to the Minnesota Vikings in exchange for a first-round pick, which they used to select OT Branden Albert, and two third-round picks, one of which was used to take Jamaal Charles, and swapped sixth-round picks in the 2008 NFL Draft. The Vikings then signed Allen to a six-year contract, which at the time was the richest contract for a defensive player in NFL history.[13] Allen was due an $8 million roster bonus in 2010, per the six-year, US$72.36 million contract he signed with the Vikings, and his signing bonus was $15.5 million.

Jared Allen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Allen#Minnesota_Vikings)

So his signing bonus over 6 years isn't that much...roughly 2.6 mil/year. The majority of the contract is base pay this year, 14.3 million. That's a lot for a DE, but partially earned in earlier years. You would think we could give him a 2 year extension that changed most of that figure to a signing bonus, dividing it out over 3 years. Problem is tho, it only helps us this year, as the following years he's still going to want a big paycheck and now we're still paying for the bonus we paid in 2013. Basically, sure, we can get his number this year down to 5 or 6, but the following 2 years it'll likely be back up at 15-17.

I think we can forget about the franchise tag, pretty sure he'd get either the average of the top 5 salaries, OR a raise of at least ?20?% set by CBA, whichever is greater. Please correct me if I'm wrong there...?

tastywaves
03-25-2013, 01:30 PM
Jared Allen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Allen#Minnesota_Vikings)

So his signing bonus over 6 years isn't that much...roughly 2.6 mil/year. The majority of the contract is base pay this year, 14.3 million. That's a lot for a DE, but partially earned in earlier years. You would think we could give him a 2 year extension that changed most of that figure to a signing bonus, dividing it out over 3 years. Problem is tho, it only helps us this year, as the following years he's still going to want a big paycheck and now we're still paying for the bonus we paid in 2013. Basically, sure, we can get his number this year down to 5 or 6, but the following 2 years it'll likely be back up at 15-17.

I think we can forget about the franchise tag, pretty sure he'd get either the average of the top 5 salaries, OR a raise of at least ?20?% set by CBA, whichever is greater. Please correct me if I'm wrong there...?

I think you captured well why this is a difficult situation to address.

vikinggreg
03-25-2013, 06:22 PM
Jared Allen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Allen#Minnesota_Vikings)

So his signing bonus over 6 years isn't that much...roughly 2.6 mil/year. The majority of the contract is base pay this year, 14.3 million. That's a lot for a DE, but partially earned in earlier years. You would think we could give him a 2 year extension that changed most of that figure to a signing bonus, dividing it out over 3 years. Problem is tho, it only helps us this year, as the following years he's still going to want a big paycheck and now we're still paying for the bonus we paid in 2013. Basically, sure, we can get his number this year down to 5 or 6, but the following 2 years it'll likely be back up at 15-17.

I think we can forget about the franchise tag, pretty sure he'd get either the average of the top 5 salaries, OR a raise of at least ?20?% set by CBA, whichever is greater. Please correct me if I'm wrong there...?

I forgot about that, so the going rate for a tag DE could be around 10 mill but for Jared its just over 17 mill... eck

Minniman
03-26-2013, 09:45 PM
I forgot about that, so the going rate for a tag DE could be around 10 mill but for Jared its just over 17 mill ... eck
Never agree to a trade unless the player is signed first.

The Vikings really messed up the way they did that trade and contract. Both Allen and the Chiefs had added leverage because the Vikings brain-trust did not know what order this kind of thing needs to be done in to keep the price reasonable.

VikesfaninWis
03-28-2013, 07:40 PM
I strongly believe that something will be worked out with either Kevin Williams, Allen, or very well both of them before the draft. DT is deep this year in the draft, and we have guys currently on the team that can start if need be, so K-Will will have to think long and hard if approached, and I think Allen will be extended a few more years and that will free up some money for this year. They have to do something obviously.

jmcdon00
03-28-2013, 08:06 PM
Never agree to a trade unless the player is signed first.

The Vikings really messed up the way they did that trade and contract. Both Allen and the Chiefs had added leverage because the Vikings brain-trust did not know what order this kind of thing needs to be done in to keep the price reasonable.
Worth every penny. He's averaged over 15 sacks a season, and has not missed a game. The Vikings went to the playoffs in 3 of the 5 seasons since we signed him.

singersp
03-29-2013, 08:46 AM
Worth every penny. He's averaged over 15 sacks a season, and has not missed a game. The Vikings went to the playoffs in 3 of the 5 seasons since we signed him.

That's not true. He's averaged less than 15 sacks per season. In the 5 years he's been with us he's had more than 15 sacks in a year only once.

Purple Floyd
03-30-2013, 12:24 AM
That's not true. He's averaged less than 15 sacks per season. In the 5 years he's been with us he's had more than 15 sacks in a year only once.

He said averaged. Yeah, the math says 74 sacks in 5 years is only 14.8 per year so make sure you point out how wrong he is for rounding the .2 a year up.

At any rate at 14.8 or 15.1 I would say he has been valuable to the team. Not sure anyone is ever worth multi millions for anything but if they are then he is one of them.

Actually scratch that. He has 4 post season sacks which brings his total to 78 and dividing that by 5 years you get 15.6 average per year. So that means he was right and you don't even need to split hairs or round up to get there.

singersp
03-30-2013, 08:45 AM
He said averaged. Yeah, the math says 74 sacks in 5 years is only 14.8 per year so make sure you point out how wrong he is for rounding the .2 a year up.

He said averaged OVER. If you go by the regular season totals of 74 sacks, 14.8 is not over. Simply pointing that out & also that he only did that once as the 22 sack total year skewed the averages for the remaining four.

Purple Floyd
03-30-2013, 09:41 AM
But he also played in the postseason and this sacks count. That puts him at 15.6 average.

Even nitpicking a .2 discrepancy in a fan forum is really just being a dick more than proving any point. But doing it and not even using all his sacks( because he did say a year and unless something changed the playoffs still happen somewhere during the calendar year) just plain looks like you either forgot to look or you knew but it shot your post in the ass so you purposely left it out in order to try to validate your position. And that failed.

singersp
03-31-2013, 10:47 AM
But he also played in the postseason and this sacks count. That puts him at 15.6 average.

Even nitpicking a .2 discrepancy in a fan forum is really just being a dick more than proving any point. But doing it and not even using all his sacks( because he did say a year and unless something changed the playoffs still happen somewhere during the calendar year) just plain looks like you either forgot to look or you knew but it shot your post in the ass so you purposely left it out in order to try to validate your position. And that failed.

First off, I was merely pointing it out that is was under, not over 15. Not really a big deal. Generally, when talking about a players stats and season averages, it doesn't include post season games.

When talking about AD's rushing season last year, most if not all people will tell you that he was 9 yards shy of breaking Dickerson's single season rushing record of 2,105 yards with 2,097.

I don't recall you quickly piping in & pointing out how wrong they were because they didn't include post season games stats which would have put AD at 2,196, 17 yards shy of breaking Dickerson's 2,212 season. So either you forgot that both played in post season games or you chose not to be anal that time & weave post stats into the yearly stats.

NodakPaul
03-31-2013, 03:20 PM
First off, I was merely pointing it out that is was under, not over 15. Not really a big deal. Generally, when talking about a players stats and season averages, it doesn't include post season games.

When talking about AD's rushing season last year, most if not all people will tell you that he was 9 yards shy of breaking Dickerson's single season rushing record of 2,105 yards with 2,097.

I don't recall you quickly piping in & pointing out how wrong they were because they didn't include post season games stats which would have put AD at 2,196, 17 yards shy of breaking Dickerson's 2,212 season. So either you forgot that both played in post season games or you chose not to be anal that time & weave post stats into the yearly stats.

Lmao

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34758584.jpg

jargomcfargo
03-31-2013, 05:14 PM
Lmao

Probably not easy to be an anal yes man. Good thing he's not a negative Nancy !

Purple Floyd
03-31-2013, 07:41 PM
I don't recall you quickly piping in & pointing out how wrong they were because they didn't include post season games stats which would have put AD at 2,196, 17 yards shy of breaking Dickerson's 2,212 season. So either you forgot that both played in post season games or you chose not to be anal that time & weave post stats into the yearly stats.
Probably because they weren't sounding like a dink and nitpicking the numbers when they posted it like you are.
Ahh, screw it. Since probably my first post on this site you have been pouncing on fans for crap just like you did in this thread and for too long I pretty much lowered myself to that same petty level. It's time to get back to enjoying the team and the game and sharing that joy with the rest of the fans who feel the same. I kinda like the yes man role and from this point forward will only have a problem with those who get in the way f us who just want to enjoy the team.

singersp
04-01-2013, 08:03 AM
Probably because they weren't sounding like a dink and nitpicking the numbers when they posted it like you are.
Ahh, screw it. Since probably my first post on this site you have been pouncing on fans for crap just like you did in this thread and for too long I pretty much lowered myself to that same petty level. It's time to get back to enjoying the team and the game and sharing that joy with the rest of the fans who feel the same. I kinda like the yes man role and from this point forward will only have a problem with those who get in the way f us who just want to enjoy the team.

No, since your first post on this site, I've typically been the one constantly pounced on.

I simply stated that JA didn't average OVER 15 yards per season (meaning regular season) & that it was under without making a big deal out of it. You're the one pouncing all over my comment, making a federal case out of it & blowing in up to be a much bigger deal than what it was. The difference is, I wasn't trying to be a dink, but you were. Now you're trying to blame me for yourself being so petty & nit-picky for years.