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singersp
02-27-2013, 06:04 AM
Report: Vikings Scheduled To Meet With Steve Breaston

Report: Vikings Scheduled To Meet With Steve Breaston - Daily Norseman (http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/2/26/4033678/vikings-scheduled-to-meet-with-steve-breaston)

digital420
02-27-2013, 08:16 AM
could be competition for one of our needing upgrade WR group.. though i don't see him being a star. he seems to at least be able to catch!

DiGiTaL

NodakPaul
02-27-2013, 08:35 AM
He had a few promising years before completely disappearing last year. Anyone know what happened to him?

Anyway, he fits the mold for what I am expecting this year. Young, not commanding a huge contract, lot of potential but not proven. Whether we like it or not, that is the type of FA we are going to be bringing in under Spielman. His goal is to build through the draft and supplement the players with low price FAs, sometimes finding a diamond in the rough like Felton.

If we addressed WR early in the draft, I could see a WR corp of Beaston, Wright, rookie, and maybe Harvin. That would be an improvement.

mountainviking
02-27-2013, 09:12 AM
I don't think that is just Spielman's general game plan, but a result of how close we are to the salary cap and the fact that it isn't growing like it used to...and how many high priced vets we do still have around. Allen, KWill, Peterson, Greenway & Winfield are currently set to eat about $54.5 million of our cap space...or, roughly 44%. That leaves 56% of our salary cap for the other 47 players. Which, obviously, limits what we can spend where. And, that is with us getting a deal for young guys like Kalil, Rudolf, and perhaps Ponder at the moment.

And, my assumption that we would resign the two obvous choices in Felton and Loadholt has slipped into more of a hope. Last thing we need to do is add RT to our list of draft needs. But those two guys alone will likely carry a cap hit of over 10 mil/year, narrowing our space to another bargain basement free agency period. In short, to improve, we have to have a good draft!

Edit: OH, and back to Breaston...he's a good complimentary receiver, but far from a no.1 option or a deep threat.
IF we sign him, it may be a sign we are backing up our slot options for life after Percy...

kevoncox
02-27-2013, 09:42 AM
Dumpster diving again. I love thrash. Our GM hasn't realize that an Allen extension would clear up about another 8 million in cap along with a KW extension would add about another 4 million in cap. Cutting the bum Carlson would clear another 5 million in cap. The reason we are close to the cap is because we have a bunch of junk contracts eatting up our cap. While other teams are getting ready to remedy the problem. We are going to dumpster dive and then clear the cap. Clear the cap, bring in a talented FA and front load their contact with a signing/roster bonus this year when you handle in house. We have all these FAs and we aren't signing them. Keep telling me that our idiot GM knows what he is doing as we continually field the worst WR corps in the lead. Its so pathetic that Breaston instantly becomes our 2nd best WR. SMFH

NodakPaul
02-27-2013, 09:50 AM
I don't think that is just Spielman's general game plan, but a result of how close we are to the salary cap and the fact that it isn't growing like it used to...and how many high priced vets we do still have around. Allen, KWill, Peterson, Greenway & Winfield are currently set to eat about $54.5 million of our cap space...or, roughly 44%. That leaves 56% of our salary cap for the other 47 players. Which, obviously, limits what we can spend where. And, that is with us getting a deal for young guys like Kalil, Rudolf, and perhaps Ponder at the moment.

And, my assumption that we would resign the two obvous choices in Felton and Loadholt has slipped into more of a hope. Last thing we need to do is add RT to our list of draft needs. But those two guys alone will likely carry a cap hit of over 10 mil/year, narrowing our space to another bargain basement free agency period. In short, to improve, we have to have a good draft!

Edit: OH, and back to Breaston...he's a good complimentary receiver, but far from a no.1 option or a deep threat.
IF we sign him, it may be a sign we are backing up our slot options for life after Percy...

IDK, we actually aren't in cap hell, and there is a lot of wiggle room for us to work some contracts to make it even better. Spielman said that was our main goal in an interview with PA. He said that making big splashes in FA to pick up aging veterans is not on the Vikings agenda.

I think they would make a splash for a younger player if there is one available, but we won't be bringing in anyone out of their second contract.

Randy Moss
02-27-2013, 09:58 AM
Percy, #1 Pick, Simpson, Breaston, Wright, sounds like it could be a decent receiving corps to me. Although we would be seriously undersized, so we would probably have to keep Jenkins or someone similar around.
Breaston is a good player who has put up decent numbers in the past. I think he'd be a good pickup. They aren't going to sign a top FA wide receiver when they're planning on drafting one. Breaston is about the best you can get without breaking the bank.

NodakPaul
02-27-2013, 10:17 AM
Dumpster diving again. I love thrash. Our GM hasn't realize that an Allen extension would clear up about another 8 million in cap along with a KW extension would add about another 4 million in cap. Cutting the bum Carlson would clear another 5 million in cap. The reason we are close to the cap is because we have a bunch of junk contracts eatting up our cap. While other teams are getting ready to remedy the problem. We are going to dumpster dive and then clear the cap. Clear the cap, bring in a talented FA and front load their contact with a signing/roster bonus this year when you handle in house. We have all these FAs and we aren't signing them. Keep telling me that our idiot GM knows what he is doing as we continually field the worst WR corps in the lead. Its so pathetic that Breaston instantly becomes our 2nd best WR. SMFH

You need to brush up on your salary cap math.

Cutting Carlson would NOT clear $5 million in cap. In fact, we would take a $4 million dollar cap hit because any unamoratized bonus money is immediately counted against the cap, although if he were cut after June 1 it could be spread out over two seasons. He is due $2.9 million this season, with $1.2 million being guaranteed if he is on the roster come June 1. So if we cut him BEFORE June 1 we would be taking a $4 million cap hit in order to save $2.9 million in salary. If we cut him AFTER June 1 we would have paid him $1.2 million, taken the remaining $2.8 million in cap hit spread out over 2 years. In this case we will have taken a $2.6 million cap hit this year and a $1.4 million cap hit NEXT year to save $1.7 million in salary.

The best thing we can do with Carlson in terms of cap space is to retain him on the roster this year. His salary will only count $2.9 million against the cap this year. Next year if he still sucks major eggs, he will be an easy cap causality, because the cap hit for cutting him will only be $2.8 million when he is due $3.9 million in salary.

There are workout bonuses too that I didn't figure into the equation, but that would only make the cap hits higher. I think his workout bonuses are $100k.

You are pretty far off on the Allen and KW extension math too. Yes, we could rework their contracts to free up some cap space - not $12 million, but still a decent amount. Both KW and Allen's cap impacts have their original signing bonuses included. Reworking a contract will allow you to reduce current year salary and prorate a new signing bonus across the length of the contract, but the original signing bonus allocation is retained.

And finally, the Vikings have plenty of cap space. We are sitting right under $12 million right now, which is in the top 10 or 11 of teams in terms of how much cap space is currently available. At this point in the offseason, that is a pretty healthy spot to be.

There is a lot more that goes into FA and contracts that many don't see or know, and yet are quick to criticize or call Spielman an idiot because they are convinced that they know how to clear $17 million in cap space that Spielman some how missed...

tastywaves
02-27-2013, 10:21 AM
Dumpster diving again. I love thrash. Our GM hasn't realize that an Allen extension would clear up about another 8 million in cap along with a KW extension would add about another 4 million in cap. Cutting the bum Carlson would clear another 5 million in cap. The reason we are close to the cap is because we have a bunch of junk contracts eatting up our cap. While other teams are getting ready to remedy the problem. We are going to dumpster dive and then clear the cap. Clear the cap, bring in a talented FA and front load their contact with a signing/roster bonus this year when you handle in house. We have all these FAs and we aren't signing them. Keep telling me that our idiot GM knows what he is doing as we continually field the worst WR corps in the lead. Its so pathetic that Breaston instantly becomes our 2nd best WR. SMFH

Cutting Carlson would create more of a cap hit then keeping him. His signing bonus of $5M will accelerate and the remaining $4M will go against the cap. Plus as I understand it, he has an additional $1.2M of his 2013 base salary guaranteed creating a total cap hit of $5.2M. Keeping him on the roster is a $4M cap hit. $2.9M base, $1m signing bonus and $100k workout incentive. Plus you need to add the cost of his replacement. Like it or not, Carlson has at least one more year on the roster.

In terms of KW, JA restructuring their contracts. I guarantee you the discussions are happening. KW seems more likely as he has already indicated that he was willing to look at it. JA is a bit trickier and they could probably pull something off with him but that would most likely mean a longer term commitment to him that is still significantly large. He might be a guy that you let ride out his last year and then test the FA market.

I think our idiot GM knows a lot more about the cap then your giving him credit.

If Breaston comes in, it will no doubt be a fairly small contract and probably a minimal commitment. Another Simpson like contract. He will compete to make the team and add depth. And like you said, he probably moves up to #2 or #3 on current roster. This news is hardly worth going crazy over. Draft a WR in rounds 1 or 2, keep Harvin, throw Simpson and a guy like Breaston in the mix, dump guys like Aroma, Burton and Jenkins and you have an improved WR roster that still allows you to make other signings.

It's not the all diva WR corps many are hoping for, but I'm not sure we would know what to do with them if we did get them.

NodakPaul
02-27-2013, 10:27 AM
Percy, #1 Pick, Simpson, Breaston, Wright, sounds like it could be a decent receiving corps to me. Although we would be seriously undersized, so we would probably have to keep Jenkins or someone similar around.
Breaston is a good player who has put up decent numbers in the past. I think he'd be a good pickup. They aren't going to sign a top FA wide receiver when they're planning on drafting one. Breaston is about the best you can get without breaking the bank.

That would be decent, although you are right, we would be undersized. In this instance we would really need to pick up a big WR in the draft. Obviously we would be targeting Cordarrelle Patterson or Keenan Allen in the draft. I doubt Patterson will be there at 23, but Allen should be.

Another WR I really like is Justin Hunter. He is huge (6'4") and has a big vertical. And he should still be there in the second round when the Vikings pick. If Patterson is gone in round 1, I would consider skipping Allen and going for a MLB instead, and then targeting Hunter in round 2.

tastywaves
02-27-2013, 10:38 AM
That would be decent, although you are right, we would be undersized. In this instance we would really need to pick up a big WR in the draft. Obviously we would be targeting Cordarrelle Patterson or Keenan Allen in the draft. I doubt Patterson will be there at 23, but Allen should be.

Another WR I really like is Justin Hunter. He is huge (6'4") and has a big vertical. And he should still be there in the second round when the Vikings pick. If Patterson is gone in round 1, I would consider skipping Allen and going for a MLB instead, and then targeting Hunter in round 2.

I see you and Randy both covered everything I put in my post, need to refresh my coffee.

There are a lot of good WR's that should be worthy of our 1st or 2nd round picks. Hopefully that is a priority, the right guy is there and we should see a much improved WR corps.

mountainviking
02-27-2013, 12:17 PM
And finally, the Vikings have plenty of cap space. We are sitting right under $12 million right now, which is in the top 10 or 11 of teams in terms of how much cap space is currently available. At this point in the offseason, that is a pretty healthy spot to be.


But that is without resigning any of our guys either. I'm guessing that just signing Loadholt and Felton to extensions will eat about 10 mill worth of space and we haven't even talked about our draft picks yet. The way I see it, the lower cap is a bit tight for most of the NFL, except a few extra shitty teams like the Browns and Phins who have 40 mill worth of room, but need to fill many, many, many holes.

And I'm not promoting signing aging vets by any means, just saying, we don't have the space available to bring in a guy on a Pierre Garcon or Vincent Jackson type contract. I like that we focus our FA signings on guys coming off of their 1st contracts who still have potential to improve...it's the only way to go! Unless, maybe, you are a playoff team that really, truly believes you are one player away. Like, perhaps, the Pack with Reggie White.

Purple Floyd
02-27-2013, 07:48 PM
Meh, not that exciting. Seems to be about what we could get from Simpson. I would rather pass.

kevoncox
02-27-2013, 08:30 PM
You need to brush up on your salary cap math.

Cutting Carlson would NOT clear $5 million in cap. In fact, we would take a $4 million dollar cap hit because any unamoratized bonus money is immediately counted against the cap, although if he were cut after June 1 it could be spread out over two seasons. He is due $2.9 million this season, with $1.2 million being guaranteed if he is on the roster come June 1. So if we cut him BEFORE June 1 we would be taking a $4 million cap hit in order to save $2.9 million in salary. If we cut him AFTER June 1 we would have paid him $1.2 million, taken the remaining $2.8 million in cap hit spread out over 2 years. In this case we will have taken a $2.6 million cap hit this year and a $1.4 million cap hit NEXT year to save $1.7 million in salary.

The best thing we can do with Carlson in terms of cap space is to retain him on the roster this year. His salary will only count $2.9 million against the cap this year. Next year if he still sucks major eggs, he will be an easy cap causality, because the cap hit for cutting him will only be $2.8 million when he is due $3.9 million in salary.

There are workout bonuses too that I didn't figure into the equation, but that would only make the cap hits higher. I think his workout bonuses are $100k.

You are pretty far off on the Allen and KW extension math too. Yes, we could rework their contracts to free up some cap space - not $12 million, but still a decent amount. Both KW and Allen's cap impacts have their original signing bonuses included. Reworking a contract will allow you to reduce current year salary and prorate a new signing bonus across the length of the contract, but the original signing bonus allocation is retained.

And finally, the Vikings have plenty of cap space. We are sitting right under $12 million right now, which is in the top 10 or 11 of teams in terms of how much cap space is currently available. At this point in the offseason, that is a pretty healthy spot to be.

There is a lot more that goes into FA and contracts that many don't see or know, and yet are quick to criticize or call Spielman an idiot because they are convinced that they know how to clear $17 million in cap space that Spielman some how missed...

Didn't have his yearly figures or distribution of signing bonuses figures to work with so I just used his projected salary. Mistake made and it will never happen again. Yikes

Lastly, inability of Spielman to clear cap space is not why I call him and idiot GM. I called him an idiot GM because he has shown a propensity for being one in the past. The Rice contact fisasco of letting his contract get to the final years and test FA and bid against other teams for that WR's services. It's the same thing we appear to be doing with Load. At this point, his agent has no reason to have him sign a contact as FA is days away. He will hit the marker and we will have paid more for him than we would have had to. Lastly, there is the pathetic WR corps we put on the field last year. The result of dumpster diving instead of building a team with balance. Way too lazy to look but I am sure you were one of those heralding the signing of Carlson as a good deal. Our GM, unfortunately has thrown money at backup tight ends while investing pennies on that same dollar for Starting WRs. That is idiotic and worthy of being mocked.

Felton is not a special FB. He is an above average to good fullback but the last atleast average FB that Peterson played behind, he made look good as well (Richardson). It's his effect. So excuse me for not doing cartwheels for that one signing. It's long over due and should have been happened ( I begged for a Vonte Lea(e)ch signing in 2011.

Worst of all is that this draft is so lock full of talent and our roster is such void of it, he is going to look like a genius because only an imbicile could mess it up and not walk away with 2 starters and a handful of regular joes. Can't wait to hear the ton of A+ draft comments.

i_bleed_purple
02-27-2013, 08:56 PM
Lastly, inability of Spielman to clear cap space is not why I call him and idiot GM.
You realize it's not Spielman's job to manage the cap. Rob Brzyzinski is the financial guy, he's the guy who gives Spielman numbers to work with.


I called him an idiot GM because he has shown a propensity for being one in the past. The Rice contact fisasco of letting his contract get to the final years and test FA and bid against other teams for that WR's services.Leading up to Rice's 09 season, would you have given him an extension based on him being injured and unproductive? I'd sure hope not. Outside of 09, Rice has played SOME good ball, but mostly inconsistent. THat trend continues when he has somebody NOT named Favre throwing to himi.


Felton is not a special FB. He is an above average to good fullback but the last atleast average FB that Peterson played behind, he made look good as well (Richardson). LOL!

Felton earned his pro bowl berth. He wasn't flashy, but he was VERY solid. One of the unsung heros of our offense. Unlike our previous fullbacks (Tahi, Tapeh, etc) He could actually hit, make a block, and stick to it. He played very well for us as a fullback. He's not a weapon as a runner or receiver, but we don't ask him to. We ask him to block, and he does a more than good job at it. There are numbers supporting that (I don't have them handy, and am not going to look them up. And Richardson was average? Richardson was one of the best fullbacks in the game for a long time. even at the tail end of his career he was still playing some very good ball for us. Notice after 07, Peterson's per game production plumetted?


It's his effect. So excuse me for not doing cartwheels for that one signing. It's long over due and should have been happened ( I begged for a Vonte Lea(e)ch signing in 2011.

Worst of all is that this draft is so lock full of talent and our roster is such void of it, he is going to look like a genius because only an imbicile could mess it up and not walk away with 2 starters and a handful of regular joes. Can't wait to hear the ton of A+ draft comments.

LOL. I remember hearing that exact same thing leading up to the 05 draft. Remember the can't-miss beast named Mike Williams? Or the next Randy Moss Troy Williamson? Or the absolute Stud named Alex Smith? Ronnie Brown(#2) , Braylon Edwards(#3), Cedric Benson (#4), Caddilac Williams (#5), Pacman Jones (#6), Troy Williamson (#7), Antrel Rolle(#8), Carlos Rogers(#9), Mike Williams (#10).

Of those ten, only two have had what you could even call a consistent Career, Rolle and Rogers. Nobody else there deserves to be a top-10 pick. If you could re-do the draft, I bet all those players are mid-round or later (or undrafted).


But only an imbecile could screw up that draft too..

marstc09
02-27-2013, 10:00 PM
Pathetic.....smh

singersp
02-28-2013, 06:05 AM
You need to brush up on your salary cap math.

You are pretty far off on the Allen and KW extension math too. Yes, we could rework their contracts to free up some cap space - not $12 million, but still a decent amount.

Actually, he's probably much closer than you are or giving him credit for. He claims restructuring Allen's contract would free up $8 mil, when actually it can be closer to $9 mil.


Allen is due $14,280,612 in base salary for 2013. For the sake of clarity, round that number down to $14 million and assume the Vikings convert that to a signing bonus on a three-year extension through 2016.

If Allen takes a $1 million base salary for 2013 -- i.e. a $1 million raise -- his cap number would plummet to a little more than $8 million because the signing bonus would be prorated over four years. (He also has $2,583,344 in remaining bonus proration from his expiring deal.)

Just like that, the Vikings would have another $9 million in cap space available in 2013.

Brady's new deal gives clue on possible Jared Allen fix

Pelissero: Tom Brady's new deal gives clue on possible Jared Allen fix - Minnesota Vikings news | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Pelissero_Tom_Bradys_new_deal_gives_clue_on_possible_Jared_Allen_fix022713)

NodakPaul
02-28-2013, 07:43 AM
Actually, he's probably much closer than you are or giving him credit for. He claims restructuring Allen's contract would free up $8 mil, when actually it can be closer to $9 mil.



Brady's new deal gives clue on possible Jared Allen fix

Pelissero: Tom Brady's new deal gives clue on possible Jared Allen fix - Minnesota Vikings news | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Pelissero_Tom_Bradys_new_deal_gives_clue_on_possible_Jared_Allen_fix022713)

Nice find.

One problem with that scenario though is it is only a one year. That puts in cap hell in the future.

The $14 million signing bonus would be spread out over four years, correct. Which means a cap hit of $3.5 million for the last three years of his contract plus whatever his base salary is. It won't be $1 million again. It will be in the $10-15 million range, putting his cap hit in the $13-18 million range each year for each of the last three years.

A more likely scenario IMHO would be to have more base salary this year and a smaller signing bonus to allow for a more manageable future, which means that this year's cap savings will be closes to the $2-$3 million range.