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singersp
02-16-2013, 10:35 AM
Minnesota Vikings will consider 'whole big picture' evaluating Manti Te'o

Minnesota Vikings will consider 'whole big picture' evaluating Manti Te'o - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22600007/minnesota-vikings-will-consider-whole-big-picture-evaluating)

snowinapril
02-16-2013, 03:26 PM
Kids make mistakes. Hopefully he has learned from his.

If he falls to us, it would be worth a look to take him.

singersp
02-17-2013, 08:14 AM
Kids make mistakes. Hopefully he has learned from his.

If he falls to us, it would be worth a look to take him.

+1. It certainly didn't change what he brought to the football field.

Besides, we did sign a QB who claimed football was his girlfriend.

midgensa
02-17-2013, 09:43 AM
Draft Manti ... trade Percy for Revis ... and then our defense in is damn fine shape!

Then sign Greg Jennings (no percy I admit, but at least lessens the blow) and Brian Hartline to help out the receiving corps ... and we have a really solid offseason. Use the other draft spots for BPA and at least one receiver in the second or third round.

I am firmly on the do not give up Percy for anything bandwagon ... but this would be something worth considering if it could make our defense dominant with a talent like Matni slipping as far as our draft spot.

singersp
02-17-2013, 11:01 AM
Then sign Greg Jennings ....

According to Marrdro he's washed up...


Jennings is an old piece of crap "by football standards". Why do you think your [marstc09] beloved PUKERS are letting him go? Like the staffs decision to stay with Ponder as our starter this year, teams are making decisions based on their football knowledge (Jennings is crap) (Ponder is a starter) and fans (who only think they know best) can't follow that train of thought. ....snicker....

Tad7
02-17-2013, 11:10 AM
The fact he disappeared against Alabama along with pretending to have a dead girlfriend to make the world feel sorry for him and be interested in him and increase his Heisman chances and endorsement opportunities (unless you buy his lame story) are just a couple reasons I hope he doesn't wind up on the Vikings.

jargomcfargo
02-17-2013, 11:30 AM
The fact he disappeared against Alabama along with pretending to have a dead girlfriend to make the world feel sorry for him and be interested in him and increase his Heisman chances and endorsement opportunities (unless you buy his lame story) are just a couple reasons I hope he doesn't wind up on the Vikings.
+1

singersp
02-17-2013, 11:52 AM
The fact he disappeared against Alabama along with pretending to have a dead girlfriend to make the world feel sorry for him and be interested in him and increase his Heisman chances and endorsement opportunities (unless you buy his lame story) are just a couple reasons I hope he doesn't wind up on the Vikings.

Didn't he have this GF long before he was even considered a Heisman trophy candidate?

If you're going to claim that his production level wasn't there in 1 game out of his entire collegiate career as a basis not to draft him, then I guess you feel we should opt out of all our draft picks, since every college player has had at least 1 bad game.

Mr Anderson
02-17-2013, 12:05 PM
I can't say I want him on the team, but I think he's a hell of a linebacker. He really stood out to me against Oklahoma and Michigan.

I'd be more interested in him if he was the one who planned the whole fake girlfriend story. I don't want a player stupid enough to be fooled by someone doing a fake girl voice over the phone. If he planned it he'd be an asshole, but at least he wouldn't be a stupid one.

And to say he didn't show up against Alabama is like saying roadkill didn't put up a fight against he truck that hit them.

Tad7
02-17-2013, 02:34 PM
Didn't he have this GF long before he was even considered a Heisman trophy candidate?

If you're going to claim that his production level wasn't there in 1 game out of his entire collegiate career as a basis not to draft him, then I guess you feel we should opt out of all our draft picks, since every college player has had at least 1 bad game.
I don't know when she first came into existence but the fake death sure happened at the best time for him.

I don't watch enough college football to rate Manti Teo. But I do know Alabama was Notre Dame's toughest opponent by far and that was the most important game and that's the game where he was a non-factor. Probably not a good sign. I'll leave that up to the others.

I fully admit what I think he was trying to do with the girlfriend hoax really makes me not be able to stand him regardless.

midgensa
02-17-2013, 04:39 PM
According to Marrdro he's (Greg Jennings) washed up...

Yeah ... well ... as is the case occasionally ... Marrdro is flat wrong on this one.

I don't know if Jennings is an elite talent anymore (or if he ever was), but he certainly is not washed up and certainly could make a huge difference here in Minny.

I also think that Manti could make a difference here as well.

HEY
02-17-2013, 06:37 PM
Didn't he have this GF long before he was even considered a Heisman trophy candidate?

If you're going to claim that his production level wasn't there in 1 game out of his entire collegiate career as a basis not to draft him, then I guess you feel we should opt out of all our draft picks, since every college player has had at least 1 bad game.
+1 :)

HEY
02-17-2013, 07:02 PM
I for one would love to have this guy on our team. Te'o can play ball! The kid's special. Enough said! We could really need a middle linebacker, and he could be the heart of our defense for many many years.

Every year the same thing seems to happen. A guy is praised like a God in the beginning of the season, then when off-season comes around he is devalued to the point that he becomes underrated. On the good side, that would be just fine because then he can slip to the Vikings. I would be ecstatic to see him slip to us in the first round and he is predicted to go just a couple of draft picks before we pick (to the Bengals) in most mock drafts I've seen so the the chance he'll still be on the board is very good.

As for the off-field stuff. First of all, he did not kill anyone, he did not arrange dog fights, he did not use drugs, he did not DUI, he did not fight anyone. He's a good person who wont get banned for anything. As for the girlfriend thing who was totally blown up by the media and effectively succeeded to manipulate the majority of people. (which again proves that the majority of Americans are easily manipulated... or are the media too good???) I don't know the truth, but I for sure wont say that he made the story up for many reason I wont get deeper into here (he says that it was not made-up from his part, women can do that type of things, etc.) I feel sorry for the guy, he seems like a guy who easily place his trust in others and I can relate to that. Unfortunately, bad people take advantage of his naive mind and not only was he lied to by someone he had feelings for and trusted, but then the people start calling him a liar, makes fun of him and patronize him. What happened to the benefit of the doubt? Poor guy. I really wish the best for him and for him to forget the whole thing.

HEY
02-17-2013, 07:07 PM
FYI, the only middle linebacker ranked in front of Te'o on some boards, Alec Ogletree, has a DUI and failed drug test on his resumee. But you don't seem to hear much about that. I know the girlfriend story about Te'o is more "entertaining", but so what if that happened. Who really gives a sh**?!

Purple Floyd
02-18-2013, 11:14 AM
I am all for getting a top notch MLB to anchor the defense. It is THE single most important position in the 4-3 and we have been lacking there since the days of Studwell and Del Rio. If he is a bit unstable we can always employ the Waterboy strategy and get him to think the QB is dissing his GF and watch him tear them up.

There is no position on the team besides QB where I would like to land a blue chipper than MLB.

Randy Moss
02-18-2013, 05:41 PM
What makes me more nervous about Teo was just how bad he was at the end of the season. He was overrated even before this scandal broke out.

jargomcfargo
02-18-2013, 10:55 PM
Didn't he have this GF long before he was even considered a Heisman trophy candidate?

If you're going to claim that his production level wasn't there in 1 game out of his entire collegiate career as a basis not to draft him, then I guess you feel we should opt out of all our draft picks, since every college player has had at least 1 bad game.

Did every college player have that one bad game during the most important game of their life?
You know, the one game where he knew everyone was watching?
The one game where the pressure was on?
The one game where the competiton was comprised of NFL caliber players?
Just say no to T'eo. He has bust written all over him.

singersp
02-19-2013, 06:32 AM
Did every college player have that one bad game during the most important game of their life?
You know, the one game where he knew everyone was watching?
The one game where the pressure was on?
The one game where the competiton was comprised of NFL caliber players?
Just say no to T'eo. He has bust written all over him.

I don't watch college ball, but I would have to think if you are one of the top players in contention for a Heisman, you're a pretty damn good player.

Are we to shy away from all Notre Dame players because they lost that game?

jargomcfargo
02-19-2013, 09:40 PM
I don't watch college ball, but I would have to think if you are one of the top players in contention for a Heisman, you're a pretty damn good player.

Are we to shy away from all Notre Dame players because they lost that game?

You didn't see the Championship game. That explains a lot.
Teo looked like a boy against men. He may have played well against easier teams but didn't show up for the championship game.
How will he do against NFL players?
Perhaps great, but I have my doubts.

marshallvike
02-20-2013, 09:05 AM
You didn't see the Championship game. That explains a lot.
Teo looked like a boy against men. He may have played well against easier teams but didn't show up for the championship game.
How will he do against NFL players?
Perhaps great, but I have my doubts.

Notre Dame had one of the toughest schedules in the country, so it is tough to say he played well against easier teams. Granted they were not Bama, but they were still good teams. I can see your point, but it is possible he just had a bad game at the wrong time. The whole team looked bad that game. The Dline was manhandled one on one. That did make it easier for Bama to take him out at the second level. Plus didn't he just find out his girlfriend had a johnson before that game? That could affect his focus also.lol

NodakPaul
02-20-2013, 10:31 AM
Notre Dame had one of the toughest schedules in the country, so it is tough to say he played well against easier teams. Granted they were not Bama, but they were still good teams. I can see your point, but it is possible he just had a bad game at the wrong time. The whole team looked bad that game. The Dline was manhandled one on one. That did make it easier for Bama to take him out at the second level. Plus didn't he just find out his girlfriend had a johnson before that game? That could affect his focus also.lol

That would have thrown me for a loop. :D

I agree that part of his problem was ND's DL losing the fight at the line. Te'o has some issues getting off blocks and that was exploited when the DL couldn't absorb as many blocker as they did for most of the season. That could be a problem in the NFL though too.

I think Te'o is a decent player, but I don't know if he is first round caliber IMHO.

jargomcfargo
02-20-2013, 10:54 AM
Notre Dame had one of the toughest schedules in the country, so it is tough to say he played well against easier teams. Granted they were not Bama, but they were still good teams. I can see your point, but it is possible he just had a bad game at the wrong time. The whole team looked bad that game. The Dline was manhandled one on one. That did make it easier for Bama to take him out at the second level. Plus didn't he just find out his girlfriend had a johnson before that game? That could affect his focus also.lol

I've seen a lot of great performances from NFL players after a personal life tragedy. Favre's father passing away and Griffen's mother passing away are two that come to mind.
If the discovery of a johnson was an excuse for an unispired performance on the field, it may be an indication of how he reacts to pressure, despite his talent. Some people have ability but fold under pressure.
Perhaps it was simply an isolated instance of a bad game, as Singer suggests.
I think the Vikings defense would be significantly better with a stud middle linebacker.
If the Vikings draft Teo, I will support the pick and hope for the best.
But I hope they pass.

mountainviking
02-20-2013, 11:06 AM
I did watch the championship game and I can tell you that not only did ND get man handled by bigger, stronger players, but they also got F'd in the A by the refs 3 times in the first 5-10 minutes. I mean, Bama would have won the game anyway...it was obvious they had the advantage in size and overall talent on their side across the entire team, but the refs took all the fun out of it with their early BS calls that set Bama up 3 scores and put ND in a hole they had absolutely no chance of climbing out of.

Now, I'm not saying I watched Te'o specifically enough to say, hell yeah take him as our first, just that the game was way out of his hands early, and that his DL wasn't doing him any favors, and, well, ya know, he had that whole fake-dead-gf thing distracting him too.

IF our guys, Studwell, Spielman etc, who have watched all the tape take him at 23, I won't be disappointed. Except, for the fact that we'll be gambling that a worthy WR will still be there for our next pick...

The latest CMD from drafttek has us grabbing Minter out of LSU in the first, and that kid has great instincts and would be a huge upgrade vs. the pass over Brinkley, but perhaps, a bit less of a run plugger. Good pick IMO, but, it means that 5 or 6 WRs go off the board by our next pick, leaving us to choose Tavarres King (who!??) to fill what I feel is our biggest need. It's a deep draft for WRs, but I'm not thinking the 6th guy is as good as the top 3 or 4 at this point.

NFL Mock Draft 2013 Picks 17-32 (http://www.drafttek.com/2013-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round1b.asp)

Tavarres King, WR, Georgia, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1620562/tavarres-king)

tastywaves
02-20-2013, 11:18 AM
Every time I see this kids name I can't get this tune out of my head:

Poor ol' Manti Te'o, ain't never got a kiss
Poor ol' Manti Te'o, you don't know what you miss
Is it any wonder, that his face is red?
Manti Te'o, you poor old wooden head

queue the world's smallest fiddle

Purple Floyd
02-20-2013, 12:47 PM
Every time I see this kids name I can't get this tune out of my head:

Poor ol' Manti Te'o, ain't never got a kiss
Poor ol' Manti Te'o, you don't know what you miss
Is it any wonder, that his face is red?
Manti Te'o, you poor old wooden head

queue the world's smallest fiddle

Manti Te'o

Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o

Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o

Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o
Manti Te'o

:haha:

That should get you through the day.

tarkenton10
02-20-2013, 03:09 PM
Kids make mistakes. Hopefully he has learned from his.

If he falls to us, it would be worth a look to take him.

I wouldn't want him, I don't think he fits the skill set of a tampa 2 MLB. He is primarily a 2 down Mike just like Brinkley, I think you guys wil be disappointed if you draft him and it is not his fault.

If we want a mike LB I would much rather have Ogletree or Mintor.

tarkenton10
02-20-2013, 03:13 PM
I did watch the championship game and I can tell you that not only did ND get man handled by bigger, stronger players, but they also got F'd in the A by the refs 3 times in the first 5-10 minutes. I mean, Bama would have won the game anyway...it was obvious they had the advantage in size and overall talent on their side across the entire team, but the refs took all the fun out of it with their early BS calls that set Bama up 3 scores and put ND in a hole they had absolutely no chance of climbing out of.

Now, I'm not saying I watched Te'o specifically enough to say, hell yeah take him as our first, just that the game was way out of his hands early, and that his DL wasn't doing him any favors, and, well, ya know, he had that whole fake-dead-gf thing distracting him too.

IF our guys, Studwell, Spielman etc, who have watched all the tape take him at 23, I won't be disappointed. Except, for the fact that we'll be gambling that a worthy WR will still be there for our next pick...

The latest CMD from drafttek has us grabbing Minter out of LSU in the first, and that kid has great instincts and would be a huge upgrade vs. the pass over Brinkley, but perhaps, a bit less of a run plugger. Good pick IMO, but, it means that 5 or 6 WRs go off the board by our next pick, leaving us to choose Tavarres King (who!??) to fill what I feel is our biggest need. It's a deep draft for WRs, but I'm not thinking the 6th guy is as good as the top 3 or 4 at this point.

NFL Mock Draft 2013 Picks 17-32 (http://www.drafttek.com/2013-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round1b.asp)


Tavarres King, WR, Georgia, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1620562/tavarres-king)

There might Hunter out of Tenn. or Rogers out of Tenn. Tech. Both may be as good as the WRs ahead of them.

Ranger
02-22-2013, 09:52 AM
There might Hunter out of Tenn. or Rogers out of Tenn. Tech. Both may be as good as the WRs ahead of them.

I can't see this huge chasm between Hunter and Patterson, but I guess the folks mocking it up do. Keenan Allen would be a nice first round pick, too...and he might slide, as he's not a workout warrior. Then again, receivers usually need a few years to adjust to the professional game.

marshallvike
02-22-2013, 03:18 PM
I've seen a lot of great performances from NFL players after a personal life tragedy. Favre's father passing away and Griffen's mother passing away are two that come to mind.
If the discovery of a johnson was an excuse for an unispired performance on the field, it may be an indication of how he reacts to pressure, despite his talent. Some people have ability but fold under pressure.
Perhaps it was simply an isolated instance of a bad game, as Singer suggests.
I think the Vikings defense would be significantly better with a stud middle linebacker.
If the Vikings draft Teo, I will support the pick and hope for the best.
But I hope they pass.

The chicks with d!(ks line was more tongue in cheek than a serious excuse for him. I actually agree with you hoping they pass but supporting him if they draft him. I thought a lot more of him before the championship game. I just think it is possible it may have been an off game for him, and his DL did not help him. Spielman will make the right choice.

singersp
02-23-2013, 12:16 PM
I just find it odd that someone who was gullible & duped by another person over the internet is having his character & draft chances raked over the coals & his name dragged thru the mud by the media & football fans in the same time frame they were praising & lauding the career & character of a NFL player directly involved in a double murder.

Culpepper_4717
02-25-2013, 02:46 PM
Looks like Harbaugh wasn't impressed with Te'o lol

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/740/603/harbaugh_original.gif?1361819510

thorshammer
02-25-2013, 09:13 PM
man he ran slow today ... i hope we pass on him at this point.

Purple Floyd
03-02-2013, 10:48 AM
Yeah, he looks more and more like a problem waiting to happen as time goes by

singersp
03-03-2013, 09:12 AM
If he's not that good, exactly what did this kid do to be a candidate for the Heisman in the first place?

C Mac D
03-03-2013, 10:11 AM
If he's not that good, exactly what did this kid do to be a candidate for the Heisman in the first place?

He went to Notre Dame.

vikinggreg
03-03-2013, 10:25 AM
If he's not that good, exactly what did this kid do to be a candidate for the Heisman in the first place?

Tim likes this post

http://www.home-school.com/Articles/images/80-tebow-2.jpg


others that also have liked this post

Eric White, Eric Crouch, Matt Lienart, Chris Weinke, Ron Dayne, Rashaan Salaam, Troy Smith, Danny Wuerffel, Charlie Ward, Gino Torretta, Ty Detmer

singersp
03-04-2013, 04:07 AM
tim likes this post

http://www.home-school.com/articles/images/80-tebow-2.jpg


others that also have liked this post

eric white, eric crouch, matt lienart, chris weinke, ron dayne, rashaan salaam, troy smith, danny wuerffel, charlie ward, gino torretta, ty detmer


lol!

PackSux!
03-04-2013, 10:18 PM
Tim likes this post

http://www.home-school.com/Articles/images/80-tebow-2.jpg


others that also have liked this post

Eric White, Eric Crouch, Matt Lienart, Chris Weinke, Ron Dayne, Rashaan Salaam, Troy Smith, Danny Wuerffel, Charlie Ward, Gino Torretta, Ty Detmer

I assume you mean Jason White who won the Heisman in 2003?

A candidate is not considered a winner until he/she wins.

You listed a bunch of names that won the Heisman, not the candidates. ALL DAY was a candidate for the heisman! I do not ever remember Te'o winning the Heisman.

i_bleed_purple
03-05-2013, 05:05 PM
I assume you mean Jason White who won the Heisman in 2003?

A candidate is not considered a winner until he/she wins.

You listed a bunch of names that won the Heisman, not the candidates. ALL DAY was a candidate for the heisman! I do not ever remember Te'o winning the Heisman.

His point that winning the Heisman does not mean you're a good pro prospect. Being nominated means even less.

HEY
04-17-2013, 04:30 PM
Newsflash: They all practically have the same speed. This especially goes out to all of you who buys into the 40 yard dash way too much. I think players are ridiculously mis-judged based on their measurable, but for you people I'm gonna collaborate just this time.

Everyone seems to know Manti Te'o's 40 yard time, but just for cautions; Te'o ran 4,82 at the Combine, and while some timed him at 4,69 at his Pro Day, the consensus seems to be that he ran 4,71.

Kevin Minter - ran virtually the same time as Te'o at both the Combine (4,81) and his Pro Day (4,68). He also had the exact same vertical leap at 33".
HOWEVER, Te'o has a slightly bigger body. He's taller and has longer arms (and better too, remember he had seven picks last season? That's unheard of for a linebacker.). Taking this all into account, Manti Te'o has an edge on Minter.

Arthur Brown - The smallest out of all the four linebackers, the consensus seems to be that Brown ran around 4,67 on his Pro Day. That's virtually the same time as Te'o. It's hard to give Brown much of an edge on Te'o in the speed department considering Arthur Brown is even smaller than Minter,

Alec Ogletree - Known for the athletic one out of the group with the best size. Ogletree ran 4,7 at the Combine and around 4,65 at the Pro Day. That's 0,06 seconds less than Te'o. The more important part is that Te'o and Ogletree had identical 10 yard splits at the Combine. Also worth mentioning that Te'o had a FASTER time than Ogletree in the cone-drill.

Now that we have that behind us, let me just say that middle linebackers aren't supposed to be fast. There's a reason why none of the top 4 MLB's are even close to running under 4,6. Their responsibility is to run sideline to sideline. Think about it: A football field is 53 yards wide. In a 4-3 defensive scheme as Minnesota runs the outside linebackers are responsible to cover more grounds than the middle 'backer. That's like... let's just say 20-20 yards for the OLB's and 13 yards for the MLB. THIRTEEN YARDS!

Now tell me how important a MLB's forty time is!

PS: Don't sleep on Kiko Alonso! The fith best inside linebacker (at least in my book) with better size than any of the linebackers mentioned above, and with the most upside.

HEY
04-17-2013, 04:35 PM
Another player who challenges the #5 MLB spot in the year's draft...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccA5hvUaX-8

singersp
04-18-2013, 07:55 AM
Te’o too good to pass up

Scout.com: Holler: Te?o too good to pass up (http://min.scout.com/2/1283709.html)

kevoncox
04-18-2013, 08:27 AM
I agree. He is too good to pass up. I've seen Peterson rush for 14 yards. 14 yards in a game.
Judging him on that game I would say he was washed up.

vikinggreg
04-18-2013, 08:35 AM
If the Vikings are targeting Te'o I wouldn't mind seeing them doing a trade with the 9ers, as San Fran has a few too many picks and doesn't have the cap space for 14 picks and they don't have the room on their roster. We could get an extra pick and get Te'o just before the Ravens.....unless they move up to get him which I could live with too.

NodakPaul
04-18-2013, 10:29 AM
I am not convinced that Te'o is our top target. I think he is ONE of our top targets, but I think that there are several other players who we would take ahead of him if they are available.

There is a lot of misinformation and smoke screens thrown up before the draft.

vikinggreg
04-18-2013, 11:26 AM
I am not convinced that Te'o is our top target. I think he is ONE of our top targets, but I think that there are several other players who we would take ahead of him if they are available.

There is a lot of misinformation and smoke screens thrown up before the draft.

Are you saying the Vikings didn't really prefer Morris Claiborne last year.....;)

RK.
04-18-2013, 11:28 AM
Now that we have that behind us, let me just say that middle linebackers aren't supposed to be fast. There's a reason why none of the top 4 MLB's are even close to running under 4,6. Their responsibility is to run sideline to sideline. Think about it: A football field is 53 yards wide. In a 4-3 defensive scheme as Minnesota runs the outside linebackers are responsible to cover more grounds than the middle 'backer. That's like... let's just say 20-20 yards for the OLB's and 13 yards for the MLB. THIRTEEN YARDS!

Now tell me how important a MLB's forty time is!


Because when your pass defenders blow it and a wr or te is running through the secondary the linebackers have to try and catch them.:rolleyes:

Also having the speed to blitz the QB and catch him as he rolls away from the blitz is also a consideration.

mountainviking
04-18-2013, 11:36 AM
Attention to all who'd rather draft Ogletree, Minter or Arthur Brown over Te'o

HEY, True, true and true...I was thinking about this yesterday as well. Since it seems so likely we'll draft him, I started looking into several scouting reports to get a better idea of what/who he is. Some (who likely want him to fall) call him slow, but he ran right around the same speed as all of the other top MLBs. His 3-cone was nearly a top five number, and that is more important cuz it shows his ability to change directions on the fly and cover short distances. But, by every account, he is an intelligent team player and hard worker, exactly the kind of player our team is built around. And, since the MLB is the QB of the D who calls the plays and helps get his teammates lined up, that is very, very important!

As for further down the list, IF this really is an elaborate smokescreen, a name for the fast 40 guys is Jon Bostic. Kid ran a top 40 time of 4.6, top 3-cone time of 6.99, and top 20 yd shuttle too at 6'1" and 245 lbs. He also led a top college defense, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get more love...? Perhaps, it comes down to intelligence?

Jon Bostic Draft Profile (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/jon-bostic?id=2539978)

HEY
04-18-2013, 12:23 PM
I like Jon Bostic. He showed surprising speed at the Combine. He's great against the run and I like his instincts. He's still not a speed demon, but that's okay.

To address my good man RK here (I'm not sure if you were fully kidding): The middle linebacker's main focus is to stop the run between the tackles. If he's good against the run, he has a fair chance at being a starter. The same can not be said if he's good against the pass.

We wont ask our middle linebacker to run stride-by-stride with Vernon Davis or Hernandez down deep. Finding a universal middle linebacker with that type of speed combined with size and run-stopping abilities is nearly impossible in today's NFL (or the yesterday's for that matter). The Mike 'backer is very rarely asked to cover man-to-man. However, in Minnesota's scheme they do like to drop the mike down in zone coverage. But again, this is not a big zone to cover so quickness (and awareness) is still more valued than long speed.

tastywaves
04-18-2013, 12:24 PM
Attention to all who'd rather draft Ogletree, Minter or Arthur Brown over Te'o

HEY, True, true and true...I was thinking about this yesterday as well. Since it seems so likely we'll draft him, I started looking into several scouting reports to get a better idea of what/who he is. Some (who likely want him to fall) call him slow, but he ran right around the same speed as all of the other top MLBs. His 3-cone was nearly a top five number, and that is more important cuz it shows his ability to change directions on the fly and cover short distances. But, by every account, he is an intelligent team player and hard worker, exactly the kind of player our team is built around. And, since the MLB is the QB of the D who calls the plays and helps get his teammates lined up, that is very, very important!

As for further down the list, IF this really is an elaborate smokescreen, a name for the fast 40 guys is Jon Bostic. Kid ran a top 40 time of 4.6, top 3-cone time of 6.99, and top 20 yd shuttle too at 6'1" and 245 lbs. He also led a top college defense, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get more love...? Perhaps, it comes down to intelligence?

Jon Bostic Draft Profile (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/jon-bostic?id=2539978)

My take on MLB, is that it is largely a position about instincts and production. Game film is probably a better indicator then combine results. When reading all the different analysis on Bostic, he is primarily labeled as a thumper with average coverage skills. Not because of his speed or lack thereof, but because of his read/reaction and hip movement. To be fair, most MLB's are going to have a hard time with hip movement. They need to be sturdy against the run, able to take on OL and have coverage skills. Pretty hard to find a guy good in all areas.

My preference is to find the MLB that has the best mental makeup, a guy that just makes plays because he reads and reacts well. AW-like approach to the game.

Te'o's (hmmm is that how that works?) interception count is a good indicator of his instincts in coverage.

tarkenton10
04-18-2013, 02:30 PM
Attention to all who'd rather draft Ogletree, Minter or Arthur Brown over Te'o

HEY, True, true and true...I was thinking about this yesterday as well. Since it seems so likely we'll draft him, I started looking into several scouting reports to get a better idea of what/who he is. Some (who likely want him to fall) call him slow, but he ran right around the same speed as all of the other top MLBs. His 3-cone was nearly a top five number, and that is more important cuz it shows his ability to change directions on the fly and cover short distances. But, by every account, he is an intelligent team player and hard worker, exactly the kind of player our team is built around. And, since the MLB is the QB of the D who calls the plays and helps get his teammates lined up, that is very, very important!

As for further down the list, IF this really is an elaborate smokescreen, a name for the fast 40 guys is Jon Bostic. Kid ran a top 40 time of 4.6, top 3-cone time of 6.99, and top 20 yd shuttle too at 6'1" and 245 lbs. He also led a top college defense, so I'm not sure why he doesn't get more love...? Perhaps, it comes down to intelligence?

Jon Bostic Draft Profile (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/jon-bostic?id=2539978)

I like Bostic and Brown if we are going to stay in the tampa two. The other ones are just two down backers in the system. We could have kept Brinkley, their skill sets are very similar to him and we would have one less hole to fill. And please, please, please, PLEASE stay away from the honey badger.

kevoncox
04-18-2013, 02:36 PM
I like Bostic and Brown if we are going to stay in the tampa two. The other ones are just two down backers in the system. We could have kept Brinkley, their skill sets are very similar to him and we would have one less hole to fill. And please, please, please, PLEASE stay away from the honey badger.

How is ogletree a 2 down LB. He has the best cover skills of the group as a former safety.

tarkenton10
04-18-2013, 02:44 PM
How is ogletree a 2 down LB. He has the best cover skills of the group as a former safety.

I forgot about Ogletree as I look for him to move to the weak side in the NFL. If they use him as a mike, you are right he is a very athletic LBer, I am just not sold on him playing the middle. If you watch his film he likes to use his shoulders way too much and doesn't use his hands very well. Not a good strategy for a mike shedding blocks.

kevoncox
04-18-2013, 02:57 PM
I forgot about Ogletree as I look for him to move to the weak side in the NFL. If they use him as a mike, you are right he is a very athletic LBer, I am just not sold on him playing the middle. If you watch his film he likes to use his shoulders way too much and doesn't use his hands very well. Not a good strategy for a mike shedding blocks.

I would like to draft him to play the middle. If it doesn't work out atleast we can move him to the outside, where I am sure he will succeed. He is who I really want.

RK.
04-18-2013, 03:07 PM
To address my good man RK here (I'm not sure if you were fully kidding): The middle linebacker's main focus is to stop the run between the tackles. If he's good against the run, he has a fair chance at being a starter. The same can not be said if he's good against the pass.



There might have been a little tongue in cheek in my comment. It just comes from watching our secondary get burned the last few years and line backers trying to catch receivers running free over the middle.

I think we end up with Ogeltree.

tarkenton10
04-18-2013, 03:10 PM
I would like to draft him to play the middle. If it doesn't work out atleast we can move him to the outside, where I am sure he will succeed. He is who I really want.

I'm with you and I thougth he might be there but his dui is fading and people are starting tolook at his athleticism again. I think it is going to be close if he makes it to us. I am not so sure he will make it at the mike but like I said he has a great skillset for a will in our system.

kevoncox
04-18-2013, 03:14 PM
I'm with you and I thougth he might be there but his dui is fading and people are starting tolook at his athleticism again. I think it is going to be close if he makes it to us. I am not so sure he will make it at the mike but like I said he has a great skillset for a will in our system.

Bears will take him before us. I wouldn't mind trading up to the 19th spot. (Give up a 5th)

tarkenton10
04-18-2013, 03:20 PM
Bears will take him before us. I wouldn't mind trading up to the 19th spot. (Give up a 5th)

It would take more than a 5th, going from 23 to 18 is roughly 240 points. Thata would put us in a 3rd round pick, we may get by with a fourth.

tastywaves
04-18-2013, 03:30 PM
I like Bostic and Brown if we are going to stay in the tampa two. The other ones are just two down backers in the system. We could have kept Brinkley, their skill sets are very similar to him and we would have one less hole to fill. And please, please, please, PLEASE stay away from the honey badger.

Many say the same about Bostic.

Jon Bostic, ILB, Florida, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664202/jon-bostic)


A bit stiff in his upper body and can be eluded in the open field. Relies on his eyes rather than athleticism when in coverage and will likely struggle in this area in the NFL, making him likely a two-down linebacker.

Bostic looks like a solid prospect, but he's projected in the 3rd round or later for a reason.

jargomcfargo
04-18-2013, 03:33 PM
Just say no to trading up. If Ogletree and T'eo are still available when the Bears pick, Vikes should chose the one left over.

kevoncox
04-18-2013, 03:33 PM
I like Bostic and Brown if we are going to stay in the tampa two. The other ones are just two down backers in the system. We could have kept Brinkley, their skill sets are very similar to him and we would have one less hole to fill. And please, please, please, PLEASE stay away from the honey badger.

Why do you want to stay away from the honey badger?

kevoncox
04-18-2013, 03:40 PM
True...
Still would like a trade back with our 2nd first to pick up a late 3rd.

HEY
04-18-2013, 04:08 PM
Ogletree is, as "kevoncox" already pointed our, a former safety and has good hips and explosiveness. I also like what you're saying about his versatility. This is because I believe Erin Henderson can perform just as good, perhaps better, at the inside. And I think the coaches also have this in mind. Don't be so surprised if Minnesota drafts an OLB instead of an MLB high in this draft.

On another note, I find it hard to pick the best cover inside linebacker in this draft. Ogletree doesn't seem to have the instinct (perhaps that's part of the reason he was moved from safety in the first place), Kevin Minter is more of a run-stopper, Arthur Brown has nice quickness, but is not a big playmaker. Here's the ironic part: Numbers such as 40 yard time is being overly focused on, but other numbers which should be a big part in the process of evaluating Te'o are swept under the rug. Because strictly statistically speaking, Manti Te'o is the best cover inside linebacker coming out of college in a long time. Being more realistic, I'm very aware of that many of the INT's are about "being in the right place" as one would say, but it still should hold some merit. 7 interceptions by an inside linebacker in one college season is unheard of!

With that being said, I think Te'o is not much better than average in man coverage, but can be good in zone-coverage as an MLB in the NFL. Fortunately for us, that's what he will be asked to do.

As for the best cover ILB... I still want to bring up Kiko Alonso. He has great potential.

kevoncox
04-18-2013, 04:36 PM
Ogletree is, as "kevoncox" already pointed our, a former safety and has good hips and explosiveness. I also like what you're saying about his versatility. This is because I believe Erin Henderson can perform just as good, perhaps better, at the inside. And I think the coaches also have this in mind. Don't be so surprised if Minnesota drafts an OLB instead of an MLB high in this draft.

On another note, I find it hard to pick the best cover inside linebacker in this draft. Ogletree doesn't seem to have the instinct (perhaps that's part of the reason he was moved from safety in the first place), Kevin Minter is more of a run-stopper, Arthur Brown has nice quickness, but is not a big playmaker. Here's the ironic part: Numbers such as 40 yard time is being overly focused on, but other numbers which should be a big part in the process of evaluating Te'o are swept under the rug. Because strictly statistically speaking, Manti Te'o is the best cover inside linebacker coming out of college in a long time. Being more realistic, I'm very aware of that many of the INT's are about "being in the right place" as one would say, but it still should hold some merit. 7 interceptions by an inside linebacker in one college season is unheard of!

With that being said, I think Te'o is not much better than average in man coverage, but can be good in zone-coverage as an MLB in the NFL. Fortunately for us, that's what he will be asked to do.

As for the best cover ILB... I still want to bring up Kiko Alonso. He has great potential.

How many did he have before last season.... Answer = 0
I would rather have 4 ints/yr over 4 years than 1 year of 7. It makes me ask...what is the norm for you?

Also, I am very torn over everything in this draft. I have never seen a draft where any and everything remains a possibility.

WR + LB = missing out on DT
LB + DT = Missing out on WR

I litterally wished we had 6 first round picks. Lets not even talk about trading up for Star Louietoli (spelling)

HEY
04-18-2013, 05:05 PM
How many did he have before last season.... Answer = 0
I would rather have 4 ints/yr over 4 years than 1 year of 7. It makes me ask...what is the norm for you?

Also, I am very torn over everything in this draft. I have never seen a draft where any and everything remains a possibility.

WR + LB = missing out on DT
LB + DT = Missing out on WR

I litterally wished we had 6 first round picks. Lets not even talk about trading up for Star Louietoli (spelling)
You and me both... :)

tastywaves
04-18-2013, 05:48 PM
How many did he have before last season.... Answer = 0
I would rather have 4 ints/yr over 4 years than 1 year of 7. It makes me ask...what is the norm for you?

Also, I am very torn over everything in this draft. I have never seen a draft where any and everything remains a possibility.

WR + LB = missing out on DT
LB + DT = Missing out on WR

I litterally wished we had 6 first round picks. Lets not even talk about trading up for Star Louietoli (spelling)


Manti Te’o, ILB, Notre Dame, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1697293)


Returned for his senior season dedicated to making himself a more productive defender against the pass and was incredibly successful in those role, demonstrating not only better speed and fluidity but instincts in coverage. Entered his senior campaign with zero career interceptions but recorded seven in 2012 to lead all FBS linebackers

tarkenton10
04-19-2013, 08:39 AM
Why do you want to stay away from the honey badger?

It's my own personal opinion but I watched his interviews and he appears to me as someone who knows more than everyone else. And once he gets his money will think he is able to do his thing (drugs) and still play at a high level. I also don't think everyone is Antoine Winfield and I don't like his height and weight. My biggest concerns are off the field, I thnk he may even have a good rookie season but I think in th elong run he will end up like Pacman Jones.

singersp
04-19-2013, 08:45 AM
I believe Erin Henderson can perform just as good, perhaps better, at the inside. And I think the coaches also have this in mind. Don't be so surprised if Minnesota drafts an OLB instead of an MLB high in this draft.

Isn't that what they did with E.J.?

i_bleed_purple
04-19-2013, 09:51 AM
Isn't that what they did with E.J.?

I could be wrong, but wasn't EJ a top MLB prospect, but they played him at OLB as he struggled at MLB initially. Once they move d him back after a few years he really started to gel.

tarkenton10
04-19-2013, 10:06 AM
Many say the same about Bostic.

Jon Bostic, ILB, Florida, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664202/jon-bostic)



Bostic looks like a solid prospect, but he's projected in the 3rd round or later for a reason.

Weak ILB group as they all have weaknesses. I think Bostic could be used on third down and defintely Ogletree. With this class, why didn't we just stay with Brinkley is my question? I am not convinced Ogletree can play the mike in the NFL. He can get caught up in the wash, he likes to use his shoulder instead of using his hands to shed a block. I don't really like our options for MIKE, Ogletree, I think will be a very good OLB in the NFL so if he doesn't make it in the middle, we can move him outside.

tarkenton10
04-19-2013, 10:08 AM
Ogletree is, as "kevoncox" already pointed our, a former safety and has good hips and explosiveness. I also like what you're saying about his versatility. This is because I believe Erin Henderson can perform just as good, perhaps better, at the inside. And I think the coaches also have this in mind. Don't be so surprised if Minnesota drafts an OLB instead of an MLB high in this draft.

On another note, I find it hard to pick the best cover inside linebacker in this draft. Ogletree doesn't seem to have the instinct (perhaps that's part of the reason he was moved from safety in the first place), Kevin Minter is more of a run-stopper, Arthur Brown has nice quickness, but is not a big playmaker. Here's the ironic part: Numbers such as 40 yard time is being overly focused on, but other numbers which should be a big part in the process of evaluating Te'o are swept under the rug. Because strictly statistically speaking, Manti Te'o is the best cover inside linebacker coming out of college in a long time. Being more realistic, I'm very aware of that many of the INT's are about "being in the right place" as one would say, but it still should hold some merit. 7 interceptions by an inside linebacker in one college season is unheard of!

With that being said, I think Te'o is not much better than average in man coverage, but can be good in zone-coverage as an MLB in the NFL. Fortunately for us, that's what he will be asked to do.

As for the best cover ILB... I still want to bring up Kiko Alonso. He has great potential.

Good post,like him too.

tarkenton10
04-19-2013, 10:14 AM
I could be wrong, but wasn't EJ a top MLB prospect, but they played him at OLB as he struggled at MLB initially. Once they move d him back after a few years he really started to gel.

Ej was in the top two or three MLBs of his draft class. But his stock started to drop right before draft day, there were issues with his speed.

HEY
04-19-2013, 11:53 AM
Yes, seemed stupid to put E.J. Henderson on the outside when he had questionable speed, but I think it was more because the team at the time had no one to play on the outside so the coaches figured they'd play their best linebacker on the outside. I understand the decision. I'd rather play my best linebacker out of his MLB position and start the 2nd best MLB in his place (who was thought of as a pretty good player at the time) than to start a completely bad player at OLB.

I don't understand why so many middle linebackers struggle so much when they have to play on the outside in the 4-3. Reminds me of last season in Carolina. The Panthers have two very good middle linebackers in Beason and Kuechly so they decided to start the rookie on the outside. We all know how good Kuechly was when they moved him back to the inside. I think the Panthers linebacker group might be one of NFL's finest when Beason comes back and plays on the outside. I think he can do it. Just needs to stay healthy. (which he obviously has problems with. Hmm.. E.J. Henderson 2.0?)

tastywaves
04-19-2013, 12:19 PM
Yes, seemed stupid to put E.J. Henderson on the outside when he had questionable speed, but I think it was more because the team at the time had no one to play on the outside so the coaches figured they'd play their best linebacker on the outside. I understand the decision. I'd rather play my best linebacker out of his MLB position and start the 2nd best MLB in his place (who was thought of as a pretty good player at the time) than to start a completely bad player at OLB.

I don't understand why so many middle linebackers struggle so much when they have to play on the outside in the 4-3. Reminds me of last season in Carolina. The Panthers have two very good middle linebackers in Beason and Kuechly so they decided to start the rookie on the outside. We all know how good Kuechly was when they moved him back to the inside. I think the Panthers linebacker group might be one of NFL's finest when Beason comes back and plays on the outside. I think he can do it. Just needs to stay healthy. (which he obviously has problems with. Hmm.. E.J. Henderson 2.0?)

I played a little of each as a young lad and I can tell you that they are quite a bit different. MLB position is more reactive and instinctual whereas the outside linebacker's require more discipline and play in more space giving them more time to react (and more time to screw up). OLB's have more coverage responsibility (often man) and need to work well with the corners.

The MLB has to be better at working in a more confined space. Quicker to react, able to deal with big bodies draped on him constantly, and of course calling the defensive alignments and coverages.

Without a doubt, the most fun I've ever had playing football was when I played MLB. Felt like I was in every play.

tarkenton10
04-19-2013, 01:59 PM
Yes, seemed stupid to put E.J. Henderson on the outside when he had questionable speed, but I think it was more because the team at the time had no one to play on the outside so the coaches figured they'd play their best linebacker on the outside. I understand the decision. I'd rather play my best linebacker out of his MLB position and start the 2nd best MLB in his place (who was thought of as a pretty good player at the time) than to start a completely bad player at OLB.

I don't understand why so many middle linebackers struggle so much when they have to play on the outside in the 4-3. Reminds me of last season in Carolina. The Panthers have two very good middle linebackers in Beason and Kuechly so they decided to start the rookie on the outside. We all know how good Kuechly was when they moved him back to the inside. I think the Panthers linebacker group might be one of NFL's finest when Beason comes back and plays on the outside. I think he can do it. Just needs to stay healthy. (which he obviously has problems with. Hmm.. E.J. Henderson 2.0?)

Speed matters alot at the MIKE but it really matters on the outside. A decent MLB that can tackle is an advantage usually on the first two downs, even if they are slow. The odds are an Offense will run at least once in the first two downs. An outside LB has to cover more and faster players as a rule which exaserbates the lack of speed a backer has on the outside. Usually there are more routes also which means a different skillset too.

Brinkley and most of this year's prospects in the middle have a better skillset for a 3-4 IMO.

kevoncox
04-19-2013, 02:43 PM
Speed matters alot at the MIKE but it really matters on the outside. A decent MLB that can tackle is an advantage usually on the first two downs, even if they are slow. The odds are an Offense will run at least once in the first two downs. An outside LB has to cover more and faster players as a rule which exaserbates the lack of speed a backer has on the outside. Usually there are more routes also which means a different skillset too.

Brinkley and most of this year's prospects in the middle have a better skillset for a 3-4 IMO.

Speed matters in the Tampa 2. MLBs for the Tampa 2 cover the middle of the field, much like a traditional cover 3. The confusion it caused in the early 2000s was due to QBs reading what the two safeties were doing, declearing cover 2, and throwing the deep drag, in, shallow post, etc....only to have it picked off by the unseen mlb playing underneath.

In that instance the able to cover a lot of ground deep and enough speed to come up and lay the lumber on runs is imperative. I like ogletree the best for this job. His range is well known but is just average in tackling when OL get a hand on him. Te'o will also be good. I think his skills are being ignored as he has become a running joke...the kid can ball.

tarkenton10
04-19-2013, 02:51 PM
Speed matters in the Tampa 2. MLBs for the Tampa 2 cover the middle of the field, much like a traditional cover 3. The confusion it caused in the early 2000s was due to QBs reading what the two safeties were doing, declearing cover 2, and throwing the deep drag, in, shallow post, etc....only to have it picked off by the unseen mlb playing underneath.
In that instance the able to cover a lot of ground deep and enough speed to come up and lay the lumber on runs is imperative. I like ogletree the best for this job. His range is well known but is just average in tackling when OL get a hand on him. Te'o will also be good. I think his skills are being ignored as he has become a running joke...the kid can ball.

The seam route is the primary concern for me in our system. The Mike has to be fluid in the hips to turn and run with the TE on that seam route. The mike has a lot of ground to cover in the middle and Ogletree would be great at that his problem will be in the run game. Teo is the opposite to me, I am not sure he can cover TE and backs, can he be where he needs to be? A big concern if we draft him.

HEY
04-19-2013, 04:03 PM
Just to make myself clear :) I didn't mean that I don't understand why a MLB playing OLB in a 4-3 struggles. That's natural when someone plays out of his most familiar position. What I meant is that I don't understand why the dip in performance is that significant. I mean, a great player should still perform at a high level.

Take Kuechely for example, he's faster than any of this year's top inside linebackers and would have been drafted way higher than any of these guys if he came out this year. He had an amazing college career and his NFL career is already off to an incredibly impressive start. He even played OLB in his freshmen year and still was the the best linebacker on the team. Even so, he was much better when he switched to the inside last season.


Speed matters alot at the MIKE
Really... NO! Sure I know everything is relevant, but I would really not say that a MLB's speed matters "alot". C'mon! There's a reason why two of this year's top 3 linebackers are out-runned by two 300 + offensive linemen in this year's draft class. Speed is just not very valued in an inside linebacker. Quickness however that's far more prioritized.

Fun side-fact: Based on 40 times, none of this years top 5 inside linebackers can catch Christian Ponder in a foot race. :)

Purple Floyd
04-19-2013, 09:19 PM
But they all can outrun one of his throws lol

RK.
04-19-2013, 11:30 PM
But they all can outrun one of his throws lol

Nice :rofl:

vikinggreg
04-20-2013, 01:23 AM
I don't watch college ball, but I would have to think if you are one of the top players in contention for a Heisman, you're a pretty damn good player.


Tim liked it the first time you said that but he's starting to blush

478

vikinggreg
04-20-2013, 01:29 AM
But they all can outrun one of his throws lol

If T'eo can't I'm sure he'll hold a press conference to lets us know why

kevoncox
04-20-2013, 09:08 AM
Just to make myself clear :) I didn't mean that I don't understand why a MLB playing OLB in a 4-3 struggles. That's natural when someone plays out of his most familiar position. What I meant is that I don't understand why the dip in performance is that significant. I mean, a great player should still perform at a high level.

Take Kuechely for example, he's faster than any of this year's top inside linebackers and would have been drafted way higher than any of these guys if he came out this year. He had an amazing college career and his NFL career is already off to an incredibly impressive start. He even played OLB in his freshmen year and still was the the best linebacker on the team. Even so, he was much better when he switched to the inside last season.


Really... NO! Sure I know everything is relevant, but I would really not say that a MLB's speed matters "alot". C'mon! There's a reason why two of this year's top 3 linebackers are out-runned by two 300 + offensive linemen in this year's draft class. Speed is just not very valued in an inside linebacker. Quickness however that's far more prioritized.

Fun side-fact: Based on 40 times, none of this years top 5 inside linebackers can catch Christian Ponder in a foot race. :)

To answer your question, It almost always ends on who is covering who.
The OLB ends up coving a Slot WR or the TE. It's a much more athletic position.
Middle Lbs routinely cover the RB/FB when they go man. Now this isn't a golden rule because defenses are complicated and offenses build motions ands shifts to build an advantage.

HEY
04-20-2013, 11:37 AM
The OLB ends up coving a Slot WR or the TE. It's a much more athletic position.
Middle Lbs routinely cover the RB/FB when they go man. Now this isn't a golden rule because defenses are complicated and offenses build motions ands shifts to build an advantage.
Yes, true. And on that note, the OLB has a much tougher job covering the TE/slot receiver than the MLB has covering the running back.

singersp
04-21-2013, 09:21 AM
Weak ILB group as they all have weaknesses. I think Bostic could be used on third down and defintely Ogletree. With this class, why didn't we just stay with Brinkley is my question? I am not convinced Ogletree can play the mike in the NFL. He can get caught up in the wash, he likes to use his shoulder instead of using his hands to shed a block. I don't really like our options for MIKE, Ogletree, I think will be a very good OLB in the NFL so if he doesn't make it in the middle, we can move him outside.

I think they would have been OK staying with Brinkley as well. Why create yet another hole in your starting line-up that you now need to plug via the draft/FA in addition to already having several needs already? Do they believe Cole can fill that role if the MLB they draft doesn't work out?

It's a crap-shoot whether or not the player you draft will be better than the one you let walk & rather than improve your team, you may have set them back. Find your replacement first & if he proves to be better, then make the move.

jargomcfargo
04-21-2013, 12:16 PM
I think they would have been OK staying with Brinkley as well. Why create yet another hole in your starting line-up that you now need to plug via the draft/FA in addition to already having several needs already? Do they believe Cole can fill that role if the MLB they draft doesn't work out?

It's a crap-shoot whether or not the player you draft will be better than the one you let walk & rather than improve your team, you may have set them back. Find your replacement first & if he proves to be better, then make the move.

Agreed, this is another head scratcher. Some think Henderson could move to the middle if needed, but he wasn't successful last year when he did it.
They didn't think Brinkley was a three down backer so they didn't want to pay him.
But it would seem to put the Vikings in a position where they have to draft based on need more so than best player available. That can lead to reaching.
I guess we wont have to wait long to see.

tarkenton10
04-22-2013, 10:48 AM
Just to make myself clear :) I didn't mean that I don't understand why a MLB playing OLB in a 4-3 struggles. That's natural when someone plays out of his most familiar position. What I meant is that I don't understand why the dip in performance is that significant. I mean, a great player should still perform at a high level.

Take Kuechely for example, he's faster than any of this year's top inside linebackers and would have been drafted way higher than any of these guys if he came out this year. He had an amazing college career and his NFL career is already off to an incredibly impressive start. He even played OLB in his freshmen year and still was the the best linebacker on the team. Even so, he was much better when he switched to the inside last season.


Really... NO! Sure I know everything is relevant, but I would really not say that a MLB's speed matters "alot". C'mon! There's a reason why two of this year's top 3 linebackers are out-runned by two 300 + offensive linemen in this year's draft class. Speed is just not very valued in an inside linebacker. Quickness however that's far more prioritized.

Fun side-fact: Based on 40 times, none of this years top 5 inside linebackers can catch Christian Ponder in a foot race. :)

Speed does matter, that's why you see Teo' continuing to fall in this draft. After his forty time he went from top 15 to the back end of round 1. Yeah, you will find exceptions to the rule but as a rule you need to find a MLB with some speed in a tampa 2. You will also find a MLB that is slow but with great instincts and gets to his zone but you are talking about the exception and not the rule.

tarkenton10
04-22-2013, 10:53 AM
I think they would have been OK staying with Brinkley as well. Why create yet another hole in your starting line-up that you now need to plug via the draft/FA in addition to already having several needs already? Do they believe Cole can fill that role if the MLB they draft doesn't work out?

It's a crap-shoot whether or not the player you draft will be better than the one you let walk & rather than improve your team, you may have set them back. Find your replacement first & if he proves to be better, then make the move.

I don't know if Cole can replace Brinkley but he is very similar in speed and hitting ability. I do have to say that in the little I saw of Cole he seemed way more instinctive than Brinkley in coverage. Granted, it was just a small sample so we really don't know what we have in Cole.

tarkenton10
04-22-2013, 11:11 AM
Just to make myself clear :) I didn't mean that I don't understand why a MLB playing OLB in a 4-3 struggles. That's natural when someone plays out of his most familiar position. What I meant is that I don't understand why the dip in performance is that significant. I mean, a great player should still perform at a high level.

Take Kuechely for example, he's faster than any of this year's top inside linebackers and would have been drafted way higher than any of these guys if he came out this year. He had an amazing college career and his NFL career is already off to an incredibly impressive start. He even played OLB in his freshmen year and still was the the best linebacker on the team. Even so, he was much better when he switched to the inside last season.


Really... NO! Sure I know everything is relevant, but I would really not say that a MLB's speed matters "alot". C'mon! There's a reason why two of this year's top 3 linebackers are out-runned by two 300 + offensive linemen in this year's draft class. Speed is just not very valued in an inside linebacker. Quickness however that's far more prioritized.

Fun side-fact: Based on 40 times, none of this years top 5 inside linebackers can catch Christian Ponder in a foot race. :)

This article breaks down what each player is expected to do and what their skillset should be in that defense.


4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%933_defense)


The 4–3 defense relies on having a sure tackler at the middle linebacker spot. Most notably, Monte Kiffin's “Tampa Cover 2” scheme makes high demands on the MLB, requiring him to have above-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11–20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the runs.[5]

HEY
04-22-2013, 11:58 AM
Thanks for the read, but with that being said, I don't need an article to know what our MLB's job is. Hey, this is a crazy idea who gives an even more accurate description: Why not watch the games? :crazy:

All jokes aside (with underlying truth), since this is a Manti Te'o thread. Should it come to a decision between speed (which I already proved is not much of a difference among this year's inside 'backers) and instinct, instinct is my first choice. And Te'o shows great instincts in zone coverage.

.. but I have a feeling that we are all a bit ahead of ourselves here. First of all, how do you define speed? In football terminology, my opinion is that "speed" is the how fast the player runs at his maximum, "explosion" is how fast the player moves in one movement, and "quickness" is how fast the player reaches his maximum.

Out of all those three, quickness is the most important ability of a linebacker. What most people tend to not know is that Te'o has solid quickness. The ten yard split is a much better indicator of quickness than the 40 yard dash. Manti Te'o had the same ten yard split at the Combine as Ogletree.

kevoncox
04-22-2013, 12:12 PM
Thanks for the read, but with that being said, I don't need an article to know what our MLB's job is. Hey, this is a crazy idea who gives an even more accurate description: Why not watch the games? :crazy:

All jokes aside (with underlying truth), since this is a Manti Te'o thread. Should it come to a decision between speed (which I already proved is not much of a difference among this year's inside 'backers) and instinct, instinct is my first choice. And Te'o shows great instincts in zone coverage.

.. but I have a feeling that we are all a bit ahead of ourselves here. First of all, how do you define speed? In football terminology, my opinion is that "speed" is the how fast the player runs at his maximum, "explosion" is how fast the player moves in one movement, and "quickness" is how fast the player reaches his maximum.

Out of all those three, quickness is the most important ability of a linebacker. What most people tend to not know is that Te'o has solid quickness. The ten yard split is a much better indicator of quickness than the 40 yard dash. Manti Te'o had the same ten yard split at the Combine as Ogletree.
:clap:

jargomcfargo
04-22-2013, 12:23 PM
This article breaks down what each player is expected to do and what their skillset should be in that defense.


4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%933_defense)


The 4–3 defense relies on having a sure tackler at the middle linebacker spot. Most notably, Monte Kiffin's “Tampa Cover 2” scheme makes high demands on the MLB, requiring him to have above-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11–20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the runs.[5]

Urlacher was the best cover 2 MLB I have seen prior to his knee problems. He had the size and strength to play the run effectively, the intelligence and instincts to QB the defense, and the speed to cover the deep middle of his zone as well as run from sideline to sideline.
Urlacher ran a 4.54 and 4.59 at the combine. That's significantly faster than T'eo.
Urlacher was almost 20 pounds heavier as well.
However, Te'o has quickness as evidenced in the 20 yd shuttle and three cone drill that is only a little slower than Urlacher.
I think Te'o could be a good MLB for the Vikings but doubt he will be a perrenial pro bowler.
I expect he will be an upgrade at the position.

tarkenton10
04-22-2013, 02:17 PM
Thanks for the read, but with that being said, I don't need an article to know what our MLB's job is. Hey, this is a crazy idea who gives an even more accurate description: Why not watch the games? :crazy:

All jokes aside (with underlying truth), since this is a Manti Te'o thread. Should it come to a decision between speed (which I already proved is not much of a difference among this year's inside 'backers) and instinct, instinct is my first choice. And Te'o shows great instincts in zone coverage.

.. but I have a feeling that we are all a bit ahead of ourselves here. First of all, how do you define speed? In football terminology, my opinion is that "speed" is the how fast the player runs at his maximum, "explosion" is how fast the player moves in one movement, and "quickness" is how fast the player reaches his maximum.

Out of all those three, quickness is the most important ability of a linebacker. What most people tend to not know is that Te'o has solid quickness. The ten yard split is a much better indicator of quickness than the 40 yard dash. Manti Te'o had the same ten yard split at the Combine as Ogletree.

The trouble is most NFL franchises are not going by your definition but the article's definition when drafting players. I watched many of those guys play and that is one of the reasons I don't want to draft them with our first round pick.

HEY
04-22-2013, 03:28 PM
The trouble is most NFL franchises are not going by your definition but the article's definition when drafting players. I watched many of those guys play and that is one of the reasons I don't want to draft them with our first round pick.
Haha okay, I don't wanna rip you tarkenton (I like you), buuuuut...
... First of all, there is absolutely NO explaining of the definition of speed anywhere in that article!
... Second, are you really saying that when a team is looking to draft a player they are going to search on wikipedia for what player they should draft? LOL!
... Third, you linked to WIKIPEDIA. I don't think highly professional teams would even use an unofficial source that anyone can write.
... Fourth, there are no plain black and white schemes in the NFL. Every coach' scheme is different. Sure, there are some basics to go after, but every coach has his preferences and schemes are often tweaked based on personnel.

I think I was nice on you here ;)

HEY
04-22-2013, 03:35 PM
Urlacher was the best cover 2 MLB I have seen prior to his knee problems. He had the size and strength to play the run effectively, the intelligence and instincts to QB the defense, and the speed to cover the deep middle of his zone as well as run from sideline to sideline.
Urlacher ran a 4.54 and 4.59 at the combine. That's significantly faster than T'eo.
Urlacher was almost 20 pounds heavier as well.
However, Te'o has quickness as evidenced in the 20 yd shuttle and three cone drill that is only a little slower than Urlacher.
I think Te'o could be a good MLB for the Vikings but doubt he will be a perrenial pro bowler.
I expect he will be an upgrade at the position.
Good post! Yeah, Urlacher was a beast in his prime! He was a great MLB in that type of scheme. Urlacher looked like a defensive end, was very fast for his size, and could cover AND stop the run. If not for injuries I think he would have given Ray Lewis good competition for the best middle linebacker of the last century.

As for Te'o, it's funny because most people seem to question Manti's cover abilities. I question his abilities too, but NOT the cover abilities. What I'm a little uncertain of is how he will attack the elite big blockers of the NFL. Guess time will only show. :)

tarkenton10
04-22-2013, 03:39 PM
Haha okay, I don't wanna rip you tarkenton (I like you), buuuuut...
... First of all, there is absolutely NO explaining of the definition of speed anywhere in that article!
... Second, are you really saying that when a team is looking to draft a player they are going to search on wikipedia for what player they should draft? LOL!
... Third, you linked to WIKIPEDIA. I don't think highly professional teams would even use an unofficial source that anyone can write.
... Fourth, there are no plain black and white schemes in the NFL. Every coach' scheme is different. Sure, there are some basics to go after, but every coach has his preferences and schemes are often tweaked based on personnel.

I think I was nice on you here ;)

The wiki definition is what the basic skillset is needed, the NFL teams use those skillsets. Of course the NFL isn't going by a Wiki article the article explains the NFL and the defense. I gave the paragraph that said in a tampa two a MLB should have above average speed and outlined a Tampa two. You may have been nice but it didn't make sense, you have everything backwards.

If you don't like that then tell me what skillset should a MLB in a tampa two have. Many critics have repeatedly said Henderson was too slow for our scheme, Brinkley was too slow for our scheme, do you know what they ran in the forty?

HEY
04-22-2013, 04:15 PM
The wiki definition is what the basic skillset is needed, the NFL teams use those skillsets. Of course the NFL isn't going by a Wiki article the article explains the NFL and the defense. I gave the paragraph that said in a tampa two a MLB should have above average speed and outlined a Tampa two. You may have been nice but it didn't make sense, you have everything backwards.

If you don't like that then tell me what skillset should a MLB in a tampa two have. Many critics have repeatedly said Henderson was too slow for our scheme, Brinkley was too slow for our scheme, do you know what they ran in the forty?
No no, I agree that's about what we want from the MLB in our scheme. Haha I just took it the way you said it. It just doesn't seem like you recognize that speed has sub-categories. When the article you refereed to talk about speed I'm pretty sure it means short area-quickness. (and not 100 meters Usain Bolt speed)

tarkenton10
04-23-2013, 12:32 PM
No no, I agree that's about what we want from the MLB in our scheme. Haha I just took it the way you said it. It just doesn't seem like you recognize that speed has sub-categories. When the article you refereed to talk about speed I'm pretty sure it means short area-quickness. (and not 100 meters Usain Bolt speed)

Agreed.