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singersp
02-10-2013, 08:21 AM
Mike Max Says Vikings Will Try To Trade Percy Harvin


Multiple sources tell Max that Harvin had an embarrassing tirade directed toward Frasier.......


Teammates were present, and Max was told that is when Harvin left the team and was put on injured reserve.

MaxVike
02-10-2013, 09:15 AM
Mike Max Says Vikings Will Try To Trade Percy Harvin

Found this link...thought I'd add it, there's a little, not much, more info in the article. Mike Max Says Vikings Will Try To Trade Percy Harvin ę CBS Minnesota (http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/02/09/max-says-vikings-may-try-to-trade-percy-harvin/)

Well now, that explains why he went to Florida. Not the greatest thing for a Viking fan to wake up to on a Sunday...

I can't imagine a more disappointing outcome...

singersp
02-10-2013, 09:32 AM
I can't imagine a more disappointing outcome...

Unfortunately, I can.

Given Spielman's FA track record for signing viable players, it's not looking good for this FA.

We're going to need at least 2 damn good WR's to be signed this offseason one of which needs to be a deep threat receiver, the other to replace Harvin & the production we got out of him.

Right now on the roster the WR's we have signed are Jenkins, Wright & Burton.

Here's how last year's FA went.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/singersp82759/2012FA_zpsd4d7754e.jpg

Other than our own players that were resigned, Felton looks to be the only keeper one out of 10 & now Spielman has got to try & keep him since he is a FA & will be higher in demand.

MaxVike
02-10-2013, 09:53 AM
Unfortunately, I can.

Given Spielman's FA track record for signing viable players, it's not looking good for this FA.

We're going to need at least 2 damn good WR's to be signed this offseason one of which needs to be a deep threat receiver, the other to replace Harvin & the production we got out of him.

Right now on the roster the WR's we have signed are Jenkins, Wright & Burton.

Here's how last year's FA went.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/singersp82759/2012FA_zpsd4d7754e.jpg

Other than our own players that were resigned, Felton looks to be the only keeper one out of 10 & now Spielman has got to try & keep him since he is a FA & will be higher in demand.

I really meant the outcome of being basically forced to trade a malcontent. I love watching Percy play, especially for the Vikes...but, behavior like described simply cannot be tolerated. Which, is extremely disappointing to me. I'd rather he suddenly grow up.

Re: FA and Spielman's track record...I will bet you a case of Hamm's that Felton will be blocking for AD this season.

Spot on, and, I've been in agreement with you re: wide receivers. A Harvin trade better bring a starting WR, or, some high draft picks...preferably a starting WR.

thorshammer
02-10-2013, 10:42 AM
I'm not sure I'm buying this. That being said Harvin needs to grow up. If he hasn't learned anything let him go.

singersp
02-10-2013, 10:51 AM
I really meant the outcome of being basically forced to trade a malcontent. I love watching Percy play, especially for the Vikes...but, behavior like described simply cannot be tolerated. Which, is extremely disappointing to me. I'd rather he suddenly grow up.

Re: FA and Spielman's track record...I will bet you a case of Hamm's that Felton will be blocking for AD this season.

Spot on, and, I've been in agreement with you re: wide receivers. A Harvin trade better bring a starting WR, or, some high draft picks...preferably a starting WR.

I bet he will be too, but we need to get him resigned first.

RK.
02-10-2013, 11:19 AM
But...But......I thought Harvin was "In a good frame of mind". LOL

mountainviking
02-10-2013, 01:48 PM
I still think it could go either way. Yes he deserves more money, but how do you give a guy a big signing bonus when you aren't sure how much or long he can be trusted!? Like I said, he could have a change of heart, given the success of the team without him, and him knowing he could be a big part of making them even better. Or he could just really want to go back home with a fat contract and/or maybe he really wants to be The Guy and he won't feel that here with Mr. Peterson...?

I've been thinking about possible destinations...not just where would he fit in best, but who has a good enough team to lose half of their draft picks and not miss them too much.

New England, duh, good team, young & improving defense and could really use a new star receiver. They probably have some extra picks somewhere too.

Miami, has the need, and tons of cap room and some extra draft picks due to trading away Brandon Marshall (2nd) and that CB to IND (3rd). And, PH gets to be closer to mama.

Houston? What the fuck could he do as a 1b with Andre? They've got a lot of other pieces already in place...

Any other ideas?

NodakPaul
02-10-2013, 02:45 PM
I am actually OK with this. I would love to unload Harvin for a couple of early draft picks. Don't get me wrong - I love Harvin and the kid is an amazing player. But obviously we can win without him, and if he is causing issues on the sideline then we might be better off without him. and it isn't like this was the first time...

Harvin apparently had a similar incident when Childress coached the team.

Speilman was on KFAN the other morning, and they specifically asked about Harvin. Spielman said that Harvin was a "blue chip player" and "obviously they try to keep their blue chip players." But when asked specifically if Harvin was going to be traded, he just repeated that answer over and over again.

I am convinced that Harvin is on the trade block, and I am good with it. Obviously a first round pick would be worth it. Would a second and a third? Second and fourth? IDK. It depends on how much interest there is.

How about Harvin for Smith? Would that be a decent trade?

mountainviking
02-10-2013, 04:42 PM
I don't think you trade blue-chip MVP possibilities for just a pick, or for 2 mid round picks. I'm thinking propper value would be Miami's first round pick, no.12, and the later of their two 2nds and 3rds. OR, swap firsts with Miami, and take their earlier 2nd and 3rd. That would give us nearly a top ten pick (12,11,12? and DET's 5) in the first 4 rounds and leave us with double picks in the 2, 3, 4! As in, plenty ammo to move around, draft 2 WRs and improve depth at several aging defensive positions.

Alex Smith is not worth Percy Harvin...especially with our wagon all tied to Ponder like they keep saying it is. Alex Smith and their first and third perhaps...?

Mr Anderson
02-10-2013, 04:48 PM
All my Jets fan friends want him. They're supposedly trying to trade one of their corners.

I wouldn't mind getting either one of those guys, that's for sure. Revis and Cromartie are 27 and 28 respectively. Revis needs a new contract, as does Harvin. He's also coming off of knee surgery for a torn acl, so his value is as low as it will probably ever be. Cro is already paid, and played really well last season.

ConnecticutViking
02-10-2013, 04:58 PM
Revis is damaged goods. Was the best corner in football, but coming off of a knee injury. If he is healthy, I would take Revis for Harvin, but not sure if I would roll the dice. Cromartie, yes, I would take him. There are a lot of teams looking to trade for Harvin...we have the ability here to strengthen at least two positions. Let him go, when he is in the game, Ponder looks to him and only him. When he is out, he was able to spread it around.

NodakPaul
02-10-2013, 05:23 PM
I don't think you trade blue-chip MVP possibilities for just a pick, or for 2 mid round picks. I'm thinking propper value would be Miami's first round pick, no.12, and the later of their two 2nds and 3rds. OR, swap firsts with Miami, and take their earlier 2nd and 3rd. That would give us nearly a top ten pick (12,11,12? and DET's 5) in the first 4 rounds and leave us with double picks in the 3, 4, 5! As in, plenty ammo to move around, draft 2 WRs and improve depth at several aging defensive positions.

Alex Smith is not worth Percy Harvin...especially with our wagon all tied to Ponder like they keep saying it is. Alex Smith and their first and third perhaps...?

Your first scenario has Harvin for a 1, 2 and 3. Never happen. He is a great player, he isn't worth that much. Few players are.

I could see a combo of your two scenarios working out. Harvin and our 1st for their 1st and their late 2nd and 3rd. I think that would be pretty fair value, and Miami would still have a pick in each round. Everybody wins.

idahovikefan7
02-10-2013, 05:26 PM
I don't know how I feel about this report. I'd hate to see Harvin leave. Such an explosive play maker that can take it to the house at any moment.

But he really needs to get his crap together and grow up a little. Things aren't always going to go your way, and he doesn't seem to accept that.

I was hoping the "good state of mind" report was a hint he realized his wrong doings and was going to make a change. At the moment these are still only rumors, but I honestly don't see him staying. He's obviously not happy here after already requesting to be traded.

Either way I'm sure we will be fine with or without him. The games he missed last year were proof. I'm happy with the direction Frazier is trying to bring this TEAM. The "all about me" type players are not wanted.

Tad7
02-10-2013, 06:47 PM
I know teams are gonna be worried about his attitude, the migraines, his injuries, and him needing a new contract.

Anything less than a 2nd round pick and I'd keep him in Minnesota. He has everything incentive to play his ass off and pretend to be happy because it could cost him so many millions to do otherwise.

singersp
02-10-2013, 08:01 PM
I know teams are gonna be worried about his attitude, the migraines, his injuries, and him needing a new contract.


Worrying about Harvin's migraines is like worrying about Peterson's fumblitis.

Both are history.

singersp
02-10-2013, 08:27 PM
I am actually OK with this. I would love to unload Harvin for a couple of early draft picks. Don't get me wrong - I love Harvin and the kid is an amazing player. But obviously we can win without him, and if he is causing issues on the sideline then we might be better off without him.

Sure we have won without him, but not because another receiver stepped up & took his place. We can't keep on relying on just AD to carry this team.

Since the Bye week with Harvin gone, Ponder has only averaged 151 YPG passing to AD's 161 YPG rushing.

Ponder also only threw 6 TD's in 6 games, 3 of which occurred in 1 of those 6 games, while the remaining 3 TD's were thrown over the course of 5 games. AD had 5 rushing TD's in those 6 games.

I don't think with a passing game like that we will see 10 wins next year without having a suitable replacement for Harvin plus an additional reliable WR.

Even Webb had 180 yards in his playoff game with 1 TD, which is higher than Ponders 151 yards, 1 TD avg since the bye. The difference is Ponder completed 4.5 more passes per game and AD was held to under 100 yards in the playoff game.

Right now, without Harvin, our WR corp is down to just Jenkins, Burton & Wright.

NDVikingFan66
02-10-2013, 08:41 PM
I hate to see Harvin go, but I was disappointed in how the end of the season played out with him. The man is a stud, plays through injury, but he does need to grow up a bit. I just hope we get some decent trade value for him.

singersp
02-10-2013, 08:58 PM
I hate to see Harvin go, but I was disappointed in how the end of the season played out with him. The man is a stud, plays through injury, but he does need to grow up a bit. I just hope we get some decent trade value for him.


Well we got Troy Williamson for Moss. I wonder what we'll get for Harvin?

Culpepper_4717
02-10-2013, 09:55 PM
Well we got Troy Williamson for Moss. I wonder what we'll get for Harvin?
Probably Moss

Chanse503
02-10-2013, 09:59 PM
A Harvin for Revis sure does make alot of sense right about now.
This would have to be straight up and no picks involved, but is really a win win for both squads in regards to needs and trade partners not being in the same divison kinda deal.
I can't really think of another active deal not involving draft picks off the top of my head.

NDVikingFan66
02-10-2013, 10:00 PM
Well we got Troy Williamson for Moss. I wonder what we'll get for Harvin?

Napoleon Harris?

marstc09
02-10-2013, 10:11 PM
Anything less than a 1st round pick would ridiculous. Having 2 first round picks would be interesting. As long as we sign a big name like Jennings or Bowe we should be ok. Draft a WR and DL in the first. Sign a decent FA CB. I think Wright can be a Harvin with less drama.

i_bleed_purple
02-10-2013, 10:21 PM
I'm really not wild about Harvin for Revis.

Corners really struggle coming back from serious knee injuries, we have NO idea what Revis will be like. For all we know he's done, or just a shell of his former self.

Cromartie would be nice, but you have to remember even he's getting up there in age.

What would be nice, is one of the corners from Seattle and picks. THink about it, we get a big body that can cover and hit, they get a reliable receiver to build in their offense. Arrange a package of picks to even the trade.

People are crazy if they think we'll get anything close to what we think Harvin is worth. He's a) on his final year of a contract that WILL get expensive, b) somewhat injury prone and c) has a big attitude problem. Talk of two firsts is way out of the realm of possibility.

Chanse503
02-10-2013, 10:31 PM
[QUOTE=i_bleed_purple;1136116]

What would be nice, is one of the corners from Seattle and picks. THink about it, we get a big body that can cover and hit, they get a reliable receiver to build in their offense. Arrange a package of picks to even the trade.

[QUOTE]

Yeah, that's a dam nice situation. I most definately on board with either Sherman or Browner. Love the big, physical corner.

vikesrgreat2
02-11-2013, 05:49 AM
Jacksonville. Put him with Blackmon. Fleece the Jaguars in the trade - make them have to PAY DEARLY to get Harvin!

vikesrgreat2
02-11-2013, 06:00 AM
How about trading our #23 first-round pick plus Harvin to the Jaguars for their first-round pick? Percy goes back home to Florida and can catch passes from whoever is QB down there, and we can take that high first-round pick and select a REALLY good defensive player (e.g. Star L. from Utah). Comments, anyone?

singersp
02-11-2013, 06:45 AM
Vikings will actively pursue Percy Harvin trade

Report: Vikings will actively pursue Percy Harvin trade - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000137929/article/report-vikings-will-actively-pursue-percy-harvin-trade)


Considering his baggage, an NFL personnel man estimated that Harvin would fetch just a second- or third-round pick in return

marshallvike
02-11-2013, 08:33 AM
I'm really not wild about Harvin for Revis.

Corners really struggle coming back from serious knee injuries, we have NO idea what Revis will be like. For all we know he's done, or just a shell of his former self.

Cromartie would be nice, but you have to remember even he's getting up there in age.

What would be nice, is one of the corners from Seattle and picks. THink about it, we get a big body that can cover and hit, they get a reliable receiver to build in their offense. Arrange a package of picks to even the trade.

People are crazy if they think we'll get anything close to what we think Harvin is worth. He's a) on his final year of a contract that WILL get expensive, b) somewhat injury prone and c) has a big attitude problem. Talk of two firsts is way out of the realm of possibility.

If that ends up being the case, it is not worth it to trade him.
Unless he is that big a locker room cancer.
It could end up being similar to Cris Carters situation when he was young. He was enough of a problem that Ryan had to get rid of him despite his talent.

Purple Floyd
02-11-2013, 09:47 AM
It could end up being similar to Cris Carters situation when he was young. He was enough of a problem that Ryan had to get rid of him despite his talent.

In Ryan's defense all CC did was catch TD's.:rofl:

mountainviking
02-11-2013, 10:59 AM
If that ends up being the case, it is not worth it to trade him.
Unless he is that big a locker room cancer.
It could end up being similar to Cris Carters situation when he was young. He was enough of a problem that Ryan had to get rid of him despite his talent.

That's the way I see it too. No Fuckin way do you part with a first round pick who was Offensive Rookie of the year, has totally out-performed his draft slot and contract, and who plays three positions well for just a 2 or a 3!! When he left the game mid-season, he was leading the league in catches, yards after the catch, and return yards! He's our no.1 WR, our 1b returner, and our 2b RB! That is 3 positions that he makes better!!! It hurts to stoop this low even, but I'll call a minimum of two 2nd round picks as the lowest I'll go...probably, I'd try to line up a 2nd this year and a sliding 1-2 next year based on likely to be made parameters.

Nobody wants to pony up? We say fine and keep him and give it one more try to make it work. IF he turns into even more of a headache he hurts his own value as a free agent next year. IF he doesn't play this year, the contract doesn't just go away, does it?

Five potential landing spots for Percy Harvin - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000137949/article/five-potential-landing-spots-for-percy-harvin)

In fact, I see Miami and New England as quite potentially, the two biggest bidders, and they are in the same division, so we get them going head-to-head, and I think we get a nice package. Hopefully, enough to rebuild our aging Defense and add a couple of young playmakers to the offense. And then we can also think about adding a guy like Jennings or Welker on a 2-3 year deal to help mentor our young guys, Wright included.

For the love of God just don't turn this into another Moss for Williamson type of deal. We've been trying to recover from that ooops for what, ten years now!!???

mountainviking
02-11-2013, 12:26 PM
Will stadium vote cause the Dolphins to have more urgency this offseason to impress fans, voters? | Miami Dolphins In Depth (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/02/this-morning-the-dolphins-will-make-official-what-the-miami-herald-confirmed-on-saturday-namely-that-the-teams-attempt-to-se.html)


Hey, how about checking out the trade market, too. Percy Harvin might be out there. Explore, it! (I'm not ready to push for that move per se. But at least explore. Don't sit in a dark film room studying tape of the right guard from New Mexico, when freaking Percy Harvin is dangling out there.)


They already know him down there...does that excite fans and sell tickets!?? Or, make them nervous about his purported history of outbursts?

mountainviking
02-11-2013, 12:28 PM
Hey, how about checking out the trade market, too. Percy Harvin might be out there. Explore, it! (I'm not ready to push for that move per se. But at least explore. Don't sit in a dark film room studying tape of the right guard from New Mexico, when freaking Percy Harvin is dangling out there.)

Read more here: Will stadium vote cause the Dolphins to have more urgency this offseason to impress fans, voters? | Miami Dolphins In Depth (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/02/this-morning-the-dolphins-will-make-official-what-the-miami-herald-confirmed-on-saturday-namely-that-the-teams-attempt-to-se.html#storylink=cpy)

They already know him down there and he'd be really close to home. But, does that excite the fans and sell tickets? Or, does his purported history of outbursts scare them too much?

jmcdon00
02-11-2013, 12:43 PM
I think we need to keep Harvin. I don't give a crap if he's unhappy.
He's under contract, if you start letting players out of their contracts early because they are unhappy you are going to end up with more unhappy players.
If you give into Harvin for acting like a child, what message does that send to Rudolph and his agent?

C Mac D
02-11-2013, 12:58 PM
Harvin is an amazing talent but also a whiny brat. I'm not that broken-up about losing him.

Although, whoever gets him will win the Super Bowl next year.

Mr Anderson
02-11-2013, 02:02 PM
I think we need to keep Harvin. I don't give a crap if he's unhappy.
He's under contract, if you start letting players out of their contracts early because they are unhappy you are going to end up with more unhappy players.
If you give into Harvin for acting like a child, what message does that send to Rudolph and his agent?
If they're in the final year of that contract and will walk away after it, why not trade him? It's not like he has 4 years left on his deal. If he's really unhappy and we force him to play here for another year, we will get nothing for him when he walks as an unrestricted free agent after next season.

I'm all for the "don't budge on whiners demands" attitude, but Harvin is not making any. He's not holding out, at least he hasn't threatened to yet. Right now everything is quiet. We all think he's unhappy, he hasn't said it though, at least not since last summer. All we know is that his ankle's fine and he's one hell of a player.

His value is high, and he's not coming back when he hits the open market. I really wish we could just give him a long term deal and both sides were all smiles. Harvin might be my favorite player on the team right now, as much as I love watching Peterson and JA and got excited for Harrison Smith this season, Harvin is something else. I really don't want to see him go, but if he's going to, I want something in return. Actually, I want a lot in return.

idahovikefan7
02-11-2013, 03:53 PM
Percy Harvin reportedly plans Vikings contract holdout


Percy Harvin's relationship with the Minnesota Vikings already is on shaky ground -- and it could get worse soon.

Pro Football Talk reported Monday that Harvin is expected to "stay away" from offseason workouts and training camp if the Vikings don't give him a contract extension.


Percy Harvin reportedly plans Vikings contract holdout - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000138139/article/percy-harvin-reportedly-plans-vikings-contract-holdout)

midgensa
02-11-2013, 04:09 PM
It is really simple. Just pay the man.

He deserves the money. I am not a huge fan of being held hostage. I know that he is "under contract." But we should AT THE VERY LEAST make a fair offer to him and try to show that we are serious about paying him for the talent that he is.

I have posted a couple times that we should make him a fair offer and then hold him hostage in return. And I firmly believe that. If he won't sign a fair offer. Let him whine, franchise his ass next season ... and force him to play TWO MORE injury free seasons if he wants to get a longterm deal elsewhere.

But the best thing for EVERYONE involved is to sign the guy. Sign him to a 6 year contract or so and just get it done.

Purple Floyd
02-11-2013, 04:42 PM
It is really simple. Just pay the man.

He deserves the money. I am not a huge fan of being held hostage. I know that he is "under contract." But we should AT THE VERY LEAST make a fair offer to him and try to show that we are serious about paying him for the talent that he is.

I have posted a couple times that we should make him a fair offer and then hold him hostage in return. And I firmly believe that. If he won't sign a fair offer. Let him whine, franchise his ass next season ... and force him to play TWO MORE injury free seasons if he wants to get a longterm deal elsewhere.

But the best thing for EVERYONE involved is to sign the guy. Sign him to a 6 year contract or so and just get it done.


I pretty much agree. Go to him and offer him a very fair contract(big) and see if he takes it. That will show him respect. If he takes it then great, we have him locked in. If he says no, then trade him (maybe to a crappy team like Cleveland or Oakland so he can see how good he had it). and move on.

It does nobody any good to fight it out with a holdout and a long contract battle. Either show him the money or the door.

MaxVike
02-11-2013, 08:09 PM
It is really simple. Just pay the man.

He deserves the money. I am not a huge fan of being held hostage. I know that he is "under contract." But we should AT THE VERY LEAST make a fair offer to him and try to show that we are serious about paying him for the talent that he is.

I have posted a couple times that we should make him a fair offer and then hold him hostage in return. And I firmly believe that. If he won't sign a fair offer. Let him whine, franchise his ass next season ... and force him to play TWO MORE injury free seasons if he wants to get a longterm deal elsewhere.

But the best thing for EVERYONE involved is to sign the guy. Sign him to a 6 year contract or so and just get it done.

I don't agree at all. Dude disrespected the man in charge in front of other players, who, have voiced their disappointment. In any Organization, that disrespectful behavior simply cannot be tolerated...PERIOD. If he isn't part of the Team, or, the Program, then, he needs to go. The Vikings don't owe him anything, and, would be fucking crazy to show a player that displayed what appears to be the biggest disrespect of all, blowing up, leaving the Team, going home, which, basically forced the Vikes to put him on IR. What part of that scenario indicates to you that Harvin "deserves" the money. The Vikings players, coaches, us fans, and the front office deserve better.

If the report is erroneous (which, I doubt), then, I see it your way. If it is accurate, it is simple, he needs to go.

NodakPaul
02-11-2013, 08:36 PM
I don't agree at all. Dude disrespected the man in charge in front of other players, who, have voiced their disappointment. In any Organization, that disrespectful behavior simply cannot be tolerated...PERIOD. If he isn't part of the Team, or, the Program, then, he needs to go. The Vikings don't owe him anything, and, would be fucking crazy to show a player that displayed what appears to be the biggest disrespect of all, blowing up, leaving the Team, going home, which, basically forced the Vikes to put him on IR. What part of that scenario indicates to you that Harvin "deserves" the money. The Vikings players, coaches, us fans, and the front office deserve better.

If the report is erroneous (which, I doubt), then, I see it your way. If it is accurate, it is simple, he needs to go.

I'm with you on this one.

Besides, it is moot. We are simply seeing posturing by Harvin in response to the team planning on shopping him. Harvin is simply making it known that any trade will need to come with a new contract. Not unusual or surprising.

It does tell me that Harvin is gone though.

Ultrapurple
02-11-2013, 09:22 PM
Sansaverse suggested Harvin straight up for Fitzgerald? Think Arizona would do it? Thoughts??

jargomcfargo
02-11-2013, 11:13 PM
Harvin doesn't want to go to training camp. He'll hold out.
But he will sign an extension 3 weeks in, and all will be well.
Percy will get his extension but not as much as he hoped for.
He'll be a Viking for a long time.

singersp
02-12-2013, 06:05 AM
My guess is the Vikings pulled a "Culpepper" on him. IMO, when he was unhappy at camp, Spielman promised him they'd work it out during the season & get him the extension & new contract done if he just came into camp & played ball during the season while it was getting done.

Harvin's hold out at camp was brief & he held up his end of the bargain, Spielman gave him the shaft & played him like a fiddle, perhaps never intending to give him a new contract during 2012, but rather saying he would just to get him in camp & playing.

After Harvin got injured, I think he refused to play without that new contract he was promised. Either Spielman had no intention on giving it to him in 2012 or backed out of the deal when Harvin got hurt. With the stalemate in place, Frazier had no choice but to put Harvin on IR even though my gut feel tells me he was ready to play.

The tirade he had with Frasier was probably about him not getting what was promised him.

Like I said way back, the fact they didn't redo Harvin's contract during the year in 2012 probably meant it would be too late to do it during 2013.

I don't think Harvin failed us, I think Spielman failed Harvin. They probably could have given him the extension & money for a whole lot less back in July than it would cost them now. Harvin would have been happy & the locker room tirade could have been avoided.

Spielman gambled with our 2nd best player & lost.

singersp
02-12-2013, 06:21 AM
I don't agree at all. Dude disrespected the man in charge in front of other players, who, have voiced their disappointment. In any Organization, that disrespectful behavior simply cannot be tolerated...PERIOD. If he isn't part of the Team, or, the Program, then, he needs to go. The Vikings don't owe him anything, and, would be fucking crazy to show a player that displayed what appears to be the biggest disrespect of all, blowing up, leaving the Team, going home, which, basically forced the Vikes to put him on IR. What part of that scenario indicates to you that Harvin "deserves" the money. The Vikings players, coaches, us fans, and the front office deserve better.

Depends on who disrespected who first.

If Spielman/Frazier/Vikings promised him an extension in 2012 with more money just to get him into camp & play football, then stabbed him in the back & didn't give it to him, then it was the Vikings that disrespected Harvin.

singersp
02-12-2013, 07:01 AM
Sounds to me like Harvin is a big fan of Frazier's. Perhaps the locker room incident is being blown out of proportion.

Harvin's Future With Vikings


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xb-YASGw1E

i_bleed_purple
02-12-2013, 10:21 AM
Perhaps the locker room incident is being blown out of proportion.



That never happens!

C Mac D
02-12-2013, 11:05 AM
Interesting trade proposal:


Percy Harvin - Minnesota Vikings - 2013 Player Profile (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5197/percy-harvin)

The Tacoma News Tribune wonders if the Vikings and Seahawks would be interested in a trade centered around Percy Harvin and Matt Flynn.

You can bet the Seahawks would be interested, but Minnesota would have to get at least a second-rounder back in the deal, too.

Cont... (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5197/percy-harvin)

NodakPaul
02-12-2013, 01:41 PM
My guess is the Vikings pulled a "Culpepper" on him. IMO, when he was unhappy at camp, Spielman promised him they'd work it out during the season & get him the extension & new contract done if he just came into camp & played ball during the season while it was getting done.

Harvin's hold out at camp was brief & he held up his end of the bargain, Spielman gave him the shaft & played him like a fiddle, perhaps never intending to give him a new contract during 2012, but rather saying he would just to get him in camp & playing.

After Harvin got injured, I think he refused to play without that new contract he was promised. Either Spielman had no intention on giving it to him in 2012 or backed out of the deal when Harvin got hurt. With the stalemate in place, Frazier had no choice but to put Harvin on IR even though my gut feel tells me he was ready to play.

The tirade he had with Frasier was probably about him not getting what was promised him.

Like I said way back, the fact they didn't redo Harvin's contract during the year in 2012 probably meant it would be too late to do it during 2013.

I don't think Harvin failed us, I think Spielman failed Harvin. They probably could have given him the extension & money for a whole lot less back in July than it would cost them now. Harvin would have been happy & the locker room tirade could have been avoided.

Spielman gambled with our 2nd best player & lost.

You are REALLY reaching and making a lot of assumptions here. That is an awful lot of effort just to try and blame everything on Spielman. Do you really not see the confirmation bias here?

Let's recap...

1) You believe that Spielman made a promise to Harvin that they would work on a contract extension if Harvin came to camp and played during the season.

- This is an assumption, but not outside the realm of possibility.

2) You then believe that Spielman "played Harvin like a fiddle" and that he only told Harvin that to get him into camp and playing.

- Now we start departing from reality... Let's take a break here and ask ourselves why on earth anyone would do that? If you and I are smart enough to know that this would alienate a great player as well as every other player in the locker room, I would assume that the front office staff is as well. Anyway...

3) You then believed that Harvin then refused to play after he got injured until he got a new contract

- Another break here - even if that were the case... why? Harvin isn't helping his case any with either the Vikings or with any other team. It shows a player who refuses to honor his contractual obligations.

4) You now believe that Spielman either backed out of the deal or never intended to work on Harvin's contract.

- Again, why? What would that accomplish? And don't you think that Harvin or other players would be making noise if this was the case?

5) Frazier then "is forced" to put Harvin on IR even though Harvin was ready to play.

- Another break from logic here. Frazier isn't forced to put a player on IR ever. If Harvin is refusing to play, then he deactivates from the roster, subsequently missing game checks. It is the same as a hold out at the beginning of the season. There is no need to put Harvin on IR.

6) The tirade he had with Frazier was about Harvin not getting what was promised him.

- Not only is the "promise" an assumption, but this isn't the first time Harvin has exploded against a coach. He grabbed offensive coordinator Billy Gonzales by the neck and threw him to the ground while in college. Two assistants had to pull Harvin off from Gonzales. He got into an heated argument with Childress on the practice field after Moss's release. He got into TWO blowups with Frazier - one caught on camera on the sidelines, and one in the training room at Winter Park. And yet you think these are all Spielman's fault?

Come on now, this doesn't even pass the common sense test.

I can agree that Spielman and Harvin probably agreed to have more contract talks during the season. However, Harvin barely made it halfway through the season. He was hurt in week 9...

Is contract part of it? Probably, but not all of it. I don't even think it is most of it. I hope the Vikings trade him, because honestly I don't want to see the team reward someone who lets the rest of the players down by refusing to play and has no respect for coaches.

He is a great player, just let him be a great player on some other team. I would rather have the draft picks...

jargomcfargo
02-12-2013, 04:09 PM
Problem is, he would only fetch a second round pick at best and perhaps only a third.
Unless there is a player the Vikings really want involved in the trade, I believe the Vikings will find a way to extend him.
Singer thinks he should have been extended last year but that's not the way the Vikings usually do things.

rednorsk
02-12-2013, 04:15 PM
The PP is suggesting that Percy has turned into Randy Jr.

NodakPaul
02-12-2013, 04:32 PM
Problem is, he would only fetch a second round pick at best and perhaps only a third.
Unless there is a player the Vikings really want involved in the trade, I believe the Vikings will find a way to extend him.
Singer thinks he should have been extended last year but that's not the way the Vikings usually do things.

Harvin would command more than a third without question. I think fair trade value would be a swap of first rounds plus a second.

tastywaves
02-12-2013, 05:02 PM
Problem is, he would only fetch a second round pick at best and perhaps only a third.
Unless there is a player the Vikings really want involved in the trade, I believe the Vikings will find a way to extend him.
Singer thinks he should have been extended last year but that's not the way the Vikings usually do things.

Agreed. If a good trade presents itself than Spielman may pull the trigger, but I think the talks are largely to assess his value on the market to use in negotiations with Percy.

jmcdon00
02-12-2013, 06:24 PM
If I were to guess I would say that Harvin, with advice from his agent, decided to shut it down after the injury. He likely wouldn't have gotten back to 100% during the season, and playing at less than 100% for a small amount of money is not worth the risk(the risk being an injury or poor performance that prevents him from getting a big payday). It's a business and I don't blame a player for being careful.

i_bleed_purple
02-12-2013, 07:45 PM
But in all seriousness... the 'blown out of proportion' theory holds weight. I mean AP wants him back, obviously Harvin's 'blowup' didn't alienate him too much. People argue and fight. Hell, most of you must have at some point gotten in a fight with your wife/gf/other, doesn't mean you're looking for a trade.

midgensa
02-12-2013, 08:52 PM
But in all seriousness... the 'blown out of proportion' theory holds weight. I mean AP wants him back, obviously Harvin's 'blowup' didn't alienate him too much. People argue and fight. Hell, most of you must have at some point gotten in a fight with your wife/gf/other, doesn't mean you're looking for a trade.

At least we won't say we are looking for a trade out loud.

singersp
02-13-2013, 07:36 AM
You are REALLY reaching and making a lot of assumptions here. That is an awful lot of effort just to try and blame everything on Spielman. Do you really not see the confirmation bias here?

Let's recap...

1) You believe that Spielman made a promise to Harvin that they would work on a contract extension if Harvin came to camp and played during the season.

- This is an assumption, but not outside the realm of possibility.

2) You then believe that Spielman "played Harvin like a fiddle" and that he only told Harvin that to get him into camp and playing.

- Now we start departing from reality... Let's take a break here and ask ourselves why on earth anyone would do that? If you and I are smart enough to know that this would alienate a great player as well as every other player in the locker room, I would assume that the front office staff is as well. Anyway...

3) You then believed that Harvin then refused to play after he got injured until he got a new contract

- Another break here - even if that were the case... why? Harvin isn't helping his case any with either the Vikings or with any other team. It shows a player who refuses to honor his contractual obligations.

4) You now believe that Spielman either backed out of the deal or never intended to work on Harvin's contract.

- Again, why? What would that accomplish? And don't you think that Harvin or other players would be making noise if this was the case?

5) Frazier then "is forced" to put Harvin on IR even though Harvin was ready to play.

- Another break from logic here. Frazier isn't forced to put a player on IR ever. If Harvin is refusing to play, then he deactivates from the roster, subsequently missing game checks. It is the same as a hold out at the beginning of the season. There is no need to put Harvin on IR.

6) The tirade he had with Frazier was about Harvin not getting what was promised him.

- Not only is the "promise" an assumption, but this isn't the first time Harvin has exploded against a coach. He grabbed offensive coordinator Billy Gonzales by the neck and threw him to the ground while in college. Two assistants had to pull Harvin off from Gonzales. He got into an heated argument with Childress on the practice field after Moss's release. He got into TWO blowups with Frazier - one caught on camera on the sidelines, and one in the training room at Winter Park. And yet you think these are all Spielman's fault?

Come on now, this doesn't even pass the common sense test.

I can agree that Spielman and Harvin probably agreed to have more contract talks during the season. However, Harvin barely made it halfway through the season. He was hurt in week 9...

Is contract part of it? Probably, but not all of it. I don't even think it is most of it. I hope the Vikings trade him, because honestly I don't want to see the team reward someone who lets the rest of the players down by refusing to play and has no respect for coaches.

He is a great player, just let him be a great player on some other team. I would rather have the draft picks...

1) Sorry, but it makes a lot of sense. You're love for Spielman is clouding your judgment.

What do you believe changed Harvin's mind about being disgruntled and not come to camp one day & the next day everything is fine? Youíre quick to ridicule other peopleís opinions, but donít offer up what you believe to be your own logical opinion.

My guess is he was promised something. If you want to assume something else other than he was promised more money/contract extension, you're free to assume so. Both of our assumptions are just that, but mine is highly possible & it was no secret that Harvin wanted a contract extension back then.

2) I'm not departing from reality here. If Spielman did promise Harvin the contract extension during camp, I'm pretty sure he didn't get it by week 9 or even week 14

Why would Spielman alienate Harvin like that? Who knows. Maybe his intent was to trade him in 2013 anyway or at least prolong not giving him the extension until 2013. Either way itís not like the Vikings never promised a player a new contract before & didnít follow thru with it.

3) Why would that be a break from reality? Címon NP, youíre smarter than that. If he was promised a contract extension & didnít get it & then got hurt on a minimal salary, why should he go back out there without getting a contract that at least gives him more money if he got hurt again giving 150% for his team? Again youíre quick to criticize, but donít give youíre explanation for it.

4) See 2)

5) Perhaps ďforcedĒ is the wrong word here, but IMO Frasier took the only logical path he could, thus ďforcedĒ. Sure he could have deactivated Harvin, but that would have thrown fuel on the fire & made a bad situation worse. Why would Frasier alienate his 2nd best player like that? If you listen to the Video I posted, Schefter states contrary to popular belief, harvin is a big fan of Frazierís & they do get along, but do have their differences at times. Listening to Frazier, the feeling is mutual.

Putting him on IR rather than deactivating him is logical. It doesnít piss him off a lot more, it gives them more time to work things out & it keeps the media more at bay. You start deactivating him game after game & everyone starts to ask questions & knows something is up.
Again, looking for your opinion on it then. Do you really believe his 2-3 week injury lingered on for 8 weeks?

6) Yep, he had a heated argument with Childress on the sideline, so did Favre. Do you believe we should have dumped Favre for disrespecting his coach? I didnít think so.

A lot of players have heated moments on the sidelines with their coaches, You seem to think that Harvin is the first or at least should be the one singled out & punished for it.

The heated argument on the sideline with Frasier was about Ponder not throwing to open receivers. The was not happy about it & quite frankly I wasnít either & rightfully so. That had nothing to do with Spielman & I never said it did.

The tirade in the locker room IMO was still about him not getting his contract extension. It certainly is well within reality & common sense that this is what it was about, but again feel free to offer up your common sense, logical explanation or should I say ďassumptionĒ, that is the only one that can possibly make sense.

Iím not blaming Spielman directly for Harvin blowing up at Frasier if it was about the contract, but common sense tells everyone, well almost everyone, that if Harvin would have gotten his contract extension earlier in the year & paid what he was worth, it would have prevented any tirade about it later on in the season.

If you think we should trade Harvin because he disrespected the coach, thatís your opinion & your entitled to believing we should trade him just as you believed we should traded Favre when he disrespected the coach. Oh wait, you didnít.

singersp
02-13-2013, 07:48 AM
Singer thinks he should have been extended last year but that's not the way the Vikings usually do things.

Pretty sure Adrian Peterson's rookie contract had him becoming a FA in 2013, but he got a new deal in September of 2011. Not at the end of 2011. Not in 2012 the last year of his contract, but September of 2011.

It was the right thing to do. Reward your star players for performance, rather than piss them off and lose them.

NodakPaul
02-13-2013, 08:25 AM
1) Sorry, but it makes a lot of sense. You're love for Spielman is clouding your judgment.

What do you believe changed Harvin's mind about being disgruntled and not come to camp one day & the next day everything is fine? Youíre quick to ridicule other peopleís opinions, but donít offer up what you believe to be your own logical opinion.

My guess is he was promised something. If you want to assume something else other than he was promised more money/contract extension, you're free to assume so. Both of our assumptions are just that, but mine is highly possible & it was no secret that Harvin wanted a contract extension back then.

2) I'm not departing from reality here. If Spielman did promise Harvin the contract extension during camp, I'm pretty sure he didn't get it by week 9 or even week 14

Why would Spielman alienate Harvin like that? Who knows. Maybe his intent was to trade him in 2013 anyway or at least prolong not giving him the extension until 2013. Either way itís not like the Vikings never promised a player a new contract before & didnít follow thru with it.

3) Why would that be a break from reality? Címon NP, youíre smarter than that. If he was promised a contract extension & didnít get it & then got hurt on a minimal salary, why should he go back out there without getting a contract that at least gives him more money if he got hurt again giving 150% for his team? Again youíre quick to criticize, but donít give youíre explanation for it.

4) See 2)

5) Perhaps ďforcedĒ is the wrong word here, but IMO Frasier took the only logical path he could, thus ďforcedĒ. Sure he could have deactivated Harvin, but that would have thrown fuel on the fire & made a bad situation worse. Why would Frasier alienate his 2nd best player like that? If you listen to the Video I posted, Schefter states contrary to popular belief, harvin is a big fan of Frazierís & they do get along, but do have their differences at times. Listening to Frazier, the feeling is mutual.

Putting him on IR rather than deactivating him is logical. It doesnít piss him off a lot more, it gives them more time to work things out & it keeps the media more at bay. You start deactivating him game after game & everyone starts to ask questions & knows something is up.
Again, looking for your opinion on it then. Do you really believe his 2-3 week injury lingered on for 8 weeks?

6) Yep, he had a heated argument with Childress on the sideline, so did Favre. Do you believe we should have dumped Favre for disrespecting his coach? I didnít think so.

A lot of players have heated moments on the sidelines with their coaches, You seem to think that Harvin is the first or at least should be the one singled out & punished for it.

The heated argument on the sideline with Frasier was about Ponder not throwing to open receivers. The was not happy about it & quite frankly I wasnít either & rightfully so. That had nothing to do with Spielman & I never said it did.

The tirade in the locker room IMO was still about him not getting his contract extension. It certainly is well within reality & common sense that this is what it was about, but again feel free to offer up your common sense, logical explanation or should I say ďassumptionĒ, that is the only one that can possibly make sense.

Iím not blaming Spielman directly for Harvin blowing up at Frasier if it was about the contract, but common sense tells everyone, well almost everyone, that if Harvin would have gotten his contract extension earlier in the year & paid what he was worth, it would have prevented any tirade about it later on in the season.

If you think we should trade Harvin because he disrespected the coach, thatís your opinion & your entitled to believing we should trade him just as you believed we should traded Favre when he disrespected the coach. Oh wait, you didnít.

Harvin has done it four times. I am starting to see a pattern here.

And I actually laughed out loud when you said that Harvin was making a "minimal salary" when he got hurt. Harvin signed a five-year contract in 2009 worth $14.5 million, including $8.7 million in guarantees. Not exactly what he is worth, but not exactly minimal salary either.

Of course part of the problem is his lack of contract extension. I didn't say it wasn't. But a larger part of the problem is starting to look like Percy himself. Of course, if you are looking for any and every reason to justify your dislike of the GM, then I guess it makes sense to say things like "I don't think Harvin failed us, I think Spielman failed Harvin." and "Spielman gambled with our 2nd best player & lost." I am sure Harvin is convinced that he is nothing but a victim here too...

jargomcfargo
02-13-2013, 12:38 PM
Pretty sure Adrian Peterson's rookie contract had him becoming a FA in 2013, but he got a new deal in September of 2011. Not at the end of 2011. Not in 2012 the last year of his contract, but September of 2011.

It was the right thing to do. Reward your star players for performance, rather than piss them off and lose them.

AP was entering the final year of his rookie contract in 2011 when the Vikings gave him a new contract.
That's the way the Vikings have almost always operated in the past. That's why I asked you why you thought they should have extended Percy's contract last year. It made no sense.

After a 3 day holdout, Adrian Peterson signed a five year rookie contract worth about 40 million dollars, making him the highest paid running back in the NFL.
The first year of that contract was 2007, which would have made the final year 2011.
Had AP played out the final year of his contract, he would have tore his ACL and MCL, and his next contract may have been a lot different.

Negotiations for Percy's new contract will start this year, and hopefully, an agreement reached by training camp.

mountainviking
02-13-2013, 01:06 PM
A lot of speculation on both sides here...likely some truth both ways. Of course Harvin wants more money, and deserves it. We also know that he has a reputation of missing practices and throwing tantrums. I don't want to see him go, as I think he's a one of a kind talent, but I really, really love the blue collar, hard workin, team first personality that seems to be building, and if he can't get with that, then maybe we're better off without him.

And, his value won't go up from here. IF he goes into holdout mode and/or throws another tantrum, he hurts his trade value and his own pockets. But a guy who plays 3 positions well has some decent value, and good teams make sure they make the most of the draft picks they win on, one way or another.

Caine
02-13-2013, 08:34 PM
Said it last year, I'll say it again, Harvin needs to look AP in the eye and tell HIM how committed he is to winning...

Until he can do that without being struck dead by lightning, Harvin will never be anything more than another T.O. "I love me some ME!!!".

We won't get anything near what he's "worth" in trade... teams know he wants out. The only way we get value is if a bidding war starts over him...and with his attitude, I can see teams walking away early if the "value" isn't there.

Caine

Purple Floyd
02-13-2013, 08:48 PM
They better pay Harvin. I would hate to see him having to pop tags at the thrift store.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktCWU6R-CNk

Brewtal
02-13-2013, 10:46 PM
I believe we should let him hold out. He will be back and forced to produce 10 weeks into the season, and if he does not produce he had just screwed himself for his big payday next offseason. Harvin is really stuck between a rock and a hard place. I would love to see us resign him, great player and fun to watch. If someone is going to be a weed for the team it just is not worth it.

Brewtal
02-13-2013, 10:52 PM
It really isn't looking good for Harvin that the Vikings started winning once he left. I think Ponder was forced to not just focus on him once he was gone.

snowinapril
02-14-2013, 02:58 AM
Minnesota Vikings source wants to keep Percy Harvin - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000138844/article/minnesota-vikings-source-wants-to-keep-percy-harvin)

This doesn't narrow anything down.

singersp
02-14-2013, 06:49 AM
AP was entering the final year of his rookie contract in 2011 when the Vikings gave him a new contract.
That's the way the Vikings have almost always operated in the past. That's why I asked you why you thought they should have extended Percy's contract last year. It made no sense.

After a 3 day holdout, Adrian Peterson signed a five year rookie contract worth about 40 million dollars, making him the highest paid running back in the NFL.
The first year of that contract was 2007, which would have made the final year 2011.
Had AP played out the final year of his contract, he would have tore his ACL and MCL, and his next contract may have been a lot different.

Negotiations for Percy's new contract will start this year, and hopefully, an agreement reached by training camp.

Not sure where you're getting your info. AD signed a 6 year rookie contract in 2007.


Nearly three months after being drafted, he was signed by the Vikings on July 29, 2007. His contract was worth US$40.5 million over six years, with $17 million guaranteed.[

Yes I counted 2007. A 6 year contract has him signed thru 2012 & a FA in 2013, So renewing his contract in the beginning of 2011 was a full year before his final year. Count again.

singersp
02-14-2013, 07:13 AM
Harvin has done it four times. I am starting to see a pattern here.

And I actually laughed out loud when you said that Harvin was making a "minimal salary" when he got hurt. Harvin signed a five-year contract in 2009 worth $14.5 million, including $8.7 million in guarantees. Not exactly what he is worth, but not exactly minimal salary either.

Of course part of the problem is his lack of contract extension. I didn't say it wasn't. But a larger part of the problem is starting to look like Percy himself. Of course, if you are looking for any and every reason to justify your dislike of the GM, then I guess it makes sense to say things like "I don't think Harvin failed us, I think Spielman failed Harvin." and "Spielman gambled with our 2nd best player & lost." I am sure Harvin is convinced that he is nothing but a victim here too...

Laugh all you want. $8.7 guaranteed over 5 years is 1.74 mil guaranteed. How much is Carlson making again? That must seem astronomical.

Here's Harvin's salary to date;

Percy Harvin Contract, Salaries, and Transactions (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/percy-harvin/)

So far he's made $8.7 mil over 4 years. Not a lot considering his worth.

Here's the 2012 Vikings salaries;

Minnesota Vikings Salaries | Minnesota Vikings Player Salaries | 2012 Minnesota Vikings Salary | SportsCity.com (http://www.sportscity.com/nfl/salaries/minnesota-vikings-salaries/)


Spielman's job BTW, is not just to draft new players, but to keep the good players we have. Had he worked out a new deal with Harvin at the start of the season, he probably could have had him much cheaper then than he can now after having a great season up until the time he was injured.

IMO, he screwed the pooch on the handling of the situation & it has now cost the Vikings their top WR. Unless he signs another top notch WR that can play at the same level as Harvin, then he took the Vikings yet another step back in the rebuilding process.

If you want to toss 100% of the blame on Harvin, feel free, but IMO Spielman & the Vikings need to take ownership in that they didn't handle the situation well & now it will cost them dearly.

BTW, you never answered the questions about what you thought was said to Harvin to get him back into camp or what you felt those 3 blow-ups were about.

singersp
02-14-2013, 07:29 AM
It really isn't looking good for Harvin that the Vikings started winning once he left. I think Ponder was forced to not just focus on him once he was gone.

How so? They won 5 games with him & 5 games without.

Since Harvin got hurt, Ponder avg. dropped from over 200 yards per game to 161 yards per game & his completion % fell from 63% to 60% despite his mechanics & pocket presence improving.

NodakPaul
02-14-2013, 09:53 AM
Laugh all you want. $8.7 guaranteed over 5 years is 1.74 mil guaranteed. How much is Carlson making again? That must seem astronomical.

Here's Harvin's salary to date;

Percy Harvin Contract, Salaries, and Transactions (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/percy-harvin/)

So far he's made $8.7 mil over 4 years. Not a lot considering his worth.

Here's the 2012 Vikings salaries;

Minnesota Vikings Salaries | Minnesota Vikings Player Salaries | 2012 Minnesota Vikings Salary | SportsCity.com (http://www.sportscity.com/nfl/salaries/minnesota-vikings-salaries/)


Spielman's job BTW, is not just to draft new players, but to keep the good players we have. Had he worked out a new deal with Harvin at the start of the season, he probably could have had him much cheaper then than he can now after having a great season up until the time he was injured.

IMO, he screwed the pooch on the handling of the situation & it has now cost the Vikings their top WR. Unless he signs another top notch WR that can play at the same level as Harvin, then he took the Vikings yet another step back in the rebuilding process.

If you want to toss 100% of the blame on Harvin, feel free, but IMO Spielman & the Vikings need to take ownership in that they didn't handle the situation well & now it will cost them dearly.

BTW, you never answered the questions about what you thought was said to Harvin to get him back into camp or what you felt those 3 blow-ups were about.

Good find on the salary links. It looks like Harvin is set to make just under $6 million this year. That puts him in the top echelons of WRs. From this article (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Pelissero_Percy_Harvins_contract_demands_have_Vikings_in_tough_spot021313) it looks like Harvin is looking to make at least $10 million per year, if not $12 million per year. That would put him in pretty elite company, with only Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson making that much. Is Harvin worth it? Well, this is where the attitude thing comes in for me. If he had the same attitude as Fitz or Megatron I think I would be fine with it. But he doesn't, and that lowers the price for me.

Now to your question, what did Spielman say to Harvin? I don't know, I expect it was about working the contract after the season. It is pretty rare to sign a player to a contract extension when they still have two years left in their contract. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it is pretty rare.

As far as Harvin blowing up, I don't know exactly what it was about. I don't think it was contractual because it was directed at Frazier instead of Spielman. I think it was much more likely operational, probably related to his frustration with the QB. He was fairly vocal about that too. But regardless of what it was about, it demonstrates a lack of respect. Not what I want from a team leader, especially when that person wants team leader money.

Did the Vikings and Spielman handle the situation correctly? Obviously you do not think so, but I don't know. Yes, we could have probably alleviated any holdout talks by signing Harvin to a new contract last offseason, but would that have been the best for the Vikings? It would have set precedent for players to look for contracts when there is two years left in their rookie contract, and outside of AD, I don't know if we have any players who have demonstrated that they deserve that. It also would have given top ten WR money to a player who is definitely top ten on the field, but questionable when it comes to leadership. Harvin's lack of maturity and leadership last season make me think that Spielman made the correct decision in waiting.

NodakPaul
02-14-2013, 09:55 AM
How so? They won 5 games with him & 5 games without.

Since Harvin got hurt, Ponder avg. dropped from over 200 yards per game to 161 yards per game & his completion % fell from 63% to 60% despite his mechanics & pocket presence improving.

I think he meant that the Vikings were able to accomplish as much without Harvin as they were with him.

jargomcfargo
02-14-2013, 11:31 AM
Not sure where you're getting your info. AD signed a 6 year rookie contract in 2007.



Yes I counted 2007. A 6 year contract has him signed thru 2012 & a FA in 2013, So renewing his contract in the beginning of 2011 was a full year before his final year. Count again.

Sorry but your source is wikipedia, and it's wrong. Every other source says Peterson's rookie contract was 5 years. He was entering the final year of that contract when he signed his new 6 year extension.
Here is one of many articles that mentions the 5 year rookie contract.

Adrian Peterson didnít hold out because heís ďin the driverís seatĒ | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/adrian-peterson-didnt-hold-out-because-hes-in-the-drivers-seat/)

ďIím pretty much in a good position right now,Ē Peterson told 105.3 the Fan in Dallas, via SportsRadioInterviews.com. ďIím kind of in the driverís seat, so I just decided, hey, itís my last year of the contract, Iíll stay faithful to it and Iím going to go out and focus on doing what I can do to help this team win a championship. . . . Everything else will work out on its own.Ē

The Vikings negotiate contracts prior to the last year of the rookie contract, as they did with Peterson.

They are beginning that process with Percy now. Thus all the rumors and behind the scenes posturing.

tastywaves
02-14-2013, 01:04 PM
The Harvin Debate (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/12/the-harvin-debate/)

Couple guys on Pro Football Focus discussing the pros and cons of Harvin.

I still think the Vikings would like to resign Harvin, but not at an overinflated price. By shopping him for a trade, they can better assess his true value on the market and use it to negotiate a deal. If a strong trade does present itself, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him go.

Harvin is a rare talent without a doubt and plays the game on the field as intensely as anyone I've seen. However, he needs to be knocked down a bit on his prima donna-ness, or he could very well be a distraction to the rest of the team.

And why is it, that the prima donna's in the league usually are WR's. Whoever told these guys that they are the most important position on a team. I think they all need to get knocked down a few notches.

singersp
02-15-2013, 06:35 AM
Sorry but your source is wikipedia, and it's wrong. Every other source says Peterson's rookie contract was 5 years. He was entering the final year of that contract when he signed his new 6 year extension.
Here is one of many articles that mentions the 5 year rookie contract.

Adrian Peterson didnít hold out because heís ďin the driverís seatĒ | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/adrian-peterson-didnt-hold-out-because-hes-in-the-drivers-seat/)

ďIím pretty much in a good position right now,Ē Peterson told 105.3 the Fan in Dallas, via SportsRadioInterviews.com. ďIím kind of in the driverís seat, so I just decided, hey, itís my last year of the contract, Iíll stay faithful to it and Iím going to go out and focus on doing what I can do to help this team win a championship. . . . Everything else will work out on its own.Ē

The Vikings negotiate contracts prior to the last year of the rookie contract, as they did with Peterson.

They are beginning that process with Percy now. Thus all the rumors and behind the scenes posturing.

Thanks for the find. When seached for his rookie contract mostly what I found were articles about his new one & the Wikipedia one.

singersp
02-15-2013, 06:50 AM
I think he meant that the Vikings were able to accomplish as much without Harvin as they were with him.

I know he was going there, but I don't necessarily agree with it. They had as many wins, but I believe our passing game suffered quite a blow with Harvin not in it. AD stepped up his running game which skewed the perception of our passing game & wins.

If fans want to believe we are just fine without him because we won 5 games without him, then they should be just fine if we go into the 2013 season with the WR corp we have, less Harvin.

The good that did come out of it was that Ponder was forced to start trusting & throwing to other WR's.

singersp
02-15-2013, 06:59 AM
Volatile Harvin still brings more reward than risk

Souhan: Volatile Harvin still brings more reward than risk | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/190948781.html)


Maybe he used a word in his confrontation with coach Leslie Frazier that would have been bleeped out of a Tarantino flick. Maybe he used a baseball broadcast without the express written consent of the commissioner, or tore the tag off a mattress, or tried to buy beer on Sunday.

This is the NFL, and what we know for sure about Harvin is that he never has been indicted on double murder charges, doesn't get fat before realizing he needs NFL paychecks to pay off past bar bills, never plays at half-speed and has yet to speak out against the possibility of a gay teammate.

NodakPaul
02-15-2013, 10:43 AM
Volatile Harvin still brings more reward than risk

Souhan: Volatile Harvin still brings more reward than risk | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/190948781.html)

He makes some fair points.

I would like to see Harvin stay with the Vikings for a reasonable price. I don't need to see Harvin stay with the Vikings at any price.

mountainviking
02-15-2013, 11:15 AM
The Harvin Debate (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/12/the-harvin-debate/)

Couple guys on Pro Football Focus discussing the pros and cons of Harvin.

I still think the Vikings would like to resign Harvin, but not at an overinflated price. By shopping him for a trade, they can better assess his true value on the market and use it to negotiate a deal. If a strong trade does present itself, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him go.

Harvin is a rare talent without a doubt and plays the game on the field as intensely as anyone I've seen. However, he needs to be knocked down a bit on his prima donna-ness, or he could very well be a distraction to the rest of the team.

And why is it, that the prima donna's in the league usually are WR's. Whoever told these guys that they are the most important position on a team. I think they all need to get knocked down a few notches.

Good points on both sides, especially this:

At the end of the day, with Harvin you are trading for a football player and an offensive weapon, the best and most versatile in the league. When players are as special and productive as Harvin then teams have this habit of finding ways to work with the baggage they bring with them. If I have the right offensive mind on my staff, then as a general manager Iím looking at Harvin as the most devastating offensive weapon I can get my hands on. At the right price he is a piece of the puzzle I absolutely want on my football team.


But also, some info I hadn't heard:


He was actually banned from playing in all Virginia High School sports after punching a referee, and his issues continued during his college career at the University of Florida.

He also has a long injury history. His time in the NFL hasnít been too bad, missing just 10 of 64 career games (seven of which came this year with a torn ankle ligament), and he is undoubtedly tough as nails, but including college he has missed time with ankle, neck, rib, heel, and more ankle injuries, as well as a well-documented battle with migraines. He is tough, but Harvin is just 5-foot-11′ and 184 pounds, being tackled by players that outweigh him by 60 pounds or more on a regular basis ó that doesnít add up to a player you can rely on week in, week out.


And, now he is getting older...meaning, he won't heal quite as fast as he used to and may not bounce back quite as quickly.

Summed up, a talent you are very afraid to lose, but also a risk you are very afraid to take given the size of the contract he deserves vs. the probability of him missing more on-field time going forward. IF we're paying 2 of our 52 players over 25 mill/year it makes keeping talent around them harder.

Hopefully you're right Tasty, we are just testing the waters a bit. IF we're only offered a 2nd for him, fuck that, we get Bizdealski to work out some creative contract to make both sides happy. The way I see it, he plays 3 spots well, making him worth 3 picks or 2 starters, like a 1st and a player perhaps. Anything less than that and we're better off rolling the dice.

singersp
02-16-2013, 09:32 AM
Good find on the salary links. It looks like Harvin is set to make just under $6 million this year. That puts him in the top echelons of WRs.

Not sure how you came up with $6 mil. His base salary is only $2.9 mil with a signing bonus of $196,000. That puts him just over $3 mil. With the additional bonus, if he gets it, would barley put him over $4 mil. which is his salary cap.

That doesn't even put him remotely close to being paid top echelon money. It's about 1/2 of what the #10 WR makes. Not close......half. Not half of the #1, but half of the #10.

Here's the top 10 cap hits for WR's in 2013;

2013 NFL Top Cap Hit Salaries - Wide Receiver (http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/wide-receiver/)

#10 is $8.3 mil. How close is $4 mil to that figure?

Here's the top 10 base salaries for WR's in 2013;

2013 NFL Top Base Salaries - Wide Receiver (http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/wide-receiver/)

#10 is $5.6 mil. How close is $2.9 mil to that figure?

Average salaries;

2013 NFL Top Average Salaries - Wide Receiver (http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/wide-receiver/)

Again, he's nowhere near the top 10. Not even close.

Do I believe he should be paid top 3 money? Nope! But I believe he needs to be paid enough more than he's making now to at least put him nearer to #10 money.

Mr Anderson
02-16-2013, 10:00 AM
Good points on both sides, especially this:


But also, some info I hadn't heard:



And, now he is getting older...meaning, he won't heal quite as fast as he used to and may not bounce back quite as quickly.

Summed up, a talent you are very afraid to lose, but also a risk you are very afraid to take given the size of the contract he deserves vs. the probability of him missing more on-field time going forward. IF we're paying 2 of our 52 players over 25 mill/year it makes keeping talent around them harder.

Hopefully you're right Tasty, we are just testing the waters a bit. IF we're only offered a 2nd for him, fuck that, we get Bizdealski to work out some creative contract to make both sides happy. The way I see it, he plays 3 spots well, making him worth 3 picks or 2 starters, like a 1st and a player perhaps. Anything less than that and we're better off rolling the dice.
Older? If we sign him to a 5 year deal he won't even be 30 by it's completion.

Most receivers in this year's draft are 21 or 22. Harvin is 24, will be 25 in May.

It's rare to have a veteran of 4 seasons who's only 24 years old.

singersp
02-16-2013, 10:07 AM
Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract

Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/21709069/harvins-frustrations-with-vikings-center-around-offense-not-contract)

singersp
02-16-2013, 10:13 AM
Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract

Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/21709069/harvins-frustrations-with-vikings-center-around-offense-not-contract)

Who wouldn't be happy with an offense that features a QB that that can't throw accurately over 10 yards or one that has difficulty finding open receivers?

singersp
02-16-2013, 10:45 AM
Spielman: 'We have no intent of trading Percy Harvin'

Vikings GM: 'We have no intent of trading Percy Harvin' - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21709933/vikings-gm-we-have-no-intent-of-trading-percy-harvin)

singersp
02-16-2013, 10:47 AM
Spielman: 'We have no intent of trading Percy Harvin'


So I wonder what teams he is talking 'trade' with?

singersp
02-16-2013, 10:56 AM
http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/161/234/hi-res-155769721_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75
Why Vikings Will Regret Decision to Not Trade Percy Harvin | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1531316-why-vikings-will-regret-decision-to-not-trade-percy-harvin)

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/161/234/hi-res-155769721_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75
Percy Harvin: Vikings Must Meet Star Wide Receiver's Offensive Demands | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1531303-percy-harvin-vikings-must-meet-star-wide-receivers-offensive-demands)

Mr Anderson
02-16-2013, 11:03 AM
Who wouldn't be happy with an offense that features a QB that that can't throw accurately over 10 yards or one that has difficulty finding open receivers?
That's certainly a tougher fix than just a contract. Time to bring in some veteran competition for Ponder. I'd like to take a look at Matt Moore or Jason Campbell.

mountainviking
02-16-2013, 11:42 AM
Older? If we sign him to a 5 year deal he won't even be 30 by it's completion.

Most receivers in this year's draft are 21 or 22. Harvin is 24, will be 25 in May.

It's rare to have a veteran of 4 seasons who's only 24 years old.

True. Very young for the amount of punishment he has absorbed. Kid just plays so balls out reckless, you gotta figure, eventually that catches up with a body...

I want him to be a Viking, like I've said, one of a kind talent. Nobody fills three roles as well as he does in the entire NFL. I agree with him, our offense has been frustrating to watch, But we can't afford to have him undermining the QB's confidence and team chemistry either.

The way I see it, IF we dont' get 3 picks/players for him, we're losing value on the deal, cuz he fills three holes. So, we keep him and try harder to make it work. I don't know how much more the guy could want the ball tho...seemed the entire offense went through him early season.

Really, this is just getting silly! Obviously, lying season has started. We're definitely shopping him, but we have no intent to trade him. He'll hold out, but he's not pissed about his contract, it's the offense. Where does this shit even come from!? How many mutually exclusive statements can we stand!??? ;)

LOL! Had to add this

It's Time For Some 'Rickspeak', Starring GM Rick Spielman - Daily Norseman (http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/2/15/3993714/rick-spielman-percy-harvin-trade-vikings-leslie-frazier)

jargomcfargo
02-16-2013, 12:10 PM
Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract

Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/21709069/harvins-frustrations-with-vikings-center-around-offense-not-contract)

I see this as the most likely explanation regarding the sideline eruptions. Yet Percy was on pace for an MVP like season prior to his injury last year.
Reality is, Percy is a guy who has yet to reach his potential for a variety of reasons. He's justified in placing blame on a weak QB and an OC who has brain farts in the red zone, but even when Favre was having one of his best seasons ever, Harvin wasn't a league leading receiver.

Harvin would like to be one of the highest paid receivers despite less than stellar statistics.
He wants paid for his potential since he has had to play on a running team with inept QB's most of his career.

I think the Vikings may meet him half way by paying a bit above what his stats. would seem to warrant.

Or he may be dealt if the deal is favorable.

Right now both sides are posturing in a preamble to contract negotiations.

I would like to see Percy stay with the Vikings, but if not, so be it.

marstc09
02-16-2013, 12:47 PM
Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract

Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/21709069/harvins-frustrations-with-vikings-center-around-offense-not-contract)

He was fine when Brett Favre was here. Just saying. Get his buddy Moss here and add Jennings and he will be fine. I will give up on Ponder if he can't work with that even though I already think he is not good enough for the NFL.

snowinapril
02-16-2013, 04:00 PM
Facts:
pH+ contributes on Offense and Special Teams. He gets us good starting field position and is a threat to return kick all the way. He is a weapon at Wr and occasionally at RB. He is a fierce competitor. He wants to win.
pH- is a detriment to the team when he is in subordinate. He has difficulties with missing games during the season. The guy is volatile.
pH (neutral) his temper, insubordinate, and volatility can be viewed as just wanting to win.

Opinion:
This really comes down to what the coaching staff wants to put up with. The front office must know that this is a gamble and the coaching staff will do what they have to to keep unity amongst the team and let the team know the coach is in charge. That means the front office will have spent their money in an unwise manner if the coaches have to sit him out again for conduct detrimental to the team which may or may not have been the case when they put him on the IR at the end of the season.

Anyway, keep speculating all you want.

jargomcfargo
02-16-2013, 04:15 PM
He was fine when Brett Favre was here. Just saying. Get his buddy Moss here and add Jennings and he will be fine. I will give up on Ponder if he can't work with that even though I already think he is not good enough for the NFL.

Actually his receiving stats have improved since Brett left!

marstc09
02-16-2013, 07:33 PM
He was fine when Brett Favre was here. Just saying. Get his buddy Moss here and add Jennings and he will be fine. I will give up on Ponder if he can't work with that even though I already think he is not good enough for the NFL.

Actually his receiving stats have improved since Brett left!

That is what usually happens after a rookie season. No shock there. Also Favre spread the ball around, Ponder did not when Percy was there. Some of the reason we were not good in the beginning of the season.

NodakPaul
02-16-2013, 08:25 PM
Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract

Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/21709069/harvins-frustrations-with-vikings-center-around-offense-not-contract)

Doesn't that kind of shoot holes in your "its all spielman's fault" theory? I thought you said the sideline blowups were all because Speilman promised Harvin they would work on the contract... Pretty sure this doesn't fit with the "Spielman gambled with our 2nd best player & lost" line of thought.

Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. I didn't really think it was a contract issue - not last offseason and not now. Yes, Harvin wants to be paid, but that isn't what this is about. He was frustrated with his role in the offense last offseason and he is frustrated by the QB this season. What is he going to be frustrated with next season?

singersp
02-17-2013, 08:25 AM
I see this as the most likely explanation regarding the sideline eruptions.

I see that AS the reason for the sideline interruption during the game.

Mainly because Harvin stated it was the reason after it happened months ago. I posted the article & have been citing it ever since.

MaxVike
02-17-2013, 09:38 AM
Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract

Harvin's frustrations with Vikings center around offense, not contract - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/21709069/harvins-frustrations-with-vikings-center-around-offense-not-contract)

Oh, well, that's a relief :irked:

Hey Percy, there are other ways to show your frustration...grow up young man, please. You are certainly a contrast of good and bad, I will give you that.

Here's one fan that loves your play on the field, your heart, abilities, tenacity, playmaking...but, I'm frustrated too. Frustrated that we are subject to watching you yell at the coach and that you chose to leave the Team for whatever fucking reason. Take a page from Adrian Peterson's book, or even Terrell Suggs' book...vs, taking a page from Dwight Howard's, Chad or Keyshawn Johnson's book. When you realize that life is bigger than you, the sky is the limit...I'm hoping that happens whilst you are a Viking. But, I'm getting frustrated waiting.

singersp
02-17-2013, 10:45 AM
Doesn't that kind of shoot holes in your "its all spielman's fault" theory? I thought you said the sideline blowups were all because Speilman promised Harvin they would work on the contract... Pretty sure this doesn't fit with the "Spielman gambled with our 2nd best player & lost" line of thought.

Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. I didn't really think it was a contract issue - not last offseason and not now. Yes, Harvin wants to be paid, but that isn't what this is about. He was frustrated with his role in the offense last offseason and he is frustrated by the QB this season. What is he going to be frustrated with next season?

Yes & no.
At no time ever did I say the sideline blowups were about money or contract. I told you that before & you ignored it & bring it up again. The sideline blowup was about receivers getting open & the ball not getting thrown to them. Iíve been citing that statement by Harvin since November.

Harvinís quote that I posted the article to last November;


"The plays are there. We look on film, and guys are open. We're not clicking at the same time."

And here is the link of the thread after the sideline blow up that only 1 person replied to;

http://www.purplepride.org/f2/harvin-heated-sideline-moment-1110821/

Nothing there about contract or Spielman.

Even back when Harvin blew up in training camp I felt a huge part of it was about Ponder & the offense;




I think you guys are tracking dead-on being the scheme vs. contract.
Thank you.
That didnít change after his sideline blowup & I still maintained the offense/Ponder was a huge part of it back in December before his last tirade;



I said weeks ago, I felt Harvin would be gone after this years end & there was something fishy about his injury taking way longer to heal than normal. My guess is he was able to come back this season but refused to due to either wanting that extension now, much like in preseason and/or doesn't want to play behind a QB that can't make downfield passes further than 5 yards with any kind of consistency.

Back when Harvin demanded a trade during training camp there was also rumblings about him wanting a contract extension as well. Something was said or promised to Harvin to get him back into camp. After hearing about his last tirade after the injury at the time he was put on IR, I felt the majority of the las tirade was contract extension issues. Since Harvin hadnít been playing for over a month, it seemed reasonable it was more about contract & what was promised him than it was the offense.

If this last article is true, then I would be wrong about his last tirade, but I still feel something was promised to him back at TC & that contract extension issues are & have been part of the frustration.

singersp
02-17-2013, 11:55 AM
Trouble with trading: As Vikings ponder Harvinís value, big-name NFL deal-making remains rare

Trouble with trading: As Vikings ponder Harvin’s value, big-name NFL deal-making remains rare - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/trouble-with-trading-as-vikings-ponder-harvins-value-big-name-nfl-deal-making-remains-rare/2013/02/15/38532d6e-7791-11e2-b102-948929030e64_story.html)

singersp
02-17-2013, 12:01 PM
ďAgain, there is no intent to trade Percy Harvin,Ē Vikings general manager Rick Spielman said Friday. ďHe is a very good football player.Ē

The optimum word here is "intent". That could easily mean, "I didn't have any intention on trading Harvin, but I'm trading him because he's forcing my hand."

mountainviking
02-17-2013, 12:23 PM
Pelissero: Percy Harvin's contract demands have Vikings in tough spot | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Pelissero_Percy_Harvins_contract_demands_have_Vikings_in_tough_spot021313)

that sums it up pretty well...tho I still think he's worth a lot more than a 2nd!


"He's got more versatility and big-play ability than Bowe," the personnel director said. "He's younger than Jennings. He can get vertical like Wallace can, but Wallace is a real straightline (player) and Percy's got a whole lot more wiggle to him. He's got (Wes) Welker's quickness, but far better speed. Arguably, you can say he might be the top guy of that group."

So, the Vikings figure to bide their time if they're not blown away with an offer, although they have plenty of reason to want resolution one way or another before April's draft.

The only other option is playing a game of chicken, betting that Harvin would sooner show up and play to prove everyone wrong than risk significant fines for holding out during training camp and eventually having to choose between showing up at midseason or having his contract tolled.

singersp
02-18-2013, 06:56 AM
Pelissero: Percy Harvin's contract demands have Vikings in tough spot | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Pelissero_Percy_Harvins_contract_demands_have_Vikings_in_tough_spot021313)

that sums it up pretty well...tho I still think he's worth a lot more than a 2nd!

While Harvin might be the top one of that group, the fact remains we don't only need Harvin, but an additional one from that group as well.

I'm just afraid Spielman will get us WR help in the same manner he got us WR & TE help last year.

Purple Floyd
02-18-2013, 11:08 AM
While Harvin might be the top one of that group, the fact remains we don't only need Harvin, but an additional one from that group as well.

I'm just afraid Spielman will get us WR help in the same manner he got us WR & TE help last year.

Why?

We have Wright for one WR option and when we are running 2 TE's or a TE and a FB there isn't any more room for a WR on the field so one vertical threat would fill out the roster. Now, if we were going to get rid of AP and the FB and spread out 5 WR's I can see your point. But in this case I don't.

mountainviking
02-18-2013, 12:04 PM
While Harvin might be the top one of that group, the fact remains we don't only need Harvin, but an additional one from that group as well.

I'm just afraid Spielman will get us WR help in the same manner he got us WR & TE help last year.

What I read there, is that we are better off keeping Harvin than signing any of those guys. And, really, I don't see us adding a high priced WR unless we lose Harvin. Bowe is already negotiating with KC, Jennings has been hurt too much and has connections in MIA, Wallace is a one trick pony coming off a bad year who I believe will be wildly overpaid by somebody. Welker is only a fit if we suddenly find ourselves without the awesome slot receiver we have now.

Well, it sucked, to be sure, but we were kinda cap-strapped last offseason and only had cash for bargains, and then 3 of the 5 additions he did make got hurt with lingering, performance harming or season-ending injuries (Simpson, Childs & Carlson...D'oh!) Leaving us to depend on 4th round rookies Wright and Ellison as starters more than expected.

True, we don't trot out 3 WRs very damn much. But, it has become painfully obvious that we have one of the lowest total talent levels at WR in the entire, passing-driven league! We simply cannot go through another year with this level of lacking or we'll be hurting Ponder instead of helping him, and worst yet, creating another excuse for another year of Pondering what he could do if he had some weapons.

As much as I'd love to see some youthful potential added to D too, I feel like we need to concentrate a bit more on offense this draft, and remove as many excuses for poor QB play as possible, so we know what we have there earlier than later.

NodakPaul
02-18-2013, 05:17 PM
I think that the Vikings are a better team with Harvin than we are without. However, I don't think that the Vikings need Harvin. We proved that last season when we did just as well without him than we did with. Hell, Ponder may have improved, as he used Percy like a crutch before, and had to start trusting his other receivers once he was out.

If we can lock up Harvin for a decent price, I am OK with it. But if he wants Megatron type money, I would rather ship him and his attitude somewhere else.

singersp
02-19-2013, 06:52 AM
Why?

We have Wright for one WR option and when we are running 2 TE's or a TE and a FB there isn't any more room for a WR on the field so one vertical threat would fill out the roster. Now, if we were going to get rid of AP and the FB and spread out 5 WR's I can see your point. But in this case I don't.

So you feel we should go into the season with only Harvin, Jenkins, Wright & Burton on the roster & bank on 5'10" Jarius Wright, who caught 22 passes for 310 yards in 2012, as our deep threat "go to guy" to compliment 5'11" Harvin? I like the kid but haven't seen enough of him to say he's our #2 guy & also believe we need a WR over 6' that has speed & can get up & get the ball.

It was clear we needed a deep threat WR last year with Harvin still on the field. How has that not changed, especially considering we have 2 less WR on the roster than we had last year?

singersp
02-19-2013, 07:15 AM
What I read there, is that we are better off keeping Harvin than signing any of those guys. And, really, I don't see us adding a high priced WR unless we lose Harvin. Bowe is already negotiating with KC, Jennings has been hurt too much and has connections in MIA, Wallace is a one trick pony coming off a bad year who I believe will be wildly overpaid by somebody. Welker is only a fit if we suddenly find ourselves without the awesome slot receiver we have now.

Well, it sucked, to be sure, but we were kinda cap-strapped last offseason and only had cash for bargains, and then 3 of the 5 additions he did make got hurt with lingering, performance harming or season-ending injuries (Simpson, Childs & Carlson...D'oh!) Leaving us to depend on 4th round rookies Wright and Ellison as starters more than expected.

True, we don't trot out 3 WRs very damn much. But, it has become painfully obvious that we have one of the lowest total talent levels at WR in the entire, passing-driven league! We simply cannot go through another year with this level of lacking or we'll be hurting Ponder instead of helping him, and worst yet, creating another excuse for another year of Pondering what he could do if he had some weapons.

As much as I'd love to see some youthful potential added to D too, I feel like we need to concentrate a bit more on offense this draft, and remove as many excuses for poor QB play as possible, so we know what we have there earlier than later.

I agree, we did have one of the lowest total talent levels at WR in the entire, passing-driven league. We lacked a deep threat WR last year & I believe it hurt our passing game. People complained "Ponder had no one to throw to". "Ponder has no WR weapons other than Harvin"

The only thing that's changed on that this year is now Ponder has two of those WR going to FA. I think Wright needs to move up & fill one of those rolls, but we still need what we lacked last year, a viable deep threat WR. That would give us 5 WR's on the roster. Possibly 6 if they keep Childs, but after his injuries & never seeing preseason, that's questionable.

I don't want to see the lack of another damn good WR being an excuse for Ponder to be given yet a 3rd uncontested year in 2014.

I don't think we were that strapped for cash last year, we still had a surplus at the end of the year & I don't believe Carlson was a "bargain" no matter how you look at it.

singersp
02-19-2013, 07:34 AM
I think that the Vikings are a better team with Harvin than we are without. However, I don't think that the Vikings need Harvin. We proved that last season when we did just as well without him than we did with. Hell, Ponder may have improved, as he used Percy like a crutch before, and had to start trusting his other receivers once he was out.

If we can lock up Harvin for a decent price, I am OK with it. But if he wants Megatron type money, I would rather ship him and his attitude somewhere else.

He did start spreading the ball out more, but that's the only good that came out of it. We did win without him, but only because AD carried him through it.

In the 1st half of the season, ponder passed for 1,743 & 10 TD's with Harvin. In the 2nd half of the season, Ponder passed for 1,192 & 8 without him. In the 7 game stretch in the 2nd half of the season up until that last game of the season, Ponder only passed for 958 yards & 5 TD's.

NodakPaul
02-19-2013, 09:38 AM
He did start spreading the ball out more, but that's the only good that came out of it. We did win without him, but only because AD carried him through it.

In the 1st half of the season, ponder passed for 1,743 & 10 TD's with Harvin. In the 2nd half of the season, Ponder passed for 1,192 & 8 without him. In the 7 game stretch in the 2nd half of the season up until that last game of the season, Ponder only passed for 958 yards & 5 TD's.

Agreed. Ponder also hit a slump with Harvin gone which contributed to those stats. I think the slump had a lot to do with Harvin out of the line up, because Ponder had relied on him too much up to that point. He looked to be getting over that crutch nicely near the end of the season.

Again, I think the Vikings are a better team with Harvin than they are without. But not at any price.

kevoncox
02-19-2013, 09:56 AM
Just wanted to point out that Ponder looked terrible even with Harvin.
This team needs a total revamp of the WR position and needs the addition of atleast 3 new Wrs.
Jennings, Harvin, Patterson/(Allen) Wright and i might be satisfied

Purple Floyd
02-19-2013, 02:06 PM
So you feel we should go into the season with only Harvin, Jenkins, Wright & Burton on the roster & bank on 5'10" Jarius Wright, who caught 22 passes for 310 yards in 2012, as our deep threat "go to guy" to compliment 5'11" Harvin? I like the kid but haven't seen enough of him to say he's our #2 guy & also believe we need a WR over 6' that has speed & can get up & get the ball.

It was clear we needed a deep threat WR last year with Harvin still on the field. How has that not changed, especially considering we have 2 less WR on the roster than we had last year?

No, you didn't read my post. We only need 1 additional WR and that is a vertical WR. Wright can be the slot guy. The rest are just backups and IDC who that ends up being.

We DO NOT need a deep threat + a slot guy in addition to Wright and whoever else the staff decides to keep.

singersp
02-20-2013, 06:29 AM
Christian Ponder says Vikings want Percy Harvin back

Christian Ponder says Vikings want Percy Harvin back - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000140124/article/christian-ponder-we-want-percy-harvin-back)

singersp
02-20-2013, 06:33 AM
Percy Harvin: 'I got nothing to say'

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22623469/minnesota-vikings-percy-harvin-i-got-nothing-say

marshallvike
02-20-2013, 09:16 AM
Percy Harvin: 'I got nothing to say'

Minnesota Vikings' Percy Harvin: 'I got nothing to say' - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22623469/minnesota-vikings-percy-harvin-i-got-nothing-say)

If he had been smart enough to take this stance a few months ago, we wouldn't even have this thread.
What could he have possibly said to Frazier that would have been bad enough to basically kick him off the team for the rest of the year? Must've called him a c0(ksucker.
(Bull Durham ref.)