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Purple Floyd
01-06-2013, 11:47 AM
Anyone else watch him play this year? Freshman QB who reminds me of Brady when he stands in the pocket and RG3 when he runs.

If there is anything the team can do to get this guy in the draft when he comes out they should do it.

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 12:08 PM
Anyone else watch him play this year? Freshman QB who reminds me of Brady when he stands in the pocket and RG3 when he runs.

If there is anything the team can do to get this guy in the draft when he comes out they should do it.

Start Joe for 16 games next year at QB.:)

singersp
01-06-2013, 01:05 PM
Anyone else watch him play this year? Freshman QB who reminds me of Brady when he stands in the pocket and RG3 when he runs.

If there is anything the team can do to get this guy in the draft when he comes out they should do it.

Johnny Football is not eligible until at least 2014.

Unfortunately at that time Ponder will still be young & still learning & still have not had enough starts yet.

VikesfaninWis
01-06-2013, 01:07 PM
Johnny Football is not eligible until at least 2014.

Unfortunately at that time Ponder will still be young & still learning & still have not had enough starts yet.

No kidding huh? When is enough is enough? Sick of being a fan of a franchise that just doesn't get it.

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 01:37 PM
Johnny Football is not eligible until at least 2014.

Unfortunately at that time Ponder will still be young & still learning & still have not had enough starts yet.

Pretty sure next year is make or break for CP. I would not be at all surprised if we use a mid round pick on a QB this year.

singersp
01-06-2013, 01:44 PM
Pretty sure next year is make or break for CP. I would not be at all surprised if we use a mid round pick on a QB this year.

I was being sarcastic.

This year was supposed to be make or break for Ponder (26 starts). Now it will be next year will be make or break for Ponder (42 starts)

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 01:51 PM
Johnny Football is not eligible until at least 2014.

Unfortunately at that time Ponder will still be young & still learning & still have not had enough starts yet.

Wasn't it in his third year that Brees suddenly became a good QB. Unfortunately, the Chargers had already given up on him and used their 1st pick on a QB. then he blossomed. Not saying it WILL happen for CP. Just saying it could.


If it doesn't we're screwed.

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 01:55 PM
I was being sarcastic.

This year was supposed to be make or break for Ponder (26 starts). Now it will be next year will be make or break for Ponder (42 starts)

It wasn't supposed to be make or break this year for CP in the teams mind. They have said repeatedly they are working in a three year plan for him. It was only considered a make or break in the minds of some on here.

mountainviking
01-06-2013, 02:01 PM
It wasn't supposed to be make or break this year for CP in the teams mind. They have said repeatedly they are working in a three year plan for him. It was only considered a make or break in the minds of some on here.

The way I see it, we fix the other holes this year, most notably by adding 2 WRs with a chance of getting open deep, and bolster our defense with some depth improvements at DT, CB, and LB. Then, if Ponder fails in year three he is out of excuses and we'll have the talent to pick another QB or attract a FA QB who can succeed with the team we'll have around them.

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 02:04 PM
The way I see it, we fix the other holes this year, most notably by adding 2 WRs with a chance of getting open deep, and bolster our defense with some depth improvements at DT, CB, and LB. Then, if Ponder fails in year three he is out of excuses and we'll have the talent to pick another QB or attract a FA QB who can succeed with the team we'll have around them.

That sounds like an excellent plan. It seems that is the direction the front office is headed also.

Lippythelion69
01-06-2013, 03:32 PM
I don't see the arm strength in ponder

Purple Floyd
01-09-2013, 07:30 PM
I was being sarcastic.

This year was supposed to be make or break for Ponder (26 starts). Now it will be next year will be make or break for Ponder (42 starts)
I believe you were the one who made up the whole "Jackson needs 2 consecutive years starting before we can really evaluate him" theory. Yet you are so quick to proclaim Ponder as a failure in only 1 plus years of starts. The difference between the two is that Ponder has at least stayed healthy enough to get more consecutive starts at an earlier time in his career.

VKG4LFE
01-09-2013, 11:50 PM
Wasn't it in his third year that Brees suddenly became a good QB. Unfortunately, the Chargers had already given up on him and used their 1st pick on a QB. then he blossomed. Not saying it WILL happen for CP. Just saying it could.


If it doesn't we're screwed.


The difference is Drew Brees actually has an arm, ponder, not so much.

Ranger
01-09-2013, 11:54 PM
The difference is Drew Brees actually has an arm, ponder, not so much.

Drew Brees does not have a great arm. It's his touch and accuracy that makes him a great quarterback.

Peyton doesn't have a great arm either, and it's not always needed. Look at Rivers. He doesn't have Cutler type arm strength, but for a few years his deep ball was beautiful. Easily the best in the league.

Reignman
01-10-2013, 12:12 AM
Maybe Brees doesn't have the prototypical gunslinger arm, but it's still stronger than Ponders, plus he has the vision to find the open guy and deliver the ball on time. Hopefully Ponder will develop some better vision by next year, but I seriously hope we don't waste the entire season if he still hasn't show any improvement by mid season.

singersp
01-10-2013, 06:25 AM
It wasn't supposed to be make or break this year for CP in the teams mind. They have said repeatedly they are working in a three year plan for him. It was only considered a make or break in the minds of some on here.

And that's who I was referring to.

singersp
01-10-2013, 06:33 AM
I believe you were the one who made up the whole "Jackson needs 2 consecutive years starting before we can really evaluate him" theory. Yet you are so quick to proclaim Ponder as a failure in only 1 plus years of starts. The difference between the two is that Ponder has at least stayed healthy enough to get more consecutive starts at an earlier time in his career.

I didn't make it up. I believe in that. I'm looking for around 25 consecutive games barring no injury. I maintained all year he should finish the year starting as well. Ponder has now played in 27 consecutive games.

Last year & at the beginning of this year, others here claimed this year was make or break for Ponder. Now some of those are claiming next year will be.

Personally, I don't think he's going to get a lot better, but he showed maybe enough at the end of the year to put him in that gray area. The FO will keep him & start him no doubt, but my guess is they bring in a veteran backup of mediocre talent. There will be no real competition for the starting job. It will be Ponder's. There's no one in the talent pool of QB's in this years draft that a lot of people are talking about, so I don't expect a move there either. A latter rounder maybe, but I don't think so with MBT on the roster.

Purple Floyd
01-10-2013, 07:56 AM
I believe they are going to sink or swim with Ponder and that they will not have any sort of alternative to push him once camp opens up. I actually would not be surprised if they kept Webb as the backup.

Marrdro
01-10-2013, 08:36 AM
I was being sarcastic.

This year was supposed to be make or break for Ponder (26 starts). Now it will be next year will be make or break for Ponder (42 starts)

Make or break.....26 starts....Been listening to yutz fans, yutz reporters and yutz ESPN talking heads again.

I wonder what the Giants would be sitting like if they gave up on Eli after 26 or 42 starts......

Reality is, Ponder will still be making mistakes late into his career. Even the great Noodle still threw off his back foot, missed wide open recievers and threw INT's by trying to force the ball. Again, its reality.

Ranger
01-10-2013, 08:38 AM
We have to take Ponder's first season with a grain of salt. He had no offseason to prepare, and wasn't preparing as the starter (getting the reps) until what...week six or so? It puts a guy at somewhat of a disadvantage, and to be fair to him, not every quarterback is going to come out of the gates like Newton did. What Cam did was exceptional, and the same could be said about RGIII, and to a somewhat lesser extent, Luck. Now, Luck and RGIII are ridiculous rookies. Rookies we haven't seen since, what, 1984?

Marrdro
01-10-2013, 08:41 AM
We have to take Ponder's first season with a grain of salt. He had no offseason to prepare, and wasn't preparing as the starter (getting the reps) until what...week six or so? It puts a guy at somewhat of a disadvantage, and to be fair to him, not every quarterback is going to come out of the gates like Newton did. What Cam did was exceptional, and the same could be said about RGIII, and to a somewhat lesser extent, Luck. Now, Luck and RGIII are ridiculous rookies. Rookies we haven't seen since, what, 1984?

Like Cam, it will be interesting to see how well the 1rst year cats do in their second year. Again, just because Cam had a crappy season doesn't mean I am now calling him a bust. I'm just saying that sometimes it takes D-coords time to figure out how to defend these guys.

Besides, Luck really didn't have that great of a year this year. His stats are pretty "Sanchez" like in his first year.

Ranger
01-10-2013, 08:46 AM
Like Cam, it will be interesting to see how well the 1rst year cats do in their second year. Again, just because Cam had a crappy season doesn't mean I am now calling him a bust. I'm just saying that sometimes it takes D-coords time to figure out how to defend these guys.

Besides, Luck really didn't have that great of a year this year. His stats are pretty "Sanchez" like in his first year.

Dalton also had a significant drop off in play in his second season. I think we'll have a better understanding of them following next season, to be honest.

Marrdro
01-10-2013, 08:55 AM
Dalton also had a significant drop off in play in his second season. I think we'll have a better understanding of them following next season, to be honest.
Agree.

I'm going to be very interested in how well Wilson plays this weekend. More importantly, I'm going to be interested in how they use Lynch, the WR corps and the defense to help him this weekend.

Lets not forget, the kid is on a playoff team from last year that featured TJ with a torn pec.

Ranger
01-10-2013, 09:10 AM
That Seattle team is pretty damn solid. Their line can apply pressure, and when healthy, they have pretty great depth. Their linebackers, with the arrival of Bobby Wags, is very solid, and the secondary is amazing. Two rangy, long bump and run corners, a free safety with the best range in the NFL, and a strong safety who is as large (or larger) than their linebacker Hill, but has sideline to sideline ability.

They have a great, great running back, versatile quarterback, and decent receivers. Even their tight end was clutch against the 'skins.

If they have another good draft, adding some depth to the DT, WR, and OL, they'll be set up for years and years of success, as they're all young players. Their defense has two first round starters, everybody else was taken later in the draft. Whoever handles the drafting on that team has done an outstanding job, as the system players they've brought in have been brilliant additions, and they're getting veteran play out of kids. Earl Thomas is only in his third season and he's one of the savvy vets...it's ridiculous.

tarkenton10
01-10-2013, 11:35 AM
Johnny Football is not eligible until at least 2014.

Unfortunately at that time Ponder will still be young & still learning & still have not had enough starts yet.

If we are talking 2014 draft then I want Clowney. He is a beast and will be a disruptive force that we need, he will live in opposing team's backfields.

12purplepride28
01-10-2013, 12:02 PM
Make or break.....26 starts....Been listening to yutz fans, yutz reporters and yutz ESPN talking heads again.

I wonder what the Giants would be sitting like if they gave up on Eli after 26 or 42 starts......

Reality is, Ponder will still be making mistakes late into his career. Even the great Noodle still threw off his back foot, missed wide open recievers and threw INT's by trying to force the ball. Again, its reality.

One of the few times I agree 100% with you, even if you did throw a Favre dig in there. Seriously guys, what the hell? Giving up on our QB after 2 years in the league? We got to the playoffs with him as a starter this year, and that is with missing his #1 WR for much of the season. We have absolutely no deep threat or big, good WRs. Give him some targets and a little more time as he's shown more potential than Jackson ever did.

12purplepride28
01-10-2013, 12:06 PM
Agree.

I'm going to be very interested in how well Wilson plays this weekend. More importantly, I'm going to be interested in how they use Lynch, the WR corps and the defense to help him this weekend.

Lets not forget, the kid is on a playoff team from last year that featured TJ with a torn pec.

They weren't a playoffs team last year

Marrdro
01-10-2013, 01:48 PM
They weren't a playoffs team last year

I was wondering who would catch that gaf. Thought it would be Singer.

VKG4LFE
01-10-2013, 11:10 PM
Drew Brees does not have a great arm. It's his touch and accuracy that makes him a great quarterback.

Peyton doesn't have a great arm either, and it's not always needed. Look at Rivers. He doesn't have Cutler type arm strength, but for a few years his deep ball was beautiful. Easily the best in the league.

Brees may not have the gun slinging arm which would qualify him as having a "great" or "strong" arm, but if I'm a saints fan I don't have to worry on an out route of the far sideline of the ball either a. not getting there or b. getting pick sixed.

Maybe it is just going to take a couple of years for me to be able to stop holding my breath on these types of passes Ponder throws.

singersp
01-11-2013, 07:38 AM
We have to take Ponder's first season with a grain of salt. He had no offseason to prepare, and wasn't preparing as the starter (getting the reps) until what...week six or so? It puts a guy at somewhat of a disadvantage, and to be fair to him, not every quarterback is going to come out of the gates like Newton did. What Cam did was exceptional, and the same could be said about RGIII, and to a somewhat lesser extent, Luck. Now, Luck and RGIII are ridiculous rookies. Rookies we haven't seen since, what, 1984?

People toss that out way to easily. He had what we had of a TC, same as everyone else, plus an additional 9 weeks to prepare. 4 preseason games +5 regular season games before starting, which is 5 weeks longer than any who was drafted that started game 1 had.

McNabb was the one who was cheated out of a full offseason to work with his primary receivers, not Ponder. Ponder was the back up QB. The drafted QB's that started day 1 for their team are the ones that got hurt the most from a short offseason & yet some of those did better than Ponder. Had there been a full offseason, he still would have primarily been with the second team.

If you count the minicamps that were lost plus the few days shorter that TC was, how many days were actually lost? A whole lot is not really accomplished in those early camps anyways.

Let's also not forget Ponder was the only Viking who was drafted & perhaps the only player drafted to receive the playbook on draft day, so he had ample time to read & learn it.

singersp
01-11-2013, 07:52 AM
One of the few times I agree 100% with you, even if you did throw a Favre dig in there. Seriously guys, what the hell? Giving up on our QB after 2 years in the league?.

Vikings QB's were given up on with far less than 26 starts. Hell after 6 starts or less even.

Are you saying you haven't given up on Webb? :P

I'll ask the question that's been asked by others for several years....

"How many starts does he need?"

With that said, I believe Ponder will be here next year since there is no other clear cut alternative & he did just enough to save himself for perhaps one more year. Missing the playoff game might have been his saving grace. Had he played & stunk it up, the Vikings might have gone QB shopping in the offseason.

Purple Floyd
01-11-2013, 08:27 AM
One of the few times I agree 100% with you, even if you did throw a Favre dig in there. Seriously guys, what the hell? Giving up on our QB after 2 years in the league?.

Vikings QB's were given up on with far less than 26 starts. Hell after 6 starts or less even.

Are you saying you haven't given up on Webb? :P

I'll ask the question that's been asked by others for several years....

"How many starts does he need?"

With that said, I believe Ponder will be here next year since there is no other clear cut alternative & he did just enough to save himself for perhaps one more year. Missing the playoff game might have been his saving grace. Had he played & stunk it up, the Vikings might have gone QB shopping in the offseason.

So how many were you willing to give Booty when we drafted him a few years back?

singersp
01-11-2013, 08:47 AM
So how many were you willing to give Booty when we drafted him a few years back?

Booty's hands were too small to play pro football. He would have & was fighting a losing battle from day 1.

Purple Floyd
01-11-2013, 09:13 AM
Booty's hands were too small to play pro football. He would have & was fighting a losing battle from day 1.
You have a hand fetish? That is like saying Wilson is too short to play QB for the Seahawks. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

Marrdro
01-11-2013, 01:43 PM
Vikings QB's were given up on with far less than 26 starts. Hell after 6 starts or less even.

Are you saying you haven't given up on Webb? :P

I'll ask the question that's been asked by others for several years....

"How many starts does he need?"

With that said, I believe Ponder will be here next year since there is no other clear cut alternative & he did just enough to save himself for perhaps one more year. Missing the playoff game might have been his saving grace. Had he played & stunk it up, the Vikings might have gone QB shopping in the offseason.

Now why would you say something like that. Now all the chuckleheads will be saying he missed the game just so he wouldn't stink it up.

In the end, he progressed throughout the year, and was actually playing pretty good, all things considered, at the end of the season. Only a negative Nancy would assume that he would stink things up.

singersp
01-12-2013, 11:27 AM
You have a hand fetish? That is like saying Wilson is too short to play QB for the Seahawks. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

Not sure how that insinuates any kind of fetish at all, nor is it even remotely like saying Wilson is too short to play QB.

If your hands are too small to grip the ball, you're going to fumbling, dropping the football a lot & throwing more bad passes.

Purple Floyd
01-12-2013, 12:41 PM
Not sure how that insinuates any kind of fetish at all, nor is it even remotely like saying Wilson is too short to play QB.

If your hands are too small to grip the ball, you're going to fumbling, dropping the football a lot & throwing more bad passes.

Seems he did fine in college. Do they use a bigger ball in the pros?

John David Booty Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/john-david-booty-1.html)
And Ponder
Christian Ponder Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/christian-ponder-1.html)

Not that he is any sort of world beater, but where do you see any evidence that his hand size limited what he could do with a football? No mention anywhere about him fumbling and only this in his stats:


CAREER: His 518 career completions is fifth on the USC all-time chart. His 6,125 career passing yards is fifth on USC's all-time list. His 5,945 yards of total offense is sixth on USC's all-time ladder. His 55 career touchdown passes is fourth most at USC. In his career, he threw at least 1 TD pass in 22 of his 23 starts, at least 2 TD passes in a game 16 times, at least 3 TDs in a game 11 times, at least 4 TDs in a game 3 times and had 200-plus passing yards in 18 games (4 times with 300-plus yards). He was 20-3 as a starter. As a starter against AP ranked opponents, he was 9-0 while going 185-of-292 (63.4%) for 2,267 yards (251.9 average) with 23 TDs and just 4 interceptions.



Hard to do all of that if holding on to the ball and throwing it is a problem.

singersp
01-12-2013, 01:28 PM
Seems he did fine in college. Do they use a bigger ball in the pros?

The minimum circumference of a college ball is 20-3/4"
The minimum circumference of a NFL ball is 21"

I believe we went thru this when Culpepper was here & he dropped a lot of balls due to his small hands.

Purple Floyd
01-12-2013, 01:41 PM
It may have been due to other things. Like I originally said, it seems pretty hypocritical to judge one player without ever seeing them play based on something that never limited them before yet think you need 26 starts from someone else.