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SharperImage
01-05-2013, 10:13 PM
Damn...damn....damn - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap5Sw3xsZhU)

is all I got to say. I mean I predicted the season correctly. Proud of our guys. I hope we draft Keenan Allen in the 1st, sign a Quality WR in free agency. Bring in a QB that can push and challenge ponder. WE WILL NOT SUCCEED WITHOUT A PASSING ATTACK. Having a QB who NEVER threw for over 300 yards in 1 game the whole season is unacceptable. Our Top receiving yards WR was percy at 677 and he didnt play the last 6-7 games?

Randy Moss
01-05-2013, 10:17 PM
At least we will never again have to listen to anyone even suggest that Webb has a chance at being even a serviceable backup, muchless a starter.

RK.
01-05-2013, 10:17 PM
Well that was an ugly game. However a great season and watching AP made it fun.

Caine
01-05-2013, 10:17 PM
Team played like crap. They weren't supposed to be there, and they played like it.

Defense fell apart.

Offense was terrible.

Just ugly across the board.

Caine

iowa
01-05-2013, 10:22 PM
playing the packers at their place with our 2nd string qb who hadn't thrown a pass all year was a recipe for failure.we need to get a better back-up qb, webb clearly is not an nfl qb.all in all we had a good year, exceeded most expectations, the future looks pretty bright.for you people calling out ponder for not playing, did you really want him out there throwing with an arm that is even weaker than normal ?

acman1
01-05-2013, 10:32 PM
Did anyone else but me think the turning point in the game was the Williams offsides penalty? Maybe it's the beer, but I think that was a HUGE penalty. They scored a TD on that drive because of it....

NodakPaul
01-05-2013, 10:39 PM
Did anyone else but me think the turning point in the game was the Williams offsides penalty? Maybe it's the beer, but I think that was a HUGE penalty. They scored a TD on that drive because of it....

I think the turning point of the game was when Webb was designated starter.

VikesfaninWis
01-05-2013, 10:39 PM
playing the packers at their place with our 2nd string qb who hadn't thrown a pass all year was a recipe for failure.we need to get a better back-up qb, webb clearly is not an nfl qb.all in all we had a good year, exceeded most expectations, the future looks pretty bright.for you people calling out ponder for not playing, did you really want him out there throwing with an arm that is even weaker than normal ?


We had a better backup option, his name was Shane Rosenfels. However he was to "old" supposedly for this youth movement the Vikings are in, and they didn't want there pretty boy Ponder to think there was a competition going on.

VikesfaninWis
01-05-2013, 10:40 PM
I think the turning point of the game was when Webb was designated starter.

+1

keystonevike
01-05-2013, 10:40 PM
Did anyone else but me think the turning point in the game was the Williams offsides penalty? Maybe it's the beer, but I think that was a HUGE penalty. They scored a TD on that drive because of it....

Yes it was huge and stupid, just like the 12-men-on-the-field penalty that gave them a 1st and goal situation out of a FG try.

VikesfaninWis
01-05-2013, 10:41 PM
Yes it was huge and stupid, just like the 12-men-on-the-field penalty that gave them a 1st and goal situation out of a FG try.

The Kings of Choking. It's the only thing they have done consistently in their existence.

acman1
01-05-2013, 10:45 PM
Yeah but we kinda had the momentum up 3-0 after a pretty good drive and then K. Williams lines up clearly offsides...that was huge, who knows what happens if we get it back after a punt.

I agree however that Webb is not our QB.

thorshammer
01-05-2013, 10:48 PM
I think the turning point of the game was when Webb was designated starter.
Agreed ... Webb gave it a go ... it was a good year but Webb didn't have a chance ... felt bad for Webb ... wish ponder had been able to play ...

VikesfaninWis
01-05-2013, 10:49 PM
Yeah but we kinda had the momentum up 3-0 after a pretty good drive and then K. Williams lines up clearly offsides...that was huge, who knows what happens if we get it back after a punt.

I agree however that Webb is not our QB.


Up 3-0 against GB in their stadium is not momentum.

acman1
01-05-2013, 10:50 PM
Agreed ... Webb gave it a go ... it was a good year but Webb didn't have a chance ... can't believe everyone is throwing him under the bus ...
Yes, but the first drive wasn't bad. We had momentum and then lined up offsides for no reason. Maybe we pound the ball and keep doing what worked on the first drive after a punt.

acman1
01-05-2013, 10:51 PM
Up 3-0 against GB in their stadium is not momentum.

It's a big win. GB is really fucking good. We get another solid drive, who knows.

Tad7
01-05-2013, 11:02 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1959173/joewebbugh.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1958919/ohwebb.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1958899/lolwebb.gif

VikesfaninWis
01-05-2013, 11:04 PM
It's a big win. GB is really fucking good. We get another solid drive, who knows.

OK.

Tad7
01-05-2013, 11:07 PM
Sage Rosenfels would've been the best QB on this team. By far the 2nd best if you don't believe that. Cutting him turned to be a huge mistake.

acman1
01-05-2013, 11:10 PM
I'm also in the camp, probably in the camp by myself eating cold cans of baked beans, that thinks that AP or AD, whatever he wants to be called, that all his rushing yards were pure luck. Just hitting lucky big runs. ATTACK!!!

thorshammer
01-05-2013, 11:28 PM
I feel good about next year ... we had a hell of a season ... disappointed with the loss ... but hell of a year for sure ....

thorshammer
01-05-2013, 11:29 PM
I'm also in the camp, probably in the camp by myself eating cold cans of baked beans, that thinks that AP or AD, whatever he wants to be called, that all his rushing yards were pure luck. Just hitting lucky big runs. ATTACK!!!
You're kidding right .... troll

VKG4LFE
01-05-2013, 11:32 PM
I'm also in the camp, probably in the camp by myself eating cold cans of baked beans, that thinks that AP or AD, whatever he wants to be called, that all his rushing yards were pure luck. Just hitting lucky big runs. ATTACK!!!

Thats just non sense. I agree with the kdub penalty being a turning point. However nodak might be right the announcement of webb being the starter very well could have been the ultimate turning point.

Mr Anderson
01-06-2013, 12:10 AM
Guhh

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 12:12 AM
I'm also in the camp, probably in the camp by myself eating cold cans of baked beans, that thinks that AP or AD, whatever he wants to be called, that all his rushing yards were pure luck. Just hitting lucky big runs. ATTACK!!!

How did that Mayan calendar end of the world thing work out for you?

Reignman
01-06-2013, 02:10 AM
Not that it made a difference now, but I don't understand the 12 man penalty. The Packers never snapped the ball. Different rules on FG attempts? Every time I've seen extra defenders running off the field the offense has had to snap the ball to get the too many men on the field call.

TheAnimal93
01-06-2013, 05:01 AM
The NFL is getting to be like the WWE. Fricking contrived penalties, oddball spots, penalties for one and not another. Seems to me the more I watch, the more it reads like a soap opera. Brothers Harbaugh anyone? Or Rodgers vs Manning? Who would you like to see in the SB?

ConnecticutViking
01-06-2013, 05:29 AM
Good season, I never expected 10 wins and our defense looked decent this year. I like a lot of the young players: Rudolph, Smith, Cook, Kalil, Walsh, Wright. There is one glaring area where we must address! QUARTERBACK! Webb and Ponder are not the answer. The NFL is a QB league. Look at all the other playoff teams: RG3, Luck, Manning, Ryan, Dalton, Rodgers, Shaub, Wilson. Where would Ponder rank on this list. In fact, If I took every starting QB in the NFL, where would Ponder rank? Bring in a Free Agent backup and lets have a competition already. (NO TEBOW)

vikesrgreat2
01-06-2013, 05:47 AM
Disappointing end to a great season. When it was determined that Ponder couldn't play, the first thought that came to my mind was, "We're going to get killed!". The game actually turned out about the way I thought it would go - assuming Ponder was QB. Asking a backup QB who threw no passes in regular-season action to suddenly start at Green Bay in the playoffs is a lot to expect!

It was nice to see the Vikings get a TD pass, even if it was too little, too late. The team needs to be proud of their season, even though the game last night was disappointing. In the offseason, I think the team needs to be committed to addressing the needs of the NFL's 32nd-ranked passing offense. We need to make sure we can address the team needs at both QB and WR. This HAS to be a priority for 2013!

i_bleed_purple
01-06-2013, 06:19 AM
Not that it made a difference now, but I don't understand the 12 man penalty. The Packers never snapped the ball. Different rules on FG attempts? Every time I've seen extra defenders running off the field the offense has had to snap the ball to get the too many men on the field call.

This year they changed the rule. As soon as the snap is imminent, the refs will blow the ball dead.


This game was a joke for a number of reasons.

a) Webb
b) Defense in the first half
c) Biased Refs

As I predicted, the team with the advantage here was the one who could pass in the weather, NOT the team who could run.

In the first drive, we have a heavy run game, sprinkling in some read option, and it worked GREAT. Webb misses Jenkins BADLY on third down and we settle for a field goal. Not horrible, if we can keep it up. Game turned around quickly with the KW offsides, the 12 men, and Rodgers torching our secondary.

Exactly three people came out to play today. Kluwe, Peterson and Harrison Smith (until he got hurt). Everybody else was horrible. (ok, Rudolph gets a pass today) Kalil got lit up, as did the rest of our line. Webb needs no explanation, Our receivers weren't making plays, our DL couldnt' get pressure, our LB couldn't cover, nor could our corners. Rodgers was picking apart our zone like it's his job (yeah, yeah, shaddup).

Everybody in the "give webb a chance" should be lining up for their crow. The guy is NOT an NFL passer. I don't think he's a top-90 QB in the league. This kind of performance made me actually miss Ponder.....

This game was just frustrating, because it would be a completely different game with Ponder in, or hell, even just some good playcalling. I don't understand abandoning the run after the first quarter. We had probably 10 runs or so to Peterson in the first two drives, 12 more in the whole game. Every time we used the read option, it seemed to get decent to good yardage. Why did we abandon that?

As Deion Sanders said in the recap: "When things like this happen at this point in the season, you have problems"

skum
01-06-2013, 06:38 AM
Felt like we would have had a chance with Ponder playing but also feel like that Musgrave didn't really give Webb the correct gameplan in order for him to succeed.. The first drive went pretty good, but after that it seemed like he wanted him to be Christian Ponder and they are so different..

The refs in this game were horrible to, the OPI on Nelson that was not called and when they scored the TD after the 12-men they had an OL down field that wasnt called either. Also a few holdings and a few roughness calls not called.. When Aromoshudo was tackled midair without touching the ball first and Adrian tackled and dragged down by his helmet.. You can't do those things and they let them.

But yeah Webb was horrible, but he was asked to throw the ball 30 times and he is not an NFL passer, so when you do that.. you lose..

Also found it odd that Ponder didn't didnt gave it a shot because he had the same injury in college and played tru it, but i guess if he had any chance to go he would have been in there.

i_bleed_purple
01-06-2013, 06:42 AM
Also found it odd that Ponder didn't didnt gave it a shot because he had the same injury in college and played tru it, but i guess if he had any chance to go he would have been in there.

Apparently Ponder was struggling to put on his shirt, nevermind completing an NFL pass. If they thought Webb gave us a better shot at winning, he must have been bad.

da_scrum
01-06-2013, 06:58 AM
horrible game plan by musgrave---period.

Scoot
01-06-2013, 07:24 AM
NO blame to the defense at all, they held GB to 24. I think if you expected less than you’re dreaming. If I was AP I would be pissed for not getting the ball enough. The play calling was horrible. If I was the offensive coordinator I would not have put the game on the shoulders of a second string QB.

singersp
01-06-2013, 07:25 AM
Not that it made a difference now, but I don't understand the 12 man penalty. The Packers never snapped the ball. Different rules on FG attempts? Every time I've seen extra defenders running off the field the offense has had to snap the ball to get the too many men on the field call.

I'm still trying to figure out how McCarthy had the benefit of the extra time at end of the quarter to decide to challenge the TD play, decides to challenge it after they watch replays of it & then after successfully challenging it, there's still 28 seconds left to go in the quarter.

Plus how Nelson doesn't get flagged at the 3 yard line for offensive pass interference when he blatantly & very obviously pushed off Jefferson to be able to make that deep catch from Rodgers. That and as obvious as it was, the announcers didn't say squat about it.

singersp
01-06-2013, 07:46 AM
I think the turning point of the game was when Webb was designated starter.

I don't think any of us expected Webb to play as poorly as he did. It was Webb's worst game I recall ever seeing him play.

Granted I can understanding him not having his timing down pat with the starters as he had very little time with them before being told he was going to start or being a little slower getting going since it was over a year since he played in a regular season game, but some of those throws & decisions were just terrible, especially when he McNabbed the ball at wide open receivers or over threw them.

It was an ugly game all around on both sides of the ball. On defense Rodgers often had way to much time to throw the ball and way to many wide open receivers.

MaxVike
01-06-2013, 07:57 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how McCarthy had the benefit of the extra time at end of the quarter to decide to challenge the TD play, decides to challenge it after they watch replays of it & then after successfully challenging it, there's still 28 seconds left to go in the quarter.

Plus how Nelson doesn't get flagged at the 3 yard line for offensive pass interference when he blatantly & very obviously pushed off Jefferson to be able to make that deep catch from Rodgers. That and as obvious as it was, the announcers didn't say squat about it.

Agreed Singer... My wife is now watching the games with me and I had no chance of explaining that one. Plus, Michaels and Collinsworth didn't explain it either. And, agreed re: the Nelson push off.

midgensa
01-06-2013, 07:59 AM
Damn...damn....damn - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap5Sw3xsZhU)

is all I got to say. I mean I predicted the season correctly. Proud of our guys. I hope we draft Keenan Allen in the 1st, sign a Quality WR in free agency. Bring in a QB that can push and challenge ponder. WE WILL NOT SUCCEED WITHOUT A PASSING ATTACK. Having a QB who NEVER threw for over 300 yards in 1 game the whole season is unacceptable. Our Top receiving yards WR was percy at 677 and he didnt play the last 6-7 games?

Ponder threw for 300 yards in a game this year. I am not going to show a link or anything ... just do a little research.

I agree that the WR position clearly needs addressed though. There needs to be 2 guys brought in to round a top five that includes Wright, Harvin and Simpson with two new guys.

All in all though ... I have to be pretty happy with this season. I am VERY disappointed in the playoff game because we looked like we thought we didn't deserve to be there. We looked listless because our QB was out and our players, at least on offense, clearly thought we had no chance and played like it.

We came out solid running the ball and looked like we were on a mission ... then Joe Webb threw his first pass. To an open Michael Jenkins past the first down marker ... and it came up three yards short in the dirt. The whole team was deflated by that and you could tell. We just did not feel like we were going to score, and they were right.

I was fairly happy with the defense, but that drive at the end of the half and the start of the half falls on them and it was clear that the Packers knew the game was over at that point. They easily could have put more points on the board I think.

All in all though ... there is no reason not to feel good going forward with this team. I think the we clearly have a couple positions that need addressed and hopefully they will be. Will be an exciting offseason trying to add to a playoff team instead of trying to become competitive like last season.

MaxVike
01-06-2013, 08:07 AM
We had a better backup option, his name was Shane Rosenfels. However he was to "old" supposedly for this youth movement the Vikings are in, and they didn't want there pretty boy Ponder to think there was a competition going on.

Yeah, true. In hindsight, I wonder if Frazier and Spielman are wishing they kept Rosencopter and put Webb back to the WR position. He certainly can't be any worse than Aromoshadu or Burton for God's sake.

singersp
01-06-2013, 08:36 AM
Ponder threw for 300 yards in a game this year. I am not going to show a link or anything ... just do a little research.

Well, when you throw 52 passes in a game & have all the YAC that a WR like Harvin gives you, I sure as hell hope you're throwing for 300+ yards.

singersp
01-06-2013, 08:52 AM
We had a better backup option, his name was Shane Rosenfels. However he was to "old" supposedly for this youth movement the Vikings are in, and they didn't want there pretty boy Ponder to think there was a competition going on.

I don't think he was a better option. 3 teams cut him for a reason. He might have been a little more accurate in a passing, but he has no legs & would have been sacked more often than Webb.

It was bad enough trying to start a QB in a playoff game that hadn't see regular season action since last year. Imaging how bad it could have been trying to start a QB in a playoff game that hadn't see regular season action since 2008 other than 3 snaps to take a knee.

Max is spot on with his hindsight comment. That's exactly what it is. Webb has come in before without teams preparing for him & he has performed decent. A lot better than what we saw last night.

IMO, Starting a QB who last played in a game 5 years ago (Sage) would have been disastrous.

kevoncox
01-06-2013, 09:05 AM
Well its been a good season. I didn't feel helpless but this game probably cost Peterson the MVP award.
Just wanted to end the year on a couple of notes

1. Spielman needs to get his head out of hit butt or hit the door. We are pathetic on offense and we need a complete revamping of our Offense. Two WRs need to be brought in. 1 drafted, 1 signed. I am not talking about the Donny Avery type either. I am talking Jennings, Bowe etc. We cannot compete without being able to score. Too many games we expect the defense to play at a Hall of Fame level while the offense limps to the win. We need to have a team that the Offense can cover for the defense and vice versa.

2. Cutting Sage was a mistake, I said it then and I say it now. I never asked for Joe Webb and I knew he would never be an NFL QB. I hope those calling for Webb will never do so again. Good or bad Ponder is our QB for now. I have accepted that but since an upgrade won't be sought, we need to present a solid backup. Jason Campbell has my vote although, I think he will outplay Ponder.

3. As much as I like Allen, he has to go. He has lost a step and is not a dominant force. Ask yourself, when was the last time you saw him beat a guy. 99% of the sacks I see him get is from a play where the QB gets flushed and he falls into Allen's lap. The guy is just not dominant. His last true sack was from the fight he got his nose opened. Trade the guy and move on. Teams are playing him 1 on 1 and he is not winning..... on 2nd thought....he was playing with an injury this year so who knows.

4. Rogers has no fear of the Tampa 2... None... it's a defense that simply does not work against him. We need to play him differently. I'm not sure what, but we need to treat him like teams treated Vick and others and design a defense to use strictly when we play him. He loves the tampa and eats it up.

5. Good year but I am heart broken, another year without a title. Will I ever see one?

kevoncox
01-06-2013, 09:11 AM
I don't think he was a better option. 3 teams cut him for a reason. He might have been a little more accurate in a passing, but he has no legs & would have been sacked more often than Webb.

It was bad enough trying to start a QB in a playoff game that hadn't see regular season action since last year. Imaging how bad it could have been trying to start a QB in a playoff game that hadn't see regular season action since 2008 other than 3 snaps to take a knee.

Max is spot on with his hindsight comment. That's exactly what it is. Webb has come in before without teams preparing for him & he has performed decent. A lot better than what we saw last night.

IMO, Starting a QB who last played in a game 5 years ago (Sage) would have been disastrous.

I disagree. Webb has come in and looked decent. He has never looked the part of an NFL passer.
Not the eagles game, not the bears or lions game. He has looked like an athlete and project. Sage would not have had the defenses collapsing on him like Webb did. They completely ignored the passes and Sage would have atleast made them pay for it. Sage is no Manning foot wise, he is quick enough to slide and I like what he brings to the table. However, had we lost with Sage, people would be clamoring for Webb's feet.

i_bleed_purple
01-06-2013, 09:22 AM
I wonder what the higher statistical total from yesterday was. Yards Webb overthrew/underthrew a receiver, or Peterson's rushing yards.....

singersp
01-06-2013, 09:41 AM
I disagree. Webb has come in and looked decent. He has never looked the part of an NFL passer.
Not the eagles game, not the bears or lions game. He has looked like an athlete and project. Sage would not have had the defenses collapsing on him like Webb did. They completely ignored the passes and Sage would have atleast made them pay for it. Sage is no Manning foot wise, he is quick enough to slide and I like what he brings to the table. However, had we lost with Sage, people would be clamoring for Webb's feet.

LOL, and your basing that on what? What he was able to do 5 years ago? That was 5 years ago, not now. In 2009 he wasn't even quick enough to run a bootleg without getting tackled from behind. Sage would have still had the defense collapsing on him just as Webb did.

Purple Floyd
01-06-2013, 10:25 AM
LOL, and your basing that on what? What he was able to do 5 years ago? That was 5 years ago, not now. In 2009 he wasn't even quick enough to run a bootleg without getting tackled from behind. Sage would have still had the defense collapsing on him just as Webb did.


Webb looked like the second coming of Spergeon Wynn. There is absolutely no doubt that Sage would have been a better answer just on the fact he wouldn't have gotten as flustered and floundered like Webb did the first time he felt pressure. Good gad man, when you are about to get sacked and you flail the ball straight up in the air (not once mind you but multiple times) that is a clear sign you are not ready to be put in the situation you are in.

I don't remember the last time that I witnessed such a total clusterf*&k as I watched last night with Webb.


And that is EXACTLY why I thought it would be good to put Webb in a few times this year when Ponder was struggling to see how he would react and what would happen with the team around him. Instead we get to find out on national television in a playoff game in front to the world. yeah, that was such a better plan.

RK.
01-06-2013, 10:26 AM
We just need new QB's. Cut all of them and get some guys that can play in the nfl. This isn't college ball. Thats the level our QB's play at.

scottishvike
01-06-2013, 10:47 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how McCarthy had the benefit of the extra time at end of the quarter to decide to challenge the TD play, decides to challenge it after they watch replays of it & then after successfully challenging it, there's still 28 seconds left to go in the quarter.


I think you can challenge any time until the next snap of the ball. When they ruled no TD McCarthy lets the clock run down on the quarter and then challenges after seeing the replays, when they win the challenge they have to put the time back on the clock.

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 11:05 AM
Well its been a good season. I didn't feel helpless but this game probably cost Peterson the MVP award.
Just wanted to end the year on a couple of notes

1. Spielman needs to get his head out of hit butt or hit the door. We are pathetic on offense and we need a complete revamping of our Offense. Two WRs need to be brought in. 1 drafted, 1 signed. I am not talking about the Donny Avery type either. I am talking Jennings, Bowe etc. We cannot compete without being able to score. Too many games we expect the defense to play at a Hall of Fame level while the offense limps to the win. We need to have a team that the Offense can cover for the defense and vice versa.

2. Cutting Sage was a mistake, I said it then and I say it now. I never asked for Joe Webb and I knew he would never be an NFL QB. I hope those calling for Webb will never do so again. Good or bad Ponder is our QB for now. I have accepted that but since an upgrade won't be sought, we need to present a solid backup. Jason Campbell has my vote although, I think he will outplay Ponder.

3. As much as I like Allen, he has to go. He has lost a step and is not a dominant force. Ask yourself, when was the last time you saw him beat a guy. 99% of the sacks I see him get is from a play where the QB gets flushed and he falls into Allen's lap. The guy is just not dominant. His last true sack was from the fight he got his nose opened. Trade the guy and move on. Teams are playing him 1 on 1 and he is not winning..... on 2nd thought....he was playing with an injury this year so who knows.

4. Rogers has no fear of the Tampa 2... None... it's a defense that simply does not work against him. We need to play him differently. I'm not sure what, but we need to treat him like teams treated Vick and others and design a defense to use strictly when we play him. He loves the tampa and eats it up.

5. Good year but I am heart broken, another year without a title. Will I ever see one?

kevon, you make some good points here, but if you were expecting a title this year after the mess Childress left this team in, you were fooling yourself.
Last year was the first draft that Spielman called the shots. He did a damn fine job. As far as free agents, we had so many holes to fill that signing free agents seemed to be at least a year off. Build a core thru the draft first, then fill the holes with free agents. Little did we know that Frazier and co would do so well with the talent this year. Surprised the spit out of me. I thought he was lacking as a head coach. Guess I was wrong.
Jared did not play up to his normal level this year. Has he lost a step? Maybe. But I thought I heard he has been playing with a torn labrum this year. I know you played football. How tough is it to fight off a block with one arm? Remember he also had an off year two years ago and many said he was done then. Last year he came back with a phenomenal season.
I tend to lean toward your belief that Sage may have been a better answer as a backup for us. Who knows? What the hell happened to "I am light years ahead" Thompson? Is he that bad that they couldn't put him in after Joe put up 6 yds in the air in the first half? I feel bad for JW. He has amazing talent and we have not found a way to utilize it. Doesn't seem to be at QB.
With you on the T2 also. I hate that D. We have done prety well with it this year when we have controlled the ball and kept the D fresh, but when we play three and out or play from behind they seem to get gassed and then get eaten up.
All in all though, this has been a fantastic season considering our expectations at the beginning of the year.

singersp
01-06-2013, 11:56 AM
Webb looked like the second coming of Spergeon Wynn. There is absolutely no doubt that Sage would have been a better answer just on the fact he wouldn't have gotten as flustered and floundered like Webb did the first time he felt pressure. Good gad man, when you are about to get sacked and you flail the ball straight up in the air (not once mind you but multiple times) that is a clear sign you are not ready to be put in the situation you are in.

I don't remember the last time that I witnessed such a total clusterf*&k as I watched last night with Webb.


And that is EXACTLY why I thought it would be good to put Webb in a few times this year when Ponder was struggling to see how he would react and what would happen with the team around him. Instead we get to find out on national television in a playoff game in front to the world. yeah, that was such a better plan.

The difference is, you knew none of that before the game. People are quick to say Sage would have played better, but only in hindsight. How many of those Sage fanatics were making the claim that we should have kept & started Sage BEFORE the game?

You can't claim Sage wouldn't have been flustered or floundered. As far as interceptions go, Sage threw 9 of them in his last 5 starts & lost the last 4 games he's played in sans only to take a knee.

VikesfaninWis
01-06-2013, 12:05 PM
I don't think he was a better option. 3 teams cut him for a reason. He might have been a little more accurate in a passing, but he has no legs & would have been sacked more often than Webb.

It was bad enough trying to start a QB in a playoff game that hadn't see regular season action since last year. Imaging how bad it could have been trying to start a QB in a playoff game that hadn't see regular season action since 2008 other than 3 snaps to take a knee.

Max is spot on with his hindsight comment. That's exactly what it is. Webb has come in before without teams preparing for him & he has performed decent. A lot better than what we saw last night.

IMO, Starting a QB who last played in a game 5 years ago (Sage) would have been disastrous.

I still think Sage's experience would have been huge on this team if nothing else. He was seldom used, so saying he didn't at least have a chance to be better than Webb was last night is going out on a limb. The fact of the matter is that the Vikings went into the season with a 2nd year QB as the starter, a 3rd year QB who barely saw any action as the backup, and a rookie as the 3rd string. What does that tell you? They got rid of Rosenfels because they didn't want the pretty boy Ponder to get all baffled and be looking over his shoulder when he messed up.

If they git rid of Rosenfels because they felt that he wasn't capable of leading this team if Ponder went down, then they should have signed or traded for a different QB who would have been capable of leading the way when Ponder went down. I bet if the Vikings had Matt Flynn last night, things would have been a little different. When you have a QB group of Ponder, Webb, and Bethel-Thompson, you can't seriously be expecting much, especially when you put a who's who of WR's in there to lead them.

mountainviking
01-06-2013, 12:49 PM
NO blame to the defense at all, they held GB to 24. I think if you expected less than you’re dreaming. If I was AP I would be pissed for not getting the ball enough. The play calling was horrible. If I was the offensive coordinator I would not have put the game on the shoulders of a second string QB.

Exactly! On the road in the playoffs vs. one of the best Offenses in the whole league we held them to 24 points!??! And with the O turning the ball over 3 TIMES!!? Pretty freaking good effort by our D.

We stopped them twice in the first half and 5 times in a row in the second half (after they opened it with a scoring drive) giving our offense every chance to score some points, which they failed to do until it was entirely too late.

Disappointing game to be sure, but, as expected, we looked like we didn't belong in the playoffs, because we didn't. However, we have a good, young team with a lot of room for improvement from kids who are already starting. In just 2 years, we've gone from one of the oldest teams in the league to one of the youngest, AND! Won TEN games and a playoff spot in that 2nd year after fielding a 3-13 squad just a year earlier. I think Frazier deserves a look for Coach of the Year.

Our holes are fewer and even more obvious, IF we can pull off another successful draft like the last, and maybe sign a difference making FA or two, I see no reason why we can't or won't compete for our division next year, and for several seasons after!@!

SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 01:14 PM
Exactly! On the road in the playoffs vs. one of the best Offenses in the whole league we held them to 24 points!??! And with the O turning the ball over 3 TIMES!!? Pretty freaking good effort by our D.

We stopped them twice in the first half and 5 times in a row in the second half (after they opened it with a scoring drive) giving our offense every chance to score some points, which they failed to do until it was entirely too late.

Disappointing game to be sure, but, as expected, we looked like we didn't belong in the playoffs, because we didn't. However, we have a good, young team with a lot of room for improvement from kids who are already starting. In just 2 years, we've gone from one of the oldest teams in the league to one of the youngest, AND! Won TEN games and a playoff spot in that 2nd year after fielding a 3-13 squad just a year earlier. I think Frazier deserves a look for Coach of the Year.

Our holes are fewer and even more obvious, IF we can pull off another successful draft like the last, and maybe sign a difference making FA or two, I see no reason why we can't or won't compete for our division next year, and for several seasons after!@!

SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!

We beat San Fran, Houston and Green Bay.We pretty much ruined Chicago's season with that late season win and swept Detroit. We did belong in the playoffs. We earned it. Just sucks Ponder got hurt this week to limit us now.

battleaxe4cheese
01-06-2013, 01:41 PM
Not good. I suspect Webb will not be here next year but he is a class act and wish him well. Is Mcleod that bad that they wouldnt even consider him in the second half?

Ponder must have been in rough shape.

We had a small chance with Ponder and very little with Webb. We had to play a spectacular game mistake free to pull off a win. We stalled on offense and the defense played well as far as I am concerned, considering how long they were on the field.

Need a serious quarterback to backup and pudh Ponder next year.

Lippythelion69
01-06-2013, 02:44 PM
Yes it was huge and stupid, just like the 12-men-on-the-field penalty that gave them a 1st and goal situation out of a FG try.[/QUOTE]
Just like NFC championship game when chilly had 12 on the field and pushed us out of fg range
Against the aints
I'll never get over that

snowinapril
01-06-2013, 02:50 PM
I really think that the coaching staff expected more from Webb. They seemed to have confidence in him before kick off. If Webb had a back up, they may have felt better about more option plays. I thought the initial run of option plays were working well.

I am not sure that the coaches are going to give up on Webb. But they should explore another option in the draft or free agency.

I thought Ponder looked good the last two games of the season, too bad he didn't get to play.

Without a QB to make accurate throws, even for short gains to move the chains, it makes AD not as effective.

Brewtal
01-06-2013, 02:55 PM
Vikings need to send both Ponder and Webb walking. Webb because he is not a QB and Ponder because he is a bitch.

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 03:16 PM
Vikings need to send both Ponder and Webb walking. Webb because he is not a QB and Ponder because he is a bitch.

Good thing you're not the GM. We would be back to 3-13. You'd be brewtal

marshallvike
01-06-2013, 03:32 PM
I really think that the coaching staff expected more from Webb. They seemed to have confidence in him before kick off. If Webb had a back up, they may have felt better about more option plays. I thought the initial run of option plays were working well.

I am not sure that the coaches are going to give up on Webb. But they should explore another option in the draft or free agency.

I thought Ponder looked good the last two games of the season, too bad he didn't get to play.

Without a QB to make accurate throws, even for short gains to move the chains, it makes AD not as effective.
I think you are right snow. Although I thought the game was over when Ponder was ruled inactive, I expected more from Webb than what we saw last night. The coaches surely thought he would perform better than that. I hope they find some way for him to help us.

MaxVike
01-06-2013, 03:35 PM
Good thing you're not the GM. We would be back to 3-13. You'd be brewtal

I, for one, appreciate you being Brewtally honest...and, correct.

EricTheViking
01-06-2013, 04:30 PM
I don't have much to add to this discussion that hasn't already been mentioned -- we all have our strong opinions and will continue to debate the individual merits of the usual suspects in personnel, from players to coaches. But I did want to offer some thoughts:

Like all of you I was beside myself with disappointment last night. What happened with Webb was disgusting and embarrassing. And why oh why did this have to happen against the Packers, of all teams??? In one week we went from having one of the most memorable games, in recent history, against the Packers, to one of the most terrible games against them. They always seem to get the last laugh with us. Like the Favre years. Their golden boy came to our side (whether you liked it or not -- I learned to embrace it) and had the best season of his career. We swept the Pack and would have made it to the Super Bowl if it wasn't for dirty play by the Saints (and, maybe, that 12 men on the field penalty). But then, in 2010-11, the wheels fell off and, to add insult to injury, Green Bay goes and wins the Super Bowl. I hate Green Bay and their ugly ass uniforms and stupid name.

However, even though its frustrating being a Vikings fan, I really enjoyed this season. I mean if it was far better than most of us expected how can it be worse right now? I know some think 10-6 was a fluke but not me. We beat some really good teams this year. This team showed it has talent and, while I agree we have some critical issues which need to be addressed, I think we are looking fairly good going forwards. We want a Super Bowl win. We deserve a Super Bowl win for the years and years and years we've remained faithful. I mean damn, I just want one before I die and I'm "only" 43 -- I hope we can get one for some of the old timers around here who may not have as much time on their side!

So here's to the Vikings and here's to what was a fun season for me. And here's to all of you at PurplePride.org. I'm glad I found this place as its lonely being a Vikes fan in California. I know its easy to get depressed but hey, it could be worse, at least we weren't born Cleveland Browns fans!

midgensa
01-06-2013, 05:39 PM
Well its been a good season. I didn't feel helpless but this game probably cost Peterson the MVP award.
Just wanted to end the year on a couple of notes

1. Spielman needs to get his head out of hit butt or hit the door. We are pathetic on offense and we need a complete revamping of our Offense. Two WRs need to be brought in. 1 drafted, 1 signed. I am not talking about the Donny Avery type either. I am talking Jennings, Bowe etc. We cannot compete without being able to score. Too many games we expect the defense to play at a Hall of Fame level while the offense limps to the win. We need to have a team that the Offense can cover for the defense and vice versa.

2. Cutting Sage was a mistake, I said it then and I say it now. I never asked for Joe Webb and I knew he would never be an NFL QB. I hope those calling for Webb will never do so again. Good or bad Ponder is our QB for now. I have accepted that but since an upgrade won't be sought, we need to present a solid backup. Jason Campbell has my vote although, I think he will outplay Ponder.

3. As much as I like Allen, he has to go. He has lost a step and is not a dominant force. Ask yourself, when was the last time you saw him beat a guy. 99% of the sacks I see him get is from a play where the QB gets flushed and he falls into Allen's lap. The guy is just not dominant. His last true sack was from the fight he got his nose opened. Trade the guy and move on. Teams are playing him 1 on 1 and he is not winning..... on 2nd thought....he was playing with an injury this year so who knows.

4. Rogers has no fear of the Tampa 2... None... it's a defense that simply does not work against him. We need to play him differently. I'm not sure what, but we need to treat him like teams treated Vick and others and design a defense to use strictly when we play him. He loves the tampa and eats it up.

5. Good year but I am heart broken, another year without a title. Will I ever see one?


Just to let you know ... the MVP award is voted on after the regular season and BEFORE the postseason. This game would not affect it one way or the other.

I agree with the assessment on the Tampa 2 for sure. I am not a fan and I think QBs like Rodgers will continue to torch it.

Cutting Sage was a massive mistake. Not having a solid veteran backup bit us in our ass big time here. I think Sage would have been considerably better than Webb in this game. Though neither is a great option obviously. But it might have made the game more competitive.

I disagree on Allen. He is still a very good defensive end. I mean, if we can get a solid offer for him in a trade fine. But, I doubt we get more than a third round pick, and he is better than that for sure.

And we certainly need to figure out how to score points in bunches. You have to be able to do that in the NFL period. Not all the time, but at least some times you have to be able to drop 40 on people out of nowhere. I am not anti-Ponder, but we definitely need more weapons in the passing game whether at QB or WR to see where we are.

Hopefully, many of these things will be addressed in the offseason.

singersp
01-07-2013, 05:44 AM
Cutting Sage was a massive mistake. Not having a solid veteran backup bit us in our ass big time here. I think Sage would have been considerably better than Webb in this game. Though neither is a great option obviously. But it might have made the game more competitive.

So many people are saying that now, yet how many were saying it in the "Ponder questionable for game" thread or in the "Ponder Out Tonight VS Packers" thread before the game began?

The answer is zero.

They are only saying it in hindsight. If they truly believe Sage shouldn't have been cut then they need to lay that blame solely on Spielman, for he is the one that cut him.

purplehelmut
01-07-2013, 08:37 AM
The Vikings exceeded expectations this year and made the playoffs so I'm happy overall. We won 7 more games this year than last. We were in the playoffs therefore we deserved being in the playoffs, though we didn't necessarily play that way. I'm very disappointed, though not surprised, at the result Saturday. That being said, this team has so many flaws it will be difficult to get them fixed next year. Green Bay had a pretty easy go of it with Webb at QB- I think they played 11 in the box all night! We will need to get much better on defense to beat a Rogers led Packer team- we may hate to admit it but the guy is damn good, top three in the league.

NodakPaul
01-07-2013, 08:59 AM
So many people are saying that now, yet how many were saying it in the "Ponder questionable for game" thread or in the "Ponder Out Tonight VS Packers" thread before the game began?

The answer is zero.

They are only saying it in hindsight. If they truly believe Sage shouldn't have been cut then they need to lay that blame solely on Spielman, for he is the one that cut him.

I am OK with putting the blame for cutting Sage on Spielman. Or to be more accurate, I am OK with putting the blame for not having a better backup in place than Spielman. Whether or not Sage would have been the best way to go is questionable, although in hindsight it certainly would have been better than Webb.

I have been very vocal in my praise of Speilman for the excellent draft. It is only fair that I am critical of his mistakes in FA, and there have been many. I like the youth movement he is working towards, but I hope for a better Free Agency this year than last.

NodakPaul
01-07-2013, 09:18 AM
One thing that I think is apparent after the playoff loss...

People who did not like Spielman before will blame Spielman for not having a better option at backup QB.

People who did not like Ponder before will blame Ponder for not being able to play.

People who did not like Webb before will blame Webb for putting in the worst QB performance in postseason history.

And so on and so on... Don't worry PP.O faithful - whoever you have predetermined to hate and complain about, I am sure there is a way you can blame this loss on them too. :D

It sucks losing in the playoffs, even more so when it is to a divisional rival and it is an ass kicking. But don't let the negativity overshadow all of the positives from this season. We do still have a long way to go, but we made bigger strides than even I thought possible this season. If we can have another great draft like last year, and not crap the bed in Free Agency again like last year, then I think we will continue to build on our success this year.

Skol Vikings!

jmcdon00
01-07-2013, 10:29 AM
Sage is not a solid veteran backup. 12 career starts, hasn't thrown an nfl pass since 2008. No other team in the league picked him up.
Yes we need a solid backup(veteran or not), but there is no reason to believe Sage is that.

tastywaves
01-07-2013, 10:55 AM
I was against cutting Sage at the time, and I've never felt Webb was a legitimate QB option. Mostly because I thought we needed someone on the roster with a little NFL experience. However, I highly doubt Sage would have given us a reasonable chance of winning against GB. It would have taken a herculean effort by Ponder to win that game in GB. A broken Ponder was useless, so Webb has to be the guy you put in. He failed, time to move on. A backup needs to be able to come in and be effective even in a limited role or he has no place on the roster.

Going into next year, I would expect (hope) that Webb will no longer be on the roster, at least as a QB. We need to either bring in a vet to compete with Ponder or draft a guy that can compete for the starting position. Our QB play has to move up a few notches if we are going to maintain momentum from this season.

jargomcfargo
01-07-2013, 12:00 PM
One thing that I think is apparent after the playoff loss...

People who did not like Spielman before will blame Spielman for not having a better option at backup QB.

People who did not like Ponder before will blame Ponder for not being able to play.

People who did not like Webb before will blame Webb for putting in the worst QB performance in postseason history.

And so on and so on... Don't worry PP.O faithful - whoever you have predetermined to hate and complain about, I am sure there is a way you can blame this loss on them too. :D

It sucks losing in the playoffs, even more so when it is to a divisional rival and it is an ass kicking. But don't let the negativity overshadow all of the positives from this season. We do still have a long way to go, but we made bigger strides than even I thought possible this season. If we can have another great draft like last year, and not crap the bed in Free Agency again like last year, then I think we will continue to build on our success this year.

Skol Vikings!

I think I will blame you for the loss since you are about the only person I've seen who hasn't been blamed !
All these people being blamed have also conrtibuted in one way another to reaching the play offs. Perhaps not so much Webb, but this group definately over achieved.
It should be obvious by now that Webb is not going to develop into an NFL qb.
That acknowledgement by Frazier and Spielman should help define and upgrade the qb position.
Time to bring in a qb and finally have a legitimate qb competition.

We learned that this team is pretty darn good when it has a little better qb play.
I look forward with optomism.
This off season will be much better than last.

scottishvike
01-07-2013, 05:57 PM
One thing that I think is apparent after the playoff loss...

People who did not like Spielman before will blame Spielman for not having a better option at backup QB.

People who did not like Ponder before will blame Ponder for not being able to play.

People who did not like Webb before will blame Webb for putting in the worst QB performance in postseason history.

And so on and so on... Don't worry PP.O faithful - whoever you have predetermined to hate and complain about, I am sure there is a way you can blame this loss on them too. :D


I still blame Smoot.

Purple Floyd
01-07-2013, 08:27 PM
I still blame Smoot.
You ba$tard!



:rofl:

singersp
01-08-2013, 06:04 AM
One thing that I think is apparent after the playoff loss...

People who did not like Spielman before will blame Spielman for not having a better option at backup QB.

People who did not like Ponder before will blame Ponder for not being able to play.

People who did not like Webb before will blame Webb for putting in the worst QB performance in postseason history.

And so on and so on... Don't worry PP.O faithful - whoever you have predetermined to hate and complain about, I am sure there is a way you can blame this loss on them too. :D

It sucks losing in the playoffs, even more so when it is to a divisional rival and it is an ass kicking. But don't let the negativity overshadow all of the positives from this season. We do still have a long way to go, but we made bigger strides than even I thought possible this season. If we can have another great draft like last year, and not crap the bed in Free Agency again like last year, then I think we will continue to build on our success this year.

Skol Vikings!

I'm not a huge fan of Spielman yet, but I believe he made the right move choosing Webb over Sage.

I'm not a huge fan of Ponder either, but I certainly don't blame Ponder for not playing. I believe if he could have, he would have.

I liked Webb before, but I still blame him for a terrible QB performance. Many of those throws simply weren't timing issues, they were awful. His decisions to throw the ball away & the way he did it are unexplainable.

tastywaves
01-08-2013, 12:36 PM
ReFo: Vikings @ Packers (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/06/refo-vikings-packers-nfc-wild-card/)

Here's how ProFootball Focus graded out some of the players.

Negatives:
Webb: -5.4, -7.6 in passing
Charlie Johnson: -4.1
Fusco: -1.6

Positives:
Peterson: no grade, but said he had his second best performance of the year. Blamed poor blocking mostly on Johnson and Fusco as the reason for lack of production.
Fred Evans: +5.9
Harison Smith: +5.9


As a unit the Vikings’ defense was unable to contain the Packers as much as they needed to in order to keep this game close, but there were a few players that stood out. Fred Evans (+5.9) was the one defensive lineman who made plays in the backfield and around the line of scrimmage. On just 25 snaps he graded more than twice as well as any other DT for Minnesota, and late in the game he was still trying as hard as anybody. With 5:47 to go in the game, and things pretty much done, Evans still tore through T.J. Lang on a run play and torpedoed the run 5-yards deep in the backfield. The other standout from the game was rookie safety Harrison Smith (+5.9), who saved his finest performance of the year for the playoffs, even if it was ultimately in vain. Smith excelled in both coverage and against the run in this game, breaking up a pass in man-coverage on TE Jermichael Finley, but also shooting up to make tackles in the run game when needed. Smith can feel hard done by to miss out on the Pro Bowl in his first season, but if he can have days like this, and iron out the poor games, the Vikings have found a very good player.

As to our cornerback's play:


– Antoine Winfield and Chris Cook, two of Minnesota’s top three corners, allowed 100% of the balls thrown at them to be caught. They combined to allow 9 catches for 115 yards.

Traveling_Vike
01-09-2013, 07:02 PM
I like the "blame who you already hate" theory. I'll throw my own target into the ring here by blaming...

The Chicago Bears. I hate them, even more than the Packers, and if they hadn't sucked quite so bad in the second half of the season, we never would have been in this position. Better Bears, no Vikings playoffs. Simple as that. I think we'd all have been happier ending up 10-6 with no playoffs but a fantastic four game finish. Sure, many would complain, but not nearly as bitterly.

Purple Floyd
01-09-2013, 07:18 PM
ReFo: Vikings @ Packers (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/06/refo-vikings-packers-nfc-wild-card/)
As to our cornerback's play:


– Antoine Winfield and Chris Cook, two of Minnesota’s top three corners, allowed 100% of the balls thrown at them to be caught. They combined to allow 9 catches for 115 yards.


:
I believe they refer to that as "playing within the system":rofl:

marshallvike
01-09-2013, 07:50 PM
ReFo: Vikings @ Packers (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/06/refo-vikings-packers-nfc-wild-card/)

Here's how ProFootball Focus graded out some of the players.

Negatives:
Webb: -5.4, -7.6 in passing
Charlie Johnson: -4.1
Fusco: -1.6

Positives:
Peterson: no grade, but said he had his second best performance of the year. Blamed poor blocking mostly on Johnson and Fusco as the reason for lack of production.
Fred Evans: +5.9
Harison Smith: +5.9



As to our cornerback's play:

although I like Webb and feel bad for him, I put 100% of the blame for petersons average game on him. Not the Oline.

marshallvike
01-09-2013, 07:51 PM
I believe they refer to that as "playing within the system":rofl:

What a smartass. Pretty f'n funny though. Thumbs up.

singersp
01-10-2013, 05:54 AM
I believe they refer to that as "playing within the system":rofl:

Yep, the ole Tampa 2 defense. Give up the 10 yarders all day long, don't give up the big one.