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Purple Floyd
12-24-2012, 02:39 PM
To be honest I didn't think he was coming back this year at all and didn't know he was playing until I saw him on the field.

How instrumental was he in making the defense better yesterday? It seems having him back made the team look more like it was playing before he went down.

i_bleed_purple
12-24-2012, 04:59 PM
To be honest I didn't think he was coming back this year at all and didn't know he was playing until I saw him on the field.

How instrumental was he in making the defense better yesterday? It seems having him back made the team look more like it was playing before he went down.

It means we don't have to give a guy like Sherels or Burton significant playing time.

Without him we were looking like Jefferson, Robinson, Winfield, then Sherels or Burton as our depth. That won't cut it.

He missed a couple plays, but otherwise played pretty well, especially for his first game back.

kevoncox
12-25-2012, 06:07 PM
I'm not worried about Burton... Jefferson = Mr. completion... is my biggest worry.

NodakPaul
12-25-2012, 10:56 PM
I'm not worried about Burton... Jefferson = Mr. completion... is my biggest worry.

Agreed.

Marrdro
12-26-2012, 11:31 AM
I'm not worried about Burton... Jefferson = Mr. completion... is my biggest worry.

I actually think he plays pretty good for the most part. Definitely not starter material, but nice depth and isn't that what we were really looking for when we added him?

Besides, he really has only 2 years of game experience out of his 3 years. This cat is still learning the game. Next year (3 years experience) we should still see some improvement out of him.

Again, I liked the signing then and I still like the player.

tastywaves
12-26-2012, 11:48 AM
I actually think he plays pretty good for the most part. Definitely not starter material, but nice depth and isn't that what we were really looking for when we added him?

Besides, he really has only 2 years of game experience out of his 3 years. This cat is still learning the game. Next year (3 years experience) we should still see some improvement out of him.

Again, I liked the signing then and I still like the player.

Have to agree with you Marrdro. I though Jefferson has actually played pretty solid for what was expected. When he was filling in for Cook, he quite often lined up against their #1 receiver and did a fairly decent job I thought.

I have no problem with this guy being on the roster as a depth DB. Much better than many of the folks we have lined up over the last 5+ years. I think it was a good move by Spielman. I don't think Burton or Sherels would hold up near as well.

Marrdro
12-26-2012, 11:59 AM
Have to agree with you Marrdro. I though Jefferson has actually played pretty solid for what was expected. When he was filling in for Cook, he quite often lined up against their #1 receiver and did a fairly decent job I thought.

I have no problem with this guy being on the roster as a depth DB. Much better than many of the folks we have lined up over the last 5+ years. I think it was a good move by Spielman. I don't think Burton or Sherels would hold up near as well.

I'm not writing Sherels off. He has come in on spot duty and did pretty good as well, all things considered (doesn't get the reps with starters/doesn't get game time experience etc etc). I think he really gives us a nice depth on the roster behind our KOFF guy and as a DB along with his primary duty of Punt returner, which I think he is great at.

Burton, I just can't tell. Haven't seen enough of him so that probably means the coaches consider him expendable. Let him go and add a Marc Anthony in the 5th and see if he can stay healthy.

Watched that cat play once this year. Brings a S feel to the CB position (ala Whinny).

NodakPaul
12-26-2012, 02:02 PM
Have to agree with you Marrdro. I though Jefferson has actually played pretty solid for what was expected. When he was filling in for Cook, he quite often lined up against their #1 receiver and did a fairly decent job I thought.

I have no problem with this guy being on the roster as a depth DB. Much better than many of the folks we have lined up over the last 5+ years. I think it was a good move by Spielman. I don't think Burton or Sherels would hold up near as well.

I don't know... It seems like every time there was a completion for a first down it was to the WR that Jefferson was covering. And I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that Robinson was lined up #1 most of the time, with Jefferson playing #2 and Winny at nickle. Of course a little motion changes all of that when we are in a zone - but we played a decent amount of man this year too.

I think that opposing QBs know that Jefferson is the weakest link in the secondary and were targeting him.

Regardless, I am glad to have Cook back in the line up.

Marrdro
12-26-2012, 02:58 PM
I don't know... It seems like every time there was a completion for a first down it was to the WR that Jefferson was covering. And I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that Robinson was lined up #1 most of the time, with Jefferson playing #2 and Winny at nickle. Of course a little motion changes all of that when we are in a zone - but we played a decent amount of man this year too.

I think that opposing QBs know that Jefferson is the weakest link in the secondary and were targeting him.

Regardless, I am glad to have Cook back in the line up.

I'm with NP here. We don't use our best CB on their best WR very much. For the most part the guys cover whoever lines up across from them.

As to AJ being targeted as the weak link, I saw alot of Whinny guys catching balls for first downs as well with LB'rs and the outside guys (AJ and Rob) helping out on the tackling.

In the end, its a scheme thing. If the defense is going to give up yardage for a first by playing our DB's off, they will get the first which brings me back to my Warpig discussion. :)

kevoncox
12-26-2012, 04:45 PM
I don't know... It seems like every time there was a completion for a first down it was to the WR that Jefferson was covering. And I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that Robinson was lined up #1 most of the time, with Jefferson playing #2 and Winny at nickle. Of course a little motion changes all of that when we are in a zone - but we played a decent amount of man this year too.

I think that opposing QBs know that Jefferson is the weakest link in the secondary and were targeting him.

Regardless, I am glad to have Cook back in the line up.

Agreed.
I'm not sure what games the others are seeing but what I see is a guy that is slow in his transition from back peddle to attacking the ball. He gives up a lot of completions and if others would join the negative nancy's in the chat on game day...they would see his name called often.

Yes the guy is young, however, I believe he was brought in to transition into a starter role (I consider the nickle role as a starter in our defense although we move our starters around in coverage) Will his anticipation improve with reps? possible, however, teams don't bench good Cbs and trade them either. Fraiser likes having big Cbs and the combo of Cook ( 6'2) and Jefferson (6'1) has him drooling.

jargomcfargo
12-26-2012, 07:56 PM
Agreed.
I'm not sure what games the others are seeing but what I see is a guy that is slow in his transition from back peddle to attacking the ball. He gives up a lot of completions and if others would join the negative nancy's in the chat on game day...they would see his name called often.

Yes the guy is young, however, I believe he was brought in to transition into a starter role (I consider the nickle role as a starter in our defense although we move our starters around in coverage) Will his anticipation improve with reps? possible, however, teams don't bench good Cbs and trade them either. Fraiser likes having big Cbs and the combo of Cook ( 6'2) and Jefferson (6'1) has him drooling.
His coverage has been ok if he could get his head around and look for the ball. He has been a little better the last 2 games, but the Vikings could really use a good cornerback in next years draft.
BTW (to Marty), Robinson will never be a run stopper like Winfield. He does play off in pass coverage like Winfield though.

kevoncox
12-26-2012, 09:07 PM
His coverage has been ok if he could get his head around and look for the ball. He has been a little better the last 2 games, but the Vikings could really use a good cornerback in next years draft.
BTW (to Marty), Robinson will never be a run stopper like Winfield. He does play off in pass coverage like Winfield though.

Robinson is good against the run.

Marrdro
12-27-2012, 11:21 AM
Robinson is good against the run.
Gotta agree, cat gets under a blocker just like Whinny does. Give him as many reps as Whinny and you won't even know the difference other than Rob can cover.

Marrdro
12-27-2012, 11:23 AM
Agreed.
I'm not sure what games the others are seeing but what I see is a guy that is slow in his transition from back peddle to attacking the ball. He gives up a lot of completions and if others would join the negative nancy's in the chat on game day...they would see his name called often.

Yes the guy is young, however, I believe he was brought in to transition into a starter role (I consider the nickle role as a starter in our defense although we move our starters around in coverage) Will his anticipation improve with reps? possible, however, teams don't bench good Cbs and trade them either. Fraiser likes having big Cbs and the combo of Cook ( 6'2) and Jefferson (6'1) has him drooling.

Anyone can see issues with DB play, especially DB's that only have a bit less than 2 years of starts.

Does he have issue? Yes, but given time I think those will go away.

Marrdro
12-27-2012, 11:24 AM
His coverage has been ok if he could get his head around and look for the ball. He has been a little better the last 2 games, but the Vikings could really use a good cornerback in next years draft.
BTW (to Marty), Robinson will never be a run stopper like Winfield. He does play off in pass coverage like Winfield though.
Give him some more time old friend. He has shown that he can get in under the tackle and I absolutely love it when they bring him off the short slot to the QB (ala Whinny).

jargomcfargo
12-27-2012, 12:41 PM
Give him some more time old friend. He has shown that he can get in under the tackle and I absolutely love it when they bring him off the short slot to the QB (ala Whinny).
His speed could make him something special, so I hope you are right.

tastywaves
12-27-2012, 01:38 PM
I don't know... It seems like every time there was a completion for a first down it was to the WR that Jefferson was covering. And I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that Robinson was lined up #1 most of the time, with Jefferson playing #2 and Winny at nickle. Of course a little motion changes all of that when we are in a zone - but we played a decent amount of man this year too.

I think that opposing QBs know that Jefferson is the weakest link in the secondary and were targeting him.

Regardless, I am glad to have Cook back in the line up.

When I've watched Jefferson I've noticed he generally does have good coverage. Where I find him lacking is in making a play on the ball. I've seen plenty of depth DB's on this team that are woeful in both aspects. A lot of the completions made against Jefferson are simply good plays by the receiver. The good QB's with strong receivers will go after him even if he has coverage and he needs to start making more plays on the ball.

In terms of lining up against the #1. The Vikings do tend to leave the corners on one side and they pick up whoever lines up against them. So both Robinson and Jefferson have been seeing a fair amount of #1 WR coverage.

Robinson has been far from stellar as well, but he is holding his own for a rookie and seems to be a good pickup.

I maintain that Jefferson is a good depth DB that is holding up better than Burton or Sherels would in the same position. The coaches must agree :)

jargomcfargo
12-27-2012, 09:11 PM
When I've watched Jefferson I've noticed he generally does have good coverage. Where I find him lacking is in making a play on the ball. I've seen plenty of depth DB's on this team that are woeful in both aspects. A lot of the completions made against Jefferson are simply good plays by the receiver. The good QB's with strong receivers will go after him even if he has coverage and he needs to start making more plays on the ball.

In terms of lining up against the #1. The Vikings do tend to leave the corners on one side and they pick up whoever lines up against them. So both Robinson and Jefferson have been seeing a fair amount of #1 WR coverage.

Robinson has been far from stellar as well, but he is holding his own for a rookie and seems to be a good pickup.

I maintain that Jefferson is a good depth DB that is holding up better than Burton or Sherels would in the same position. The coaches must agree :)

He has better man coverage skills than Cook. If he can just get his head around to look for the ball, he could be a starter. He was shaky at first but is improving.
He will be a quality back up with potential to become a starter.

Purple Floyd
12-28-2012, 01:43 PM
Too bad we couldn't have gotten Jenoris Jenkins.