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Traveling_Vike
12-24-2012, 11:46 AM
Well, everyone but Marty, anyway.

Back in pre-season, we were all at best cautiously optimistic. The average prediction for wins was around 5 or 6. And now, here we are sitting at 9-6, with a decent shot at a Wildcard berth.

Let's look at those six losses, shall we?

Colts. Playoff team.
Seahawks. Playoff team, possible division winner.
Redskins. Likely division winner, possible wildcard if we both lose.
Bears. probable wildcard if we lose.
Packers. Division winner.
Bucs. Out of it now, but looked dangerous for a while.

Of them all, only the Bucs are no longer in the hunt. So, five out of six losses are to playoff teams or contenders going into the final week.

We also have some impressive wins over the Bears, 49ers and Texans.

Makes us look a whole lot better than anyone gave us credit for, eh?

All in all, it's the perfect setup for another major letdown. Let's hope and pray that we don't screw the pooch again.

RK.
12-24-2012, 03:09 PM
I think back to what Ziggy said early on this year. "We are going to surprise some people this year." He was right.

singersp
12-24-2012, 08:58 PM
Well, everyone but Marty, anyway.



Except Marrdro thought those wins would all come off of Ponder's arm & Gerhart's legs.

Instead we are winning with AD as our RB, who is averaging slightly more yards/carry than Ponder is averaging/pass.

Purple Floyd
12-24-2012, 09:12 PM
I think it is safe to say the difference in in the secondary. Last year they were god awful and this year they have been respectable which has led to us blowing fewer of the leads than we did last year plus no beginning the season with the liability I so correctly labeled McChunky.

digital420
12-25-2012, 05:27 AM
I went back and reread some old threads the other day thinking of making a thread like this. the differences between the last few years and this season are visible across the board. as much as people think slickrick should be ousted, i'll stick to what he's proven to be a rebuild that has the looks of a major upgrade.

i'll start with our Special Teams. wow, this has to be the biggest turn around this season. Walsh is flat out performing just as advertised with the accuracy of a vet. The tackling, focus on the ball, and lack of penelties really has been improved. I havn't gone back and looked this up, but I don't remember more then maybe 2,3 KR/PR's that really went 30+, yet while we had PH his avg was 35+. CK had a few misshaps, maybe even a funk, but he pulled out of it and again kept up his standard hang time, distance, and even accuracy.

SPT coach.. bigP.. KEEEEEEEEEEP HIM!! i like a guy who will try different things because he feels he can get better results then @ the 20. Great job with this phaze of the team!

D
started fast, plateau, rose again, plateaued again, and now kept the #1 seed in the afc to 0 TD's and 2 FG's.

the bend but don't break seemed to work! Smith has proven to be a GREAT pick. his attitude is there, his skills are there, now he just needs to learn to read plays a bit faster and better and this kid will anchor our S's for years to come. It was obvious that Cook's absence was detrimental to our CB's. but winny and crew stepped up, and with Cook back. it's not a shut down completly CB group but it's promising! Lb's we need some improvement, but that being said, Greenway is a stud, get another to play with him and we have a VERY fierce group. the DL is forming, imagin if we had a WaTT style DT to play with Kwill.. Rob, Grif, JA have had a #%@$% good season. they might not have all the stats, and there were some up/down games, but add to this rotation and you have DE position locked.

D Cord.. ohh yeah he's earned it! Keep him, help him build those last pieces and tear the O's apart!!


O
AP/TG for me are still the best 1/2 combo out there. nothing really needs said here

TE's started seeing JC finally make plays, and with Rudy being a Stud we have a real TE combo ahead of us, with the Rookie even stepping up for his future flyinsaucer replacement position.

WR we need improvement.. we hav an avg group of NFL wr's.. that means yes they have talent, yes they have the ability to catch.. PH was showing off until he got hurt, we onnly got to really see wright in the end, and childs still has yet to prove he can be that redzone, jump ball, sideline threat. FA and Draft will fill this need this year and watch things unfold!

OL thoughout the year there's been a lot of focus on the L/R T's. BigLoad and MK have really done well for the most part, some early penelties but those were cleaned up as of late. Piece by piece I think this OL is coming along, Sully really picked up his game, and maybe a high end G will give this line the pushing power it needs to open lanes, and protect the qb.

QB
lot of things to think on, but really. Ponder unless we pull of a major trade has earned the right to be the QB next year. is he improving? yes, not as fast as maybe he should, but it's showing. webb, maybe move him to WR, bring up MBT and maybe look for a vet? or a up n comer. i think though MBT will be the groomed one in a year or two that will shine for us.

OC rusty musty.. what to do.. what to do.. some good calls, some great calls, some #$%#$! stupid ones.. is there a learning curve? sure.. is this getting better? was last week. .show consistancy, keep being creative, and bring this team where it should be. next year could be your launching year, or sacking year.


HC.. i'm sold.. keep him around, keep giving this team a style and consistant effort and we have a winning franchise.

DiGiTaL

NordicNed
12-25-2012, 07:55 AM
Except Marrdro thought those wins would all come off of Ponder's arm & Gerhart's legs.

Instead we are winning with AD as our RB, who is averaging slightly more yards/carry than Ponder is averaging/pass. i'de like to add, also with the great kicking game of Walsh, our 6th round rookie pick. not to mention, some harped on how bad a pick it was..cough cough.....

Marrdro
12-25-2012, 09:01 AM
Well, everyone but Marty, anyway.

Back in pre-season, we were all at best cautiously optimistic. The average prediction for wins was around 5 or 6. And now, here we are sitting at 9-6, with a decent shot at a Wildcard berth.

Let's look at those six losses, shall we?

Colts. Playoff team.
Seahawks. Playoff team, possible division winner.
Redskins. Likely division winner, possible wildcard if we both lose.
Bears. probable wildcard if we lose.
Packers. Division winner.
Bucs. Out of it now, but looked dangerous for a while.

Of them all, only the Bucs are no longer in the hunt. So, five out of six losses are to playoff teams or contenders going into the final week.

We also have some impressive wins over the Bears, 49ers and Texans.

Makes us look a whole lot better than anyone gave us credit for, eh?

All in all, it's the perfect setup for another major letdown. Let's hope and pray that we don't screw the pooch again.
Excellent post my friend.

One thing that seems to be missing in all the discussions I've been having with fans lately, is that we sure have alot of 1, 2, and 3 year starters on the field with alot more of the same adding backup/depth.

Someone needs to start giving Ole Ricky Boy, the Scouts and of course the coaches some props for not only finding the right players for the scheme, but getting them in the house and coaching them up.

By the way, I'm always optimistic so consider my guess just that, a lucky guess. :)

Marrdro
12-25-2012, 09:07 AM
Except Marrdro thought those wins would all come off of Ponder's arm & Gerhart's legs.

Instead we are winning with AD as our RB, who is averaging slightly more yards/carry than Ponder is averaging/pass.
Ponder hater. Face it, you won't be happy until they have someone back there that throws it 60 yards every play.

Steve: Ponder only throws short ones.

Marrdro: That's because his only receiver is a slot receiver. By nature that equates to short one.

Steve: No, he should throw it deep to Harvin.

Marrdro: Steve, Harvin, like Welker (who he was tied with in receptions before he went down) was leading the league in receptions. Neither one is used that way.

Steve: No, he should throw it deep to Harvin.

Marrdro: No Steve, they should get him some competent receivers that can run a 4, 5, 6 and 7 route. Then he would throw it deeper.

Steve: No....No...No....Ponder sucks cause he doesnt' throw it deep.

On a side note......

Marrdro: Steve, remember when you were beeyyyyatching about the Chiller not running AD enough? Now you wanna beeyyyatch cause they are running him to much, and winning doing?

Steve: No, Ponder sucks cause he doesnt' throw it deep. :)

Marrdro
12-25-2012, 09:09 AM
I think it is safe to say the difference in in the secondary. Last year they were god awful and this year they have been respectable which has led to us blowing fewer of the leads than we did last year plus no beginning the season with the liability I so correctly labeled McChunky.
Have you noticed that the combo of Ballard, Griff, Rob and ole K-dubb are actually getting to the QB? Our DB's are still standing back there in their zones for the most part. If you doubt me, go back, look at Smitty's last INT. He was just standing there 10 yards past the receiver.

Has the Backend looked better this year? Hell yes, but our front end has been getting it done at times as well.

Marrdro
12-25-2012, 09:10 AM
i'de like to add, also with the great kicking game of Walsh, our 6th round rookie pick. not to mention, some harped on how bad a pick it was..cough cough.....
I remember who that was. Actually, the Many who's Ned. One of which is so embarraaaassssed he was wrong about his beloved PUKER Kicker he doesn't come around much I hear.

Marrdro
12-25-2012, 09:11 AM
I went back and reread some old threads the other day thinking of making a thread like this. the differences between the last few years and this season are visible across the board. as much as people think slickrick should be ousted, i'll stick to what he's proven to be a rebuild that has the looks of a major upgrade.

i'll start with our Special Teams. wow, this has to be the biggest turn around this season. Walsh is flat out performing just as advertised with the accuracy of a vet. The tackling, focus on the ball, and lack of penelties really has been improved. I havn't gone back and looked this up, but I don't remember more then maybe 2,3 KR/PR's that really went 30+, yet while we had PH his avg was 35+. CK had a few misshaps, maybe even a funk, but he pulled out of it and again kept up his standard hang time, distance, and even accuracy.

SPT coach.. bigP.. KEEEEEEEEEEP HIM!! i like a guy who will try different things because he feels he can get better results then @ the 20. Great job with this phaze of the team!

D
started fast, plateau, rose again, plateaued again, and now kept the #1 seed in the afc to 0 TD's and 2 FG's.

the bend but don't break seemed to work! Smith has proven to be a GREAT pick. his attitude is there, his skills are there, now he just needs to learn to read plays a bit faster and better and this kid will anchor our S's for years to come. It was obvious that Cook's absence was detrimental to our CB's. but winny and crew stepped up, and with Cook back. it's not a shut down completly CB group but it's promising! Lb's we need some improvement, but that being said, Greenway is a stud, get another to play with him and we have a VERY fierce group. the DL is forming, imagin if we had a WaTT style DT to play with Kwill.. Rob, Grif, JA have had a #%@$% good season. they might not have all the stats, and there were some up/down games, but add to this rotation and you have DE position locked.

D Cord.. ohh yeah he's earned it! Keep him, help him build those last pieces and tear the O's apart!!


O
AP/TG for me are still the best 1/2 combo out there. nothing really needs said here

TE's started seeing JC finally make plays, and with Rudy being a Stud we have a real TE combo ahead of us, with the Rookie even stepping up for his future flyinsaucer replacement position.

WR we need improvement.. we hav an avg group of NFL wr's.. that means yes they have talent, yes they have the ability to catch.. PH was showing off until he got hurt, we onnly got to really see wright in the end, and childs still has yet to prove he can be that redzone, jump ball, sideline threat. FA and Draft will fill this need this year and watch things unfold!

OL thoughout the year there's been a lot of focus on the L/R T's. BigLoad and MK have really done well for the most part, some early penelties but those were cleaned up as of late. Piece by piece I think this OL is coming along, Sully really picked up his game, and maybe a high end G will give this line the pushing power it needs to open lanes, and protect the qb.

QB
lot of things to think on, but really. Ponder unless we pull of a major trade has earned the right to be the QB next year. is he improving? yes, not as fast as maybe he should, but it's showing. webb, maybe move him to WR, bring up MBT and maybe look for a vet? or a up n comer. i think though MBT will be the groomed one in a year or two that will shine for us.

OC rusty musty.. what to do.. what to do.. some good calls, some great calls, some #$%#$! stupid ones.. is there a learning curve? sure.. is this getting better? was last week. .show consistancy, keep being creative, and bring this team where it should be. next year could be your launching year, or sacking year.


HC.. i'm sold.. keep him around, keep giving this team a style and consistant effort and we have a winning franchise.

DiGiTaL
Top shelf my friend, as always, top shelf indeed.

Caine
12-25-2012, 11:31 AM
Ponder hater. Face it, you won't be happy until they have someone back there that throws it 60 yards every play.

Steve: Ponder only throws short ones.

Marrdro: That's because his only receiver is a slot receiver. By nature that equates to short one.

Steve: No, he should throw it deep to Harvin.

Marrdro: Steve, Harvin, like Welker (who he was tied with in receptions before he went down) was leading the league in receptions. Neither one is used that way.

Steve: No, he should throw it deep to Harvin.

Marrdro: No Steve, they should get him some competent receivers that can run a 4, 5, 6 and 7 route. Then he would throw it deeper.

Steve: No....No...No....Ponder sucks cause he doesnt' throw it deep.

On a side note......

Marrdro: Steve, remember when you were beeyyyyatching about the Chiller not running AD enough? Now you wanna beeyyyatch cause they are running him to much, and winning doing?

Steve: No, Ponder sucks cause he doesnt' throw it deep. :)

OUCH. Marrdro steals one from Caine's playbook and puts together a nice "Singer Zinger"...

From where I sit....

I still think that AD carries this entire team too much. I do NOT like our HC or OC at all, but our record means they will be around again next season.

If they want to keep their jobs, they need to do what I said LAST season and GET SOME RECEIVERS!!!!!! Marrdro is right (yes...I threw up a little bit as I typed that), Harvin is a slot guy, and we have no true deep weapons. Without them, Ponder is screwed.

That said, Ponder has played some HORRIBLE games this season. he can't do that and stay in the NFL. The difference between him and Jackson, however, is that he IS a factor, not an afterthought, in these games.

The "D" could be better, but they're strong enough to support a good Offense....too bad we don't have one.

Caine

Braddock
12-25-2012, 05:22 PM
The "D" could be better, but they're strong enough to support a good Offense....too bad we don't have one.

Caine

Did you really just say that right after Sunday's game against Houston? Granted, they don't play that complete every game, but no defense does. It's a part of the game. To say our D is "strong enough to support a good Offense", when our D has been supporting a weak offense all season for a potential 10-6, playoff team seems misinformed to me.

Merry Christmas

kevoncox
12-25-2012, 06:05 PM
i thought this season would be an easy season due to an easy schedule. I was right. However, I doubted that we would win this many games because we have thrown so many away to bad teams. I was right again as we gifted a couple to some really average teams there. Colts and TB wins come to mind.

Purple Floyd
12-25-2012, 08:33 PM
Have you noticed that the combo of Ballard, Griff, Rob and ole K-dubb are actually getting to the QB? Our DB's are still standing back there in their zones for the most part. If you doubt me, go back, look at Smitty's last INT. He was just standing there 10 yards past the receiver.

Has the Backend looked better this year? Hell yes, but our front end has been getting it done at times as well.

They are playing much like they did last year when you were pining for the warpig ans stating they were the only problem on the defense. The LB's are about the same. The secondary has gotten better and Smith is a big reason. I would have liked to have Jenoris jenkins but certainly like what we got in Smith too so that is a wash. That being said we still need to build up the secondary to be able to compete with the Packers and the other top passing teams in the league. Nice start though.

tastywaves
12-26-2012, 11:35 AM
They are playing much like they did last year when you were pining for the warpig ans stating they were the only problem on the defense. The LB's are about the same. The secondary has gotten better and Smith is a big reason. I would have liked to have Jenoris jenkins but certainly like what we got in Smith too so that is a wash. That being said we still need to build up the secondary to be able to compete with the Packers and the other top passing teams in the league. Nice start though.


Come on now Floyd. You know that the success or failure of the passing defense is all predicated on the defensive line. The secondary is merely a benefactor one way or the other. We could pick any random group of players to suit up in our secondary and expect the same results.

Sorry Marrdro, but you do tend to downplay the role of the secondary. Even though I know you know they all need to do their role to have success. Good coverage tends to lead to more pressure, good pressure tends to lead to better pass coverage......

I think Harrison is a huge part of the difference we are seeing in our pass defense. Secondary play and more specifically safety play has been less than adequate for us over the last number of years.

Marrdro
12-26-2012, 12:21 PM
They are playing much like they did last year when you were pining for the warpig ans stating they were the only problem on the defense. The LB's are about the same. The secondary has gotten better and Smith is a big reason. I would have liked to have Jenoris jenkins but certainly like what we got in Smith too so that is a wash. That being said we still need to build up the secondary to be able to compete with the Packers and the other top passing teams in the league. Nice start though.

All I have to say is......13th......

2012 NFL Team Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/position/defense)

I love the rotation and what they've been doing in the passing game, but still am convinced that if we add a kid like

Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1801107/star-lotulelei)

or

Johnathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1785812/johnathan-hankins)

or

Jesse Williams, DT, Alabama, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1824786/jesse-williams)

and all of our pass defense woes will go away completely and we won't suck so bad on run defense in our base.

Watched a couple of them play this year. Both of them can play the 0 all the way out to the 5 technique. Absolutely amazing.

Marrdro
12-26-2012, 12:25 PM
Come on now Floyd. You know that the success or failure of the passing defense is all predicated on the defensive line. The secondary is merely a benefactor one way or the other. We could pick any random group of players to suit up in our secondary and expect the same results.

Sorry Marrdro, but you do tend to downplay the role of the secondary. Even though I know you know they all need to do their role to have success. Good coverage tends to lead to more pressure, good pressure tends to lead to better pass coverage......

I think Harrison is a huge part of the difference we are seeing in our pass defense. Secondary play and more specifically safety play has been less than adequate for us over the last number of years.

I know it sounds like I down play it, but I really don't. I understand the importance of it, but I also know that when teams are consistently in 2nd and shorts, 3rd and shorts because we are getting gouged via the run that our DB's are going to get ate up just like I know that when yo allow a QB as much time as we've given guys like Rodgers this year, they are going to get ate up as well.

Long story short, if we had all the "Coverage Sacks" that we should have had this year, JA and company would have huge numbers again. Instead we've consistently allowed QB's to run around in the backfield for what seems like an eternity (they threw a 9 second clock on Rodgers vs us this year) while our run defense also goes south.

Fix the warpig issue and that stuff goes away. If you don't we will still be a top 10 defense, but just barely.

Caine
12-26-2012, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Caine
The "D" could be better, but they're strong enough to support a good Offense....too bad we don't have one.

CaineDid you really just say that right after Sunday's game against Houston? Granted, they don't play that complete every game, but no defense does. It's a part of the game. To say our D is "strong enough to support a good Offense", when our D has been supporting a weak offense all season for a potential 10-6, playoff team seems misinformed to me.

Merry Christmas

Yep...I said it, and I meant exactly what I said.

The "D" has been good. If we had a "Good" Offense, we'd be in GREAT shape.

Too bad we DON'T have a good Offense. (23rd overall, 32nd in passing, 3rd in Rushing)

What part of that seems "misinformed"?

Caine

digital420
12-26-2012, 05:34 PM
The real point here is simply, everyone expected the Vikings to have improvement, that was it. There were lol's when it was stated we might have a winning season in '12. Of course the rebuild isn't finished. we knew that coming into the season, it'll be '14 before this team has completed it's tooling and puts a finished product on the field for the next 5-10 years. that is if we keep Frazier as the HC, and slickRick as GM.

what we got this year was a team that has passed expectations. no matter if we win/loose vs GB.. we have a winning record, AND a viable shot @ the playoffs. Dad said we'd surprise people this year, stating that players would come out extra hungry due to the 3 win season. He noted several times as does Frazier that we had more participation in off season things then we've prolly seen since it was made optional to the stars..

as a TEAM, i ahve to give credit from top to bottom. they've improved past my expectations, do they still need work.. HELL YEAH" but.. we can identify that work now as pieces.. and not.. "The Secondary" or.. the "O-line" and it seems the coaches we have.. really can coach.

i'm excited for the last game because it has MEANING!! i'm watching other teams because it has meaning to us.. in making the playoffs, as well as who the road holds to the SB. just for me to have that.. is a vast improvement over the last 3 seasons, and yes they are better then I expected.

DiGiTaL

Purple Floyd
12-26-2012, 06:50 PM
All I have to say is......13th......

2012 NFL Team Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/position/defense)

I love the rotation and what they've been doing in the passing game, but still am convinced that if we add a kid like

Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1801107/star-lotulelei)

or

Johnathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1785812/johnathan-hankins)

or

Jesse Williams, DT, Alabama, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1824786/jesse-williams)

and all of our pass defense woes will go away completely and we won't suck so bad on run defense in our base.

Watched a couple of them play this year. Both of them can play the 0 all the way out to the 5 technique. Absolutely amazing.

If what you say is true, then when we had Pat, Kevin, Ray and Jared our secondary should have had no issues then and that is far from the case. You could make the same case for Detroit with their great linemen and terrible secondary.

No doubt adding an elite DT would help the defense but by the same token adding an elite CB would do as much or more.

singersp
12-26-2012, 09:41 PM
Ponder hater. Face it, you won't be happy until they have someone back there that throws it 60 yards every play.

Steve: Ponder only throws short ones.

Marrdro: That's because his only receiver is a slot receiver. By nature that equates to short one.

Steve: No, he should throw it deep to Harvin.

Marrdro: Steve, Harvin, like Welker (who he was tied with in receptions before he went down) was leading the league in receptions. Neither one is used that way.

Steve: No, he should throw it deep to Harvin.

Marrdro: No Steve, they should get him some competent receivers that can run a 4, 5, 6 and 7 route. Then he would throw it deeper.

Steve: No....No...No....Ponder sucks cause he doesnt' throw it deep.

On a side note......

Marrdro: Steve, remember when you were beeyyyyatching about the Chiller not running AD enough? Now you wanna beeyyyatch cause they are running him to much, and winning doing?

Steve: No, Ponder sucks cause he doesnt' throw it deep. :)


OUCH. Marrdro steals one from Caine's playbook and puts together a nice "Singer Zinger"....

Caine

Apparently then, Caineís playbook has a chapter I missed called ďEmbellishmentĒ which is printed on rubber sheets so it can be stretched & twisted easily to take what was initial said & make it something totally different. It must have replaced the chapter called ďBail OutĒ which hasnít been talked about in a couple of years now.

Had I ever said we need to throw it 60 yards all the time or throw it deep all the time to Harvin there might have been a zing there, but since I didnít, there wasnít.

First off, I donít hate Ponder. Iíd like to see him succeed but at this point, I donít see it happening. I was doubtful at the beginning based on what I have read about him. Saw some things in him I really liked early on in 2011, but he never really developed a lot since then & actually digressed with his mechanics well into his 2nd year.

2ndly Perhaps Marrdro needs to go find this mystery quote where I allegedly claimed Childress wasnít handing off to AD enough.

What I said to Marrdro from before the draft & still say we need is a deep threat WR to stretch the field As I recall Caine too was lobbying for a true deep threat WR in the draft. Since he now thinks Marrdroís little twist on that need seems funny & a zing on someone still realizing that need, apparently heís forgotten it.

This is closer to the fact than the kaka del Rio Marrdroís trying to sell.

Steve: We need to get a deep threat WR who can stretch the field either in FA or the draft & keep defenses honest. Jenkins & Aromashodu just donít fit that mold.

Marrdro: Steve, we donít need a deep threat WR, we need a warpig. We are a short passing team. We are fine with Harvin, Jenkins & Shodu. Did you see the way Shodu stepped up at the end of last season? I think heíll be fine.

Steve: Well here we are well into the season & the need for a deep threat WR, someone that can stretch the field. Ponder is only averaging 5 yards thru the air on his passes. We need to be able to throw it deeper.

Marrdro: We are a WCO offense Steve we donít need to throw it 60 yards on every play. Ponder is accurate throwing bubble passes & 5 yard dumps, so that is what we need to continue to do.

Steve: Marty, having a deep threat receiver doesnít mean you need to throw deep passes on every play. You need to be able to throw deep once in awhile & have a receiver & a QB capable of doing it not only to keep defenses honest, but to take a defender or two with him & out of the box. You also need to throw passes that are 10 to 20 yards out as well. Ponderís passes are from behind the LOS to 5 yards out.

Marrdro: We are completing passes 5 yards out, we donít need to be throwing 60 yards down field every play.

Steve: I never said we need to throw passes 60 yards down field on every down. We need to be able to throw it farther or deeper down field beyond 5 yards. 10-15 yards is deeper than 5 Marty, 15-20 yards is deeper than 5 Marty.

Marty: Steve, we are a WCO team, we canít throw it to Harvin 60 yards down field on every play. We need to throw it 5 yards because thatís Ponderís comfort zone.

Steve: But we are losing games now Marty. We canít expect AD to carry this team by himself every game. We canít continue to face 8-9 men in the box & then try to complete passes to our receivers in that same box all day long. We are getting two predictable. Chances are high we are either handing the ball off to AD or throwing to a ball to a receiver within the box. Defenses have caught on to that and are shutting Ponder down.

Marty: But who is Ponder going to throw to? Our receivers canít get open.

Steve: Thatís bullshit. Receivers are open further down field & Ponder hasnít been throwing to them. If you listen to people who actually go to the games that can see the whole field & see receivers that are open, youíd know that. There was one game where the coverage was pretty good and the announcers stated so, but that doesnít account for all the other games.

Did you read the article I posted? Harvin says that game tape shows that receivers are indeed open, but the plays arenít being made.

Marty: Harvin is talking out of his jiggly butt. I have a wide screen TV so now I can see more of the field than I previously could. So in the portion of the field that I can see, I constantly have 1 eye on all the OL to see whoís filling which gap & if the guards are pulling & with the other trained eye I canít see the other receivers getting open. Iím doing all this & still managing to jot down my spreadsheet notes.

Steve: Youíre only seeing a portion of the field on TV Marrdro. Youíre not seeing the entire playing field on every play, only part of it.

Marrdro: Well if thatís true, then Musgrove must not be calling passes to those receivers. Fire Musgrove! Heís not calling plays to utilize Ponderís strengths.

Steve: He is doing just that Marrdro. Heís having Ponder mostly hand off to AD & throwing balls at the LOS or 5 yards beyond. Those are his strengths.

Have you been watching Ponder throw down field Marrdro? Beyond 10 yards he can throw some accurate balls, but many times theyíre either far short of the target, way off to the left or right of the target or if caught, wouldnít have been inbounds. Musgrave doesnít want to call those passes because Ponder has trouble making those throws.

Marrdro: Steve, Ponder anticipates where the receivers are supposed to be and puts the ball right where itís supposed to be. If itís way off to the left or right, the stupid receiver didnít make his cut & isnít running his route correctly. I blame the receiver. it was a beautiful pass by Ponder.

If itís short of the receiver, then Ponder anticipated the coverage & threw way short of him intentionally. The stupid receiver was supposed to break off his route & come back for the ball. The ball was put right where it was supposed to be. I blame the receiver.

Steve: What about that pass to AD down the sidelines. AD was wide open, had his man beat & Ponder couldnít hit him in stride. Instead he nailed that Puker player in the back.

Marrdro: He hit a player deep down field didnít he? Now your beeyatching about that.

Steve: Ponder has looked terrible for several games now. I think itís time for a new QB. He just canít throw beyond 10 yards with any consistent accuracy. Heís throwing 5 yard passes, because those are the only kinds of passes he can throw with consistent accuracy. I hope he proves me wrong in the final games, but I donít think he will.

Ponder hater! You canít expect him to throw 60 yards to Harvin every time! He just needs more time! He needs better receivers!

Steve: Marty, Iíve been telling you we need better receivers since before FA. You werenít buying it, thought we were fine & thought the much bigger need was a warpig.

Marty: We need a new OC & Ponder will be fine he just needs more starts!

Now I will take a play right out of Caineís playbookÖ.

Steve: Heís had 20 starts already! (scratch that & make it 25 starts already) How many starts does he need?

Tad7
12-26-2012, 09:56 PM
My prediction before the season was in the 6-10 to 7-9 area. I found a way in which they could win 9 games but didn't really believe it. Pleasantly surprised!

NordicNed
12-27-2012, 09:11 AM
i can't remember my exact prediction, but i believe it was in the 8-8 or 7-9 range. So yes, I'm another fan who has been pleasently surprised, not to mention, some of our wins this year blew my mind. our wins over the 49'ers and texans, both i would have beat where going to be L's for us and at the beggining of the season, I would have bet we split with the Lions, not sweep them. This week, I'm all Vikings!!!!!! If we can control the game, like we did last week, I see no reason that we can't take the pack to the wood shed and leave them there, on our way to the playoffs......

My prediction Vikings 28 Pack 25 yes, we win with a 50 plus yard field goal by Walsh...hahahahahahha

purplehelmut
12-27-2012, 10:24 AM
I'm very surprised (and happy) at how the Vikings have done this season. I was one of the 6-10 group and would have been ok with that after 3-13. I simply did not think Peterson was going to come back like he did. It usually takes a full season for a back to regain form after an injuury like that but AD was pretty much full speed after a game or two. MVP for sure- we don't do anything without him. Defense, particularly the secondary, has improved enough to win games on its own (see Houston). I've been down on Ponder but even he showed a little Sunday- a couple of his throws were first class. Another thing I really like about this team is the don't quit attitude- they keep coming. Guarded optimism for this coming Sunday- but we should have kicked GB's butt last time. I expect a helluva game.

Marrdro
12-27-2012, 11:07 AM
Apparently then, Caineís playbook has a chapter I missed called ďEmbellishmentĒ which is printed on rubber sheets so it can be stretched & twisted easily to take what was initial said & make it something totally different. It must have replaced the chapter called ďBail OutĒ which hasnít been talked about in a couple of years now.

Had I ever said we need to throw it 60 yards all the time or throw it deep all the time to Harvin there might have been a zing there, but since I didnít, there wasnít.

First off, I donít hate Ponder. Iíd like to see him succeed but at this point, I donít see it happening. I was doubtful at the beginning based on what I have read about him. Saw some things in him I really liked early on in 2011, but he never really developed a lot since then & actually digressed with his mechanics well into his 2nd year.

2ndly Perhaps Marrdro needs to go find this mystery quote where I allegedly claimed Childress wasnít handing off to AD enough.

What I said to Marrdro from before the draft & still say we need is a deep threat WR to stretch the field As I recall Caine too was lobbying for a true deep threat WR in the draft. Since he now thinks Marrdroís little twist on that need seems funny & a zing on someone still realizing that need, apparently heís forgotten it.

This is closer to the fact than the kaka del Rio Marrdroís trying to sell.

Steve: We need to get a deep threat WR who can stretch the field either in FA or the draft & keep defenses honest. Jenkins & Aromashodu just donít fit that mold.

Marrdro: Steve, we donít need a deep threat WR, we need a warpig. We are a short passing team. We are fine with Harvin, Jenkins & Shodu. Did you see the way Shodu stepped up at the end of last season? I think heíll be fine.

Steve: Well here we are well into the season & the need for a deep threat WR, someone that can stretch the field. Ponder is only averaging 5 yards thru the air on his passes. We need to be able to throw it deeper.

Marrdro: We are a WCO offense Steve we donít need to throw it 60 yards on every play. Ponder is accurate throwing bubble passes & 5 yard dumps, so that is what we need to continue to do.

Steve: Marty, having a deep threat receiver doesnít mean you need to throw deep passes on every play. You need to be able to throw deep once in awhile & have a receiver & a QB capable of doing it not only to keep defenses honest, but to take a defender or two with him & out of the box. You also need to throw passes that are 10 to 20 yards out as well. Ponderís passes are from behind the LOS to 5 yards out.

Marrdro: We are completing passes 5 yards out, we donít need to be throwing 60 yards down field every play.

Steve: I never said we need to throw passes 60 yards down field on every down. We need to be able to throw it farther or deeper down field beyond 5 yards. 10-15 yards is deeper than 5 Marty, 15-20 yards is deeper than 5 Marty.

Marty: Steve, we are a WCO team, we canít throw it to Harvin 60 yards down field on every play. We need to throw it 5 yards because thatís Ponderís comfort zone.

Steve: But we are losing games now Marty. We canít expect AD to carry this team by himself every game. We canít continue to face 8-9 men in the box & then try to complete passes to our receivers in that same box all day long. We are getting two predictable. Chances are high we are either handing the ball off to AD or throwing to a ball to a receiver within the box. Defenses have caught on to that and are shutting Ponder down.

Marty: But who is Ponder going to throw to? Our receivers canít get open.

Steve: Thatís bullshit. Receivers are open further down field & Ponder hasnít been throwing to them. If you listen to people who actually go to the games that can see the whole field & see receivers that are open, youíd know that. There was one game where the coverage was pretty good and the announcers stated so, but that doesnít account for all the other games.

Did you read the article I posted? Harvin says that game tape shows that receivers are indeed open, but the plays arenít being made.

Marty: Harvin is talking out of his jiggly butt. I have a wide screen TV so now I can see more of the field than I previously could. So in the portion of the field that I can see, I constantly have 1 eye on all the OL to see whoís filling which gap & if the guards are pulling & with the other trained eye I canít see the other receivers getting open. Iím doing all this & still managing to jot down my spreadsheet notes.

Steve: Youíre only seeing a portion of the field on TV Marrdro. Youíre not seeing the entire playing field on every play, only part of it.

Marrdro: Well if thatís true, then Musgrove must not be calling passes to those receivers. Fire Musgrove! Heís not calling plays to utilize Ponderís strengths.

Steve: He is doing just that Marrdro. Heís having Ponder mostly hand off to AD & throwing balls at the LOS or 5 yards beyond. Those are his strengths.

Have you been watching Ponder throw down field Marrdro? Beyond 10 yards he can throw some accurate balls, but many times theyíre either far short of the target, way off to the left or right of the target or if caught, wouldnít have been inbounds. Musgrave doesnít want to call those passes because Ponder has trouble making those throws.

Marrdro: Steve, Ponder anticipates where the receivers are supposed to be and puts the ball right where itís supposed to be. If itís way off to the left or right, the stupid receiver didnít make his cut & isnít running his route correctly. I blame the receiver. it was a beautiful pass by Ponder.

If itís short of the receiver, then Ponder anticipated the coverage & threw way short of him intentionally. The stupid receiver was supposed to break off his route & come back for the ball. The ball was put right where it was supposed to be. I blame the receiver.

Steve: What about that pass to AD down the sidelines. AD was wide open, had his man beat & Ponder couldnít hit him in stride. Instead he nailed that Puker player in the back.

Marrdro: He hit a player deep down field didnít he? Now your beeyatching about that.

Steve: Ponder has looked terrible for several games now. I think itís time for a new QB. He just canít throw beyond 10 yards with any consistent accuracy. Heís throwing 5 yard passes, because those are the only kinds of passes he can throw with consistent accuracy. I hope he proves me wrong in the final games, but I donít think he will.

Ponder hater! You canít expect him to throw 60 yards to Harvin every time! He just needs more time! He needs better receivers!

Steve: Marty, Iíve been telling you we need better receivers since before FA. You werenít buying it, thought we were fine & thought the much bigger need was a warpig.

Marty: We need a new OC & Ponder will be fine he just needs more starts!

Now I will take a play right out of Caineís playbookÖ.

Steve: Heís had 20 starts already! (scratch that & make it 25 starts already) How many starts does he need?

You lost we were I said "We don't need a WR we need a Warpig". I have always said that we needed WR's, my point was I would get a warpig first.

Marrdro
12-27-2012, 11:09 AM
If what you say is true, then when we had Pat, Kevin, Ray and Jared our secondary should have had no issues then and that is far from the case. You could make the same case for Detroit with their great linemen and terrible secondary.

No doubt adding an elite DT would help the defense but by the same token adding an elite CB would do as much or more.

How many more DB's do we need to keep adding then? Maybe the guys we are adding just aren't elite enough cause we sure seem to add a glut of them every year and the problem is still there.

How about we try a warpig, just once?

singersp
12-28-2012, 06:10 AM
You lost we were I said "We don't need a WR we need a Warpig". I have always said that we needed WR's, my point was I would get a warpig first.

You had "one of your posts" when I & others suggested signing a top WR in FA. WR's were one of the last needs on your list.

MaxVike
12-28-2012, 10:19 AM
i thought this season would be an easy season due to an easy schedule. I was right. However, I doubted that we would win this many games because we have thrown so many away to bad teams. I was right again as we gifted a couple to some really average teams there. Colts and TB wins come to mind.

Have you met Carly Simon?

Purple Floyd
12-28-2012, 11:08 AM
How many more DB's do we need to keep adding then? Maybe the guys we are adding just aren't elite enough cause we sure seem to add a glut of them every year and the problem is still there.

How about we try a warpig, just once?

Yes, we keep adding secondary players that end up off the roster in a few years because we don't draft the right guys. Smith is a good start towards fixing that. If we add a warpig and they suck as bad as the secondary talent had been onver the past 7 years you will see the same result.

We already had the warpig and as noted, the secondary still looked bad. Why not try fixing that and see if the DL looks better.