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marshallvike
10-14-2012, 06:21 PM
Pretty frustrating

NodakPaul
10-14-2012, 06:25 PM
We really need Simpson to be healthy to open up the field.
Penalties and turnovers cost us.
Take the handcuffs off from Ponder. I love his drives at the end of games.
Frustrated, but it is football.

The most frustrating part is going to be all of the people online who are going to come in here with the sky is falling mentality.

We are 4-2 people, not 2-4. Keep that in mind. Just saying. Let's take care of Atlanta at home.

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 06:31 PM
We had a rough time on D today. It looked like we were keeping our LBs up to keep RG in check and it cost us with a lot of passes in the middle of the field. Christian had a few passes that were way off target, but overall he has looked good. He did not give up. AD was a beast. Harvin was his usual self. Hated seeing the three 1st qtr drives stall in the red zone and take field goals. 2nd and 3rd quarters killed us. We never seemed to take control of this game.
I thought RG was way too cocky today. I really, really wanted to see someone clean his clock, but no one seemed to get a shot at it.

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 06:31 PM
Next game is Arizona at home. But yes, they sky is falling. This coaching staff is terrible. 73 yard QB Draw for a TD? Does no one watch film? Does no one tell Adrian Peterson to quit with the jump cuts and actually gain yards on a run? Vanilla schedule and the only QBs with half a brain shred us. Oh, not to mention Adrian Peterson still doesn't know how to pass protect. If it wasn't for him there would have been no Ponder fumble. Can we please trade him so we aren't so one dimensional anymore?

LIVike
10-14-2012, 06:32 PM
Our redzone offense is garbage. Yes we have a 100% scoring rate but its mainly fgs. If we got two of the tds that we should have had its a different ball game.

Penalties. Its not surprise that in the two losses they commit alot of penalties.

Defense cant seem to cover the middle. The skins probably ran the same cross over the middle 8 or 9 times with success.

Walsh is going to set the single season record for field goals made plain and simple.

For the second and third quarter the vikes played like the vikes from last year, just frustrating pathetic football. Ill give them credit in the first and fourth they moved the ball real well until we hit the redzone.

Just a frustrating game to watch and I hate RGIII

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 06:37 PM
We really need Simpson to be healthy to open up the field.
Penalties and turnovers cost us.
Take the handcuffs off from Ponder. I love his drives at the end of games.
Frustrated, but it is football.

The most frustrating part is going to be all of the people online who are going to come in here with the sky is falling mentality.

We are 4-2 people, not 2-4. Keep that in mind. Just saying. Let's take care of Atlanta at home.

It was just an off game for us. I did like seeing Ponder throwing deeper passes early in the game. About as deep as our rec corps will allow.

Ranger
10-14-2012, 06:37 PM
Next game is Arizona at home. But yes, they sky is falling. This coaching staff is terrible. 73 yard QB Draw for a TD? Does no one watch film? Does no one tell Adrian Peterson to quit with the jump cuts and actually gain yards on a run? Vanilla schedule and the only QBs with half a brain shred us. Oh, not to mention Adrian Peterson still doesn't know how to pass protect. If it wasn't for him there would have been no Ponder fumble. Can we please trade him so we aren't so one dimensional anymore?

Yeah, let's trade the best back in the nfl. That should really help us out. Let's trade Percy and Allen, too.

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 06:39 PM
Our redzone offense is garbage. Yes we have a 100% scoring rate but its mainly fgs. If we got two of the tds that we should have had its a different ball game.

Penalties. Its not surprise that in the two losses they commit alot of penalties.

Defense cant seem to cover the middle. The skins probably ran the same cross over the middle 8 or 9 times with success.

Walsh is going to set the single season record for field goals made plain and simple.

For the second and third quarter the vikes played like the vikes from last year, just frustrating pathetic football. Ill give them credit in the first and fourth they moved the ball real well until we hit the redzone.

Just a frustrating game to watch and I hate RGIII

It seemed the middle was open because the LB's were cheating up to try to keep RG in check

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 06:41 PM
Yeah, let's trade the best back in the nfl. That should really help us out. Let's trade Percy and Allen, too.

Tell me how he makes us anything but one dimensional? No one wants to be the team he shreds to pieces therefore everyone plays him at 110% He hardly ever hits the hole on the 1st or 2nd move. The one time we left him in on pass protect Ponder fumbles, and that was the huge momentum changer. If we have the best back in football why can't convert at least one of those 1st quarter field goals into touchdowns?
At least put our best RB Harvin out there to give us a chance.

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 06:45 PM
Next game is Arizona at home. But yes, they sky is falling. This coaching staff is terrible. 73 yard QB Draw for a TD? Does no one watch film? Does no one tell Adrian Peterson to quit with the jump cuts and actually gain yards on a run? Vanilla schedule and the only QBs with half a brain shred us. Oh, not to mention Adrian Peterson still doesn't know how to pass protect. If it wasn't for him there would have been no Ponder fumble. Can we please trade him so we aren't so one dimensional anymore?

Ponder threw 52 times
AD rushed 17 times.
How will trading AD make us less one dimensional?

skum
10-14-2012, 06:46 PM
My take..

When the opposing quarterback has 138 yards rushing along with giving up 38 points, you are not gonna win a lot of games..

Again strong finish by Ponder, some key mistakes on some bad throws but i don't feel i can put the loss on him.. The defense had a terrible game along with to many penalties from what we believed was a very disciplined team...

Reignman
10-14-2012, 06:47 PM
Settling for FG's cost us. If we go up 17-0 the skins would've taken themselves out of the game and we coast to 5-1. Instead we settle for FG's and allow the skins to hang around. Really? A draw play with TG on 3 n 4 in the RZ? Good grief! I hate how this team doesn't use it's best weapons on the most important plays.

And it's not a Viking game until they give you that hopes up moment so they can rip out your still beating heart. Now we have 3 embarrassing QB runs on the lifetime highlight reel, Young, Vick, and now RG3.

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 06:52 PM
Thank God we don't play another QB like that again. I don't see him having a long career but he got the best of us today.

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 06:54 PM
Ponder threw 52 times
AD rushed 17 times.
How will trading AD make us less one dimensional?

So we can trade this guy for the entire kitchen sink and become a real threat.
3 FGs in the first quarter? We start out AMAZING, can't rely on running the ball in the redzone to convert those to touchdowns. Did you see Peterson's pass protect on Ponder's fumble? Prime example of why we need to get rid of him at his peak. Or maybe if our coaching staff had any type of gall he would become an all-around back instead of this feast or famine guy. Don't let him get away with this piss poor play.

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 07:00 PM
We really need Simpson to be healthy to open up the field.
Penalties and turnovers cost us.
Take the handcuffs off from Ponder. I love his drives at the end of games.
Frustrated, but it is football.

The most frustrating part is going to be all of the people online who are going to come in here with the sky is falling mentality.

We are 4-2 people, not 2-4. Keep that in mind. Just saying. Let's take care of Atlanta at home.

Didn't take long, did it Nodak?

skum
10-14-2012, 07:03 PM
So we can trade this guy for the entire kitchen sink and become a real threat.
3 FGs in the first quarter? We start out AMAZING, can't rely on running the ball in the redzone to convert those to touchdowns. Did you see Peterson's pass protect on Ponder's fumble? Prime example of why we need to get rid of him at his peak. Or maybe if our coaching staff had any type of gall he would become an all-around back instead of this feast or famine guy. Don't let him get away with this piss poor play.

I don't know what your issue is.. But i think Adrian Peterson is a pretty good runningback and a good asset to our team and i don't think trading him would be a good decision to mostly because we won't get a big enough deal from any team and he also has a 100 million dollar contract along with a recent knee surgery..

I know it was a tough loss for us and a gave we should and could have won.. But lets not melt-down completely.. We won 3 games last year and have won 4 this year.. Things are going forward..

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 07:08 PM
I don't know what your issue is.. But i think Adrian Peterson is a pretty good runningback and a good asset to our team and i don't think trading him would be a good decision to mostly because we won't get a big enough deal from any team and he also has a 100 million dollar contract along with a recent knee surgery..

I know it was a tough loss for us and a gave we should and could have won.. But lets not melt-down completely.. We won 3 games last year and have won 4 this year.. Things are going forward..

Someone did it to us with Hershal Walker...it's payback time.

Ranger
10-14-2012, 07:08 PM
So we can trade this guy for the entire kitchen sink and become a real threat.
3 FGs in the first quarter? We start out AMAZING, can't rely on running the ball in the redzone to convert those to touchdowns. Did you see Peterson's pass protect on Ponder's fumble? Prime example of why we need to get rid of him at his peak. Or maybe if our coaching staff had any type of gall he would become an all-around back instead of this feast or famine guy. Don't let him get away with this piss poor play.

If you think we would get the kitchen sink for him, why do you think other GMs and coaches would be willing to trade said sink?

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 07:12 PM
Next week we're back on track against AZ at home. All will be well again.

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 07:12 PM
If you think we would get the kitchen sink for him, why do you think other GMs and coaches would be willing to trade said sink?

Hoping for a Herschel Walker type deal that will let us dominate for half a decade or so.

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 07:15 PM
Someone did it to us with Hershal Walker...it's payback time.

If we could get a Herschel trade, I doubt any one would complain about the trade. Unfortunately guys like "he who shall not be named" ,ML, are not occupying space in many teams front offices.

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 07:16 PM
Next week we're back on track against AZ at home. All will be well again.

Maybe this loss will help the team grow, but at the peak of a winning streak to collapse like this when we haven't even gotten to the meat of our division games yet is really disheartening.

rednorsk
10-14-2012, 07:17 PM
What on earth happened? Once again the middle was wide open, as noted the red zone offense was missing, and Ponder had a bad day over throwing receivers except when it was to the Redskins.

Caine
10-14-2012, 07:18 PM
Tell me how he makes us anything but one dimensional? No one wants to be the team he shreds to pieces therefore everyone plays him at 110% He hardly ever hits the hole on the 1st or 2nd move. The one time we left him in on pass protect Ponder fumbles, and that was the huge momentum changer. If we have the best back in football why can't convert at least one of those 1st quarter field goals into touchdowns?
At least put our best RB Harvin out there to give us a chance.

You're missing the fact that the only reason we even have a dimension is because of him. The Vikings minus Peterson are a team devoid of threats. Harvin is talented, but he is more effective when the entire other team isn't focused on him. With AP out there, Harvin isn't the focus - Peterson is.

Game sucked.

D looked lost - RGIII froze them on play after play. Haven't seen one guy burn a team so badly since Steve Smith ate Fred Smoot's lunch for him.

We need receivers...bad.

Ponder didn't look so hot today either. Still not sold on him.

Field goals are nice, but we need TDs.

Caine

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 07:19 PM
And it's not a Viking game until they give you that hopes up moment so they can rip out your still beating heart.

Welcome to Viking Nation my friend.

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 07:21 PM
The team being devoid of talent is why I'm for trading Peterson, for any type of long term studs. Ala Herschel Walker deal. Other than that I agree with everything else you had to say.

VikesfaninWis
10-14-2012, 07:25 PM
Losing to the Skins and that punk ass RG3 is what is pissing me off. That dude is cocky as all hell. What has he done in his 6 total games in the NFL to get the type of protection that guys like Manning, Brady, and those type of QB's get? On his last TD run, his OL was holding like crazy, but is one of them called? Hell no. Then that idiot is on the sidelines laughing for like 20 f'n minutes. Someone should tell him to stop smiling on camera with those big ass teeth, looks like his mom had a affair with Mr. Ed.

Another thing that pissed me off is when the Vikings were down by 12 late, they showed Allen, Griffen, and Guyion all laughing on the sidelines. Why were you guys laughing? It was mainly you guys that couldn't get to RG3, and this secondary that couldn't cover or tackle on why they lost today, and you dumb asses are laughing. Lost some respect for them guys as players today.

So how come this team can dominate the 49ers and that offense, but get walked all over by RG3 and the f'n Skins? That was flat out embarrassing, and yet these guys were laughing on the sidelines. Also, what in the hell happened to Ponder today? My god, that dude made some dumb ass mistakes today that cost this team many of points. 3 times in the redzone in the 1st quarter alone, and you can't manage one single f'n TD in that time. Those stats boys, you deserve to lose. Now I am not expecting much from this team this team, but I surely didn't expect them to lose against the Skins today. Just a awful performance all the way around. Yes sitting at 4-2 is still pretty good, but you can't let teams like the Skins beat up on you like they did today.

Dibbzz
10-14-2012, 07:34 PM
Can we NOW please sign Plaxico Burress???

PLEASE??

Suick
10-14-2012, 07:34 PM
We need more of a killer instinct. FG's won't get it. I said that in the first quarter.
AP.......... Please stop cutting back into the teeth of the defense when the 1st down is in sight!!!!

We should of had this one.

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 07:38 PM
We need more of a killer instinct. FG's won't get it. I said that in the first quarter.
AP.......... Please stop cutting back into the teeth of the defense when the 1st down is in sight!!!!

We should of had this one.

Exactly! If we had a coach that was actually good, he would bench Peterson for doing stupid ish like that.

Suick
10-14-2012, 07:50 PM
Wouldn't bench him, but I believe he'd get 2X yardage if he'd just not do that 2nd, 3rd, or 4th cut

marshallvike
10-14-2012, 07:51 PM
Let me see if I have this down. We lost an away game out doors on grass so we must fire Frazier and Dump Adrian. At least we are not over reacting.

Purple Floyd
10-14-2012, 07:55 PM
Shit happens. On one hand we are still better at this point than I thought we would be. On the other hand, it looked for a while like we had fundamentally changed the psychology of the team and the organization. This game was pretty much the blueprint of what we have come to expect from this organization- Facing a rookie QB who is coming off a concussion and we supply him with a highlight reel video he can show his grandchildren of how he ran all over the Vikings in his rookie year.

Personally I still think we need to change our offensive mentality inside the 30 yard line. I consistently see other teams taking shots at the end zone and yet we seem content to ball control it right down to the goal line and then kick a field goal. This was something that started with Childress and it still plagues the team.

Rambro987
10-14-2012, 08:03 PM
Let me see if I have this down. We lost an away game out doors on grass so we must fire Frazier and Dump Adrian. At least we are not over reacting.

I'm overrating to the loss, because all the problems that plagued this team during the Childress era, are still prevalent in this team. As a matter of fact I feel like we are still in it. I hope I'm wrong, but until we get an overhaul from the Front office down to the coaching, we will continue to lick the boots of the Pukers and Bears.

NodakPaul
10-14-2012, 08:24 PM
Let me see if I have this down. We lost an away game out doors on grass so we must fire Frazier and Dump Adrian. At least we are not over reacting.

lol. yup.

acman1
10-14-2012, 08:27 PM
So I'm pretty much just upset at the play in the 2nd quarter maybe I think, Redskins have it 3rd and 2 or 3 maybe on their 25 or so with the vikings still having the lead I believe and the RB clearly moved early but they didn't call a false start and the Redskins converted and moved the ball down the field for a score of some sort. Pretty vague, but I'd consider that a turning point in the game. We stop them there, the momentum is ours again I believe. Anyways, bad call by the refs (no they didn't make us lose, but I think this was a big play missed early).

NodakPaul
10-14-2012, 08:41 PM
I'm overrating to the loss, because all the problems that plagued this team during the Childress era, are still prevalent in this team. As a matter of fact I feel like we are still in it. I hope I'm wrong, but until we get an overhaul from the Front office down to the coaching, we will continue to lick the boots of the Pukers and Bears.

Deep breaths....

In....

Out...

In...

Out...

First of all, overreacting doesn't help. It was a tough loss, but firing from the hip and wanting to trade AD and shitcan the front office and coaching staff isn't the answer. This is why fans make poor GMs and head coaches. ;)

And I am pretty sure that we aren't licking anyone's boots this season. If you haven't missed it, Green Bay is only 2-3 right now. Even if they win tonight (big IF), they still haven't caught us.

We saw a decent amount of young mistakes tonight. Ponder got flustered for a while in the third. Robinson bit to the inside on RGIII's run. Things like that happen. We made mistakes, and to be fair the Redskins played a hell of a game. I give them a lot of credit.

But one game doesn't make or break a season. Even with this loss, we are still WAY ahead of where I thought we would be at this point. We did better on draft day than I thought we would. Our defense is no longer an embarrassment. Our offense is still trying to find its identify, but it has definitely brought some excitement back. That shows me that we have both a front office and a coaching staff that is moving in the right direction.

I can honestly say that right up until the end I thought we had a chance to pull this out. We were down by four with 3 minutes left. I absolutely had hope, and that comes from success that we have seen already this year. This time it didn't happen, but dammit, its been a long time - since BEFORE Childress - that I can honestly say that I had hope right up until the bitter end. Hell, even on that last drive I was entertaining thoughts of a rally. :)

I am looking forward to getting back on track against AZ. We have some things to work on, to be sure. But I am still excited for the game, and still excited for the season. Hell, there are even glimmers of the "p" word on the horizon, and had you told me that before the season started I would have said you were crazy. And yet here we are.

NodakPaul
10-14-2012, 08:45 PM
Personally I still think we need to change our offensive mentality inside the 30 yard line. I consistently see other teams taking shots at the end zone and yet we seem content to ball control it right down to the goal line and then kick a field goal. This was something that started with Childress and it still plagues the team.

Agreed here. Ball control/short game offense simply doesn't work as well when the field is compressed. The safeties are able to play too shallow making those YAC and runs that much harder. If we had a WR who could get deep quickly it would help... Simpson needs to get his dumb ass healthy.

It is funny, I think we are considerable better inside the 10 than we are in the 10-20 range.

STCLOUDSAYSGOVIKES
10-14-2012, 10:07 PM
Relax, it's just football.

Purple Floyd
10-14-2012, 10:25 PM
Agreed here. Ball control/short game offense simply doesn't work as well when the field is compressed. The safeties are able to play too shallow making those YAC and runs that much harder. If we had a WR who could get deep quickly it would help... Simpson needs to get his dumb ass healthy.

It is funny, I think we are considerable better inside the 10 than we are in the 10-20 range.
At the same time as I sit and watch the Packers dismantle the Texans tonight it seems pretty clear that the Vikings are a long ways away from getting to their level. They have injuries all over the roster and still are up by 25 points.

I am amazed that they can field RB's you have never heard of before and have WR's by the name of crabtree who have more tattoos than NFL starts and he can still get open enough to score a nearly 50 yard TD. Yet we can't even score 1 that long all season by any WR. Their defense is losing starters and they just plug a guy in and keep playing at the same level.

So yeah, the sky isn't falling but OTOH there are a lot tougher teams that we will face this year and if we have this kind of trouble with Washington, it doesn't bode well for what we have in store.

As I said, I am not really critical of the number of wins and losses we have this year, I am more focused on how we play as a team and what they look like winning and losing. Even though we did win last week the offense didn't look good and this week when we needed them to they laid a pretty big egg.

Caine
10-14-2012, 10:58 PM
As I stated earlier, the glaring area this game highlighted AGAIN was the complete lack of receivers. Our outside guys were in 1-1 coverage all night long...and couldn't get open. That allowed Washington to load up on AP and put pressure on Ponder.

We DESPERATELY need outside WR help. We need to force Defenses to play back a bit for fear of the deep ball torching them. That will allow Harvin to destroy them from the slot, and Peterson to torment them in the 2nd/3rd level.

It will also allow Ponder to show us what he's truly made of.

Caine

iowa
10-14-2012, 11:03 PM
We got beat by a freakish athlete, a bigger, faster, smarter version of Mike Vick, he's going to do that to a lot of teams until he gets beat down.We'll have better luck next week chasing the likes of Kevin Kolb.

lakehubertviking
10-14-2012, 11:06 PM
What's the official rule on the Horse Collar tackle?

It seemed like Smith got all jersey and I was under the impression it was only called if you got your hands inside the pads. I tried downloading the 2012 rules book and searching for "Horse", but it only gives the penalty code "HC" and no definition. Maybe I just took it too literally when hearing announcers say it was pulling a guy down by the pads.

12purplepride28
10-14-2012, 11:47 PM
Yeah, let's trade the best back in the nfl. That should really help us out. Let's trade Percy and Allen, too.

Alright, I gotta call you out there. No way is he the best back in football. He doesn't produce like he used to. He's still a top back, but Ray Rice, Arian Foster, and maybe even Lesean McCoy are all as good if not better than AP. His numbers are very pedestrian this year and he's virtually useless in the passing game. His running isn't good enough to cover up his other deficiencies anymore. That said, I still love him and wouldn't want to trade him (even though I would've traded him before last year) because we wouldn't be able to get good value for him.

12purplepride28
10-14-2012, 11:50 PM
Someone did it to us with Hershal Walker...it's payback time.

What the hell kind of trade do you think we'd be able to pull off, especially if he sucks as much as you're saying?

jmcdon00
10-14-2012, 11:52 PM
What's the official rule on the Horse Collar tackle?

It seemed like Smith got all jersey and I was under the impression it was only called if you got your hands inside the pads. I tried downloading the 2012 rules book and searching for "Horse", but it only gives the penalty code "HC" and no definition. Maybe I just took it too literally when hearing announcers say it was pulling a guy down by the pads.
Horse-collar tackle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse-collar_tackle)

The horse-collar tackle is an American football maneuver in which a defender tackles another player by grabbing the back-inside of an opponent's shoulder pads. The technique is most closely associated with Pro Bowl safety Roy Williams. This kind of tackle was banned from the NFL during the 2005 offseason; the rule forbidding it is often referred to in the press as "The Roy Williams Rule."[1] The rule was expanded to include the back of the jersey collar in 2006. The rule, with modifications, was adopted in college and high school football in 2008 and 2009, respectively.

jmcdon00
10-15-2012, 12:34 AM
Not too concerned, I didn't expect to go 15-1. If we lose at home to Arizona then I'll be concerned.
Ponder made a few mistakes, he's a young QB and those things are going to happen. I was encouraged by the fact that he didn't implode and made some big plays down the stretch.

We allowed RG3 to make some huge plays with his legs, he's a great young talent those things are going to happen. Our defense did a good job covering recievers, but too often RG3 was able to avoid the rusher and either find a reciever or take off running. The good news is we don't face another Qb like RG3 again this season.
We held Morris to his lowest total yards(47) and lowest yards per attempt of the season(2.9).

digital420
10-15-2012, 03:40 AM
right...

first off.. heartbreaking loss. i've read a lot of BS around (and in this thread), people need to be reminded that we are, one of the youngest teams, rebuilding, under new coaching staff, coming off a 3 win season, and every expert in the world picked the vikes to finish in the bottom 5 of the nfl.

as fans, sure we get over hyped, read story-lines, react to each others posts.. but that does not change the fact that there is a LOT of work to be done for the vikes to be a consistent force in the nfl.

so the redskins... man. i was stocked in the first qtr.. dad was laughing the world was in sync. AP was running, PH was receiving, and Ponder was working well. then we hit the RZ.. i think we're still trying to find some identity there, as it seems we don't have a set plan of attack. I expect this and penalties to be a big focus for the coaches this week. if we converted 1 or 2 of those 3 fg's into td's.. this game woulda been so much different.

the Option.. holy #$%#$.. RGIII annoying as he is, and there were times i wanted to $!#% $ %#$ %!%$ him.. but that is talent. he did well as a passer, runner, and faking the hand offs. he froze our lbr's, held for the most part his cool. but for me as a sports icon, he needs to learn when to flash his smile, and when to be a good sport. that cocky attitude along with the ref's babying him.. (ie hendersons ruffing the qb?) i've seen farts push people more.. (yes there was a lot of bad ref calls, but i've said it before and i stand by it. refs do not win/loose games.. if you put yourself in that position, you deserve it). back to the option.. this will give DC's headaches.. unless you
1. get ahead first and big
2. hit the qb a lot more then we did

Ponder.. i havn't re-watched it but I seemed to notice that in the RZ ponder is missing because he focus's on one receiver. i thought i saw a few open receivers, @ least more open then his target. but hey.. i'm a fan watching on tv with replay.. he's standing there live action with 3 sec to decide who to throw too, and make the throw. i'll give it to ponder and the coaches, so far as a group they have my confidence still.

we desperately need an outside receiver, and RZ target besdies PH and Rudy.. by the way.. how often do you see Rudy drop passes? gonna happen, no man can catch 100% of the time.

Defence.. well we started great.. puckered out, then came back in the end.. just to.. let 1 by.. i'm still happy with the progress of unit as a whole, and can't wait to see them back into action in the dome.

some positives? Walsh.. didn't give them a chance on KR's.. was 100% fg..
SPT actually did a very good job all in all. great coverage!
the team never gave up.. even after the 75 yrd qb jaunt.. we never gave up!

you can only get better by finding your weakness, accepting it, and striving to overcome it. here's to hoping that the Vikes both players and coaches review this game, find those and work toward fixing them.

DiGiTaL

ConnecticutViking
10-15-2012, 03:49 AM
Lets get our expectations back in line. At the start of the season, nobody on this site had us pegged at 4-2. We have one good quality win (49ers) at home and 3 wins against teams that are meh (Lions, Jags, Titans). A loss to the Colts in OT (not a great team) on the road, a loss to RG3 on the road. This team is going to have growing pains, we have a lot of new guys in our secondary, a second year qb, a rb coming off of knee surgery, our deep threat was out and we played against a freak athlete that basically won the game on his own.

When you play against a running qb, it places pressure on your line to keep lanes, your lb to spy contain and cover the middle, and your secondary-to not break off to early to contain a broken run. We got caught too many times trying to do too much. We are a relatively young D, it's going to happen.
Offensively, we had no deep threat, dinks and dunks. Got too conservative in the red zone early and I think we could have sent a message on the first drive by going for it on 4th and goal at the 2. Instead we opted for 3, which I guess is the right call, but on the road and knowing this was the first drive, I think we should have put the pop gun away and pulled out the dagger.

After 6 games...I am happy where we are. We could be 6-0 but quite frankly we could also be 2-4.

digital420
10-15-2012, 03:54 AM
I'm overrating to the loss, because all the problems that plagued this team during the Childress era, are still prevalent in this team. As a matter of fact I feel like we are still in it. I hope I'm wrong, but until we get an overhaul from the Front office down to the coaching, we will continue to lick the boots of the Pukers and Bears.

um... can i get whatever he is drinking/smoking/breathing?

really? you mean you havn't noticed a massive change in attitude? I guess you figured because the Vikes went 4 - 1 they should be 15-1 or it's a bust year? lets see..
overhaul coaching.. right.. SlickRick is GM.. soley in control..
NEW OC/DC
Frazier is not chillywilly... in sooo many ways..

this team is rebuilding. they don't want to call it that. but it's the facts.
it's rebuilding faster then anyone thought.. why? because we are soo lucky?????
Slickrick, coaches, scouts.. all those guys you want fired they are the reason.


we lost to the stinkskins.. and to the colts. so what? realize something outside the box. these 2 teams have qb's that have VERY LITTLE on tape.. so while trying to figure out how they move here, or there. tell tale signs of a run vs pass, or even tendencies.. don't exist on tape. plays, concepts, and formations maybe you can get an idea on. but they are so new they don't even always have it down pat yet. does that mean we should loose? no but it means teams will have problems vs them.

one last off thread topic point.. how can we be licking the boots of teams below us in div standings.. or who we havn't played yet?

DiGiTaL

ps sorry guys, but this just.. was not for me to read without coffee..

Zeus
10-15-2012, 06:16 AM
PPO never disappoints.

=Z=

AngloVike
10-15-2012, 06:35 AM
Whether people like it or not we are still a young team and so will make mistakes that goes with that territory. The most obvious issue was the absence of Simpson which took away any deep threat we may have had - the other WRs currently on the field are average at best and so meant the 'skins could almost discard defending deeply.
Ponder made a couple of errors but did his best to pull us back, but given our first three possessions only yielded FGs then it was always going to be hard. I'm sorry we lost but, IMO, we played better than the score suggests.

Purple Floyd
10-15-2012, 06:57 AM
We are a young team. However, their QB was younger than ours yet we couldn't rattle him while they were able to rattle ours pretty good.

singersp
10-15-2012, 06:58 AM
Plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the ball and coaching including Ponder & AD. Ponder looked great for a lot of the game but looked bad throwing the ball on some of those passes too. Those 3 turnovers killed us. Two of them led directly to 14 points for the Redskins & the 3rd ended any hope we may have had. There's no way I can fault Ponder for a poor 3rd quarter, as that lies on the defense. We only completed one drive in the 3rd & we ended up scoring a FG.

6 years in the league & AD STILL can't pass block worth a shit. It's mind boggling considering how physically strong & athletic he is.

I missed the entire 1st quarter (thanx to the Lions OT game) but it sounds like we stopped being aggressive in the redzone, like we were last week & reverted back to playing it safe & being complacent with FG's. Note to coaching staff: It didn't take long to surpass those 9 points did it?

The defense went backwards in time also. RGIII rolled right on several occasions with no one there to keep him from throwing. Where was Robinson? When he did throw the ball & completed a pass, there were several times I waited anxiously for a CB or safety to finally come into view & make a tackle. There was way too much cushion being given in this game, when we needed to see the aggressiveness of the backfield that we enjoyed the past two weeks.

All preseason long up until the start of the regular season, I and a few others have been voicing the need for a reliable deep threat WR. Some have said we didn't need one because we were a WCO, others thought Simpson would be that guy.

6 weeks into the season, we still need for a reliable deep threat WR. Simpson is fast becoming a liability, rather than an asset & we still don't have another deep threat WR to go to while we wait to see if Simpson can make it on the field & be a contributor.

We will live to fight another day & hopefully learn from this loss, but I hope the coaches spend sometime reviewing game tape & discover what's been working, what hasn't & quits continuing to go down the "not working" or "maybe it'll work this time" paths.

We are still 4-2, still can win the division, but need to figure some things out before Harvin burns out. With defenses keying in on Harvin, AD & our short game, one would think there would be 2-3 other receiving options on any given play, but it's not happening like it should, unless they're open & Ponder isn't making the reads or seeing them as the pocket collapses around him.

I know we are a young team for the most part, but I don't see Jenkins, Aromashodu or Arceneaux improving any more than what they already are.

singersp
10-15-2012, 07:06 AM
The most obvious issue was the absence of Simpson which took away any deep threat we may have had

While I agree with that, we did win 3 games without him & a 4th game where he caught only 4 passes, but I think teams are now & will be keying in on our lack of a deep pass until we prove we can beat them deep.

I believe we need another deep threat WR, if ones available, in addition to Simpson to make the threat a reality.

Ponder showed yesterday that he can gun the ball & doesn't always need to lob it.

PurplePowerPunch
10-15-2012, 08:05 AM
Man, did the defense get RG3'd or what? We can still win the division so no worries Vikings fans, just stay loyal and we'll be fine. When our O turns the football over, we have no chance to win games. All Day has to stop making so many cuts and hit the hole and go. We need to forget this game and get ready for Arizona at home.


SKOL VIKES FOR LIFE!

kingpin9995
10-15-2012, 09:28 AM
While I agree with that, we did win 3 games without him & a 4th game where he caught only 4 passes, but I think teams are now & will be keying in on our lack of a deep pass until we prove we can beat them deep.

I believe we need another deep threat WR, if ones available, in addition to Simpson to make the threat a reality.

Ponder showed yesterday that he can gun the ball & doesn't always need to lob it.

First off one of the big additons this off season was their first signing of John Carlson. You know that they thought having them two working the middle would be a big part of this offense. Carslon has been a TOTAL Flop.. They guy has 2 catche sfor 1 yard. What the hell is with this guy? His total lack of production is hurting a team that you know was looking foward to having him on the field with Rudolph.

Second, lets get real. We are still light years away from the Peckers. They will win the division even though I'd like to take Erins discount double check and shove it up his skinny fem azz. Ponder is being way to coddled. Either they don't trust him enough down in the red zone or he's just too indecisive down there. He seems to not want to throw the ball early in games and just let it go. Until he gets confidence doing that and being successful he'll never get to a top level.

Third, for the first time I saw a defene not ready to execute a game plan. Too many guys falling for fake handoffs, and watching INSTEAD OF REACTING. Henderson tackled the wrong guy without the ball at least 5 times yesterday.

Finally, this is a year of mediocrity in most of the league. I hate to see it but you will see this young team lose it's early confidence and start to reel. They must go at least 6-2 to have a chance to be competitive the second half. If they lose to the Cards next week. LOOK OUT FOR THE HOUSE OF CARDS TO FALL.

Oh and can we take that dumb fuking slide rule of the qbs and shat can it. It's ridiculous. A qb can toss the ball away anytime he wants. For him to be able to now just take off and slide is a joke in the NFL. It's just embarrassing watching these guys slide down and then get up and point the first down finger. They should be ashamed they are so coddled.

mountainviking
10-15-2012, 10:16 AM
Ummm, by the way, the Redskins are a top five offensive team in both yards and points, currently tied with the Giants for 3rd in the NFL in points scored, with the Bears only a tenth of a point/game ahead. IF you thought they wouldn't score against us on their home field, you were wrong by a long shot...specially given the fore-mentioned lack of tape to study tendencies of the RG3.

We still played a close game on the road and never hanged it up early. That shows me that the players are believing in what the coaches are selling, and that the coaches believe that Ponder gives us a shot at 2 TDs when trailing by multiple scores, on the road, late in the 4th quarter. A big change from the Chiller years when nobody but him thought we had a Kick Ass Offense.

Our team, especially the secondary, is SO young. Winfield was the only starter of 5 DBs with over 16 games started. Of course there's going to be mistakes. That 79? yard run was a comedy of errors with several just misses, and our promising young safety/last line of defense, Smith, underestimating the RG3's speed and taking an angle just a hair short of stopping him. He'll watch the tape, and very likely take a better angle the next time.

We still need AT LEAST one more deep-threat WR. If we want to score with the Packers, we may need to add 2 or 3 more, because if you look at their draft history, you'll see that every WR (and some of their TEs) but Driver was an early pick in the first 3 rounds, most of them 2nds. Injuries happen, and you need to have enough depth to get somebody open even when you're missing a guy AND their top cover-corner nearly eliminates your top threat's chances.

Yes, we're not a legit playoff team this year. Too young, too inexperienced...what do you expect after a 3-13 year with so many new, young pieces in place!??? A true playoff contender would most likely destroy us on their home turf. BUT, we are a lot better than originally advertised, and are showing some serious signs of potential going forward. Personally, I hope we don't win Too many games, because we still have several holes to fill and an earlier draft pick is more likely to get that done sooner than later.

If we add the right pieces via FA and the draft, ummm, say, a true no.1 WR, DT, depth/perhaps upgrades at LB and Safety, this team could be a true threat to win what may be the best division in football as early as next season. Not Bad my friends, not bad at all!

SKOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kevoncox
10-15-2012, 10:18 AM
I think we did a lot of things right at Washington and it should be a game that we should have won. We dominated the skins in the first quarter and the game should have been over by then. 4 Fgs is unacceptable.

We need to hit the FA market and sign a WR. Jenkins, Devin and all the other guys we have on roster are JAGs(just another guy). This team needs a posession besides Harvin. I begged for it early and was rebuffed. Everyone wanted two TEs when we had no need. Hell the guy we drafted looks better than Carlson. We should have taken that money and invested in a WR.

mountainviking
10-15-2012, 10:46 AM
I think we did a lot of things right at Washington and it should be a game that we should have won. We dominated the skins in the first quarter and the game should have been over by then. 4 Fgs is unacceptable.

We need to hit the FA market and sign a WR. Jenkins, Devin and all the other guys we have on roster are JAGs(just another guy). This team needs a posession besides Harvin. I begged for it early and was rebuffed. Everyone wanted two TEs when we had no need. Hell the guy we drafted looks better than Carlson. We should have taken that money and invested in a WR.

I agree with you on nearly everything you said there, but think we have possession guys and need more deep-threats. I'd say try to add a true no.1 who can do it all and a deep-threat guy. But, the soon-to-be FA list doesn't look real exciting: 2012 Contract Year Players / 2013 NFL Free Agents: WRs (http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2012/contract_year_players.cfm?player_pos=WR)

Jennings gets hurt too often, and fat chance in hell the Giants let Cruz cruise away. Wallace fits the deep-threat only category, and may be our best bet, as the limited skill set might make his contract a bit more realistic. Dwayne Bowe could be a true no.1, but hasn't been able to keep it rolling steady with the QBs he's had...maybe. Maybe we need to nail a first round pick at WR next draft...?

I want Carlson to do well as the home-town hero (my HS plays Litchfield every year), but you're right, he's been totally out-played by Ellison, who has been a real nice surprise for a 4th. Thing is, his 5M/year doesn't buy much of a WR when guys like Garcon and Laurent Robinson are stealing millions for very little production...

Rambro987
10-15-2012, 11:30 AM
um... can i get whatever he is drinking/smoking/breathing?

really? you mean you havn't noticed a massive change in attitude? I guess you figured because the Vikes went 4 - 1 they should be 15-1 or it's a bust year? lets see..
overhaul coaching.. right.. SlickRick is GM.. soley in control..
NEW OC/DC
Frazier is not chillywilly... in sooo many ways..

this team is rebuilding. they don't want to call it that. but it's the facts.
it's rebuilding faster then anyone thought.. why? because we are soo lucky?????
Slickrick, coaches, scouts.. all those guys you want fired they are the reason.


we lost to the stinkskins.. and to the colts. so what? realize something outside the box. these 2 teams have qb's that have VERY LITTLE on tape.. so while trying to figure out how they move here, or there. tell tale signs of a run vs pass, or even tendencies.. don't exist on tape. plays, concepts, and formations maybe you can get an idea on. but they are so new they don't even always have it down pat yet. does that mean we should loose? no but it means teams will have problems vs them.

one last off thread topic point.. how can we be licking the boots of teams below us in div standings.. or who we havn't played yet?

DiGiTaL

ps sorry guys, but this just.. was not for me to read without coffee..

I just have way higher expectations for this team, maybe I'm looking into the 49ers win way more than I should have. We just had a killer instinct in that game, going for it on 4th and goal? Where was that in this game? Fail coaching expecting us to completely shut down the redskins, and 3 field goals was good enough.

What you said about game tape, it's frustrating to know teams will be viewing this game on what NOT to do. I know I've seen MANY QB draws by RG3 this season, ones that put daggers through the heart of Tampa Bay for the game winning field goal, and put up TDs in all their other games too. I don't have all that available to review. but I know the coaching staff should have and why we weren't prepared for it, couldn't tell you. I fully expected that we should have though.
I really do expect us to win every game that's how much I freaking love this team. Settling for 3 FGs in the 1st quarter? FFS the game could have been put away at that point, and I knew it would comeback to bite us as soon as I saw it. Maybe I should just shove that under the rug and chalk it up to us being a growing team?
I just saw the Bears on bye and a great opportunity to take the division lead over them and was sorely disappointed.

Randy Moss
10-15-2012, 12:38 PM
It seemed like we just weren't very well prepared and didn't make good adjustments. I wasn't really impressed with RG3. I thought he was supposed to be a traditional pocket passer who could take off and run, but they just ran a college offense. I don't think he had to make a single read the entire game.
That said, we got beat by that college offense, badly. I could see getting thrown off by it for a couple drives, but we need to be able to adjust for that. I haven't watched a Skins game this season, had they been running that offense all year? If so, we really didn't look very prepared.

It also looked like we were really having trouble on the wet field. We looked slow and were slipping. Obviously Ponder had trouble with this is well with the ball where it slipped on the fumble and a couple overthrows.

I say trade all of our good players. That's the reasonable thing to do after a loss.

tastywaves
10-15-2012, 12:46 PM
Man, did the defense get RG3'd or what? We can still win the division so no worries Vikings fans, just stay loyal and we'll be fine. When our O turns the football over, we have no chance to win games. All Day has to stop making so many cuts and hit the hole and go. We need to forget this game and get ready for Arizona at home.


SKOL VIKES FOR LIFE!

RG3'd is pretty much the story. After the first quarter, he pretty much had his way with us. Whether it was through the air, running, or play fake.

Ponder had a number of bad throws, that he has to clean up.

Walsh is now putting his kickoffs through the goal posts, pretty cool.

Harvin continues to be the pocket hercules of the team. Rudolph was getting a little more involved in the game mentally, liked to see it. We should ride him more. That high pass to the end of the end zone on the 2 point conversion is damned near in-defensible.

What was the name of that WR we added in FA that was supposed to give us a vertical threat? Can't seem to remember his name, is he still on the team?

Expecting us to continue to elevate throughout the season is a bit lofty IMO. We are still young, still void of skill at a number of positions and still getting our identity put together. However, this league seems to be as even across the board as I have ever seen it. Houston and SF get smacked down, NE goes down to Seattle, Atlanta barely beats Oakland and the Titans beat Pittsburgh.

Let's see how they bounce back against the Cardinals. Good defensive team, but struggling on offense.

ConnecticutViking
10-15-2012, 02:49 PM
Ponder had a number of bad throws, that he has to clean up.

Sometimes I get killed for this, but is Ponder our future QB. Here is a list of starting QB's in either their first or second year. I may have missed some? Where would you rank Ponder? May not be fair because some of these guys were taken early, but not all.

Andrew Luck, Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blane Gabbert, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder

TheAnimal93
10-15-2012, 03:27 PM
Okay, some of you people should not hit enter. Please. Calm down, get a beer and/or a big heavy sandwich and relax and digest what you just watched. A football game, by YOUR Minnesota Vikings. If you have been a Vikings fan for more than one season you should know your place by now. lol
It was one game. If you asked most of you/me/us if you would take 4-2 after six games, we would all say, "Hell Yeah!" So let's just hope that they can bounce back at home vs. the Cards. This will be a heck of a game, I know that Fitz will be pumped to come back to Minny.

snowinapril
10-15-2012, 04:14 PM
Yes RG3 made us play defense differently than normal.
Yes we had too many turnovers.
Yes we should have scored more TDs off the bat instead of the FGs.
Yes Ponder was inaccurate yesterday.

No we don't trade AP. His long run was awesome, that is why you keep giving him the ball. If you take the long run of 32yds off the AP's total he was averaging 2.13 yds/carry. This is the most receptions AP has had in one game that I can remember in a long while. He had 7 rec in one game and the most he has had in a season was 43 rec in 2009. I think this is a good thing.

We shouldn't have had to throw 52 times. I give some credit to the Skin's defense for making the adjustments and putting us in the position that we were playing from behind. They weren't giving Ponder much time to stand in the pocket and throw. Ponder was rushing some throws. They were hell bent to get AP and if he wasn't carrying the ball, they were heading to the QB, ears pinned back.

RG3's run broke our back, but we were all in on that play defensively and he got through with nobody on the back end to stop him. We had 6 guys on the line rushing against 5 linemen. All the other corners were out on the edges with the 4 WRs and the only guy to stop RG3 was Sanford who took the wrong angle on RG3 and that was it. I credit this to bed defense rather than an outstanding run. RG3 gets some credit for making Sanford think he was slower than he really was. I still like sliced bread better than RG3.

We did nothing to make the Skins worried about us going deep. We don't scare anyone. We did try at least one over the top, and we got a PI on that one. Other than that, I don't remember a long ball. This is part of the reason why their ears were pinned back.

I am not sure if Simpson is the answer to the deep ball or not, I think it is the willingness to throw deep more than the player, therefore I think it is the QB's desire to not make mistakes and may not trust the guys that were out there this weekend. We will see once Simpson gets back.

We need to hold our own at home and beat either the Bears or GB on their turf and we will be fine.

snowinapril
10-15-2012, 04:32 PM
Sometimes I get killed for this, but is Ponder our future QB. Here is a list of starting QB's in either their first or second year. I may have missed some? Where would you rank Ponder? May not be fair because some of these guys were taken early, but not all.

Andrew Luck, Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blane Gabbert, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder

It is difficult to say, Cam is having a tough time this season for whatever reason. He is not as hot as last year. Weedon and Tannehill have sad some impressive games but seem to have played from behind to get the numbers they have put up so far. I haven't really seen enough out of Locker or Gabbert. Wilson, RG3 and Ponder seem to be committed to not making mistakes and taking what is given to them. I really like what I have seen from Luck up to this week against the Jets. RG3 has played awesome, but for all we know, he could end up like Cam next year the sophomore slump.

I like Ponder so far. I wish we were able to go vertical more often but I am pretty sure that is not the main tool in our OC's toolbag.

Passing Stats
Christian Ponder Stats - Minnesota Vikings - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13966/christian-ponder)

Nearly a 70% completion rate with a 94 QB rating. And he looks light years ahead of last year in this offense.

snowinapril
10-15-2012, 04:46 PM
It seemed like we just weren't very well prepared and didn't make good adjustments. I wasn't really impressed with RG3. I thought he was supposed to be a traditional pocket passer who could take off and run, but they just ran a college offense. I don't think he had to make a single read the entire game.
That said, we got beat by that college offense, badly. I could see getting thrown off by it for a couple drives, but we need to be able to adjust for that. I haven't watched a Skins game this season, had they been running that offense all year? If so, we really didn't look very prepared.


I thought the same. Did we over think this as a defense? We may have been better off playing a prevent D. Oh well, next game.

To those that aren't sarcastically talking about trading players but are actually concerned about this team going bust........ Again as for all the complaining about one loss the thing to remember is not to get complacent with the loss and to remember to build momentum into the playoffs. The Giants the two recent years they won the SB weren't impressive all the way through the season, they gathered momentum and consistency at the end of the season. Let's show some improvement going forward. Let's hope for improvement, we all know a season is filled with ups and downs unless you are the Patriots. Seriously, Bellichick and Brady probably were discussing how they won that game yesterday (the Hawks won that game, coach and qb are to stubborn to believe they lost or they are just good at focusing on the next game and not dwelling on the past).

marshallvike
10-15-2012, 05:46 PM
I thought the same. Did we over think this as a defense? We may have been better off playing a prevent D. Oh well, next game.

To those that aren't sarcastically talking about trading players but are actually concerned about this team going bust........ Again as for all the complaining about one loss the thing to remember is not to get complacent with the loss and to remember to build momentum into the playoffs. The Giants the two recent years they won the SB weren't impressive all the way through the season, they gathered momentum and consistency at the end of the season. Let's show some improvement going forward. Let's hope for improvement, we all know a season is filled with ups and downs unless you are the Patriots. Seriously, Bellichick and Brady probably were discussing how they won that game yesterday (the Hawks won that game, coach and qb are to stubborn to believe they lost or they are just good at focusing on the next game and not dwelling on the past).

Allright. I have waited almost an hour and nobody has done it yet. I can't help myself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk

thorshammer
10-15-2012, 05:54 PM
I think what killed me most was that we seemed ill prepared to deal with that college offense. Secondly the Deadskins played with more intensity. Kind of pissed me off that we weren't more intense. I would have thought the team would like to be 5 and 1. Looked like it didn't kick in until the fourth quarter when it was too late. I guess it was an off game. Hope it doesn't happen to often.

NDVikingFan66
10-15-2012, 09:43 PM
I hate to say this, but I am beginning to think we should consider bringing in Plax. Deep threat and red zone target.

VKG4LFE
10-15-2012, 10:11 PM
Not a bad idea NDvikingfan, we need something to keep those safeties out of the box. On another note, thank God we aren't going to play another QB as dynamic as RG3, at least movement wise.

singersp
10-16-2012, 05:29 AM
Whether people like it or not we are still a young team and so will make mistakes that goes with that territory. The most obvious issue was the absence of Simpson which took away any deep threat we may have had - the other WRs currently on the field are average at best and so meant the 'skins could almost discard defending deeply.
Ponder made a couple of errors but did his best to pull us back, but given our first three possessions only yielded FGs then it was always going to be hard. I'm sorry we lost but, IMO, we played better than the score suggests.

While we are young & a young team will make mistakes, the "we're young" excuse only goes so far. Ponder's in his 2nd year while we got torched by a rookie QB who was starting his 6th game, Most of our playmakers have been around long enough, with only a few rookie starters. We can't be using the "young" angle on players like AD, Harvin, JA, Winfield, Robison, K-Will, Winfield, Greenway, Henderson, Jenkins, Aromashodu, Johnson, etc.

We saw good play out of our rookies & young players before, so it's not unreasonable to believe they can't play at that level for more than a couple of weeks. They also need to be put into the position to be able to succeed. That's where coaching, their game plan & their ability to get the team prepared for the game can shoulder some of the blame.

NodakPaul
10-16-2012, 08:13 AM
While we are young & a young team will make mistakes, the "we're young" excuse only goes so far. Ponder's in his 2nd year while we got torched by a rookie QB who was starting his 6th game, Most of our playmakers have been around long enough, with only a few rookie starters. We can't be using the "young" angle on players like AD, Harvin, JA, Winfield, Robison, K-Will, Winfield, Greenway, Henderson, Jenkins, Aromashodu, Johnson, etc.

We saw good play out of our rookies & young players before, so it's not unreasonable to believe they can't play at that level for more than a couple of weeks. They also need to be put into the position to be able to succeed. That's where coaching, their game plan & their ability to get the team prepared for the game can shoulder some of the blame.

You are right that being a young team doesn't excuse the loss. It is a factor in it though, especially when we a lot of players who are either in their first or second year or starting at a new position. It is a team effort, and young players definitely affect the whole team. Even our coaching staff can be considered young by NFL standards, and yes - they made some mistakes too. I am disappointed in the mistakes, but not surprised by them. They will iron those mistakes out as time goes on.

Minniman
10-16-2012, 09:55 AM
first off.. heartbreaking loss. i've read a lot of BS around (and in this thread), people need to be reminded that we are, one of the youngest teams, rebuilding, under new coaching staff, coming off a 3 win season, and every expert in the world picked the vikes to finish in the bottom 5 of the nfl.
The Vikings played poorly but were 4-2 to start the Childress regime. They ended up 6-10. The Vikings have played through the easy part of the schedule, on paper, and they have shown they are not the worst team in the NFL, but beyond that, they have shown little else different from last season.


as fans, sure we get over hyped, read story-lines, react to each others posts.. but that does not change the fact that there is a LOT of work to be done for the vikes to be a consistent force in the nfl.
I agree. There is much to be done.


so the redskins... man. i was stocked in the first qtr.. dad was laughing the world was in sync. AP was running, PH was receiving, and Ponder was working well. then we hit the RZ.. i think we're still trying to find some identity there, as it seems we don't have a set plan of attack. I expect this and penalties to be a big focus for the coaches this week. if we converted 1 or 2 of those 3 fg's into td's.. this game woulda been so much different.
I agree. The Vikings just do not get it when it comes to statistics. They push low percentage plays in the redzone so often that I have to believe Musgrave does not understand why statistics and sabermetrics are so valuable in play calling and game analysis.

Playing it safe in the redzone belies the fact that a touchdown with the kick is worth more than two field goals. A team that scores only TDs in the redzone at a low 50% rate are better off than teams that score only field goals at a 100% rate. Playing it safe is to keep from losing the three points in hand is a loser's bet. There are times when the field goal try is a must, but playing in fear for the potential loss of a field goal does not make statistical sense.


RGIII ... that cocky attitude along with the ref's babying him.. (ie Henderson's roughing the qb?) I've seen farts push people more.. (yes there was a lot of bad ref calls, but I've said it before and i stand by it. refs do not win/loose games.. if you put yourself in that position, you deserve it).
Refs can and do win and lose games. If they did not, who would really have cared about the officials going out on strike. With two evenly matched teams, the refs can make all of the difference in a game. They certainly did in the Vikings/Saints NFCC game.


... hit the qb a lot more then we did
I would have used a modified 46 defense with him. Overload, run-blitz, and stuff the hot receiver at the line. Sitting back is not a good defense against a mobile quarterback unless the defense likes to see five yard gains on the ground time and time again.


Ponder ... I seemed to notice that in the RZ ponder is missing because he focus's on one receiver. i thought i saw a few open receivers, @ least more open then his target.
I did see ponder go through his progressions to the third receiver a few times against Washington. The problem is that the receivers have easy routes to cover and are not threats to take it deep. I wonder how much Ponder loses on accuracy when throwing the deep ball, and I suspect defensive coordinators do to. Expect to see eight or more defenders in the box or playing short until the Vikings prove they can go deep. Expect more blitzes too because the Vikings do not know how to max protect.



we desperately need an outside receiver, and RZ target besides PH and Rudy.. by the way.. how often do you see Rudy drop passes? gonna happen, no man can catch 100% of the time.
How the Vikings can field a team with one receiver that would not be bench material on most other teams is beyond me. Then again, some of the routes these guys are given to run are just sad to watch. Having a receiver go to a short spot in the flats and stop when the defense is playing up is a waste of a player. Yeah, Percy Harvin can make the defender miss, but it is a low percentage pattern to be sure.

mountainviking
10-16-2012, 10:28 AM
I did see ponder go through his progressions to the third receiver a few times against Washington. The problem is that the receivers have easy routes to cover and are not threats to take it deep. I wonder how much Ponder loses on accuracy when throwing the deep ball, and I suspect defensive coordinators do to. Expect to see eight or more defenders in the box or playing short until the Vikings prove they can go deep. Expect more blitzes too because the Vikings do not know how to max protect.

How the Vikings can field a team with one receiver that would not be bench material on most other teams is beyond me.


But which came first, the chicken or the egg? IF we had a WR who could run a downfield route, I think we might run that route more...a true no.1 and/or deep-threat WR is still our biggest gaping hole. We start hitting some long passes, and everybody else will look even better as space starts opening up for our underneath routes. IF we don't find some sort of deep action, we will start seeing even more of the same lane clogging zone blitz that has been our downfall for years.

The defense actually started out really good, weren't we up 9-0, ie 3 stops on their first 3 drives? When the offense regularly stalls out, the defense spends more time on the field, and you give a guy like RG3 enough oppurtunities, eventually, one is going to break it big. I'm not saying they don't shoulder any of the blame, just that their performance is obviously effected by the rest of the teams.

NodakPaul
10-16-2012, 11:50 AM
The Vikings played poorly but were 4-2 to start the Childress regime. They ended up 6-10.

lol. Oh sure you HAD to bring that up. pbbbfffftttt!






I thought about that a couple of weeks ago, but I was keeping quiet so I didn't pour fuel on the negative nancy fires. ;) Although to be fair, that is a stat that you can put both ways. We've seen teams start 4-2 and end up 14-2. We've also seen teams start 4-2 and end up 4-12. But the MAJORITY of teams that start 4-2 finish the season with a winning record, which is what I am hoping for this year. Note, I have changed my season expectation from 6-10 at the beginning of the season to 9-7. It may sound crazy, but we only have to win half of the remaining games to do it, and I think it may be possible.

i_bleed_purple
10-16-2012, 12:05 PM
While we are young & a young team will make mistakes, the "we're young" excuse only goes so far. Ponder's in his 2nd year while we got torched by a rookie QB who was starting his 6th game, Most of our playmakers have been around long enough, with only a few rookie starters. We can't be using the "young" angle on players like AD, Harvin, JA, Winfield, Robison, K-Will, Winfield, Greenway, Henderson, Jenkins, Aromashodu, Johnson, etc.

I'd like to point out that the rookie qb starting his 6th game also leads the league in completion percentage. Yeah, he's a rookie, but with no tape on him, teams will take a while to learn to slow him down. Same with Luck, same with Newton last year. Been the same story for a long time now. He's a talented kid, and thank god we don't play any other teams with a qb like him. I'd take Tom brady any day over RGIII right now. We just aren't built to stop him. We bit all day on the play fakes, he turned nothing into something. He's just got the physical talent to do that.


We saw good play out of our rookies & young players before, so it's not unreasonable to believe they can't play at that level for more than a couple of weeks. They also need to be put into the position to be able to succeed. That's where coaching, their game plan & their ability to get the team prepared for the game can shoulder some of the blame.

What we're forgetting is Washington played a good game. It's not like we just shit the bed. We started alright, then slowed down. Washington was playing disciplined. Not letting Harvin get loose on the back end or underneath. Not letting AP explode, Getting turnovers and points. THey got behind, but rallied and won. GOod for them, we need to work on that.

mountainviking
10-16-2012, 12:08 PM
lol. Oh sure you HAD to bring that up. pbbbfffftttt!

I thought about that a couple of weeks ago, but I was keeping quiet so I didn't pour fuel on the negative nancy fires. ;) Although to be fair, that is a stat that you can put both ways. We've seen teams start 4-2 and end up 14-2. We've also seen teams start 4-2 and end up 4-12. But the MAJORITY of teams that start 4-2 finish the season with a winning record, which is what I am hoping for this year. Note, I have changed my season expectation from 6-10 at the beginning of the season to 9-7. It may sound crazy, but we only have to win half of the remaining games to do it, and I think it may be possible.

I'd love to see us end up with a winning record! BUT, I also won't mind if we stop just short at 7-9. Thing is, you see, 7-9 puts us at pick 11 or 12ish, while 9-7 likely brings us up into the 20s!!

I don't think we're quite there as a playoff team, but closer than advertised, and that one more really good draft to fill the few remaining holes and upgrade depth just might put us over the top, or at least make us a legit playoff contender next season.

SKOL VIKINGS!!!

NodakPaul
10-16-2012, 12:40 PM
I'd love to see us end up with a winning record! BUT, I also won't mind if we stop just short at 7-9. Thing is, you see, 7-9 puts us at pick 11 or 12ish, while 9-7 likely brings us up into the 20s!!

I don't think we're quite there as a playoff team, but closer than advertised, and that one more really good draft to fill the few remaining holes and upgrade depth just might put us over the top, or at least make us a legit playoff contender next season.

SKOL VIKINGS!!!

No arguments here! :)

thorshammer
10-16-2012, 01:07 PM
I still think the hold on Greenway on RGlll's late touchdown was a game deciding blown call. Pisses me off. I don't think the sky is falling but we sure were off of our game. I hope that when Simpson is back we can loosen up the opposing D's so that AD can get going. That's what was missing in the Deadskins game.

NodakPaul
10-16-2012, 04:35 PM
I still think the hold on Greenway on RGlll's late touchdown was a game deciding blown call. Pisses me off. I don't think the sky is falling but we sure were off of our game. I hope that when Simpson is back we can loosen up the opposing D's so that AD can get going. That's what was missing in the Deadskins game.

If we had done our job on the field up to that point, one blown call couldn't have affected the game one way or the other.

Simpson being healthy should help our short game a bit, but I think we will see it more in Harvin and Rudolph. Unless AD gets back on his game, Simpson won't help. I hope his ankle is healed up by Sunday.

tastywaves
10-16-2012, 05:14 PM
Sometimes I get killed for this, but is Ponder our future QB. Here is a list of starting QB's in either their first or second year. I may have missed some? Where would you rank Ponder? May not be fair because some of these guys were taken early, but not all.

Andrew Luck, Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blane Gabbert, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder

Hey CV, my thoughts on Ponder are very similar to Snow's.

If I were to rank the QB's you listed by how I think they will pan out long term based on what I've seen today, I would take this stab at it.

1) Luck -- this guy just has too much going for him both physically and mentally.
2) RG3 -- His legs are allowing him a lot of his early success, but his head and his arm will give him longevity.
3) Cam -- Personally, I'm not sold on him long term, but can't refute his last year's success. He will probably fizzle out faster than the next two guys.
4/5) Dalton/Ponder -- I see these guys as similar level QB's.

The rest I simply haven't seen enough to have much of an opinion on, but I wouldn't take any of them over Ponder if I was given the choice today.

singersp
10-17-2012, 05:42 AM
I'd like to point out that the rookie qb starting his 6th game also leads the league in completion percentage. Yeah, he's a rookie, but with no tape on him, teams will take a while to learn to slow him down. Same with Luck, same with Newton last year. Been the same story for a long time now. He's a talented kid, and thank god we don't play any other teams with a qb like him. I'd take Tom brady any day over RGIII right now. We just aren't built to stop him. We bit all day on the play fakes, he turned nothing into something. He's just got the physical talent to do that.


What we're forgetting is Washington played a good game. It's not like we just shit the bed. We started alright, then slowed down. Washington was playing disciplined. Not letting Harvin get loose on the back end or underneath. Not letting AP explode, Getting turnovers and points. THey got behind, but rallied and won. GOod for them, we need to work on that.

Going into that game Ponder & RGIII were pretty much neck & neck on completion %, so it's not like they had some huge advantage over us.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Washington also has 3 losses & only 2 wins going into that game so apparently 3 of the 5 teams playing them, were apparently built in such a way that they did stop him despite having little tape on him.

We did take a shit on defense, IMO. We went from playing an "in your face smash mouth defense" a week ago, to giving huge cushions and allowing them the "underneath stuff" far too often in that game. RGIII took advantage of that underneath stuff all the way to the endzone.

Let's also not forget that while the Redskins did play a good game, it was 2 of our 3 turnovers that gave them an almost immediate 14 points.

singersp
10-17-2012, 05:52 AM
Simpson being healthy should help our short game a bit, but I think we will see it more in Harvin and Rudolph. Unless AD gets back on his game, Simpson won't help. I hope his ankle is healed up by Sunday.

AD definitely has to get back into the game. He hasn't scored a TD since week 1 of the season & that speed which used to leave defenders in the dust all the way to the endzone, now has slowed enough where defenders can catch up to him & drag him down from behind.

Minniman
10-17-2012, 08:50 AM
I still think the hold on Greenway on RGlll's late touchdown was a game deciding blown call. Pisses me off. I don't think the sky is falling but we sure were off of our game. I hope that when Simpson is back we can loosen up the opposing D's so that AD can get going. That's what was missing in the Deadskins game.
If we had done our job on the field up to that point, one blown call couldn't have affected the game one way or the other.
I believe it could have. Teams in the NFL, especially middle of the road teams, are evenly matched. One big play or one turnover can decide the game. One big call or non-call can as well.

It is valid to state, "If the Vikings had a 21 point lead at the time, they would not have had to worry too much about a blown call," but to believe they will be up by 21 points late in the game against an evenly matched team is wishful thinking. It is not going to happen often.

On the other hand, I agree that if the players and coaches had done their jobs on that play, then the gain could have been mitigated. I did not see much contain and or turning the runner to the inside on that play. I did not see good angles from safeties and linebackers either. It was a basic breakdown of fundamental defensive football.

Mark_The_Viking
10-17-2012, 09:00 AM
I believe it could have. Teams in the NFL, especially middle of the road teams, are evenly matched. One big play or one turnover can decide the game. One big call or non-call can as well.

It is valid to state, "If the Vikings had a 21 point lead at the time, they would not have had to worry too much about a blown call," but to believe they will be up by 21 points late in the game against an evenly matched team is wishful thinking. It is not going to happen often.

On the other hand, I agree that if the players and coaches had done their jobs on that play, then the gain could have been mitigated. I did not see much contain and or turning the runner to the inside on that play. I did not see good angles from safeties and linebackers either. It was a basic breakdown of fundamental defensive football.

Surely if we had scored a touchdown on our first three possessions then a blown call wouldn't have mattered either. We get calls they get calls.

21 points up in the 1st quarter and they have to change their game plan and RGIII either has to commit every time and we nail him or he finds another outlet.

NodakPaul
10-17-2012, 09:01 AM
I believe it could have. Teams in the NFL, especially middle of the road teams, are evenly matched. One big play or one turnover can decide the game. One big call or non-call can as well.

It is valid to state, "If the Vikings had a 21 point lead at the time, they would not have had to worry too much about a blown call," but to believe they will be up by 21 points late in the game against an evenly matched team is wishful thinking. It is not going to happen often.

On the other hand, I agree that if the players and coaches had done their jobs on that play, then the gain could have been mitigated. I did not see much contain and or turning the runner to the inside on that play. I did not see good angles from safeties and linebackers either. It was a basic breakdown of fundamental defensive football.

Yeah, there was a lot of mistakes on the run. Robinson (who I am a big fan of) completely bit on RGIII's inside juke, and he let him get to the outside. Once he was running on the sideline nobody had the angle to catch him.

Hopefully it is a teaching moment for our young secondary.

Minniman
10-17-2012, 09:08 AM
Yeah, there was a lot of mistakes on the run. Robinson (who I am a big fan of) completely bit on RGIII's inside juke, and he let him get to the outside. Once he was running on the sideline nobody had the angle to catch him.
To be fair, Robinson did have a blocker on him, but he should know that it is his job to maintain position to turn the runner inside rather than go for an inside juke many yards downfield.


Hopefully it is a teaching moment for our young secondary.
Let us hope so for players and coaches as well.

Purple Floyd
10-17-2012, 05:28 PM
Yeah, there was a lot of mistakes on the run. Robinson (who I am a big fan of) completely bit on RGIII's inside juke, and he let him get to the outside. Once he was running on the sideline nobody had the angle to catch him.

Hopefully it is a teaching moment for our young secondary.

There was a blatant hold on Everson that turned him and prevented him from making the tackle at the LOS that would have negated the play.

PackSux!
10-17-2012, 05:34 PM
There was a blatant hold on Everson that turned him and prevented him from making the tackle at the LOS that would have negated the play.

Good eyes. The old officials are not doing any better of a job then the replacements in my opinion. Alot of blown and missed calls all around the league.

Purple Floyd
10-17-2012, 05:42 PM
Good eyes. The old officials are not doing any better of a job then the replacements in my opinion. Alot of blown and missed calls all around the league.

Funny thing is I didn't see it during the game because I was Pheasant hunting but on the highlight footage all over ESPN and NFLN it shows up plain as day but neither network or their empty heads even make a mention of that fact, they just proclaim it was an incredible play.

Now, if that would have happened to the Packers to cost them a game Carl Gerbschmidt would have been in front of NFL HQ in NY the next morning with a loudspeaker calling for the ref's heads and PFT would have been all over the reaction from GayRod.

singersp
10-17-2012, 06:06 PM
Funny thing is I didn't see it during the game because I was Pheasant hunting but on the highlight footage all over ESPN and NFLN it shows up plain as day but neither network or their empty heads even make a mention of that fact, they just proclaim it was an incredible play.

Now, if that would have happened to the Packers to cost them a game Carl Gerbschmidt would have been in front of NFL HQ in NY the next morning with a loudspeaker calling for the ref's heads and PFT would have been all over the reaction from GayRod.


...and Rodgers would have been pouting in front of the cameras again, apologizing to the fans for the ineptness of the refs.