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Webby
08-24-2012, 08:26 PM
Offense is nothing special for few series...

who's nervous?!
lol

NodakPaul
08-24-2012, 10:08 PM
EDIT: First half thoughts and stats...

Ponder made some decent throws, but it is glaringly clear that we need Simpson in there to spread out the defense. The WRs were very underwhelming.

Ponder made some good reads, put the ball deep a couple of times. But he also made a couple of bad decisions - the INT was horrible, and he took at least one sack that he didn't need to. 8/15 is not acceptable. Ponder does NOT get a passing grade this game.

Interesting stat - Ponder was 6/9 on first and second downs - pretty close to his stated goal. Unfortunately he was 2/6 on third downs, and that killed up. He also took three sacks on first or second down.

I also noticed that out of the 8 third downs we had, 6 of them were long - 9 yards or more. That is exactly the situation we DO NOT want to be in.

The OL was playing well. Kalil got owned once, but other than that he and the rest of the line looked good and Ponder had all day.

NodakPaul
08-24-2012, 10:11 PM
I am LOVING Walsh's leg on Kickoffs. Every one is in the endzone. That first FG miss was his fault though, he pulled it left.

NodakPaul
08-24-2012, 10:24 PM
HORRIBLE CALL.

There is no way that was pass interference on Jones.

rednorsk
08-24-2012, 10:49 PM
Four fumbles and an interception. That's not how you win games. The only thing worse is Paul Allen and Pete Bersich.

midgensa
08-24-2012, 11:40 PM
I am LOVING Walsh's leg on Kickoffs. Every one is in the endzone. That first FG miss was his fault though, he pulled it left.

Definitely think this kid was a solid move.

He has a big leg ... and his accuracy has been fairly good so far. I think we are going to be happy with him.

midgensa
08-24-2012, 11:43 PM
EDIT: First half thoughts and stats...

Ponder made some decent throws, but it is glaringly clear that we need Simpson in there to spread out the defense. The WRs were very underwhelming.

Ponder made some good reads, put the ball deep a couple of times. But he also made a couple of bad decisions - the INT was horrible, and he took at least one sack that he didn't need to. 8/15 is not acceptable. Ponder does NOT get a passing grade this game.

Interesting stat - Ponder was 6/9 on first and second downs - pretty close to his stated goal. Unfortunately he was 2/6 on third downs, and that killed up. He also took three sacks on first or second down.

I also noticed that out of the 8 third downs we had, 6 of them were long - 9 yards or more. That is exactly the situation we DO NOT want to be in.

The OL was playing well. Kalil got owned once, but other than that he and the rest of the line looked good and Ponder had all day.


Also ... to be fair ... his numbers change greatly if not for a weird drop by Percy.

On the INT ... I don't know what happened, but it looked more like a miscommunication between he and the receiver than a bad throw. Looks like he thought his guy would be there. Could be 100 percent his fault, but I will take that over just making a bad throw any day.

All in all I was pretty happy. He took too many sacks, but also showed poise for someone who was getting hit quite a bit.

Percy has to be Super Man while Simpson is out. But things will change greatly with Peterson on the field ... at least until he looks half speed (if he does).

I think we will have a puncher's chance in most games.

jargomcfargo
08-24-2012, 11:51 PM
Better get used to it. Up and down is what we will see from a rebuilding team. Training camp was up and down, just like the pre-season.
This team is bad enough to only win 3 games again, but I think they will have times when they look very good when not expected to.
I think they win 5 this year and next year may have a chance to contend once again.
One other observation. So far it seems that Ponder can't right the ship when it starts listing.
A franchise QB finds a way to turn it arounds after a few bad series. Ponder is still learning.

Dibbzz
08-25-2012, 12:02 AM
We are going to be bad this year :(

vikinggreg
08-25-2012, 01:06 AM
Better get used to it. Up and down is what we will see from a rebuilding team. Training camp was up and down, just like the pre-season.
This team is bad enough to only win 3 games again, but I think they will have times when they look very good when not expected to.
I think they win 5 this year and next year may have a chance to contend once again.
One other observation. So far it seems that Ponder can't right the ship when it starts listing.
A franchise QB finds a way to turn it arounds after a few bad series. Ponder is still learning.

This team is a couple of Ponder turnovers and a few key Blair missed field goals and that 5 win season turns to 3 wins, roll into that Simpson missing the early games and Peterson recovery that 5 wins looks even harder and even going 1-5 in their own division could be tough. The team could grow to be more of a contender next year but I'm thinking there will be some heads rolling and that could upset any continuity the team develops this year. If Frazier is one of the heads I hope there is a serious upgrade in his replacement but worry it will be a Spielman appointment leading to another few years of sub 500 season before there is a serious rebuild.

Hoping I'm wrong

NodakPaul
08-25-2012, 09:24 AM
This team is a couple of Ponder turnovers and a few key Blair missed field goals and that 5 win season turns to 3 wins, roll into that Simpson missing the early games and Peterson recovery that 5 wins looks even harder and even going 1-5 in their own division could be tough. The team could grow to be more of a contender next year but I'm thinking there will be some heads rolling and that could upset any continuity the team develops this year. If Frazier is one of the heads I hope there is a serious upgrade in his replacement but worry it will be a Spielman appointment leading to another few years of sub 500 season before there is a serious rebuild.

Hoping I'm wrong

The team is also a couple of Harvin non-drops and a couple of good holds on FGs (Bills game, not yesterday) from those 5 wins becoming 7 wins. It works both ways. I am not worried yet, and I still think that we are going to be in that 6 win range, give or take a game.

On a bright side, Webb looked great. I don't think he could have played any better. So did Sage. Makes me feel a little better about the backup QB situation.

vikinggreg
08-25-2012, 10:24 AM
The team is also a couple of Harvin non-drops and a couple of good holds on FGs (Bills game, not yesterday) from those 5 wins becoming 7 wins. It works both ways. I am not worried yet, and I still think that we are going to be in that 6 win range, give or take a game.

On a bright side, Webb looked great. I don't think he could have played any better. So did Sage. Makes me feel a little better about the backup QB situation.

I'd say that would be true more so of a team that was 1-2 players away from being a playoff contender, the Vikings are young with several thin areas this isn't just about a QB. To me this is looking like a offense that scores field goals but a defense that gives up TD's not totally base on lastnight just in general.

Randy Moss
08-25-2012, 11:26 AM
It was nice to see some deep balls. Ponder's throws down field were right on the money. The two to Percy were things of beauty. Jenkins had a drop on the first drive that really hurt us. Even though it wasn't a good game and than pick was awful, Ponder looked pretty accurate despite his poor completion percentage.

singersp
08-25-2012, 11:47 AM
1. Chris Carr isn't as advertised. Another Spielman decision gone bad.
2. Resigning Jenkins, another mistake. What a disgrace to the #84 jersey.

singersp
08-25-2012, 12:03 PM
I am LOVING Walsh's leg on Kickoffs. Every one is in the endzone. That first FG miss was his fault though, he pulled it left.


Definitely think this kid was a solid move.

He has a big leg ... and his accuracy has been fairly good so far. I think we are going to be happy with him.

As long as he is kicking on kickoffs & FG's of 40 yards or less.

On FG's of greater than 40 yards, he's only 2 of 4 & that isn't impressive. We'll have to see what he can do in the regular season on long range FG's & how he kicks in the clutch with game winning kicks on the line with seconds to go.

With our offense, I think we're going to need it.

singersp
08-25-2012, 12:04 PM
Asiata & Cole continue to show play better than expected.

NordicNed
08-25-2012, 12:38 PM
As long as he is kicking on kickoffs & FG's of 40 yards or less.

On FG's of greater than 40 yards, he's only 2 of 4 & that isn't impressive. We'll have to see what he can do on long range FG's & how he kicks in the clutch with game winning kicks on the line with seconds to go.

With our offense, I think we're going to need it.

I don't always have all the answers, but I believe he's probably dealing with a good case of the butterflies this pre-season. Fact, he does have one hell of a kickoff, something we gain from right off the get go...
As for field goals, I also beleive as he calms down ( remember he's a rookie also, just like all other positions, kicker rookies can start a bit slow also in the season. Just watch for when he starts to fit in and calm down, those 40's you mention are going to turn out to be routine 50's to 60's, just watch and see. Therefore, with those positive feelings of calmness and confidence, those game winning presure kicks will also come to him.... I'de like to point out the fact that in camp, which I'm sure was a lot less of a presure cooker atmosphere for him, he was kicking those kick as kickoffs and he was constanly kicking those 50 plus yarders with ease. I'm sure where going to see the same production from him on gamedays. I trust in this kid so much, I've been taking him in many of my FF Team Drafts, I'm sure he will more than hold his own in points gained for my team, via that wonderfull leg of his.......Gotta keep the faith my purple pal.... :)

Note: I don't have the numbers in front of me now, or the story, but not very long ago I did a search on Longwell. Trust me when I say this, it looked to me like his rookie season was nothing to write home about, and his case of butterflies was more like a case of Killer Moths....... :rofl:

NordicNed
08-25-2012, 12:47 PM
Asiata & Cole continue to show play better than expected.

I'll definetly back your statement on these two. I was espeicaly impressed with Asiata! Who was that RB who fumbled last night? I'm sure it was the first half. All I want to say is unimpressed and for me, you can fire him now and hire Asiata......Cole could be our Chadway of the future.... Fingers Crossed. I believe both make the team..

marstc09
08-25-2012, 02:57 PM
I am LOVING Walsh's leg on Kickoffs. Every one is in the endzone. That first FG miss was his fault though, he pulled it left.

Any guy with a leg can do that. Nothing special. The missed FGs are a MAJOR concern! Not to mention it is indoors.

marstc09
08-25-2012, 03:06 PM
There is some yutz who rips on Fred Evans. He was so good last night that they started to double team him. Like I have been saying for years, he is a great backup and there is no concern at DT. Great pressure last night.

kevoncox
08-25-2012, 03:07 PM
The more I watch these pre season games, the more I realize that were really REACHED on Ponder @ #12. We have 3rd and 5th rounders out playing him by a wide margin. He is being out played by this year's rookies as well. I know he get's the Homer vote because he is our QB but....Would you rate him higher than Wilson or Folkes at this point. That INT was brutal. Several of the sacks he took last night, he failed to locate his check down back who was wide open.

kevoncox
08-25-2012, 03:12 PM
There is some yutz who rips on Fred Evans. He was so good last night that they started to double team him. Like I have been saying for years, he is a great backup and there is no concern at DT. Great pressure last night.

Evans = Good Backup
Evans = Bad Starter

marstc09
08-25-2012, 03:18 PM
Asiata & Cole continue to show play better than expected.

I'll definetly back your statement on these two. I was espeicaly impressed with Asiata! Who was that RB who fumbled last night? I'm sure it was the first half. All I want to say is unimpressed and for me, you can fire him now and hire Asiata......Cole could be our Chadway of the future.... Fingers Crossed. I believe both make the team..

Lex Hilliard

vikinggreg
08-25-2012, 03:30 PM
There is some yutz who rips on Fred Evans. He was so good last night that they started to double team him. Like I have been saying for years, he is a great backup and there is no concern at DT. Great pressure last night.

Chargers were missing 3 starters on their Oline, they started their 3rd string center, and Charlie Whitehurst. That isn't going to be something the Vikings are going to see during the regular season.

marstc09
08-25-2012, 03:37 PM
There is some yutz who rips on Fred Evans. He was so good last night that they started to double team him. Like I have been saying for years, he is a great backup and there is no concern at DT. Great pressure last night.
Chargers were missing 3 starters on their Oline, they started their 3rd string center, and Charlie Whitehurst. That isn't going to be something the Vikings are going to see during the regular season.
To say that the success does not matter is silly. Evans is a backup playing against backups and he played well.

NordicNed
08-25-2012, 03:45 PM
Any guy with a leg can do that. Nothing special. The missed FGs are a MAJOR concern! Not to mention it is indoors.

Marstc, PM sent your way...Ned

marstc09
08-25-2012, 04:05 PM
The more I watch these pre season games, the more I realize that were really REACHED on Ponder @ #12. We have 3rd and 5th rounders out playing him by a wide margin. He is being out played by this year's rookies as well. I know he get's the Homer vote because he is our QB but....Would you rate him higher than Wilson or Folkes at this point. That INT was brutal. Several of the sacks he took last night, he failed to locate his check down back who was wide open.

I wanted to draft Wilson.

I think it is unfair to judge Ponder until he plays with Peterson and Simpson together.

kevoncox
08-25-2012, 08:07 PM
I wanted to draft Wilson.

I think it is unfair to judge Ponder until he plays with Peterson and Simpson together.

Having Peterson won't keep him from missing reads and throwing horrible INTs.

TheAnimal93
08-25-2012, 08:53 PM
I said earlier in the year that this team will go as far as the coaches take them. Will the staff be able to recognize and build upon the best that players have to offer? How quickly they can do this will determine whether the Vikings will have to overhaul year after year or not.
So dont put wrapping and a bow on how this is the Vikings will be. Yet.
I am sitting here right now watching the Saints/Texans game. 2 Favorites to go all the way. Turnovers everywhere. Touchdowns in a fury. This game of football is the best live reality show/ drama on the TV. You never know which way the football will bounce. I am crossing my fingers that there will be many favorable bounces for the Vikings this year.

marstc09
08-26-2012, 12:28 AM
I wanted to draft Wilson.

I think it is unfair to judge Ponder until he plays with Peterson and Simpson together.

Having Peterson won't keep him from missing reads and throwing horrible INTs.

So one INT is the preseason is judging a QB now? That is laughable.

highdesertvike
08-26-2012, 01:04 AM
Yes, because that's what we do, apparently. Base the season on the bad things, and disregard the good things because, well, it's just preseason...right?

:petersaysowsmall:

gregair13
08-26-2012, 02:12 AM
We suck. Cannot even score against the sieve Chargers defence.

NodakPaul
08-26-2012, 08:27 AM
Any guy with a leg can do that. Nothing special. The missed FGs are a MAJOR concern! Not to mention it is indoors.

Any guy with a leg can NOT do that. Longwell certainly couldn't. The first missed FG was a horrible snap, although his miss on Friday was his fault.

Regardless of a missed FG, we are still in better shape than we were last year.

NodakPaul
08-26-2012, 08:32 AM
The more I watch these pre season games, the more I realize that were really REACHED on Ponder @ #12. We have 3rd and 5th rounders out playing him by a wide margin. He is being out played by this year's rookies as well. I know he get's the Homer vote because he is our QB but....Would you rate him higher than Wilson or Folkes at this point. That INT was brutal. Several of the sacks he took last night, he failed to locate his check down back who was wide open.

Oh bullshit. What 3rd and 5th rounders are out playing him by a wide margin? Yes, I would rate him higher than both Wilson and Folkes. He may get some homer votes from people here, but that is ridiculous. He failed to find the open checkdown on ONE sack last night. One was a good coverage sack, and the other was a speed rush that Kalil completely missed on. The INT, I agree, was brutal.

Take off the anti-Spielman shades. You are missing the game. 3rd and 5th Rounders? Seriously? That is so far off base it is sad.

Zeus
08-26-2012, 09:23 AM
1. Chris Carr isn't as advertised. Another Spielman decision gone bad.
2. Resigning Jenkins, another mistake. What a disgrace to the #84 jersey.

Carr wasn't signed to be the starter.

And Jenkins was NOT re-signed. He actually took a pay cut to stay on the team.

=Z=

Zeus
08-26-2012, 09:26 AM
yes, because that's what we do, apparently. Base the season on the bad things, and disregard the good things because, well, it's just preseason...right?

:petersaysowsmall:

+1

=z=

singersp
08-26-2012, 11:43 AM
Yes, because that's what we do, apparently. Base the season on the bad things, and disregard the good things because, well, it's just preseason...right?

:petersaysowsmall:


+1

=z=

Yes, because that's what we do, apparently. Base the season on the good things, and disregard the bad things because, well, it's just preseason...right?

singersp
08-26-2012, 11:57 AM
Carr wasn't signed to be the starter.

And Jenkins was NOT re-signed. He actually took a pay cut to stay on the team.

=Z=

Again, Chris Carr isn't as advertised.

Call it what you want regarding Jenkins. His contract was redone so he could remain on the team. Resigning a new contract is a resigning. If not for him taking a paycut, he would have been cut from the team, which speaks volumes on his lack of talent.

Keeping a bad player on your team simply because he'll work for peanuts is a poor move by Spielman. We need receivers in here that can get open AND catch the ball.

marstc09
08-26-2012, 12:35 PM
Any guy with a leg can do that. Nothing special. The missed FGs are a MAJOR concern! Not to mention it is indoors.

Any guy with a leg can NOT do that. Longwell certainly couldn't. The first missed FG was a horrible snap, although his miss on Friday was his fault.

Regardless of a missed FG, we are still in better shape than we were last year.

Yes Longwell could. Once they moved it up 5 yards he was kicking into the end zone. Any young leg should be able to do that consistently. He is nothing special if he can't get us points. Judging by the first semi real game, our kicker is going to be key. Make excuses all you want about bad snaps blah blah blah.....good kickers like Longwell made kicks on bad snaps!

NodakPaul
08-26-2012, 12:54 PM
Yes Longwell could. Once they moved it up 5 yards he was kicking into the end zone. Any young leg should be able to do that consistently. He is nothing special if he can't get us points. Judging by the first semi real game, our kicker is going to be key. Make excuses all you want about bad snaps blah blah blah.....good kickers like Longwell made kicks on bad snaps!

No, Longwell could not.

He had 77 kickoffs last year. 19 of them were touchbacks. His average kick went 64.8 yards through the air, which meant that his AVERAGE kickoff landed just shot of the endzone.

Walsh has had 15 kickoffs so far this preseason. 7 have been touchbacks. He averages 68 yards through the air, so his average kickoff lands 3 yards into the endzone.

Big difference.

Longwell was 22 for 28 last year on FGs. I strongly suspect that Walsh will be just as good, if not better.

kevoncox
08-26-2012, 01:33 PM
Oh bullshit. What 3rd and 5th rounders are out playing him by a wide margin? Yes, I would rate him higher than both Wilson and Folkes. He may get some homer votes from people here, but that is ridiculous. He failed to find the open checkdown on ONE sack last night. One was a good coverage sack, and the other was a speed rush that Kalil completely missed on. The INT, I agree, was brutal.

Take off the anti-Spielman shades. You are missing the game. 3rd and 5th Rounders? Seriously? That is so far off base it is sad.

You are correct, there wasn't a 5th rounder. He is a 4th rounder :clap:
Wilson- 4th rounder.
Ryan Mallett - 3rd rounder.
Nick Foles - 3rd rounder.

Only you would rate a QB that has lead his team on scores on 12 of his 18 drives below Ponder.

Ponder thru 3 games:
23 completions 38 attempts 61% 331 yards 1 TD 1 Int

Wilson:
35 completions 52 attempts 67% 464 yards 5tds 1int

Still he was drafted in the first round and is being out played by almost half of the Qbs drafted after him. I've seen enough to know that he will be a serviceable QB but will never lead us to the promise land. While others are growing he will plateau early. He lacks that IT factor, he just doesn't have IT. Trent Dilfer comes to mind.

marstc09
08-26-2012, 02:15 PM
Yes Longwell could. Once they moved it up 5 yards he was kicking into the end zone. Any young leg should be able to do that consistently. He is nothing special if he can't get us points. Judging by the first semi real game, our kicker is going to be key. Make excuses all you want about bad snaps blah blah blah.....good kickers like Longwell made kicks on bad snaps!

No, Longwell could not.

He had 77 kickoffs last year. 19 of them were touchbacks. His average kick went 64.8 yards through the air, which meant that his AVERAGE kickoff landed just shot of the endzone.

Walsh has had 15 kickoffs so far this preseason. 7 have been touchbacks. He averages 68 yards through the air, so his average kickoff lands 3 yards into the endzone.

Big difference.

Longwell was 22 for 28 last year on FGs. I strongly suspect that Walsh will be just as good, if not better.

Yes, he did. My eyes are just fine.

3 yards is a big difference?! That is laughable.

Longwell was not good last year but Blair is a concern. Period.

Young vs old and young is not impressing me.

MaxVike
08-26-2012, 02:43 PM
You are correct, there wasn't a 5th rounder. He is a 4th rounder :clap:
Kirk Cousins - 4th rounder.
Ryan Mallett - 3rd rounder.
Nick Foles - 3rd rounder.

Only you would rate a QB that has lead his team on scores on 12 of his 18 drives below Ponder.

Ponder thru 3 games:
23 completions 38 attempts 61% 331 yards 1 TD 1 Int

Cousin:
35 completions 52 attempts 67% 464 yards 5tds 1int

Still he was drafted in the first round and is being out played by almost half of the Qbs drafted after him. I've seen enough to know that he will be a serviceable QB but will never lead us to the promise land. While others are growing he will plateau early. He lacks that IT factor, he just doesn't have IT. Trent Dilfer comes to mind.

Kevon, get how you feel about Ponder...I don't share the same despair.

Comparisons at this point to Cousins and Foles are a little out there. First, Ponder is playing against #1 defenses, Cousins and Foles, #2 and #3...plus, they were drafted this year, Ponder last year, rendering the comparison about draft position even more irrelevant. Perhaps your point is that the Vikes should have drafted someone else #1 last year and followed with Mallett in the 2nd Round, which, is a much more relevant argument in my opinion. Picking #12 last year, the Vikes were in a bit of a tough spot...they needed a QB, so did Carolina (Newton), Tennessee (Locker), and Jax (Gabbert). That left the Vikes to choose (I'm convinced they were set on Locker) between Mallett, Ponder, Kaepernick, and Dalton. In my view, the comparison should be limited to them. So, Mallett and Kaepernick are backups and have not seen the field in the regular season, Dalton is an injury replacement Pro-Bowler (with AJ Green to throw to, I might add, another Pro-Bowler). There is no doubt, we need to see significant progress from Ponder...I'm not alarmed yet.

That notwithstanding, I like Cousins and Foles, particularly Cousins. And, I've always liked Russell Wilson...great kid, leader, and player. We shall see if it translates.

marstc09
08-26-2012, 02:49 PM
The more I watch these pre season games, the more I realize that were really REACHED on Ponder @ #12. We have 3rd and 5th rounders out playing him by a wide margin. He is being out played by this year's rookies as well. I know he get's the Homer vote because he is our QB but....Would you rate him higher than Wilson or Folkes at this point. That INT was brutal. Several of the sacks he took last night, he failed to locate his check down back who was wide open.

Oh bullshit. What 3rd and 5th rounders are out playing him by a wide margin? Yes, I would rate him higher than both Wilson and Folkes. He may get some homer votes from people here, but that is ridiculous. He failed to find the open checkdown on ONE sack last night. One was a good coverage sack, and the other was a speed rush that Kalil completely missed on. The INT, I agree, was brutal.

Take off the anti-Spielman shades. You are missing the game. 3rd and 5th Rounders? Seriously? That is so far off base it is sad.

What!? You think Ponder looks better than Wilson. Take off the purple shades.

67.3%
464 yards.....8.9 per attempt
5 TDs
150 rushing and a TD

NodakPaul
08-26-2012, 05:44 PM
What!? You think Ponder looks better than Wilson. Take off the purple shades.

67.3%
464 yards.....8.9 per attempt
5 TDs
150 rushing and a TD

Can you honestly say that you think that Wilson is going to outplay Ponder this year? If so, I'll take that bet. Have you watched his games, or are you just looking at the stat sheet? It doesn't hurt to have Edwards and Owens to throw to. Our WR corp isn't doing Ponder any favors.

I actually like Wilson a lot, and I am not trying to downplay what he has done so far. He is playing well, but he is also making some rookie mistakes. To claim that he is outplaying Ponder is a stretch. I also have serious concerns about his height. At 5'11" his passing lanes are going to be limited and teams are going to gameplan to clog them up in a regular season game. That being said, I wouldn't be shocked to see him as the starter this year, if not at the beginning of the season, then by the halfway point.

So it comes down to the question of who I would rather have, Wilson or Ponder. Right now I would say Ponder. My purple shades probably ARE affecting that a bit, I'll admit it. My response was directed more at kevon, who is on a witch hunt for anything he can hang Spielman on.

NodakPaul
08-26-2012, 05:49 PM
Yes, he did. My eyes are just fine.

3 yards is a big difference?! That is laughable.

Longwell was not good last year but Blair is a concern. Period.

Young vs old and young is not impressing me.

It is a big difference when you are talking about catching the ball on the goal line or three yards deep. We are going to see significantly more TBs this year. Considering the division we are in, that is a big deal.

And Walsh is currently kicking pretty much the same as what we saw from Longwell last year. So worst case scenario we have the same kicking efficiency and better kickoffs. I don't see how that is a cause for concern.

highdesertvike
08-26-2012, 08:06 PM
Yes, because that's what we do, apparently. Base the season on the good things, and disregard the bad things because, well, it's just preseason...right?

Cute. I'm simply suggesting we wait until a few REGULAR season games are in the books before we start writing the season off...

marstc09
08-27-2012, 01:55 AM
What!? You think Ponder looks better than Wilson. Take off the purple shades.

67.3%
464 yards.....8.9 per attempt
5 TDs
150 rushing and a TD

Can you honestly say that you think that Wilson is going to outplay Ponder this year? If so, I'll take that bet. Have you watched his games, or are you just looking at the stat sheet? It doesn't hurt to have Edwards and Owens to throw to. Our WR corp isn't doing Ponder any favors.

I actually like Wilson a lot, and I am not trying to downplay what he has done so far. He is playing well, but he is also making some rookie mistakes. To claim that he is outplaying Ponder is a stretch. I also have serious concerns about his height. At 5'11" his passing lanes are going to be limited and teams are going to gameplan to clog them up in a regular season game. That being said, I wouldn't be shocked to see him as the starter this year, if not at the beginning of the season, then by the halfway point.

So it comes down to the question of who I would rather have, Wilson or Ponder. Right now I would say Ponder. My purple shades probably ARE affecting that a bit, I'll admit it. My response was directed more at kevon, who is on a witch hunt for anything he can hang Spielman on.

TO?! You mean the same guy they just cut? Lol

Yes I can honestly say Wilson will outplay Ponder. They might even make the playoffs now.

Stats win games and yes I watched his games. I am a Wisconsin fan. The bet is on!

Wilson was just named the starter! Suck it Marrdro and TJOKE!

marstc09
08-27-2012, 02:00 AM
Yes, he did. My eyes are just fine.

3 yards is a big difference?! That is laughable.

Longwell was not good last year but Blair is a concern. Period.

Young vs old and young is not impressing me.

It is a big difference when you are talking about catching the ball on the goal line or three yards deep. We are going to see significantly more TBs this year. Considering the division we are in, that is a big deal.

And Walsh is currently kicking pretty much the same as what we saw from Longwell last year. So worst case scenario we have the same kicking efficiency and better kickoffs. I don't see how that is a cause for concern.

Touchbacks don't win games. We went to the NFC Championship with a guy that didn't get many touchbacks. We lost one with a guy that missed a FG. I am concerned and I have every right to be based on history and the last preseason game losing by 2 points and a missed FG.

STCLOUDSAYSGOVIKES
08-27-2012, 02:29 AM
K Billy Cundiff was just cut.
What would it hurt to bring him in for a workout.

I think a little competition is good.
If walsh kicks better knowing there is a veteran breathing down his neck, then point made.

singersp
08-27-2012, 06:43 AM
Cute. I'm simply suggesting we wait until a few REGULAR season games are in the books before we start writing the season off...

Me too. Plus, I'm simply suggesting we wait until a few REGULAR season games are in the books before fans start talking about how great certain players will be & how many more games we'll win based on 1 certain preseason game.

singersp
08-27-2012, 06:56 AM
Longwell was 22 for 28 last year on FGs. I strongly suspect that Walsh will be just as good, if not better.

Wasn't Walsh only 21 of 35 last year? He's already missed on 2 of 4 40+ yarders this preseason. I think it's a wait & see until the seasons over to see if we got 2011 Walsh or 2010 Walsh.

Either way, Longwell wasn't going to be a long term answer and we need one. I'm just not sold yet that Walsh will be that guy.

singersp
08-27-2012, 07:15 AM
Quote Originally Posted by marstc09 View Post
What!? You think Ponder looks better than Wilson. Take off the purple shades.

67.3%
464 yards.....8.9 per attempt
5 TDs
150 rushing and a TD


Can you honestly say that you think that Wilson is going to outplay Ponder this year? If so, I'll take that bet. Have you watched his games, or are you just looking at the stat sheet? It doesn't hurt to have Edwards and Owens to throw to. Our WR corp isn't doing Ponder any favors.

I actually like Wilson a lot, and I am not trying to downplay what he has done so far. He is playing well, but he is also making some rookie mistakes. To claim that he is outplaying Ponder is a stretch. I also have serious concerns about his height. At 5'11" his passing lanes are going to be limited and teams are going to gameplan to clog them up in a regular season game. That being said, I wouldn't be shocked to see him as the starter this year, if not at the beginning of the season, then by the halfway point.

So it comes down to the question of who I would rather have, Wilson or Ponder. Right now I would say Ponder. My purple shades probably ARE affecting that a bit, I'll admit it. My response was directed more at kevon, who is on a witch hunt for anything he can hang Spielman on.

Didn't Wilson just get the nod to start over the $10 million dollar man Matt Flynn, which many believed would be an elite QB? That's an expensive back up.

Schefter was talking about him on Mike & Mike & despite his size, Wilson had fewer batted down passes than most QB's a full head taller than him. He had 4 batted down, while 6-4 Tannehil had 17.

Granted it's preseason games were talking about, but I wouldn't rule him out as being able to beat Ponder in performance. He's looking better than Ponder did 1 year ago at this time.

This is a rookie QB we're talking about. Imagine how good he could be in his second year after having a full off-season to work with the first team starters.

NodakPaul
08-27-2012, 09:30 AM
Touchbacks don't win games. We went to the NFC Championship with a guy that didn't get many touchbacks. We lost one with a guy that missed a FG. I am concerned and I have every right to be based on history and the last preseason game losing by 2 points and a missed FG.

Touchbacks don't win games, but bad field position can certainly lose them.

And I think that Favre had a little more to do with our NFC Championship run in 2009. And I am not so myopic to blame Andersen for the loss in 1998. If you remember correctly, we were still up by 7 when Andersen missed his only FG of the year, and there was less than 2 minutes left on the clock. It took a defensive breakdown followed by Green taking a knee to lose that game.

Sorry, but I just can't get worked up over a missed FG in preseason.

NodakPaul
08-27-2012, 09:36 AM
TO?! You mean the same guy they just cut? Lol

Yes I can honestly say Wilson will outplay Ponder. They might even make the playoffs now.

Stats win games and yes I watched his games. I am a Wisconsin fan. The bet is on!

Wilson was just named the starter! Suck it Marrdro and TJOKE!

OK, the bet is on. What is the prize? :)

kevoncox
08-27-2012, 10:02 AM
OK, the bet is on. What is the prize? :)

A season full of buyers remorse?
This isn't about Spielman. Its about a poor decision that was made.
Isn't it a bit silly to have to compare a guy drafted in the 3rd round this year with our QB drafted 12th overall last year. The fact that we are even able to compare them is laughable and a clear sign where this franchise is headed. It's TJack all over, they threw a ball, we swung when we shouldn't and we missed. The sad thing is, it's going to take years to fix. Nothing I saw out of Ponder has made me feel better. He has trouble throwing the ball and the majority of his picks are trying to get it to the outside.

tastywaves
08-27-2012, 11:26 AM
A season full of buyers remorse?
This isn't about Spielman. Its about a poor decision that was made.
Isn't it a bit silly to have to compare a guy drafted in the 3rd round this year with our QB drafted 12th overall last year. The fact that we are even able to compare them is laughable and a clear sign where this franchise is headed. It's TJack all over, they threw a ball, we swung when we shouldn't and we missed. The sad thing is, it's going to take years to fix. Nothing I saw out of Ponder has made me feel better. He has trouble throwing the ball and the majority of his picks are trying to get it to the outside.

Kevon, you've made up your mind on Ponder and that's fine. You may be right, I think your selling him a bit short and are basing it more on your disapproval of the pick then you are in what you see. I don't think he's near as bad as your portrayal. He won't light the league on fire this year, doesn't have the all star WR corps that you so desire for this to happen and we are not that type of team. IMO, he needs to be judged more by how much he helps this team win and not merely his fantasy stats.

Russell might work out in Seattle, more power to him if he does. But crowning him a better NFL player than anyone else is very premature. Preseason games always cloud people's judgement. They see the results and can't help but translate it into what it will be like in the regular season. But time and time again we see how meaningless the preseason games really are and how very little translates into the real thing.

I haven't commented a whole lot on the preseason games or OTA's because the significance of what is being taught during these sessions is mostly lost on a casual outside observer such as myself that only gets to see a handful of plays in a preseason game. Come regular season, when the starters get real playing time and the winning the game has a lot more meaning it will be a lot easier to judge if this team is on the road to improving.

kevoncox
08-27-2012, 12:26 PM
Kevon, you've made up your mind on Ponder and that's fine. You may be right, I think your selling him a bit short and are basing it more on your disapproval of the pick then you are in what you see. I don't think he's near as bad as your portrayal. He won't light the league on fire this year, doesn't have the all star WR corps that you so desire for this to happen and we are not that type of team. IMO, he needs to be judged more by how much he helps this team win and not merely his fantasy stats.

Russell might work out in Seattle, more power to him if he does. But crowning him a better NFL player than anyone else is very premature. Preseason games always cloud people's judgement. They see the results and can't help but translate it into what it will be like in the regular season. But time and time again we see how meaningless the preseason games really are and how very little translates into the real thing.

I haven't commented a whole lot on the preseason games or OTA's because the significance of what is being taught during these sessions is mostly lost on a casual outside observer such as myself that only gets to see a handful of plays in a preseason game. Come regular season, when the starters get real playing time and the winning the game has a lot more meaning it will be a lot easier to judge if this team is on the road to improving.

You are right on some many points.
It is premature to judge but I believe I have seen everything I need to see.
I see a guy that has a low ceiling. He is going to get better but not much better.
While I think Russell will be a tad bit better than Ponder over thier careers, I think my issues is with the fact that he was taking 12th overall. We completely blew that pick. The more I see, we simply blew it. We panicked and grabbed the next QB we had available and that is a poor way to draft.

Minniman
08-27-2012, 12:53 PM
I think my issues is with the fact that he was taking 12th overall. We completely blew that pick. The more I see, we simply blew it. We panicked and grabbed the next QB we had available and that is a poor way to draft.
I agree. The first and second round should always be BPA. It is likely Ponder would have been available later.

It has been reported that the Vikings were high on Jake Locker, but they did not move up to draft him. The Vikings had Ponder and Dalton about equal on their chart, but they believed Ponder to be more NFL ready. Dalton went in the second round, and was ready enough to make the Pro Bowl. Ryan Mallett went to New England in the third round, ironically, with the pick the Vikings gave to the Patriots for the Randy Moss debacle.

jmcdon00
08-27-2012, 02:25 PM
Way too early to call Ponder a bust, but I haven't seen much evidence that he will be a great QB. And make no mistake, greatness is what's required of him if the Vikings are to compete in this division.

marstc09
08-27-2012, 06:49 PM
Marstc, PM sent your way...Ned

Sorry Ned but for some reason I can't get private messages. WEBBY HELP!

marstc09
08-27-2012, 06:58 PM
Touchbacks don't win games. We went to the NFC Championship with a guy that didn't get many touchbacks. We lost one with a guy that missed a FG. I am concerned and I have every right to be based on history and the last preseason game losing by 2 points and a missed FG.

Touchbacks don't win games, but bad field position can certainly lose them.

And I think that Favre had a little more to do with our NFC Championship run in 2009. And I am not so myopic to blame Andersen for the loss in 1998. If you remember correctly, we were still up by 7 when Andersen missed his only FG of the year, and there was less than 2 minutes left on the clock. It took a defensive breakdown followed by Green taking a knee to lose that game.

Sorry, but I just can't get worked up over a missed FG in preseason.

Missed FGs lose more games than the occasional bad field position.

In preseason?! You act like mising a FG in preseason is different than missing it in the regular season. It makes no difference.

His history suggests that this is no fluke. He misses FGs. It is a concern.

marstc09
08-27-2012, 06:59 PM
TO?! You mean the same guy they just cut? Lol

Yes I can honestly say Wilson will outplay Ponder. They might even make the playoffs now.

Stats win games and yes I watched his games. I am a Wisconsin fan. The bet is on!

Wilson was just named the starter! Suck it Marrdro and TJOKE!

OK, the bet is on. What is the prize? :)

Your season tickets. :haha:

marstc09
08-27-2012, 09:39 PM
Nevermind. Ned you need to learn how to send messages. :cool:

Riverside_Vike
08-28-2012, 04:48 AM
I was quite dismayed by the pick ponder threw. Though the routes did look somewhat wrong, that type of outside throw reminded me of those intercepted out routes that Woodson and others feasted on last year.

I remember arm strength being discussed as an issue with this guy, and if he cant make that throw it severely lowers his ceiling.

I hope I'm wrong about that :o
:(