PDA

View Full Version : Good Look at the DT position



Marrdro
08-12-2012, 06:21 PM
OK, been on the soapbox for enough years so most of you know my concern here.

In a nutshell, we just don't have the right guys in the middle anymore and that leads to breakdowns in the scheme at the LB and DB levels.

So, with that in mind, I started to snoop about for possible answers:

a. 3 Technique - K-dubb. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think he needs to be replaced at the end of the year. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. We need to get better at the 3 and the 1 tech, not just the 1 tech now.

Possible solutions: Move Guion to that position. Its what he was drafted to do. Draft the best 3 Tech in the draft with your first pick in the 2013 draft as a fallback option/backup/depth

Star Lotulelei, DT

Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1801107)




b. 1 Technique - Get rid of Evans and bring in a real 1 tech...

My recommendations.....Glenn Dorsey.

KC is in a mess here. They finally got Jackson to restructure his contract so he isn't cleaning the house out and just brought in Ropati Pitoitua in off waivers. I think that means that they are prepping for the worst come the end of the season and that is the cost it will take to keep Dorsey on the roster.

His tackles were down a bit last year, but he has had steady progress his first 3 years. In short, the cat should be getting better, not worse.

Anyone else know of a better way to solve this?

singersp
08-13-2012, 08:03 AM
Anyone else know of a better way to solve this?

Wait until the 2012 season is over before talking about the 2013 draft & what our needs are.

1st pick might have to be WR.

vikinggreg
08-13-2012, 09:39 AM
Wait until the 2012 season is over before talking about the 2013 draft & what our needs are.

1st pick might have to be WR.

WR crop is a little shakey looking next year Keenan Allen, Robert Woods and Justin Hunter are all coming off injuries and are juniors..... top 10-15 picks at the moment (very early) while DT Lotulelei and Hankins are projected 2-4 picks in the first round. Don't want to reach for a need when there isn't a lockout thats how we got Ponder in the first round.

MaxVike
08-13-2012, 12:38 PM
The DT position is a justifiable concern. The lack of talent here really also exposes our MLB, Jasper Brinkly. The only short-term solution is for the existing guys to elevate their game, which, is reason for further concern.

Not sure I agree with your point about KDub, but, I understand the point. I think Ballard will be a decent rotational player, but, I completely agree with the Marr soapbox re: Vikes needing a warpig.

I'm afraid this defense is destined for another embarrassing year...no, not making this point based solely on SF game, but, don't have faith in run defense or 2012 results of young secondary.

mountainviking
08-13-2012, 12:54 PM
Man! Way too early Marr!! ;) So many unknowns! Our record, indicating where our pick is, for number one. I mean, if we're picking in the top five again, and the best DT of the draft is there for us, sure! But, if we're picking in the 10-15 range and the DTs are picked over but there is top WR or S or LB still on the board...I say, don't reach for the DT unless you're thinking he's roughly equal to the guys that are gone.

And then there's a whole season of injuries, failures, and successes to determine the college players' stocks, AND, of course, who and how many of our 1-year wonder deals and expiring contracts to resign! Too many ??????s to comprehend!?!!?

But, yes, we still need help at DT, AND WR! But, what about MLB? Another S? RT? In short, the rebuilding will need to continue.

IF I recall correctly, vs. San Fran, I think most of the big runs were outside runs...coincidence, perhaps, or maybe, we should be more worried about our OLBs and Ss not taking the proper angles to close their gaps...?

And I freaking hate seeing the continued dropsies by our WRs!! It's like the curse of the Moss for Williamson trade just won't go away! I like Simpson's athleticism, but one of the main reasons CIN didn't keep him was too many drops. I don't see Wright being a no.1, and Aromashadu has dropped more than his share too. Harvin is awesome as the versatile threat underneath, but we still really, really, really need that one, deep go-to guy that our QBs can rely on to make defenses pay for stacking the box to try and take away our strength.

So, looking to the Free Agent lists to come...NOT much available at WR. Bowe or Wallace maybe? Simpson or Aromashadu for a few more years? It sure doesn't seem likely that Jennings or Cruz will even hit FA!??

2012 Contract Year Players / 2013 NFL Free Agents: WRs (http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2012/contract_year_players.cfm?player_pos=WR)

2012 Contract Year Players / 2013 NFL Free Agents: DTs (http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2012/contract_year_players.cfm?player_pos=DT)

Not much at DT either. Perhaps trade our K.Will for another? Can't imagine that the Bills want to let Kyle Williams go though...

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/22/kyle-williams-beast/

Same thing with San Fran and Isaac Sopoaga I'd guess. I bet he'd look pretty freaking bad ass next to Kevin, Allen and Robison though!!

And then there's the cap...we should have more room next season, no?

Freakout
08-13-2012, 01:17 PM
This is why I really wanted Ta'amu or Chapman in the draft and both fell into the 4th/5th round. Which would have been perfect.

Next year as a NT I like Hankins more than I do Lotulelei.

The kid I really like is Kawann Short. He had a very good junior season and would be a good replacement for Kevin. Kevin's salary really jumps up next year.

The thing is you can typically find the run stopping DT/NT's later in the draft.

Marrdro
08-13-2012, 03:12 PM
Wait until the 2012 season is over before talking about the 2013 draft & what our needs are.

1st pick might have to be WR.
Why wait? You don't think that Spielman is already looking at the 2013 draft? My guess he is as well as the 2014 effort.

And why WR? Least position that needs to be addressed.

Marrdro
08-13-2012, 03:14 PM
WR crop is a little shakey looking next year Keenan Allen, Robert Woods and Justin Hunter are all coming off injuries and are juniors..... top 10-15 picks at the moment (very early) while DT Lotulelei and Hankins are projected 2-4 picks in the first round. Don't want to reach for a need when there isn't a lockout thats how we got Ponder in the first round.
I'm not sure about Hankins, not much out there when I started to dig a bit but I have him and Lotulelei on my radar to try to watch a game or two on this year.

Marrdro
08-13-2012, 03:17 PM
The DT position is a justifiable concern. The lack of talent here really also exposes our MLB, Jasper Brinkly. The only short-term solution is for the existing guys to elevate their game, which, is reason for further concern.

Not sure I agree with your point about KDub, but, I understand the point. I think Ballard will be a decent rotational player, but, I completely agree with the Marr soapbox re: Vikes needing a warpig.

I'm afraid this defense is destined for another embarrassing year...no, not making this point based solely on SF game, but, don't have faith in run defense or 2012 results of young secondary.
Excellent post.

Quick question, would you trade K-dubb straight up for Dorsey? Both will be looking for contracts and both will command big bucks. One is young and emerging, the other is on the down side.

If I was Ricky boy I'd be on the phone early and often with KC and Dorsey's agent if they gave him permission. Again, the key indicator for me is the Pitoitua signing.

Marrdro
08-13-2012, 03:29 PM
Man! Way too early Marr!! ;) So many unknowns! Our record, indicating where our pick is, for number one. I mean, if we're picking in the top five again, and the best DT of the draft is there for us, sure! But, if we're picking in the 10-15 range and the DTs are picked over but there is top WR or S or LB still on the board...I say, don't reach for the DT unless you're thinking he's roughly equal to the guys that are gone.

Of course I completely agree with all of that. I should have put a caveat in there that we would be drafting in the top 5. If our defense plays the way it looked last year and anything close to what we saw last weekend, I don't think that is out of the question.



But, yes, we still need help at DT, AND WR! But, what about MLB? Another S? RT? In short, the rebuilding will need to continue.

I think we will find out that WR and MLB are not an issue after this year. WR - I think Simpson, Burton and Harvin are going to become a very nice group if we ever see 3 wides again.

Big issue there is we won't rely on them like that. We are destined to watch a hole lotta 3 TE sets this year.


IF I recall correctly, vs. San Fran, I think most of the big runs were outside runs...coincidence, perhaps, or maybe, we should be more worried about our OLBs and Ss not taking the proper angles to close their gaps...?

I haven't had the chance to watch the re-air, but from what my family told me, they started to gash us inside and our DE's started crashing down to help out (leaving their gaps) kindof like what Reed did on the Kap run so I'm not so sure I would blame everything on the DE's other than to point out that they didn't maintain gap control if that was happening.


And I freaking hate seeing the continued dropsies by our WRs!! It's like the curse of the Moss for Williamson trade just won't go away! I like Simpson's athleticism, but one of the main reasons CIN didn't keep him was too many drops. I don't see Wright being a no.1, and Aromashadu has dropped more than his share too. Harvin is awesome as the versatile threat underneath, but we still really, really, really need that one, deep go-to guy that our QBs can rely on to make defenses pay for stacking the box to try and take away our strength.

I watch alot of Bengals ball. They didn't keep him because they have alot of good receivers and don't need him not because of drops. Which by the way, I think will go down as the QB and receivers get used to each other.


So, looking to the Free Agent lists to come...NOT much available at WR. Bowe or Wallace maybe? Simpson or Aromashadu for a few more years? It sure doesn't seem likely that Jennings or Cruz will even hit FA!??

We should go for Wallace or just stick with what we have.

2012 Contract Year Players / 2013 NFL Free Agents: WRs (http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2012/contract_year_players.cfm?player_pos=WR)

2012 Contract Year Players / 2013 NFL Free Agents: DTs (http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2012/contract_year_players.cfm?player_pos=DT)


Not much at DT either. Perhaps trade our K.Will for another? Can't imagine that the Bills want to let Kyle Williams go though...

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/22/kyle-williams-beast/

Same thing with San Fran and Isaac Sopoaga I'd guess. I bet he'd look pretty freaking bad ass next to Kevin, Allen and Robison though!!

Have you watche Dorsey? Kid is going to be a good one. Thing is, he will hit the open market at the end of the year. We should make a move for him now, let him have one year in the system along side Guion (while everyone else is gelling) and then go from there rebuilding the depth behind them.

But one thing we don't need to do is draft more guys like Ballard. He is not a DT. He is a LDE at best, albeit a damn good looking one. Problem is, we seem to be trying to get smaller and faster across the line (ala colts of old under Dungy) and we saw how that worked. DB's were beat to shit always making tackles for the front 7.


And then there's the cap...we should have more room next season, no?
Gonna cost about the same to resign K-dubb and a guy like Dorsey. Thats why you don't resign K-dubb.

Marrdro
08-13-2012, 03:31 PM
This is why I really wanted Ta'amu or Chapman in the draft and both fell into the 4th/5th round. Which would have been perfect.

Next year as a NT I like Hankins more than I do Lotulelei.

The kid I really like is Kawann Short. He had a very good junior season and would be a good replacement for Kevin. Kevin's salary really jumps up next year.

The thing is you can typically find the run stopping DT/NT's later in the draft.
I about shit when Ta'amu was there and we didn't take him.

I guess I need to watch Hankins this year. Your the second one to talk good about him.

marshallvike
08-13-2012, 04:18 PM
Excellent post.

Quick question, would you trade K-dubb straight up for Dorsey? Both will be looking for contracts and both will command big bucks. One is young and emerging, the other is on the down side.

If I was Ricky boy I'd be on the phone early and often with KC and Dorsey's agent if they gave him permission. Again, the key indicator for me is the Pitoitua signing.

I am sure once Rick has finished perusing PPO for some ideas he will be on the horn trying to trade KW for Dorsey for Wallace. Especially after he sees the consensus here is that it is time to move Kevin. :think:

Marrdro
08-13-2012, 06:07 PM
I am sure once Rick has finished perusing PPO for some ideas he will be on the horn trying to trade KW for Dorsey for Wallace. Especially after he sees the consensus here is that it is time to move Kevin. :think:
LOL, you crack me up.

You know that I put very little credence on anything I say on here. Just idle chit chat. You know me, love talking football. If I can't get a discussion going on one subject, I'll try two or three others until someone engages.....:)

MaxVike
08-13-2012, 10:06 PM
The DT position is a justifiable concern. The lack of talent here really also exposes our MLB, Jasper Brinkly. The only short-term solution is for the existing guys to elevate their game, which, is reason for further concern.

Not sure I agree with your point about KDub, but, I understand the point. I think Ballard will be a decent rotational player, but, I completely agree with the Marr soapbox re: Vikes needing a warpig.

I'm afraid this defense is destined for another embarrassing year...no, not making this point based solely on SF game, but, don't have faith in run defense or 2012 results of young secondary.
Excellent post.

Quick question, would you trade K-dubb straight up for Dorsey? Both will be looking for contracts and both will command big bucks. One is young and emerging, the other is on the down side.

If I was Ricky boy I'd be on the phone early and often with KC and Dorsey's agent if they gave him permission. Again, the key indicator for me is the Pitoitua signing.

Marr, I would most definitely consider it. I really liked Dorsey coming out. He's flashed a bit, would benefit from a great DLine coach like a Teerlink IMO. Given KDub is one of my favs, it would be tough to let him go, but, youth with upside, wins the day over a great player in the twilight of his career. Long story short, yes, I'd make the deal.

Purple Floyd
08-13-2012, 11:47 PM
The draft is deep at DT next year and we will have a high pick. It will be taken care of there.

Unless a blue chip MLB is sitting there.

b_sandhar_29
08-14-2012, 05:50 AM
I really think that we will need to replace Jasper Brinkley at the end of the year. He was horrible, play recognition was slow, didn't seem like he was playing the right gaps, and took some horrible angles. I hate to look so far ahead but I completely agree mar. Our interior line just doesn't look the same, however I think Guillon is going to be a stud this year. He made some great plays and was constantly disrupting the line. Is he a one tech? I don't think so, but he can do very well playing the three tech IMO.

Jarlvik
08-14-2012, 08:24 AM
I think it's a little early to get on Brinkley. He's got some rust to knock off and I believe that until Mike Singletary says "can't play with him, can't win with him", he'll keep working with him.
I must say that Tydreke Powell seemed to have some hustle and near the ball on most plays (granted it was against 3rd team). He has the size and if he responds to coaching, he might work out in the future. For now, I would hit up KC for Dorsey.

Marrdro
08-14-2012, 07:39 PM
The draft is deep at DT next year and we will have a high pick. It will be taken care of there.

Unless a blue chip MLB is sitting there.
Thats what you all told me about this years class, and last years class and the class before that....:)

Marrdro
08-14-2012, 07:39 PM
I think it's a little early to get on Brinkley. He's got some rust to knock off and I believe that until Mike Singletary says "can't play with him, can't win with him", he'll keep working with him.
I must say that Tydreke Powell seemed to have some hustle and near the ball on most plays (granted it was against 3rd team). He has the size and if he responds to coaching, he might work out in the future. For now, I would hit up KC for Dorsey.
You lost me at Singletary.

You see what a good coach did with the 49rs after he left?

Marrdro
08-14-2012, 07:40 PM
I really think that we will need to replace Jasper Brinkley at the end of the year. He was horrible, play recognition was slow, didn't seem like he was playing the right gaps, and took some horrible angles. I hate to look so far ahead but I completely agree mar. Our interior line just doesn't look the same, however I think Guillon is going to be a stud this year. He made some great plays and was constantly disrupting the line. Is he a one tech? I don't think so, but he can do very well playing the three tech IMO.

Most rookies thrown into the mix before they are ready look a little show, take bad angles etc etc etc.

Lets see how he does this year before we get rid of him.

Purple Floyd
08-14-2012, 07:49 PM
Thats what you all told me about this years class, and last years class and the class before that....:)

Who told you that the draft was deep with DT and MLB in the last few years and or/that we would be taking them with a high pick?

And to expand on that, I seem to remember you telling us:

Childress and Spielman were building the team to be competitive for years.
That they were assembling players who fit the "Scheme"

That the record got worse after Tice because they had to bring in talent to fit said scheme and that it wasn't coaching that was the problem

That TJ was going to be the long term answer at QB. (If that ended up being true they could have drafted a NT instead of a QB 2 years ago)

ETC.

So with that in mind pardon me if I take the angle that a DT will fix the defense with a grain of salt.:p

marstc09
08-20-2012, 12:29 AM
We are just fine. No concerns. Same song and dance every year just like tjoke. Move on! *yawn*