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singersp
07-15-2012, 11:52 AM
Ponder talks about Vikings busy offseason in Fargo

Quarterback Christian Ponder talks about Vikings busy offseason in Fargo | The Dickinson Press | Dickinson, North Dakota (http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/event/article/id/59702/)

jargomcfargo
07-15-2012, 01:03 PM
Even the best quarterbacks, with good offensive lines get a fair amount of pressure.
Kalil will help some, but Ponder needs someone to throw to.
He moves around well in the pocket, lets just hope some of these new guys can get open and Musgrave can see clearly on gameday.

Marrdro
07-17-2012, 12:19 PM
Even the best quarterbacks, with good offensive lines get a fair amount of pressure.
Kalil will help some, but Ponder needs someone to throw to.
He moves around well in the pocket, lets just hope some of these new guys can get open and Musgrave can see clearly on gameday.
Interesting points my friend.

Just not sure if you think Ponder doesn't have weapons this year or not. I for one think he has all kinds of weapons and more importantly, the type that fit the scheme to a T.

jargomcfargo
07-17-2012, 01:58 PM
Interesting points my friend.

Just not sure if you think Ponder doesn't have weapons this year or not. I for one think he has all kinds of weapons and more importantly, the type that fit the scheme to a T.

I'm just not convinced yet. Simpson should be able to take the top off the defense and stretch the field, but he does have a history of dropping balls. I'm excited about his potential as a crucial missing element in the offense however.
The 'steal of the draft' Childs, hasn't even been able to get on the practice field much so it's hard to evaluate his potential based on anything other than his pre-injury college career.

Though I am hopeful, I see a lot of unproven players in key positions who need to perform better than they ever have before in order for the team to see success.
One could say the same about Musgrave.

So like you, I think the weapons around Ponder will be better and the offense will show improvement. But I will remain skeptical until I see some games.

Marrdro
07-17-2012, 02:15 PM
I'm just not convinced yet. Simpson should be able to take the top off the defense and stretch the field, but he does have a history of dropping balls. I'm excited about his potential as a crucial missing element in the offense however.
The 'steal of the draft' Childs, hasn't even been able to get on the practice field much so it's hard to evaluate his potential based on anything other than his pre-injury college career.

Though I am hopeful, I see a lot of unproven players in key positions who need to perform better than they ever have before in order for the team to see success.
One could say the same about Musgrave.

So like you, I think the weapons around Ponder will be better and the offense will show improvement. But I will remain skeptical until I see some games.

Fair enough. As always I tend to be a bit overly optimistic this time of year, especially when it comes to the young talent.

I sure like the "Speed" we've added that is sprinkled throughout the whole team.

Going to be hard to maintain consistency this year for sure, but they should be fun to watch.

tastywaves
07-17-2012, 02:18 PM
I'm just not convinced yet. Simpson should be able to take the top off the defense and stretch the field, but he does have a history of dropping balls. I'm excited about his potential as a crucial missing element in the offense however.
The 'steal of the draft' Childs, hasn't even been able to get on the practice field much so it's hard to evaluate his potential based on anything other than his pre-injury college career.

Though I am hopeful, I see a lot of unproven players in key positions who need to perform better than they ever have before in order for the team to see success.
One could say the same about Musgrave.

So like you, I think the weapons around Ponder will be better and the offense will show improvement. But I will remain skeptical until I see some games.

Agreed, we may have added some good raw talent, but it is still quite raw. I'm expecting improvement, but nothing earth shattering.

And yes, the coaching staff will have to pick up its game or it's all pretty much meaningless.

Marrdro
07-17-2012, 02:22 PM
Agreed, we may have added some good raw talent, but it is still quite raw. I'm expecting improvement, but nothing earth shattering.

And yes, the coaching staff will have to pick up its game or it's all pretty much meaningless.
Damn I'm getting excited. Just might have to make wings tonight for dinner just to make sure the recipe still works......:cool:

tastywaves
07-17-2012, 02:30 PM
Damn I'm getting excited. Just might have to make wings tonight for dinner just to make sure the recipe still works......:cool:

It has to be a much better season than last, right?

I think we are a more "athletic" team than we were last year, which usually bodes well in today's game. The success and long term prospect of this team will largely be based on Ponder's development. If he doesn't make significant progress, then I think we will be left with a lot of question marks and probably a fair amount of coaching turnover.

Marrdro
07-18-2012, 11:51 AM
It has to be a much better season than last, right?

I think we are a more "athletic" team than we were last year, which usually bodes well in today's game. The success and long term prospect of this team will largely be based on Ponder's development. If he doesn't make significant progress, then I think we will be left with a lot of question marks and probably a fair amount of coaching turnover.
I mentioned the speed in another thread. Definitely agree that we seem to have added in that area.

As to Ponders progress, I think it will be significant this year, but if it isn't, one has to remember that the development of a QB doesn't happen over night. Sometimes it takes years and years.

That, my friend, is something Vikings fans don't seem to be tolerant of. On most of the pages, call in radio shows etc, you hear talk about throwing the kid out already based on one year, and a partial one at that.

Imagine were Giant fans would be today if they threw Eli out when they wanted to.

tastywaves
07-18-2012, 12:11 PM
I mentioned the speed in another thread. Definitely agree that we seem to have added in that area.

As to Ponders progress, I think it will be significant this year, but if it isn't, one has to remember that the development of a QB doesn't happen over night. Sometimes it takes years and years.

That, my friend, is something Vikings fans don't seem to be tolerant of. On most of the pages, call in radio shows etc, you hear talk about throwing the kid out already based on one year, and a partial one at that.

Imagine were Giant fans would be today if they threw Eli out when they wanted to.

I agree that a top QB's peak probably isn't realized until around 5 seasons, but you should see improvement and potential to allow the franchise to continue the significant investment. I'm not much of a fan of the "let him play for 3 years and see if he can develop into a good QB". The price for the franchise is just too high. He has to show that he is worth the investment. I realize that this can be very subjective, but that's what the coaches and front office are paid to do.

I do think that Ponder has a decent shot at being that guy from what I saw last year. But this year, he needs to progress significantly in order to warrant the continued investment. I'm not expecting him to be a world beater, as he is surrounded by a very young roster, but their needs to be improvement. Not just in his stats, but at his ability to play QB and lead this offense.

If over 50% of the posters on this board think Ponder should be our starter going into next year, he probably did a decent job.

Marrdro
07-18-2012, 02:58 PM
I agree that a top QB's peak probably isn't realized until around 5 seasons, but you should see improvement and potential to allow the franchise to continue the significant investment. I'm not much of a fan of the "let him play for 3 years and see if he can develop into a good QB". The price for the franchise is just too high. He has to show that he is worth the investment. I realize that this can be very subjective, but that's what the coaches and front office are paid to do.

I do think that Ponder has a decent shot at being that guy from what I saw last year. But this year, he needs to progress significantly in order to warrant the continued investment. I'm not expecting him to be a world beater, as he is surrounded by a very young roster, but their needs to be improvement. Not just in his stats, but at his ability to play QB and lead this offense.

If over 50% of the posters on this board think Ponder should be our starter going into next year, he probably did a decent job.
Good stuff as always, but as I just posted, I'm not so sure that progression should be put only on the player.

If Ponder doesn't progress like I think he should, I'm going looking for coaches heads, not the players head.

By the way, we'll never get 50% of the posters on this site to agree on that even if he does progress.

tastywaves
07-18-2012, 04:22 PM
Good stuff as always, but as I just posted, I'm not so sure that progression should be put only on the player.

If Ponder doesn't progress like I think he should, I'm going looking for coaches heads, not the players head.

By the way, we'll never get 50% of the posters on this site to agree on that even if he does progress.

That was my point on the 50% thing. It is a lofty expectation for sure, but probably a pretty good measurement that he had a good year.

I'm not expecting 8-8 or 9-7. I think 6-10 is a better projection and this is if Ponder progresses and the newly acquired talent rises above last year's.

Also, don't give Ponder a free ride if he stinks it up, just because it's only his second year or he has a poor surrounding cast. Believe in what your eyes see when watching the man behind center (and not necessarily the stats) to determine if he deserves another year. Your statement on the coaches pretty much gives him a mulligan no matter how he performs in 2012. I want to say deja...but I won't ;)

MaxVike
07-18-2012, 07:56 PM
Good stuff as always, but as I just posted, I'm not so sure that progression should be put only on the player.

If Ponder doesn't progress like I think he should, I'm going looking for coaches heads, not the players head.

By the way, we'll never get 50% of the posters on this site to agree on that even if he does progress.

Marr, I'm among the 50% that agrees. I think the kid is going to be an effective starter and a terrific leader. I'm cautiously optimistic and think the aforementioned is his floor, not his ceiling. In my mind's eye, it is a given he will progress on the field. He will have great moments (more than last year), make debatable decisions (less than last year), and will make less stupid throws/decisions than last year.

That said, I simply don't think it is realistic to expect this Team (to your point about coaches and roster decisions), to deliver more than 6 wins. Hmmmmm, am I happy about that? Fuck no. Is it reality? I think so.

There is no quick fix in Vikingland IMHO...

singersp
07-19-2012, 07:33 AM
Good stuff as always, but as I just posted, I'm not so sure that progression should be put only on the player.

If Ponder doesn't progress like I think he should, I'm going looking for coaches heads, not the players head.

By the way, we'll never get 50% of the posters on this site to agree on that even if he does progress.

Disagree completely.

Regardless of what Ponder does this year, hell even before the season starts, you probably have close to, if not more than 50% already that believe our current coaching staff is sub-par.

Have you seen anyone praising anyone on our coaching staff now? More than 50 % of the posters? More than 10%?

I didn't think so.

jargomcfargo
07-19-2012, 11:41 AM
If Ponder doesn't progress like I think he should, I'm going looking for coaches heads, not the players head.


You are going to make excuses for Ponder before the season starts?
I agree the coaching can improve, but feel Ponder should perform well this year even if it doesn't.
Other players such as Peterson and Harvin play well despite some questionable coaching.
I expect Ponder to play well enough to squelch any QB competition talk, as long as he stays healthy. He'll throw his share of bad passes as he continues to learn, but I think I'll blame those throws on Ponder, not Musgrave.

Marrdro
07-19-2012, 12:02 PM
You are going to make excuses for Ponder before the season starts?
I agree the coaching can improve, but feel Ponder should perform well this year even if it doesn't.
Other players such as Peterson and Harvin play well despite some questionable coaching.
I expect Ponder to play well enough to squelch any QB competition talk, as long as he stays healthy. He'll throw his share of bad passes as he continues to learn, but I think I'll blame those throws on Ponder, not Musgrave.
Peterson hasn't really gotten any better than when he entered the league my friend especially in the area RB's tend to improve upon with NFL coaching. (pass protection).

Same could be said for Harvin. A cat with his abilities should be challenging Welker for league stats, not getting half of them.

Again, (you call it excuses) I blame the coaches not the player. The players have the talent, its just up to the coaches to grow/refine/update that talent.

Anyone who thinks that the coaches don't have a significant role in that development are probably the ones who thing the coaches are only there to get coffee for the team meetings and that the vet players teach the youngsters.

jargomcfargo
07-19-2012, 04:09 PM
Peterson hasn't really gotten any better than when he entered the league my friend especially in the area RB's tend to improve upon with NFL coaching. (pass protection).

Same could be said for Harvin. A cat with his abilities should be challenging Welker for league stats, not getting half of them.

Again, (you call it excuses) I blame the coaches not the player. The players have the talent, its just up to the coaches to grow/refine/update that talent.

Anyone who thinks that the coaches don't have a significant role in that development are probably the ones who thing the coaches are only there to get coffee for the team meetings and that the vet players teach the youngsters.

Peterson has improved his pass blocking, though not as much as one would expect. Which QB was going to give Harvin those Welker like numbers?

There's no doubt the coaching needs to improve.

Point is, we don't need to have a scapegoat for Ponder before the season even starts.

If Ponder has what it takes, he will do well despite weak coaching.
This is his year and I expect him to improve and flash at times.

Your last paragraph is wasted text.

singersp
07-20-2012, 06:59 AM
I blame the coaches not the player.



*cough* Joe Webb, Brett Favre, Matt Birk, *cough*

And lets not forget your love fest for Childress early in his time here & how it was the players failure to "execute" the play & not the coaching or play calling.

singersp
07-20-2012, 08:19 AM
If Ponder doesn't progress like I think he should, I'm going looking for coaches heads, not the players head.

And if he does progress like you think he should, will you be praising the coaches instead of Ponder?

If he does, I for one will be giving most of the credit to Ponder.

Marrdro
07-23-2012, 11:40 AM
And if he does progress like you think he should, will you be praising the coaches instead of Ponder?

If he does, I for one will be giving most of the credit to Ponder.
Nope, I will give them credit if its due. I have no axe to grind against them. Their ours. If they do their job I'm happy.

Marrdro
07-23-2012, 11:44 AM
*cough* Joe Webb, Brett Favre, Matt Birk, *cough*

And lets not forget your love fest for Childress early in his time here & how it was the players failure to "execute" the play & not the coaching or play calling.
Critiquing their play is not blaming them. I think you will find that my comments are more geared towards "Its time for them to move on as we have a younger cat ready to go" and in most instances I have been right.

As to the Chiller. I think you have it backwards. I didn't want him initially and didn't really start glamming onto him until about 2008/2009 sometime. Absolutely despised that he played so damn many rookies.

Once I started to see those cats starting to evolve, I tended to relent on him and his ability to get a team ready.

Marrdro
07-23-2012, 12:00 PM
Peterson has improved his pass blocking, though not as much as one would expect. Which QB was going to give Harvin those Welker like numbers?

There's no doubt the coaching needs to improve.

Point is, we don't need to have a scapegoat for Ponder before the season even starts.

If Ponder has what it takes, he will do well despite weak coaching.
This is his year and I expect him to improve and flash at times.

Your last paragraph is wasted text.
Why is my last paragraph wasted text? Obviously you've missed the many many discussions on here about how its the players who teach the youngsters that always end with me saying something along the lines of "Coaches coach and Players play".

And I whole heatedly agree with your comment about "no need for a scapegoat". I always wonder why fans blame players for failing. Fact is, these cats are pretty damn talented. Just to get drafted (or signed to play) at this level is evidence of it. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't.

No need to hate on them for it. Cook was a prime example of that. Everyone hated on that cat and for what? Being stuck in a position by a coaching staff that he wasn't ready or able to play in a scheme he didn't fit.

By the way, he is still doing pretty good from everything I can garner.

singersp
07-25-2012, 06:42 AM
And if he does progress like you think he should, will you be praising the coaches instead of Ponder?

If he does, I for one will be giving most of the credit to Ponder.



Nope, I will give them credit if its due. I have no axe to grind against them. Their ours. If they do their job I'm happy.

Like I thought.

If Ponder excels, you'll give all the credit to Ponder & not the coaches, unless you feel some of the credit should go to the coaches, but if he doesn't excel, you'll solely blame the coaches & not Ponder at all because Ponder has talent.

Marrdro
07-25-2012, 12:15 PM
Like I thought.

If Ponder excels, you'll give all the credit to Ponder & not the coaches, unless you feel some of the credit should go to the coaches, but if he doesn't excel, you'll solely blame the coaches & not Ponder at all because Ponder has talent.
Thats not what I said. I said I would give credit were credit is due. If he progresses, good on both of them. If he falters, both will get hacked on.

Only point out of all that is I won't give up on Ponder if he falters as I believe, with good coaching, he will be a damn good QB in this league.

How did you miss that point? :)

singersp
07-26-2012, 06:44 AM
Thats not what I said. I said I would give credit were credit is due. If he progresses, good on both of them. If he falters, both will get hacked on.

Only point out of all that is I won't give up on Ponder if he falters as I believe, with good coaching, he will be a damn good QB in this league.

How did you miss that point? :)

I didn't miss your point. Here's your quote....


Originally Posted by Marrdro

If Ponder doesn't progress like I think he should, I'm going looking for coaches heads, not the players head.

Where in that statement do you state you'll hack on Ponder if he doesn't progress?

Nowhere. What you in fact say is you'll blame the coaches & not the player.

marshallvike
07-26-2012, 08:30 AM
I didn't miss your point. Here's your quote....



Where in that statement do you state you'll hack on Ponder if he doesn't progress?

Nowhere. What you in fact say is you'll blame the coaches & not the player.

If Bill Walsh was coaching our team, Ponder would be one of the best QB's in the league. With our staff......we'll see.

Marrdro
07-26-2012, 12:26 PM
I didn't miss your point. Here's your quote....



Where in that statement do you state you'll hack on Ponder if he doesn't progress?

Nowhere. What you in fact say is you'll blame the coaches & not the player.
Doesn't mean I won't hack on him.

Just because I didn't spell it out all the way, I've been pretty consistent on here wrt hacking on those that deserve it and giving credit to those that deserve it.

Again, (spelling it out for ya)my point is that I am not going to give up on Ponder if he fails this year. Truth is, I anticipate he will have problems (go find the numerous times I've said that), but I also think he will progress. If one exceeds the others, I am going to put the blame on the coaches for not getting him right, not Ponder for not being coached correctly.

I don't know any other way to say it other than the 3 tries at it I've already tried. :)

Marrdro
07-26-2012, 12:28 PM
If Bill Walsh was coaching our team, Ponder would be one of the best QB's in the league. With our staff......we'll see.
Exactly. See, our good friend Marshall gets what I'm saying.

I bet he even agrees that Ponder would, with Walsh as the coach, still gaff some stuff up that he would deserve to be hacked on for. But that stuff wouldn't warrant giving up on him.

jargomcfargo
07-26-2012, 12:50 PM
I've been critical of the coaching staff as well. But I do recognize that Ponder didn't get a lot of coaching last year due to the lockout. Then once training camp started the Vikes were trying to get McNabb up to speed.
So this will be a much better year to judge the coaching with regard to Ponder.

singersp
07-28-2012, 12:35 PM
I've been critical of the coaching staff as well. But I do recognize that Ponder didn't get a lot of coaching last year due to the lockout.

Neither did Cam Newton or any other player that was drafted.

singersp
07-28-2012, 12:44 PM
Exactly. See, our good friend Marshall gets what I'm saying.

I bet he even agrees that Ponder would, with Walsh as the coach, still gaff some stuff up that he would deserve to be hacked on for. But that stuff wouldn't warrant giving up on him.

There are certain things a coach can teach & certain things they can't. Arm strength, accuracy & speed being 3 of those things.

Are you trying to insinuate McNabb drilled balls into the turf because of poor coaching?

Perhaps you feel if Walsh was our coach, we could have stayed with Webb & not even pursued a QB.

Hell, if Walsh was our coach, we wouldn't need a warpig, we already had one. Remi just needed a good coach.