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Johnson14
06-19-2012, 01:19 PM
@1500ESPN Vikings receiver Percy Harvin says he's not happy, hints at holdout #Vikings

Vikings receiver Percy Harvin says he's not happy, hints at holdout | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Vikings_receiver_Percy_Harvin_says_hes_not_happy_hints_at_holdout061912)

mountainviking
06-19-2012, 01:54 PM
@1500ESPN Vikings receiver Percy Harvin says he's not happy, hints at holdout #Vikings

Vikings receiver Percy Harvin says he's not happy, hints at holdout | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Vikings_receiver_Percy_Harvin_says_hes_not_happy_hints_at_holdout061912)

Well that sucks! But, they do work the shit out of that kid with all the different things he does for us...I'd say he does deserve more than 1-1.5 mil/year. Hopefully, we've still got a lil wiggle to get something done! With Peterson questionable, Harvin is the best offensive player we have.

Johnson14
06-19-2012, 02:51 PM
He's 3 yrs into a 5 yr deal, had durability issues and is not in anyone's top 5/10 wrs in the league, not sure he has too much leverage.




*devils advocate*

Webby
06-19-2012, 03:14 PM
he's undoubtedly has the upper hand in this deal...unless we want to get tough and use him as an example.

midgensa
06-19-2012, 03:36 PM
This is actually a GOOD sign. It means he was a longer deal, which means he will stick around for the right amount of money.

I was starting to get worried he would be gone the second his contract was up (or an extremely high priced franchise tag).

Now ... the contract he signed was $12 million over 5 years ... so him acting like he is getting short changed now for $1 million is not exactly fair since he got a decent front-load on a contract that averages $2.41 million per year.

Is he worth more than $2.41 million per year on the open market. No question about it. So, I see what he is saying and I am sure the team understands, but it is still business on both sides.

As said before though ... to get more money ... there normally is extension involved. I felt like we might have him two more years and then at age 26 he would be hitting the market and getting mega paid elsewhere. If we can use this as a chance to lock him up for seven years (until he is about 30-31 years old) then I think it is most certainly in our best interest to at least negotiate.

NodakPaul
06-19-2012, 03:42 PM
This isn't a huge surprise. The contract itself was majorly front loaded, so he is getting less money this year than he was in his first three years. The contract was built with this in mind - if he performed he had an avenue to rework his contract. If not, we wouldn't be overpaying him.

Not a big deal - he will get some kind of extension. I am with midgensa, I see this as a way to secure him for a long term deal.

I did laugh when I read that Percy Harvin is not top five in his position. Maybe not in stats versus all other receivers, but I would say that he is top two in the slot position. And if Simpson can stretch the field effectively, I think we could see a break out year for Harvin this year. Better to get the deal done now after he comes off from surgery than wait until he makes the pro bowl this year... :)

Webby
06-19-2012, 03:49 PM
7 more years of injuries and missing games? This is our best bet?

Just playing the other side.

midgensa
06-19-2012, 05:11 PM
7 more years of injuries and missing games? This is our best bet?

Just playing the other side.

Playing the other side is fair.

He has missed THREE GAMES in THREE YEARS. Just because he is constantly listed on the injury report does not mean he is missing time. He does have THREE other games in which he was used VERY sparingly (practically not at all) ... so even if you add those he is playing 14 games a years.

Anybody who thinks that Percy is not a legit Top 10-20 receiver in this league are delusional. If he had a quarterback like Brady he would BLOW Welker's numbers out of the water.

And people also seem to forget that he RUSHED for 350 yards last year as well.

He is extremely versatile and has been in the top 7 in total yards all 3 years he has been in the league.

He is worth a TON more money. And he is worth the Vikings investing into over the long haul.

Dibbzz
06-19-2012, 06:03 PM
My opinion: Pay the man.

He's always been a hell of a playmaker for us and in a position that we don't have a whole lot of depth in I say extend his contract and pay him. Was listening to Barreiro on KFAN and there was some talk that this whole thing may be related to the quarterback situation. I highly doubt that and he's simply doing what all NFL players do when they want more money and that's to tell that they're "unhappy" to a reporter, which snowballs into the media talking about it which usually results in a contract being re-done. Nothing really newsworthy here I think he'll get his payday.

C Mac D
06-19-2012, 07:44 PM
Can't blame him. He's underused and underpaid. He could be 10x the receiver Steve Smith is in Carolina, but our staff thinks he's undersized and fragile (using him on only 48% of offensive snaps last season). Fact of the matter, our coaching staff completely lacks any ability to develop, or use, talent effectively. It's been that way since 2006.

This sounds familiar... have I said this before?

singersp
06-19-2012, 08:21 PM
he's undoubtedly has the upper hand in this deal...unless we want to get tough and use him as an example.

We don't have hardly any good vets left to use as "an example".

singersp
06-19-2012, 08:47 PM
Personally, unlike everyone else here, I don't believe this is primarily contract related. I believe Harvin is generally concerned/unhappy about possibly the way the camps/practices are being run or the direction they are heading with their schemes/plans. Perhaps certain coaches & their lack of knowledge/teaching skills have Harvin upset. Could even be where they placed him on the depth charts.

If it was simply a contract issue, I think we'd have heard about it prior to day 1 of mandatory camp & he probably wouldn't have even shown up today.

Something he saw today at camp today has him unhappy. It isn't always contract related. Could be he has a legitimate concern just like Birk & Winfield did when Childress tried to run camp with an iron fist & they had to confront him about it.

Especially considering from what we've heard, the KAO is still alive & pumping thru Frazier's veins.

I just have this feeling he believes there are a lot of things in disarray or in a clusterfuck if you prefer, on the football side of things.

singersp
06-19-2012, 08:51 PM
7 more years of injuries and missing games? This is our best bet?

Well there's always the basketball player. Ricky believes in him.

jargomcfargo
06-19-2012, 10:22 PM
Percy is the biggest offensive star, since AD was injured.
He has been the type of NFL player I have always admired most. He gives everything he has, even when he is playing on a lousey team with no hope of going anywhere.
He's special. He knows it, we know it, the Vikings know it.
The Wilfs need to listen to what he has to say, and pay to keep him in the fold.
If he thinks he is stuck on the train to nowhere, he needs to get paid to stay there.
Money is part of it.
Not having a chance at a ring is possibly a bigger factor.

midgensa
06-20-2012, 08:21 AM
Personally, unlike everyone else here, I don't believe this is primarily contract related. I believe Harvin is generally concerned/unhappy about possibly the way the camps/practices are being run or the direction they are heading with their schemes/plans. Perhaps certain coaches & their lack of knowledge/teaching skills have Harvin upset. Could even be where they placed him on the depth charts.

If it was simply a contract issue, I think we'd have heard about it prior to day 1 of mandatory camp & he probably wouldn't have even shown up today.

Something he saw today at camp today has him unhappy. It isn't always contract related. Could be he has a legitimate concern just like Birk & Winfield did when Childress tried to run camp with an iron fist & they had to confront him about it.

Especially considering from what we've heard, the KAO is still alive & pumping thru Frazier's veins.

I just have this feeling he believes there are a lot of things in disarray or in a clusterfuck if you prefer, on the football side of things.

This certainly could be the case. He definitely could be a superstar in the right spot.

Musgrave did seem to figure Harvin out more as the year went on in 2011 though. So, hopefully,they can all get back on the same page.

marshallvike
07-13-2012, 09:29 AM
Report: Harvin wants extension after season - NFL- NBC Sports (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/48156376/sports/player_news)


According to ESPN 1500 Twin Cities, Percy Harvin "has no intention" of playing for the Vikings in 2013 without a new contract.

and this.

Long-term contract details may determine Harvin’s Vikings fate | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/12/contract-details-may-determine-harvins-vikings-fate/)


Harvinís mindset is that the upcoming season will be his last in Minnesota if his long-term contract demands are not met.

Caine
07-13-2012, 12:22 PM
Can't blame him. He's underused and underpaid. He could be 10x the receiver Steve Smith is in Carolina, but our staff thinks he's undersized and fragile (using him on only 48% of offensive snaps last season). Fact of the matter, our coaching staff completely lacks any ability to develop, or use, talent effectively. It's been that way since 2006.

This sounds familiar... have I said this before?

OK, who are you, and what have you done with C Mac?

I agree 100%...



...which frightens me....


Caine

C Mac D
07-13-2012, 12:34 PM
OK, who are you, and what have you done with C Mac?

I agree 100%...



...which frightens me....


Caine

We usually see eye-to-eye these days. Thank goodness the Favre/Jackson issue is in the past.

tastywaves
07-13-2012, 01:28 PM
Report: Harvin wants extension after season - NFL- NBC Sports (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/48156376/sports/player_news)



and this.

Long-term contract details may determine Harvinís Vikings fate | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/12/contract-details-may-determine-harvins-vikings-fate/)

Hmmm, I was led to believe his beefs had nothing to do with money.

mountainviking
07-13-2012, 02:47 PM
The guy deserves more money and more reps, pretty sure any idiot, even our coaches, can see that. But, really, 87 catches + 52 rushes + 16 returns isn't completely, under-used. That's 155 touches right there or dam near 10 touches a game. That's pretty high for a reciever and doesn't include the failed targets he had. I'd trade a few rushes and returns for getting him over 100 catches, but I'm not sure how much more you'd want to work him...he alreadys seems to miss practice alot due to dings and dents...but as a decoy, he should still be on the field more.

Of course money is part of it...he's proved his worth and is pretty much getting paid vet minimum. But I got a feeling a big part of his "issues" is that he's not real fond of how much the Vikings are practicing and looking at that 2-TE set, cuz his strength is the slot, which isn't going to see the field much with 2 TEs out there. And then there's where and what we added as other weapons this off season too...a high paid TE, a suspended one year wondering if he can do it again WR and the other WRs not until the 4th round with the first one being kind of a Harvin clone and the other a guy who still hasn't played or practiced for over a year. I'd bet Harvin was hoping for somebody to attract a lil attention opposite him, not a potential/developmental and positional replacement. That's where Frazier stepped in and said, look, we're going to use you, we'd be nuts not to.

I think the kid's got way too much talent to let walk, his multi threat is too important to our offense. And really, the injury thing is a bit overblown...he misses practice, but not many games. Sure, there are a few routes he's not great at, or maybe its that missed practice, and some DBs have a bit of a size advantage, but with the ball in his hands, he's pretty damn near Peterson's equal if you sum up their combination of speed, moves, power, and balance, and that is incredibly impressive.

tastywaves
07-13-2012, 03:25 PM
The guy deserves more money and more reps, pretty sure any idiot, even our coaches, can see that. But, really, 87 catches + 52 rushes + 16 returns isn't completely, under-used. That's 155 touches right there or dam near 10 touches a game. That's pretty high for a reciever and doesn't include the failed targets he had. I'd trade a few rushes and returns for getting him over 100 catches, but I'm not sure how much more you'd want to work him...he alreadys seems to miss practice alot due to dings and dents...but as a decoy, he should still be on the field more.

Of course money is part of it...he's proved his worth and is pretty much getting paid vet minimum. But I got a feeling a big part of his "issues" is that he's not real fond of how much the Vikings are practicing and looking at that 2-TE set, cuz his strength is the slot, which isn't going to see the field much with 2 TEs out there. And then there's where and what we added as other weapons this off season too...a high paid TE, a suspended one year wondering if he can do it again WR and the other WRs not until the 4th round with the first one being kind of a Harvin clone and the other a guy who still hasn't played or practiced for over a year. I'd bet Harvin was hoping for somebody to attract a lil attention opposite him, not a potential/developmental and positional replacement. That's where Frazier stepped in and said, look, we're going to use you, we'd be nuts not to.

I think the kid's got way too much talent to let walk, his multi threat is too important to our offense. And really, the injury thing is a bit overblown...he misses practice, but not many games. Sure, there are a few routes he's not great at, or maybe its that missed practice, and some DBs have a bit of a size advantage, but with the ball in his hands, he's pretty damn near Peterson's equal if you sum up their combination of speed, moves, power, and balance, and that is incredibly impressive.

Wes Welker had 122 catches last year on an offense that largely featured a lot of 2 TE sets with Gronk and Hernandez. Together those three had close to 300 catches.

They also had Tom Brady. Ponder is probably where Percy has more concern in relation to what kind of production he will have going into his contract year.

He's about the contract, and the longer the term the better. He has an injury history and he is a higher risk player. I would be trying to do the same if I was in his shoes. But, I also understand the Vikings position.

mountainviking
07-13-2012, 05:28 PM
I think they'll work it out. Ya know, a lil compromise...you gotta give him some money up front, a good-sized signing bonus with low salary year one. That stretches the big bucks over the contract length and gives him what he wants: more money now. Then you split the remaining years between a moderate salary and roster bonuses, protecting the team against injury and/or headaches (that he has or causes!) ;)

Maybe 20 mill to sign for five years, 1 mill salary year 1, maybe guarantee year 2 at 6 mill, then 3-5 mill in salary AND end of season roster bonus for years 3-5. He averages about 10 mill/year. Not quite Fitz or Vincent Jackson money, but not far off and you know these things just keep going up.

As for Ponder, I just watched some highlights, and I think he's got potential. He nails some really tight throws and should be much improved with a better OL and targets around him. He and Rudolf had some stellar connections last season, and both should be better with a full off-season added to the experience they got last year. Check it out...I know, its highlights, but it does give me some hope we might have a QB.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfhY

shockzilla
07-13-2012, 05:46 PM
I think they'll work it out. Ya know, a lil compromise...you gotta give him some money up front, a good-sized signing bonus with low salary year one. That stretches the big bucks over the contract length and gives him what he wants: more money now. Then you split the remaining years between a moderate salary and roster bonuses, protecting the team against injury and/or headaches (that he has or causes!) ;)

Maybe 20 mill to sign for five years, 1 mill salary year 1, maybe guarantee year 2 at 6 mill, then 3-5 mill in salary AND end of season roster bonus for years 3-5. He averages about 10 mill/year. Not quite Fitz or Vincent Jackson money, but not far off and you know these things just keep going up.

As for Ponder, I just watched some highlights, and I think he's got potential. He nails some really tight throws and should be much improved with a better OL and targets around him. He and Rudolf had some stellar connections last season, and both should be better with a full off-season added to the experience they got last year. Check it out...I know, its highlights, but it does give me some hope we might have a QB.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfhY
Heard Bob Lurtsema on KFAN this morning, talking about Ponder. He thinks Ponder is the Vikings' guy and has all the smarts and tools to do well. I agree.

thorshammer
07-13-2012, 08:00 PM
Pay the man .... his effort is 100+% all the time ... not easy to find.

MaxVike
07-13-2012, 09:48 PM
I deserve more money. Cry me a river... Contract signed, buck up.

marshallvike
07-14-2012, 11:07 AM
Hmmm, I was led to believe his beefs had nothing to do with money.

Hope he's not becoming another primadonna, "I'm the whole team", wide receiver we have become accustomed to seeing lately.

singersp
07-15-2012, 11:21 AM
As for Ponder, I just watched some highlights, and I think he's got potential. He nails some really tight throws and should be much improved with a better OL and targets around him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfhY

Two things those highlights reiterate;

1. Just how much of a playmaker Harvin is & what he can do after catching the ball.

2. The Vikings screwed the pooch by not retaining Shiancoe & using him & Rudolph in 2 TE sets, along with Harvin as the WR.

Caine
07-15-2012, 11:37 AM
Two things those highlights reiterate;

1. Just how much of a playmaker Harvin is & what he can do after catching the ball.

2. The Vikings screwed the pooch by not retaining Shiancoe & using him & Rudolph in 2 TE sets, along with Harvin as the WR.

Was never a big Shiancoe fan. Thought he under produced for his contract, and was never thrilled with his hands. Hope Rudolph turns out better.

Caine

singersp
07-15-2012, 03:06 PM
Was never a big Shiancoe fan. Thought he under produced for his contract, and was never thrilled with his hands. Hope Rudolph turns out better.

Caine

He got a huge contract mainly because there was a lack of good TE's available in the year and at the time he was signed by the vikings. At the time, I thought they overpaid as well.

marshallvike
07-15-2012, 07:35 PM
Was never a big Shiancoe fan. Thought he under produced for his contract, and was never thrilled with his hands. Hope Rudolph turns out better.

Caine

+1 on both accounts
I didn't dislike Shiancoe, just thought he was too inconsistent.
Rudolf looks to be the real thing if he can get past our coaching staff onto the field.

singersp
07-16-2012, 07:34 AM
+1 on both accounts
I didn't dislike Shiancoe, just thought he was too inconsistent.
Rudolf looks to be the real thing if he can get past our coaching staff onto the field.

Rudolph has great hands, was catching virtually everything thrown to him & I couldn't understand why Fraser/Musgrove didn't play him more.

Now with Shiancoe & Jimmy K. both being gone, he almost has to. Given our staff though, they will probably play Carlson more.

PackSux!
07-16-2012, 07:10 PM
Hopefully Carlson can have a rebound year and all is forgotten about Shank. I am not sold on Musgrove yet as his play calling last season was very confusing.