PDA

View Full Version : Fin Fan here....



Surtain
03-05-2005, 12:47 PM
I was on our board and I came across a "trade idea" made by one of the more respected posters on our forum.

I thought I would bounce it off you guys and get your thoughts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that the Moss deal is official, reports from CBS Sportsline have the Vikings GM making a call to the Dolphins about Surtain. It is no wonder to me, since now the Vikings have two first round picks in their possession.

Personally, though, I think the Dolphins and one-time Dolphin personnel exec Rob Brzezinski have a LOT to talk about, not just Surtain and their #18 pick or 2nd rounder. Among the topics of discussion: the #2 overall selection, the #7 overall selection, the #18 overall selection, michael bennett, patrick surtain, and possibly our 3rd round pick and some other lower round picks of both the dolphins and vikings.

Minnesota is a team that wants to make their run RIGHT NOW, especially with Reggie Fowler coming on as owner, and he will likely want to make a splash to impress the Vikings fans and make them forget about Randy Moss. Will either Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams be available to the Vikings at #7? Who knows, supposedly the Bucs have told Mike Williams that he will be their selection at #5. Braylon we know could go #1 overall, and if not, definitely gone by #4 where Chicago picks. If the Vikings do not get Plaxico Burress, all the sudden they have a Moss-less WR corp and probably need one of the top 5 picks in the draft to assure themselves of Edwards or Williams.

I'm thinking a blockbuster deal that could involve giving the #2, Surtain, and our third round pick for their #7 and #18, and Michael Bennett.

IMO, that would give us a runner with world class speed, experience in Linehan's offense, and injury issues that could be assuaged by the presence of Lamar Gordon and Sammy Morris. Drafting at the #7 spot also puts us in prime position to get LT Alex Barron, and drafting at #18 would put us in good position to get a TALENTED player, whether that be someone like Marcus Spears, Travis Johnson, David Pollack, or perhaps Carlos Rogers (who ran a blazing 40 at the combine) to replace Surtain.

Coupled with a free agency that could include guys like Kenoy Kennedy and Kevin Carter if we're lucky, but most definitely other cogs in the Saban defense if we're not so lucky, I believe these moves would give us very little excuse for losing in 2005 and beyond.

My only concern would be that we would have placed the future of the offense in AJ Feeley's hands, and he has not proven his hands are worthy of that.

Key points:

1. Saban's own words. He said that the offensive line does not need an overhaul. In fact, he said that they really only need ONE player. The Dolphins so far, do not look like they've gone after that "one player" in free agency. Mike Wahle and Jonas Jennings certainly could have been considered that "one player" but it does not appear we even sniffed at either of them. We'll see what continues to happen in FA, but perhaps Alex Barron is that "one player" (he's a favorite of mine, so I'm biased).

2. Again, Saban's own words. He spoke of drafting a "passrusher" or "shut-down corner" With the 40 that Carlos Rogers belted out, all the sudden he gets put in candidacy to be considered a "shut-down corner" and we all know that Saban is likely partial to his own DE Marcus Spears who could definitely play 3-4 DE or 4-3 DE. But, on Sirius radio's "afternoon blitz" they did an interview with David Pollack, and he revealed that there were a "number" of teams that interviewed him and asked him a LOOOT of questions about becoming a OLB in the 3-4. When the host asked him the question Pollack kind of revealed it as somewhat of a secret too.

3. I know there are concerns with Michael Bennett's injury problems. But, when healthy, this guy was an awesome runner in Linehan's wide open offense. I can definitely think of guys that have missed more than 16 games over the course of 4 years. On top of it, with the speed that Gordon has, he's somewhat of a Bennett clone, and could probably fill in very nicely for Bennett when Mike misses his predictable 3 or 4 games a year. Sammy Morris (or Ron Dayne?) could also couple with Bennett to give us goal line options as well as a speedy open runner. When healthy, Bennett is faster than any back in this year's draft, bar none.

4. The market for corners is going nuts right now. Gary Baxter turned DOWN a $10 million signing bonus from the Ravens. Anthony Henry got a $12 million signing bonus from the Cowboys, and the Patriots just traded a 3rd round pick for the inconsistent CB Duane Starks. Samari Rolle, Ty Law, Fred Smoot, and Ken Lucas are all still out there, but, seriously, how much are THEY going to want??? Pat Surtain, because of his trade situation, is operating under more constraints and will probably end up getting a $15 million signing bonus, if that. Is he that much better than Anthony Henry, Gary Baxter, and Ken Lucas? Yes. Will he get as much money, with his trade situation, as Samari Rolle or Fred Smoot? No. Trading for Surtain LOOKS attractive.

5. This is not a one-way street. Minnesota has to think this makes sense too. But Reggie Fowler really needs to get the fans on board with the new look, because one thing Randy unarguably was able to do was CONSISTENTLY put butts in those seats on game day. Right now Tice is looking at having the #7 pick, which may not be high enough to get Braylon Edwards, Mike Williams, OR Adam "Pac-Man" Jones. It's good enough to get a runner but they've got 3 of them already. It would be good enough to get Troy Williamson, but is he worth it at #7? They got Napolean Harris, they got Pat Williams, and now it's time to get the secondary up to par too. They have #7 and #18, could use those picks on a passrusher like Dan Cody or Erasmus James and a CB like Rogers or Rolle, or they could trade that #7 for the pick that would virtually ASSURE them of getting Braylon Edwards, and if not then Mike Williams, give up the #18 for a "shut-down CB" in Pat Surtain, and empty out one of the three overqualified runners in their backfield, and pick up a 3rd round pick at the same time. It makes sense to me if I were them. And it makes sense to us, too, IMO.

__________________
-Stark DÃ¥lig


Â

V4L
03-05-2005, 12:55 PM
wow that was a long post.. it was ur first also.. welcome to the board!! we've been hearing rumors about surtain for bennett and our 2nd round pick.. i really would love to do that trade.. how do u like that trade? if surtain came to the vikes would ya watch more vikes?

Surtain
03-05-2005, 01:10 PM
"Vikez4Lyfe" wrote:

wow that was a long post.. it was ur first also.. welcome to the board!! we've been hearing rumors about surtain for bennett and our 2nd round pick.. i really would love to do that trade.. how do u like that trade? if surtain came to the vikes would ya watch more vikes?


I would do Bennett and a Second for Surtain.We really cant afford to keep Surtain, and it will be a sad day when he goes.

2004 was our first losing season in 15 years. However our pass defense was still ranked #1 in the league, and Surtain is a huge reason why.

Surtain is the best corner in the game,IMO. I mean, I cant really say that there is anyone better. This guy or that guy might be of "similar caliber" but not better.

Kleinsasser40
03-05-2005, 01:34 PM
"coreychavous21" wrote:

dolphins suck

These are the people you need to ignore. Sorry about this comment Surtain...

PurplePeopleEaters
03-05-2005, 01:41 PM
"Kleinsasser40" wrote:

"coreychavous21" wrote:

dolphins suck

These are the people you need to ignore. Sorry about this comment Surtain...

I agree. don't get a bad impression of vikes fans from one person. Welcome to the board.

ultravikingfan
03-05-2005, 01:53 PM
Good post.

I would do the deal: involve giving the #2, Surtain, and our third round pick for their #7 and #18, and Michael Bennett.

That would fill needs for both our teams without really hurting our draft.

BTW, ignore the comment above.

PurplePeopleEaters
03-05-2005, 02:46 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

Good post.

I would do the deal: involve giving the #2, Surtain, and our third round pick for their #7 and #18, and Michael Bennett.

That would fill needs for both our teams without really hurting our draft.

BTW, ignore the comment above.

Which comment????

English Vike
03-05-2005, 02:50 PM
im sure the "dolphins suck" one and not yours! far be it from me to speak for another.

trade looks very interesting to me, id have a serious think about that at the very least, thanks for sharing it

KY Vike
03-05-2005, 02:57 PM
dolphins do not suck...i can see them having a run at a wild card next year if they work up their offense because their defense is pretty good right now.

jackyl
03-05-2005, 05:52 PM
"coreychavous21" wrote:

dolphins suck

So does North Dakota. What's your point?

XxS2TheEvoxX
03-05-2005, 06:03 PM
"coreychavous21" wrote:

dolphins suck

Way to be ignorant...

The guy posts here being friendly, and you give him a remark like that...

Ugh.

Anyway, nice post man. Good to have some other fans other then Vikings fans here to hear their insite on things.

muchluv4smoot
03-05-2005, 06:13 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

Good post.

I would do the deal: involve giving the #2, Surtain, and our third round pick for their #7 and #18, and Michael Bennett.

That would fill needs for both our teams without really hurting our draft.

BTW, ignore the comment above.


I love that trade idea too. I found this today however:

Seahawks | Front-Runner to Acquire Surtain - from www.KFFL.com
Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:28:03 -0800

Updating a previous report, Alex Marvez, of the Miami Sun-Sentinel, reports the Seattle Seahawks have emerged as the front-runner to acquire CB Patrick Surtain from the Miami Dolphins. As reported, Surtain is on the trading block.

ElBarto
03-05-2005, 06:43 PM
If the Dolphins put that on the table we'd be hard pressed to turn it down.

With a high 3rd round pick maybe we could get Mike Nugent.

Isn't Surtain due a big bonus though :?

Red + paying big $$$ = no trade :x

ultravikingfan
03-06-2005, 01:04 PM
"jackyl" wrote:

"coreychavous21" wrote:

dolphins suck

So does North Dakota. What's your point?

Hey now! Just because one guy from ND needs to get with the program doesn't mean NoDak sucks! I am from NoDak.
Every state has their fair share of these people! :lol:

jackyl
03-06-2005, 02:10 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

Hey now! Just because one guy from ND needs to get with the program doesn't mean NoDak sucks! I am from NoDak.
Every state has their fair share of these people! :lol:

:lol: True. Maybe I should just edit his post to say " Don't mind me, I'm an idiot. " :thumbleft:

AngloVike
03-06-2005, 02:30 PM
"ElBarto" wrote:

If the Dolphins put that on the table we'd be hard pressed to turn it down.

With a high 3rd round pick maybe we could get Mike Nugent.

Isn't Surtain due a big bonus though :?

Red + paying big $$$ = no trade :x

now ain't that the truth !

muchluv4smoot
03-06-2005, 02:43 PM
"jackyl" wrote:

"coreychavous21" wrote:

dolphins suck

So does North Dakota. What's your point?



That was almost as out of line as his dolphins suck line. I take offense to that.

jackyl
03-06-2005, 03:06 PM
You'll get over it though. My point wasn't about ND, it was that comments like his have no place here.:thumbright:

muchluv4smoot
03-06-2005, 03:58 PM
"jackyl" wrote:

You'll get over it though. My point wasn't about ND, it was that comments like his have no place here.:thumbright:


Yeah, he has made a lot of those lately, has he been banned yet?

jackyl
03-06-2005, 05:10 PM
Not yet, but he's being watched.

ultravikingfan
03-06-2005, 07:19 PM
"jackyl" wrote:

You'll get over it though. My point wasn't about ND, it was that comments like his have no place here.:thumbright:

I am not over it yet! :lol:

Someday I'll tell you what is NoDaks call Minnesota hunters! :lol:

jackyl
03-06-2005, 07:47 PM
I don't hunt, and i'm from the west coast, so it's all good. :lol:

ultravikingfan
03-06-2005, 07:49 PM
"jackyl" wrote:

I don't hunt, and i'm from the west coast, so it's all good. :lol:

Where California? I'm not even to go there! :lol:

iluvbigtds
03-06-2005, 08:56 PM
What's up guys? First post here, but I've been pretty active in the ESPN board and I follow FA and the Vikes religiously.

Some of you guys have said that you would really think about giving up Bennett and a 2nd for Surtain. However, I found evidence that the Chiefs refused to give up much less than that for his services.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/11004017.htm


"More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss."

VKG4LFE
03-06-2005, 09:24 PM
Welcome aboard!

muchluv4smoot
03-06-2005, 10:15 PM
"iluvbigtds" wrote:

What's up guys? First post here, but I've been pretty active in the ESPN board and I follow FA and the Vikes religiously.

Some of you guys have said that you would really think about giving up Bennett and a 2nd for Surtain. However, I found evidence that the Chiefs refused to give up much less than that for his services.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/11004017.htm


"More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss."



I think KC is pretty close to getting rolle, unless the redskins outbid them, so it looks like they are out. I heard that seattle was now the front runner to get surtain.

ultravikingfan
03-06-2005, 10:30 PM
"muchluv4moss" wrote:

"iluvbigtds" wrote:

What's up guys? First post here, but I've been pretty active in the ESPN board and I follow FA and the Vikes religiously.

Some of you guys have said that you would really think about giving up Bennett and a 2nd for Surtain. However, I found evidence that the Chiefs refused to give up much less than that for his services.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/11004017.htm


"More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss."



I think KC is pretty close to getting rolle, unless the redskins outbid them, so it looks like they are out. I heard that seattle was now the front runner to get surtain.

Got any more good news? I am about to go stick my head in the oven. :angryfire:

muchluv4smoot
03-06-2005, 10:36 PM
It's been crazy slow today. Should pick up tomorrow though, with a lot of scheduled visits, unfortunately I haven't heard of any to the vikes tomorrow. All I have heard that is definite, is freddie jones I believe is coming in on tuesday. When will we bring in some D players to visit? I know ESPN radio said we will bring hartwell and kennedy in, but we don't have any visits scheduled with either yet and they are visitning other teams right now. Detroit will probably offer kennedy a contract, so we better hope he waits to come here before deciding. Also, denny had hartwell in yesterday or today, and arizona has a lot of money, so we better hope they don't offer him a big contract before we can schedule him for a visit. BRING SOME D@MN PLAYERS IN FOR A VISIT ALREADY!

VKG4LFE
03-06-2005, 10:40 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"muchluv4moss" wrote:

"iluvbigtds" wrote:

What's up guys? First post here, but I've been pretty active in the ESPN board and I follow FA and the Vikes religiously.

Some of you guys have said that you would really think about giving up Bennett and a 2nd for Surtain. However, I found evidence that the Chiefs refused to give up much less than that for his services.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/11004017.htm


"More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss."



I think KC is pretty close to getting rolle, unless the redskins outbid them, so it looks like they are out. I heard that seattle was now the front runner to get surtain.

Got any more good news? I am about to go stick my head in the oven. :angryfire:


Now, now, let's not go to any psychotic extremes there ultra!!!

ultravikingfan
03-06-2005, 10:59 PM
I try to stay positive, but it is the Vikes we are talking about! :wink:

muchluv4smoot
03-06-2005, 11:00 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

I try to stay positive, but it is the Vikes we are talking about! :wink:


Things will change once folwer gets the team.

jackyl
03-06-2005, 11:25 PM
"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"jackyl" wrote:

I don't hunt, and i'm from the west coast, so it's all good. :lol:

Where California? I'm not even to go there! :lol:

:lol: No PNW

ultravikingfan
03-06-2005, 11:38 PM
"jackyl" wrote:

"ultravikingfan" wrote:

"jackyl" wrote:

I don't hunt, and i'm from the west coast, so it's all good. :lol:

Where California? I'm not even to go there! :lol:

:lol: No PNW

Nice! I have heard a lot of good things about that area. I have always wanted to visit the PNW.

jackyl
03-07-2005, 12:12 AM
There's only 2 seasons though. Hot rain and cold rain. :lol: After living there most of my life, I'm glad to be out. Beautiful country, but wet 24/7 365 it seems.

Del Rio
03-07-2005, 08:09 AM
This year in this draft no way. #2 means no more then a number 7. You have no clue who you are going to get who will be left who will do what when they get here.

I'd rather have 2 first round picks then 1 high one. Surtain has a heafty ammount of financial baggage attached to him. I like the deal that includes Chris Chambers and Surtain better.

In any other draft year where there is a CLEAR top 5 picks I might consider it. This year there is so much talent it is going to be about quanity not rank. Also the way Tice has been drafting the last few years I am excited to see what they can do.

PurpleAndy
03-07-2005, 10:36 AM
I'd take Surtain for Bennett and a 3rd rounder. A 2nd rounder is a bit of a reach for me because Surtain is no spring chicken.

However, even if the Dolphins were to acquire Bennett, I'm not sure he'd flourish there. Bennett is great once he gets outside, but the fact remains that the Dolphins still don't have much of an offensive line. It still seems to me that the best fit for the Dolphins would be Cedric Benson. However, a Cedric Benson - Michael Bennett combination would definitely turn some heads. It would be similar to the Giants' Thunder and Lightning a few years back with Ron Dayne and Tiki Barber, except in the case of the Dolphins, the thunder wouldn't suck.

Since I'm still new here, I feel its necessary to note that anyone who takes the time to create a Jose Cortez signature is hardcore. Hats off to you Jackyl!

jackyl
03-07-2005, 11:21 AM
:lol: PA. Welcome to the site!

sitandbehitski
03-07-2005, 12:08 PM
"It would be similar to the Giants' Thunder and Lightning a few years back with Ron Dayne and Tiki Barber, except in the case of the Dolphins, the thunder wouldn't suck."

ROFL!!!! That's awesome!!!