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singersp
04-28-2012, 12:48 PM
I don't know enough about the WR to say how good of a pick that was.

Outside of that, I didn't like the FB pick at all.

We lost two G's this offseason (Hutch & Hererra) & needed to address that. 2 of Mel's top 4 remaining players were OG's. Troy Brown & Brandon Washington. There was an OT as his #5 as well.

I felt the pick would have better been spent on Brown.

kevoncox
04-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Wright is a speedster. Great in beating the zones. Problem are beating the jam and initial press coverages. The problem with that is that regulates him to the slot. We already have one of those.

skum
04-28-2012, 01:07 PM
Both the WR we selected are short passing guys, dink and dunk offense..

We needed someone who can play the outside reciever spot or else we are going to spend the whole year seing Aromashudo doing it and i don't want that..

Childs also has major injury concerns with a knee injury that has slowed his production in a major way.. I would have liked Juron Criner over these guys..

The FB/TE is a pass-blocker type of guy who is a replacement for Kleinasser proberly, but i don't get it, because we signed Carlson, Shuler, Asiate, Hilliard, Felton in free agency who covers either TE and FB.. It was not a need like LB, S or WR..

kevoncox
04-28-2012, 01:12 PM
Both the WR we selected are short passing guys, dink and dunk offense..

We needed someone who can play the outside reciever spot or else we are going to spend the whole year seing Aromashudo doing it and i don't want that..

Childs also has major injury concerns with a knee injury that has slowed his production in a major way.. I would have liked Juron Criner over these guys..

The FB/TE is a pass-blocker type of guy who is a replacement for Kleinasser proberly, but i don't get it, because we signed Carlson, Shuler, Asiate, Hilliard, Felton in free agency who covers either TE and FB.. It was not a need like LB, S or WR..

Childs came back too early and it hurt his production. Add to the fact that Wright and Adams burst unto the scene and he was used less and less. However, he started to get healthy as the season went on and ran well at his proday.

ConnecticutViking
04-28-2012, 01:45 PM
Not loving our 4th round at all! FB? we could have used a G, MLB, WR, DT, S in that spot? The two WR we picked are scout team heroes. IDK, this is only my thought.

jargomcfargo
04-28-2012, 02:04 PM
Spielman seems to be sticking to his board which I like. Picking based solely on need in the late rounds is less successful than taking BPA.
Can't fill all the holes in one draft.
I do like the fact he saved a 4th round pick for next year.
He's building a foundation through the draft. In a year or two he will have less holes to plug and have the salary cap under better control. That's when he will be more aggressive in free agency.

I think Spielman is sticking to a formula that will work. But it's going to take some time.

Who thought we were going to be a playoff team this year anyway?

We will be a better team than last year and a playoff contender one or two years later.

Freakout
04-28-2012, 02:15 PM
Childs ran 4.39 40 on his Pro-Day with a 40 inch vertical.

vikinggreg
04-28-2012, 02:17 PM
I don't know enough about the WR to say how good of a pick that was.

Outside of that, I didn't like the FB pick at all.

We lost two G's this offseason (Hutch & Hererra) & needed to address that. 2 of Mel's top 4 remaining players were OG's. Troy Brown & Brandon Washington. There was an OT as his #5 as well.

I felt the pick would have better been spent on Brown.

Is that James Brown from Troy the tackle projected to be a guard...thats still available and the fifth round is just about over?

iowa
04-28-2012, 02:22 PM
Love the Arkansas wideouts,Childs is an athletic freak and Wright is a burner who can stretch the field, not crazy about taking Ellison where we did, good player but a little early and not as big of a need as other positions.

hogfan
04-28-2012, 02:37 PM
Both the WR we selected are short passing guys, dink and dunk offense..

Childs also has major injury concerns with a knee injury that has slowed his production in a major way.. I would have liked Juron Criner over these guys..



With all due respect, the Bobby Petrino pro-style offense we ran at Arkansas was far from dink and dunk. Childs was the beast of the trio of receivers (Wright, Adams, Childs) his freshmen and soph years.

Childs was the outside receiver that could go deep and get the jump ball. He's a physical receiver. With Ryan Mallett at QB, dink and dunk was the last thing we did. If anything, Joe Adams was the bubble screen, slot guy that we used to get out in space. Before his injury, Childs was up there with Julio Jones of Bama and AJ Green of Georgia as the top 3 receivers in the SEC. His junior year was cut short due to the injury (prior to his junior year, we all knew he was coming out early), and he rushed back to play for his senior year. Near the end of the year he started looking like his old form after the first half of the year playing very tentative.

Once Mallett left and Tyler Wilson took over, we lost the Mallett arm strength that could get the ball to the far and deep outside. Wilson fell in love with Wright as the speed receiver running the deep seam routes. I can't count how many receptions Wright had 25+ yards up field between the hashes, and he has great hands.

Obviously I'm a hog fan and want our guys to do well. I'm not here to say they're both going to be all pro. Who the heck knows. But we didn't run the typical dink and dunk spread that has taken over college football. That wasn't Petrino's offense.

I think Wright could do good things for the Vikings. I think Childs, once he gets completely healthy and I think he's there, could be a very solid receiver for your team for years to come.

kevoncox
04-28-2012, 02:46 PM
With all due respect, the Bobby Petrino pro-style offense we ran at Arkansas was far from dink and dunk. Childs was the beast of the trio of receivers (Wright, Adams, Childs) his freshmen and soph years.

Childs was the outside receiver that could go deep and get the jump ball. He's a physical receiver. With Ryan Mallett at QB, dink and dunk was the last thing we did. If anything, Joe Adams was the bubble screen, slot guy that we used to get out in space. Before his injury, Childs was up there with Julio Jones of Bama and AJ Green of Georgia as the top 3 receivers in the SEC. His junior year was cut short due to the injury (prior to his junior year, we all knew he was coming out early), and he rushed back to play for his senior year. Near the end of the year he started looking like his old form after the first half of the year playing very tentative.

Once Mallett left and Tyler Wilson took over, we lost the Mallett arm strength that could get the ball to the far and deep outside. Wilson fell in love with Wright as the speed receiver running the deep seam routes. I can't count how many receptions Wright had 25+ yards up field between the hashes, and he has great hands.

Obviously I'm a hog fan and want our guys to do well. I'm not here to say they're both going to be all pro. Who the heck knows. But we didn't run the typical dink and dunk spread that has taken over college football. That wasn't Petrino's offense.

I think Wright could do good things for the Vikings. I think Childs, once he gets completely healthy and I think he's there, could be a very solid receiver for your team for years to come.

Thanks for posting. I think Childs has talent. The issue is will he ever be his former self. I believe that he got better as the year went along but how far from "him" is he? I believe these players are talented players but we took them in spots I wouldn't. I would have love to have Childs where we got him but Randle at the end of the 2nd instead of Wright.

hogfan
04-28-2012, 03:07 PM
Thanks for posting. I think Childs has talent. The issue is will he ever be his former self. I believe that he got better as the year went along but how far from "him" is he? I believe these players are talented players but we took them in spots I wouldn't. I would have love to have Childs where we got him but Randle at the end of the 2nd instead of Wright.

I can't really answer how far from "him" he is, but the further away from his injury the better. He slowly showed signs of what he was near the end of last year, and I think most of it was the fear and trusting his recovery. I think his ceiling is pretty high.

As far as other parts of the game besides routes, etc, all of our receivers loved downfield blocking. They'll fit in with those skills and attitude for AP.

I don't know the Vikings draft needs and haven't paid any attention to what you guys needed, so I can't say where you picked them is good or bad. I'm a Browns fan unfortunately, and that decision I made when I was in 4th grade is one that I've definitely regretted :(.

My main reply was to the dink and dunk offense and that's nothing of what we ran at Arkansas, and trying to clear up a bit about Childs and his injury. Obviously no one knows how "over" he is with his injury, but he is a tough kid and a very hard worker.

Wright is a good matchup vs linebackers and 3rd and 4th cornerbacks in the middle of the field. He's really good at finding the open spots running the north and south, up the field routes. He destroyed Texas A&M last year with 290+ receiving yards. It seemed all of it was between the hashes and 25+ yards down field. Game fast and sure hands.

Both guys are high character, intelligent guys and will give the Vikings all they have.

We all know judging these draft picks won't be determined until years 2-3.

Now I'm waiting for Trent Richardson to tear his knee at the first preseason game :mad:

kevoncox
04-28-2012, 03:12 PM
I can't really answer how far from "him" he is, but the further away from his injury the better. He slowly showed signs of what he was near the end of last year, and I think most of it was the fear and trusting his recovery. I think his ceiling is pretty high.

As far as other parts of the game besides routes, etc, all of our receivers loved downfield blocking. They'll fit in with those skills and attitude for AP.

I don't know the Vikings draft needs and haven't paid any attention to what you guys needed, so I can't say where you picked them is good or bad. I'm a Browns fan unfortunately, and that decision I made when I was in 4th grade is one that I've definitely regretted :(.

My main reply was to the dink and dunk offense and that's nothing of what we ran at Arkansas, and trying to clear up a bit about Childs and his injury. Obviously no one knows how "over" he is with his injury, but he is a tough kid and a very hard worker.

Wright is a good matchup vs linebackers and 3rd and 4th cornerbacks in the middle of the field. He's really good at finding the open spots running the north and south, up the field routes. He destroyed Texas A&M last year with 290+ receiving yards. It seemed all of it was between the hashes and 25+ yards down field. Game fast and sure hands.

Both guys are high character, intelligent guys and will give the Vikings all they have.

We all know judging these draft picks won't be determined until years 2-3.

Now I'm waiting for Trent Richardson to tear his knee at the first preseason game :mad:

Trent will have a good career. Chilly is your head coach and he loves to pound the rock. He did it early in Peterson's career and it worked well.

Wright is who I think he is. He is a poorer man's Harvin(not a knock at all) We already have that. We needed two polished wrs. 1 tall body ( like Childs) and another polished route runner. Harvin eats in the middle of the field and our on the edges.

hogfan
04-28-2012, 03:28 PM
Trent will have a good career. Chilly is your head coach and he loves to pound the rock. He did it early in Peterson's career and it worked well.

Wright is who I think he is. He is a poorer man's Harvin(not a knock at all) We already have that. We needed two polished wrs. 1 tall body ( like Childs) and another polished route runner. Harvin eats in the middle of the field and our on the edges.

Yeah I don't know your exact needs, so that will be TBD on the Wright pick.

You can complete the Warren High School, Arkansas Razorbacks, and Minnesota Vikings trifecta by drafting Chris Gragg next year. He's projected to the the top TE in the SEC and was the same year (medical redshirt in 2009) Greg and Jarius at Warren. Their high school team beat the piss out of everyone they played. ;)

singersp
04-28-2012, 03:38 PM
Childs ran 4.39 40 on his Pro-Day with a 40 inch vertical.

Troy Williamson ran the 40 in 4.32 seconds and had a 41-1/2 vertical.

Just saying.......

Freakout
04-28-2012, 03:44 PM
Troy Williamson ran the 40 in 4.32 seconds and had a 41-1/2 vertical.

Just saying.......

And Williamson was known to drop the ball before he was drafted.

vikinggreg
04-28-2012, 07:14 PM
I don't know enough about the WR to say how good of a pick that was.

Outside of that, I didn't like the FB pick at all.

We lost two G's this offseason (Hutch & Hererra) & needed to address that. 2 of Mel's top 4 remaining players were OG's. Troy Brown & Brandon Washington. There was an OT as his #5 as well.

I felt the pick would have better been spent on Brown.

Looks like Brown is still out there, I'd like to see the Vikings still try to get him but it also looks like it would take some time on the practise squad to develop him into a guard. I'll be keeping an eye out to see where he lands.

singersp
04-28-2012, 07:24 PM
Looks like Brown is still out there, I'd like to see the Vikings still try to get him but it also looks like it would take some time on the practise squad to develop him into a guard. I'll be keeping an eye out to see where he lands.

There are a few OL we should grab. Even if Schwartz, Johnson & Fusco take the open spots, we still need depth at those positions. Plus we haven't see how they will perform in their roles with our scheme.

Again, not fond of Loadholt at all. Too many penalties & gives up too many sacks.

Marrdro
04-29-2012, 07:07 AM
There are a few OL we should grab. Even if Schwartz, Johnson & Fusco take the open spots, we still need depth at those positions. Plus we haven't see how they will perform in their roles with our scheme.

Again, not fond of Loadholt at all. Too many penalties & gives up too many sacks.
Does Load give up the sacks or does the TE that is over there that is supposed to help him.

In the end, our OL is set, regardless of how you still don't like it and I think it will be fine. What I still want to know is what (how fricken many) schemes will our O-Line coach run this year, 1, 2, 3, 4????? My guess, you cut that down to 2 and you won't see as many penalties out of a guy like Load.

If you don't, my guess, you will be beeeyyyyatching this time next year on how bad a pick kalil was because of the number of penalties we see out of him.

In the end, it won't because of talent (i.e. Load) that these guys won't perform, it will be because of coaching. Nothing more, nothing less, regardless of what you seem to think. :haha: (....snicker....)

Marrdro
04-29-2012, 07:35 AM
I don't know enough about the WR to say how good of a pick that was.

Outside of that, I didn't like the FB pick at all.

We lost two G's this offseason (Hutch & Hererra) & needed to address that. 2 of Mel's top 4 remaining players were OG's. Troy Brown & Brandon Washington. There was an OT as his #5 as well.

I felt the pick would have better been spent on Brown.
LOL, Mel Kiper.......You crack me up.

Here's a few things to chew on....

a. How many of those G's still there were projected to start this year? Couldn't be many because most sites had only 3 as potential/imediate starters. In the end, those guys that were sitting there wouldn't beat out Degeare anyways, why draft one. Continue to develop the young talent you drafted last year and the year before instead of wasting a pick on talent that is at least 2 or 3 years behind what you have.

b. Why draft a T? Are you ready to give up on Load and if so why? Penalties? Sacks from his side that were given up when he pulled inside to the A and B gap leaving a TE alone?

In the end, we have lots of talent on the OL. Question is, do we have the coaching staff that can continue their development and if not, why continue to draft talent that will, in the end, let ole Singer down?

What you should do, is instead of looking at Kipers "Big Board" (I crack up just typing that) you should look at who was there 5 - 10 picks below what we took. Then you could get a discussion going on what/why/who they should have taken.

I for one trust what the teams did more than I trust some yutz like Kiper.

Available players...

WR Toon (I still like the WR's we got).
ILB JM Johnson.
DT J Chapman

Then and only then do you get to a G that could in anyway maybe make sense and that was a undersized, minimal reps and very few as a starter or a T that is nothing more than a TE/DE converted to OT that is a big reach and a project.

Adam Gettis Draft Profile (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/adam-gettis?id=2533449)
Brandon Mosley Draft Profile (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/brandon-mosley?id=2532918)

Again, Kiper be damned (LOL), you weren't going to get a OLmen there that was of any value and not one that could come in and start right away.

Instead they got a damn nice looking H-back that can come in and provide instant help as a blocking FB, a pass catching TE and most importantly, a player that comes onto the field that causes the D-coord to question his package/play call that is currently in (Run or is it a Pass).

Mix that in with a cat, that if he is healthy (most say he is) can not only stretch the field but also provide a target as a redzone threat, work the sideline (to tapper) and if necessary, stretch the field a bit. Hell, that doesn't even get into how good he is (and loves) to block in the running game.

Completing the package you started with by adding a nice fit for the scheme that can/will give Percy some help on the outside and in the slot with both of them on the field, or even give Percy a rep or two off both on offense as well as as a returner.

Seriously, not sure what your seeing, but I'm seeing alot of help here that will help Ponder not only as weapons, but as cats who will help the OL both in blocking as well as targets that can get open right away on 3 steps drops that will, in the end, help the OL in pass protection.

......LOL...Kiper....OG's....OT's........You really cracked me up and had me going with that one my friend. :clap:

singersp
04-29-2012, 07:35 AM
Does Load give up the sacks or does the TE that is over there that is supposed to help him.

In the end, our OL is set, regardless of how you still don't like it and I think it will be fine. What I still want to know is what (how fricken many) schemes will our O-Line coach run this year, 1, 2, 3, 4????? My guess, you cut that down to 2 and you won't see as many penalties out of a guy like Load.

If you don't, my guess, you will be beeeyyyyatching this time next year on how bad a pick kalil was because of the number of penalties we see out of him.

In the end, it won't because of talent (i.e. Load) that these guys won't perform, it will be because of coaching. Nothing more, nothing less, regardless of what you seem to think. :haha: (....snicker....)

We gave up 49 sacks last year. Of the 49, Loadholt gave up 9.5 of them.

You thought our OL was fine the last two years as well when in fact, it wasn't. When you give up that many sacks & your star running back is constantly getting nailed behind the line of scrimmage, there's a problem with the OL.

singersp
04-29-2012, 07:41 AM
LOL, Mel Kiper.......You crack me up.

I for one trust what the teams did more than I trust some yutz like Kiper.


Kiper also said the Vikings needed a warpig. :P

Marrdro
04-29-2012, 07:46 AM
Kiper also said the Vikings needed a warpig. :P
LOL, just more proof he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. I know some other yutz who has been on that band wagon for 4 years and to date we haven't got one.

Well played by the way. :bow:

MaxVike
04-29-2012, 08:01 AM
Kiper also said the Vikings needed a warpig. :P

I loved the segment when McShay and Dilfer abused Kiper about how much of a punk loser Burfict is... Kiper was high on Burfict and they peppered him with, ah, no, 17 personal fouls, never interested in the Team, alienated almost every team during the interview process, not a good teammate...production regressed dramatically from one year to the next.

Marrdro
04-29-2012, 08:02 AM
We gave up 49 sacks last year. Of the 49, Loadholt gave up 9.5 of them.

You thought our OL was fine the last two years as well when in fact, it wasn't. When you give up that many sacks & your star running back is constantly getting nailed behind the line of scrimmage, there's a problem with the OL.
There is a difference between fine, great and shit. I say fine based on were they were graded out (13th to 15th) 2010 and 2011. 2012 was a whole nuther story, but it was mostly related to our new O-line coaches insistence on running 4 different blocking schemes and they still graded out 19th overall in the league and they didn't look to bad when you compare them with actual QB hits.

If ole Musgrove would have put a few more WR's on the field, spreading the defenses out a bit, my guess is that not only would the hits go down, but so would alot of the sacks and that doesn't even get into the coaching....

Advanced NFL Stats - Offensive Line Statistics (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php)

Seriously, it was such a mess I actually saw Hutch pulling to spots that didn't even have a guy there to block. When that happens (HOF'r confused) you can't point the finger at the players, well, unless you just don't know any better, but have to look someplace else.


Again, answer my question. Who really gave up the sack? Saying the sack came from that end (LT), only puts the blame on the position, and not what really happened. I bet atleast 3 or 4 of them were a direct result of him starting to pull based on play call.

That my friend is coaching, not talent.

Marrdro
04-29-2012, 08:04 AM
I loved the segment when McShay and Dilfer abused Kiper about how much of a punk loser Burfict is... Kiper was high on Burfict and they peppered him with, ah, no, 17 personal fouls, never interested in the Team, alienated almost every team during the interview process, not a good teammate...production regressed dramatically from one year to the next.
I would have almost watch ESPN to see that my friend. Truth is, they have such shit coverage I didn't even turn them on. Watch NFLN the whole time.

singersp
04-29-2012, 08:09 AM
Continue to develop the young talent you drafted last year and the year before instead of wasting a pick on talent that is at least 2 or 3 years behind what you have.



So with your line of thinking, what you're saying is the Vikings wasted picks on 2 CB's & a S when they should be developing Raymond, Sanford, Asher Allen & Burton? ;)

mountainviking
04-29-2012, 10:56 AM
I think you're missing something if you see 3 open spots on our OL...Kalil is LT, most likely moving Charlie to LG, a position he's much better suited for, Sully is set in the middle, and Load has 1 more year to prove he's worth keeping. That leaves us with only RG as an open spot and a pile of players competing for it: DeGeare, Berger, Fusco, Schwartz, and Butch Lewis (whoever that is.) I see Schwartz as our multi-spot backup and insurance for the Load, but we also have D.Love, P.Brown and Valdez as OT competition too.

I too was hoping we'd move up for Rueben Randle in the late 2nd, but it would have cost us our 3rd, speedy CB/return guy Robinson, AND our first fourth, speedy-shifty WR Wright. Over the past ten+ years our secondary has consistently graded out as one of the worst in the league. I, for one, am stoked with the additions we made to correct that.

True, the FB/TE hybrid seemed a bit early, and really, I thought it was the Chiller who collected those guys!? ;)

But, he does give us some of the Jimmy we're missing. From NFL.com:


Ellison is a reliable blocker, both in-line and out of the backfield. He displays the same consistency in his pass-catching skills, both out of backfield and working upfield...a physical player who can bring a workman-like attitude to the facility.

Sounds like a great, blue-collar fit for the Vikes, and remember, we lost two TEs and only signed one. Just like Jimmy, he just won't run very far with the ball in his hands. ;)

After addressing our other needs first (and then watching some video), I loved pairing up the dangerous WR duo in the 4th!!! Both played 4 years, so they've got experience in Petrino's passing system with strong armed Mallet and his shorter passes replacement. Both WRs have timed in the low 4.4s and Wright ran the best 3-cone drill of the combine! They already have chemistry, and their strengths and weaknesses happen to be great complements to each other. The big Man-Childs has the size to shield defenders from the ball and out leap them to make the catch, and runs with some serious power and balance once he secures the ball while the lil one has incredible, quick-twitch feet in the short area game to get him open and the speed to slice through the secondary for lots of YAC.

Jarius Wright vs Texas A&M 2011 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz2uszgCxnE)

Greg Childs - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvfW2wth8uE)

All in all, I love this draft! Filled the biggest holes first with BPA type picks, got a good chance of value with our WR picks in the fourth and then added some nice special teams depth with potential to develop in the later rounds. Blanton is smart with good size, but not instinctive or very fast. Our coaching staff's strength would seem to be coaching up DBs, maybe they can make a starting caliber saftey or good nickel out of him yet. Cole gives us some backup at MLB where we need more of a run plugger anyway since that guy will be replaced with the nickel back on passing downs. Guyton might provide some rotational reps if he can make the team, and that's about all you can ask for from a late 7th round pick.

Nice Job Spielman! Now its up to the coaches to make it work.

bleedpurple
04-30-2012, 03:37 PM
So with your line of thinking, what you're saying is the Vikings wasted picks on 2 CB's & a S when they should be developing Raymond, Sanford, Asher Allen & Burton? ;)

LOL.. I hope not!!!.. those guys have no business on a roster... let alone starting on one...

I would probably say what young talent....??? lol....

tarkenton10
05-01-2012, 07:51 AM
I don't know enough about the WR to say how good of a pick that was.

Outside of that, I didn't like the FB pick at all.

We lost two G's this offseason (Hutch & Hererra) & needed to address that. 2 of Mel's top 4 remaining players were OG's. Troy Brown & Brandon Washington. There was an OT as his #5 as well.

I felt the pick would have better been spent on Brown.

Singers you just wrote:

All those draft picks & we couldn't trade up in the 2nd or 3rd to draft a WR? WTF!!!!

Spielman may have looked good on day 1 of the draft, but looked like a turd on day 2.

Now he drafts one and you still get mad. did you even know you wrote that? You sound like you will never be happy with Spielman. You want a WR and we draft a corner so you complain and wonder why we didn't draft a WR. Then we get one round later and now you are complaining because there were lineman on the board. That is a little confusing to me, I guess that's all!!

tarkenton10
05-01-2012, 09:03 AM
Troy Williamson ran the 40 in 4.32 seconds and had a 41-1/2 vertical.

Just saying.......

So your saying Hill will be a bust?!?!?!

bleedpurple
05-01-2012, 11:24 AM
So your saying Hill will be a bust?!?!?!

He's saying speed and measurables your touting don't mean shit if you can't catch the ball... or get open...

tarkenton10
05-02-2012, 08:13 AM
He's saying speed and measurables your touting don't mean shit if you can't catch the ball... or get open...

Exactly my point, thank you. What makes Hill any better an option than Childs? Why the love for Hill and not Childs. They are just about the same player in measurables, yet one is a great talent coming from AN OPTION ATTACK and one is not desirable coming from a pro style offense. I would take my chances on the pro style WR, especially when he was tearing up the SEC (arguably the best conference in college football) before his injury. Hill was projected a third to fourth rounder before the combine, what does that tell you about him?

Marrdro
05-08-2012, 08:15 AM
You sound like you will never be happy with Spielman.
Hey Tark, I love my good friend Singer to death, but you have to realize something about him.

He only is happy when the team adds players he recognizes.

If the team puts someone on the roster that he doesn't recognize, look out, and if they do it and get rid of a aging vet (Birk vs Sully/Shortwell vs Walsh) he is going to beeeeyyyyyatch even if in the end, the move was right.

We watched Sully struggle and now this year we are hearing that he is playing at a probowl level. Ever see Singer say just once, he was wrong about the move?

Same thing will happen with Walsh and Shortwell. The kid will have some growing pains but in the end he will be better than shortwell and won't hear a peep out of him.

This is just another example. Truth of the matter is, once you got past the first 5 or 6 WR's the rest of the class was about the same. When/were you took them really doesn't matter when it comes to athletic ability, but does have a big play in what they will cost initially and if they do pan out.

That last little nugget isn't really a concern to most fans as they only want a team made of of HOF'rs when in fact most teams have very few HOF"rs if any on them. They are actually made up of players that just come to work and get it done every day.

tarkenton10
05-09-2012, 10:05 AM
Hey Tark, I love my good friend Singer to death, but you have to realize something about him.

He only is happy when the team adds players he recognizes.

If the team puts someone on the roster that he doesn't recognize, look out, and if they do it and get rid of a aging vet (Birk vs Sully/Shortwell vs Walsh) he is going to beeeeyyyyyatch even if in the end, the move was right.

I was concerned with sully myself, he was a bit of a weak tit coming in but he has improved his game. I think our o-line will be much improved, although you have to wonder about the coaching. Hutch comes in here an All pro and leaves an average player. I know some will say he go tolder and his back hurt his performance but I noticed he was trying to help others and our line looked very confused at times.

We watched Sully struggle and now this year we are hearing that he is playing at a probowl level. Ever see Singer say just once, he was wrong about the move?

Same thing will happen with Walsh and Shortwell. The kid will have some growing pains but in the end he will be better than shortwell and won't hear a peep out of him.

This is just another example. Truth of the matter is, once you got past the first 5 or 6 WR's the rest of the class was about the same. When/were you took them really doesn't matter when it comes to athletic ability, but does have a big play in what they will cost initially and if they do pan out.

I am not sure about where the cuttof is but you are correct when looking at Hill, who everyone on this board coveted, and Childs. They are the same player other than Childs comes from a pro sytle offense. Advantage Childs in my mind.

That last little nugget isn't really a concern to most fans as they only want a team made of of HOF'rs when in fact most teams have very few HOF"rs if any on them. They are actually made up of players that just come to work and get it done every day.

Excellent point if you have a couple HOF's sprinkled in you are blessed. Most teams that win the super bowl have five or six pro bowlers and that is about it. HOF's are very hard to come by and if you can get a probowler at all three levels on D and one or two on the o-line, QB, WR and Rb you have a great chance at a super bowl.

Marrdro
05-10-2012, 08:04 AM
Excellent point if you have a couple HOF's sprinkled in you are blessed. Most teams that win the super bowl have five or six pro bowlers and that is about it. HOF's are very hard to come by and if you can get a probowler at all three levels on D and one or two on the o-line, QB, WR and Rb you have a great chance at a super bowl.
For sure:
JA
AD

To be considered
K-dubb
Chad (if they move him back to his original position)
Percy

Players to be watched
Sully (hard to get there as a C)

bleedpurple
05-11-2012, 01:16 PM
For sure:
JA
AD

To be considered
K-dubb
Chad (if they move him back to his original position)
Percy

Players to be watched
Sully (hard to get there as a C)

Chad??? he sucks... He played the same position he always has.... You dont pay a LB 10M a year to move him to a position he's uncomfortable with... .just sayin....

Marrdro
05-12-2012, 05:37 AM
Chad??? he sucks... He played the same position he always has....
He played the same position? In what way, .....he played LB'r?.....

Ben, when he was hear played the SAM (over the TE) and Chad played the Will. Last year Chad lined up on the SAM side in their base defense.

LOL, played the same position. WOW.

Kindof a waste to put this article here as its a nice read about one of the cats signed to play the WILL linebacker (not the Sam)...


The Vikings need depth behind weak-side linebacker Erin Henderson and more speed and attitude on special teams. Elimimian has spent the past two years honing his skills as a middle linebacker in a 4-2-6 defense and a special teams leader on the CFL's bigger playing surface.

New Vikings linebacker Elimimian hits hard, no matter his size | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/151213135.html)



You dont pay a LB 10M a year to move him to a position he's uncomfortable with... .just sayin....
Your boy Singletary did. Probably why our LB'rs were so screwed up. He did the same kindof thing over there with the 49rs team that did a complete turnaround last year with very little personal changes.

Ohhh, wait, players coach and coaches get coffee right? ......snicker....

Purple Floyd
05-12-2012, 10:18 AM
So with your line of thinking, what you're saying is the Vikings wasted picks on 2 CB's & a S when they should be developing Raymond, Sanford, Asher Allen & Burton? ;)

Not to mention the first pick because they should be developing Love, Degeare, Fusco etc along with schwartz......

Ranger
05-13-2012, 09:15 PM
For sure:
JA
AD

To be considered
K-dubb
Chad (if they move him back to his original position)
Percy

Players to be watched
Sully (hard to get there as a C)

AD is not a lock for the Hall. Allen is probably in. K-Will might. Chad isn't. Percy isn't. Sully isn't. AD is the only "young" player that is realistically going to make it.

i_bleed_purple
05-14-2012, 01:58 AM
Your boy Singletary did. Probably why our LB'rs were so screwed up. He did the same kindof thing over there with the 49rs team that did a complete turnaround last year with very little personal changes.

Ohhh, wait, players coach and coaches get coffee right? ......snicker....

And Singletary makes contracts...... this stuff is priceless.

singersp
05-14-2012, 07:26 AM
Singers you just wrote:

All those draft picks & we couldn't trade up in the 2nd or 3rd to draft a WR? WTF!!!!

Spielman may have looked good on day 1 of the draft, but looked like a turd on day 2.

Now he drafts one and you still get mad. did you even know you wrote that? You sound like you will never be happy with Spielman. You want a WR and we draft a corner so you complain and wonder why we didn't draft a WR. Then we get one round later and now you are complaining because there were lineman on the board. That is a little confusing to me, I guess that's all!!

Of course I know I wrote that. I stand by it. He didn't draft a WR until his 5th pick of the draft. I felt he should have taken one much earlier in the draft with his 2nd or 3rd pick.

I'd be happy if Spielman had made more FA moves that made a little more sense rather than signing FA's that barely made the depth charts, if at all on other teams.

I liked the Claiborne pick & didn't have a problem taking the DB with the 2nd pick, but there's a lot more to the off-season than the first few picks of the draft.

singersp
05-14-2012, 08:11 AM
Hey Tark, I love my good friend Singer to death, but you have to realize something about him.

He only is happy when the team adds players he recognizes.

If the team puts someone on the roster that he doesn't recognize, look out, and if they do it and get rid of a aging vet (Birk vs Sully/Shortwell vs Walsh) he is going to beeeeyyyyyatch even if in the end, the move was right.

We watched Sully struggle and now this year we are hearing that he is playing at a probowl level. Ever see Singer say just once, he was wrong about the move?

Same thing will happen with Walsh and Shortwell. The kid will have some growing pains but in the end he will be better than shortwell and won't hear a peep out of him.

This is just another example. Truth of the matter is, once you got past the first 5 or 6 WR's the rest of the class was about the same. When/were you took them really doesn't matter when it comes to athletic ability, but does have a big play in what they will cost initially and if they do pan out.

That last little nugget isn't really a concern to most fans as they only want a team made of of HOF'rs when in fact most teams have very few HOF"rs if any on them. They are actually made up of players that just come to work and get it done every day.

That's BS. I don't mind if we replace a player with one that's better. At the time we replaced Birk, Sully wasn't better & I don't believe Sully is playing better than Birk was back then. The only ones that I've heard talk about Sullivan being Pro-Bowl material is you and a kid from Bleacher report.

You just had an personal agenda, like you do every year, to target one of our players & try to lobby to get him off the team.

You can sit there & beat your chest & say your boy Sully is starting, but the truth of the matter is you've been beating your chest & saying that about at least two of the Center prospects before Sullivan that they were going to take Birk's job as well.

No matter who we drafted, you said we'd be fine with them & all we needed to do is develop them. Dozens of them are gone never to be heard from again, but you don't talk about them. You point your finger at the few who made it & say, "See I told you so".

You've also claimed our OL has been fine for years when in fact it's been one of the worst in the NFL.

Spielman could have totally made nonsensical moves in the draft, but as long as he replaced or simply got rid of an ex-Puker player, you're on the Spielman bandwagon.

Contrary to what you are trying to sell Tark & others about me, I don't need to have RS sign HOF, cream of the crop type players, but I'd like to see him have signed some known proven players that are guaranteed that they can contribute at or above the level of the players they are replacing to at least keep us in contention rather than starting to look like a farm team.

What I see is him signing players from the bottom of the pool & crossing his fingers hoping to find a diamond in the ruff. That's not improving your team.

Personally, I don't believe we have the staff/coaching to coach a team loaded with talent, much less have them try to develop young players or FA that other teams discarded.

mountainviking
05-14-2012, 10:15 AM
I just don't see that we had a whole lot of options available to us this off season. We're obviously rebuilding with huge holes all over the team and were sitting a lil tight with the cap to start with. On top of that, we're the worst team in possibly the best division in football, so many vets would choose elsewhere thinking they want to win now. And, we're just not at the point where signing one or two big name, big contract, but instant contributors was going to make the difference anyway. We did get a lot younger and took some chances on guys who could still develop into pretty good players with one year, "prove-it" contracts.

Looking at what he had to work with, I think Spielman did a pretty good job filling as many holes as possible, and setting us up with some extra picks for next year too.

marshallvike
05-14-2012, 06:19 PM
He played the same position? In what way, .....he played LB'r?.....

Ben, when he was hear played the SAM (over the TE) and Chad played the Will. Last year Chad lined up on the SAM side in their base defense.

LOL, played the same position. WOW.

Kindof a waste to put this article here as its a nice read about one of the cats signed to play the WILL linebacker (not the Sam)...



New Vikings linebacker Elimimian hits hard, no matter his size | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/151213135.html)



Your boy Singletary did. Probably why our LB'rs were so screwed up. He did the same kindof thing over there with the 49rs team that did a complete turnaround last year with very little personal changes.

Ohhh, wait, players coach and coaches get coffee right? ......snicker....

This is from the article where Spielman was defending Cleveland for making the trade. Talking about our team.
Spielman quote;


I think when you're building your roster and you look at the center of your roster, from your center to your quarterback to your linebacker to your safety, those better be very intelligent people because that's who's directing traffic. Those are the guys making the calls and adjustments. With Chad Greenway, with John Sullivan, with Christian Ponder and now with Harrison Smith, not only do you have very good football players, but you have very intelligent football players.

Does it sound like Spielman is saying Chad may be our MLB this year, or am I reading too much into it?

C Mac D
05-14-2012, 08:11 PM
Does it sound like Spielman is saying Chad may be our MLB this year, or am I reading too much into it?

Sorta does. Might be an idea worth looking into. I like Jasper Brinkley too though, excited to see what he can do. Let's not forget that kid was 1st team All SEC his senior season.

midgensa
05-14-2012, 08:50 PM
Sorta does. Might be an idea worth looking into. I like Jasper Brinkley too though, excited to see what he can do. Let's not forget that kid was 1st team All SEC his senior season.

I think it sounds like Chad may be moving to the middle too ... but I definitely thought of Brinkley first. I think he really could be a solid contributor at MLB ... but Chad would be solid there as well since we need more coverage on the outside anyway (though don't know who will provide that).

I like Brinkley a lot though and think he could bring quite a bit to the table if he is all the way back and healthy.

Purple Floyd
05-14-2012, 09:43 PM
For what we are paying him he should be the MLB.

PackSux!
05-14-2012, 09:43 PM
I think it sounds like Chad may be moving to the middle too ... but I definitely thought of Brinkley first. I think he really could be a solid contributor at MLB ... but Chad would be solid there as well since we need more coverage on the outside anyway (though don't know who will provide that).I like Brinkley a lot though and think he could bring quite a bit to the table if he is all the way back and healthy.

We got burned up the middle constantly. Henderson was just not cutting it after his injury. Anyone should be better then Henderson, I liked E.J. alot but he never came back to his kick ass form after that devastating injury.

singersp
05-15-2012, 08:15 AM
We watched Sully struggle and now this year we are hearing that he is playing at a probowl level. Ever see Singer say just once, he was wrong about the move?

1. It wasn't "a move". We lost Birk to FA. He saw in our coach, like Favre, Pat Williams & Moss did, that our coach was an idiot who didn't want to listen to his players & instead do everything his way & he & the others no longer wanted to be a part of this team. Sully started because he was next in line.

2. From what you've been saying on this board, we should have never even drafted Sullivan or Ponder for that matter. We should have, to quote your logic, been "Developing the young talent we already have on our team."

So, using your logic, we should have been developing the 2 centers we had on our roster prior to Sullivan & still been trying to develop & groom John David Booty & Joe Webb as our future franchise QB.

3. I'll also reiterate. You and a kid from the Bleacher Report are part of a handful of people, if there are others, who claim he has played at a Pro Bowl level.

4. I wasn't wrong about anything. I never once said Sully wouldn't pan out. I said we should have resigned Birk for that season. Who had the better year?

Again, you just wanted Birk gone & wanted to insert a few different unproven centers simply because you had an agenda against him. Hell, you even complained about him when he didn't go to the "VOLUNTARY" mini camp.