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NodakPaul
04-25-2012, 12:37 PM
OK, so with the draft tomorrow, I decided I would finally weigh in on my thought process for our first pick.

There are four scenarios that are generally accepted as possible tomorrow:
1) The Vikings pick Kalil
2) The Vikings pick Blackmon
3) The Vikings pick Claiborne
4) The Vikings trade down

It is obvious that our biggest needs are at LT, WR, and CB. Ideally, we will address two of those needs in the first two rounds. While Blackmon and Claiborne are bigger impact players than Kalil, the talent level at OT drops off so much in this draft class (especially in comparison to WR and CB) that I am convinced that we will take an OT somewhere in the first round.

That means that scenarios 2 & 3 are not going to happen IMHO.

So we either take Kalil with the #3, or trade down and try to snag Reiff. After Reiff goes, the talent at OT goes down quickly, and we need someone who can start week 1. Because of that, if we do trade down, we can't trade down out of the top 9. I simply don't see Reiff making it past Buffalo at 10.

Trade possibilities:

Cleveland - Will not trade up. Regardless of who goes at #3, Cleveland will take Richardson, Blackmon or Claiborne. All three are solid picks.
Tampa Bay - Will not trade up. They are eying Blackmon or Claiborne. With Cleveland almost certainly taking Richardson if he is available, there is an almost certain chance that either one of their guys will be there at 5.
St Louis - Could be convinced to move up, especially if they are targeting Blackmon or Kalil, neither of who will make it to the #6 spot if the Vikings stay put. But I doubt it. WR is easily their biggest need, but there are a lot of quality WRs who will be available in the second round. And they don't need to trade up for Kalil because Reiff will be available stille.
Jacksonville - Probably won't trade up. They could use a WR and OT, but their biggest need is at DE, and they will be able to take the first one off the board.
Miami - The only player they might be enticed to trade up for is Blackmon, but again, there are a lot of good WRs who will be available later in this draft. I don't see them moving up. Besides, if they want Tannehill, he will still be here.
Carolina - Won't trade up - at least not to #3. They need too much help on the defensive line, and Jax is the only team in front of them with the same needs. They will gladly take Claiborne if he falls to them, otherwise will concentrate on DL.


So that is picks 4-9, and I don't see a viable trade partner. If we trade with Buffalo, they will almost certainly take Kalil, which would mean St Louis will take Reiff, and the Vikings would be shit out of luck.

So when all is said and done, unless we get a RGIII level trade offer (which is possible), I don't see us trading out of the #3 spot. And with the #3 pick, the Minnesota Vikings will be selecting Matt Kalil, Tackle, USC. :)

NodakPaul
04-25-2012, 12:45 PM
So basically, this is how I think the top nine will round out:


Indianapolis - Luck
Washington - RGIII
Minnesota - Kalil
Cleveland - Richardson
Tampa Bay - Claiborne
St Louis - Reiff
Jacksonville - Coples
Miami - Tannehill
Carolina - Cox

bleedpurple
04-25-2012, 01:24 PM
I sure as hell hope your right.. talent does drop off drastically after Khalil and Reiff...

Claiborne is an awesome pick, but I think we need Khalil more. Plus, a Janoris jenkins with all his problems will still be around by our second pick...

I'd rather have a combo of Khalil and Jenkins

VS

Claiborne, Martin/receiver/etc.

PackSux!
04-25-2012, 05:18 PM
I am sure this is a pipe dream but listen to this. I had a dream that Tampa got scared Cleveland was going to take Richardson so they traded up to 3 and we moved back to 5. Cleveland lost out on Richardson so they drafting Claiborne. St. Louis got scared Blackmon wouldnt be there at 6 so they traded up to 5 and we moved back to 6 and Kalil fell in our laps at the number 6 spot and we gained some nice extra picks for moving back twice.

Sorry to somewhat hijack the thread Nodak.

Traveling_Vike
04-25-2012, 06:06 PM
I'm inclined to agree with NodakPaul's picks, IF nobody trades out of there. Interestingly, that drops Blackmon out of the top ten, which is the only real surprise there.

Given that, though, it would not surprise me at all to see someone pull a trade with either St. Louis or Jacksonville to snag HIM, rather than Tannehill, before Miami. Both Reiff and Coples could potentially still be on the board a few picks later on, so it's not a major setback for the Rams or Jags to move back a few spots.

SharperImage
04-25-2012, 06:27 PM
I believe that Tampa Bay will trade with us. I believe they will give us their second round pick, and with that we still get Khalil, and we draft Ashlon Jeffery and Janoris Jenkins, and thats a HELL of a second round and I do a dance.

shockzilla
04-25-2012, 06:47 PM
I have heard that there are a LOT of character issues with Janoris Jenkins, ala Pacman Jones. I would rather have maybe the guy from South Carolina, Stephon Gilmore, or Dre Kirkpatrick from Alabama...

Marrdro
04-25-2012, 07:15 PM
OK, so with the draft tomorrow, I decided I would finally weigh in on my thought process for our first pick.

You know how much I love these things, especially from the smartest cat on PPO.

As always, a couple of thoughts...comments.



There are four scenarios that are generally accepted as possible tomorrow:
1) The Vikings pick Kalil
2) The Vikings pick Blackmon
3) The Vikings pick Claiborne
4) The Vikings trade down

I don't care much what everyone else is saying, what I care about, or really give credence to, is what the Vikes have done in the off season.

a. Brought in a G but nothing at LT
b. Brought in 2 CB's
c. Signed a new WR with alot of potential and resigned one that they saw some flash out of at the end of the season.
d. Promoted a 3 tech to the 1 tech and brought back Evans (still not sure why).


It is obvious that our biggest needs are at LT, WR, and CB.
If you look at that, our obvious needs can be reduced a bit, well, except for one position. LT

Do we have a bunch of shutdown CB's in the secondary? No, but you don't need them in this scheme. Not unless your going to change your scheme. A look at Cook and one could almost entertain the idea of using him and MC together on the field. It would also explain why they haven't really brought in a true 0 tech to fill Phat Pats role in this scheme.

In all likely hood, I don't think MC is the pick, nor do I think that Spielman thinks CB is as big a need as most fans do. Again, scheme doesn't dictate it.

WR. Could we use someone like the top rated WR? Sure, but again, lets get back to scheme and what we did in the off season. Not really sure you could make a case for having Carlson, Rudy and the Bevy of young TE's on the roster if you are going to run single TE sets.

An upgrade is needed, but you can get almost the same talent late into the 3rd round.

LT. Here is were the rubber meets the road. They have done absolutely nothing to upgrade this position. Couple that with a FA class that doesn't have anyone worth grabbing and you can see only one solution for this and that is the draft.

With 2 LT's on the board (possibly a 3rd depending on what scouting staff you believe) you have to get one someplace in the top 10 and that will be a risk that one of them might not be there much past 6, possibly 7.

Which gets you to this.....


Trade possibilities:
Cleveland - Will not trade up. Regardless of who goes at #3, Cleveland will take Richardson, Blackmon or Claiborne. All three are solid picks.
Tampa Bay - Will not trade up. They are eying Blackmon or Claiborne. With Cleveland almost certainly taking Richardson if he is available, there is an almost certain chance that either one of their guys will be there at 5

It is basically going to come down to Cleveland and Tampa and if Ricky boy can play one on the other enough to get them to come up and take our spot, give up theirs and add atleast a 3rd, possibly a second.


So that is picks 4-9, and I don't see a viable trade partner.
I'm not so sure....

Report: Browns and Bucs Looking to Trade Up to Snag Richardson NFL Gridiron Gab (http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2012/04/25/report-browns-and-bucs-looking-to-trade-up-to-snag-richardson/)

If ole Ricky boy pulls this one off, I think we all need to cut him some slack.


So when all is said and done, unless we get a RGIII level trade offer (which is possible), I don't see us trading out of the #3 spot. And with the #3 pick, the Minnesota Vikings will be selecting Matt Kalil, Tackle, USC. :)

I agree, to a point. I think Kalil has always been the guy and if a trading partner doesn't come up, that doesn't allow us to move down and still get him, he will still be the guy at 3.

After all is said and done, all the talk about everything else has been nothing more than a GM (yes Singer he is our GM) trying to get the most of of a draft.

Again, good stuff my friend. :D

kevoncox
04-25-2012, 07:40 PM
I believe you Marr.
After all this is a GM that has several layers to his draft process and each layer goes out to multiple decimal points in detail. There is no way, he has a 3 way tie. My fear however, is can he pull it off without being screwed. You are dancing with the devil when you try to predict what other teams are going to do. Whats to keep a team from trading up with the Browns and snagging Kalil from us. Dangerous game you are playing....

Marrdro
04-25-2012, 08:47 PM
I believe you Marr.
After all this is a GM that has several layers to his draft process and each layer goes out to multiple decimal points in detail. There is no way, he has a 3 way tie. My fear however, is can he pull it off without being screwed. You are dancing with the devil when you try to predict what other teams are going to do. Whats to keep a team from trading up with the Browns and snagging Kalil from us. Dangerous game you are playing....
Even if he does lose Kalil, he still gets a starter that fits a need at 5. Should be able to add another starter, or at least a nice young rotation guy that will become a starter with the extra pick.

When you are trying to rebuild, you gotta roll the dice sometimes my friend.

kevoncox
04-25-2012, 08:54 PM
Sure but missing out on a long term answer at LT is hard to pass.

PackSux!
04-25-2012, 09:11 PM
I have heard that there are a LOT of character issues with Janoris Jenkins, ala Pacman Jones. I would rather have maybe the guy from South Carolina, Stephon Gilmore, or Dre Kirkpatrick from Alabama...

Dre Kirkpatrick was the topic of discussion on the NFL Network the other day and the analyst's all were saying that Kirkpatrick was best suited for the cover two defense. Mayock has him rated third I think on his list?

I still hope that somehow we pull of Kalil, Kirkpatrick and Hill with our first three picks.

skum
04-25-2012, 10:28 PM
Dre Kirkpatrick was the topic of discussion on the NFL Network the other day and the analyst's all were saying that Kirkpatrick was best suited for the cover two defense. Mayock has him rated third I think on his list?

I still hope that somehow we pull of Kalil, Kirkpatrick and Hill with our first three picks.

I don't think Kirkpatrick slips to us in the 2nd, he might have some issues but he will go in the first round based on his talent, he is an extremely good cornerback prospect..

And just a question for you?, who will play safety if Kalil, Kirkpatrick and Hill is our first 3 picks?

kevoncox
04-26-2012, 12:46 AM
MOst of the safeties in this draft are 3 rounders. There should be plenty to bring in to compete in the 3rd rounds and a few in the fourth. The other positions are so loaded, these above average prospects will slide.

Brandon Hardin, FS
Brandon Hardin, Oregon State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1724658/brandon-hardin)

My Sleeper pick
Red Flags on him but was once considered an Eric Berry caliber safety. Has Amazing coverage skills but is built a bit small. Was once tried for arm robbery ( didn't know the crime was going down)
Janzen Jackson, FS - McNeese St. | Player Profile | 2012 Combine | NFL.com (http://m.nfl.com/combine/profile/2533535/janzen-jackson/)

marshallvike
04-26-2012, 07:47 AM
Sure but missing out on a long term answer at LT is hard to pass.

I am with you kevon. Just draft Kalil and forget about addressing that position again for a decade.

Johnson14
04-26-2012, 10:05 AM
OK, so with the draft tomorrow, I decided I would finally weigh in on my thought process for our first pick.

There are four scenarios that are generally accepted as possible tomorrow:
1) The Vikings pick Kalil
2) The Vikings pick Blackmon
3) The Vikings pick Claiborne
4) The Vikings trade down

It is obvious that our biggest needs are at LT, WR, and CB. Ideally, we will address two of those needs in the first two rounds. While Blackmon and Claiborne are bigger impact players than Kalil, the talent level at OT drops off so much in this draft class (especially in comparison to WR and CB) that I am convinced that we will take an OT somewhere in the first round.

That means that scenarios 2 & 3 are not going to happen IMHO.

So when all is said and done, unless we get a RGIII level trade offer (which is possible), I don't see us trading out of the #3 spot. And with the #3 pick, the Minnesota Vikings will be selecting Matt Kalil, Tackle, USC. :)

:clap:

Excellent post my friend.

That right there, the underlined part, is why we pick Kalil.

NodakPaul
04-26-2012, 10:17 AM
Reports are out now that Tampa is considering trading up with Minnesota to snag Richardson. I would be ecstatic if this happened, but I am not holding my breath...

Johnson14
04-26-2012, 10:25 AM
Gotta love draft day rumors! :)

mountainviking
04-26-2012, 02:03 PM
I don't care much what everyone else is saying, what I care about, or really give credence to, is what the Vikes have done in the off season.

a. Brought in a G but nothing at LT
b. Brought in 2 CB's
c. Signed a new WR with alot of potential and resigned one that they saw some flash out of at the end of the season.
d. Promoted a 3 tech to the 1 tech and brought back Evans (still not sure why).


Exactly what I was saying to a friend yesterday! We haven't even sniffed at LT! OR, Safety...with a roster of: Raymond, Sanford, Frampton you gotta be thinking we're going to address that position early too, right!???

Thats where I think moving to ten might be a real possibility. There are some OL at the top of the 2nd that will be pretty good run blockers in year one and decent pass protectors with help from our talented 2-TE set. Maybe, if we drop that far, we target Mark Barron, or Luke Kuechly, either of which would dramatically improve our coverage of TEs/the mid-short part of the passing game!

NDVikingFan66
04-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Schemes aside, I am starting to feel we need people who can change games. Sorry, but a LT does not change a game. A stud WR or DB does have the ability to change a game though.

That being said, I also am smart enough to know that where we need to most help, this draft is pretty deep (WR and DB). Now, I look around the league, and I see some stud LT's, and are their teams making deep playoff runs? Did they immediatly make their teams better?

Some of our recent signings lead me to believe we will pick Kalil, but I really want a playmaker pick to happen.

With the 3rd pick of the NFL Draft, the Vikings Select Matt Kalil

kevoncox
04-26-2012, 03:07 PM
Lets not forget that We fix 2 positions by drafting him LG and LT.
I'm only interested in trading down with Tampa. Yet I fear that a team might convince the Browns to trade with them.

My Wishlist
1- Kalil
2 - Jeffery & Janoris Jenkins
3 - George Iloka
4 - Josh Chapman, T.Y. Hilton, Tommy Streeter
5- Chris Rainey
6- Janzen Jackson
7- Vontaze Burfict

I think I just made us a very dangerous team once we develop.
We would have 3 Young WRs to develop which would give us the flexibility to let Harvin go is needed. His contact is up and he will be looking for a pretty large market deal. Hilton, is just as explosive and does many of the same things he is capable of. We get both a FS and a SS to compete with the bums I say play last season. A young CB talented enough to start should Winny go down. I had to include Burfict because I once had him going to us in the first round. I can't believe how much the guy has slid. Take him in the 7th. Let Singletary get his hands on him and show him how to play the position and use his obvious talents.

Next year we can focus on rebuilding in the trenches again.
OG- DT - OLBs - CB - S

QB - Ponder, Webb,
RB - Peterson, Rainey, Gerhert
FB - Felton
WR - Harvin, Streeter, A. Jeffery, Hilton, Simpson, Jenkins.
TE - Rudolph, Carlson, Reisner
OL - Kalil, Johnson, Sully, Schwartz, Load

DL - Allen, Williams, Chapman, Griffen
LB - Greenway, Brinkley, Henderson,
Cb - Cook, Jenkins, Winfield, Carr, AA
FS, George Iloka, Raymond
SS, Janzen Jackson, Sanford, Frampton

kevoncox
04-26-2012, 03:15 PM
Schemes aside, I am starting to feel we need people who can change games. Sorry, but a LT does not change a game. A stud WR or DB does have the ability to change a game though.

That being said, I also am smart enough to know that where we need to most help, this draft is pretty deep (WR and DB). Now, I look around the league, and I see some stud LT's, and are their teams making deep playoff runs? Did they immediatly make their teams better?

Some of our recent signings lead me to believe we will pick Kalil, but I really want a playmaker pick to happen.

With the 3rd pick of the NFL Draft, the Vikings Select Matt Kalil

I hate these arguments. You should be asking did they make the OL better. Yes they did. Teams that are in position to draft a stud LT are usually pretty bad team. Throwing 1 WR would not solve the entire teams issue. Drafting 1 CB will not make the defense better.

What we do know however, is that by drafting Kalil, we can move Johnson inside and he will fix 2 positions for us. It may also fix the issue of Peterson getting killed behind the LOS. In this day and age where teams are running 4 and 5 wr sets, 1 cb means nothing. Look at the Jets. They have Revis, Cromatie and Wilson. Are they better? No.

Lastly, starters at CB are regular found in the 2nd round just fine. Starting LT are not. Yes some teams are capable of finding LTs way after the 1st but those are exceptions to the rules not the norm. Kalil is the right answer. There isn't a huge drop off in talent from Jenkins to Claibourne, just Off field issue.

PackSux!
04-26-2012, 04:39 PM
I don't think Kirkpatrick slips to us in the 2nd, he might have some issues but he will go in the first round based on his talent, he is an extremely good cornerback prospect..

And just a question for you?, who will play safety if Kalil, Kirkpatrick and Hill is our first 3 picks?

Our 4th round pick. Or we move Winfield to safety since we will have Cook, Carr and Kirkpatrick(if we drafted Kirkpatrick).

KevinK
04-26-2012, 05:08 PM
I believe that Tampa Bay will trade with us. I believe they will give us their second round pick, and with that we still get Khalil, and we draft Ashlon Jeffery and Janoris Jenkins, and thats a HELL of a second round and I do a dance.

+++++++1 In our dreams

YouthVikesFan
04-26-2012, 05:56 PM
Lets not forget that We fix 2 positions by drafting him LG and LT.
I'm only interested in trading down with Tampa. Yet I fear that a team might convince the Browns to trade with them.

My Wishlist
1- Kalil
2 - Jeffery & Janoris Jenkins
3 - George Iloka
4 - Josh Chapman, T.Y. Hilton, Tommy Streeter
5- Chris Rainey
6- Janzen Jackson
7- Vontaze Burfict

I think I just made us a very dangerous team once we develop.
We would have 3 Young WRs to develop which would give us the flexibility to let Harvin go is needed. His contact is up and he will be looking for a pretty large market deal. Hilton, is just as explosive and does many of the same things he is capable of. We get both a FS and a SS to compete with the bums I say play last season. A young CB talented enough to start should Winny go down. I had to include Burfict because I once had him going to us in the first round. I can't believe how much the guy has slid. Take him in the 7th. Let Singletary get his hands on him and show him how to play the position and use his obvious talents.

Next year we can focus on rebuilding in the trenches again.
OG- DT - OLBs - CB - S

QB - Ponder, Webb,
RB - Peterson, Rainey, Gerhert
FB - Felton
WR - Harvin, Streeter, A. Jeffery, Hilton, Simpson, Jenkins.
TE - Rudolph, Carlson, Reisner
OL - Kalil, Johnson, Sully, Schwartz, Load

DL - Allen, Williams, Chapman, Griffen
LB - Greenway, Brinkley, Henderson,
Cb - Cook, Jenkins, Winfield, Carr, AA
FS, George Iloka, Raymond
SS, Janzen Jackson, Sanford, Frampton

Bowman doesnt make the squad over AA? Interesting. Other than that i like it the draft