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View Full Version : Vikings to Cut Hutch and Herrera



12purplepride28
03-10-2012, 02:41 PM
Report: Vikings to cut Steve Hutchinson, Anthony Herrera | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/10/report-vikings-to-cut-steve-hutchinson-anthony-herrera/)

kevoncox
03-10-2012, 03:36 PM
Good God...
Cutting Hutch was a mistake
Hopefully we can draft Kalil, sign Grubbs, Move Johnson to RG,
We still need to address WR, LB, DT, CB, S, RB.
We are now the Browns.

Freakout
03-10-2012, 04:32 PM
Cutting Hutch was no mistake. He is at best average now and is making 8 million +.

Caine
03-10-2012, 05:34 PM
It's not the cutting that bothers me...it's the "replacing" part that I worry about. With this franchise's recent difficulties in finding/developing talent at ANY position (Outside of no-brainers like Peterson and Harvin), and our numerous gaping talent holes, our prospects of actually improving the position are increasingly slim....

Caine

Webby
03-10-2012, 06:25 PM
Hutch was pulling weight. Fair enough.

12purplepride28
03-10-2012, 06:41 PM
Draft Kalil, Charlie to RG, sign Carl Nicks. Line fixed and pretty dang good. I think Charlie is a good guard. We probably won't get Nicks, so I guess we'll roll with Berger or Fusco.

TheAnimal93
03-11-2012, 08:25 AM
Also one of the sports crawlers was reporting the VIkings are wanting CedGriff to restructure

i_bleed_purple
03-11-2012, 09:16 AM
Griff is already cut.

Purple Floyd
03-11-2012, 10:43 AM
Good start.

mountainviking
03-11-2012, 10:45 AM
I was kinda hoping Hutch would restructure...for 3 or 5 mill/year it might be worth hanging on to one vet OG...? But, yeah, looks like we're thinking our starting OGs are Berger and Johnson at this point.

Griff wasn't getting it done anymore...and then had some issues with the coaches too. Not surprised there.

Hey! At least we're not the Colts! Have you seen their list of cuts? Starters and team captains from both sides of the ball cut early on top of their long list of Free Agents...AND, they've got nearly 40 million in previous bonuses that are still counting against them, so they're not going to be able to sign shit in FA either!


The bad news is that, for the privilege of not having players like Peyton Manning, Dallas Clark, Gary Brackett, Melvin Bullitt, and Joseph Addai on the team, the Colts will trigger $38 million in empty cap dollars, according to Mike Chappell of the Indianapolis Star.

D'oh! OUCH!!!

Tho, if we had flushed our team a year or two earlier...who knows, maybe we'd be a contender next season...?

singersp
03-11-2012, 12:22 PM
Griffin had a couple of good years, but the injuries took there toll. No big surprise here.

singersp
03-11-2012, 12:27 PM
It's not the cutting that bothers me...it's the "replacing" part that I worry about. With this franchise's recent difficulties in finding/developing talent at ANY position (Outside of no-brainers like Peterson and Harvin), and our numerous gaping talent holes, our prospects of actually improving the position are increasingly slim....

Caine

+1

The front office continually cuts players or lets them walk, only to fill their shoes with less talented, less producing players that come cheaply.

singersp
03-11-2012, 12:39 PM
Exactly how bad is your offensive line, when your entire corp of tackles (depth included) consists of Loadholt, Johnson, Love & Brown?

Exactly how bad is your offensive line, when your entire corp of guards (depth included) consists of Berger?

** EDITED** Forgot about DeGeare. (I guess we're set. LOL)

MaxVike
03-11-2012, 01:10 PM
Exactly how bad is your offensive line, when your entire corp of tackles (depth included) consists of Loadholt, Johnson, Love & Brown?

Exactly how bad is your offensive line, when your entire corp of guards (depth included) consists of Berger?

Pretty fucking bad IMHO. Better change dramatically in the next 6 weeks or we will need to fill the roster with a dozen QBs... I feel like this has got to be an indication that Kalil is our guy and that Spielman is assuming to be successful in landing Nicks or Grubbs...of course, I tend to be optimistic about these things. :think:

Purple Floyd
03-11-2012, 01:40 PM
The line has been terrible for a long time but I am not convinced it is as much talent related as it is scheme and coaching related.

In 2006 we had an all pro in Bryant McKinny who was a top 10 draft pick LT and we went out and got hutch and we also had Birk at Center along with Herrera. With Hutch,Birk and Mac we had what would be referred to as an "Elite" right side of the line and 2 of them combined for something like 100 Million in contract dollars.

In spite of that the line was not good and IMHO it was no worse last year than it has been n average which leads me to hesitate to take another Elite LT and sign another Elite LG and feel anything will improve appreciably. If the coaching staff is up to NFL standards they would have been getting better production out of that investment and they would have had the reserves able to fill in when a vet got hurt or left the team. None of that developed in the 5 years after Tice and I still don't see that changing even if we blow a 3 on Kalil and FA dollars on Nicks.

I think the Iggles last year were a great example of spending money on high dollar FA's and getting too little in return.

Purple Floyd
03-11-2012, 01:42 PM
Personally I want to see them work with Fusco, DeGere and Berger as well as Loadholt and then get a guy like Martin at LT.

singersp
03-11-2012, 02:03 PM
The line has been terrible for a long time but I am not convinced it is as much talent related as it is scheme and coaching related.

In 2006 we had an all pro in Bryant McKinny who was a top 10 draft pick LT and we went out and got hutch and we also had Birk at Center along with Herrera. With Hutch,Birk and Mac we had what would be referred to as an "Elite" right side of the line and 2 of them combined for something like 100 Million in contract dollars.

In spite of that the line was not good and IMHO it was no worse last year than it has been n average which leads me to hesitate to take another Elite LT and sign another Elite LG and feel anything will improve appreciably. If the coaching staff is up to NFL standards they would have been getting better production out of that investment and they would have had the reserves able to fill in when a vet got hurt or left the team. None of that developed in the 5 years after Tice and I still don't see that changing even if we blow a 3 on Kalil and FA dollars on Nicks.

I think the Iggles last year were a great example of spending money on high dollar FA's and getting too little in return.

I believe the scheme & coaching was definitely much of the blame during the KAO Era. I've voiced my opinion about that since 2006 & I believe it's the primary reason that Birk left.

Now it's hard to say. If it's still coaching, they will be trying to do it with less talented players than Childress had.

If the scheme is complicated, like the type of ZB scheme Childress wanted to run, the one that some here said would take 5 years to master, don't bother trying to run it here. We can't keep the same OL in tact for 2 years, let alone 5.

GB rebuilt their OL a few years ago & look at it now. Seattle had an OL worse than ours but it improved as the year went on.

The thing I've failed to see here since Childress/Frasier took over is a constant improvement in our OL. We are no closer today in having a solid OL than we were in 2006.

Mr Anderson
03-11-2012, 02:15 PM
I think if you're going to draft a tackle at #3, it'd be nice if he were playing next to a guy like Steve Hutchinson.

I don't trust our offensive line coaches. We need a vocal veteran presence on the line.

MaxVike
03-11-2012, 02:47 PM
Further grist for the mill... NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2011&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go)

skum
03-11-2012, 03:11 PM
What is Spielman doing?

Hutch might have declined, but he is still very good.. I had hoped he would stay, Griff deserved a chance at safety and Herrera also.. Now our entire offensive line is in shambles.. We pretty much only have Sullivan and Loadholt, both who have been shaky in their performances over the season..

I guess he plans to draft some Linemen in the draft and leave Ponder with a unexperienced O-Line and no wideouts to throw to.. Get ready to be destroyed.. The Joe Berger era is now.

kevoncox
03-11-2012, 03:38 PM
Personally I want to see them work with Fusco, DeGere and Berger as well as Loadholt and then get a guy like Martin at LT.

WHy....these guys are terrible. We dont have a miricle sitting on the bench.

Purple Floyd
03-11-2012, 08:40 PM
I believe the scheme & coaching was definitely much of the blame during the KAO Era. I've voiced my opinion about that since 2006 & I believe it's the primary reason that Birk left.

Now it's hard to say. If it's still coaching, they will be trying to do it with less talented players than Childress had.

If the scheme is complicated, like the type of ZB scheme Childress wanted to run, the one that some here said would take 5 years to master, don't bother trying to run it here. We can't keep the same OL in tact for 2 years, let alone 5.

GB rebuilt their OL a few years ago & look at it now. Seattle had an OL worse than ours but it improved as the year went on.

The thing I've failed to see here since Childress/Frasier took over is a constant improvement in our OL. We are no closer today in having a solid OL than we were in 2006.
I would say what you have seen is the combination of a few things.

Number one- I don't think they have done a good job of getting quality position coaches on the OL and I don't think the FO has done a very good job of fielding talent that compliments each other.

Number 2- I believe that tying up the amount of cap space they did on Hutch and McKinney limited what they could spend on the rest of the line and thus the overall quality of the line was diminished.

That is primarily why I am not really interested in taking Kalil at 3. I know he could be a hell of a player ad make that position solid for a long time but looking at the lines that have those Elite LT's, it looks like the rest of the lines look much like ours. Too many dollars tied up on one side and too little talent on the other side.

The link MaxVike posted pretty much reinforced that. It looks like Cleveland with Thomas was way back in 18th place while the Dolphins with Long were actually worse than the Vikings while teams with later round talent that was more balanced and ranked higher.

Purple Floyd
03-11-2012, 08:42 PM
WHy....these guys are terrible. We dont have a miricle sitting on the bench.

Because these are the guys the FO drafted and brought in to be the next phase. If they fail then the FO needs to go. Why pilfer the guys other FO's have drafted and developed just to mask our staffs shortcomings?

singersp
03-12-2012, 07:03 AM
I don't trust our offensive line coaches. We need a vocal veteran presence on the line.

Right now that veteran presence, by NFL tenure, would have to be either Joe Berger, who got let go by both the Dolphins & Cowboys or Charlie Johnson, who was let go by Indy. Both have only been with the Vikings 1 year.

If your looking for that veteran presence from the OL man that's been with the Vikings the longest, that would be Sullivan.

Mr Anderson
03-12-2012, 11:35 AM
Right now that veteran presence, by NFL tenure, would have to be either Joe Berger, who got let go by both the Dolphins & Cowboys or Charlie Johnson, who was let go by Indy. Both have only been with the Vikings 1 year.

If your looking for that veteran presence from the OL man that's been with the Vikings the longest, that would be Sullivan.
Yep, exactly. Not really guys to learn from. Kalil on day 1 could probably out play all of those guys.

Bubba Jed
03-13-2012, 10:58 AM
What do y'all think of the Vikings talking of cutting EJ Henderson and Shiancoe? I think they need to keep them.

skum
03-13-2012, 11:53 AM
Shank will be a free agent, EJ Henderson has not been the same since his injury, so id guess i would understand, but we got so many holes to cover, we need to keep some guys instead of just lining up with another 53 guys.

EDIT: EJ Henderson is also a free agent and therefore either won't be cut, just not extended..

vikinggreg
03-13-2012, 05:30 PM
Ravens haven't grabbed these guys yet.... Hutch is heading to see the Titans

Bubba Jed
03-14-2012, 12:52 PM
What do you think the chances are of the Vikings re-signing these guys if they let them go at a reduced price?

skum
03-14-2012, 01:01 PM
What do you think the chances are of the Vikings re-signing these guys if they let them go at a reduced price?

Might be a small chance for EJ and Erin to sign here, but the rest is gone for good.