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View Full Version : Why bother with the combine?



AngloVike
02-24-2012, 03:36 PM
Luck and Griffin are both thinking about not throwing until their Pro days, Blackmon is saying that his hamstring is sore and he may skip the 40yd dash but will then do it at his Pro day.
So please tell me why have the Combine when the potential players don't want to show their skills. If all we want to know is their height and weight then give them some quarters and pack them off to Target.
I just hope some of these players pulling this stunt then fall flat on their Pro days as they won't have the luxury of a second try at it.

gregair13
02-26-2012, 06:21 PM
Vick Ballard in Super Crocodile Mile - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGqscAfgMls)

tarkenton10
02-27-2012, 09:19 AM
Luck and Griffin are both thinking about not throwing until their Pro days, Blackmon is saying that his hamstring is sore and he may skip the 40yd dash but will then do it at his Pro day.
So please tell me why have the Combine when the potential players don't want to show their skills. If all we want to know is their height and weight then give them some quarters and pack them off to Target.
I just hope some of these players pulling this stunt then fall flat on their Pro days as they won't have the luxury of a second try at it.

The combine is not for those guys, they are going to go high and not much they do at the combine would change that. The combine is for a WR like Stephen Hill out of GT who was in an option system and only caught 28 passes. He has blazing speed (4.30) and is tall at 6' 4" and 215. He went from a fifth round pick IMO to a high third and rising fast. He could go at the end of the first round as he showed pasion for the game diving for balls and had decent route running ability ( a big thing teams wanted to see from WRs ). He would be a great get for us in the second IMO considering Blackmon and Floyd should be gone by the time we pick in the second round.

seaniemck7
02-27-2012, 09:28 AM
The combine is not for those guys, they are going to go high and not much they do at the combine would change that. The combine is for a WR like Stephen Hill out of GT who was in an option system and only caught 28 passes. He has blazing speed (4.30) and is tall at 6' 4" and 215. He went from a fifth round pick IMO to a high third and rising fast. He could go at the end of the first round as he showed pasion for the game diving for balls and had decent route running ability ( a big thing teams wanted to see from WRs ). He would be a great get for us in the second IMO considering Blackmon and Floyd should be gone by the time we pick in the second round.

Not only that, but this is the one place you get all the guys and all the teams Doctors in the same place. The medical check can be just as important as the position drills when it comes to evalutating a player.

Marrdro
02-28-2012, 04:48 AM
I think the combine is more for the fans, than for anyone else, however, what our good friend Tark says rings true. Not sure how many times I heard Mayock say...."Wow, I have to go back and look at some more tape on that cat".......

In short, if you can get the coaches and the scouts to look at you again, it might get you drafted or it might even get you drafted higher.

On a side note, loved watching the "Bigs" on each side of the ball, especially a few of those "War Pigs" that I covet so bad.......(Poe, Da'Tamu, Brockers would all make me happy, and our defense a whole hell of alot better):clap:

Nice article on the DL techniques for those that are interested......

Defensive Line Techniques The Prototypes (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/12/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/)

Defensive Line Techniques - The Prototypes | ProFootballFocus.com (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/12/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/)

Mr Anderson
02-28-2012, 11:47 AM
A few guys that were off my radar impressed me from the OL group. James Brown out of Troy and Adam Gettis of Iowa as guards. Kelechi Osemele from Iowa St at tackle.

On the d-line I liked what I saw from Mike Martin out of Michigan, Brandon Thompson from Clemson and Mike and Marcus Forston from Miami were impressive as DTs.

WRs I liked Stephen Hill out of Georgia Tech, Travis Benjamin out of Miami and Gerrell Robinson out of ASU.

And the opposite of these guys, a guy I was really excited to see what he could do at the combine was Mohamed Sanu. I didn't get to watch him in drills, but he was disappointing in the athletic measurements. 4.67? He does not play that slow. This guy is damn good receiver, if his disappointing combine makes him drop past the second round (which I have a hard time imagining) we'd better snag him at the top of the 3rd.

slavinator
02-29-2012, 12:43 PM
Marr
Couldnt agree more. I didnt see a whole lot from the skill positions on Offense that I didnt expect this combine. What I was pleased to see however is how deep this draft class is on the both lines, and in the secondary. The receivers and top Qbs are a nice story but we need to reboot our whole system. I was suprised by Kalil's athleticism (he could warrant the top pick for us),especially after hearing AP on Dan Patrick talk about who the team is telling him they are looking at. But with other teams lining up to get into the RGIII, Luck and the Blackmon issue we can pick up a couple picks which could turn into serious value for us. I favor taking a defensive lineman who can rush the passer as that seems like the only way to deter the Det and GB offenses (see NY Giants). The Corners and Safeties this year look really good, we all know how much help we need on the back end. All of the guys last night in the DB drills look to be a major upgrade for us. I think that we look to move a few aging veterans as well as a way to clear up the cap and start fresh also.

This is a great opportunity for the Vikes. Lets make sure to get the pick in on time, and no more Chris Cook's please.......

Marrdro
03-01-2012, 02:25 AM
A few guys that were off my radar impressed me from the OL group. James Brown out of Troy and Adam Gettis of Iowa as guards. Kelechi Osemele from Iowa St at tackle.

On the d-line I liked what I saw from Mike Martin out of Michigan, Brandon Thompson from Clemson and Mike and Marcus Forston from Miami were impressive as DTs.

WRs I liked Stephen Hill out of Georgia Tech, Travis Benjamin out of Miami and Gerrell Robinson out of ASU.

And the opposite of these guys, a guy I was really excited to see what he could do at the combine was Mohamed Sanu. I didn't get to watch him in drills, but he was disappointing in the athletic measurements. 4.67? He does not play that slow. This guy is damn good receiver, if his disappointing combine makes him drop past the second round (which I have a hard time imagining) we'd better snag him at the top of the 3rd.
Loven me some Sanu my friend. I would shit if they landed him or Toon.

Marrdro
03-01-2012, 02:32 AM
Marr
Couldnt agree more.

I favor taking a defensive lineman who can rush the passer as that seems like the only way to deter the Det and GB offenses (see NY Giants).
You just moved up on several of my new spreadsheets I've been working on during my sabbatical in the comm closets that last few months.......snicker........

Especially that last comment. Only way to beat those passing games is to move the QB from the pocket to the DEs and blitzing LB'rs.

Having said that, I would love to see them pass on Kalil and take Poe, but think they are going to target Ta'amu (they had him in the senior bowl) in the 3rd. Just not sure if he will still be there that long. Maybe Brockers will get out of the first round into the second, but I doubt it.

Mayock is saying things like 9 DTs will be taken in the first round.

Mr Anderson
03-02-2012, 10:21 AM
You just moved up on several of my new spreadsheets I've been working on during my sabbatical in the comm closets that last few months.......snicker........

Especially that last comment. Only way to beat those passing games is to move the QB from the pocket to the DEs and blitzing LB'rs.

Having said that, I would love to see them pass on Kalil and take Poe, but think they are going to target Ta'amu (they had him in the senior bowl) in the 3rd. Just not sure if he will still be there that long. Maybe Brockers will get out of the first round into the second, but I doubt it.

Mayock is saying things like 9 DTs will be taken in the first round.
I hope that passing on Kalil and taking Poe scenario includes trading the #3 pick. Before the combine most were rating Poe as a late first or second round pick, with a handful of mockers having him in the mid first round. I can easily see why a ridiculous combine workout can elevate someone's opinion of a player, but I'd hate to see us make that mistake again - Erasmus James ring a bell?

I think Poe has the ability to be an absolute terror as a 1-2-3 technique DT in the NFL, but he's not a player worthy of the #3 pick right now.

slavinator
03-02-2012, 04:22 PM
Great Comments Marr and Mr A. I love the Mayock interjection on the number of good DT available as well.

I also like the idea of Toon sliding a bit farther than most expect due to guys like Blackmon, and Alshawn Jeffrey from SC, then there is the receiver from GT who lit it up at the combine. If we are flexible and stay true to BPA and biggest need we will be fine.

Here is a wild thought........what about bringing in Osi from the Giants. Put him on the DL with Jared and KW and we are formidable for a while up front. I prefer using the draft due to cap and other reasons but this would be a move that makes sense from a FA perspective.

Marrdro
03-03-2012, 02:09 AM
I hope that passing on Kalil and taking Poe scenario includes trading the #3 pick. Before the combine most were rating Poe as a late first or second round pick, with a handful of mockers having him in the mid first round. I can easily see why a ridiculous combine workout can elevate someone's opinion of a player, but I'd hate to see us make that mistake again - Erasmus James ring a bell?

I think Poe has the ability to be an absolute terror as a 1-2-3 technique DT in the NFL, but he's not a player worthy of the #3 pick right now.

Good stuff my friend. As in most instances, I will have to defer to someone who has actually followed players during their college careers as I only start looking at them during bowl games, Senior bowls, East/West Shrine games and combine but I also listen pretty intently to what people like Mayock, Ourlads etc say about them and I have heard noting but rave reviews on this kid.

Besides, I am sure you know that what moves a kid up the draft board (especially in the first round) isn't so much a combine workout at this point, but rather, the increased understanding of what types of players the teams are looking at.

A guy like this is moving up most boards because of the way the "Passing Teams" were left out of the big dance by teams that could apply pressure/collapse the pocket with their DT's. With 3-5 of these cats in this draft, a higher value will be assigned to them much like we saw with the QB's last year.

Again, good stuff though. Good to be talking ball with the office LB'r again. :clap:

Marrdro
03-03-2012, 02:16 AM
Great Comments Marr and Mr A. I love the Mayock interjection on the number of good DT available as well.

I also like the idea of Toon sliding a bit farther than most expect due to guys like Blackmon, and Alshawn Jeffrey from SC, then there is the receiver from GT who lit it up at the combine. If we are flexible and stay true to BPA and biggest need we will be fine.

Here is a wild thought........what about bringing in Osi from the Giants. Put him on the DL with Jared and KW and we are formidable for a while up front. I prefer using the draft due to cap and other reasons but this would be a move that makes sense from a FA perspective.
Thanks my friend.

You bring up some interesting discussion points...

1. Mayock. Love me some Mayock. I bet I don't even turn on ESPN in my war room this year.

2. Don't get confused about his comments on DT's this year. He is throwing a blanket statement out there that really covers alot of good 3 tech in this draft, which we have a glut of already on our roster. Not many big warpigs which we don't have.

3. I like the depth of WR and CB this year. I think we can get some nice depth out of this class regardless of were we draft them.

4. Osi. See my 3 tech comment in item 2. Although he would be a nice addition, who would you let go? Also, I think he is going to demand top dollar. If you pay to bring him in, it would probably eat up a good share of your CAP that you should probably be spending on a Garcon type WR.

Marrdro
03-03-2012, 02:30 AM
Marr
Couldnt agree more. I didnt see a whole lot from the skill positions on Offense that I didnt expect this combine. What I was pleased to see however is how deep this draft class is on the both lines, and in the secondary. The receivers and top Qbs are a nice story but we need to reboot our whole system. I was suprised by Kalil's athleticism (he could warrant the top pick for us),especially after hearing AP on Dan Patrick talk about who the team is telling him they are looking at. But with other teams lining up to get into the RGIII, Luck and the Blackmon issue we can pick up a couple picks which could turn into serious value for us. I favor taking a defensive lineman who can rush the passer as that seems like the only way to deter the Det and GB offenses (see NY Giants). The Corners and Safeties this year look really good, we all know how much help we need on the back end. All of the guys last night in the DB drills look to be a major upgrade for us. I think that we look to move a few aging veterans as well as a way to clear up the cap and start fresh also.

This is a great opportunity for the Vikes. Lets make sure to get the pick in on time, and no more Chris Cook's please.......
Some more good comments from my good friend Slav.

Quick question, those backend DB's your looking at, are they C2 types? I know I'm back on my soapbox here but it doesn't matter who is on the backend if our front 4 (especially our DT's) can't get it done.

On a side note, for the second year in a row, we saw our run defense slipping as well without the Phat Pat type.

K-will, Guion, Ballard, Griff, are all good 3 technique quys, just like our DB's are good C2 scheme guys, but without that big guy in the middle.

Can you imagine what kindof year JA would have had last year if the QB wasn't allowed to walk up in the pocket away from the outside rush? Remi and Evans have to go. We need a couple of these cats brought in this year.

I'm thinking that the staff liked what they saw in Ta'amu during the time they had with him at the senior bowl and would like to see one of the guys Mr. A mentioned below to be brought in for experience.

Again, good stuff my friend. Were talking some ball here now......:crazy:

slavinator
03-12-2012, 04:53 PM
For the FA's I am liking the Carl Nicks, and Brandon Carr discussions I think if we can pull that move off it helps with our draft preparations.

I am not as sold that the T2 style wont work, what I think the real issue is the T2 off coverage versus the T2 with a pressed corner look. By going with CB's who can play a bit of man and T2 we then become more versatile and can mix coverages better. I cant tell you how many times last year in looking at presnap allignments where the ball was going to go. Cgriff is 12 yds off the ball and they call a slant or a smoke screen to the slot receiver on that side. This, along with a lack of pass rush or any offensive approach spelled our doom last year.

What I saw at the combine this year was a group of CB's who were better at flipping their hips and demonstrated better recovery speed. Safeties and true corners both looked very solid and deep in the combine.

I hate to say it but we likely need to deal or move EJ as well. He just cannot cover the TE or extra receiver down the middle in the T2. Im definitely in favor of building through the draft, we just need too many parts to not get something in FA as a stop gap.

Here is the wild statement sure to draw some ire from folks. I think we need to look to move KW as well. While he has been solid, he is getting a little old we dont have a title run coming anytime soon so lets blow this thing all the way up in the interest of rebuilding and see what we can get for him.

tastywaves
03-13-2012, 10:45 AM
Thanks my friend.

You bring up some interesting discussion points...

1. Mayock. Love me some Mayock. I bet I don't even turn on ESPN in my war room this year.

2. Don't get confused about his comments on DT's this year. He is throwing a blanket statement out there that really covers alot of good 3 tech in this draft, which we have a glut of already on our roster. Not many big warpigs which we don't have.

3. I like the depth of WR and CB this year. I think we can get some nice depth out of this class regardless of were we draft them.

4. Osi. See my 3 tech comment in item 2. Although he would be a nice addition, who would you let go? Also, I think he is going to demand top dollar. If you pay to bring him in, it would probably eat up a good share of your CAP that you should probably be spending on a Garcon type WR.

Top 3-4 Nose Tackle Prospects 2012 (http://drafttek.com/2012-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-34-Nose-Tackles.asp)

I know, we don't run a 3-4 defense. But I think these are the cats Marr is looking at. 0-technique guys that can line up over the center.

Jean-Baptiste intrigues me as a later round pick. No where near as athletic a Poe, but how much does he drop off from a Ta'amu and a possible 4th round selection. J-B had a good Sr. Bowl and was disruptive.

Nick Jean-Baptiste (http://walterfootball.com/draft2012DT.php)


Nick Jean-Baptiste, DT/NT, Baylor
Height: 6-1. Weight: 335.
Projected 40 Time: 5.40.
Arm: 33. Hand: 9 3/4.
Projected Round (2012): 3-5.
3/13/12: Even though Jean-Baptiste was dominant at the East-West Shrine, he did not work out at the Combine. Throughout the week in Orlando, Jean-Baptiste showed major potential to be a nose tackle in a 4-3 or 3-4 defense. He was like a bowling ball, rolling through offensive linemen to cause disruption in the backfield. Every linemen that went against him had problems with his bull rush.

Jean-Baptiste has natural pad level and consistently gets underneath the pads of offensive linemen to push them straight back. As a senior, he totaled 36 tackles with 8.5 tackles for a loss, four sacks and three passes broken up.

skum
03-13-2012, 12:49 PM
Even if they don't participate in the drills, the combine is also an oppotunity for teams to interview guys, also their measurements in many cases are important.

Guys like Matt Kalil still participated in many drills, some guys just have to much to lose that they chose not to show their skills.. They do that under some circumstances in which they are comfortable, i have no problem with it.. And as someone else mentioned, it is just as much an oppotunity for small-school guys and guys projected in the later rounds to fly up draft boards, look at this guy Stephen Hill, WR from Georgia Tech, he will end up in the first round with a workout like that.