PDA

View Full Version : Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith declare McCoy "best RB in football"



MulletMullitia
11-02-2011, 09:59 AM
Just heard on ESPN first take. Not even a single person stood up for AP on the entire panel. Here we go again. Every year, it's somebody. Why doesn't AP get the respect he deserves? LeSean McCoy now!? Seriously? Put 8 in the box against McCoy, and he gets shut down worse than Chris Johnson. It's not rocket science. Any fast back could run behind a Howard Mudd offensive line, on a team QB'd by arguably the best athlete in football history. Not saying that McCoy isn't a good back having a good year, but this is getting ridiculous. We've heard it for 3 years with Chris Johnson, and now it starts with McCoy. How is this even an argument?

/rant

AngloVike
11-02-2011, 10:17 AM
Just heard on ESPN first take. Not even a single person stood up for AP on the entire panel. Here we go again. Every year, it's somebody. Why doesn't AP get the respect he deserves? LeSean McCoy now!? Seriously? Put 8 in the box against McCoy, and he gets shut down worse than Chris Johnson. It's not rocket science. Any fast back could run behind a Howard Mudd offensive line, on a team QB'd by arguably the best athlete in football history. Not saying that McCoy isn't a good back having a good year, but this is getting ridiculous. We've heard it for 3 years with Chris Johnson, and now it starts with McCoy. How is this even an argument?

/rant

well anything involving Skip Bayless is always worth disregarding as his words are always muffled due to his head being stuck up his arse.

MulletMullitia
11-02-2011, 10:56 AM
Okay, well I take back my remarks about Stephen A. They went in-depth on the topic, and Stephen A went to bat for AP. It turned into an AP discussion, so at least he got his respect. I'm shocked with Skip, considering he is such an Oklahoma homer. His argument is that LeSean McCoy is just fresher than AP. I agree that McCoy looks great, but he is saying this like AP has lost a step. It's just not the case. It's never said that he has faced 8 in the box on 95% of plays, for the last 3 seasons, and STILL averages more yards per carry than Chris Johnson and LeSean McCoy in their careers. AP is the best, and a future hall of famer. Nobody talked like this when LT was on top of the RB world. When will he finally get the respect he deserves?

12purplepride28
11-02-2011, 12:09 PM
Yah this is retarded. Every year it's AP vs Someone. Then the next years it's someone else vs AP. Put Lesean on our team where we have virtually no WRs that people respect and he'll be shut down. APs been beating 8-9 in the box his whole career.

Purple Floyd
11-02-2011, 12:41 PM
His job is to generate traffic and get people talking. Looks like he did his job even if it makes him look like a douche.

battleaxe4cheese
11-02-2011, 09:04 PM
This just in!

I declare Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith are both imbeciles. Both these knuckleheads in a Chrysler imperial couldn't stop an AP stiff arm. End of story.

Traveling_Vike
11-02-2011, 11:19 PM
Who cares what the Heads think? We know better, and that is all that matters.

Although i would keep an eye on Arian Foster...

singersp
11-03-2011, 07:54 AM
It's never said that he has faced 8 in the box on 95% of plays, for the last 3 seasons, and STILL averages more yards per carry than Chris Johnson and LeSean McCoy in their careers.

I guess this is why it's never said.........

Chris Johnson career avg: 5.0YPC
LeSean McCoy career avg: 4.7YPC
AD (Last 3 years): 4.6YPC

pro1ml
11-03-2011, 09:15 AM
He's getting some love from Florio at least.


Peterson faces most eight man fronts in league

Adrian Petersonís season has once again slipped under the radar because he plays on a lousy team.

Heís the league leader in rushes, rushing yards, and rushing touchdowns, which is all the more impressive because teams know whatís coming when they face the Vikings.

Mike Sando of ESPN.com reports that no running back faces more eight-man fronts than Peterson. He has 59 runs against eight-man fronts, for 217 yards and four touchdowns.

If you donít add an extra defender against Peterson, he will wreck you. (Jon Gruden voice.) Peterson averages 5.37 yards-per-carry when the opposition doesnít stack the box against him.

Sando notes that Frank Gore ranks second in the league in facing eight-man fronts. Thatís a sign that opponents still donít respect San Franciscoís passing game much.

These stats help show what Iíve thought the last two years: Peterson is playing some of the best football of his career, but this Vikings team is holding him back.

It would be a shame if they waste the prime of an all-time greatís career.

C Mac D
11-03-2011, 10:30 AM
McCoy and Peterson are both top-notch running backs. Just glad we have one of them.

MulletMullitia
11-03-2011, 12:40 PM
I guess this is why it's never said.........

Chris Johnson career avg: 5.0YPC
LeSean McCoy career avg: 4.7YPC
AD (Last 3 years): 4.6YPC

Wrong, Chris Johnson's career avg is 4.7. Check your stats.

So...like I said...

Adrian Peterson: 4.8
LeSean McCoy: 4.7
Chris Johnson: 4.7

battleaxe4cheese
11-03-2011, 05:40 PM
Wrong, Chris Johnson's career avg is 4.7. Check your stats.

So...like I said...

Adrian Peterson: 4.8
LeSean McCoy: 4.7
Chris Johnson: 4.7


I like your stats better. :bow:

TrojanVike28
11-03-2011, 07:25 PM
Chris Johnson shouldn't even be in this conversation. He's a disgrace to runningbacks. He's terrible. As for LeSean McCoy, when does he ever face 8 men in the box? Rarely/or never! Peterson is by far the best back in the league. Stephen A. Smith is a Philly homer and Skip Bayless hates Adrian Peterson. He calls him Adrian "Pedestrian" if that's not hate, I don't know what is.

singersp
11-04-2011, 06:59 AM
Where are you getting your stats from? Marrdro's spread sheets?

Sorry, I did have McCoy & Johnson's numbers flipped, but both still had higher averages than AD's average over his past 3 years.

Again, here are the stats that say you're wrong;

LeSean McCoy: 5.0
LeSean McCoy, RB for the Philadelphia Eagles at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/leseanmccoy/79607/profile)

Chris Johnson: 4.7
Chris Johnson, RB for the Tennessee Titans at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/chrisjohnson/262/profile)

Adrian Peterson (Last 3 years): 4.8, 4.6 & 4.4 respectively. Avg. of those 3 years: 4.6
Adrian Peterson, RB for the Minnesota Vikings at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/adrianpeterson/2507164/profile)

5.0>4.7>4.6

singersp
11-04-2011, 07:07 AM
I like your stats better. :bow:

Of course you do. And if he erroneously said the Vikings were 6-2, you'd like that better too.

vikinggreg
11-04-2011, 02:00 PM
Where are you getting your stats from? Marrdro's spread sheets?

Sorry, I did have McCoy & Johnson's numbers flipped, but both still had higher averages than AD's average over his past 3 years.Again, here are the stats that say you're wrong;

LeSean McCoy: 5.0
LeSean McCoy, RB for the Philadelphia Eagles at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/leseanmccoy/79607/profile)

Chris Johnson: 4.7
Chris Johnson, RB for the Tennessee Titans at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/chrisjohnson/262/profile)

Adrian Peterson (Last 3 years): 4.8, 4.6 & 4.4 respectively. Avg. of those 3 years: 4.6
Adrian Peterson, RB for the Minnesota Vikings at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/adrianpeterson/2507164/profile)

5.0>4.7>4.6

Not if you want to compare apples to apples

Johnson in the last 3 years is 4.2

5.6 > 4.3 > 2.8 average is 4.2

I don't think thats higher than 4.6 but I might be missing something with selective math/stat keeping

C Mac D
11-04-2011, 03:33 PM
Ha, Singer only looks at Peterson's past three years? Once again, Singer's Peterson-hate parade continues.

NDVikingFan66
11-04-2011, 03:57 PM
You cant take an average for each year, total them, and divide by 3. That is not a Yards Per Carry Average. That is a season average

Total Rushing Yards divided by total number of rushing attempts gives you a Yards Per Carry Average.

Here you go

Carries Yards
McCoy 2009 135 754
2010 207 1080
2011 155 637
3 Yr Total 497 2471 4.971830986 Average

Johnson 2009 107 302
2010 316 1364
2011 358 2006
3 Yr Total 781 3672 4.701664533 Average

Peterson 2009 167 798
2010 283 1298
2011 314 1383
3 Yr Total 764 3479 4.553664921 Average

Based on Yards Per Carry only, McCoy would be the better statistical back. That is why stats only tell part of the story.

Make sense.

battleaxe4cheese
11-04-2011, 05:44 PM
Of course you do. And if he erroneously said the Vikings were 6-2, you'd like that better too.

Wow. Serious much? Switch to decaf my friend you'll live longer.

vikinggreg
11-04-2011, 09:12 PM
Which running backs see eight-man fronts - NFC West Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/50349/which-running-backs-see-eight-man-fronts)


Peterson has 59 such rushes for 217 yards and four touchdowns, with 134 of those 217 yards -- nearly 62 percent -- coming after contact

Peterson faces most eight man fronts in league | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/03/peterson-faces-most-eight-man-fronts-in-league/)


Peterson averages 5.37 yards-per-carry when the opposition doesnít stack the box against him

jargomcfargo
11-05-2011, 12:38 AM
Who would you rather have on your team ?
End of debate.

singersp
11-05-2011, 06:51 AM
Ha, Singer only looks at Peterson's past three years? Once again, Singer's Peterson-hate parade continues.

Once again CmacD comes in in the middle of a movie & pretends to know what's going on.

Perhaps using AD's last 3 years only has something to do with the claim....

"AD has averaged more yards per carry in the last three years facing 8 men in the box, than McCoy or Johnson have during their entire careers"

In order to verify it one would take AD's YPC over the last 3 years against McCoy & Johnson's career averages. Understand?


BTW, I don't hate AD. I'm just not going to pretend he doesn't make mistakes, is perfect at every aspect of the running game or that no one can out perform him.

singersp
11-05-2011, 06:58 AM
Not if you want to compare apples to apples

Johnson in the last 3 years is 4.2

5.6 > 4.3 > 2.8 average is 4.2

I don't think thats higher than 4.6 but I might be missing something with selective math/stat keeping

Were not comparing apples to apples. This is the problem when only the last quote gets shown & not all the quotes quoted.

What is trying to be proven or debunked is this;

AD has averaged more yards per carry in the last three years facing 8 men in the box, than McCoy or Johnson have during their entire careers

Now, rework your numbers using that.

singersp
11-05-2011, 07:04 AM
You cant take an average for each year, total them, and divide by 3. That is not a Yards Per Carry Average. That is a season average

Total Rushing Yards divided by total number of rushing attempts gives you a Yards Per Carry Average.

Here you go

Carries Yards
McCoy 2009 135 754
2010 207 1080
2011 155 637
3 Yr Total 497 2471 4.971830986 Average

Johnson 2009 107 302
2010 316 1364
2011 358 2006
3 Yr Total 781 3672 4.701664533 Average

Peterson 2009 167 798
2010 283 1298
2011 314 1383
3 Yr Total 764 3479 4.553664921 Average

Based on Yards Per Carry only, McCoy would be the better statistical back. That is why stats only tell part of the story.

Make sense.

Again, this is what is trying to be proven or debunked;

AD has averaged more yards per carry in the last three years facing 8 men in the box, than McCoy or Johnson have during their entire careers

Ergo, use AD's avg the last 3 years against McCoy's & Johnson's career avgs.


You cant take an average for each year, total them, and divide by 3. That is not a Yards Per Carry Average. That is a season average.

Peterson 2009 167 798
2010 283 1298
2011 314 1383
3 Yr Total 764 3479 4.553664921 Average

(2011 & 2009 are flip-flopped)

4.553664921 rounds off to be 4.6 doesn't it?

singersp
11-05-2011, 07:26 AM
Which running backs see eight-man fronts - NFC West Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/50349/which-running-backs-see-eight-man-fronts)



Peterson faces most eight man fronts in league | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/03/peterson-faces-most-eight-man-fronts-in-league/)

Outside of Rosenthal throwing the Vikings under the bus I like this because;

A. It shows, contrary to some fans beliefs, AD is not the only RB to face 8 man fronts.

B. A. It shows, contrary to some fans beliefs, AD does not face 8 man fronts on every carry. 59 times in 167 attempts is 35% of the time. 65% of the time he does not.

C. If our QB & receiving corp can start getting more passes deeper or into an area of the field that pulls the 8th man out of the box, we'll get a lot more production out of AD that 35% of the time. If they elect to keep 8 men in the box, we should be torching them with more passing TD's, provided our WR's could get separation & catch the passes.

thorshammer
11-05-2011, 09:00 AM
Peterson has beeen the best running, running back since entering the league. Peterson is still getting better. Being a Viking fan ..... I still think he has a lot of years ahead of him and he will continue to get even better. I think overall when it's all said and done he will be remembered long after these other two backs.

MulletMullitia
11-06-2011, 07:46 PM
Once again CmacD comes in in the middle of a movie & pretends to know what's going on.

Perhaps using AD's last 3 years only has something to do with the claim....

"AD has averaged more yards per carry in the last three years facing 8 men in the box, than McCoy or Johnson have during their entire careers"

In order to verify it one would take AD's YPC over the last 3 years against McCoy & Johnson's career averages. Understand?


BTW, I don't hate AD. I'm just not going to pretend he doesn't make mistakes, is perfect at every aspect of the running game or that no one can out perform him.

Wow, thanks for the serious misquote. It's not obvious at all that you changed it to make your argument valid.

What I really said:

"It's never said that he has faced 8 in the box on 95% of plays, for the last 3 seasons, and STILL averages more yards per carry than Chris Johnson and LeSean McCoy in their careers."

At the time of my post, it was a fact. McCoy's YPC has since raised since his last game. But that's besides the point. I didn't ever say "In the last 3 seasons, AP has more YPC". I said that he has faced 8 men in the box on 95% of plays the passed 3 seasons, and STILL has more YPC in his career than those 2 backs. Which is completely true and you know it. You've seen the games. You may have misunderstood my initial statement, but that doesn't give you the right to misquote me to prove your point. C'mon now.

singersp
11-07-2011, 07:18 AM
Wow, thanks for the serious misquote. It's not obvious at all that you changed it to make your argument valid.

What I really said:

"It's never said that he has faced 8 in the box on 95% of plays, for the last 3 seasons, and STILL averages more yards per carry than Chris Johnson and LeSean McCoy in their careers."

At the time of my post, it was a fact. McCoy's YPC has since raised since his last game. But that's besides the point.

Umm, again no.

Your post was made just 5 days ago on Wednesday 11/2/11. No games were played since then that "upped" any ones stats in any of the subsequent posts unless there was a Wednesday night game I didn't know about.



I didn't ever say "In the last 3 seasons, AP has more YPC". I said that he has faced 8 men in the box on 95% of plays the passed 3 seasons, and STILL has more YPC in his career than those 2 backs. Which is completely true and you know it. You've seen the games. You may have misunderstood my initial statement, but that doesn't give you the right to misquote me to prove your point. C'mon now.

When I read ďhe has faced 8 in the box on 95% of plays, for the last 3 seasons, and STILL averages more yards per carry than Chris Johnson and LeSean McCoy in their careers." I took that as you claiming that AD had more average yards during those 3 years he faced 8 men in the box than than Chris Johnson and LeSean McCoy did during their careers.


I didn't ever say "In the last 3 seasons, AP has more YPC". I said that he has faced 8 men in the box on 95% of plays the passed 3 seasons, and STILL has more YPC in his career than those 2 backs. Which is completely true and you know it. You've seen the games.

Umm, again no. Itís not completely true

Hereís the career average of all 3 RBís. Entire careers this time, unless your going to mean something else in your next post.

LeSean McCoy: 5.0
LeSean McCoy, RB for the Philadelphia Eagles at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/leseanmccoy/79607/profile)

Adrian Peterson: 4.8
Adrian Peterson, RB for the Minnesota Vikings at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/adrianpeterson/2507164/profile)

Chris Johnson: 4.7
Chris Johnson, RB for the Tennessee Titans at NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/player/chrisjohnson/262/profile)

The only thing that' changes is AD averages more YPC than Johnson.

McCoy STILL averages more YPC than AD has over the course of their careers. Ergo your statement that AD STILL has more YPC in his career than both those backs, is false.

thorshammer
11-07-2011, 06:02 PM
Something to think about. Answer honestly. If Philly or Tenn could trade even, back for back, with us would they do it. I think most people would agree McCoy or Johnson even up for AD that's a trade both of those teams would take All Day. And I think that would end this discussion.

singersp
11-08-2011, 07:35 AM
Something to think about. Answer honestly. If Philly or Tenn could trade even, back for back, with us would they do it. I think most people would agree McCoy or Johnson even up for AD that's a trade both of those teams would take All Day. And I think that would end this discussion.

I don't think the Eagles would make the deal. Why would they?

Right now the Eagles are getting more production out of McCoy than the Vikings are out of AD. Plus, if the number of receptions are any indication, McCoy has better hands than AD & therefore is more versatile in the offense.

Add to that that McCoy is only in his 3rd year, 2nd as a major starter, of his career & AD is in his 5th.

Then look at salaries;

McCoy 2011: $490,000, 2012: $575,000

AD 2011: $8.25 million, 2012: $8 million, 2013: $11.25 million, 2014: $11.75 million

Why would the Eagles pay $7.5+ million more per year for similar production for a RB who probably has less years left in his career? Who would they cut to make the cap room?

McCoy has more yards, more YPC, more TD's & less fumbles in as many touches as AD does.

If it isn't broke, don't try & fix it.

Zeus
11-08-2011, 07:46 AM
Right now the Titans are getting more production out of McCoy than the Vikings are out of AD. Plus, if the number of receptions are any indication, McCoy has better hands than AD & therefore is more versatile in the offense.

The Titans aren't getting any production out of McCoy because he plays for Philadelphia.

=Z=

singersp
11-08-2011, 07:50 AM
The Titans aren't getting any production out of McCoy because he plays for Philadelphia.

=Z=

Sorry for the mixup. It's corrected.

Mr Anderson
11-08-2011, 09:49 AM
To call someone the best back in the league over Adrian Peterson you have to look at their skillset.

LeSean McCoy? Sure, he's explosive. As explosive as Peterson? He's never had a season with a long run greater than Peterson's season long. Runs of 20+ and 40+ yards? Peterson's got the edge. What about long receptions? There have been seasons where Peterson had longer receptions and seasons where McCoy had longer. But Peterson has the longer career reception of the two. Which is not to claim Peterson is a better receiver than McCoy, I don't think he is, but it's a matter of usage. Peterson can catch the ball, we just don't utilize him as frequently as a receiver as the Eagles do McCoy. While I'm unsure of the receiver debate, I do know Peterson has the longer receptions. Why? He's just better with the ball in his hands, and no one can deny that.

Read through some Eagles play-by-plays. "L.McCoy right tackle to PHI 46 for X yards" "-L.McCoy right end to CHI 22 for X yards" rarely will you see "L.McCoy up middle to PHI 33 for 8 yards" or "3-1 PHI 21 L.McCoy up middle for X yards. First down." McCoy has trouble running between the tackles. He is not a power back. He doesn't score goal line TDs as a rusher. He's more likely to convert a short yardage play as a receiver than he is a runner.

The Eagles have the ultimate threat to run at QB in Mike Vick and deep threats at receiver. That makes it a lot harder to defend against the run. They get McCoy the ball creatively. Slower developing runs up the middle, putting him in space with Vick faking the run the other way. Every team commits a spy to Vick, he has to be accounted for every play. Someone follows him no matter where he goes on the field. They'd rather take the chance at moving one defender out of the box as insurance against a big play by Vick. They run DeSean Jackson deep and Celek on a post or in and clear the flat for a late releasing McCoy. They direct snap to McCoy on occasion.

If you put McCoy in Peterson's shoes, he wouldn't be averaging 5ypc. Peterson can catch the ball, he's proven that now. He can do everything McCoy does. McCoy hasn't proven his value as a short yardage and goal line back.

What can McCoy do better than Peterson? Not "how is McCoy used more effectively than Peterson" or "how are McCoy's stats better than Peterson's?" What makes McCoy a better player than Adrian Peterson in terms of ability?

Caine
11-08-2011, 11:19 AM
Adrian Petersonís season has once again slipped under the radar because he plays on a lousy team.

That sums it up right there. Peterson gets overlooked because he's the ONLY trick in the Vikings playbook right now...and teams game plan for him to shut him down.

Those of you from the Barry Sanders years may recall how often the RB conversation of those times would shift to other RBs' being "The Best". Fact is, Barry was, but because he carried a crap ass Detroit team, other backs on glitzier teams would appear to overshadow him.

Fact is, AP is the best back in football right now. Hands down. No other back could do what he does facing the same level of adversity. If he played for a team with a legit passing attack, he's absolutely DESTROY opponents. Too bad our FO/HC can't seem to figure that out.

Caine

Marrdro
11-08-2011, 12:28 PM
As for LeSean McCoy, when does he ever face 8 men in the box?
ALL, let me say this again, ALL RB's face 8 man fronts my friend.

On a side note, why in the heck do you guys/gals let these yutz's spin you up. You know thats all their trying to do.

singersp
11-09-2011, 06:37 AM
.....If you put McCoy in Peterson's shoes, he wouldn't be averaging 5ypc. Peterson can catch the ball, he's proven that now. He can do everything McCoy does.

He can catch the ball, just not very well. That's been a known fact for years. Is he better than he was? Yes, but outside of some dump offs, he still has problems.


The preseason storyline that Peterson would thrive as a pass-catcher in Musgrave's new offense faded through the first seven games as the all-pro running back's receiving production dipped from previous seasons.

To be sure, Peterson does not have the best hands on the team, and he dropped several passes in preseason workouts.

Vikings' plan to use Adrian Peterson as a receiver might finally come to pass - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_19211125)

singersp
11-09-2011, 07:00 AM
Fact is, AP is the best back in football right now. Hands down. No other back could do what he does facing the same level of adversity. If he played for a team with a legit passing attack, he's absolutely DESTROY opponents. Too bad our FO/HC can't seem to figure that out.

Caine

We had a "legit" passing attack in 2009 when Favre was here. Favre passed for 4,202 yards, 2nd best in the NFL. While AD did score a lot of TD's that year, he averaged 4.4YPC which was the worst average of his career.

I think we need a legit deep passing attack to get AD's production up. A lot of Favre's passes weren't deep & were in the zone that allowed teams to keep 8 men in the box more often. The key is to stretch them wide & deep & successfully complete passes to pull some of those players out of the box even more.

Lets also not forget that AD does not see 8 men in the box on all his carries like some here believe. Not 95% like MM is trying to sell. He doesn't even face 8 men in the box on the majority of his carries. So far this year he's faced 8 men in the box on 59 of 166 rushing attempts, which is 36% of his carries.

tastywaves
11-09-2011, 11:40 AM
Subjective argument and is up to the individual to decide who he thinks is best. Some folks relish a jack of all trade back that feeds their logical brain functions of more abilities is better. Others would like to see a back truly dominate as a rusher and then give some bonus points for catching and blocking (this would be me). Some would look at stats as being their benchmarks for their greatness scale and others like to use what their eyes see on the field and the impact he has on the game (this would be me).

If you want to have an argument and try to lay down "facts", then stats can be used to help your cause, even though most likely flawed (as are most stats in football). Doesn't make that person any more right than the guy that just simply states "AD is the best back in the NFL", if that's the way he feels. You can use polls, expert opinions or any other bullshit that you want. At the end of the day, it's about whatever you feel about a particular running back.

With that preamble, I think AD is the best back in football and I would take him over any other RB currently in the league and I don't care to lay down some stat filled, rationally perceived argument as to why that statement is fact. It's simply what my eyes see and my brain interprets when I watch that guy carry the rock.

jmcdon00
11-09-2011, 01:54 PM
That sums it up right there. Peterson gets overlooked because he's the ONLY trick in the Vikings playbook right now...and teams game plan for him to shut him down.

Those of you from the Barry Sanders years may recall how often the RB conversation of those times would shift to other RBs' being "The Best". Fact is, Barry was, but because he carried a crap ass Detroit team, other backs on glitzier teams would appear to overshadow him.

Fact is, AP is the best back in football right now. Hands down. No other back could do what he does facing the same level of adversity. If he played for a team with a legit passing attack, he's absolutely DESTROY opponents. Too bad our FO/HC can't seem to figure that out.

Caine
Except he played for a team with a good passing attack, and had a career low ypc.(though still a good season). His best season came as a rookie with Tarvaris Jackson.
Chris Johnson had his best year with Vince Young at QB. Now with a Hasselback on his way to 4,000 yards he is having a bad year.
The Patriots averaged 4.4ypc in 08, without Tom Brady.
06-3.9
07-4.1
09-4.1
10-4.3
Not exactly sure how one effects the other, but it is not as simply as a great passing attack opens up the running game. If that were the case backs for the Colts, Patriots, Saints would be dominating the league.

tastywaves
11-09-2011, 03:05 PM
Except he played for a team with a good passing attack, and had a career low ypc.(though still a good season). His best season came as a rookie with Tarvaris Jackson.
Chris Johnson had his best year with Vince Young at QB. Now with a Hasselback on his way to 4,000 yards he is having a bad year.
The Patriots averaged 4.4ypc in 08, without Tom Brady.
06-3.9
07-4.1
09-4.1
10-4.3
Not exactly sure how one effects the other, but it is not as simply as a great passing attack opens up the running game. If that were the case backs for the Colts, Patriots, Saints would be dominating the league.

My take on it is that teams that are dominant in passing do so because they are focused on it. In practice, play calling, personnel, blocking techniques,.... Teams that are dominant in running tend to do so because they are focused on it in practice, play calling, personnel, blocking,....

We had a long discussion on this before in an OL thread. For whatever reason, it seems very hard for teams that are effective in pass blocking to also be effective in run blocking and the same in reverse. I am clearly no expert, but it seems to me that they are very different techniques. With run blocking, you are firing off the snap and trying to move your opponent backwards or sideways. With pass blocking you are trying to hold your position and keep the guy in front of you. You practice one more than the other, you probably get better at it. With the fine line between good and bad in the NFL on any given play, I think it could be as simple as that. You can also throw the personnel involved, but just from watching the Vikings it seems we have been able to do well (at times) at one, but very seldom at both.

All that being said, a run oriented offense such as the Vikings, should certainly be able to benefit from an offense that stretches the field whether vertically or horizontally. As long as the Vikings stay focused on the run they should continue to excel in this area with a guy like AD in the backfield. Ponder's play appears to be helping AD, we'll see as the season unfolds if that continues to hold true.