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Purple Floyd
10-31-2011, 09:06 AM
The Vikings had resisted the urge to trade for that washed up has been and went into the season by throwing that poor rookie to the Wolves, what do you think our record would be right now after seeing both of them play? I have to believe he wins us at least some of the games we lost by not falling apart in the second half and the team would have played harder knowing the QB wasn't going to let them down( Or at least had a chance to bring them back)

With Ponder playing all year I would have them at 4-4 right now.

Opinions?

12purplepride28
10-31-2011, 09:48 AM
16-0. Right now.

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 10:27 AM
Good question.

I am sure that young Ponder would have made mistakes, starting with the Chargers game that could have cost us games, but the reverse is, he might have learned from those mistakes, to the point that he wouldn't have made the ones he did against the PUKERS.

My guess, atleast 1, possibly 2 more wins.

What is even more interesting is, what, if any, impact will the lack of starts have on the rest of the season.

He sure seems to be poised, knows were to go with the ball and can make the offensive plays when we need them. I for one am looking forward to watching, not only the rest of the season, but his whole career.

On a side note, I wonder what this team would be like if we would have paid TJ and Rice and let young Ponder sit on the bench for a couple three years.:think:

Traveling_Vike
10-31-2011, 01:06 PM
Despite his mediocre performances, McNabb was not the reason we lost ANY of those games. It's possible that Ponder might have won us one, or even two of those, but the rest of the team would have needed to step up along with him.

Don't get me wrong, I like the kid a lot and am happy with what I have seen from him so far, but I honestly doubt it would have made much difference. There were too many other problems with this team, and many of them still exist.

The Vikings are still only one game behind where I had them in my pre-season prediction, and my final record had them finishing 8-8. At that time, I had no idea when or if we'd see Ponder, so I had to look at other factors. Either way, I saw a slow start and a fast finish. I still hope and expect to see that.

But as much as I do like Ponder, I am not building any shrines just yet. He may yet cost us a game that we might otherwise have won. After all, he is still a rookie with no off-season to work from. I hope not, but it may happen.

We will live through it either way, and he can only benefit from the experience.

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 01:10 PM
Despite his mediocre performances, McNabb was not the reason we lost ANY of those games. It's possible that Ponder might have won us one, or even two of those, but the rest of the team would have needed to step up along with him.

Don't get me wrong, I like the kid a lot and am happy with what I have seen from him so far, but I honestly doubt it would have made much difference. There were too many other problems with this team, and many of them still exist.

The Vikings are still only one game behind where I had them in my pre-season prediction, and my final record had them finishing 8-8. At that time, I had no idea when or if we'd see Ponder, so I had to look at other factors. Either way, I saw a slow start and a fast finish. I still hope and expect to see that.

But as much as I do like Ponder, I am not building any shrines just yet. He may yet cost us a game that we might otherwise have won. After all, he is still a rookie with no off-season to work from. I hope not, but it may happen.

We will live through it either way, and he can only benefit from the experience.
Of course he is gonna cost us games. Guess what, it won't be just this year either. QB's do it.

However, coma,

If Dnabb would have completed a pass here or there in any one of those games were we needed to extend the drive, burn the clock, keep our defense (and their offense) off the field we would have won a couple of those games.

Judging by the way young Ponder plays on 3rd downs, I don't think its a big stretch to say we would have won a couple of them.

Purple Floyd
10-31-2011, 09:35 PM
Despite his mediocre performances, McNabb was not the reason we lost ANY of those games. It's possible that Ponder might have won us one, or even two of those, but the rest of the team would have needed to step up along with him.

Don't get me wrong, I like the kid a lot and am happy with what I have seen from him so far, but I honestly doubt it would have made much difference. There were too many other problems with this team, and many of them still exist.

The Vikings are still only one game behind where I had them in my pre-season prediction, and my final record had them finishing 8-8. At that time, I had no idea when or if we'd see Ponder, so I had to look at other factors. Either way, I saw a slow start and a fast finish. I still hope and expect to see that.

But as much as I do like Ponder, I am not building any shrines just yet. He may yet cost us a game that we might otherwise have won. After all, he is still a rookie with no off-season to work from. I hope not, but it may happen.

We will live through it either way, and he can only benefit from the experience.

I agree with you to an extent, but what I see is that his third down completion percentage alone may have been enough to keep us from blowing the lead in the first 3 games alone. At this point I in no way see him as the guy who takes the team on his shoulders and carries them to victory like Kirby Puckett could, but I also feel that the whole team plays more confidently with him because he has shown he can make a throw when he needs to and that type of thing can elevate a whole team to look better.

But yes, he still cannot be on defense stopping teams from torching our secondary and he cannot be on ST making a TD saving tackle on Hester. But what he can do just may have been enough a few times to make the difference.

Traveling_Vike
11-01-2011, 12:24 AM
I agree with you to an extent, but what I see is that his third down completion percentage alone may have been enough to keep us from blowing the lead in the first 3 games alone. At this point I in no way see him as the guy who takes the team on his shoulders and carries them to victory like Kirby Puckett could, but I also feel that the whole team plays more confidently with him because he has shown he can make a throw when he needs to and that type of thing can elevate a whole team to look better.

But yes, he still cannot be on defense stopping teams from torching our secondary and he cannot be on ST making a TD saving tackle on Hester. But what he can do just may have been enough a few times to make the difference.

No argument from me on any of that. It's just really hard to play the "what if" game, because you can't ever really know for certain.

It's possible Ponder might have helped us win those early games, Then again, maybe the coaches were right and he wasn't ready yet, and would have gone into the tank and taken the team with him. Unless you have a time machine and can go back to change things, no one will ever know.

I tend to be very cautious and conservative when making those kinds of guesses. Just me, but I guess I would rather be a little pessimistic and proven wrong and be happy, rather than too optimistic and constantly disappointed.

MulletMullitia
11-01-2011, 03:29 AM
The Vikings had resisted the urge to trade for that washed up has been and went into the season by throwing that poor rookie to the Wolves, what do you think our record would be right now after seeing both of them play? I have to believe he wins us at least some of the games we lost by not falling apart in the second half and the team would have played harder knowing the QB wasn't going to let them down( Or at least had a chance to bring them back)

With Ponder playing all year I would have them at 4-4 right now.

Opinions?

Assuming that our abomination of an offensive line didn't get him hurt to this point, I would agree with your 4-4. Not that he is superman already. But rookie momentum goes a long way. Look at Andy Dalton. Dalton will never be better than an average NFL QB, and he is leading his team to a 5-2 start and a crazy hype-train. With no supporting cast, Christian and AP would be very capable of leading us to 4-4 with the help of a man possessed / quiet DPOY candidate Jared Allen. I'm on board your Ponder Bandwagon, Mr. Floyd, and I'm riding shotgun :)

singersp
11-01-2011, 08:25 AM
Hard to say considering we would have still been starting Berrian in most of those games.

Would we have won Sunday if Berrian had started?

Purple Mk1
11-01-2011, 08:44 AM
On a side note, I wonder what this team would be like if we would have paid TJ and Rice and let young Ponder sit on the bench for a couple three years.:think:

The Seahawks? :think:

scottishvike
11-01-2011, 03:21 PM
I tend to be very cautious and conservative when making those kinds of guesses. Just me, but I guess I would rather be a little pessimistic and proven wrong and be happy, rather than too optimistic and constantly disappointed.

I thought that was what being a Viking fan is all about. ;)

Back on topic I don't think having Ponder from the start would have made much difference to the record, unless he has superman like ability playing in the secondary.

singersp
11-02-2011, 07:04 AM
The Vikings had resisted the urge to trade for that washed up has been and went into the season by throwing that poor rookie to the Wolves, what do you think our record would be right now after seeing both of them play? I have to believe he wins us at least some of the games we lost by not falling apart in the second half and the team would have played harder knowing the QB wasn't going to let them down( Or at least had a chance to bring them back)

With Ponder playing all year I would have them at 4-4 right now.

Opinions?


And you wanted them to start Ponder based on what? His tryout?

Certainly you wouldn't want them to start him based on anything he did at FSU, because his ability to throw on the run, make quick decisions, use his feet to extend plays, his accuracy, his arm strength, his poise & his ability to think quickly all changed (according to you) the moment he was drafted.

So, IYO, since any tape of him at FSU would be worthless & without anything else to base his abilities on, what would prompt the Vikings not to grab a vet during free agency & start Ponder day 1?

Purple Floyd
11-02-2011, 07:07 AM
And you wanted them to start Ponder based on what? His tryout?

Certainly you wouldn't want them to start him based on anything he did at FSU, because his ability to throw on the run, make quick decisions, use his feet to extend plays, his accuracy, his arm strength, his poise & his ability to think quickly all changed (according to you) the moment he was drafted.

So, IYO, since any tape of him at FSU would be worthless & without anything else to base his abilities on, what would prompt the Vikings not to grab a vet during free agency & start Ponder day 1?

Well, I read your analysis of how fast he was at the age of 2 in his huggies and decided that was just what we need.

singersp
11-02-2011, 07:39 AM
Well, I read your analysis of how fast he was at the age of 2 in his huggies and decided that was just what we need.

Sorry, I didn't analyze him at the age of 2 or the 6 grade or at anytime he was at FSU, but go ahead & avoid the question with yet another cutesy reply.

tarkenton10
11-02-2011, 01:51 PM
The Vikings had resisted the urge to trade for that washed up has been and went into the season by throwing that poor rookie to the Wolves, what do you think our record would be right now after seeing both of them play? I have to believe he wins us at least some of the games we lost by not falling apart in the second half and the team would have played harder knowing the QB wasn't going to let them down( Or at least had a chance to bring them back)

With Ponder playing all year I would have them at 4-4 right now.

Opinions?

We don't know that for sure. He was quoted as saying that the game is still going pretty fast for him at the beginning of the season. We may have ruined him by playing him too fast . No one knows what would have happened. I for one am happy that we waited and let him learn for a little while.

thorshammer
11-02-2011, 02:17 PM
I honestly think we would have more wins than we do today ..... Not sure how many but I definitely think we would have at minimum another win or so ..... Ponder proved he can convert third downs instead of throwing the ball into the ground.

battleaxe4cheese
11-02-2011, 08:53 PM
Good question.

I am sure that young Ponder would have made mistakes, starting with the Chargers game that could have cost us games, but the reverse is, he might have learned from those mistakes, to the point that he wouldn't have made the ones he did against the PUKERS.

My guess, atleast 1, possibly 2 more wins.

What is even more interesting is, what, if any, impact will the lack of starts have on the rest of the season.

He sure seems to be poised, knows were to go with the ball and can make the offensive plays when we need them. I for one am looking forward to watching, not only the rest of the season, but his whole career.

On a side note, I wonder what this team would be like if we would have paid TJ and Rice and let young Ponder sit on the bench for a couple three years.:think:


I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment. Winning more than two more games is a stretch. Considering our secondary/linebacker woes, two more wins is all I can give him.

On a side note, I am very pleased with his third down decision making and conversion rate. This is something we were badly missing in the first part of the season under Donny. I don't believe that all falls on Donny based on limited to no off season...timing issues and the like. Progress is what is needed with Ponder and so far it's looking good my friends.

Marrdro
11-08-2011, 01:53 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment. Winning more than two more games is a stretch. Considering our secondary/linebacker woes, two more wins is all I can give him.

On a side note, I am very pleased with his third down decision making and conversion rate. This is something we were badly missing in the first part of the season under Donny. I don't believe that all falls on Donny based on limited to no off season...timing issues and the like. Progress is what is needed with Ponder and so far it's looking good my friends.
Good stuff my friend. Take it one step further........

Lets say he helped us to atleast 1 more win. We'd be 3-5 going into the softest part of our schedule.

GB - I say we upset them this week - Win
Oak - Win
Atlanta - Tough one, they are starting to get consistent. Loss
Denver - Win
Detroit - Just picked up a RB. Loss
Ain'ts - Like Atlanta, not very consistent. We get a win on one of them. - Win
Deadskins - Win
Bores - Who shows up. And do they need a win. My guess, we beat them regardless - Win

That'd make us 9-7. Not to far off from my guess of 10-6/11-5. The good thing is, he is under center now and we are only gonna see him get better.

Don't get me wrong, he is gonna mess up. All of them do. Problem is, those messups would be alot less going into the second half if he would have been given a chance to learn a bit from those messups from the early part of the season.

Marrdro
11-08-2011, 02:08 PM
The Seahawks? :think:
LOL, well played.

Hey, have you seen what TJ and that kid, you know Baldwin, the undrafted one, have been doing together.

Catches, yards, avg, TD
Baldwin 28, 234, 15.5, 2 (Half year of stats)

Almost could be said that TJ is making Baldwin into a good reciever. Wasn't the same said about the Noodle and Percy?

Catches, yards, avg, TD
Percy 60, 790, 13.2, 6 (full rookie year with the Noodle)

Heck, one could almost argue that TJ and Percy would have had a better year, based on what he is doing with Baldwin, if you compare Percies stats from this year so far with Baldwins.

Catches, yards, avg, TD
Percy 31, 334, 10.8, 0

Long story short, the crowd that were all jazzed about TJ leaving, might have just missed the mark my friend, especially considering what the likes of Dnabb has done with this team so far.

Purple Floyd
11-08-2011, 08:51 PM
Yes, getting McNabb was a mistake. Letting Jackson go was not.

singersp
11-09-2011, 06:00 AM
Good question.

I am sure that young Ponder would have made mistakes, starting with the Chargers game that could have cost us games, but the reverse is, he might have learned from those mistakes, to the point that he wouldn't have made the ones he did against the PUKERS.

My guess, atleast 1, possibly 2 more wins.

I'd like to see him get 1 big win without it being because our opponents missed a chip shot FG to give it to us.

Lambeau field would be a good place to start.

Purple Floyd
11-09-2011, 06:54 AM
Then I want to see him moon the crowd from the end zone.

tastywaves
11-09-2011, 11:45 AM
Then I want to see him moon the crowd from the end zone.

Oh yea. One of my favorite Randy moments.