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Purple Floyd
10-30-2011, 04:05 PM
Thoughts?

Purple Floyd
10-30-2011, 04:07 PM
Our secondary just plain sucks. 4th and 14 and we give up what, 40?

OTOH Ponder kept the offense moving for the most part and continued to look good. eterson looked good and even caught screens.

Braddock
10-30-2011, 04:07 PM
Game Ball: Ponder - for his first NFL win and for showing some improvement of accuracy.

Honorable mention: Jared Allen, Adrian

Overall solid game. Carolina came out inspired. Great run defense for most of the game, but no one contains AD all day.

LIVike
10-30-2011, 04:12 PM
Ponder looked better than last week. His accuracy even on the long incompletions they looked more on target. Peterson had a slow start but really got it going late when it mattered. Also we can actually covert third downs, a welcomed change. Harvin being on the field was nice too, the fumble though not so nice.

Jared Allen was great again. 10 straight games with a sack is incredible. Secondary sucked but at times looked somewhat competent. Stopping Newton from running was big.

Overall an exciting game that showed even more promise for Ponder in the future.

kevoncox
10-30-2011, 04:36 PM
Game Ball - Peterson
I know giving it to Ponder seems to be the way to go but you guys failed to realize that Peterson answered the call today. There was talk all week of FINALLY getting him involved in the passing game. He responds with a 5 catch 70+ yard game. That is the missing key to our
offense. If we can get Peterson around 50 yards a game, it will open up everything in the middle of the field as LBs key on him and swarm. He lead our team in receiving and rushing today.

Loved: Using Harvin more in the running game. It seems like he takes it for 7-10 yards every time he gets is and he moves the pile.
Hated: Us not using him again until the 4th quarter. It seems like it was working in the first quarter and we didn't run a fake off of it at all.
QB - B - Played Solid but didn't play amazing. Was under pressure from the defense a lot. Has to learn to throw the ball away
RB - A - Had no alleys, met in the back field on almost every play. Stuck with it and willed us a win
FB - C - Some nice blocks but missed a few
WR -C - As always nothing game changing. Simply doing their jobs. Harvin was a nice plus
TE - B - Big third down catches
OL - D - No alleys, No pocket for most of the game. Eventually got it together.
DL - D - Early pressure and sacks but they got pushed around like the new kid in school for most of the game. Williams where are you?
LB - C - Some nice tackles but all in all, had little impact on the game
CB - D - Asher Allen, quit football now. Start selling insurance.
S - C - Abdullah and Sanford, become partners with Allen.

marshallvike
10-30-2011, 04:38 PM
Our secondary just plain sucks. 4th and 14 and we give up what, 40?

OTOH Ponder kept the offense moving for the most part and continued to look good. eterson looked good and even caught screens.

4th and 14 and we go into the prevent D. 7 guys in coverage and we give up a big play. I don't put that play on the secondary. I put it on the gutless call by Pagac. Our secondary was not impressive all game, I agree, so why the hell didn't we help the Dline at all on that call and put more pressure on Newton.

Reignman
10-30-2011, 04:39 PM
So this is what it feels like when you get a little luck and win a game like this. Lost too many like this so it's about time one goes our way.

12purplepride28
10-30-2011, 04:39 PM
Jared Allen is a monster. Love that guy. AP is sick, so glad to see him get involved in the passing game. Still leaves stuff to be desired in pass blocking.

Ponder is a monster. I will always have faith in him in a clutch situation. The one bad pass he had on 3rd and 14 I believe was throwing away from his body on the run so it's understandable. He played a great game and I'm so relieved to have him as our QB.

Asher Allen sucks balls. Nice angle on Cam Newton douche. I hate our pass D and I hate Chris cook.

AngloVike
10-30-2011, 04:41 PM
Good points for me was seeing Ponder improve and look a little more comfortable as the starter. Had some nice throws and looked more assured in what he was being asked to do. Some of the passes called weren't the smartest IMO but that is more on the play calling than on Ponder.

JA had a good game again and led by example but my one gripe was the secondary play which was awful. Where were our safeties on certain plays such as the TD catch by Smith. That is an area that needs tightening up, we know the secondary is depleted for various reasons, but that is no excuse for poor play.

marshallvike
10-30-2011, 05:07 PM
I have to say, I was completely wrong on playing Ponder this year. By no means is he playing like an all pro QB, But he sure looks better than anything we have had back there in years outside of Farves 1 good year. It is nice to at least have the feeling that something positive can happen in the air, especially on third downs. He looks in control even on the many plays the pocket does not develope. It has only been 2 1/2 games, but there is finally real hope there. I liked TJ, and hoped he would develope, but never felt as good about him as I do about Ponder already.

Jared. 5 tackles, I thought a couple of them were TFL. 1 sack. 1 forced fumble. 1 fumble recovery.
Love that man.
Robison. Where have you gone?
AD and percy. Tough to believe we could lose all those games with those two on our roster.
Cook. You are an a-hole for letting down your teammates like this.
Hate to say it but it might be time to bring in some kickers for a tryout.
Plenty of positives from today. We definately had some luck on our side to get the win. Hope to see some more of this. #1 pick be damned.

marstc09
10-30-2011, 05:20 PM
Our OL is absolute garbage. Probably the worst in the league. This team could be great with a solid line. Ponder was better in the completion % area and no INTs! Still this was Peterson show again.

Our Secondary is ugly. We had tons of pressure for the 2nd week in a row and they still sucked. *snicker*

That really is all that needs to be said.

Braddock
10-30-2011, 06:12 PM
I have to say, I was completely wrong on playing Ponder this year. By no means is he playing like an all pro QB, But he sure looks better than anything we have had back there in years outside of Farves 1 good year. It is nice to at least have the feeling that something positive can happen in the air, especially on third downs. He looks in control even on the many plays the pocket does not develope. It has only been 2 1/2 games, but there is finally real hope there. I liked TJ, and hoped he would develope, but never felt as good about him as I do about Ponder already.

Jared. 5 tackles, I thought a couple of them were TFL. 1 sack. 1 forced fumble. 1 fumble recovery.
Love that man.
Robison. Where have you gone?
AD and percy. Tough to believe we could lose all those games with those two on our roster.
Cook. You are an a-hole for letting down your teammates like this.
Hate to say it but it might be time to bring in some kickers for a tryout.
Plenty of positives from today. We definately had some luck on our side to get the win. Hope to see some more of this. #1 pick be damned.

Why? He missed one from 41 yds on the same side of the field that the Carolina kicker missed from. My guess is the wind is tricky in an outdoor stadium in Carolina... No reason to try out kickers. None.

Braddock
10-30-2011, 06:15 PM
Our OL is absolute garbage. Probably the worst in the league. This team could be great with a solid line. Ponder was better in the completion % area and no INTs! Still this was Peterson show again.

Our Secondary is ugly. We had tons of pressure for the 2nd week in a row and they still sucked. *snicker*

That really is all that needs to be said.

The few times a pocket did develop, and Ponder can stand comfortably, I believe he made every throw and I would be willing to guess his average yd/throw ~ 15. Our draft should be secondary and Oline. Completely. We have enough to be average or above in every other position (We'll pick up LB depth throw FA and waivers)

skum
10-30-2011, 06:21 PM
Can you really blame Asher Allen, he was in there against Steve Smith and is usually a dime-back..

Good win.. The small things are starting to go our way..

Just keep playing until the end and go for that 10-6 season, we can play with everyone because we can rush the passer and that will keep most games close..

The team is rallying around Ponder and its great to see, Adrian is carrying the team right now and with Ponder running the offense it seems he has come to life.. McNabbs comments should be enough to get him off the team..

jargomcfargo
10-30-2011, 06:21 PM
Field goal kicker saves an inept defense by missing, to give Ponder his first win.

I'm happy the Vikings won, but they are a team that has a long ways to go.

The offense is improving despite needing help on the line. But the defense is in decline and will become this teams greatest weakness.

How to game plan against the Vikings defense? Look for 21 and throw the ball there.

Also a little concerned about Musgrave running against run defenses and passing against pass defenses. Despite what the TV announcers said, they did bring 8 men into the box quite a bit.

Purple Floyd
10-30-2011, 06:34 PM
We are now at the halfway point in the season and a few trends are developing and they are much like they have been most of the past 7 years or so.

On offense we need to improve the OL and give Ponder a pocket to operate in on a consistent basis. We still need to upgrade the quality of the WR position. Although I will admit with ponder in there they are looking better than they had been so far this season. Get better WR's and ponders numbers will look respectable.

On defense we just plain need to upgrade the secondary and the LB group. It was bad enough when the C2 was all about giving up passes but making tackles but now it is all about giving up a big cushion and taking bad angles after the pass so the offense can get extra yards.

As long as the team fails to upgrade the talent in those groups we are never going to go anywhere even with the premier talent we have at some positions.

Purple Floyd
10-30-2011, 06:35 PM
The few times a pocket did develop, and Ponder can stand comfortably, I believe he made every throw and I would be willing to guess his average yd/throw ~ 15. Our draft should be secondary and Oline. Completely. We have enough to be average or above in every other position (We'll pick up LB depth throw FA and waivers)

Amen.

marshallvike
10-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Why? He missed one from 41 yds on the same side of the field that the Carolina kicker missed from. My guess is the wind is tricky in an outdoor stadium in Carolina... No reason to try out kickers. None.

I think he has missed three so far this year. Couple that with the two line drive kicks today that bounced well before the goal line and he is not looking like
longwell of old.

rednorsk
10-30-2011, 08:06 PM
I'm amazed Ponder is still alive, the o-line really is bad news.

MulletMullitia
10-30-2011, 08:11 PM
Very happy and relieved. Game ball - Olindo Mare.... just kidding :) lol

Could Ponder be any more poised back there? Oh my god. People are all over Andy Dalton's nuts right now, but his supporting cast is the reason for his success. I would take Christian over any of the other rookie quarterbacks with the exception of Cam Newton (who killed us today). Blaine Gabbert and Andy Dalton are very boring / vanillia. Their ceiling isn't very high. It's the opposite with Ponder. He is smart, athletic, poised, etc... His ceiling is unlimited. Our secondary is dead without Winfield and Cook. We are VERY lucky that this is one of the deepest CB drafts in a long time. We can find a very serviceable guy in the 2nd round. The OL is pathetic. It depends on draft position if we take a WR or OL. I would be happy either way. As long as we don't pass on a guy like Blackmon.

battleaxe4cheese
10-30-2011, 08:39 PM
Ponder did what we were hoping to see and that was steady improvement/poise. I'm surprised he did as well as he did with the garbage play on the line. To be fair the line seems to play well for a series or two and then completely loses their minds. I can't figure them out.

Our secondary is horrid and is only going to get worse unless we get some fresh talent back there....em, talent that doesn't like to strangle women. Griffen is getting torched a lot, but still makes some plays and plays with heart. Asher is the worst coverage guy ever and his buddy Abdullah is mediocre at best. I have said this before, but Leslie is a former DB and or secondary looks like they are coached by Barney Fife. Some of the angles these guys take and mental mistakes are atrocious.

Erin Henderson had a pretty good game and showed improvement. His brother and Greenway both looked slow and out of place as usual. Greenway is looking very bad to me and I watched his play closely this week. I don't know what's going on with him, but he's playing shitty football for a 40 million dollar paycheck. More to follow...bacon and eggs for supper...yum.

Caine
10-30-2011, 10:54 PM
Honestly, I didn't see any "improvement" out of Ponder. He looked like he did last week...maybe a bit worse.

O-line, once again, let everyone through...but Ponder tucked-and-ran way too early a few times.

One thing I also noticed is that Ponder can't hit a receiver in stride on a deep route to save his life. This week and last he's way over them or way behind them (usually over them). The crossing routes he's fine on - even the deep crossing routes. But the Go routes he's crap on.

Defense almost gave it away. Bad kick by Carolina saved them, but they had blown it to that point...seems to be a common them with them of late. Part of it is our depleted (crappy) secondary...but part of it is the front 7 simply not making smart plays late i the game.

But we won...which I'm glad about. It wasn't pretty, but it counts. Hopefully the guys can start putting a few of these loose ends to bed over the BYE, and come back stronger.

Caine

MulletMullitia
10-30-2011, 11:13 PM
Honestly, I didn't see any "improvement" out of Ponder. He looked like he did last week...maybe a bit worse.

O-line, once again, let everyone through...but Ponder tucked-and-ran way too early a few times.

One thing I also noticed is that Ponder can't hit a receiver in stride on a deep route to save his life. This week and last he's way over them or way behind them (usually over them). The crossing routes he's fine on - even the deep crossing routes. But the Go routes he's crap on.

Defense almost gave it away. Bad kick by Carolina saved them, but they had blown it to that point...seems to be a common them with them of late. Part of it is our depleted (crappy) secondary...but part of it is the front 7 simply not making smart plays late i the game.

But we won...which I'm glad about. It wasn't pretty, but it counts. Hopefully the guys can start putting a few of these loose ends to bed over the BYE, and come back stronger.

Caine

He looked WORSE!? With no improvement!? What in the hell were you watching? What do you have against this kid? Are you a Florida Gator fan or something? It honestly makes no sense. Look at the comparisons.

Completion percentage:

Last week: 40.6
This week: 64.3
Difference: + 23.7

QB Rating:

Last week: 59.2
This week: 102.7
Difference: +43.5

Not to mention that he didn't throw a single interception. He led a 1 win football team to it's 2nd win in only his 2nd start. That is pretty damn impressive given this embarrassing supporting cast. I can't say that I'm surprised though. You always have something negative to say. Even after a win. This time, it's about the ONLY bright spot on our team right now. I don't know if it's personal or what, but your negative comments about him make no sense. He improved in every facet of the game. As far as the tuck and run comment, he only ran for 4 yards today. He's "crappy" on the Go routes because we don't have a receiver that is capable of running one. Our receiving corps are a joke. If you want to bitch about something, try them. Don't bitch about the ONE tiny sliver of hope that this franchise has right now.

MulletMullitia

Purple Floyd
10-30-2011, 11:29 PM
He looked WORSE!? With no improvement!? What in the hell were you watching? What do you have against this kid? Are you a Florida Gator fan or something? It honestly makes no sense. Look at the comparisons.

Completion percentage:

Last week: 40.6
This week: 64.3
Difference: + 23.7

QB Rating:

Last week: 59.2
This week: 102.7
Difference: +43.5

Not to mention that he didn't throw a single interception. He led a 1 win football team to it's 2nd win in only his 2nd start. That is pretty damn impressive given this embarrassing supporting cast. I can't say that I'm surprised though. You always have something negative to say. Even after a win. This time, it's about the ONLY bright spot on our team right now. I don't know if it's personal or what, but your negative comments about him make no sense. He improved in every facet of the game. As far as the tuck and run comment, he only ran for 4 yards today. He's "crappy" on the Go routes because we don't have a receiver that is capable of running one. Our receiving corps are a joke. If you want to bitch about something, try them. Don't bitch about the ONE tiny sliver of hope that this franchise has right now.

MulletMullitia

Hey- It's time to trade that avatar for a Ponder one instead.:irked:

VikesFan787
10-30-2011, 11:34 PM
Don't understand the negativity towards Ponder. Some people are just assholes.

Freakout
10-30-2011, 11:36 PM
I thought Ponder looked good. 18 for 28 is better than the 40% completion last week and I really only saw one dangerous throw. I thought Carolina did a better job than Green Bay by putting pressure on him with faster guys.

Peterson finally getting involved in the passing game was a pleasure to see. He is so much more deadly in space. Gerhart even had great production in his limited carries.

Lumping the TE/WR together I was happy with the production. Yeah I would love a true deep threat receiver (Aromashodu is not it) but the unit doesn't look as bad with Ponder throwing to them.

Offensively that is the balance I want to see.

Our secondary is awful. I place the blame on management for sticking with this group. Griffin, like Berrian, was a risk sticking with him and it hasn't worked. Yeah no one would have predicted Chris Cook would channel OJ Simpson. Winny has been injured off and on for the last 3 years. We saw how bad Asher Allen was last year as well as our safeties (not a single one would start on another team).

Erin Henderson is winning me over but that excitement is quickly soured by watching EJ and Chad.

The Dline again I saw too much push right up the gut. This team needs to draft or sign a real NT in the summer. Adoyele just is not doing anything useful.

Jared Allen is a sack machine.

missvikes
10-30-2011, 11:47 PM
Game ball=#69!!

i_bleed_purple
10-31-2011, 12:43 AM
IBP's grades:

QB: B. Played fairly well. but I'm not grading on a curve, I base Ponder grades the same I would Manning or Brady. decent, but not spectacular. He moved the chains, was accurate on most throws, and escaped pressure well to minimize sack yards. Very solid, love what I'm seeing from a kid on his second career start.

RB: A Peterson is a beast as usual, showed he can be a factor in the pass game, and was actually quite good at blocking as well. Running, well he was bottled up early on, but you can't keep him down forever.

TE: A I think Ponder to Shank/Rudolph is going to be a nice connection this season. Seemed every time we needed a critical completion Shank was on the receiving end of that. Not an outstanding performance, but we didn't need that. Came through when it matters and that's what's important

WR: C+ Again, shows taht outside of Harvin, and occasionally Jenkins, we are screwed at WR. miscommunication on routes, not getting open, things need to improve.

OL: B I actually thought they played alright. However, having Ponder with those wheels helps, but there were a numbe rof times he was given very nice time to throw, something McNabb never got.

DL: A beastly as usual. If only our secondary could cover and Newton wasn't a fast mofo, that would be a six sack game.

LB: B- ok, not great, but ok. Nice sack/fumble by EJ, decent run coverage, and tolerable pass coverage

CB: C Fuck we suck
S: D+ See CB, then increase suck by 2. Abdullah flat out sucks this year, don't know what's going on, but he is sucking. Can't cover, not great at tackling, gets blocked out of plays more often than you'd like to see.

K: C+ Not sure what's getting into Longwell, missing more than I'd like to see lately, had one REALLY nice kickoff, but a couple crappy ones as well.

P: A Again, dynamite. some big punts with big hangtime, good accuracy,

Other ST: B+ Good coverage mostly, good returns. NOt sure why they had Sherels returning opening kickoff, Harvin would have made that a house call easilly. Still, can't knock him, not everyone is that dynamic, great return, unfortunately we couldn't cash in. Don't like Sherel's nonchalantness when it comes to fair catches, there were a few he needs to wave that arm for.


Coaching:
OC: A- Actually liked the playcalling. Musgrave is greatly improving from the first few weeks. Love seeing AP in the passing game, getting Ponder out on rollouts, using players to their strenghts and taking advantage of mismatches.

DC: C+ Credit for calling a good pass rushing game, offset by the complete lack of discipline and coverage ability by the back 7.

HC: D either whoever tells Fraizer to challenge or not needs to be fired, or Fraizer needs to let go of his control. Those were some brutal challenges. And accepting the penalty on 4th down at the 35 to repeat 3rd was idiotic. Luckily it worked, but I would not put my faith in that defense holding the Panthers again. Take the chances with a long field goal, if they miss (decent chance) we get good field position. If they make it, then whatever, 3 points.

i_bleed_purple
10-31-2011, 12:45 AM
One thing I also noticed is that Ponder can't hit a receiver in stride on a deep route to save his life.

Chant with me


NOODLE! NOODLE! NOODLE! NOODLE!

MulletMullitia
10-31-2011, 01:09 AM
Hey- It's time to trade that avatar for a Ponder one instead.:irked:

Done sir. But since I was 25 posts shy with the other one, I'll leave the sig up through the offseason. You were right about McNabb, and you were even more right about Ponder. I'm a believer now. We have our franchise quarterback and I will have his back no matter what. Especially with our own fans that feel the need to be pessimistic about every god damned thing concerning the franchise. Even Peyton Manning makes bad throws. It kills me that people are critiquing his every move already. He is a rookie. With no supporting cast. With no receivers. With no offensive line. And he is POISED. You can't coach poise. You can't coach intelligence. You can't coach natural athleticism. He has an extremely high ceiling. That's all I care about right now. The potential to be great. But god forbid he can't throw a go route to Devin Aromasha-CantCatch-Ado!

Traveling_Vike
10-31-2011, 01:57 AM
I am very pleased to have the win, but I don't feel that we truly earned it. On the other hand, we didn't earn a loss, either, which we have done all to often lately.

Some things I noticed in today's action:

1) Berger seems to be settling in better at Center. Not nearly as many bad snaps this week, although he did put a couple on the turf, which Ponder handled very well.

2) Before the final series, the Vikings Defense held Carolina to three consecutive 3-and-outs. They may have looked bad at times, but when is the last time we could say that? Unfortunately we could not capitalize much on those stops, but at least it kept the Panthers off the scoreboard and gave us the time we needed.

3) We actually scored in all four quarters. This is an extremely positive sign, IMO. Maybe the guys are finally settling down and playing sixty minutes.

4) The Harvin "fumble", IMO, wasn't. No one on the field said anything about dual possession, and from every angle I saw, Percy's knee was down with a guy on top of him before that ball came loose. He was in the process of being stripped, but still had his hand solidly around that ball. IF the officials had cited dual possession, I might think otherwise, but they did not. Therefore, Percy was down by contact. I believe that if the call had been made the other way, it would have stood up to review as well.

5) There is a decided lack of concentration and discipline, once again. This is squarely on the coaching staff. I am beginning to suspect that the schemes may be too complicated, and are confusing guys on both sides of the ball. When you WRs, LBs. and secondary are all showing signs of confusion, missing assignments and handoffs, and being caught out of position this much, something is wrong beyond just poor play.

6) I am very happy that the Patriots, Cowboys and Saints lost, and disappointed that the Ravens and Giants did not.

7) It is starting to look like we caught the Chiefs at exactly the wrong time, just as they were about to catch fire. If they beat the Chargers, I am back on that bandwagon. Amazing, really, given who they have lost for the season already.

8a) (Can't use just 8 or it will come out as a smiley) The Colts really do suck.

8b) So do the Dolphins.

8c) ...and the Seahawks.

9) Back to the Vikings... for a change, we did not collapse totally when bad things started to happen. This is a good thing. If we believe we can bounce back, then we can. And will.


All in all, we are still getting better by baby steps each week. Now let's use this bye week to really work on discipline and focus. That is the major element still missing that could put us back in the swing.

i_bleed_purple
10-31-2011, 03:28 AM
I am very pleased to have the win, but I don't feel that we truly earned it. On the other hand, we didn't earn a loss, either, which we have done all to often lately.

Some things I noticed in today's action:

1) Berger seems to be settling in better at Center. Not nearly as many bad snaps this week, although he did put a couple on the turf, which Ponder handled very well.
As much as I love to pick on Sully, Berger played Herrerra's spot, not C. Sully started at C


2) Before the final series, the Vikings Defense held Carolina to three consecutive 3-and-outs. They may have looked bad at times, but when is the last time we could say that? Unfortunately we could not capitalize much on those stops, but at least it kept the Panthers off the scoreboard and gave us the time we needed.

3) We actually scored in all four quarters. This is an extremely positive sign, IMO. Maybe the guys are finally settling down and playing sixty minutes.

4) The Harvin "fumble", IMO, wasn't. No one on the field said anything about dual possession, and from every angle I saw, Percy's knee was down with a guy on top of him before that ball came loose. He was in the process of being stripped, but still had his hand solidly around that ball. IF the officials had cited dual possession, I might think otherwise, but they did not. Therefore, Percy was down by contact. I believe that if the call had been made the other way, it would have stood up to review as well.
I've gotta disagree, The ball was out, possession is lost as soon as there's movement not controlled by the player. Harvin had a hand on the ball, yeah, but the defender had clear posession of the ball. It was a strip, Harvin was not down, and whoever it was took it clear away from him. Price you pay when you play hard physical, grind out extra inches football like AP and Harvin do.


5) There is a decided lack of concentration and discipline, once again. This is squarely on the coaching staff. I am beginning to suspect that the schemes may be too complicated, and are confusing guys on both sides of the ball. When you WRs, LBs. and secondary are all showing signs of confusion, missing assignments and handoffs, and being caught out of position this much, something is wrong beyond just poor play.
Agreed. No excuses for trying to hand off on the wrong side. Once, yeah, it happens, but two consecutive plays? That's gotta be fixed. Add on the fact we saw miscommunication between WR/Ponder, LB's breaking down in coverage, DB's confused in zones, yeah, something needs to change. On the other side, I think alot has to do with the lockout, no offseason and no real time to learn the new scheme, get used to the new coordinators calls, audiables, etc. Alot of teams are having this issue, it's not just us.


6) I am very happy that the Patriots, Cowboys and Saints lost, and disappointed that the Ravens and Giants did not.

7) It is starting to look like we caught the Chiefs at exactly the wrong time, just as they were about to catch fire. If they beat the Chargers, I am back on that bandwagon. Amazing, really, given who they have lost for the season already.

8a) (Can't use just 8 or it will come out as a smiley) The Colts really do suck.

8b) So do the Dolphins.

8c) ...and the Seahawks.
Did you see the replay of the last bit of the first half of the seahawks game? Thank god that isn't us.....


9) Back to the Vikings... for a change, we did not collapse totally when bad things started to happen. This is a good thing. If we believe we can bounce back, then we can. And will.


All in all, we are still getting better by baby steps each week. Now let's use this bye week to really work on discipline and focus. That is the major element still missing that could put us back in the swing.

I wish, but with the new CBA, Bye week actually means time off. They don't use the week to prepare as a team, they go home, get drunk and get in trouble. Stupidest thing yet.

Johnson14
10-31-2011, 07:01 AM
My 2cents worth...

"Likes"...
*the use of Shianc more
*the fact when we go to Jenkins he is clutch and makes the catch
*Percy proving again that he is one tough SOB
*the win (duh!)

Dislikes....
*Asher Allen, seriously, how does this guy even get a game for us?!.. bust.
*the secondary, was pretty horrible again yesterday, Abdulla got beaten like a drum for the easy Olsen TD
*Ponder's happy feet, hang in the pocket, step up and hit the receiver.
*another Longwell missed FG
*"Childress-esque" bonehead challenges from Frazier

Win is a win, happy with it.. :)

Caine
10-31-2011, 07:16 AM
He looked WORSE!? With no improvement!? What in the hell were you watching? What do you have against this kid? Are you a Florida Gator fan or something? It honestly makes no sense. Look at the comparisons.

Completion percentage:

Last week: 40.6
This week: 64.3
Difference: + 23.7

QB Rating:

Last week: 59.2
This week: 102.7
Difference: +43.5

Not to mention that he didn't throw a single interception. He led a 1 win football team to it's 2nd win in only his 2nd start. That is pretty damn impressive given this embarrassing supporting cast. I can't say that I'm surprised though. You always have something negative to say. Even after a win. This time, it's about the ONLY bright spot on our team right now. I don't know if it's personal or what, but your negative comments about him make no sense. He improved in every facet of the game. As far as the tuck and run comment, he only ran for 4 yards today. He's "crappy" on the Go routes because we don't have a receiver that is capable of running one. Our receiving corps are a joke. If you want to bitch about something, try them. Don't bitch about the ONE tiny sliver of hope that this franchise has right now.

MulletMullitia

As usual, you mistake a constructive criticism for "bitching"...but then your personal axe probably needed some grinding anyway.

Ponder ran for 4 yards...in 4 attemtps...but also had 4 sacks...3 of which (IIRC) were while he was running towards the Line of scrimmage.

Point is, even the commentators (Moose and Goose - not my favorites, but whatever) pointed out the same thing. Ponder didn't extend the play with his legs on those occassions - something we see Vet guys do - he tucked and ran (Something we see Rookies do a lot).

Yes, the O-line sucked...but he had OPPORTUNITIES on several of those plays that a VET would have seen.

His deep GO routes - thrown to Shiancoe and Aromashodu - weren't where they needed to be, and weren't the Receivers fault. It's a simple TIMING issue which will HOPEFULLY resolve itself, but as of RIGHT NOW remains an area of concern. I have yet to see Ponder connect on a GO route of any kind. Maybe I missed one, or maybe he hasn't hit one. I'm hopeful that he will correct that.

Peterson and Gerhardt were tough as hell, breaking Carolina's choke hold on our offense. Peterson as our leading receiver is a suprise...shows he's elevating his personal game - something the rest of the NFL won't like. Harvin was irreplaceable - his injury issues are a concern, and I hope he can stay healthy - but he was solid today.

So, as I previously stated, I'm not ready to anoint anyone to anything after only TWO games. Doesn't make it hate, doesn't make it bitching...it makes it what it is - me watching a rookie, seeing rookie mistakes, and waiting to see how he corrects them.

Remember Jackson? Remember all the "potential" we heard about each week? Remember all the bright spots in his play that some tried to claim were him establishing himself? Didn't materialize. I didn't hate Jackson...I simply didn't see ON THE FIELD what I needed to see to feel that he was a valid starter.

Ponder has played two games. He has looked pretty good so far, but he has had some silly rookie mistakes. And in my initial post I pointed to a couple of rookie holes that need to be addressed. Sorry I didn't write a 30 page paper outlining all of the positives I saw as well in order to satisfy your personal need for rainbows, puppy's, and lollipops, but I touched on a couple of issues that bothered me after an UGLY win.

I'm sorry that you construe that as gloom and doom. I invite you to select the "Ignore" option so that you no longer have to read my posts. See, I plan to do what I've alsways done - write about what I see...good or bad...as I see it. The fact taht it doesn't suit your personal desires doesn't mean much to me. In fact, there are 5 opinions in this world I give a shit about...and you're not on that list.

Caine

Caine
10-31-2011, 07:19 AM
My 2cents worth...

"Likes"...
*the use of Shianc more
*the fact when we go to Jenkins he is clutch and makes the catch
*Percy proving again that he is one tough SOB
*the win (duh!)

Dislikes....
*Asher Allen, seriously, how does this guy even get a game for us?!.. bust.
*the secondary, was pretty horrible again yesterday, Abdulla got beaten like a drum for the easy Olsen TD
*Ponder's happy feet, hang in the pocket, step up and hit the receiver.
*another Longwell missed FG
*"Childress-esque" bonehead challenges from Frazier

Win is a win, happy with it.. :)

Careful criticizing Ponder. MulletMilitia will start labeling you a doom-n-gloomer and start ranting about you...

Just saying...

Caine

singersp
10-31-2011, 08:20 AM
IBP's grades:
RB: A Peterson is a beast as usual, showed he can be a factor in the pass game, and was actually quite good at blocking as well. Running, well he was bottled up early on, but you can't keep him down forever.

I would think a "BEAST" would have more than 14 rushing yards on 8 carries at the half.

Yes, he had two nice catches as a receiver, but as a rusher in the first half he sucked. I expected more in the first half from a RB who most people here call "the best running back in the league".

singersp
10-31-2011, 08:32 AM
One thing I also noticed is that Ponder can't hit a receiver in stride on a deep route to save his life. This week and last he's way over them or way behind them (usually over them). The crossing routes he's fine on - even the deep crossing routes. But the Go routes he's crap on.

And that's a flaw that some analysts brought up about Ponder during the draft & one I was concerned with after we took him. He did hit Jenkins last week on that deep one, but Jenkins had to hesitate in order to catch it. Several other ones were off target.

Will that improve? Hard to say, but for right now he doesn't have that touch to do it & it's one thing we need him to be able to do.

singersp
10-31-2011, 08:43 AM
7) It is starting to look like we caught the Chiefs at exactly the wrong time, just as they were about to catch fire. If they beat the Chargers, I am back on that bandwagon. Amazing, really, given who they have lost for the season already.

So you'll be hopping on the KC bandwagon if they win tonight??

singersp
10-31-2011, 08:53 AM
....I plan to do what I've always done - write about what I see...good or bad...as I see it. The fact that it doesn't suit your personal desires doesn't mean much to me.

Caine

+1

That's the way I roll whether I'm in the minority or the majority.

On a side note, it's amazing that what used to be mediocre or OK play is now highly touted.

Johnson14
10-31-2011, 08:55 AM
And that's a flaw that some analysts brought up about Ponder during the draft & one I was concerned with after we took him. He did hit Jenkins last week on that deep one, but Jenkins had to hesitate in order to catch it. Several other ones were off target.

Will that improve? Hard to say, but for right now he doesn't have that touch to do it & it's one thing we need him to be able to do.

+1

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 09:03 AM
I see we have the same ole posters posting the same ole drivel....Ol Sucks, DB's suck, DL is great......LOL.

Couple of thoughts.....

A. TOP first half......Panthers. 18:35 to Vikes 11:25. TOP Second half.......Vikes 16:30 to Panthers13:30.

In the second half, it appears our defensive coaching staff popped their heads out of their asses and decided that it was pretty stupid to keep blitzing with blitz packages that a 3rd grader could see coming.

Probably explains how the Vikings defense held the second ranked offens in yards per play from scrimmage (8.8) and was fifth in total offense, averaging 417 yards per game to just 173 yards and seven points in the second half.

B. Anyone notice, on the last drive who not only sacked the QB, but also had the key pass breakup in the secondary? Hussain. Judging by all of your posts, a peice of shit S.

C. Ponder. I also see a couple of you are still questioning young Ponder. LOL, same two who said TJ wouldn't ever work out to be a NFL QB. Judging by what he did in a little over a half of game yesterday, not sure why any of you would believe any of the drivel those two spew forth on here.

By the way Caine and EJmat, I'm almost ready for my beer.

Comeon people......

The OL played fine with a backup at RG. Yet again, our OL isn't as bad as most of you think.

Our DB's played fine when they weren't being hung out to dry by the D-coord play calling and lack of pressure by our DL. By the way, all of you who say our DB's aren't cover guy, guess what, your right. But then again, C2 CB's aren't cover guys now are they. In the end, our DB's had 2 gaffs were the S's got caught cheating up and biting on the short route. Take a chill pill people, all DB's do it especially when your competing against a guy like Cam.

And for those of you still spewing forth the drivel that our QB can't throw a deep ball after 2 games, guess what, he doesn't have anyone to throw it to. I really had to laugh when I saw a couple of beyyyyatches that he was off on his "Deep Throws" to a fricken TE. Think about it people, who throws deep throws to TE's. Teams that just fired their only deep threat and are still paying him.

You guys/gals want to beyyatch about something that is really wrong with this team, start beeeeeyatching about:

a. Our kicker.
b. Defensive Play Calling.
c. Offensive play calling. Seriously, they didn't have to stack the box (even though they did) cause our O-coord keeps bringing everyone into the box with his player sets for cripes sake.
d. Challenges. Were is the crowd that was asking for the Chillers head over some questionable thrown red flags. Those two yesterday were competely asinine.
e. DT's who can't collapse a pocket.

Those are real issues.

In the end, we won the game. A game by the way, that could almost be called a "Shootout" with a rookie QB, a patched together OL and secondary, against a pretty potent offense and defense, and you guys/gals beeeeeyatch.

Brother.

12purplepride28
10-31-2011, 09:07 AM
In fact, there are 5 opinions in this world I give a shit about...and you're not on that list.

Caine

Wanna help me finish it?

1) Marrdro
2) ?
3) ?
4) ?
5) ?

12purplepride28
10-31-2011, 09:12 AM
Not sure where you're getting the TOP Marrdro but it's wrong.

Time of Possession 32:05 Time of Possession 27:55
Vikings Panthers

According to nfl.com

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 09:13 AM
Wanna help me finish it?

1) Marrdro
2) ?
3) ?
4) ?
5) ?
LOL, well played my friend. After ole TJ came in (hurt) this weekend and moved the team after Charlie couldn't for the last couple of weeks, I think ole Cain and EJ should just about be ready to buy me beers don't ya think?

12purplepride28
10-31-2011, 09:13 AM
By the way Caine and EJmat, I'm almost ready for my beer.


Seems to me you already started drinking...

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 09:16 AM
Not sure where you're getting the TOP Marrdro but it's wrong.

Time of Possession 32:05 Time of Possession 27:55
Vikings Panthers

According to nfl.com
My game notes. By the by, if you look closer you will see that I have the following:

Vikes First 11:25, Second 16:30 = 27:55
Panthers First 18:35, Second 13:30 = 32:05.

If I'm not mistaken thats what your source has as well. (Winking Emoticon).

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 09:27 AM
Christian Ponder: The rookie built on a promising first start against the Packers with his play on Sunday. Heís not scrambling as much as I thought he would. But he looks much more composed than I could have hoped for and he has shown a knack for converting on third downs Ė something his predecessor Donovan McNabb could not do.

His accuracy on deep throws needs to improve, but an 18 for 28 and 236 passing yards stat line is solid for a guyís second NFL start. And itís what Ponder didnít do in this game that I liked as much as what he did do. He didnít take silly sacks. He didnít bounce passes in front of open receivers. He didnít turn the ball over trying to make something out of nothing. He didnít look flustered or frustrated once during a first half when the Vikings offence couldnít get much going. The Vikings look like they have something to build on here. Iím probably getting way ahead of myself, but I see a promising future for this team again with Ponder behind center.




Husain Abdullah: I donít mind Abdullah as a player, but heís had a couple of tough weeks in pass coverage. And when Carolina tight end Greg Olsen beat him easily for a 39-yard touchdown to give the Panthers a 14-7 lead in the second quarter, I thought the rout might be on. But the Vikings stuck with it and so did Abdullah. With the Vikings defence needing someone to make a play on the final drive, Abdullah did that. His sack of Cam Newton should have sealed the win. Yet when the Panthers managed to get down to the Vikes 14-yard line on the same drive, Abdullah broke up what would have probably been a game-winning touchdown catch to Olsen. Two plays later, Mare missed the tying field goal. Give Abdullah credit for staying with it and not losing his confidence.

Grant's Tomb: Vikings, Ponder, show some toughness as Vikings get first road win of 2011 (http://grants-tomb.blogspot.com/2011/10/vikings-ponder-show-some-toughness-as.html)

I kindof like this guy. I think he and I see/watch games in much the same manner.

singersp
10-31-2011, 09:31 AM
You guys/gals want to beyyatch about something that is really wrong with this team, start beeeeeyatching about:

a. Our kicker.

That missed FG by Longwell cost us 3 points but led to 7 points just 3 plays later.

That 4 differential put us in a spot to win the game! Woo Hoo!

Thanx Longwell! :p

singersp
10-31-2011, 09:35 AM
[QUOTE=Marrdro;1114404]My game notes. By the by, if you look closer you will see that I have the following:

Vikes First 11:25, Second 16:30 = 27:55
Panthers First 18:35, Second 13:30 = 32:05.

?? Why do you take the time to keep notes on time of possession when that stat is so easily available?

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 09:45 AM
?? Why do you take the time to keep notes on time of possession when that stat is so easily available?
Because I'm a dork. ....snicker.....

Seriously, haven't you ever done it for a Baseball game? I don't know why football fans think this is odd.

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 09:50 AM
That missed FG by Longwell cost us 3 points but led to 7 points just 3 plays later.

That 4 differential put us in a spot to win the game! Woo Hoo!

Thanx Longwell! :p
LOL, you crack me up.

On one hand you'll hack on he OL, WR's, QB and DB's for making mistakes but you ignore Ole Shortwell.

Seriously, you could almost say that the TD Hussain gave up didn't really matter cause he almost singlehandedly prevented the Panthers from scoring on the last drive.

Nope, Shortwell is missing FG's. He has to squib kick it on kickoffs. In short, he is a liability that needs to go.

I for one sure hope that we don't get into a fix late in the year were we might just have a shot at still having a winning record and possibly even making the playoffs and it comes down to a FG my friend.

Think about it, we beat GB after the bye week and our schedule is pretty conduscive to getting into that kindof a predicament, especially considering how a few other "Playoff" teams are playing right now.

12purplepride28
10-31-2011, 10:53 AM
My game notes. By the by, if you look closer you will see that I have the following:

Vikes First 11:25, Second 16:30 = 27:55
Panthers First 18:35, Second 13:30 = 32:05.

If I'm not mistaken thats what your source has as well. (Winking Emoticon).

Yes, those numbers are right. But nfl.com has the Vikings with 32:05 and the Panthers with 27:55

:hump:

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 11:40 AM
Yes, those numbers are right. But nfl.com has the Vikings with 32:05 and the Panthers with 27:55

:hump:
And you wonder why Singer wonders why I keep my own stats instead of looking to the "pro's" for answers.

On a side note, I made a mistake once. I thought I had made a mistake, but it turns out I didn't and I was right from the beginning.......snicker......

Just kidding. Couldn't resist that attempt at a joke.

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 11:54 AM
With McNabb at quarterback in the fourth quarter, the Vikings were 4 of 15 on third down, with McNabb responsible for two of the conversions. With Ponder, they are 10 of 16 on third down, with Ponder responsible for nine of the conversions.

Also of note: Five of McNabb's 8 incompletions on third down in the fourth quarter were intended for now-former Vikings receiver Bernard Berrian.

Key third downs biggest difference between Ponder, McNabb | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/132920343.html)

I wonder how well the kid and Berrian would have worked together. My guess, alot better than the last two we had throwing to him.

marshallvike
10-31-2011, 11:56 AM
And you wonder why Singer wonders why I keep my own stats instead of looking to the "pro's" for answers.

On a side note, I made a mistake once. I thought I had made a mistake, but it turns out I didn't and I was right from the beginning.......snicker......

Just kidding. Couldn't resist that attempt at a joke.

Almost as funny as a couple of Ryan's kickoffs yesterday.:)

Marrdro
10-31-2011, 12:31 PM
Almost as funny as a couple of Ryan's kickoffs yesterday.:)
LOL, well played but your not gonna get me going.

I already had to apologize to my good friend BBQ for my drunken "Anti" Shortwell posts. Not gonna go down there again.

marshallvike
10-31-2011, 12:50 PM
LOL, well played but your not gonna get me going.

I already had to apologize to my good friend BBQ for my drunken "Anti" Shortwell posts. Not gonna go down there again.

Well, I can accept short high kickoffs. Or line drive kickoffs in the back of the end zone. I have a problem with two line drive kickoffs bouncing well short of the end zone. Especially when they are coupled with a missed field goal.
I have always enjoyed Longwell on our team,(and disagreed with your stance BTW), but yesterday had me turning the corner. I think he has now missed three FGs this year. Always looked at him as money in the bank.

Traveling_Vike
10-31-2011, 02:26 PM
As much as I love to pick on Sully, Berger played Herrerra's spot, not C. Sully started at C

My bad on that one. Feed was kinda blurry and it was hard to read the numbers. But that does explain a lot, since Sully is not usually known for bad snaps.


I've gotta disagree, The ball was out, possession is lost as soon as there's movement not controlled by the player. Harvin had a hand on the ball, yeah, but the defender had clear posession of the ball. It was a strip, Harvin was not down, and whoever it was took it clear away from him. Price you pay when you play hard physical, grind out extra inches football like AP and Harvin do.

Yeah, it's gonna happen now and then. My big beef, though, is not with the call itself, but the lack of proper justification for it. If they don't cite dual possession (which they didn't) then he should have been down by contact. He still had firm control as far as I could see. But we don't need to make a big deal over it, it happened and it can't be changed now.


Agreed. No excuses for trying to hand off on the wrong side. Once, yeah, it happens, but two consecutive plays? That's gotta be fixed. Add on the fact we saw miscommunication between WR/Ponder, LB's breaking down in coverage, DB's confused in zones, yeah, something needs to change. On the other side, I think alot has to do with the lockout, no offseason and no real time to learn the new scheme, get used to the new coordinators calls, audiables, etc. Alot of teams are having this issue, it's not just us.

True, it is not just us, but we seem to be getting it worse than most. I suspect that is mostly due to the changeover in coaching staff, with no time to prepare in the off-season due to the lockout, as you say. Still, after eight weeks, you'd think the guys would have learned to compare notes.


Did you see the replay of the last bit of the first half of the seahawks game? Thank god that isn't us.....

Didn't see the game, but saw some of the "lowlights" afterward. We have our problems, but they are just plain BAD.


I wish, but with the new CBA, Bye week actually means time off. They don't use the week to prepare as a team, they go home, get drunk and get in trouble. Stupidest thing yet.

Unfortunate. It would be nice if the guys would step up and take some responsibility, and actually use the time to work on this stuff. It isn't that hard, once you develop the proper habits.

Thanks for the feedback.

Traveling_Vike
10-31-2011, 02:28 PM
So you'll be hopping on the KC bandwagon if they win tonight??

Yes, at least as far as being in contention for that division again. They are not a SB team by any means, but they are much better than what they showed early.

marstc09
10-31-2011, 02:44 PM
Wanna help me finish it?

1) Marrdro
2) ?
3) ?
4) ?
5) ?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that is a good one!

marstc09
10-31-2011, 02:46 PM
Key third downs biggest difference between Ponder, McNabb | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/132920343.html)

I wonder how well the kid and Berrian would have worked together. My guess, alot better than the last two we had throwing to him.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA some old drivel I see. Why did I even come back? You are boring me. Berrian sucks. That is why is is gone. T-Joke sucks. That is why he is gone. When will you learn. 3rd downs are better because WRs and TEs are actually catching the ball.

marstc09
10-31-2011, 03:03 PM
I see we have the same ole posters posting the same ole drivel....Ol Sucks, DB's suck, DL is great......LOL.

Couple of thoughts.....

A. TOP first half......Panthers. 18:35 to Vikes 11:25. TOP Second half.......Vikes 16:30 to Panthers13:30.

In the second half, it appears our defensive coaching staff popped their heads out of their asses and decided that it was pretty stupid to keep blitzing with blitz packages that a 3rd grader could see coming.

Probably explains how the Vikings defense held the second ranked offens in yards per play from scrimmage (8.8) and was fifth in total offense, averaging 417 yards per game to just 173 yards and seven points in the second half.

B. Anyone notice, on the last drive who not only sacked the QB, but also had the key pass breakup in the secondary? Hussain. Judging by all of your posts, a peice of shit S.

C. Ponder. I also see a couple of you are still questioning young Ponder. LOL, same two who said TJ wouldn't ever work out to be a NFL QB. Judging by what he did in a little over a half of game yesterday, not sure why any of you would believe any of the drivel those two spew forth on here.

By the way Caine and EJmat, I'm almost ready for my beer.

Comeon people......

The OL played fine with a backup at RG. Yet again, our OL isn't as bad as most of you think.

Our DB's played fine when they weren't being hung out to dry by the D-coord play calling and lack of pressure by our DL. By the way, all of you who say our DB's aren't cover guy, guess what, your right. But then again, C2 CB's aren't cover guys now are they. In the end, our DB's had 2 gaffs were the S's got caught cheating up and biting on the short route. Take a chill pill people, all DB's do it especially when your competing against a guy like Cam.

And for those of you still spewing forth the drivel that our QB can't throw a deep ball after 2 games, guess what, he doesn't have anyone to throw it to. I really had to laugh when I saw a couple of beyyyyatches that he was off on his "Deep Throws" to a fricken TE. Think about it people, who throws deep throws to TE's. Teams that just fired their only deep threat and are still paying him.

You guys/gals want to beyyatch about something that is really wrong with this team, start beeeeeyatching about:

a. Our kicker.
b. Defensive Play Calling.
c. Offensive play calling. Seriously, they didn't have to stack the box (even though they did) cause our O-coord keeps bringing everyone into the box with his player sets for cripes sake.
d. Challenges. Were is the crowd that was asking for the Chillers head over some questionable thrown red flags. Those two yesterday were competely asinine.
e. DT's who can't collapse a pocket.

Those are real issues.

In the end, we won the game. A game by the way, that could almost be called a "Shootout" with a rookie QB, a patched together OL and secondary, against a pretty potent offense and defense, and you guys/gals beeeeeyatch.

Brother.

Same ole crap I see. Are you really still saying TJ is a good QB. You are in looney tunes land like usual. NEWS FLASH! They got their ass kicked by the Bungals. Chairlie was at 57% completion and TJ was at 52% with a INT and no TDs. You seriously need help. If TJ was healthy, why was he not starting? Let me help you....HE SUCKS ASS!

The real issues? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Wake up. I love how you think you are sooooo right all the time. The OL and Secondary are horrible. Period. It is sad that you can't see that.

So the kicker was the issue eh? LMFAO! Hey guys the kicker lost us the game! Oh wait that was the Panthers. Oh wait....remember what Cam said? Ohhhhh Cam who are you? We all know a yutz with a seat on a couch is much more knowledgeable that you.

The play calling on both sides was just fine. In fact it was better than in the beginning of the season.

This is all really common sense and does not take a great football mind to see. Although we all know you are in the same boat as Chilly as far as football minds. How is his job hunting btw? HAHAHAHAHAHHAAH ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I see you are still on the DT kick. They got good pressure just like last week. Funny how the Secondary still sucked.

Same ole drivel indeed.

LOL T-JOKE

i_bleed_purple
10-31-2011, 11:34 PM
I'm not sure if Marty is serious, or trolling hard. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.

Point a) DB's don't suck.

Rebuttal: They DO suck, They can not cover, they can not tackle, Yeah, Abdullah made one nice play that ONE time. Doesn't make up for him letting up a stupid TD from Olsen, missing hits, taking brutal angles and flat out playing slow. I liked what I saw from him last season, but he looks to have taken a HUGE step back.

b) OL doesn't suck

I truly wonder if you watch the same game I do. They are awful. Now, granted at times they make nice plays, but if to you that means they're a good group, then our DL should be dynamite, because they make nice plays too.

which leads me to my next point

c) DL can't pressure the QB.

WTF!?

d) EJ + Caine should be ready to buy you beer

:rofl:

Marrdro
11-01-2011, 08:51 AM
I'm not sure if Marty is serious, or trolling hard. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.

Point a) DB's don't suck.

Rebuttal: They DO suck, They can not cover, they can not tackle, Yeah, Abdullah made one nice play that ONE time. Doesn't make up for him letting up a stupid TD from Olsen, missing hits, taking brutal angles and flat out playing slow. I liked what I saw from him last season, but he looks to have taken a HUGE step back.

b) OL doesn't suck

I truly wonder if you watch the same game I do. They are awful. Now, granted at times they make nice plays, but if to you that means they're a good group, then our DL should be dynamite, because they make nice plays too.

which leads me to my next point

c) DL can't pressure the QB.

WTF!?

d) EJ + Caine should be ready to buy you beer

:rofl:


Offensive linemen (3)
Four sacks is a deceiving number for the line, which was directly responsible for only one -- Charles Johnson's outside rush that beat LT Charlie Johnson (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=245) in 4.0 seconds. Another Johnson-on-Johnson rush generated pressure in 3.1 seconds, forcing Ponder from the pocket to set up a sack for DT Terrell McClain. Considering how little help the group got, allowing pressure on only six of 33 total pass plays (18.2%) isn't a bad day's work. Three of those plays came on one stalled drive early in the fourth quarter, capped by McClain's rush against LG Steve Hutchinson (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=61) that forced Ponder to step up and uncork his wildest incompletion. Charlie Johnson (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=245) allowed one other pressure and moved DT Ronald Fields on Peterson's TD run. Peterson's run that Connor dumped for minus-5 might have been on Hutchinson, who otherwise blocked well and worked McClain on the screen that went for a score. C John Sullivan (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=57) returned from his concussion, handled McClain on the big shovel and sustained well all day in one of his finer efforts. RG Joe Berger (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=271) started in place of injured Anthony Herrera (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=60) (knee), had his hands full whenever a linebacker slammed into the gap, allowed one pressure and was just OK. He and RT Phil Loadholt (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=67) got the backside moving a bunch of times on those inside-zone runs, though. Loadholt gave up three QB pressures to Hardy, who also batted down a screen after a mediocre cut block.

Hmmmmmm,.....someone elses opinion doesn't jive with yours. Maybe he's trolling too.


Defensive linemen (3)
RE Jared Allen (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=72) (67 snaps) isn't dominating the way he did early in the season, but he keeps making the plays that count. He picked up QB Cam Newton's early fumble to set up one score. He set up another by torching LT Jordan Gross with a hesitation move for a strip-sack in 2.5 seconds. Allen had only one other pressure, forcing Newton to scramble on third-and-2. He also batted down a pass, made five solo tackles, had his hands full against Gross in the run game and lost contain on Newton's option run for 24. LE Brian Robison (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=79) (62) drew a holding call with one of his two QB pressures against RT Byron Bell, who otherwise made Robison invisible, particularly in the run game. Is he wearing down? UT Kevin Williams (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=83) (63) is trying -- the plays just aren't coming. He submarined Gross on first-and-goal for one of his four solo tackles. HB Jonathan Stewart dragged Williams once for a conversion on third-and-3 and again on a counter that gained 8. The Panthers did a good job of accounting for Williams on the manufactured draws and options they're running with Newton, whose 53 yards on six carries (8.8 average) boosted Carolina's 5.2 average (27 attempts, 140 yards). That's not tough when NT Remi Ayodele (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=243) (17), NT Fred Evans (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=80) (19) and DT Letroy Guion (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=81) (23) are getting shoved around next to him. Maybe it's the bum ankle, but Ayodele isn't anchoring the way he needs to against double teams. Evans got washed some, too, but at least he made a couple of plays -- tripping up Newton on that third-and-2 scramble and smashing into C Geoff Hangartner to alter an incompletion on the final drive. What has happened to Guion? He got wiped out on consecutive run plays from the nose early and was mostly just an ineffective nickel rusher after that. DL Everson Griffen (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=74) (14) and rookie DL Christian Ballard (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=230) (seven) played multiple spots and just blended in.



Defensive backs (1Ĺ)

This is what it's come to for the Vikings' depleted secondary -- shadowing one of the game's top receivers with a dime-caliber player because they don't have anyone else with two knees, a neck and an empty rap sheet. Credit CB Asher Allen (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=95) (65 snaps) with good coverage on the end-zone go ball that fell incomplete early and even the back-shoulder fade Smith whirled to haul in for 26 yards. A deep in-cut for 19, an out for 12 and another in for a 27-yard touchdown were too easy, though. CB Cedric Griffin (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=96) (67) mostly was protected in zone coverage, took a facemask penalty that looked more like a weak horse collar and held up fairly well in run support (seven tackles, six solo). He just can't run anymore. With CB Antoine Winfield (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=100) (neck) and Chris Cook (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=104) (suspended) still out of action, CB Marcus Sherels (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=99) handled nickel duties again and mostly played cleanup on throws underneath the zones, making two solo tackles. He went to the ground once against Naanee, drawing a holding call. Another bad bust overshadowed an otherwise productive day for FS Husain Abdullah (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=102) (65), who missed the jam on Olsen and was beaten by two steps up the seam for a 39-yard touchdown. He also couldn't close on a seam throw for 16 to TE Jeremy Shockey early. But Abdullah opened the second half with a sound stop on Naanee's third-and-6 drag, then had good coverage on WR Brandon LaFell's corner and broke up a post to Olsen on the final series. He also cleaned up a sack Greenway missed in 3.9 seconds -- the only time Abdullah blitzed all day as DC Fred Pagac rushed four on 28 of Newton's 35 dropbacks (80%). Abdullah finished with seven tackles (six solo) and SS Jamarca Sanford (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=107) (50) had three solo stops in his return from a concussion. Sanford seemed a step behind all day, lost a chance for an interception when he collided with Erin Henderson (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=90) and pulled himself from the game at least once. Fatigue apparently was the reason Sanford wasn't on the field when backup SS Tyrell Johnson (http://www.purplepride.org/pages/roster.php?pID=106) (17) was late to the spot on fourth-and-15, then spun his wheels as LaFell turned back to the sideline for what ended up being a 44-yard gain. Johnson has to be running out of chances now, right?


Breaking down the tape from the Vikings' win over the Panthers | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Breaking_down_the_tape_from_the_Vikings_win_over_the_Panthers110111)

On a side note, I think I'm gonna send him an email and ask were he gets his game tape from. I'd almost kill to get it.

Marrdro
11-01-2011, 08:53 AM
Same ole crap I see. Are you really still saying TJ is a good QB. You are in looney tunes land like usual. NEWS FLASH! They got their ass kicked by the Bungals. Chairlie was at 57% completion and TJ was at 52% with a INT and no TDs. You seriously need help. If TJ was healthy, why was he not starting? Let me help you....HE SUCKS ASS!

The real issues? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Wake up. I love how you think you are sooooo right all the time. The OL and Secondary are horrible. Period. It is sad that you can't see that.

So the kicker was the issue eh? LMFAO! Hey guys the kicker lost us the game! Oh wait that was the Panthers. Oh wait....remember what Cam said? Ohhhhh Cam who are you? We all know a yutz with a seat on a couch is much more knowledgeable that you.

The play calling on both sides was just fine. In fact it was better than in the beginning of the season.

This is all really common sense and does not take a great football mind to see. Although we all know you are in the same boat as Chilly as far as football minds. How is his job hunting btw? HAHAHAHAHAHHAAH ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I see you are still on the DT kick. They got good pressure just like last week. Funny how the Secondary still sucked.

Same ole drivel indeed.

LOL T-JOKE
Hacking on the Bengals I see. You do realize that TJ came in and put up over 300 in a little over a half of play and that was against the NUMBER 2 defense in the league.

Hacking on the number 2 defense....LOL. And you call me silly.

Go back to Cards land my friend.

singersp
11-01-2011, 09:01 AM
Chairlie [Whitehurst] was at 57% completion

You're bragging up Whitehurst when he only threw 7 passes & completed 4?

LOL! Where were you last week in his first start this year when he only completed 40% of his passes, 12-30 for a total of 97 yards, 0 TD's & an INT & a QB rating of 35?

No mater how bad you think Jackson is, Whitehurst is worse. The only reason he was starting was because of the injury to Jackson in week 5.

Marrdro
11-01-2011, 09:32 AM
You're bragging up Whitehurst when he only threw 7 passes & completed 4?

LOL! Where were you last week in his first start this year when he only completed 40% of his passes, 12-30 for a total of 97 yards, 0 TD's & an INT & a QB rating of 35?

No mater how bad you think Jackson is, Whitehurst is worse. The only reason he was starting was because of the injury to Jackson in week 5.
I just ignore ole Mars now. He has stated to many times that he is onboard with his backup plan now and has moved on.

Everyone of his posts are nothing more than one liners designed to get my ire up. LOL, I just find them funny.

Sometimes, judging by his "Man Love" of all things PUKER, if he really ever was a Vikings fan.

........snicker........

Marrdro
11-01-2011, 09:38 AM
Quick: Name Christian Ponder's top three highlights from Sunday's 24-21 victory at Carolina.
Having trouble? That's OK.
After all, the rookie quarterback's effort in his first NFL road start wasn't necessarily made for "SportsCenter." But it was designed for the win column, a steady effort with few mistakes.
And if you needed further proof that this charismatic 23-year-old not only has big-time potential but the patience to stay within himself, that came in the fourth quarter.
The Vikings defense had just forced its third consecutive three-and-out. Score tied 21-21, Ponder took over the huddle with 9:53 left. Ball on the Vikings 15-yard line.
Over the next seven minutes and change, Ponder played as if he were just slinging the ball around the backyard. He had a surgeon's combination of calm and urgency.
He engineered a game-winning drive.


Ponder's cool under fire sparks new Vikings spirit | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/132965228.html)

Marrdro
11-01-2011, 09:41 AM
Better predictors of rookie success are average yards per attempt and touchdown percentage. They are not linearly predictive (that is, one cannot expect, generally speaking, for rookies who perform worse or better in these stats to necessarily perform proportionally worse or better as their career progresses), in two different ways. Rookies who average one yard less per attempt than league average will almost always do poorly in their career. Anything above that, and it is hard to tell. Rookies who average the same or better than league average do tend to do well, but itís not as hard-and-fast as you think. Touchdown percentage (touchdowns per pass attempts) is similarly finicky Ė poor TD % is never predictive, but a good TD% is quite predictive. Donít ask me why, I do not know. Christian has 7.19 yards per attempt on the season, and the league average is 7.2. Successful rookie quarterbacks with a differential similar to 0.1 YPA (which is very good for a rookie) include Drew Brees (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1998/drew-brees) and Troy Aikman. For nearly every quarterback, it is more productive and predictive to use Adjusted Yards Per Attempt, where one subtracts 45 yards for every interception and all sack yardage from the pass yardage total before dividing from the number of attempts. The reason I say "nearly" every quarterback, is because interception percentage has nearly no bearing on future rookie performance (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=467). Nevertheless, it is easy to calculate and compare. The league average on AYPA is 5.6 and Christian Ponder sits right below it at 5.5. That is extremely encouraging. Only one first or second year QB is above Christian Ponder in this category (Cam Newton) and Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71416/josh-freeman), Colt McCoy (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/108600/colt-mccoy), Andy Dalton (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/130796/andy-dalton), Tim Tebow, and Blaine Gabbert (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/130805/blaine-gabbert) all sit below him. QBs with more experience that sit below him include Jay Cutler (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2919/jay-cutler), both ĎSkins QBs, Tarvaris Jackson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/3152/tarvaris-jackson), Mark Sanchez (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71108/mark-sanchez), and our own Donovan McNabb (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1348/donovan-mcnabb).


Arif Hasan?s mid-season review (Quarterbacks) - Daily Norseman (http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/10/31/2526332/arif-hasans-mid-season-review-quarterbacks)

I love the way he breaks stuff down. All kinds of good data in here.

Caine
11-01-2011, 09:41 AM
Hacking on the Bengals I see. You do realize that TJ came in and put up over 300 in a little over a half of play and that was against the NUMBER 2 defense in the league.

Hacking on the number 2 defense....LOL. And you call me silly.

Go back to Cards land my friend.

You realize that the Bengals are the FOURTH overall and NINTH against the pass, right?

You also realize that Jackson came in with just over 10 minutes left in the Second quarter...that's more than "a little over a half".

And, finally, you do realize that despite throwing for over 300 yards, he was responsible for only 8 points? Whitehurst was responsible for 3 with only 52 yards passing.

That means Jackson required 37.5 yards per point to Whitehurst's 17.3 yards per point.

Conclusion: Jackson is a sure fire first ballot hall of famer.....

:crazy:

Caine

Purple Floyd
11-01-2011, 09:45 AM
Ponder gives us hope we haven't had since culpeppers early years and that is refreshing. Now it is just time to sit back and see whether he is the latest Joe Montana or the latest Rick Mirer.

Marrdro
11-01-2011, 09:48 AM
You realize that the Bengals are the FOURTH overall and NINTH against the pass, right?


Assumption on my part is that ALL the news articles that claim they were the number 2 defense used stats prior to facing the Seachickens.

On a side note, Just proof of what a 300 yard passer will do to a defensive stats.


You also realize that Jackson came in with just over 10 minutes left in the Second quarter...that's more than "a little over a half".


Thats the best you got. A play on words. MMMMMMMM Beeeeer.


And, finally, you do realize that despite throwing for over 300 yards, he was responsible for only 8 points? Whitehurst was responsible for 3 with only 52 yards passing.

That means Jackson required 37.5 yards per point to Whitehurst's 17.3 yards per point.

Conclusion: Jackson is a sure fire first ballot hall of famer.....

:crazy:

Caine
You need to go back and watch the game. I know you refute anything I say as nothing more than excuses. Thats your standard answer for when your WRONG.

In the end, I can feel you breaking down my friend. All I really need from you is for you to ask the one and only question I had coming into this bet....

What would it take for you to admit that TJ is a NFL level QB. Not great, not a HOF'r, just a NFL level QB.

Seems to me, the only thing you have left is something related to points that you spewed forth in the other thread.

Caine
11-01-2011, 09:49 AM
Ponder gives us hope we haven't had since culpeppers early years and that is refreshing. Now it is just time to sit back and see whether he is the latest Joe Montana or the latest Rick Mirer.

I agree with that 100%. I certainly like MOST of what I see from Ponder...with a few previously mentioned areas of concern. Time will tell.

Caine

tastywaves
11-01-2011, 12:14 PM
Hmmmmmm,.....someone elses opinion doesn't jive with yours. Maybe he's trolling too.





Breaking down the tape from the Vikings' win over the Panthers | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Breaking_down_the_tape_from_the_Vikings_win_over_the_Panthers110111)

On a side note, I think I'm gonna send him an email and ask were he gets his game tape from. I'd almost kill to get it.

1 1/2 out of 5 for the DB's I would say fits right in the suck column.

jargomcfargo
11-01-2011, 12:23 PM
I agree with that 100%. I certainly like MOST of what I see from Ponder...with a few previously mentioned areas of concern. Time will tell.

Caine

I had a strong feeling Ponder would instantly improve the offense simply based upon his short and intermediate accuracy. Due to his ability to connect on some passes and convert 3rd downs he has elevated the play of the O-line a bit and opened things up for Peterson as well.
He also is improving the play of the receivers. Nice to see Schiancoe catching more balls.

If Musgrave ever gets his head out of his ass and trusts Ponder to audible out of a run when the defense is playing run, Peterson will have more yards per carry. At least he has finally learned to use AD in the passing game.

Despite that limited success Ponder is still going to climb that rookie wall where he has bad games with multiple interceptions, but he shows those flashes of promise we never saw with TJ.

Unfortunately, just as the offense is improving the defense is in need of a major overhaul.

I've been a Vikings fan forever and there have been many many years where they were good on one side of the ball but bad on the other.

Right now they aren't good on either side but Ponder at least brings us hope.

marstc09
11-01-2011, 12:49 PM
Hmmmmmm,.....someone elses opinion doesn't jive with yours. Maybe he's trolling too.





Breaking down the tape from the Vikings' win over the Panthers | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Breaking_down_the_tape_from_the_Vikings_win_over_the_Panthers110111)

On a side note, I think I'm gonna send him an email and ask were he gets his game tape from. I'd almost kill to get it.

Tom Pelissero? LOL ok cause his OPINION is golden. Just a yutz with the same eyes as me. God made them all the same. It is how you process the information and well what was his name again?

Oh yea and since when are you an ESPN backer. Flip flop.

marstc09
11-01-2011, 01:01 PM
Who gives a shit how many yards he had.

You do realize T-JOKE lost ........right? I would think a "Starter" could beat out a rookie.

Ooooopppps Andy had 168 yards and 2 INTs. Still won. There goes another one of your Peter Griffin theories. I bet if Favre had that type of game you would murder him so don't try anything dumb. I am sure you will.

T-JOKE to RICE. That is all you ever bitched about. Now he has it. Guess what Dalton to GREEN and Simpson???!!!!!! You are losing your bet by a million miles. Period.

Go back to your fantasy world.

marstc09
11-01-2011, 01:04 PM
You're bragging up Whitehurst when he only threw 7 passes & completed 4?

LOL! Where were you last week in his first start this year when he only completed 40% of his passes, 12-30 for a total of 97 yards, 0 TD's & an INT & a QB rating of 35?

No mater how bad you think Jackson is, Whitehurst is worse. The only reason he was starting was because of the injury to Jackson in week 5.

Who is bragging? Whitehurst sucks. Seriously you really need to pay attention. This just makes T-JOKE look even worse. It is not this hard to comprehend. Wow.

Nice job snipping my post Marddro Jr.

marstc09
11-01-2011, 01:13 PM
Fuck off dbag. Don't ever judge my fan-hood. I have been to more games than you and I am willing to bet I have more memorabilia than you. If anyone should be ignored it is you and you Peter Griffin theories. I love how you act like you are some sort of football god. Last time I checked you have no coaching experience. I bet any NFL team would hire you in a minute.

Here is a pointer for you. Keep fan-hood out of it. It makes you look more like Peter Griffin.

jargomcfargo
11-01-2011, 01:14 PM
LOL ! Mars kicking ass and taking names today.

marstc09
11-01-2011, 01:14 PM
You realize that the Bengals are the FOURTH overall and NINTH against the pass, right?

You also realize that Jackson came in with just over 10 minutes left in the Second quarter...that's more than "a little over a half".

And, finally, you do realize that despite throwing for over 300 yards, he was responsible for only 8 points? Whitehurst was responsible for 3 with only 52 yards passing.

That means Jackson required 37.5 yards per point to Whitehurst's 17.3 yards per point.

Conclusion: Jackson is a sure fire first ballot hall of famer.....

:crazy:

Caine

:petersaysowsmall:

marstc09
11-01-2011, 01:16 PM
Assumption on my part is that ALL the news articles that claim they were the number 2 defense used stats prior to facing the Seachickens.

On a side note, Just proof of what a 300 yard passer will do to a defensive stats.


Thats the best you got. A play on words. MMMMMMMM Beeeeer.


You need to go back and watch the game. I know you refute anything I say as nothing more than excuses. Thats your standard answer for when your WRONG.

In the end, I can feel you breaking down my friend. All I really need from you is for you to ask the one and only question I had coming into this bet....

What would it take for you to admit that TJ is a NFL level QB. Not great, not a HOF'r, just a NFL level QB.

Seems to me, the only thing you have left is something related to points that you spewed forth in the other thread.

More garbage.....

Any QB drafted is a NFL level QB. Get out of here with that bullshit.

Caine wins.

marstc09
11-01-2011, 01:18 PM
1 1/2 out of 5 for the DB's I would say fits right in the suck column.

:rofl:

He picks and chooses what he needs to fit his plan.

Ranger
11-01-2011, 04:33 PM
I would think a "BEAST" would have more than 14 rushing yards on 8 carries at the half.

Yes, he had two nice catches as a receiver, but as a rusher in the first half he sucked. I expected more in the first half from a RB who most people here call "the best running back in the league".

Laughably reductionist.

i_bleed_purple
11-01-2011, 04:46 PM
LOL! Yep.

If football games consisted of only first halfs, then yes, AP had a bad game.

But he had a strong second half, running as hard as ever, and was a huge force in the passing game. They didn't give him much ont he ground, but he made every inch count. Many, many of those carries would have been losses by any other back.

MulletMullitia
11-01-2011, 06:24 PM
LOL! Yep.

If football games consisted of only first halfs, then yes, AP had a bad game.

But he had a strong second half, running as hard as ever, and was a huge force in the passing game. They didn't give him much ont he ground, but he made every inch count. Many, many of those carries would have been losses by any other back.

+1

I would like to note that the game in which AP set the single game rushing record of 296 yards, he rushed for 250 yards in the second half.

keystonevike
11-02-2011, 01:22 AM
As usual, you mistake a constructive criticism for "bitching"...but then your personal axe probably needed some grinding anyway.

Ponder ran for 4 yards...in 4 attemtps...but also had 4 sacks...3 of which (IIRC) were while he was running towards the Line of scrimmage.

Point is, even the commentators (Moose and Goose - not my favorites, but whatever) pointed out the same thing. Ponder didn't extend the play with his legs on those occassions - something we see Vet guys do - he tucked and ran (Something we see Rookies do a lot).

Yes, the O-line sucked...but he had OPPORTUNITIES on several of those plays that a VET would have seen.

His deep GO routes - thrown to Shiancoe and Aromashodu - weren't where they needed to be, and weren't the Receivers fault. It's a simple TIMING issue which will HOPEFULLY resolve itself, but as of RIGHT NOW remains an area of concern. I have yet to see Ponder connect on a GO route of any kind. Maybe I missed one, or maybe he hasn't hit one. I'm hopeful that he will correct that.

Peterson and Gerhardt were tough as hell, breaking Carolina's choke hold on our offense. Peterson as our leading receiver is a suprise...shows he's elevating his personal game - something the rest of the NFL won't like. Harvin was irreplaceable - his injury issues are a concern, and I hope he can stay healthy - but he was solid today.

So, as I previously stated, I'm not ready to anoint anyone to anything after only TWO games. Doesn't make it hate, doesn't make it bitching...it makes it what it is - me watching a rookie, seeing rookie mistakes, and waiting to see how he corrects them.

Remember Jackson? Remember all the "potential" we heard about each week? Remember all the bright spots in his play that some tried to claim were him establishing himself? Didn't materialize. I didn't hate Jackson...I simply didn't see ON THE FIELD what I needed to see to feel that he was a valid starter.

Ponder has played two games. He has looked pretty good so far, but he has had some silly rookie mistakes. And in my initial post I pointed to a couple of rookie holes that need to be addressed. Sorry I didn't write a 30 page paper outlining all of the positives I saw as well in order to satisfy your personal need for rainbows, puppy's, and lollipops, but I touched on a couple of issues that bothered me after an UGLY win.

I'm sorry that you construe that as gloom and doom. I invite you to select the "Ignore" option so that you no longer have to read my posts. See, I plan to do what I've alsways done - write about what I see...good or bad...as I see it. The fact taht it doesn't suit your personal desires doesn't mean much to me. In fact, there are 5 opinions in this world I give a shit about...and you're not on that list.

Caine

So you would like to go back to McNabb? He's our VET QB.

Caine
11-02-2011, 02:45 AM
So you would like to go back to McNabb? He's our VET QB.

Really? After reading everything prior to this, THAT is the conclusion you came to? Seriously?

Stop eating the paint chips. They just aren't good for you.

Caine

Caine
11-02-2011, 02:59 AM
What would it take for you to admit that TJ is a NFL level QB. Not great, not a HOF'r, just a NFL level QB.


I will quote you something I wrote to you in another area:


Marrdro, it's real simple. Is he winning? No.
Is his team even competitive? No.
Is he better than Whitehurst? Maybe...but who isn't?

Is he a VIABLE NFL STARTER? Not one I would want on MY team.

The fact that he's the best shitty QB in Seattle doesn't make him a good QB. He's never the best QB on the field on Sunday.
You can't start pointing fingers at other players either because YOU were the one who touted the Line improvements there, and YOU were the one who pointed to their receiver corps there. Yet, despite all of that, Seattle remains a losing team in a weak division, most recently being blasted (Yes, BLASTED) by the hapless Bengals....YOUR favorite team.

As much as you want him to be, he still isn't. It's not blind hate, mein fruend, it's cold reality.

Caine

I will GLADLY admit that Jackson is a viable NFL QB WHEN HE ACTUALLY IS. Until that day, I stand firmly on the side of, "He sucks, I don't want him, I'm glad he's gone".

He didn't make this team better. He still wouldn't.

He only makes Seattle better because his comparison point is Charlie Whitehurst. Plunk another QB into that spot and Jackson again is embroiled in a fan-lead QB controversy....much like he was HERE whenever we had a QB of dubious worth on our roster (Holcomb, Frerotte, etc).

This weeks game, the one you point to with glee, he had a 69.1 QB rating. 69.1 !!!!!! His highest rated game? A LOSS versus Arizona.

Fact is, he's still the same guy we saw here. A guy who has flashes of adequacy, but disappoints on the larger level. He's NOT the guy I would choose to lead a team I cared about. He's not a guy I would remotely worry about hurting me if I played against him. He's just a guy soaking up a roster space that would be better filled with another player.

Seattle has NO viable QB options. Jackson hasn't done anything to convince anyone other than YOU that they do.

In short, He's not a guy I would build a team around, he's a placeholder until THAT guy is found. Until he stops being the placeholder and starts being "The Man",
he's not a legit starting option.

Caine

singersp
11-02-2011, 08:49 AM
Laughably reductionist.

Not at all.

I would love to see great production out of him in both halves & not just one.

Lack of production in 1/2 half of the game by our team has cost us us several ball games.

You call it laughable, I call it reality. How many leads did we blow?

But you three go ahead & feel free to accept good play in only half the game is good enough.

i_bleed_purple
11-02-2011, 02:17 PM
Not at all.

I would love to see great production out of him in both halves & not just one.

Lack of production in 1/2 half of the game by our team has cost us us several ball games.

You call it laughable, I call it reality. How many leads did we blow?

But you three go ahead & feel free to accept good play in only half the game is good enough.

Ah, and I'm sure that was all on AP. A little tough to run over a team when you're getting hit consistently in the backfield.

This was a game where we passed to open up the run. They were keying on AP, because they didn't think Ponder could beat them deep with 8 in the box (he couldn't). However, some well placed screens, some nice medium-length routes to our TE's opened up the run game for AP, who made him pay as well.

Besides, AP having a great game doesn't just mean rushing totals. Last I checked, he caught a few screens for a LOT of YAC, it's not like he caught that TD in the endzone, he had to run 15-20 yards, basically a rush at that point.

marstc09
11-02-2011, 03:53 PM
Not at all.

I would love to see great production out of him in both halves & not just one.

Lack of production in 1/2 half of the game by our team has cost us us several ball games.

You call it laughable, I call it reality. How many leads did we blow?

But you three go ahead & feel free to accept good play in only half the game is good enough.

Reality is the inconsistency of the OL.