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View Full Version : Is Frazier going to cut it?



Purple Floyd
10-18-2011, 09:42 PM
Yes
or No.

Thoughts?

Purple Floyd
10-18-2011, 09:45 PM
My thoughts are that it will hinge less on him than on whether the FO above him is restructured to a more traditional, more experienced GM and whether the Wilfs step back and worry about developing the Arden Hills area into a retail mecca and let the team building be done by someone with experience and a proven track record.

So in the end I guess that is a No

i_bleed_purple
10-18-2011, 10:33 PM
way too early to tell.

He definitely has a long way to go, and a number of great coaches started out awful. he doesn't have much to work with this season, and it shows.

I knwo he's one of the 'quiet' guys like Dungy, but Dungy at least motivated his teams. He didn't get fired up and started yelling on the sidelines, but he actually showed some emotion.

I'm not sure Les's method is the best way.

MulletMullitia
10-18-2011, 11:23 PM
Definitely way too early to tell. That being said, I still have total faith in Leslie. I begged for a players coach, and that's what we got. I have his back. He was given an absolute disaster of a roster. Let's give him some time to surround himself with some great football players. Spielman needs to get the boot, but Leslie needs to stay. I know lots of you guys want a big name coach. Mostly veteran guys around here like Singer hoping for Bill Cowher. That isn't a bad plan. But I have no problem jumpstarting a new head coach. Look at Mike Tomlin. A guy that we should have upgraded ourselves. Also, I am loving what Hue Jackson is doing in Oakland. Give him some more time! I am confident that he won't continue to disappoint when we strengthen this roster.

Gift
10-18-2011, 11:25 PM
He has a reeeeeeeeeaaaaally long way to go. Case in point, announcing Ponder is the starter on Monday. Why? why not wait til friday? Why give GB an entire week to prepare? What would Belichick do?

jargomcfargo
10-18-2011, 11:31 PM
Musgrave has to stop trying to trick his way to first downs and wins.
Spielman needs to seriously change his ways or part company.
Otherwise I fear Leslie will have a tough time.
Give him the opportunity to get some players and have an off season to work with them, he will probably be alright in a couple years.

keystonevike
10-18-2011, 11:49 PM
My thoughts are that it will hinge less on him than on whether the FO above him is restructured to a more traditional, more experienced GM and whether the Wilfs step back and worry about developing the Arden Hills area into a retail mecca and let the team building be done by someone with experience and a proven track record.

So in the end I guess that is a No

The FO does need to be restructured with qualified people who build the team through trades and the draft rather than making a big splash in free agency every year.
My thoughts are that he probably won't be kept around to see this process play out.

tastywaves
10-19-2011, 10:28 AM
He has a reeeeeeeeeaaaaally long way to go. Case in point, announcing Ponder is the starter on Monday. Why? why not wait til friday? Why give GB an entire week to prepare? What would Belichick do?

Tape the opponents practice and start Tom Brady.

tastywaves
10-19-2011, 10:37 AM
I pretty much agree with Floyd. If Frazier had the right supporting cast, he would probably be fine. Problem is he doesn't and the combination of his inexperience along with a horrible supporting cast is a recipe for failure.

If Zygi is not going to hire a GM and run a strong front office, then I think you need a strong proven HC that has conviction on a formula for success. For the same reasons we don't have a GM is probably the reason we won't get a strong proven HC.

Owner doesn't want to hand over the keys.

battleaxe4cheese
10-19-2011, 12:34 PM
He has a reeeeeeeeeaaaaally long way to go. Case in point, announcing Ponder is the starter on Monday. Why? why not wait til friday? Why give GB an entire week to prepare? What would Belichick do?

Preparation for Donny run offense= crowd the line/stop AP and let Rodgers do his thing=win

Preparation for Ponder= ? No tape virtually to watch. I'm sure they will try to confuse him/ throw exotic blitzes/mixed coverages to throw off the new kid. They will probably bring pressure in order to keep him from settling in and start torching there pretty bad defense. I think pressure on Ponder is expected and bodes well for him because he is very mobile and will probably do a lot of scrambling and subsequently pick up several first downs that way.

I think Ponder will get a lot of designed roll outs in order to make him comfortable, especially behind our horrible line. I don't see him getting easily rattled and I think he will raise a few eyebrows come game time.

I wouldn't even start Berrian as he will only drop balls that Ponder will hit him in the numbers with. I would start A-Rom and let him snag a few balls. At least he isn't scared to get hit and he's hungry.

I also would like to see more plays with Rudolph as the intended target. He has phenomenal hands and would be a reliable target for Ponder to get his confidence built.

Purple Floyd
10-19-2011, 01:20 PM
I would like to see them get back to that power 2 TE formation stuff with Kleinsasser as a FB and AP in the I formation. Then I would run straight at Matthews all day and break him down. He is fast and athletic but not built to take an OT and FB beating him to heck on every play. Eventually we would take a toll on him and while we might lose by 50 in the process it would soften him up for the next time we play them. I would use the same strategy on Rodgers. Press the WR's at the line and jam them to throw off the timing route plays and make sure to hit him on every pass play.

If we stay back in the zone defense without challenging the WR's and if we let Rodgers get comfortable in the pocket it is going to be one sided and ugly.

Marrdro
10-19-2011, 02:31 PM
I don't think so and for the following reasons:

a. Price. The Wilfs can't find anyone cheaper for the small window they have left to operate in. If they opted to bring in someone of higher visability, it would cost alot more and it might make it a bit tough to sell the team.

b. Attitude. Face it, Leslie isn't gonna ruffle anyones feathers. He is pretty much a yes man right now if what I read about Speilman forcing him to move to Ponder is correct.

What might happen........

Leslie will be forced to fire his O-coord as the sacrificial lamb. Maybe even Pagac as well, but he will retain his job.

The only problem I see with all of that is dependant on what Leslie does in his pressers. So far BB, JA and now Griff have been thrown under the bus with BB and JA speaking out. Haven't seen anything out of Griff yet. If he keeps hacking on his players that way, he might just wind up gone.

AngloVike
10-19-2011, 02:42 PM
I wouldn't even start Berrian as he will only drop balls that Ponder will hit him in the numbers with. I would start A-Rom and let him snag a few balls. At least he isn't scared to get hit and he's hungry.

I also would like to see more plays with Rudolph as the intended target. He has phenomenal hands and would be a reliable target for Ponder to get his confidence built.

agreed and as I recall they worked together during the lockout. I suspect they could work well together and, in theory, would fit in with Musgraves emphasis on the TE - which we have yet to see.

Purple Floyd
10-19-2011, 02:58 PM
I don't think so and for the following reasons:

a. Price. The Wilfs can't find anyone cheaper for the small window they have left to operate in. If they opted to bring in someone of higher visability, it would cost alot more and it might make it a bit tough to sell the team.

The only way Wilf sells is if the state votes down the stadium. We WILL know by Thanksgiving whether or not that will happen. They will pass the stadium bill and the team is going to stay and you can bookmark that statement just as surely as you could have quoted the positions I had on Childress, the KAO, TJ and McChunky.:D


b. Attitude. Face it, Leslie isn't gonna ruffle anyones feathers. He is pretty much a yes man right now if what I read about Speilman forcing him to move to Ponder is correct.
Where is the link on that? I started an internet rumor on the topic and I want to know if anyone is stealing my conspiracy theories.:flame:



What might happen........

Leslie will be forced to fire his O-coord as the sacrificial lamb. Maybe even Pagac as well, but he will retain his job.
At this point he should fire them both as well as the ST coach and the waterboy.....



The only problem I see with all of that is dependant on what Leslie does in his pressers. So far BB, JA and now Griff have been thrown under the bus with BB and JA speaking out. Haven't seen anything out of Griff yet. If he keeps hacking on his players that way, he might just wind up gone.

When did he throw JA under the bus? Specifically.

battleaxe4cheese
10-19-2011, 04:47 PM
The only way Wilf sells is if the state votes down the stadium. We WILL know by Thanksgiving whether or not that will happen. They will pass the stadium bill and the team is going to stay and you can bookmark that statement just as surely as you could have quoted the positions I had on Childress, the KAO, TJ and McChunky.:D


Where is the link on that? I started an internet rumor on the topic and I want to know if anyone is stealing my conspiracy theories.:flame:



At this point he should fire them both as well as the ST coach and the waterboy.....




When did he throw JA under the bus? Specifically.

Ya, that's what I'm trying to figure out. :think:

ultravikingfan
10-19-2011, 06:20 PM
Yup.

Get rid of him

Purple Floyd
10-19-2011, 07:07 PM
Yup.

Get rid of him

Marty?

ultravikingfan
10-19-2011, 08:48 PM
Marty?

Hardly.

I just am old enough to remember Steckyl. :petersaysowsmall:

i_bleed_purple
10-19-2011, 08:53 PM
When did he throw JA under the bus? Specifically.

it doesn't matter, this is a discussion site so the fact Marty said it happened means it happened.

Purple Floyd
10-19-2011, 09:05 PM
Hardly.

I just am old enough to remember Steckyl. :petersaysowsmall:

Ahhh yes. Les Steckle. And his wife Tes Steckle.

vikinggreg
10-19-2011, 10:36 PM
I can't help but think of Jim Caldwell when I see Frazier but I some how think Leslie is a better coach that said I don't think he's going to last. Frazier has had to play some tough cards, lockout, new salary cap, a team who's future home is up in the air (lack of some stability), suspect oline, wr limitations and a QB mess but he did get AD, JA, Kwill and a few other strong contibutors....But the one card he has his own finger prints on is that Tampa 2 defense, bend don't break and how many years has it been that they've had problems dealing with tighends....Monday night football and the Patriots didn't even bother to run at all just nickle and dime the defense and chew up those zones with short passes, leading the Steeler in the dome at home and the 4 quarter Heath Miller was it like 3 straight plays. Sure it was Tomlin's defense he took over with Childress at the top but it still looked the same when the Lions started chewing up the yards with Pettigrew, wearing down the defense the busting out some big runs and megatron....but before we get another coach this team needs a home for stability and a proper GM.