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Webby
10-16-2011, 08:11 PM
Horrific first quarter. Who's still watching?

NeoVikesTX
10-16-2011, 08:21 PM
I'm still watching. Even though it's pretty painful. :irked:

missvikes
10-16-2011, 08:35 PM
Until it kills me

Marrdro
10-16-2011, 08:35 PM
I have i said lately how bad our dl sucks.

Marrdro
10-16-2011, 08:36 PM
I have i said lately how bad our dl sucks.
That was supposed to be in all caps.

Marrdro
10-16-2011, 08:43 PM
I've seen enough of that Blazer shit as well. Couple that with JA getting manhandled by a G now play LT (all by himself) and I'm ready to shitcan the whole fricken coaching staff.

Marrdro
10-16-2011, 08:44 PM
Ohhh and another thing. You send blitzers and don't even touch the QB. I'm not talking any QB, I'm talking "Jay I get no protection from my OL" QB.

Webby
10-16-2011, 08:45 PM
error after error....we need the 3 I spose.

OH WAIT, missed it.

Brewtal
10-16-2011, 08:46 PM
I'm done with watching untill McNabb is gone.

Marrdro
10-16-2011, 08:47 PM
I've figured it out. This team knows it can't win cause of piss poor coaching, shitty assed DL play and now we get ole "I can't miss Shortwell" missing fricken FG's.

Anyone else want to stand up and tell me I'm wrong on ole Shortwells ass needing to go? I dare ya. Anyone. comeon.

BBQ Platypus
10-16-2011, 08:50 PM
He was 9 of 10 on the year before that kick. Kickoffs are from the 35 now so kickoff ability don't mean shit anymore. And who, pray tell, do you propose we replace him with?

For Christ's sake, Marrdro, give it a rest already. I like you a lot, but it's telling that in the midst of a trainwreck like this, the first thing you think to mention is yet another one of your fucking hobbyhorses that nobody cares about.

Yeah, I get it. He used to be a Packer, which means you hate him forever and for all time. I don't care, and neither does anybody else on this forum, in this state, in this country, on this planet, in this universe. Good day, sir.

LaBonBon
10-16-2011, 08:51 PM
I'm done with watching untill McNabb is gone.

I said that the day he signed with the Vikes.

Marrdro
10-16-2011, 08:52 PM
He was 9 of 10 on the year before that kick. Kickoffs are from the 35 now so kickoff ability don't mean shit anymore. Give it a rest, Marrdro. I like you a lot, but it's telling that in the midst of a trainwreck like this, the first thing you think to mention is yet another one of your fucking hobbyhorses that nobody cares about.
Give it a rest? Why? All I heard was how great he was and how last weeks gaff was a fluke. Besides, it isn't like I'm hacking on just ole Shortwell my friend. I got plenty to go around.

On a side note, it is very good to see you posting.

Freakout
10-16-2011, 09:10 PM
Longwell can go.

After we replace Sullivan, Berrian, both Safeties, Ced Griffin, Ayodele. Oh and get a MLB that belongs in our scheme.

Webby
10-16-2011, 09:22 PM
Longwell is actually quite good, but people are pissed and Marrdro is the usual soap box.

We need a lot more changes before we get rid of a guy who is nearly always automatic on FGs.

idahovikefan7
10-16-2011, 09:26 PM
Nothing can fix this team...nothing

i_bleed_purple
10-16-2011, 09:33 PM
I've figured it out. This team knows it can't win cause of piss poor coaching, shitty assed DL play and now we get ole "I can't miss Shortwell" missing fricken FG's.

Anyone else want to stand up and tell me I'm wrong on ole Shortwells ass needing to go? I dare ya. Anyone. comeon.

Yeah, I will.

Longwells kickoffs are fine, our coverage just sucks. On the Hester return, the kick was high and at the 1. Our coverage team met him at around the 16 yard line, couldn't do jack shit as usual.

As for the miss? It happens. I challenge you to find ANY Kicker who has never missed a kick.

I dare ya. Anyone. Comeon.

i_bleed_purple
10-16-2011, 09:35 PM
I've figured it out. This team knows it can't win because of piss poor coaching, shitty assed OL play and we get ole "I can't cover shit" Griffen, who has OBVIOUSLY slowed down.

Anyone else want to stand up and tell me I'm wrong on any of those points? I dare ya. Anyone. comeon.

12purplepride28
10-16-2011, 09:36 PM
Yah seriously Marrdro Longwell isn't the problem. Everyone misses once in awhile. Get over it.

12purplepride28
10-16-2011, 09:40 PM
Pathetic by Mcnabb. Even Kluwe sucks tonight.

BBQ Platypus
10-16-2011, 09:41 PM
Give it a rest? Why? All I heard was how great he was and how last weeks gaff was a fluke. Besides, it isn't like I'm hacking on just ole Shortwell my friend. I got plenty to go around.

On a side note, it is very good to see you posting.

You imply it every time you call him "Shortwell." It has gotten to the point where it doesn't even resemble an argument at all - just a vaguely argument-shaped object that contributes nothing to this forum except noise. Even if it were a problem, it wouldn't be a top-10 priority on this dumpster fire of a football team.

Long story short, you're a cool guy and I've always admired you, but this is a little annoying.

MaxVike
10-16-2011, 09:41 PM
a pass play over 20 yards would be absolutely amazing. oh, and, when out of the pocket, with no hope...throw the fucking ball.

Mama McNabb is gone? Me too, this is fucking embarassing.

missvikes
10-16-2011, 09:43 PM
OMG!!!OMG!! Ponder is warming up!!!!!:clap:

i_bleed_purple
10-16-2011, 09:43 PM
Sadly, McNabb isn't close to our biggest issue tonight.

He's not lit it up, but he's not been that bad.

Our OL by far is the biggest concern. McNabb can't get time to make a throw, AP can't get a hole to run.

The blocking by "Ol' Sully" was absolutely fucking pathetic.


The BIGGEST concern for me, one we won't easily fix is coaching.

We had a promising drive, and we kill it by putting Webb in at QB.

I disagree with Marrdro, in that the wildcat or "blazer" isn't completely pointless. It has its uses, but NOT on 3rd and 4.

we were doing fine, keep doing what we're doing.

The playcalling is just trying to be too cute. Massive motions by TE's, playaction sack. Good job Musgrave. Just start with the basicss, we're not going to be faking anybody.

JPPT1974
10-16-2011, 09:43 PM
Expect Ponder to be the starter in week 7! Wouldn't be surprising if he were!

i_bleed_purple
10-16-2011, 09:45 PM
Oh, and they're keeping 8 in to block our DL, so I understand not getting sacks.

however, that means they only have 3 receivers out on routes. We should damn well be able to cover 3 receivers.

12purplepride28
10-16-2011, 09:48 PM
I swear if Ponder doesn't throw 5 TDs then I will hate him forever and come up with an annoying nickname that I will forever refer to him as.

12purplepride28
10-16-2011, 10:08 PM
I really like Ponder. A lot. I love him.

Purple Mk1
10-16-2011, 10:15 PM
Ponder looked very good in the first drive. Moved around and avoided the sacks that McNabb couldn't. Definitely provided a spark and, more importantly, he actually hit a receiver or two when they were standing upright (not trying to dig one out of the dirt) and could try to make something happen.

CbusVikefan
10-16-2011, 10:28 PM
Ponder looked pretty good in garbage time. Give him the reps this week. Surely not going to hurt at this point.

RK.
10-16-2011, 10:42 PM
What really sucks is that my Viking jacket is my warmest jacket and with winter coming on I am embarrassed to wear it.

Yeah Ponder came in but did he put any points on the board? No.

VikesfaninWis
10-16-2011, 10:49 PM
This team is pitiful. I can't stand watching a team with no heart. Come on Zygi make a damn statement, fire this useless coaching staff and get rid of the systems along with them.

I will say this much, for a defense that was kicking the crap out of McNabb tonight, Ponder sure looked good against them. Was it that the Bears defense was tired from running after McNabb all night and Ponder was fresh? I don't know that answer but I can say that Ponder looked much quicker than McNabb looked at any point this season.

Time to start Ponder from this point on. If Frazier doesn't, he needs to be fired immediately. Now I know that Wilf won't fire his staff at this point with trying to get a new stadium, but this staff needs to go, and go soon.

Our DB's f'n suck. Not one of them is worth a crap besides Winfield but he hasn't been out there. They are never in the proper position and are always beat. There is no way in hell that Hester should have been able to catch that TD in the beginning of the game if our DB's were in the proper position. They are always getting beat, always drop what would be interceptions right in there hands, and can't tackle for shit. All I know is this act is getting old and I am tired of it.

Green Bay is going to dismantle the Vikings next week and I hope every single Viking fan boos the living hell out of this team next week in the Dome. The place however will be loud when the Packers score their points as there will probably be more Packer fans in there than Viking fans. Pretty pathetic huh? Well thats what we get for being fans of a choking franchise like the Vikings.

12purplepride28
10-16-2011, 10:49 PM
What really sucks is that my Viking jacket is my warmest jacket and with winter coming on I am embarrassed to wear it.

Yeah Ponder came in but did he put any points on the board? No.

Considering he was running for his life with only 5 healthy OL "men" and he had a couple throws dropped/called back for holding, I think he did pretty awesome. I think he has an extremely bright future in this league and I look forward to seeing him trash the pukers next week! SKOL VIKINGS!

i_bleed_purple
10-16-2011, 10:50 PM
What really sucks is that my Viking jacket is my warmest jacket and with winter coming on I am embarrassed to wear it.

Yeah Ponder came in but did he put any points on the board? No.

Saw some good thing from Ponder, but enough to say "wow, this guy HAS to start next week".

I said 3 weeks ago, McNabb gets 3 weeks to show me something, othwerwise I'm calling for Ponder.

I honestly believe McNabb did ok tonight. If not put in a huge hole early on where the D could pin their ears back and abuse him all day long, I'm sure we'd have done much, much better with a balanced O. His throws were mostly accurate, a couple poor throws, but so does everyone (did you see the skip-pass Ponder made. He even completed a TJ-style jump-pass!)

He is now on a game-to game basis. He did just well enough to earn another game, but not well enough to cement himself as starter.

If he does well next week, he earns an excusable game. If he does ok, stays game to game. If he sucks, Ponder time.

acman1
10-16-2011, 11:05 PM
Was Cedric Griffin wearing the black socks so Cutler could find him easier on the field and throw at him?

Also, why is McNabb never looking at photo's or charts or even talking to coaches when the offense isn't on the field? Maybe he is and the camera doesn't show it but I've never noticed it.

One more thing, was that the first time K. Williams hit the qb this year (maybe even last year as well)?

i_bleed_purple
10-16-2011, 11:14 PM
Also, one guy who's starting to get on my shit-list.

Shiancoe.

I've got the dude on facebook (his actual profile) and he always talks about how he promises they'll get their shit together, they need to focus, play a full game, every down like it's their last, all sorts of other football cliches.

however, when you lay out the facts, the dude had a down year last year, and has done very little this year. Our first drive of the game, highlighted by a 3rd down DROP by Shank that would have netted a first down. A few plays later, Griff's getting beat for a TD by Hester.

Bears continue to pile it on until things get out of hand.

skum
10-16-2011, 11:33 PM
First time all year in which all fasets of the game sucked, to top it off, it was on SNF with everyone watching..

Blah!

i_bleed_purple
10-16-2011, 11:38 PM
We always seem to suck on Sunday Night.

Next week is Sunday at 4. We'll kick some ass there, keep my undefeated record at the dome intact.

mamaluke
10-17-2011, 12:25 AM
Tonight was the first time I sat down ( forced myself) to watch the Vikes play and, halfway through the first quarter, found myself watching Operation Repo on the TruTV channel. Although I had given up all hope the day they signed McNabb ( and also made the prediction they would go 4-12 for the season and McNabb would be benched by week #6) I thought maybe, just maybe, they might actually show up tonight and steal one away from the Bears. I couldn't stomach watching anymore after the safety and watching that deep Hester TD pass where Griffin got so burnt he should have been arrested ( not to mention that ass clown Abdullah) . I have to revise my prediction to 2-14 for the season. There really are no bright spots that I can see except for maybe the kid Kyle Rudolph, Harvin, Winfield, Greenway and Peterson. Hopefully Ponder can prove to be a elite QB in this league. It looks like the Vikings will suck just enough to miss out on the #1 pick but it doesn't really matter at this point because there is no one guy that is going to right this ship. This organization is so far behind the eight ball that it is going to take quite a few years to get things going in the right direction again. To get the quality players needed, the coaching staff needed, is going to take a while so we best be patient and just eat shit for a while. Sucks but it is what it is!!!

Gift
10-17-2011, 12:44 AM
well...that sucked.

MindCrimes67
10-17-2011, 02:14 AM
To say McNabb looked decent is stupid. He can not make the throws necessary to beat the 8-9 in box to make them pay for all the blitzing. He has got to go. He did not hit many if any receivers in stride. I saw Ponder do that on his first throws. Our OL looked horrific. Throwing out an idea.. I say we pursue trading away Gerhart, Play Ponder. And let him learn, get ready for draft. We need to build this team through the draft. Gerhart would have some value out there. Ditch this trying to be cute with the wildcat crap. Either move Webb to receiver or trade him. We have some great weapons, Let Ponder play with them. Cook has looked pretty good this year didnt see him getting burnt tonite. But did see Cedric get burned along with safeties. Time to also ditch this Tampa 2 defense, it is not working. Our LB core is lacking in pass coverage. Just some of my observations.

Freya
10-17-2011, 06:34 AM
Booooooooooooo!

Even the usual bright spot that is the special teams sucked last night.

The most exciting thing for me was how much the game sped up when Ponder came in. LOVED the closeups of the Bears defense huffing and puffing after the plays. Might have had a better shot at a comeback if Ponder had come in for the whole second half.



Dear Leslie,

I have no faith in your abilities as head coach. Please prove me wrong.

ConnecticutViking
10-17-2011, 07:02 AM
Total Breakdown in all facets of the game. Offense, Defense and Special Teams.:irked:

Offense looked terrible, couldn't take advantage of 8-9 in the box. Could NOT block the pass rush and settled for short passes in the flat or underneath. McNabb, totally inaccurate. Cute play calling in fact played into the Bears strengths. I mean why run a Wildcat offense or a three tightend set when they have practically the whole team in the box? McNabb's fall down in the endzone was pathetic.:mad:

Deffense was MAN-HANDLED! :( Forte ran at will. No pressure from the D-Line. Our Blitz schemes were picked up and pretty obvious. Our secondary outright SUCKED. How the hell are guys so wide open when at times they are only sending two receivers out in patterns? Linebackers are not the personel needed for the Tampa Two.

Special Teams- Missed FG, Rotten punts, Kickoff return. Enough Said

All in all...yes the players play the game. But the entire coaching staff was outcoached tonight. OUTCOACHED BY FRICKEN LOVIE SMITH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I tip my hat to the Bears, as much as I hate them, they had a great game plan for the Vikes. As for Frazier and Company, they looked lost and had no answers for the Max protection, Forte, Johnny Knox and Hester. The Bears actually just wrote the blueprint on how to destroy the Vikings...Neutralize the pass rush with max protect, pick apart a weak secondary and linebackers or use your extra blockers to open huge holes in our small quick defense. On Defense, make McNabb beat you. It's that simple. Considering that we are 1-5, maybe I am giving the Bear's coaches much more credit, because it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see our weaknesses and exploit them.

SUCK FOR LUCK! SUCK FOR LUCK! SUCK FOR LUCK!

singersp
10-17-2011, 07:15 AM
I've figured it out. This team knows it can't win cause of piss poor coaching, shitty assed DL play and now we get ole "I can't miss Shortwell" missing fricken FG's.

Anyone else want to stand up and tell me I'm wrong on ole Shortwells ass needing to go? I dare ya. Anyone. comeon.

In Longwell's defense & thanx to the new NFL rule that puts the kickoff at the 35 instead of the 30, while almost all kickers are booting them deep into the endzone, Longwell did manage to kick one to the 15 YL and another to the 2YL which Hester ran back for a TD, making the game more exciting........

......oh wait!

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:15 AM
I challenge you to find ANY Kicker who has never missed a kick.

I dare ya. Anyone. Comeon.
7 of them haven't missed this year.....

2011 NFL Player Kicking Stats - National Football League - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/kicking/sort/fieldGoalPct)

singersp
10-17-2011, 07:19 AM
Originally Posted by Brewtal View Post
I'm done with watching untill McNabb is gone.


I said that the day he signed with the Vikes.

LIARS!

If Skipper Mcnabb starts next week, both of you will still be fixated to your TV sets watching the Vikings-Packers game.

Normal procedure for a Vikings fan.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:23 AM
In Longwell's defense & thanx to the new NFL rule that puts the kickoff at the 35 instead of the 30, while almost all kickers are booting them deep into the endzone, Longwell did manage to kick one to the 15 YL and another to the 2YL which Hester ran back for a TD, making the game more exciting........

......oh wait!
YEA, instead of kicking it to one side or the other, or squibbing it, he kicks it right down the middle with almost no hang time.

On a side note, I'm sorry if this rubs some of you the wrong way. As I said last night, my ire was not solely pointed at ole Shortwell. There was plenty of ire to go around......

Safety. No not our DB's......Sully hands Parea off to Hutch so he can engage the MLB and Hutch doesn't even know its happening? Who gets the blame for that one? C for a piss poor line call? QB for a piss poor adjustment? OL coach for not having the OL ready for that play?

Kluwe. He is one of our most consistent players on the team. Instead of helping, he hurts with piss poor kicking. Who is to blame for that? Kluwe? Coaches?

Tackling. Worst I've ever seen. Who is to blame for that? Players? Coaches?

In the end, I apologize for my drunken posts last night, especially to my good friend BBQ. Now you guys/gals know why I don't post during the game, but that one just rubbed me the wrong way.

I've watched alot of football in my life, at all levels, and that was by far the worst effort by a team, a coaching staff and an organization that I have ever seen.

On a side note, I loved the Ponder got in there and I look forward to the next time he comes in. Lets hope Leslie has enough balls to run him out there instead of running Dnabb out there again.

Again, my apolgoies for my nasty posts last night.

singersp
10-17-2011, 07:24 AM
Nothing can fix this team...nothing

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/singersp82759/Vikings%20Stuff/Cowher1.jpg

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:25 AM
Total Breakdown in all facets of the game. Offense, Defense and Special Teams.:irked:

Offense looked terrible, couldn't take advantage of 8-9 in the box. Could NOT block the pass rush and settled for short passes in the flat or underneath. McNabb, totally inaccurate. Cute play calling in fact played into the Bears strengths. I mean why run a Wildcat offense or a three tightend set when they have practically the whole team in the box? McNabb's fall down in the endzone was pathetic.:mad:

Deffense was MAN-HANDLED! :( Forte ran at will. No pressure from the D-Line. Our Blitz schemes were picked up and pretty obvious. Our secondary outright SUCKED. How the hell are guys so wide open when at times they are only sending two receivers out in patterns? Linebackers are not the personel needed for the Tampa Two.

Special Teams- Missed FG, Rotten punts, Kickoff return. Enough Said

All in all...yes the players play the game. But the entire coaching staff was outcoached tonight. OUTCOACHED BY FRICKEN LOVIE SMITH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I tip my hat to the Bears, as much as I hate them, they had a great game plan for the Vikes. As for Frazier and Company, they looked lost and had no answers for the Max protection, Forte, Johnny Knox and Hester. The Bears actually just wrote the blueprint on how to destroy the Vikings...Neutralize the pass rush with max protect, pick apart a weak secondary and linebackers or use your extra blockers to open huge holes in our small quick defense. On Defense, make McNabb beat you. It's that simple. Considering that we are 1-5, maybe I am giving the Bear's coaches much more credit, because it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see our weaknesses and exploit them.

SUCK FOR LUCK! SUCK FOR LUCK! SUCK FOR LUCK!
I agree in total with this post except for the SUCK for LUCK thing on the end.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:27 AM
Dear Leslie,

I have no faith in your abilities as head coach. Please prove me wrong.
I basically made that same plea to him when he was the D-coord last year. Guess what, he let me down, just like he is this year.

On a side note, we need to dig up that thread were you were saying how good the Lions were gonna be this year so we can poke the guys who disagree'd with you.

I warned them that you were the smartest football chick on the net. :bow:

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:31 AM
and watching that deep Hester TD pass where Griffin got so burnt he should have been arrested ( not to mention that ass clown Abdullah) .
Thats what happens when you play a C2 defense and have a DL that can't pressure the QB alone and elect to send the S' to help, he gets there late and the S' that is left is late getting over to help.

By the way, Griff didn't get burned, he did exactly what he is supposed to do in that play. Route the reciever to help. Again, when the help comes late, what ya gonna do?

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:35 AM
I said 3 weeks ago, McNabb gets 3 weeks to show me something, othwerwise I'm calling for Ponder.

LOL, way to step out there on the ledge my friend.

On a side note, you've been against Ponder since we drafted him. If you called for anyone its been Webb, who has shown us squat in that "Blazer" thing.

C Mac D
10-17-2011, 07:36 AM
I've figured it out. This team knows it can't win cause of piss poor coaching, shitty assed DL play and now we get ole "I can't miss Shortwell" missing fricken FG's.

Anyone else want to stand up and tell me I'm wrong on ole Shortwells ass needing to go? I dare ya. Anyone. comeon.

Yeah, because a field goal would have won it.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:37 AM
Oh, and they're keeping 8 in to block our DL, so I understand not getting sacks.

however, that means they only have 3 receivers out on routes. We should damn well be able to cover 3 receivers.
JA was single covered all night long. Sometimes they didn't even bother to put a blocker on him. Explain that one.

singersp
10-17-2011, 07:39 AM
I swear if Ponder doesn't throw 5 TDs then I will hate him forever and come up with an annoying nickname that I will forever refer to him as.


I really like Ponder. A lot. I love him.

Well? Which it going to be? You contradicted yourself on back to back posts.

Freya
10-17-2011, 07:39 AM
I basically made that same plea to him when he was the D-coord last year. Guess what, he let me down, just like he is this year.

On a side note, we need to dig up that thread were you were saying how good the Lions were gonna be this year so we can poke the guys who disagree'd with you.

I warned them that you were the smartest football chick on the net. :bow:

I wasn't impressed by his abilities as DC, either. :irked:

I have NO idea how to find old threads in this new format! LOL.................I would love to find those posts, though!

And thanks, Darlin! Let no one ever accuse you of exaggerating! ;)

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:41 AM
Yeah, because a field goal would have won it.
LOL, my brain wasn't working that way last night. Remember that cat CmacD who irritated everyone when he was calling for the Chillers head. That was me "kindof" last night.

All I saw was a team that wasn't ready to play or didn't want to play cause they knew they didn't have a good game plan.

On a side note, in my drunken stupor I hacked on other players before I did Shortwell. Why oh why is everyone missing that.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:42 AM
I wasn't impressed by his abilities as DC, either. :irked:

I have NO idea how to find old threads in this new format! LOL.................I would love to find those posts, though!

And thanks, Darlin! Let no one ever accuse you of exaggerating! ;)
I looked a little last week for ya. I think I will find some more time this week and hopefully I will dig them up.

singersp
10-17-2011, 07:46 AM
Considering he was running for his life .... he had a couple throws dropped....called back for holding.

Careful with the excuses. You wouldn't want to be labeled. :eek:

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 07:49 AM
Considering he was running for his life with only 5 healthy OL "men" and he had a couple throws dropped/called back for holding, I think he did pretty awesome. I think he has an extremely bright future in this league and I look forward to seeing him trash the pukers next week! SKOL VIKINGS!
I'm not so sure I would say that either of the QB's really had to run for their lives.

Don't get me wrong, the OL got their ass handed to them last night, but it made a hell of alot less mistakes than the DL did. Heck, Dnabb had a pretty decent pocket to throw from in most instance.

One time they even showed 10 in the box with 1 guy deep. That kindof happens when you don't put any WR's on the field. Absolutely maddening to see our coaches run offensive player sets out there that played into the Bores defense.

For the life of me I can't figure out why they didn't go 4 wides in an effort to expose the 2 new S's they had on the field.

Nope, lets run a Max Protect scheme out there that brings everyone down onto the line and then, instead of trying to throw, lets try to run out of it.

Silliness my friend. Absolute silliness.

singersp
10-17-2011, 07:55 AM
Liked seeing Ponder getting some playing time. He's got some great moves and is quite accurate on throws 15 yards or less. As feared however, his long ball leaves a lot to be desired.

First impression: As long as we never have to throw balls deep, he should be fine. Unfortunately, you won't win a lot of games without that threat.

C Mac D
10-17-2011, 07:56 AM
I really want to like Fraizer, but every single aspect of our team looked ill-prepared to play on Sunday.

Ponder looked better than I expected, looking forward to seeing more of him. If McNabb starts next week, I think we'll all have to admit to ourselves that Frazier doesn't know what he's doing.

singersp
10-17-2011, 08:01 AM
Yeah Ponder came in but did he put any points on the board? No.

+1

Exciting to watch, but the net result was still 0 points.

9-17 is nothing to write home about either.

singersp
10-17-2011, 08:07 AM
KLuwe, other than the 55 yarder, talk about some shitty punts.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 08:12 AM
Sadly, McNabb isn't close to our biggest issue tonight.

He's not lit it up, but he's not been that bad.

Our OL by far is the biggest concern. McNabb can't get time to make a throw, AP can't get a hole to run.

The blocking by "Ol' Sully" was absolutely fucking pathetic.


The BIGGEST concern for me, one we won't easily fix is coaching.

We had a promising drive, and we kill it by putting Webb in at QB.

I disagree with Marrdro, in that the wildcat or "blazer" isn't completely pointless. It has its uses, but NOT on 3rd and 4.

we were doing fine, keep doing what we're doing.

The playcalling is just trying to be too cute. Massive motions by TE's, playaction sack. Good job Musgrave. Just start with the basicss, we're not going to be faking anybody.
What? When he's not lit up? Wow. The announcers showed a couple of highlights of Dnabb (one in particular he had a very nice pocket, made 2 progressions and even had time to step forward -they tried to show how his leg cocks sideways -) and no one was even near him.

Did the OL have issues last night? Yes. Not saying that. The handoff between Sully and Hutch on the Saftey was absolutely terrible. Hutch didn't even know it was supposed to happen but by far the OL was not our biggest issue last night. I would put that on our DL's feet.

They couldn't even get pressure on the QB against a OL that gives up the most pressures let alone trying to stop the run. JA was handled (alone) by a G sent out to play T for goodness sake. One of his tackles came from being completely left unblocked which happend 5 times that I charted.

And to your Blazer point. Show me one instance were it has actually worked. I think we've seen just about enough of that crap.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 08:15 AM
+1

Exciting to watch, but the net result was still 0 points.

9-17 is nothing to write home about either.
Considering the situation........Not going to kick FG's, which he got them in range to try. Defense knew he was throwing on every play so all they had to do was defend against that.

Nothing to write home about perhaps, but I think he handled himself pretty well.

1. Decent pocket awareness.
2. Knew the plays and ran them.
3. Threw the ball out of bounds instead of getting sacked (something Dnabb failed to do atleast once last night).
4. Moved the ball with his legs if required.

All in all I think he was impressive considering he did exactly what the staff asked him to do.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 08:17 AM
I really want to like Fraizer, but every single aspect of our team looked ill-prepared to play on Sunday.

Ponder looked better than I expected, looking forward to seeing more of him. If McNabb starts next week, I think we'll all have to admit to ourselves that Frazier doesn't know what he's doing.
What worries me the most is we are getting worse, not better the longer he is in charge.

12purplepride28
10-17-2011, 08:17 AM
Well? Which it going to be? You contradicted yourself on back to back posts.

Please tell me you're joking. If you can't see the obvious presence of sarcasm in the first post than.... nvm, that's what I'd expect.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 08:20 AM
Liked seeing Ponder getting some playing time. He's got some great moves and is quite accurate on throws 15 yards or less. As feared however, his long ball leaves a lot to be desired.

First impression: As long as we never have to throw balls deep, he should be fine. Unfortunately, you won't win a lot of games without that threat.
Why don't you think he will be able to throw it deep?

He did twice last night. One was out of bounds, bad on him, the other was a nice touch pass to a spot that the WR didn't run to.

That has nothing to do with an inability to throw but rather not knowing what route the receiver was going to run to based on his sight read. As he and the receivers see game time action that part will come.

singersp
10-17-2011, 08:21 AM
Please tell me you're joking. If you can't see the obvious presence of sarcasm in the first post than.... nvm, that's what I'd expect.

Apparently you're the one that can't see it.

singersp
10-17-2011, 08:24 AM
Why don't you think he will be able to throw it deep?

He did twice last night. One was out of bounds, bad on him, the other was a nice touch pass to a spot that the WR didn't run to.

That has nothing to do with an inability to throw but rather not knowing what route the receiver was going to run to based on his sight read. As he and the receivers see game time action that part will come.

The accuracy wasn't there. On the other deep one there wasn't a WR within 10 yards of that ball.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 08:43 AM
The accuracy wasn't there. On the other deep one there wasn't a WR within 10 yards of that ball.
QB comes to the line. WR comes to the line. Sight read. QB thinks the X is gonna run a 8 route to a spot based on what the defense shows and throws it there even before the WR comes out of his stem. Reciever thinks the QB is gonna throw a 7 route and runs to that spot, making his break before the QB releases the ball.
Result = WR and Ball were 10 yards apart because of sight read between QB and WR, not an accuracy issue. Again, as I said, that will come as they get reps together.

The other one, that went out of bounds, I agree. That was an accuracy issue, but seriously, you dind't expect him to come right in and start hitting those did you?

Stonecoldet3
10-17-2011, 08:53 AM
QB comes to the line. WR comes to the line. Sight read. QB thinks the X is gonna run a 8 route to a spot based on what the defense shows and throws it there even before the WR comes out of his stem. Reciever thinks the QB is gonna throw a 7 route and runs to that spot, making his break before the QB releases the ball.
Result = WR and Ball were 10 yards apart because of sight read between QB and WR, not an accuracy issue. Again, as I said, that will come as they get reps together.

The other one, that went out of bounds, I agree. That was an accuracy issue, but seriously, you dind't expect him to come right in and start hitting those did you?

I thought I heard the announcers say that the intended receiver Michael Jenkins was bumped off his intended route by the defense as well.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 09:00 AM
I thought I heard the announcers say that the intended receiver Michael Jenkins was bumped off his intended route by the defense as well.
Excellent point my friend. I didn't have a camera angle to say yes or no. In the end, it wasn't an accuracy issue.

Besides, we all know you can't say a kid can't throw the ball deep with accuracy based on 2 throws last night. Heck, I almost seem to remember the announcer saying that we only had 2 passes over 20 yards coming into that game and Ponder had one last night. I haven't had time to check that stat, but it sure gives one hope if its true.

Marrdro
10-17-2011, 09:06 AM
OK, none have showed so I'm gonna ask.....Were are the Berrian haters today? Even ole Cam had a pretty nice catch last night.

purplehelmut
10-17-2011, 09:11 AM
The one bright spot everyone has neglected to mention is that BB doubled his output for the year! Never mind the third down pass that he dropped in the first quarter, you know, the one that was right on the numbers. My 10 year old grandson could have caught that one though. Just once I'd like to see Leslie (I'm sorry- not a good name for a HC) tear into someone's butt- heaven knows some need it. He must go home a absolutely kick the crap out of his dog. During the game he looks like he's waiting for a bus. This team is begging for the same treatment Leslie's dog gets.

battleaxe4cheese
10-17-2011, 09:34 AM
What the hell was that?
Maybe the worst game as a whole I've ever seen the Vikes play in my life, and I mean that. Breakdowns on almost every facet of the game.

The bears set up road blocks the whole night, daring us to throw and we still can't make it happen.
The O-line is one of the worst ever...last night I thought the bears O-line was supposed to be so bad, but they looked like all pros compared to our group. Cheese and rice!

Our Db's are horrible. Our safeties get hit in the hands with the ball and still can't come up with picks. Wow.

12purplepride28
10-17-2011, 09:38 AM
OK, none have showed so I'm gonna ask.....Were are the Berrian haters today? Even ole Cam had a pretty nice catch last night.

Most people haven't showed either Marrdro. We'll all be here before you know it. Berrian had that humiliating drop in the beginning, but after that, he made catches that any NFL WR should make. He's still a waste of a roster spot and I would much rather cut his ass and play Devin instead. Neither are that great, but I feel like Devin would put forth much more of an effort. I would love for Berrian to prove me wrong and start catchin some deep balls and creatin seperation and things that we should expect out of him. He's not off my shit list yet. But lets face it, we need to draft a WR.

i_bleed_purple
10-17-2011, 09:44 AM
OK, none have showed so I'm gonna ask.....Were are the Berrian haters today? Even ole Cam had a pretty nice catch last night.

LOL! Berrian had a couple nice catches but he also had a couple important drops that hit him right in the numbers.

So, they're here, they're just overshadowed by the McNabb, OL, DB and Fraizer haters.

12purplepride28
10-17-2011, 09:49 AM
LOL! Berrian had a couple nice catches but he also had a couple important drops that hit him right in the numbers.

So, they're here, they're just overshadowed by the McNabb, OL, DB and Fraizer haters.

Don't forget ol' shortwell.

battleaxe4cheese
10-17-2011, 09:56 AM
So...Berrian is up to 4 catches for the season? Nice. Well, since he's been open the whole year...according to him, he must be frustrated. Man we are not good at this point. I don't even know where to start. I'm embarrassed and pissed. What a joke. I have to go hit the pu:punch:nching bag.

El Vikingo
10-17-2011, 10:34 AM
Only 1 good thing comes to my mind I dont have Packers/Bears fan around making joke of me every Monday ....

well at least being up till 2:30 am was worthy http://www.chile-tuerca.com/foro/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

Traveling_Vike
10-17-2011, 01:30 PM
I waited until I had gone through every other thread first before posting my thoughts here. I wanted to make sure I was as depressed as possible, so that my usual optimism wouldn't get in the way.

I don't know why the Vikings hate prime time games so much. With the exception of the Eagles game last year, we have been horrendous in night games for a long time. It seems like we just shrink from the spotlight whenever it is focused on us.

We knew exactly what they were going to try to do against us, and just let them do it. The game plan was horrendous, playing right into their hands. Their max protect scheme worked, ours did not.

Going in, we knew that we could not let them get a big lead early, but that's exactly what happened. This game was over after the safety.

I didn't really expect too much out of our offense, but I really had higher expectations for the D. We had been looking much better there after last week, and it's not just because it was the Cardinals. We regressed into infancy on Sunday night. The Bears did not have a single three-and-out the whole night.

Offensive Line. Very offensive. And then we lose two starters and it gets even worse.

And then there is the Special Teams, which, to this point, had been one of the few true bright spots for us this year. Even they were terrible. Not just the Hester return, but missed tackles and nad angles all night long. Kluwe even had a bad night, and he's been our most consistently good player this season. Longwell missed what should have been an easy one, but I can forgive one miss. It happens to everyone. Also, I'm not sure but it looked to me like one of the defenders might have gotten a finger on it.

Ponder was only brought in because the game was out of hand, not because McNabb played himself out. Garbage time reps, nothing more. And while he looked halfway decent, he produced no points and showed us nothing we did not already know. Oh, wait there was one thing that really did impress me. That high snap was handled beautifully, and turned into a positive play.

Although the decision won't be announced until Wednesday, I'm fairly certain that McNabb will be back at starter again against the Pack. Ponder will likely get his first start against the Panthers.

McNabb was really not bad. Not great, but he had his best completion percentage of the year and three of the five incompletions were drops. He did look a bit slow to me, which I had not really noticed before. Still making pretty decent decisions and no turnovers. The one "almost" pick on that screen was not his fault, the guy was unblocked.

The guy I want to see more of is Rudolph. He has impressed me when he's been in there.

All in all, I am quite disgusted but still see some reason for hope. I am confident (although God only knows why) that this will be our worst performance of the year. Things will get better, although by how much is quite debatable.

bleedpurple
10-17-2011, 01:38 PM
it really doesn't matter.. we'll play spoiler later on in the year and are destined for a top-10 pick for sure... Hopefully top 5... the higher the better...

Purple Floyd
10-17-2011, 01:42 PM
Really we are looking at what we have for a team this season. A new coach who is quickly wearing out his welcome due to the uninspired play of the team and a roster that is just not deep enough to be competitive on a week to week basis.

As I said all season our record is going to be impacted by the number of injuries the team gets because we just cannot afford to lose any starters at any position. Right now we do have injuries at 2/5 of the positions on the OL and we have really added no depth to the roster to be able to maintain any level of consistency. On the defense we lost Winfield, Griffin is really showing he has lost a step or 2 with his 2 knee reconstructions, and there once again is no quality depth to pick up the slack and play at an acceptable level.

At some point we are just going to have to totally rebuild the complete depth of the roster and reload with younger, cheaper players and trend away from this concept of signing high dollar free agents in their prime. It is going to be painful to watch but if it leads to a deeper, more consistent team it will be worth it.

C Mac D
10-17-2011, 01:48 PM
At some point we are just going to have to totally rebuild the complete depth of the roster and reload with younger, cheaper players and trend away from this concept of signing high dollar free agents in their prime. It is going to be painful to watch but if it leads to a deeper, more consistent team it will be worth it.

At some point? We're already there... although, Spielman is not the person you want in charge of your team's rebuilding phase. Just look at the guy's resume, he was fired as GM of the 1-15 Dolphins and hasn't been able to draft one reliable OL (unless you want to make a reach for Loadhoalt... but it would be a reach) during his time with the Vikings.

jargomcfargo
10-17-2011, 02:02 PM
Really we are looking at what we have for a team this season. A new coach who is quickly wearing out his welcome due to the uninspired play of the team and a roster that is just not deep enough to be competitive on a week to week basis.

As I said all season our record is going to be impacted by the number of injuries the team gets because we just cannot afford to lose any starters at any position. Right now we do have injuries at 2/5 of the positions on the OL and we have really added no depth to the roster to be able to maintain any level of consistency. On the defense we lost Winfield, Griffin is really showing he has lost a step or 2 with his 2 knee reconstructions, and there once again is no quality depth to pick up the slack and play at an acceptable level.

At some point we are just going to have to totally rebuild the complete depth of the roster and reload with younger, cheaper players and trend away from this concept of signing high dollar free agents in their prime. It is going to be painful to watch but if it leads to a deeper, more consistent team it will be worth it.

Too many Vikings starters would be back ups on other teams, and some wouldn't be on the roster.
I blame Spielman primarily, but if Wilf knew what he was doing to begin with, and hired a GM with a track record of success, the team would be in better shape.

jargomcfargo
10-17-2011, 02:15 PM
I have a hard time accepting the dumb plays. Things like a fair catch on the 5 yard line, or McNabb taking a sack rather than throwing the ball away when he's outside the tackle box.

If it only happened once it's no big dea,l but it that isn't the case.

These guys are supposed to be pros but sometimes they play like it's Pop Warner.

They lost this game when they got off the plane in Chicago. Zygi should have made them ride the bus home!

I didn't expect them to win. I did expect them to show up.

Caine
10-17-2011, 06:34 PM
1: Fire Mark Wilf (And all the other Wilfs...they don't belong in the day-to-day phases of the franchise.

2: Fire Spielman...then bring in a REAL GM.

3: Tell Zygi to sit in the owners box and smile for the cameras. "The Triumverate of terror" will quietly die off, and Zygi will no longer make "Football" decisions.

4: Fire Leslie Frazier...and, by extension, the rest of the coaching staff. Let the Real GM bring in a REAL HC, who will bring in REAL Coaches who have a clue.

5: Cut Bernard Berrian. Call Randy Moss and SIGN HIM.

6: tell McNabb that if he skips one more pass in the direction of a receiver, he's benched.

7: Hire Marrdro and Caine to motivate the team. Here's how that works:

7A: Marrdro is allowed to tell the team everything that is wrong with them - from his point of view - including their mistreatment of Chiller and their failure to allow Jackson to be successful.

7B: Caine then tell the team that the next idiot that screws up on the field has to talk to MArrdro for an hour...each time they screw up.

7C: We will suddenly have 52 Pro-Bowlers on our roster.

and THAT is how we fix this.

Caine

singersp
10-18-2011, 06:45 AM
QB comes to the line. WR comes to the line. Sight read. QB thinks the X is gonna run a 8 route to a spot based on what the defense shows and throws it there even before the WR comes out of his stem. Reciever thinks the QB is gonna throw a 7 route and runs to that spot, making his break before the QB releases the ball.
Result = WR and Ball were 10 yards apart because of sight read between QB and WR, not an accuracy issue. Again, as I said, that will come as they get reps together.

The other one, that went out of bounds, I agree. That was an accuracy issue, but seriously, you dind't expect him to come right in and start hitting those did you?

You are only assuming that Ponder got the call wrong.

I didn't expect him to come in and play lights out, but when he missed on those long shots the fears I had of what many of the critics have been saying about his long ball, reared it's ugly head.

singersp
10-18-2011, 06:51 AM
What the hell was that?
Maybe the worst game as a whole I've ever seen the Vikes play in my life, and I mean that. Breakdowns on almost every facet of the game.

Really?

You must have missed the 41-0 Championship game against the Giants in the 2000 season. :/

Purple Floyd
10-18-2011, 07:02 AM
I think we looked better in the 41-0 game.

Marrdro
10-18-2011, 09:09 AM
I think we looked better in the 41-0 game.
I'm not one to listen to conspiracy theories, but I am still convinced that there was some truth behind the Giants listening in on our play calling.

I know that little rumor got squashed right away.

Marrdro
10-18-2011, 09:16 AM
You are only assuming that Ponder got the call wrong.

I didn't expect him to come in and play lights out, but when he missed on those long shots the fears I had of what many of the critics have been saying about his long ball, reared it's ugly head.
Even if I go ahead and lump the "Route" issue with the one that was thrown out of bounds, we are talking two dang throws. How in the heck can you, or anyone say that that is evidence that he can't throw a long ball?

He did it in college (except when he was playing with an injury) and he did it in preseason. I, for one don't worry about his "Deep" ball accuracy.

I worry more about reading defenses. That issue between Sully and Hutch on the Saftey in the end zone means someone isn't getting it right.

Sully new it was coming as he routed Paera to Hutch and shifted to URPUCKER like he was supposed to but Hutch never engaged and Dnabb fell to the ground like a little girl that was suprised by a monster.

OL coach and QB coach both need to pull their heads out of their asses and make sure that doens't happen anymore regardless of who is under Center.

Marrdro
10-18-2011, 09:19 AM
1: Fire Mark Wilf (And all the other Wilfs...they don't belong in the day-to-day phases of the franchise.

2: Fire Spielman...then bring in a REAL GM.

3: Tell Zygi to sit in the owners box and smile for the cameras. "The Triumverate of terror" will quietly die off, and Zygi will no longer make "Football" decisions.

4: Fire Leslie Frazier...and, by extension, the rest of the coaching staff. Let the Real GM bring in a REAL HC, who will bring in REAL Coaches who have a clue.

5: Cut Bernard Berrian. Call Randy Moss and SIGN HIM.

6: tell McNabb that if he skips one more pass in the direction of a receiver, he's benched.

7: Hire Marrdro and Caine to motivate the team. Here's how that works:

7A: Marrdro is allowed to tell the team everything that is wrong with them - from his point of view - including their mistreatment of Chiller and their failure to allow Jackson to be successful.

7B: Caine then tell the team that the next idiot that screws up on the field has to talk to MArrdro for an hour...each time they screw up.

7C: We will suddenly have 52 Pro-Bowlers on our roster.

and THAT is how we fix this.

Caine
Tully's extra bold Kona blend all over the monitor. Damn that was funny.:rofl:

On a side note, I agree with everything except the Moss thing. Cat is done. Move on.

Marrdro
10-18-2011, 09:21 AM
I have a hard time accepting the dumb plays. Things like a fair catch on the 5 yard line, or McNabb taking a sack rather than throwing the ball away when he's outside the tackle box.

If it only happened once it's no big dea,l but it that isn't the case.

These guys are supposed to be pros but sometimes they play like it's Pop Warner.

They lost this game when they got off the plane in Chicago. Zygi should have made them ride the bus home!

I didn't expect them to win. I did expect them to show up.
Two damn fine observations in there my friend, and the last line, ........spot on. Top shelf, top shelf indeed.

I just moved you up several columns on the main spreadsheets.

Marrdro
10-18-2011, 09:26 AM
LOL! Berrian had a couple nice catches but he also had a couple important drops that hit him right in the numbers.

So, they're here, they're just overshadowed by the McNabb, OL, DB and Fraizer haters.
I counted one drop that really should count as a drop and that was on a route Jenkins should be running.

Why in the hell does this staff continue to use Berrian as a inside/short to intermediate reciever? Especially when you had two new S's standing back there waiting to be exposed.

Should have seen alot of BB on one side (8 or 9 route) and Arosh on the other side (8 or 9 route) with Percy and a TE working the route BB ran.

Absolutely mind numbing, especially how we heard how this staff was gonna use the players to their strenghts. ...............

Marrdro
10-18-2011, 09:33 AM
Most people haven't showed either Marrdro. We'll all be here before you know it. Berrian had that humiliating drop in the beginning, but after that, he made catches that any NFL WR should make. He's still a waste of a roster spot and I would much rather cut his ass and play Devin instead. Neither are that great, but I feel like Devin would put forth much more of an effort. I would love for Berrian to prove me wrong and start catchin some deep balls and creatin seperation and things that we should expect out of him. He's not off my shit list yet. But lets face it, we need to draft a WR.
I agree with everything you just said. I will be the first one to say goodbye to BB when he leaves, but it really isn't his fault he isn't catching more deep passes.

As I pointed out the first few weeks, we just aren't throwing them and when they do they aren't catchable/over thrown for the most part.

As I just pointed out to our good friend Bleed, this staff is the worst staff I've seen in a very very very long time.

The montra was...."We are going to use the players to their strenghts" and "We are going to listen to the players"......

What has come of it? Berrian running routes for Percy instead of deep routes. 3 Tech DL trying to be 0 Tech DLmen. Greates RB to play the game sitting on the bench. OL best suited to run a ZB scheme running predominantly man up scheme.

In the end, most won't agree with me on those observations but you are starting to see players speaking out (something we never saw with the Chiller) about the staff........

BB saying he isn't being thrown to when he is open deep. And he's right.
JA saying the coach is wrong about the DL play.
K-dubb asking for Phat Pat (0 tech).

Can't wait to see what comes out next week.

tastywaves
10-18-2011, 12:49 PM
I agree with everything you just said. I will be the first one to say goodbye to BB when he leaves, but it really isn't his fault he isn't catching more deep passes.

As I pointed out the first few weeks, we just aren't throwing them and when they do they aren't catchable/over thrown for the most part.

As I just pointed out to our good friend Bleed, this staff is the worst staff I've seen in a very very very long time.

The montra was...."We are going to use the players to their strenghts" and "We are going to listen to the players"......

What has come of it? Berrian running routes for Percy instead of deep routes. 3 Tech DL trying to be 0 Tech DLmen. Greates RB to play the game sitting on the bench. OL best suited to run a ZB scheme running predominantly man up scheme.

In the end, most won't agree with me on those observations but you are starting to see players speaking out (something we never saw with the Chiller) about the staff........

BB saying he isn't being thrown to when he is open deep. And he's right.
JA saying the coach is wrong about the DL play.
K-dubb asking for Phat Pat (0 tech).

Can't wait to see what comes out next week.

When your 1-5, accusations are going to start flying.

Frazier is in way over his head and he has no one to lean on to help him out. Unproven OC, unproven DC, unproven FO,......

I really hope Zygi does the right thing in the offseason and brings in real football people to run this organization. As has been said by many others, until this is done, everything else is pretty insignificant.

Purple Floyd
10-18-2011, 01:05 PM
When your 1-5, accusations are going to start flying.

Frazier is in way over his head and he has no one to lean on to help him out. Unproven OC, unproven DC, unproven FO,......

I really hope Zygi does the right thing in the offseason and brings in real football people to run this organization. As has been said by many others, until this is done, everything else is pretty insignificant.


A very wise post.

tastywaves
10-18-2011, 01:24 PM
Two damn fine observations in there my friend, and the last line, ........spot on. Top shelf, top shelf indeed.

I just moved you up several columns on the main spreadsheets.

I would have guessed you had smegma all over your spreadsheets.

Purple Floyd
10-18-2011, 03:01 PM
I would have guessed you had smegma all over your spreadsheets.

Yeah, that one made me chuckle.

keystonevike
10-18-2011, 08:57 PM
When your 1-5, accusations are going to start flying.

Frazier is in way over his head and he has no one to lean on to help him out. Unproven OC, unproven DC, unproven FO,......

I really hope Zygi does the right thing in the offseason and brings in real football people to run this organization. As has been said by many others, until this is done, everything else is pretty insignificant.

+1
I am absolutely sick and tired of this team elevating unproven coaches to a position where they can operate at their highest level of incompetence. Not hating on Frazier, just pissed that this franchise has not hired a proven NFL head coach with a good track record when it had a vacancy for a long time. Jerry Burns, Dennis Green, Mike Tice, Brad Childress, and now Leslie Frazier. Only Green worked out over long haul but ended badly.
There are guys out there who could do a lot better with this team than our current crop of coaches (I stopped hoping for Cowher-he ain't leaving the studio) but Zygi has to go out and get them.
And speaking of Wilf, what the hell is he doing smiling and waving to the cameras when his team is getting trounced. Can't remember ever seeing something like that. Someone forgot to tell this genius that we were losing by 29, not winning. Sure hope he doesn't have LA on his mind.

Purple Floyd
10-18-2011, 09:25 PM
+1
I am absolutely sick and tired of this team elevating unproven coaches to a position where they can operate at their highest level of incompetence. Not hating on Frazier, just pissed that this franchise has not hired a proven NFL head coach with a good track record when it had a vacancy for a long time. Jerry Burns, Dennis Green, Mike Tice, Brad Childress, and now Leslie Frazier. Only Green worked out over long haul but ended badly.
There are guys out there who could do a lot better with this team than our current crop of coaches (I stopped hoping for Cowher-he ain't leaving the studio) but Zygi has to go out and get them.
And speaking of Wilf, what the hell is he doing smiling and waving to the cameras when his team is getting trounced. Can't remember ever seeing something like that. Someone forgot to tell this genius that we were losing by 29, not winning. Sure hope he doesn't have LA on his mind.

Not only that they have elevated those coaches but also that they let guys like Dungy, Billick and Tomlin leave and win a SB while we kept coaches who couldn't.

In the end I blame the coaches less than the ownership groups. If they spent half the time building the roster that they have passing the tin cup they could have had multiple rings already.

If they don't hire a real GM and build a solid FO they might just as well mail it in and bring Tice and Chilly both back.

Caine
10-19-2011, 06:03 AM
When your 1-5, accusations are going to start flying.

Frazier is in way over his head and he has no one to lean on to help him out. Unproven OC, unproven DC, unproven FO,......

I really hope Zygi does the right thing in the offseason and brings in real football people to run this organization. As has been said by many others, until this is done, everything else is pretty insignificant.

He didn't hire an "unproven" OC...he hired one who had FAILED miserably on two separate occasions. Once he quit after 4 games, and the other time he was simply "released" by Jacksonville after 2 seasons.

Too bad Leslie didn't have access to a computer so he could google Musgrave too....


oh.......wait....



Caine

singersp
10-19-2011, 07:03 AM
Even if I go ahead and lump the "Route" issue with the one that was thrown out of bounds, we are talking two dang throws. How in the heck can you, or anyone say that that is evidence that he can't throw a long ball?

All I said was that those were first impressions & when I saw them, it reminded me of what critics were saying before & after the draft.

If those two passes gave you a warm fuzzy & solidified in your mind that he won't have any problems floating the ball or missing his targets, then good for you.

I didn't get that impression.

tastywaves
10-19-2011, 09:31 AM
He didn't hire an "unproven" OC...he hired one who had FAILED miserably on two separate occasions. Once he quit after 4 games, and the other time he was simply "released" by Jacksonville after 2 seasons.

Too bad Leslie didn't have access to a computer so he could google Musgrave too....


oh.......wait....



Caine

Very true, I was unimpressed at his signing especially with the coupling of Frazier as head coach who was not going to be able to help him out.

Unproven as a successful OC still works though right. Proven as an unsuccessful OC would have been better stated, but it didn't flow as well :)

Yet another pattern as of late. Hire people that won't challenge you. Everyone is just happy to be promoted so no one pushes back on their respective management.