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Marrdro
10-11-2011, 12:59 PM
Very few football writers are as well connected as Sports Illustrated’s Jim Trotter. He’s been in the business for over 25 years, used to cover the San Diego Chargers for the Union-Tribune and has built up a national following the point he has over 40,000 followers on Twitter. When Trotter speaks, other writers listen and oftentimes formulate their own stories.
So when Trotter took to Twitter today he stated several revealing things on where Donovan McNabb is in his career. Those tweets went as followed…



Wow! That’s more than we’ve gotten in months from any writer in the country on where our quarterback is at.

Examining Jim Trotter's Tweets... And Why Joe Webb Should Play Before Christian Ponder - The Viking Age - A Minnesota Vikings Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more. (http://thevikingage.com/2011/10/10/examining-jim-trotters-tweets-and-why-joe-webb-should-play-before-christian-ponder/)

Marrdro
10-11-2011, 01:02 PM
To be clear.....I didn't write this and do not believe that Webb should start before Ponder. If Ponder isn't going to be the future we need to find out now and not later.

Even if running him out there means we watch some ugly football, the coaches should be able to figure out if he has any sort of future. By drafting Ponder at 12, its my guess that they already know that about Webb.

tastywaves
10-11-2011, 01:06 PM
To be clear.....I didn't write this and do not believe that Webb should start before Ponder. If Ponder isn't going to be the future we need to find out now and not later.

Even if running him out there means we watch some ugly football, the coaches should be able to figure out if he has any sort of future. By drafting Ponder at 12, its my guess that they already know that about Webb.

You sure about that?

Marrdro
10-11-2011, 01:12 PM
Free Head Exam: Minnesota Vikings

I honestly don't get what people expected from quarterback Donovan McNabb (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/1753/donovan-mcnabb) this season. He is generally a well-respected NFL citizen. So when the Vikings acquired him this summer from the Washington Redskins (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/wsh/washington-redskins), no football person was going to come out and say how far his career had plummeted. But the evidence was all there for the taking. The Washington Redskins were willing to give him away for a sixth-round draft pick and take their chances with Rex Grossman (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/4480/rex-grossman) and John Beck (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10484/john-beck). The Vikings were able to leverage McNabb into a contract worth $5.05 million, one that befits a top backup. And that's the way he has played so far this season: Like a veteran seat-warmer. McNabb has been inaccurate on short and deep passes and has mustered one victory in five games. None of this should be a big surprise, nor should coach Leslie Frazier's decision to retain him as his starter. Frazier wanted a veteran to start ahead of a rookie he didn't think would be ready to play. The NFL doesn't have enough good quarterbacks for a team to find a high-functioning one who can fit that description. Frazier got a seat-warmer who is playing like one.


Free Head Exam: Minnesota Vikings - NFC North Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/32416/free-head-exam-minnesota-vikings-21)

I think its important not to lose site of a few things........

1. Leslie said repeatedly he was ready to go into the season with Ponder and Webb. Something made him change his mind.

2. The staff pursued Orton then Thygpen before they went after Dnabb. I wonder why?

As I was with TJ and the Chiller, I'm not ready to lay all the blame for our QB woes on Leslie (yet). This is something that a organization does as a whole, not just the HC but what I am will to lay at his feet is his decision to keep going with Dnabb when all signs point to the fact that the guy just doesn't have it anymore.

I for one relented and got kindof excited to have him here. The two guys who helped sway me to that way of thinking are strangley absent from the site of late. I wonder why? :think:

Marrdro
10-11-2011, 01:17 PM
You sure about that?
You know me, I always lump alot of variables into my analysis and then over think it. For this one you have to take into account how we got to were we are now (see my comments associated with the second article I posted).

At some point the coaches/organization felt that Orton and Thygpen were better options. Orton I could agree, but I'm not sure why they went after Thygpen unless they knew that what we saw with Dnabb last year is what they would have to struggle with this year.

Then you have to look at the numbers of the contract. It sure won't be hard to go to Ponder after looking at those. Someone knew something and I think they knew it would take 4 or 5 weeks for Ponder to be ready.

Kindof looks like Dnabbs play agrees with me on that. He sure didn't seem to get to down on himself when he missed some very easy throws Sunday.

tastywaves
10-11-2011, 01:51 PM
You know me, I always lump alot of variables into my analysis and then over think it. For this one you have to take into account how we got to were we are now (see my comments associated with the second article I posted).

At some point the coaches/organization felt that Orton and Thygpen were better options. Orton I could agree, but I'm not sure why they went after Thygpen unless they knew that what we saw with Dnabb last year is what they would have to struggle with this year.

Then you have to look at the numbers of the contract. It sure won't be hard to go to Ponder after looking at those. Someone knew something and I think they knew it would take 4 or 5 weeks for Ponder to be ready.

Kindof looks like Dnabbs play agrees with me on that. He sure didn't seem to get to down on himself when he missed some very easy throws Sunday.

I'm not disagreeing with putting in Ponder, I'm just not so sure that are current staff (coaches and FO) can judge whether or not he is worthy of long term investment should he come out of the blocks sputtering. And I do know that our fans have no patience for learning on the job which unfortunately seems to have some sway with the boys in the big offices.

And as unspectacular as McNabb has been to date, he does have one big positive in that he limits turnovers. May not be the case with Ponder or Webb which may be Frazier's biggest concern.

jargomcfargo
10-11-2011, 01:56 PM
To be clear.....I didn't write this and do not believe that Webb should start before Ponder. If Ponder isn't going to be the future we need to find out now and not later.

Even if running him out there means we watch some ugly football, the coaches should be able to figure out if he has any sort of future. By drafting Ponder at 12, its my guess that they already know that about Webb.
Some say TJ wasn't given enough starts to be evaluated adequately, but I guess Webb was?

One point this writer is making I agree with.

This season is lost as far as playoffs are concerned but not lost as a developmental season. A season for young players to gain experience. There will be no detriment to letting sit the entire season. Webb has superior atheletic ability comparede to Ponder. (my words, not from the article).

Why not let Ponder sit a bit longer and see what Webb has now in his second year, maybe "catch lightening in a bottle"?

That will define Webb and you will have a chance to play Ponder at the end of the season, the off season, and training camp, before he starts next season., providing Webb doesn't work out.

My sense is it wont happen due to Leslie sticking his neck out for Ponder by reaching in the draft, in cooperation with Spielman, much as he stuck with Favre when we had no hope of winning, and as he's sticking with McNabb.

All we are saying, is give Webb a chance.

Marrdro
10-11-2011, 02:06 PM
Some say TJ wasn't given enough starts to be evaluated adequately, but I guess Webb was?

One point this writer is making I agree with.

This season is lost as far as playoffs are concerned but not lost as a developmental season. A season for young players to gain experience. There will be no detriment to letting sit the entire season. Webb has superior atheletic ability comparede to Ponder. (my words, not from the article).

Why not let Ponder sit a bit longer and see what Webb has now in his second year, maybe "catch lightening in a bottle"?

That will define Webb and you will have a chance to play Ponder at the end of the season, the off season, and training camp, before he starts next season., providing Webb doesn't work out.

My sense is it wont happen due to Leslie sticking his neck out for Ponder by reaching in the draft, in cooperation with Spielman, much as he stuck with Favre when we had no hope of winning, and as he's sticking with McNabb.

All we are saying, is give Webb a chance.
Couple of thoughts....

1. The HC doesn't draft anyone. He gives his input to the GM (or in our case the VP of Player Personnel) for what types of player he needs to run his scheme and the GM has scouts go out and find candidates that fit the bill. They then rank them with the coaching staff and the GM drafts the players.

In short, Leslie did not draft Ponder.

2. Good point on TJ, but you have to take it one step further, like TJ, Webb will take longer to develop than Ponder. My guess is that is why he (Ponder) surpassed Webb on the depth chart already.

In short, is Webb a great athlete? Yes, but so are alot of QB's that come out that are projected more as WR's or TE's than QB's. I think we will see Webb on the field, but it will be on the end of a Ponder throw and all of us will be happy to see it.

One quick question, and don't take it the wrong way, I just love to discuss things.......Why are you hesitant to run Ponder out there?

Marrdro
10-11-2011, 02:14 PM
I'm not disagreeing with putting in Ponder, I'm just not so sure that are current staff (coaches and FO) can judge whether or not he is worthy of long term investment should he come out of the blocks sputtering. And I do know that our fans have no patience for learning on the job which unfortunately seems to have some sway with the boys in the big offices.

And as unspectacular as McNabb has been to date, he does have one big positive in that he limits turnovers. May not be the case with Ponder or Webb which may be Frazier's biggest concern.
All good points, especially the ones related to the Staff and Fans.

I'm of a mind, mostly because Dnabb was our 3rd option, that this staff has a clue about QB's. I think they knew right up front what they were getting and it wasn't a long term solution. That is based on the 3 QB's they went after to front Ponder.

As to the fans, screw em. I haven't got on my soapbox for a some time, but sometimes our fanbase absolutely embarrasses me. Problem is, I'm of a mind that our Ownership group is also as dumb as our fan base and makes decisions based on of what they think those fans will say. Until that quits, and they start to make wise decisions, we will not get any better.

Until we see a GM brought in, that little issue won't be resolved and we probably will not see a championship.

jargomcfargo
10-11-2011, 02:26 PM
Couple of thoughts....

1. The HC doesn't draft anyone. He gives his input to the GM (or in our case the VP of Player Personnel) for what types of player he needs to run his scheme and the GM has scouts go out and find candidates that fit the bill. They then rank them with the coaching staff and the GM drafts the players.

In short, Leslie did not draft Ponder.

2. Good point on TJ, but you have to take it one step further, like TJ, Webb will take longer to develop than Ponder. My guess is that is why he (Ponder) surpassed Webb on the depth chart already.

In short, is Webb a great athlete? Yes, but so are alot of QB's that come out that are projected more as WR's or TE's than QB's. I think we will see Webb on the field, but it will be on the end of a Ponder throw and all of us will be happy to see it.

One quick question, and don't take it the wrong way, I just love to discuss things.......Why are you hesitant to run Ponder out there?

I'm not reluctant to run Ponder out there. In fact I expect it to happen after the bye.
I just feel we will never know if Webb could have been a great QB or not, once Ponder gets his start.
Will Webb be a great receiver? Doubtful.

BTW, I know how player aquisition works. If you think Frazier wasn't involved in the decision to take Ponder along with Spielman, you didn't see Fraziers reaction in the draft room when he was picked.

I know the VP of player personel is responsible, but it is utterly irresponsible to aquire a player without consulting the coaching staff. Let's call it a kind of a triad of authority type thing.
A collaboration as it were.

Marrdro
10-11-2011, 02:41 PM
Good stuff my friend. You keep bringing stuff like this and you will quickly climb all the spreadsheets of importance.

I'm not reluctant to run Ponder out there. In fact I expect it to happen after the bye.
I just feel we will never know if Webb could have been a great QB or not, once Ponder gets his start.

Regardless of who starts, Webb will get a chance if he has the talent. Might not be here but he will get a chance.


Will Webb be a great receiver? Doubtful.
I think he would make a damn fine one especially if he can get the WCO route tree down and can figure out how to adjust his stems based on what the defense is showing.


BTW, I know how player aquisition works. If you think Frazier wasn't involved in the decision to take Ponder along with Spielman, you didn't see Fraziers reaction in the draft room when he was picked.

I know the VP of player personel is responsible, but it is utterly irresponsible to aquire a player without consulting the coaching staff. Let's call it a kind of a triad of authority type thing.
A collaboration as it were.
I never said Leslie wasn't involved. What you got was my canned response to a poster who says the HC drafted someone.

Know that I know you understand the process (especially how our Triadthingamajib works) we can have more in depth discussions.

Another quick question.......Do you do mock drafts?

tastywaves
10-11-2011, 02:57 PM
Free Head Exam: Minnesota Vikings - NFC North Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/32416/free-head-exam-minnesota-vikings-21)

I think its important not to lose site of a few things........

1. Leslie said repeatedly he was ready to go into the season with Ponder and Webb. Something made him change his mind.

2. The staff pursued Orton then Thygpen before they went after Dnabb. I wonder why?

As I was with TJ and the Chiller, I'm not ready to lay all the blame for our QB woes on Leslie (yet). This is something that a organization does as a whole, not just the HC but what I am will to lay at his feet is his decision to keep going with Dnabb when all signs point to the fact that the guy just doesn't have it anymore.

I for one relented and got kindof excited to have him here. The two guys who helped sway me to that way of thinking are strangley absent from the site of late. I wonder why? :think:

One other thing, since you keep bringing it up and seem to base a lot of your opinions on it.

My memory tells me that Frazier wanted McNabb from the beginning. Yes the staff may have entertained other guys like Orton, Thigpen and even Hasselback, but I think Frazier was always locked on to McNabb. The statement where Frazier said he was ready to start the season with Webb or Ponder was just that, a statement. One that was made when his choices included Webb, Ponder and Bhomar. When McNabb became a real option for him, he was brought in to be a starter. I doubt Frazier's opinion of Webb and Ponder ever changed from the time of his statement to the signing of McNabb.

If McNabb goes down to injury (god forbid), I'm sure Leslie will have the same statement...We are prepared to go with Webb or Ponder as our starter, that is why they are on the team.

jmcdon00
10-12-2011, 11:40 AM
To be clear.....I didn't write this and do not believe that Webb should start before Ponder. If Ponder isn't going to be the future we need to find out now and not later.

Even if running him out there means we watch some ugly football, the coaches should be able to figure out if he has any sort of future. By drafting Ponder at 12, its my guess that they already know that about Webb.
Problem is we wont find out now. If Ponder goes in and struggles it will be because he's a rookie on a bad team. He'll still be our supposed QB of the future next year.

C Mac D
10-12-2011, 11:46 AM
Because Joe Webb is better right now. I've been saying this since week 1.

Someday people will learn to listen to what I'm saying, rather than arguing that Childress is a good coach or spending $20M+ on Favre was a good idea for the team.

Someday.

12purplepride28
10-12-2011, 12:59 PM
Good stuff my friend. You keep bringing stuff like this and you will quickly climb all the spreadsheets of importance.

Another quick question.......Do you do mock drafts?

Calm yourself Marrdro, you'll scare him away.

12purplepride28
10-12-2011, 01:05 PM
Because Joe Webb is better right now. I've been saying this since week 1.

Someday people will learn to listen to what I'm saying, rather than arguing that Childress is a good coach or spending $20M+ on Favre was a good idea for the team.

Someday.

I seem to remember you attacking me when I first joined the site for criticizing childress.

C Mac D
10-12-2011, 02:04 PM
I seem to remember you attacking me when I first joined the site for criticizing childress.

Haha... not saying it's not true, but I'd love to read that.

Caine and myself had to be the biggest Childress haters on the site. I'm the one who copyrighted "Fire Childress." No joke.

i_bleed_purple
10-12-2011, 03:30 PM
I know the VP of player personel is responsible, but it is utterly irresponsible to aquire a player without consulting the coaching staff. Let's call it a kind of a triad of authority type thing.
A collaboration as it were.

trust me, don't go into who does what with marrdro. He likes to think he is the authority of behind the scenes football knowledge.

We've gone down that road many times before.

Purple Floyd
10-12-2011, 03:39 PM
Haha... not saying it's not true, but I'd love to read that.

Caine and myself had to be the biggest Childress haters on the site. I'm the one who copyrighted "Fire Childress." No joke.

That one guy UffDaVikes was out in front of both of you. Too bad he isn't around any more.

i_bleed_purple
10-12-2011, 03:41 PM
That one guy UffDaVikes was out in front of both of you. Too bad he isn't around any more.
that guy was a joker.

jargomcfargo
10-12-2011, 04:10 PM
trust me, don't go into who does what with marrdro. He likes to think he is the authority of behind the scenes football knowledge.

We've gone down that road many times before.

Authority! Hope he's not the type who answers every single post in every thread and critiques posts ,especially those he agrees with !

Purple Floyd
10-12-2011, 06:30 PM
that guy was a joker.
Yeah he had a great sense of humor but he was also right on the money with his analysis of Chilly, TJ and the TOA.

i_bleed_purple
10-12-2011, 07:33 PM
Authority! Hope he's not the type who answers every single post in every thread and critiques posts ,especially those he agrees with !

Nah, he's Favre's #1 fan and tries to hide it behind an elaborate network of "discussion points".

Marrdro
10-13-2011, 09:01 AM
One other thing, since you keep bringing it up and seem to base a lot of your opinions on it.

My memory tells me that Frazier wanted McNabb from the beginning. Yes the staff may have entertained other guys like Orton, Thigpen and even Hasselback, but I think Frazier was always locked on to McNabb. The statement where Frazier said he was ready to start the season with Webb or Ponder was just that, a statement. One that was made when his choices included Webb, Ponder and Bhomar. When McNabb became a real option for him, he was brought in to be a starter. I doubt Frazier's opinion of Webb and Ponder ever changed from the time of his statement to the signing of McNabb.

If McNabb goes down to injury (god forbid), I'm sure Leslie will have the same statement...We are prepared to go with Webb or Ponder as our starter, that is why they are on the team.
All good points, however, I don't think I remember hearing Dnabb out of Leslies mouth as an option until after we heard about Orton and Thygpen. I don't remember Hass being mentioned by anyone other than a few rubes that didn't have any quotes from either Leslie or the staff.

Atleast for me, I'm going with the thought that a new HC, with a pretty talented team, was ready for that team to try it with a rookie QB (his words). How that changed, I assume, happened because the owner worrying about selling tickets instead of keeping out of the coaching business.

Traditionally a new coach usually has a year or two of a grace period with the fans and he should spend that time worrying about developing a QB instead of bucking an owner who wants to run a team by listening to fans.

In the end, I am 100% convinced that this team would have won atleast 1 more game with Ponder under center. Rationale is based on how well we did against teams in the first half as a bench mark for how talented this team is.

All Ponder would have had to do was make 5 to 10 throws that Dnabb failed to make and 1 more win would have been achievable IMHO. I bet the coaches are thinking the same thing not only now, but after drafting young Ponder, and before they landed a FA QB.

Marrdro
10-13-2011, 09:04 AM
Authority! Hope he's not the type who answers every single post in every thread and critiques posts ,especially those he agrees with !
I am an authority on nothing. Just a yutz with a keyboard who likes to talk football.

Our good friend I_bleed on the other hand, struggles with that a bit as he often times gets confused when it comes to following the discussion point.

Watch how many times I have to ask him "Where the hell did you get that from" or "I didn't say that"......

Marrdro
10-13-2011, 09:05 AM
That one guy UffDaVikes was out in front of both of you. Too bad he isn't around any more.
I struck Uffda from all spreadsheets of importance.

Purple Floyd
10-13-2011, 09:07 AM
I struck Uffda from all spreadsheets of importance.

OK that one made me chuckle my friend.

Marrdro
10-13-2011, 09:12 AM
Problem is we wont find out now. If Ponder goes in and struggles it will be because he's a rookie on a bad team. He'll still be our supposed QB of the future next year.
Two things....

1. This isn't a bad team. We have basically kicked teams asses, that most said we couldn't in the first half. You don't do that without talent. If the QB could have made a couple plays here and there we could have won each game. Again, can't do that without talent.

2. Dalton is on a worse team. You can still see what the potential is. Newton isn't on a team just overflowing with talent either and you can see the potential there as well.

Said it before and I'll say it many time more, if the kid has it, we will know. That doesn't mean he won't make mistakes or look bad at times. All players do (just look at the Noodle last year and Dnabb the last 2 years) but atleast with a youngster out there learning you know he will eventually get better. A old seasoned vet won't. He is what he is.

Worse part of all of this is, our players know it as well. Pretty soon, if the coaches don't do it, we will see them start to ask for Ponder.

Marrdro
10-13-2011, 09:15 AM
Because Joe Webb is better right now. I've been saying this since week 1.

Someday people will learn to listen to what I'm saying, rather than arguing that Childress is a good coach or spending $20M+ on Favre was a good idea for the team.

Someday.
LOL, you crack me up. Remind me about your thoughts on Bevell.......

Purple Floyd
10-13-2011, 09:18 AM
Two things....

1. This isn't a bad team. We have basically kicked teams asses, that most said we couldn't in the first half. You don't do that without talent. If the QB could have made a couple plays here and there we could have one each game. Again, can't do that without talent.

2. Dalton is on a worse team. You can still see what the potential is. Newton isn't on a team just overflowing with talent either and you can see the potential there as well.

Said it before and I'll say it many time more, if the kid has it, we will know. That doesn't mean he won't make mistakes or look bad at times. All players do (just look at the Noodle last year and Dnabb the last 2 years) but atleast with a youngster out there learning you know he will eventually get better. A old seasoned vet won't. He is what he is.

Worse part of all of this is, our players know it as well. Pretty soon, if the coaches don't do it, we will see them start to ask for Ponder.

The problem isn't the core talent, it is the depth of talent on the roster my friend. We have been getting dominant play from a few of our superstars and that has given the team a boost. But eventually too many teams have found spots in the roster that are vulnerable and they have taken advantage of those weaknesses and we cannot stop it.

The good thing is we have been very healthy this year with no significant losses on the roster to speak of. If we lose 3 or so key players we in no way have the depth to pull up a guy and maintain even what we have. Injuries are going to determine how we finish the season. If we stay healthy and other divisional teams have key injuries anything can happen. If we get beat up with injuries then we are dead in the water.

Marrdro
10-13-2011, 09:27 AM
The problem isn't the core talent, it is the depth of talent on the roster my friend. We have been getting dominant play from a few of our superstars and that has given the team a boost. But eventually too many teams have found spots in the roster that are vulnerable and they have taken advantage of those weaknesses and we cannot stop it.

The good thing is we have been very healthy this year with no significant losses on the roster to speak of. If we lose 3 or so key players we in no way have the depth to pull up a guy and maintain even what we have. Injuries are going to determine how we finish the season. If we stay healthy and other divisional teams have key injuries anything can happen. If we get beat up with injuries then we are dead in the water.
I will almost agree with you and only when we talk about depth at the DT position, but I won't be as harsh on the DT's as I was going into the season if they continue to play like they did (finally) against the Cards.

Not sure were else you could find a hole in our depth.....

DE's. I really like what we can do with Griff and Ballard.
OL. Don't rotate so I'm not sure how they can be exploited.
TE's. I think we have the best group of TE's in the league with one exception (Pats).
DB's. As I've said ALOT on here. These guys are fine and continue to play well. If/when the DL can get pressure they will get turnovers, just as they did in the Cards game.
WR's. Hard to tell at this point cause we don't have a QB that can consistently throw them the ball, but I still think this group is more than sufficient to run the scheme that Musgrove wants to do. Only ones who would disagree with that are the ones looking for deep passes every other throw.
RB's. Toby, Book, even add Percy in there. No problem.

Seriously, help me out here. I don't understand what your concerns are. Only real exploitation I've seen this year is when we used LB'rs (multiple) and DB's to help our DL get pressure. Teams exploited the gaps left by those players in the zones as they rushed.

To me thats a talent issue on the DL, that again, might have been solved by the return of Kevin and the increased use of Everson and Ballard in the middle as well.

Purple Floyd
10-13-2011, 09:54 AM
I will almost agree with you and only when we talk about depth at the DT position, but I won't be as harsh on the DT's as I was going into the season if they continue to play like they did (finally) against the Cards.

Not sure were else you could find a hole in our depth.....

DE's. I really like what we can do with Griff and Ballard.
OL. Don't rotate so I'm not sure how they can be exploited.
TE's. I think we have the best group of TE's in the league with one exception (Pats).
DB's. As I've said ALOT on here. These guys are fine and continue to play well. If/when the DL can get pressure they will get turnovers, just as they did in the Cards game.
WR's. Hard to tell at this point cause we don't have a QB that can consistently throw them the ball, but I still think this group is more than sufficient to run the scheme that Musgrove wants to do. Only ones who would disagree with that are the ones looking for deep passes every other throw.
RB's. Toby, Book, even add Percy in there. No problem.

Seriously, help me out here. I don't understand what your concerns are. Only real exploitation I've seen this year is when we used LB'rs (multiple) and DB's to help our DL get pressure. Teams exploited the gaps left by those players in the zones as they rushed.

To me thats a talent issue on the DL, that again, might have been solved by the return of Kevin and the increased use of Everson and Ballard in the middle as well.

Marty Marty Marty.

After the TE position we are deeper at DT than any other position on the field. You really need to learn to let go of your bias and look at things as they really are and not how you have convinced yourself they are.

We are deeper on the defensive line than we are at the following units:

Secondary
LB
OL
RB
WR

Marrdro
10-13-2011, 10:03 AM
Marty Marty Marty.

After the TE position we are deeper at DT than any other position on the field. You really need to learn to let go of your bias and look at things as they really are and not how you have convinced yourself they are.

We are deeper on the defensive line than we are at the following units:

Secondary
LB
OL
RB
WR
My opinion on depth at DT is related to what scheme we might or might not be running. If its still the C2, we don't have a 0 tech other than Remi (if you really count him). If we aren't running a C2, then yes, we have a glut of 3 tech's.

That has nothing to do with being biased. It has everything to do with wondering what the hell Leslie is doing.

On a side note, you didn't answer my question. You just basically listed every position except RB. How will that help convince me that our secondary needs help, especially after we saw them look great this weekend when the DL popped their heads out of their asses.:o

Purple Floyd
10-13-2011, 10:07 AM
. How will that help convince me that our secondary needs help, especially after we saw them look great this weekend when the DL popped their heads out of their asses.:o

It won't and to be honest with you if the entire secondary showed up in the comm closet and said it directly to you my guess is you would take the opportunity to show them a spreadsheet and tell them they were wrong.

jargomcfargo
10-13-2011, 11:24 AM
I struck Uffda from all spreadsheets of importance.
Quick question, do you have any spreadsheets with smegma on them?

"It has everything to do with wondering what the hell Leslie is doing."

Leslie decided to give up a little run stopping capability at the DT spot to gain a little more pass rush/penetration in the middle.For one thing, guys that play the 0 technique well are hard to find.

Leslie is rebuilding this team and going a different direction. I really like Griffen next to KW with the rotation of Ballard and Guion.

We have our depth has been thin for awhile, something I blame on Spielman for wasting draft picks and over paying free agents.

But I like what I'm seeing out of the following young players.
Cook
Griffen
Abdullah
Rudolph
Asher Allen (didn't think much of him last year but he has improved this year)
Ballard
Toby
Booker
Harvin ( always thought he was great but he has become a very good blocker this year)
Erin (had a rough start but seems to be improving a bit)
Loadholt ( had a bad season last year but is a little better this year)
Jenkins (has a definate role as a sure handed tall posession receiver on this team).

So we need a better QB and this team has the capacity to improve even more.

At 1-4 people may not see it, but this team is learning and improving and will continue to get better as the coaching staff also learns and improves.

It's a rebuild. Takes a little time.

C Mac D
10-13-2011, 12:05 PM
LOL, you crack me up. Remind me about your thoughts on Bevell.......

Do I have thoughts on Bevell? I don't remember saying much about him... but I think he's living off Favre's legacy wherever he goes and is a mediocre offensive coordinator AT BEST. I'm sure I was calling for him to be fired more than once though.

I'm much more mature now though.

mountainviking
10-14-2011, 11:44 AM
The Vikings are 13th in sacks allowed and (other than DET) haven't even faced a top DL yet...its probably going to get worse! You throw Ponder in there and he will get beat up, beat down, and turn the ball over 2-3 times more than McNabb has so far. As inaccurate as McNabb has been, I don't want Ponder's career to start now behind this line with these WRs and no offseason to learn the scheme.

Webb is one hell of an athlete and showed the ability to be a good game manager on the road vs. the Eagles last year. I'd like to see him start getting 5-10 plays a game as a sort of "Wildcat" QB...lets call it our "Berserker Package!" ;) SKOL!!!!!!

Seriously tho, don't you just love the idea of him running the option with AP? Send Harvin and Aromashodu deep to draw the CBs and hopefully a S...if they pile up for AP, Webb cuts inside for at least a few yards and if he breaks loose, has the speed to take it all the way home! Most of the time, he just hands it off to AP, keeping our focus on our running game.

no? What do ya think???