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singersp
10-05-2011, 07:19 AM
Vikings' Frazier takes a bit of advice from Bud Grant

“I was walking down the hall here at Winter Park,” Frazier said. “And Bud was in his office. I stuck my head in to say hello, and he said, ‘Hey, come on in, sit down, let’s talk.’”

Vikings' Frazier takes a bit of advice from Bud Grant | The Republic (http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/FBN-VIKINGS_6224097/FBN-VIKINGS_6224097/)

singersp
10-05-2011, 07:30 AM
Grant politely declined an interview request for this story. It’s not his style to upstage current coaches.

Bud is & always has been a class act.

If you've ever met him or talked to him, he has this aura that surrounds him that leaves you feeling awe struck & the legendary greatness he emits.

C Mac D
10-05-2011, 08:12 AM
Grant has how many Super Bowl rings?

12purplepride28
10-05-2011, 08:52 AM
Grant has how many Super Bowl rings?

Exactly. And it's not like he never had the talent, he went to 4 of them and was outcoached in a several and lost all of them. The greatest coach in Vikings history is like the least smelly turd.

shockzilla
10-05-2011, 08:56 AM
Wow, you guys have no sense of reverence or Vikings history, do you? Just because Bud Grant never won a Super Bowl doesn't mean he wasn't a great coach. Ask all the hundreds of players who played for him.

C Mac D
10-05-2011, 09:01 AM
Wow, you guys have no sense of reverence or Vikings history, do you? Just because Bud Grant never won a Super Bowl doesn't mean he wasn't a great coach. Ask all the hundreds of players who played for him.

I understand that and am happy he has a lot of respect from his players. Personally, I think the measure of success for an NFL coach is a Super Bowl ring.

Honest question: Do you think Grant was a better coach than Marv Levy?

C Mac D
10-05-2011, 09:03 AM
The greatest coach in Vikings history is like the least smelly turd.

I do not agree with this comment.

I like Grant, but not sure being a good coach 30-40 years ago gives him the right to walk into the current coach's office and start giving him advice.

Either way, Grant is a class act and shouldn't be referred to as a turd.

singersp
10-05-2011, 09:12 AM
Wow, you guys have no sense of reverence or Vikings history, do you? Just because Bud Grant never won a Super Bowl doesn't mean he wasn't a great coach. Ask all the hundreds of players who played for him.

I guess they feel Tarkenton was not great because he didn't win a SB.

I guess they feel the PPE were not great because they didn't win a SB.

I guess they feel Warren Moon & Dan Marino weren't great QB's because they didn't win a SB.

C Mac D
10-05-2011, 09:25 AM
I guess they feel Tarkenton was not great because he didn't win a SB.

I guess they feel the PPE were not great because they didn't win a SB.

I guess they feel Warren Moon & Dan Marino weren't great QB's because they didn't win a SB.

Great individual players, yes. Great teams? Eh... very good teams. Great teams win championships.

I realize that's tough to hear as a Vikings fan, but it's true.

shockzilla
10-05-2011, 09:28 AM
I understand that and am happy he has a lot of respect from his players. Personally, I think the measure of success for an NFL coach is a Super Bowl ring.

Honest question: Do you think Grant was a better coach than Marv Levy?

Hard to say, that's a really good question. Slightly different eras, of course. I don't think you can really say. I guess if one or the other had won a Super Bowl, you would say they were better. What's your opinion on that question?

ConnecticutViking
10-05-2011, 09:29 AM
Lay off of Bud. The Dude is in the Hall of Fame. Great coach! Class act, tough as nails.

singersp
10-05-2011, 09:29 AM
Wow, you guys have no sense of reverence or Vikings history, do you? Just because Bud Grant never won a Super Bowl doesn't mean he wasn't a great coach. Ask all the hundreds of players who played for him.

I'm guessing they weren't even born yet when Grant coached.

Here's more coaches they don't think are great;

Andy Reid
Dan Reeves
Marty Schottenheimer

shockzilla
10-05-2011, 09:33 AM
I do not agree with this comment.

I like Grant, but not sure being a good coach 30-40 years ago gives him the right to walk into the current coach's office and start giving him advice.

Either way, Grant is a class act and shouldn't be referred to as a turd.

You clearly didn't read the article right - Frazier walked by Grant's office, Grant didn't walk into Frazier's office. BIG difference there. Grant was offering advice, and Frazier obviously knew enough that when Bud Grant offers to give you advice, you listen.

But I totally understand your point of view.

C Mac D
10-05-2011, 09:38 AM
Hard to say, that's a really good question. Slightly different eras, of course. I don't think you can really say. I guess if one or the other had won a Super Bowl, you would say they were better. What's your opinion on that question?

I really don't know. Sorta look at them the same way, they could never get the "Big One."

Obviously as a Vikings fan, I've always thought Grant was better than Levy. But as I step back and look at the question objectively, it's difficult to say. I'd probably still say Grant because of the way his former players talk about him. Marv Levy's name just doesn't bring the same respect it seems.

C Mac D
10-05-2011, 09:40 AM
You clearly didn't read the article right - Frazier walked by Grant's office, Grant didn't walk into Frazier's office. BIG difference there. Grant was offering advice, and Frazier obviously knew enough that when Bud Grant offers to give you advice, you listen.

But I totally understand your point of view.


You're very right, I did read that incorrectly.

Which raises the question, why does Bud Grant have an office at Winter Park?

Purple Floyd
10-05-2011, 10:11 AM
I thought he was going to tell Leslie not to show so much emotion on the sidelines.....

josdin00
10-05-2011, 10:11 AM
You're very right, I did read that incorrectly.

Which raises the question, why does Bud Grant have an office at Winter Park?

Minnesota Vikings | Front Office Staff (http://www.vikings.com/team/front-office.html)

Bud Grant is listed as a consultant

shockzilla
10-05-2011, 10:11 AM
You're very right, I did read that incorrectly.

Which raises the question, why does Bud Grant have an office at Winter Park?

I guess the organization thinks that much of him. It would be like the Packers having an office for Lombardi, of course if he were retired and still alive. Bud represents the greatest era in Vikings history, and I guess he wants to remain tied to the game and the team.

12purplepride28
10-05-2011, 10:56 AM
Wow, you guys have no sense of reverence or Vikings history, do you? Just because Bud Grant never won a Super Bowl doesn't mean he wasn't a great coach. Ask all the hundreds of players who played for him.

Reverence? Where is it deserved? I know Grant was a great coach, but I'm sure he would rather be viewed as an average coach who won a couple super bowls. We have had some excellent players and some good-great coaches, but if you want your history to be "revered" you better win some super bowls.

12purplepride28
10-05-2011, 10:59 AM
I'm guessing they weren't even born yet when Grant coached.

Here's more coaches they don't think are great;

Andy Reid
Dan Reeves
Marty Schottenheimer

Nope, I wasn't born. I know Bud is the greatest coach in Vikings history, and he is a HOFer and all that jazz, but that doesn't change the fact that he never won a super bowl. You can be the an amazing coach but if you don't win a SB, it's hard to look at your time as a coach as a success.

Freya
10-05-2011, 11:01 AM
Reverence? Where is it deserved? I know Grant was a great coach, but I'm sure he would rather be viewed as an average coach who won a couple super bowls. We have had some excellent players and some good-great coaches, but if you want your history to be "revered" you better win some super bowls.

You may consider my expectations adjusted after reading this post. :)

Purple Floyd
10-05-2011, 11:04 AM
It seems that since he has been gone nearly 3 decades that it might be time for the organization to build a new "glory days" rather than just relying on the fading memories of the old ones.

12purplepride28
10-05-2011, 11:06 AM
You may consider my expectations adjusted after reading this post. :)

I'm not sure if that's a jab or a compliment.

But considering the source, I will assume the best. And thank you.

C Mac D
10-05-2011, 12:26 PM
It seems that since he has been gone nearly 3 decades that it might be time for the organization to build a new "glory days" rather than just relying on the fading memories of the old ones.

Exactly. This is pretty much what I'm saying. It's depressing that the Vikings "Glory Days" resulted in zero Super Bowls.

Everyone takes Bud Grant's opinion as scripture... why?

AngloVike
10-05-2011, 03:09 PM
Exactly. This is pretty much what I'm saying. It's depressing that the Vikings "Glory Days" resulted in zero Super Bowls.

Everyone takes Bud Grant's opinion as scripture... why?

maybe due to the fact that all of the players that played for him have nothing but good things to say about him, even though the way coaches operated were far more 'harsher' than the way coaches work today. I can't say I've ever heard players or even fans be like that about coaches since - everyone has something to say about Dennis Green, Mike Tice, Childress and even Frazier.
Maybe the fact that the Vikes organisation went back to him to coach again after the Les Steckel debacle indicates the respect that he was held in by the organisation then and since.
How about that some people get respect even though they don't win the ultimate prize but conduct themselves in such a way that others have such an opinion of them.
When you get older you'll realise that fact but it will come eventually.

shockzilla
10-05-2011, 03:39 PM
maybe due to the fact that all of the players that played for him have nothing but good things to say about him, even though the way coaches operated were far more 'harsher' than the way coaches work today. I can't say I've ever heard players or even fans be like that about coaches since - everyone has something to say about Dennis Green, Mike Tice, Childress and even Frazier.
Maybe the fact that the Vikes organization went back to him to coach again after the Les Steckel debacle indicates the respect that he was held in by the organization then and since.
How about that some people get respect even though they don't win the ultimate prize but conduct themselves in such a way that others have such an opinion of them.
When you get older you'll realize that fact but it will come eventually.

Amen!!! Preach it brother!!!

MulletMullitia
10-05-2011, 05:39 PM
Lol crazy that this article comes from my hometown newspaper in Columbus Indiana. So random. Nothing but Colts homers around those parts. I know it's from the Trib, I just don't know why the Republic published it, or how Singer found it. Anyways, back on topic. I absolutely love this article. It's saying the exact same things that I've been saying for a couple weeks about Leslie. We have to support him! This is his first full season as a Head Coach in the NFL. He is going have some stuggles. His sample size isn't even close to big enough to start calling for his head. Just overreaction by frustrated fans. I do finally agree to put McNabb on the bench, but I understand keeping him in the game as well. First of all, we would have to cut him if we benched him. Second of all, our first round pick would get killed behind this offensive line. We will give Ponder his chance this season, but it's not going to be this early. He will probably start the second half of the season, or maybe less.

C Mac D
10-05-2011, 05:45 PM
maybe due to the fact that all of the players that played for him have nothing but good things to say about him, even though the way coaches operated were far more 'harsher' than the way coaches work today. I can't say I've ever heard players or even fans be like that about coaches since - everyone has something to say about Dennis Green, Mike Tice, Childress and even Frazier.
Maybe the fact that the Vikes organisation went back to him to coach again after the Les Steckel debacle indicates the respect that he was held in by the organisation then and since.
How about that some people get respect even though they don't win the ultimate prize but conduct themselves in such a way that others have such an opinion of them.
When you get older you'll realise that fact but it will come eventually.

Either that, or you've learned to settle for (and even glorify) mediocrity.

(I might be young, but I know how to spell "realize")

jessejames09
10-05-2011, 06:39 PM
Article kind of helps me see Les in a better light. I like his personal moves. I think keeping Sauce Shank and Rudolph, and no FB was smart, almost Belichick like. We can keep bring out the same personal but we can line up so many different ways.

However the coaches in game decisions haven't been great, we've lost 4 very close games. Also it's not like this is Frazier's first rodeo so to speak, he had last year to learn from..

Traveling_Vike
10-05-2011, 11:54 PM
(I might be young, but I know how to spell "realize")

Apparently not. You seem to have forgotten that Anglo is not from the USA.

Mr Anderson
10-06-2011, 01:09 AM
apparently not. You seem to have forgotten that anglo is not from the usa.
love it or leave it!

(I really can't post in all caps?)

AngloVike
10-06-2011, 04:39 AM
Either that, or you've learned to settle for (and even glorify) mediocrity.

(I might be young, but I know how to spell "realize")

in your part of the world maybe but not here.

singersp
10-06-2011, 07:37 AM
Great individual players, yes. Great teams? Eh... very good teams. Great teams win championships.

I realize that's tough to hear as a Vikings fan, but it's true.

Wait a minute! Which is it?

A post ago you said great coaches win Super Bowls.

Now you're saying great teams win championships.

You are contradicting your own self. LOL!

By your own admission, you said the Vikings were a very good team back then.

So, again, by your own admission, you stated that very good team had great individual players.

So, if that's possible, wouldn't it make sense that a very good team could have a great coach?

singersp
10-06-2011, 07:41 AM
Minnesota Vikings | Front Office Staff (http://www.vikings.com/team/front-office.html)

Bud Grant is listed as a consultant

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't consultants give advice? ;)

singersp
10-06-2011, 07:46 AM
It would be like the Packers having an office for Lombardi, of course if he were retired and still alive.

If Lombardi was retired and still alive, the Redskins would probably be the one that had an office for him. Remember, Lombardi had his fill of GB & went to go coach the Redskins. :)

singersp
10-06-2011, 07:51 AM
Lol crazy that this article comes from my hometown newspaper in Columbus Indiana. So random. Nothing but Colts homers around those parts. I know it's from the Trib, I just don't know why the Republic published it, or how Singer found it.

Because I'm the Newshound! Everyone knows that.

singersp
10-06-2011, 08:03 AM
Nope, I wasn't born. I know Bud is the greatest coach in Vikings history, and he is a HOFer and all that jazz, but that doesn't change the fact that he never won a super bowl. You can be the an amazing coach but if you don't win a SB, it's hard to look at your time as a coach as a success.

I wonder if Cris Carter looks back on his career as unsuccessful because he doesn't have a ring?

I wonder if Barry Sanders looks back on his career as unsuccessful because he doesn't have a ring?

Quick question; Do you think the HOF enshrines unsuccessful coaches & players?

Good thing the HOF committee doesn't only enshrine coaches & players with SB rings, although there are a few shallow minded members who think that way.

Great coaches don't win SB's all by themselves, they need a team that can get it done as well.

singersp
10-06-2011, 08:13 AM
Article kind of helps me see Les in a better light. I like his personal moves. I think keeping Sauce Shank and Rudolph, and no FB was smart, almost Belichick like.

You do realize, don't you. that Frazier brought up a FB from the practice squad don't you? ;)

kspurplepride
10-06-2011, 01:18 PM
Bud Grants losses were to:

Hank Stram
Don Shula
John Madden
Chuck Noll

I'd say that is a pretty legit group of coaches to be losing to... the only one not in the Hall is Hank Stram

12purplepride28
10-06-2011, 01:54 PM
I wonder if Cris Carter looks back on his career as unsuccessful because he doesn't have a ring?

I wonder if Barry Sanders looks back on his career as unsuccessful because he doesn't have a ring?

Quick question; Do you think the HOF enshrines unsuccessful coaches & players?

Good thing the HOF committee doesn't only enshrine coaches & players with SB rings, although there are a few shallow minded members who think that way.

Great coaches don't win SB's all by themselves, they need a team that can get it done as well.

Do you think that they, even with all their "wonderful" individual (in a team sport) achievements, would trade that for an average-above average career with a couple rings?

Traveling_Vike
10-06-2011, 02:00 PM
Bud Grants losses were to:

Hank Stram
Don Shula
John Madden
Chuck Noll

I'd say that is a pretty legit group of coaches to be losing to... the only one not in the Hall is Hank Stram

And he arguably should be, and may yet be.

marshallvike
10-06-2011, 02:40 PM
I honestly never thought I would see the day when Viking fans were bad rapping Bud Grant.

jargomcfargo
10-06-2011, 02:52 PM
Nope, I wasn't born. I know Bud is the greatest coach in Vikings history, and he is a HOFer and all that jazz, but that doesn't change the fact that he never won a super bowl. You can be the an amazing coach but if you don't win a SB, it's hard to look at your time as a coach as a success.

You've never seen one single game coached by Grant nor one single player he coached play. You have no experience to base yoiur opinion upon.
You disrespect him by calling him a HOFer and all that jazz, simply because he has failed to win a superbowl.

Are your expectations higher for others than for yourself?

If not, why did you chose to be a fan of a team that has won no superbowls in 51 years of existance?

Just curious.

shockzilla
10-06-2011, 03:03 PM
You've never seen one single game coached by Grant nor one single player he coached play. You have no experience to base yoiur opinion upon.
You disrespect him by calling him a HOFer and all that jazz, simply because he has failed to win a superbowl.

Are your expectations higher for others than for yourself?

If not, why did you chose to be a fan of a team that has won no superbowls in 51 years of existance?

Just curious.

Dude, very good points! Also, awesome username!!!

Zeus
10-06-2011, 03:36 PM
Dude, very good points! Also, awesome username!!!

You're a fan of smegma, Shock?

=Z=

C Mac D
10-06-2011, 03:43 PM
Wait a minute! Which is it?

A post ago you said great coaches win Super Bowls.

Now you're saying great teams win championships.

You are contradicting your own self. LOL!

By your own admission, you said the Vikings were a very good team back then.

So, again, by your own admission, you stated that very good team had great individual players.

So, if that's possible, wouldn't it make sense that a very good team could have a great coach?

That's actually not contradicting at all. Great teams have great coaches. That's how it works.

i_bleed_purple
10-06-2011, 03:57 PM
That's actually not contradicting at all. Great teams have great coaches. That's how it works.

Great teams CAN have great coaches, but great coaches don't always have great teams.

C Mac D
10-06-2011, 04:16 PM
Great teams CAN have great coaches, but great coaches don't always have great teams.

True... I also thought when I typed this, "Was Brian Billick a 'great' coach?" Which I don't think he was. Although, I don't think the Ravens were that great either, horrible offense... but LEGENDARY defense.

Considering Billick was supposedly an offensive mind, I don't really give him the credit for that.

So, I am wrong.

Caine
10-06-2011, 04:19 PM
I think that every player or Coach who has failed to win a Superbowl looks back with a certain amount of regret. There is always that nagging question of "Could I have done more?" that remains unanswered.

Marino, Carter, Sanders...great players who failed to secure a championship. Grant, Reeves, and Levy are iconic coaches who came up short. (Shottenheimer was atrocious in the Play-offs, no way I'd call him "Great").

The common denominator here - as much as it pains me to say - is that they FAILED to win when it most mattered.

Does that mean their careers were meaningless, or that they were failures themselves? No. But - and here's where it REALLY hurts because I'm about to agree with C Mac - since we judge success by Superbowl wins, all of the aforementioned players and coaches didn't succeed.

They might be "great", but there was always someone greater.

Of course, Superbowl wins alone don't make one great. I'll never think Barry Switzer was a great coach. Or Brian Billick...yet they won Superbowls. And I'll never think Trent Dilfer or Eli Manning are "Great" QB's...but both have rings.

It all comes back to your judging criteria.

IMO, Grant was a great HC. He built some phenomenal teams over his career, but he fell short each time he had the chance to win it all...something that lesser men have achieved. So, yes, I think that slightly mars his accomplishments. But he was still great.

Caine

CbusVikefan
10-06-2011, 04:28 PM
Holey Smokes!!!! Viking Blasphemy!!!!
Not only did Bud Grant coach some of the greatest Vikings, but some of the greatest players to ever play the game of football. Unfortunately when the Vikings went to the Super Bowls that they did, they faced some of the greatest teams ever to be assembled. Steelers, Chiefs, Dolphins and the Raiders. Let me reel off some names that they went up against. Mean Joe Green, Lynn Swann, Bradshaw, Bob Griese, Larrry Czonka, Paul Warfield, Lenny Dawson. There are many many more that are HOF'ers from these teams. How about your favorite Vikings? Think PH is as good as CC? Trading career stats for a Super Bowl? Too many thing have to go RIGHT to win a SB. And judging someone on what they didnt do is just plain silly. DId you ever see John Randle play???? If you didnt enjoy that on Sundays, you're not a fan of football or the Vikings. And to call Bud Grant "the least smelly turd" should get you banned from here, but I guess freedom of speech is ours to own. I am ashamed for you. Oh yea, there were some NFC Championship games that the VIkings went up against in the Bud Grant era, some of the names on those teams, Roger Staubach, Merlin Olsen, there are hof'ers everywhere. I guess History was'nt one of your favorite subjects. That's not PurplePride at all. Purple Pride IS History!!!!!!!!!

slavinator
10-06-2011, 05:17 PM
Opinions are like ass$%#.........everyone has one. This one strikes a chord with me. Bud Grant was/is the greatest coach the Vikes have EVER had. He didnt win the SB, and that sucks, no doubt. SO if the criteria is hardware only then CMac and Caine are right, but id rather have Bud, or Marv Levy over Barry Switzer types anyday. Its pretty sad that our season is to the point where we are poking holes in a true MN legend.

As to the current issue, Leslie sought out Bud, just as other coaches have in the past.

C Mac D
10-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Holey Smokes!!!! Viking Blasphemy!!!!
Not only did Bud Grant coach some of the greatest Vikings, but some of the greatest players to ever play the game of football. Unfortunately when the Vikings went to the Super Bowls that they did, they faced some of the greatest teams ever to be assembled. Steelers, Chiefs, Dolphins and the Raiders. Let me reel off some names that they went up against. Mean Joe Green, Lynn Swann, Bradshaw, Bob Griese, Larrry Czonka, Paul Warfield, Lenny Dawson. There are many many more that are HOF'ers from these teams. How about your favorite Vikings? Think PH is as good as CC? Trading career stats for a Super Bowl? Too many thing have to go RIGHT to win a SB. And judging someone on what they didnt do is just plain silly. DId you ever see John Randle play???? If you didnt enjoy that on Sundays, you're not a fan of football or the Vikings. And to call Bud Grant "the least smelly turd" should get you banned from here, but I guess freedom of speech is ours to own. I am ashamed for you. Oh yea, there were some NFC Championship games that the VIkings went up against in the Bud Grant era, some of the names on those teams, Roger Staubach, Merlin Olsen, there are hof'ers everywhere. I guess History was'nt one of your favorite subjects. That's not PurplePride at all. Purple Pride IS History!!!!!!!!!

While I get what you're saying, listing Bradshaw among those players is a joke. Have you ever looked at his career stats? His career passer rating was 70.9, with 212 TDs and 210 INTs. We lost to the Steelers D... not Terry Bradshaw.

But yeah, I completely understand what you're saying... and John Randle was a beast.

It's just disappointing that 40 years later, Grant is still the best coach the Vikings have ever had... and he never won a Super Bowl. But, I did enjoy reading this article and hope Fraizer listened to what Grant had to say.

I also read today that Tony Dungy's first year as the Bucs HC (1996), he started the year 0-5, and finished 6-10. Not really that inspiring, but it's a little ray of sunshine during these dark times.

slavinator
10-06-2011, 05:30 PM
Nice to see you back Cmac

jessejames09
10-06-2011, 05:44 PM
All I really know is what I've heard and seen on TV. Bud Grant was by far the best Vikings coach ever. That's not saying much seeing as we're not a very old team, but if I follow these old timers properly he's probably going to be the best we've had for a while, for good reason.

We haven't had a line as good as the PPE since, most teams haven't, that's pretty remarkable.Well 2 HOFers and Jim Marshall, who damn well should be in, out of a 4 man line.

How about Fran The Man, did he start his career under Bud Grant? Whoever let him do what he did, was truly an innovator, with massive cojones. It's only now becoming okay for NFL teams to develop their franchise around a 'running' QB. Remember at the controversy surrounding Vick? No the first one. Whether a 'running' QB could ever succeed in the NFL. That was in the early 2000s...

C Mac D
10-06-2011, 05:47 PM
Nice to see you back Cmac

Thanks bud. Should be a quiet year for me, so I may only get kicked off 2 or 3 times.

ThorSPL
10-06-2011, 09:05 PM
I understand that and am happy he has a lot of respect from his players. Personally, I think the measure of success for an NFL coach is a Super Bowl ring.

Honest question: Do you think Grant was a better coach than Marv Levy?

I was going to make a witty remark here, but it came off like an ass....

C Mac D
10-06-2011, 09:17 PM
I was going to make a witty remark here, but it came off like an ass....

Never stopped me before.

CbusVikefan
10-07-2011, 06:55 AM
While I get what you're saying, listing Bradshaw among those players is a joke. Have you ever looked at his career stats? His career passer rating was 70.9, with 212 TDs and 210 INTs. We lost to the Steelers D... not Terry Bradshaw.

But yeah, I completely understand what you're saying... and John Randle was a beast.

It's just disappointing that 40 years later, Grant is still the best coach the Vikings have ever had... and he never won a Super Bowl. But, I did enjoy reading this article and hope Fraizer listened to what Grant had to say.

I also read today that Tony Dungy's first year as the Bucs HC (1996), he started the year 0-5, and finished 6-10. Not really that inspiring, but it's a little ray of sunshine during these dark times.
lol, you did notice who I listed first.