PDA

View Full Version : Frazier: Entire roster is up for review after latest loss



singersp
10-03-2011, 07:43 AM
Leslie Frazier says entire Vikings roster is up for review after latest loss

Only so many times can a deflated locker room sell the optimism that they are too talented for this, that the first halves the Vikings dominated through the first three weeks illustrate who they really are.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_19026799

AngloVike
10-03-2011, 08:43 AM
The inexplicable start has coach Leslie Frazier ready to appraise his entire roster - including quarterback, where the coach says Donovan McNabb still appears safe for now.

So either you're going to appraise the roster fairly and with an open mind or you're not. If you say player X is safe then how is any appraisal going to have meaning. I like Frazier but he's in danger of having a ' V ' shaped arse from sitting on the fence if the 'appraisal' is conducted like this.

C Mac D
10-03-2011, 08:49 AM
While I appreciate Fraizer's calm demeanor, I think it's pretty obvious that he's not yet ready to be a head coach in this league. Every week it seems to be someone else's fault.

Bill Musgrave is unable to conceive a winning gameplan and Fraizer doesn't have the 'fear of God' in his players. Since this roster will mostly be gone next year, players are just collecting their paychecks at this point.

Call it pessimist or whatever you want, I call it the truth.

Purple Floyd
10-03-2011, 09:10 AM
That is something any coach should do every week no matter what the record is.

Reignman
10-03-2011, 12:50 PM
Frazier needs to blow up more often, this calm crap certainly isn't working. Being calm didn't do Childress any good either. I want to see some damn emotion and guys getting their ass chewed, especially when your team is melting down every single game. Haley jumped on Cassel early and it seemed to motivate him.

There should be a 2nd headline.

Wilf: Entire coaching staff is up for review after latest loss

MulletMullitia
10-03-2011, 03:18 PM
I still stand behind Leslie. But like McNabb, it's becoming harder and harder to defend him every week. He is a carbon copy of Tony Dungy, in scheme and demeanor. Also in football intelligence. That's why I still have faith in him. Obviously, he is struggling early. But lot's of great coaches struggled in their first head coaching stints. Especially when given bad football teams to work with (Bill Belichick in Cleveland). He was given an absolute disaster to work with from Brad Childress. Let's give him more time. Who knows, maybe he will turn into Tony Dungy, his mentor. I'm not trying to justify a bad season. I just don't think he's had a sample size big enough to start calling for his head. I for one will give him this season, and the next one to prove what he's got. After 2 full seasons as head coach, I think we will have a sample size big enough to completely judge him. All that being said, I finally agree that it's time to put McNabb on the bench. We need to change it up. I'm worried about Ponder's health behind this line, but we need to see what the kid has. If he struggles with play or injuries, we probably have a good shot at landing Andrew Luck.

Purple Floyd
10-03-2011, 05:02 PM
Frazier is a tough one to get a read on. On one hand the team has come out and looked dominant for a half which leads me to think they were well prepared and playing hard but otoh they will completely collapse right when they have the other team on the ropes.

In the end I just want the front office to organize and bring in a high caliber GM to put things together and run the ship.

battleaxe4cheese
10-03-2011, 05:08 PM
So either you're going to appraise the roster fairly and with an open mind or you're not. If you say player X is safe then how is any appraisal going to have meaning. I like Frazier but he's in danger of having a ' V ' shaped arse from sitting on the fence if the 'appraisal' is conducted like this.

Exactly. I think Frazier is a very loyal person and esteems that quality very highly which is admirable to a point. There comes a time when you have to make changes or your arse is going to be called into the principles office, so to speak. He has to do what is in the best interest of the organization and not necessarily the guys on the field. It's all about winning and in this league as in life talk is cheap and results are everything.

When the flames get a little hotter under his own arse his loyalty to players at all costs will definitely be reevaluated. I hope his survival instincts kick in soon because this treat everyone with unwavering loyalty routine is starting to get stale.

I think he will be a good coach but that depends on his instincts to adapt and survive. We shall see.

singersp
10-03-2011, 08:25 PM
Leslie Frazier says entire Vikings roster is up for review after latest loss

Apparently when Frazier says, "The entire Vikings roster is up for review", that means every one but McNabb..

Vikings' Frazier to stick with McNabb at QB despite 0-4 start

NFL.com news: Vikings' Frazier to stick with McNabb at QB despite 0-4 start (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d822cbbd9/article/vikings-frazier-to-stick-with-mcnabb-at-qb-despite-04-start)

If he fails to see where a lot of the problem is & just "lets it be", then HC material he's not.

MulletMullitia
10-03-2011, 11:30 PM
Apparently when Frazier says, "The entire Vikings roster is up for review", that means every one but McNabb..

Vikings' Frazier to stick with McNabb at QB despite 0-4 start

NFL.com news: Vikings' Frazier to stick with McNabb at QB despite 0-4 start (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d822cbbd9/article/vikings-frazier-to-stick-with-mcnabb-at-qb-despite-04-start)

If he fails to see where a lot of the problem is & just "lets it be", then HC material he's not.

I think the issue is that we would have to cut McNabb if we benched him. And we need to use our remaining cap space to sign Max Starks, and not another back-up QB. But I'm ready for the Ponder era. Although I think he will get crushed behind this line.

Freya
10-04-2011, 04:22 AM
This appraisal MUST include coaches.......who are clearly not doing their jobs either.

It wouldn't hurt if Fraser tried channeling Ditka a bit, either. There are a few players who need to be grabbed by the facemask and read the riot act. I would start with Griffin.

Zeus
10-04-2011, 08:28 AM
This appraisal MUST include coaches.......who are clearly not doing their jobs either.

It wouldn't hurt if Fraser tried channeling Ditka a bit, either. There are a few players who need to be grabbed by the facemask and read the riot act. I would start with Griffin.

I'd start with the O-Line. Then I'd move on to McNabb. Then I'd move over to Berrian. Then I'd grab the D-Line, including Jared (mostly because he'd be going "YEAH, COACH!" Then I'd slide on over to Greenway. Finally I'd get to Griffin and Johnson/Sanford. Then I'd yell at Kluwe, just because.

=Z=

mountainviking
10-04-2011, 10:57 AM
I'd start with the O-Line. Then I'd move on to McNabb. Then I'd move over to Berrian. Then I'd grab the D-Line, including Jared (mostly because he'd be going "YEAH, COACH!" Then I'd slide on over to Greenway. Finally I'd get to Griffin and Johnson/Sanford. Then I'd yell at Kluwe, just because.

=Z=
LOL!

Shit you didn't leave many out! But, I think you can leave Kluwe alone...right now he's MVP of our team! He's a big part of our run-run-pass-punt plan and at least he makes us laugh once in awhile!?!?! ;)

Ya know, really, who the fook thought this OL was going to work!? And, WTF!?!?! Doesn't anybody remember that the Tampa-2 starts, stands for, and ends with 2 Safeties!?!?!?

I'm starting to think the GM has something to do with this...

But, leave Ponder on the bench! He'll only get destroyed by our OL and probably end up throwing more INTs cuz he doesn't have the NFL experience to help him make up for his lack of experience in this scheme.

tastywaves
10-04-2011, 11:08 AM
LOL!

Shit you didn't leave many out! But, I think you can leave Kluwe alone...right now he's MVP of our team! He's a big part of our run-run-pass-punt plan and at least he makes us laugh once in awhile!?!?! ;)

Ya know, really, who the fook thought this OL was going to work!? And, WTF!?!?! Doesn't anybody remember that the Tampa-2 starts, stands for, and ends with 2 Safeties!?!?!?

I'm starting to think the GM has something to do with this...

But, leave Ponder on the bench! He'll only get destroyed by our OL and probably end up throwing more INTs cuz he doesn't have the NFL experience to help him make up for his lack of experience in this scheme.

No doubt, our safeties are a huge part of our problem. I think our corners are actually holding their own this year for what they are asked to do. When you see a lot of the breakdowns and bigger plays it is most frequently in the safeties area of responsibility. Even though the corner may have brought the receiver up to the pass off point, the safety needs to make a play and ours very seldom do. The corner has medium range outside responsibility, the safety has inside and over the top. The plays are being made on the inside part of the field for the most part.

Our LB'ers are another liability for us within the cover 2. Fix the safeties and the LB'ers and we actually have pretty decent talent for the cover 2. Not going to happen anytime soon, but I think this is the main reason why we fall apart when teams decide to get pass happy against us. One real safety and an athletic LB'er and this defense is vastly improved.

Purple Floyd
10-04-2011, 11:21 AM
The reason why we suck in the C2 is that it relies on speed in the LB and secondary and we don't have even average speed in either unit across the board.

Speed makes the zones smaller and speed puts players in a position to make plays and create turnovers.

Lack of speed makes the DC give bigger cushions, it makes the holes in the zones bigger and it limits the teams ability to make up ground when somebody misses a read.

If we are going to continue this C2 thing ( And I have been in favor of dumping it) then we need to draft for smart and fast players who can make it work and right now we don't.

I will state that we might have the players to run some sort of C2 but that particular version sucks and needs to be mothballed in favor of a newer, faster, less suckier version that gives us a chance to win against elite opponents.

tastywaves
10-04-2011, 11:27 AM
The reason why we suck in the C2 is that it relies on speed in the LB and secondary and we don't have even average speed in either unit across the board.

Speed makes the zones smaller and speed puts players in a position to make plays and create turnovers.

Lack of speed makes the DC give bigger cushions, it makes the holes in the zones bigger and it limits the teams ability to make up ground when somebody misses a read.

If we are going to continue this C2 thing ( And I have been in favor of dumping it) then we need to draft for smart and fast players who can make it work and right now we don't.

I will state that we might have the players to run some sort of C2 but that particular version sucks and needs to be mothballed in favor of a newer, faster, less suckier version that gives us a chance to win against elite opponents.

Won't argue with any of that, but I would start with the safeties and the Henderson's.

Purple Floyd
10-04-2011, 11:46 AM
Won't argue with any of that, but I would start with the safeties and the Henderson's.

Well yeah, they are the slowest ones out there at their respective positions. And even a 3 cone drill time won't convince me otherwise.

Zeus
10-05-2011, 09:39 PM
Won't argue with any of that, but I would start with the safeties and the Henderson's.

I actually like Abdullah. I think a large part of the reason we don't see him much is that offenses are targetting the parts of the field where he isn't - knowing that the Sanford/Johnson combo is vulnerable.

=z=

Purple Floyd
10-05-2011, 09:44 PM
I don't look at anyone in the secondary except maybe Winfield and get the feeling I would be comfortable with them on the field with the game on the line in the SB. And with Winfield I would only be comfortable if the play was either a run or he was blitzing. Some will be OK against marginal teams but as a whole they will get toasted by the elite ones and that is not getting us to where we want to be.

inkedgeek
10-05-2011, 10:36 PM
I don't look at anyone in the secondary except maybe Winfield and get the feeling I would be comfortable with them on the field with the game on the line in the SB. And with Winfield I would only be comfortable if the play was either a run or he was blitzing. Some will be OK against marginal teams but as a whole they will get toasted by the elite ones and that is not getting us to where we want to be.

I totally agree.

skum
10-06-2011, 12:08 AM
So the entire roster is up for a review and Frazier comes out and say there will be no changes in who starts, what does that say about our depth..

We need to make some changes and not be stubborn, give some of the young guys a chance on the OL, lets see what a guy like Mistral Raymond can do at safety and such.

Frazier is trying to save a season that is already lost.

Purple Floyd
10-06-2011, 08:10 AM
Yeah, if he comes out and says he is reviewing every spot on an 0-4 team and then makes no changes except calling up a FB then I would say he might be in over his head. This puts a lot of pressure on him because if things don't look any different this week he loses a pretty good amount of credibility.

singersp
10-06-2011, 08:23 AM
Yeah, if he comes out and says he is reviewing every spot on an 0-4 team and then makes no changes except calling up a FB then I would say he might be in over his head. This puts a lot of pressure on him because if things don't look any different this week he loses a pretty good amount of credibility.

Frazier had credibility? When did he earn that?

Purple Floyd
10-06-2011, 08:36 AM
Frazier had credibility? When did he earn that?

When the great Wilf proclaimed him the head coach.:rofl:

Only one other man has ever shared that honor and he is a legend in these parts.

Actually he hasn't EARNED any at this point. I always allot a new coach a certain amount and it is up to them to maintain or lose it. At this point I have been neutral on him because I know he has a tough job with not a lot of help as far as bringing in talent goes but I am not too pleased with some of his decisions so far.