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View Full Version : McNabb calls team meeting to address early Vikings struggles



MulletMullitia
09-22-2011, 02:55 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82272c0c/article/mcnabb-calls-team-meeting-to-address-early-vikings-struggles?module=HP11_headline_stack

By Dan Hanzus, NFL.com


Don't worry, Vikings fans. Sure, your team is winless, your new QB looks ancient, and you have the suddenly scary-looking Lions up next on your schedule.

Donovan McNabb says things are under control.


Defensive end Jared Allen and offensive guard Steve Hutchinson joined the veteran quarterback for a team meeting Monday designed to "get some things addressed."

"When you're 0-2, there's no need to panic," McNabb said, according to the St. Paul Pioneer Press. "But there's a sense of urgency that has to take place. ... I think it was the time (for the meeting). It was one that needed to be addressed. Then we'll see how it goes from there."

TheAnimal93
09-22-2011, 06:31 AM
Im impressed.

VikesFan787
09-22-2011, 07:20 AM
Make him head coach.

Purple Floyd
09-22-2011, 08:11 AM
I guess I am not sure why it was time for the meeting or what needed to be addressed. Was it not abundantly clear even before the first game what the expectations were for the coaches and the players? Did they need a special meeting to point out that they should average more than 1.5 points in the second half of a game and that they should not be collapsing in the second half with a lead?

If the meeting was this necessary this early then it seems to me the staff did a poor job of setting expectations going into the season and the players lacked basic comprehension skills if they didn't already know it.

C Mac D
09-22-2011, 09:45 AM
Something I noticed in the PFT article about limiting Percy's playing time, Fraizer never seems to get down on his coaches or players. He always remains positive and tries to give them encouragement to put them on the right path.

While this is great and all, these are grown men and pampering/coddling them with positive reinforcement after two losses doesn't really work. I'm sure McNabb realized this and called a meeting to put the fear of God in these guys... because we all know Fraizer isn't doing it.

MulletMullitia
09-22-2011, 10:09 AM
I think Frazier is a very intelligent football mind. And his players respect him. The two big reasons that I'm a big supporter of his. But I wish he had some fire. I know that's not his style. But it's hard to not get jealous seeing guys like Mike Tomlin and Rex Ryan getting fired up on the sidelines for their teams.

Purple Floyd
09-22-2011, 10:44 AM
Bud Grant was much the same on the sidelines. Never saw a single emotion from him.

C Mac D
09-22-2011, 10:59 AM
Bud Grant was much the same on the sidelines. Never saw a single emotion from him.

And Bud Grant never won a Super Bowl.

12purplepride28
09-22-2011, 11:03 AM
I guess I am not sure why it was time for the meeting or what needed to be addressed. Was it not abundantly clear even before the first game what the expectations were for the coaches and the players? Did they need a special meeting to point out that they should average more than 1.5 points in the second half of a game and that they should not be collapsing in the second half with a lead?

If the meeting was this necessary this early then it seems to me the staff did a poor job of setting expectations going into the season and the players lacked basic comprehension skills if they didn't already know it.

You are just going to hate on everything Mcnabb does. This can't be anything but good. They obviously know what they need to do, but for the younger players, it's easy to get discouraged. The vets on our team are just standing up and taking a leadership, getting everyone together, "Hey guys, we can do this. Let's give 100% all game" or whatever he said. Nothing wrong with this at all.

Purple Floyd
09-22-2011, 11:14 AM
You are just going to hate on everything Mcnabb does. This can't be anything but good. They obviously know what they need to do, but for the younger players, it's easy to get discouraged. The vets on our team are just standing up and taking a leadership, getting everyone together, "Hey guys, we can do this. Let's give 100% all game" or whatever he said. Nothing wrong with this at all.

What the hell are you talking about. My god.

Did the meeting also not get called by Hutch and Allen? I didn't even mention McNabb in my post and if you really choose to read what I wrote instead of seeing that I posted and automatically raise the DM defense flag you might see something different.

My post should have been clearly interpreted as being about the whole team and not one single individual and it is clearly also laying it at the feet of the coaches.

But whatever, if you can only see everything pointed at McNabb then maybe you should take some comprehension classes because you obviously are having problems.

Go look for debate somewhere else because you certainly aren't ready for them here.

Purple Floyd
09-22-2011, 11:15 AM
And Bud Grant never won a Super Bowl.

Yep. That point is painfully obvious.

I would not point that out myself because someone would get butthurt and call me a hater so feel free.

MulletMullitia
09-22-2011, 11:28 AM
Yep. That point is painfully obvious.

I would not point that out myself because someone would get butthurt and call me a hater so feel free.

I never got had the privilege to see Bud Grant coach. But this really annoys me. I hate hearing people talk shit about every Vikings player just because we never won a Super Bowl. Does that mean that every single player since 1961 has been a failure? How about Fran Tarkenton? I know that Mac didn't mean it that way. But it's just something that really annoys me. Especially coming from Packers fans. We have a storied franchise with many great successes. And Bud Grant was a legendary coach; regardless of not winning a Super Bowl.

Caine
09-22-2011, 11:39 AM
I never got had the privilege to see Bud Grant coach. But this really annoys me. I hate hearing people talk shit about every Vikings player just because we never won a Super Bowl. Does that mean that every single player since 1961 has been a failure? How about Fran Tarkenton? I know that Mac didn't mean it that way. But it's just something that really annoys me. Especially coming from Packers fans. We have a storied franchise with many great successes. And Bud Grant was a legendary coach; regardless of not winning a Super Bowl.

The entire point of the game - as is pointed out every year - is to win the Superbowl. It doesn't really matter how many Division or Conference Championships you have if you can't finish it out with a Superbowl victory. We haven't. It's really that simple.

Does that invalidate the players and coaches? No, not completely. But it DOES point out the fact that we have never succeeded in finishing a season.

Think of it like this - we were winning for most of the game versus San Diego..but, in the end, we lost. We were winning for most of the game versus Tampa, but in the end we lost. Not winning the Superbowl is a lot like that. "We were winning for awhile" doesn't cut it. You have to finish.

So, as players or coaches, we have had some fantastic INDIVIDUALS...we have never had a TEAM that got it done. And, to be honest, that hurts.

Caine

MulletMullitia
09-22-2011, 12:05 PM
The entire point of the game - as is pointed out every year - is to win the Superbowl. It doesn't really matter how many Division or Conference Championships you have if you can't finish it out with a Superbowl victory. We haven't. It's really that simple.

Does that invalidate the players and coaches? No, not completely. But it DOES point out the fact that we have never succeeded in finishing a season.

Think of it like this - we were winning for most of the game versus San Diego..but, in the end, we lost. We were winning for most of the game versus Tampa, but in the end we lost. Not winning the Superbowl is a lot like that. "We were winning for awhile" doesn't cut it. You have to finish.

So, as players or coaches, we have had some fantastic INDIVIDUALS...we have never had a TEAM that got it done. And, to be honest, that hurts.

Caine

Of course it hurts. I never said it didn't. But I don't think our entire franchise has been a failure. I also believe that you have to experience the gut-wrenching defeats to truly enjoy the celebration that comes with that ultimate victory. Something that fair weather fans can never understand. I have faith that our Vikings will win that Super Bowl. And when we do, it will be the greatest feeling on earth.

C Mac D
09-22-2011, 12:17 PM
The entire point of the game - as is pointed out every year - is to win the Superbowl. It doesn't really matter how many Division or Conference Championships you have if you can't finish it out with a Superbowl victory. We haven't. It's really that simple.

Does that invalidate the players and coaches? No, not completely. But it DOES point out the fact that we have never succeeded in finishing a season.

Think of it like this - we were winning for most of the game versus San Diego..but, in the end, we lost. We were winning for most of the game versus Tampa, but in the end we lost. Not winning the Superbowl is a lot like that. "We were winning for awhile" doesn't cut it. You have to finish.

So, as players or coaches, we have had some fantastic INDIVIDUALS...we have never had a TEAM that got it done. And, to be honest, that hurts.

Caine

Well said, 100% agreed.

I have faith in Frazier, only as a DC though. Not sure he's HC material but am willing to give him a chance.

I do not have faith in Musgrave.

Purple Floyd
09-22-2011, 12:22 PM
Of course it hurts. I never said it didn't. But I don't think our entire franchise has been a failure. I also believe that you have to experience the gut-wrenching defeats to truly enjoy the celebration that comes with that ultimate victory. Something that fair weather fans can never understand. I have faith that our Vikings will win that Super Bowl. And when we do, it will be the greatest feeling on earth.

I don't think it was ever said by any vikings fan on this site that the entire franchise has been a failure. If you can point it out anywhere I would be interested in seeing it. And believe me, you have only scratched the surface in your life when it comes to gut wrenching defeats so you really have to consider the context of what is being said when you are reading what others are posting. Singer, Caine, Marty, myself and others have been alive long enough to see the 4 SB losses, the 5 or so NFCCG losses along with the steady parade of QB's on their last breath. 25 years ago I was as optimistic as you were because it had only been about a decade since our last SB appearance while it had been 2 decades since the last Packers SB game.

It doesn't mean we are any less fans because we lived through it and it doesn't mean you are any less because you didn't. But just remember that perspectives change with time and in the end we all just want the same thing at the end of a season.

Caine
09-22-2011, 01:01 PM
Of course it hurts. I never said it didn't. But I don't think our entire franchise has been a failure. I also believe that you have to experience the gut-wrenching defeats to truly enjoy the celebration that comes with that ultimate victory. Something that fair weather fans can never understand. I have faith that our Vikings will win that Super Bowl. And when we do, it will be the greatest feeling on earth.

I'm not so sure that, "you have to experience the gut-wrenching defeats to truly enjoy the celebration that comes with that ultimate victory"...I think that Pittsburgh, Dallas, and New England fans have enjoyed their victories plenty. I don't think they needed to suffer through 50 years of not winning in order to "truly" appreciate a championship.

As for "fair-weather fans", they are a reality in every sport, for every winning franchise. They neither accentuate nor depreciate a Championship...they're more like tapeworms. You don't even realize they're along for the ride until they leave.

I do not have a lot of faith right now in Zygi Wilf. I think he has made quite a few hiring errors and has set us back a bit. I think he would better serve our franchise if he hired a GM and stepped out of the picture. He's not a "football guy"...no matter how much he wants to be.

I am not thrilled by the hiring of Frazier. We needed a stronger "personality" at that position in order to distance the team from the owner. We didn't get that. The question now is, "Can Leslie grow into the job?". We'll see.

I have almost no faith in Bill Musgrave. He has a crappy track record as an OC, and I have seen very little thus far to make me think he's improved.

It will be awhile before this franchise is poised for a Superbowl run. I will continue to hope for the best, and I will continue to cheer for them every Sunday, but I have never been a pie-in-the-sky idealist, and I see no reason to become one today.

Caine

bleedpurple
09-22-2011, 01:13 PM
The entire point of the game - as is pointed out every year - is to win the Superbowl. It doesn't really matter how many Division or Conference Championships you have if you can't finish it out with a Superbowl victory. We haven't. It's really that simple.

Does that invalidate the players and coaches? No, not completely. But it DOES point out the fact that we have never succeeded in finishing a season.

Think of it like this - we were winning for most of the game versus San Diego..but, in the end, we lost. We were winning for most of the game versus Tampa, but in the end we lost. Not winning the Superbowl is a lot like that. "We were winning for awhile" doesn't cut it. You have to finish.

So, as players or coaches, we have had some fantastic INDIVIDUALS...we have never had a TEAM that got it done. And, to be honest, that hurts.

Caine


I'm not so sure that, "you have to experience the gut-wrenching defeats to truly enjoy the celebration that comes with that ultimate victory"...I think that Pittsburgh, Dallas, and New England fans have enjoyed their victories plenty. I don't think they needed to suffer through 50 years of not winning in order to "truly" appreciate a championship.

As for "fair-weather fans", they are a reality in every sport, for every winning franchise. They neither accentuate nor depreciate a Championship...they're more like tapeworms. You don't even realize they're along for the ride until they leave.

I do not have a lot of faith right now in Zygi Wilf. I think he has made quite a few hiring errors and has set us back a bit. I think he would better serve our franchise if he hired a GM and stepped out of the picture. He's not a "football guy"...no matter how much he wants to be.

I am not thrilled by the hiring of Frazier. We needed a stronger "personality" at that position in order to distance the team from the owner. We didn't get that. The question now is, "Can Leslie grow into the job?". We'll see.

I have almost no faith in Bill Musgrave. He has a crappy track record as an OC, and I have seen very little thus far to make me think he's improved.

It will be awhile before this franchise is poised for a Superbowl run. I will continue to hope for the best, and I will continue to cheer for them every Sunday, but I have never been a pie-in-the-sky idealist, and I see no reason to become one today.

Caine

Caine, this post is a classic... i agree with you COMPLETELY!!... Not a frazier fan.. was hoping for a shot at a guy with a proven track record after childress...

Hated the Musgrave hire.. his track record has been abysmal...

Unfortunately I think Frazier will be here atleast 2-3 years.. and I think we're wasting some of the best years AP has trying to figure out what the hell we're doing on offense... I'm starting to question Spielman too (and i like the guy).. he's never been able to spot QB talent anywhere he's been...

BloodyHorns82
09-22-2011, 01:22 PM
The entire point of the game - as is pointed out every year - is to win the Superbowl.

I disagree. I believe that the entire point of the game is to provide entertainment.

A Superbowl victory is the ultimate goal, but certainly not the "entire point". There are many levels of success and it can still be had without achieving the top prize.

bleedpurple
09-22-2011, 01:23 PM
I disagree. I believe that the entire point of the game is to provide entertainment.

A Superbowl victory is the ultimate goal, but certainly not the "entire point". There are many levels of success and it can still be had without achieving the top prize.

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.....
~ Herm Edwards

BloodyHorns82
09-22-2011, 01:27 PM
YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.....
~ Herm Edwards

If they weren't providing the paying fans entertainment then they wouldn't have a game to play, it's as simple as that.

I can sit down at a football stadium and be entertained without considering the event a failure just because they probably won't win the Superbowl at the end of the season.

Crushing hits, hail mary catches, sideline grabs, QB sacks, moving the chains, third down stops - Those are the reason we watch the game. If the only point was winning the Super Bowl we wouldn't bother tuning our TVs on until the Superbowl in hopes that our purple team was on the field. Then upon realizing they weren't playing, quickly shut the TV off and tune in next year.

C Mac D
09-22-2011, 01:35 PM
If they weren't providing the paying fans entertainment then they wouldn't have a game to play, it's as simple as that.

I can sit down at a football stadium and be entertained without considering the event a failure just because they probably won't win the Superbowl at the end of the season.

Crushing hits, hail mary catches, sideline grabs, QB sacks, moving the chains, third down stops - Those are the reason we watch the game. If the only point was winning the Super Bowl we wouldn't bother tuning our TVs on until the Superbowl in hopes that our purple team was on the field. Then upon realizing they weren't playing, quickly shut the TV off and tune in next year.

Not to criticize you, but it's that attitude that hasn't brought a championship to Minnesota or its fans.

BloodyHorns82
09-22-2011, 01:41 PM
Not to criticize you, but it's that attitude that hasn't brought a championship to Minnesota or its fans.

Why do you watch the games each week? Why will you watch the game on Sunday? You know we're not winning a Superbowl so why waste your time?

It's not really an attitude it's more of a fact.

If the fans didn't fund the NFL there would be no NFL. The point of the game is entertainment no matter which way you slice it.

To be fair, I will never be fully satisfied with a season unless it results in a Superbowl victory, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an enjoyable season.

RK.
09-22-2011, 02:26 PM
If it were just about winning the SB I would be a Green Bay or Patriots fan this year. Or if some other team steps up in the middle of the year I would switch to them. Its more than that for fans of a team. It may be only about the SB for players in the locker room but then none of us here are in that position. As a fan I want my team to do well and have a shot at the super bowl at the end of the season. Yes I want us to win one but that is not everything.

Bud Grant took us to that place of having a shot more than any other coach in the history of this franchise and in fact more times than most coach's in any franchise. That's why he is in the HOF and dis-ing him on this board is not a smart thing to do.

BloodyHorns82
09-22-2011, 02:31 PM
If it were just about winning the SB I would be a Green Bay or Patriots fan this year. Or if some other team steps up in the middle of the year I would switch to them. Its more than that for fans of a team. It may be only about the SB for players in the locker room but then none of us here are in that position. As a fan I want my team to do well and have a shot at the super bowl at the end of the season. Yes I want us to win one but that is not everything.

Bud Grant took us to that place of having a shot more than any other coach in the history of this franchise and in fact more times than most coach's in any franchise. That's why he is in the HOF and dis-ing him on this board is not a smart thing to do.

Agree with most of your point but lets be honest...for 97% of players in the locker room it's not about winning the super bowl it's about collecting that big ass paycheck. ;)

C Mac D
09-22-2011, 02:44 PM
Agree with most of your point but lets be honest...for 97% of players in the locker room it's not about winning the super bowl it's about collecting that big ass paycheck. ;)

100% agree. As the paychecks become bigger, players seem to care less and less.

TheAnimal93
09-22-2011, 03:43 PM
The entire point of the game - as is pointed out every year - is to win the Superbowl. It doesn't really matter how many Division or Conference Championships you have if you can't finish it out with a Superbowl victory. We haven't. It's really that simple.

Does that invalidate the players and coaches? No, not completely. But it DOES point out the fact that we have never succeeded in finishing a season.

Think of it like this - we were winning for most of the game versus San Diego..but, in the end, we lost. We were winning for most of the game versus Tampa, but in the end we lost. Not winning the Superbowl is a lot like that. "We were winning for awhile" doesn't cut it. You have to finish.

So, as players or coaches, we have had some fantastic INDIVIDUALS...we have never had a TEAM that got it done. And, to be honest, that hurts.

Caine

Technically,
Not totally true....... 1969: With the slogan 40 men for 60 minutes the Vikings overcome a one point season opening loss to the Giants in New York by winning their next 12 games to win their second straight division title win a 12-2 record. Leading the way for the Vikings is a ferocious defense known as the Purple People Eaters that holds opponents to just 133 points on the season. In the first playoff game ever at Metropolitan Stadium the Vikings found themselves in a hole trailing the Los Angeles Rams 17-7 at halftime. By the start of the 4th Quarter they had cut the lead to 20-14, where the Vikings defense took over and claimed a 23-20 victory. A week later in the final NFL Championship Game before the merger, the Vikings dominated the Cleveland Browns all day before allowing a meaningless Touchdown late in the 4th Quarter in a convincing 27-7 win. (copied from sportsencyclopeadia.com)


There have been many bright spots in this franchise. And seasons. Yes, we want to win it all as fans, but when we dont and get close, it hurts like hell but as Vikings fans you should be used to it by now. Especially if you are long in the tooth. The '98 season was one of the best all time BY ANY TEAM!!! and 2009 wasnt too bad either. Grown men used to play the game( except for Larry Werhli, lol) for the game, now I am not sure how much players care about the golden ring compared to the golden parachute. And you really can't blame the players, if I were paid that much money for a few years, I would want to be able to enjoy it after my career was over. But they should care, they are getting paid to do a job to the best of their ability.
This year, they are slacking.....

Purple Floyd
09-22-2011, 04:03 PM
Technically,
Not totally true....... 1969: With the slogan 40 men for 60 minutes the Vikings overcome a one point season opening loss to the Giants in New York by winning their next 12 games to win their second straight division title win a 12-2 record. Leading the way for the Vikings is a ferocious defense known as the Purple People Eaters that holds opponents to just 133 points on the season. In the first playoff game ever at Metropolitan Stadium the Vikings found themselves in a hole trailing the Los Angeles Rams 17-7 at halftime. By the start of the 4th Quarter they had cut the lead to 20-14, where the Vikings defense took over and claimed a 23-20 victory. A week later in the final NFL Championship Game before the merger, the Vikings dominated the Cleveland Browns all day before allowing a meaningless Touchdown late in the 4th Quarter in a convincing 27-7 win. (copied from sportsencyclopeadia.com)


There have been many bright spots in this franchise. And seasons. Yes, we want to win it all as fans, but when we dont and get close, it hurts like hell but as Vikings fans you should be used to it by now. Especially if you are long in the tooth. The '98 season was one of the best all time BY ANY TEAM!!! and 2009 wasnt too bad either. Grown men used to play the game( except for Larry Werhli, lol) for the game, now I am not sure how much players care about the golden ring compared to the golden parachute. And you really can't blame the players, if I were paid that much money for a few years, I would want to be able to enjoy it after my career was over. But they should care, they are getting paid to do a job to the best of their ability.
This year, they are slacking.....

I believe he might be talking Super Bowls.

Traveling_Vike
09-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Every single person has their own set of priorities, and their own measure of success, whether they be player, coach, owner, or fan. There are some generalities, though, IMO.

For the most part, fans are in it for the excitement and entertainment first, and the celebration of the ultimate victory second. There is also the vindication factor: "I've been a fan of this team for so long, and I'm finally able to rub everyone else's nose in it."

Coaches and staff want to provide the best quality product they can, and in this respect I think the championship title is the ultimate priority for them. It is how they will be judged once they are finished with their careers.

Owners... well, let's be honest. They're in it to fill seats and make money as a result. Championships are great, but secondary.

Players... most of them are interested in making lots of money playing a game they love and are good at. Some lust for those championships, while others are more interested in individual honors like MVPs and rushing or sack titles. It really hard to judge sometimes.

The broadcast networks (including the NFL network)are only interested in ratings, which again translates to money. They're not affiliated with any one team, so titles mean nothing to them.

Success. It has different definitions for different people. For some it is an absolute, black-and-white ideal, while to others there is a sliding scale of degree. I'm one of the latter.

We've won more than lost, reached the Super Bowl four times and the NFC Championship several more, so we've gotten close more than many teams can claim. And the Vikings have been fun to watch more often than not.

That, to me, is moderate success.

RK.
09-22-2011, 07:16 PM
Ultimatly sports are about competition. Who is best and who is next best. I think winning a super bowl during their career is a major focus for most players in the NFL. For football players its like winning a gold medal in the olympics. The money is great and individual stats are great but being able to say you are a world champion is what they all play for at some level. I am not so jaded as to think they just do it for the money. "Show me the money", is a big part of professional sports but its not the #1 focus for a bunch of guys in their 20's at the peak of their physical performance IMO. I think Favre played for us because he wanted to see if he could get one more ring before he retired. I don't think he played for the money, I think he played for the glory. I think that is the driving force behind all sports competition.

jessejames09
09-22-2011, 08:16 PM
Probably went something like this. The quality sucks. You'll live.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8syv6GupEXw

battleaxe4cheese
09-22-2011, 08:51 PM
Great problem solved. That was easy.

jessejames09
09-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Agreed. Now that we're most likely full of hearty soup, we're good.

keystonevike
09-23-2011, 12:08 AM
Nice to see that they are trying to right this ship as a team.
Will it help against Suh and the rest of the Lions?

Traveling_Vike
09-23-2011, 02:22 AM
Nice to see that they are trying to right this ship as a team.
Will it help against Suh and the rest of the Lions?

Not if they eat soup too.

STCLOUDSAYSGOVIKES
09-23-2011, 03:06 AM
Ultimatly sports are about competition. Who is best and who is next best. I think winning a super bowl during their career is a major focus for most players in the NFL. For football players its like winning a gold medal in the olympics. The money is great and individual stats are great but being able to say you are a world champion is what they all play for at some level. I am not so jaded as to think they just do it for the money. "Show me the money", is a big part of professional sports but its not the #1 focus for a bunch of guys in their 20's at the peak of their physical performance IMO. I think Favre played for us because he wanted to see if he could get one more ring before he retired. I don't think he played for the money, I think he played for the glory. I think that is the driving force behind all sports competition.

It's about winning championships. The times when it isn't about winning them is things like ryder cup, world baseball classic and the olympics. In those cases it's about representing your country, to alot of players it means more to do that, then win a title.

At the same time, it's about the money. If it wasn't, they'd be a volunteer coach at the HS.

Take for example players that stay with a single team their entire career, then get shoved out the door by that team for being too injured or old. If they haven't won a world championship by that point, that is likely the reason they moved on. Best example here in minnesota is the late harmon killebrew. Played his entire career with washington/minnesota and couldn't win a world series. Gets released and goes to KC to try one last time. If he didn't think he could win one there, why the hell would he keep playing.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 08:59 AM
....snip..... others have been alive long enough to see the 4 SB losses, the 5 or so NFCCG losses along with the steady parade of QB's on their last breath.......snip
What an excellent post.

In the en,d, all the heartache and pain will be rewarded and it will be a sweet reward my friends. Not because we finally won, but because of the road that we as fans took to get there.

In the end, the only ones that can say that are the fans. Not the players, not the owners, not the coaches, cause none of them have been there since the beginning like some of us have.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 09:02 AM
I do not have a lot of faith right now in Zygi Wilf. I think he has made quite a few hiring errors and has set us back a bit. I think he would better serve our franchise if he hired a GM and stepped out of the picture. He's not a "football guy"...no matter how much he wants to be.


Caine
This is something I think you and I have agreed upon since we first started talking about the team and the game.

On a side note, the fans and players "love" Leslie though. :)

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 09:13 AM
If they weren't providing the paying fans entertainment then they wouldn't have a game to play, it's as simple as that.

I can sit down at a football stadium and be entertained without considering the event a failure just because they probably won't win the Superbowl at the end of the season.

Crushing hits, hail mary catches, sideline grabs, QB sacks, moving the chains, third down stops - Those are the reason we watch the game. If the only point was winning the Super Bowl we wouldn't bother tuning our TVs on until the Superbowl in hopes that our purple team was on the field. Then upon realizing they weren't playing, quickly shut the TV off and tune in next year.
Another excellent post. This sure has turned into a good thread with some gems in it.

What I have found is there are really two loves when it comes to this sport. Love of the team and love the game.

Love of the team drives most, but love of the game allows a fan like my good friend BH82 to appreciate the things he mentioned.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 09:15 AM
Agree with most of your point but lets be honest...for 97% of players in the locker room it's not about winning the super bowl it's about collecting that big ass paycheck. ;)
LOL, you brought your "A" game I see. Makes me think back to last year when everyone wanted to say that players play for the love of the game.

I'm sure this offseason popped alot of bubbles my friend. :)

singersp
09-23-2011, 09:18 AM
I don't think it was ever said by any vikings fan on this site that the entire franchise has been a failure. If you can point it out anywhere I would be interested in seeing it. And believe me, you have only scratched the surface in your life when it comes to gut wrenching defeats so you really have to consider the context of what is being said when you are reading what others are posting. Singer, Caine, Marty, myself and others have been alive long enough to see the 4 SB losses, the 5 or so NFCCG losses along with the steady parade of QB's on their last breath. 25 years ago I was as optimistic as you were because it had only been about a decade since our last SB appearance while it had been 2 decades since the last Packers SB game.

It doesn't mean we are any less fans because we lived through it and it doesn't mean you are any less because you didn't. But just remember that perspectives change with time and in the end we all just want the same thing at the end of a season.

Simply translated.....

"Great expectations.....great disappointments"

The more in touch with reality as to what this team is actually able to do, the less gut wrenching it becomes.

We are not even close to being a really great team right now, so my expectations/optimism isn't great or high.

An average team usually equates to an average season, not an 11-5 season.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 09:18 AM
Every single person has their own set of priorities, and their own measure of success, whether they be player, coach, owner, or fan. There are some generalities, though, IMO.

For the most part, fans are in it for the excitement and entertainment first, and the celebration of the ultimate victory second. There is also the vindication factor: "I've been a fan of this team for so long, and I'm finally able to rub everyone else's nose in it."

Coaches and staff want to provide the best quality product they can, and in this respect I think the championship title is the ultimate priority for them. It is how they will be judged once they are finished with their careers.

Owners... well, let's be honest. They're in it to fill seats and make money as a result. Championships are great, but secondary.

Players... most of them are interested in making lots of money playing a game they love and are good at. Some lust for those championships, while others are more interested in individual honors like MVPs and rushing or sack titles. It really hard to judge sometimes.

The broadcast networks (including the NFL network)are only interested in ratings, which again translates to money. They're not affiliated with any one team, so titles mean nothing to them.

Success. It has different definitions for different people. For some it is an absolute, black-and-white ideal, while to others there is a sliding scale of degree. I'm one of the latter.

We've won more than lost, reached the Super Bowl four times and the NFC Championship several more, so we've gotten close more than many teams can claim. And the Vikings have been fun to watch more often than not.

That, to me, is moderate success.
I was hoping to see you wade into this discussion. Top shelf my friend. Top shelf indeed, however, I have one small comment.

Most players that crave championships, usually only do it after they have reached some sort of financial security and are getting close to the end of their careers.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 09:19 AM
Simply translated.....

"Great expectations.....great disappointments"

The more in touch with reality as to what this team is actually able to do, the less gut wrenching it becomes.

We are not even close to being a really great team right now, so my expectations/optimism isn't great or high.

An average team usually equates to an average season, not an 11-5 season.
Thats easy for you to say. I always have great expectations for the team. Always.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 10:47 AM
Peterson pleased veterans spoke up following defeat

"Just seeing those guys get up there and speak their mind, I can say, personally, maybe some guys needed that," Peterson said. "Speaking for myself, I don't like to lose. So it was good to see. ... I'm trying to win. And when I'm not winning, I'm not the happiest camper."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/130395803.html

Wonder why AD, if he wasn't so happy, didn't step up and be that kindof leader?

i_bleed_purple
09-23-2011, 10:55 AM
Peterson pleased veterans spoke up following defeat

"Just seeing those guys get up there and speak their mind, I can say, personally, maybe some guys needed that," Peterson said. "Speaking for myself, I don't like to lose. So it was good to see. ... I'm trying to win. And when I'm not winning, I'm not the happiest camper."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/130395803.html

Wonder why AD, if he wasn't so happy, didn't step up and be that kindof leader?

AP doesn't seem like the vocal leader type, he's more a lead by example type of player.

I don't think you'll ever see him wearing the captains patch, or saying much pre-game to pump the team up. Yeah, there'll be a bit, but I just don't see it from him.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 11:05 AM
AP doesn't seem like the vocal leader type, he's more a lead by example type of player.

I don't think you'll ever see him wearing the captains patch, or saying much pre-game to pump the team up. Yeah, there'll be a bit, but I just don't see it from him.
One day Hutch, Dnabb and JA will be gone and AD will still be there.

IMHO, he'd better figure out how to be a "Vocal Leader".

i_bleed_purple
09-23-2011, 11:10 AM
One day Hutch, Dnabb and JA will be gone and AD will still be there.

IMHO, he'd better figure out how to be a "Vocal Leader".

So, some people are, some people aren't.

I'd hope when JA, Hutch and mcNabb are gone, we'd have at least someone else capable of filling that role.

Greenway might be that guy, maybe Harvin? Who knows. Some guys have it, some don't. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a guy who plays lights out but just isn't a vocal leader at the RB position. That job should be for the QB anyway imo.

Offenses rally around a QB when they need a score in the clutch, not so much a RB, who gets taken out of the game alot of the time anyway.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 11:13 AM
So, some people are, some people aren't.

I'd hope when JA, Hutch and mcNabb are gone, we'd have at least someone else capable of filling that role.

Greenway might be that guy, maybe Harvin? Who knows. Some guys have it, some don't. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a guy who plays lights out but just isn't a vocal leader at the RB position. That job should be for the QB anyway imo.

Offenses rally around a QB when they need a score in the clutch, not so much a RB, who gets taken out of the game alot of the time anyway.
Why does it have to be a QB? How is he gonna jump in the defenses ass when they need veteran leadership?

In the end, a guy getting paid what AD is getting paid, along with his time on the roster almost dictatest that he takes some sort of leadership role. If he doesn't I will be very suprised and upset.

Formo
09-23-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm not so sure that, "you have to experience the gut-wrenching defeats to truly enjoy the celebration that comes with that ultimate victory"...I think that Pittsburgh, Dallas, and New England fans have enjoyed their victories plenty. I don't think they needed to suffer through 50 years of not winning in order to "truly" appreciate a championship.

No doubt Pittsburgh, Dallas or NE fans completely enjoyed their franchises SB victories.. But MM is right, there's NO WAY they appreciate it like MN fans would. No effin' way.

Formo
09-23-2011, 11:17 AM
So, some people are, some people aren't.

I'd hope when JA, Hutch and mcNabb are gone, we'd have at least someone else capable of filling that role.

Greenway might be that guy, maybe Harvin? Who knows. Some guys have it, some don't. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a guy who plays lights out but just isn't a vocal leader at the RB position. That job should be for the QB anyway imo.

Offenses rally around a QB when they need a score in the clutch, not so much a RB, who gets taken out of the game alot of the time anyway.

If he pans out, I guarantee Ponder will don the 'C' patch.

tastywaves
09-23-2011, 11:20 AM
Why does it have to be a QB? How is he gonna jump in the defenses ass when they need veteran leadership?

In the end, a guy getting paid what AD is getting paid, along with his time on the roster almost dictatest that he takes some sort of leadership role. If he doesn't I will be very suprised and upset.

I don't know, if I was on the Vikings offense and saw how hard AD bust his ass every play and the intensity he brings to the game I would be doing everything in my power to equal that intensity. It is a team game, and nobody wants to be the guy not pulling his weight.

Some guys need a poke in the ass to get them going, but it's not AD's style and as IBP states it will most likely come from the QB who is the voice of the offense on the field. AD tests your manhood and I guarantee the OL men don't want to let him down. They know he will take care of business if they do their job.

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 11:54 AM
If he pans out, I guarantee Ponder will don the 'C' patch.
No if about it my friend. When.....:)

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 11:56 AM
I don't know, if I was on the Vikings offense and saw how hard AD bust his ass every play and the intensity he brings to the game I would be doing everything in my power to equal that intensity. It is a team game, and nobody wants to be the guy not pulling his weight.

Some guys need a poke in the ass to get them going, but it's not AD's style and as IBP states it will most likely come from the QB who is the voice of the offense on the field. AD tests your manhood and I guarantee the OL men don't want to let him down. They know he will take care of business if they do their job.
I can see your point, but the little issue I see with that rationale is, why did it come to someone having to standup?

It isn't like AD has slacked off.

Again, good points, but it will still comedown to a time were AD is one of the most senior guys on the roster and should take on a leadership role.

Caine
09-23-2011, 06:50 PM
I can see your point, but the little issue I see with that rationale is, why did it come to someone having to standup?

It isn't like AD has slacked off.

Again, good points, but it will still comedown to a time were AD is one of the most senior guys on the roster and should take on a leadership role.
Agreeing with Tasty here...some people just aren't that type. Some people are "Do'ers" - like AP is - others are more vocal leader types - like McNabb or JA. Winfield is another "Do'er" who seldom speaks out.

Keep in mind, it doesn't make these people any less of a "Leader"...they're just not the vocal type. I doubt that if AP or Winfield saw something they vehemently disagreed with that they would let it pass. They're just not "Rah-Rah" types that get in people's faces or fire people up.

Allen is. Hutch is. McNabb is.

IMO, Greenway, Henderson, Harvin, and Ponder (If he develops right) need to be preparing to take on those roles.

Caine

Traveling_Vike
09-24-2011, 02:58 AM
I have no problem with AD leading by example, rather than with his voice. In most walks of life, I even prefer that style of "leadership." I wish there were more folks like Adrian in real life.

Many athletes, though, for whatever reason, seem to need the vocal cajoling as well. I don't understand why there isn't enough self-motivation, but it is obvious that that is the case.

So, a sports team needs both types of leaders in order to succeed. I'm glad we have good leaders of both types. AD shouldn't have to talk it up, as long as there are others who can and will do so.

singersp
09-24-2011, 07:47 AM
I wonder if Kluwe can motivate people with some clever white board speak.

Either that or we need to bring back Alan Page to put his fist thru the blackboard again to fire the team up.

TheAnimal93
09-24-2011, 08:41 AM
I wonder if Kluwe can motivate people with some clever white board speak.

Either that or we need to bring back Alan Page to put his fist thru the blackboard again to fire the team up.

lol, I bet he still can!!!!

thorshammer
09-24-2011, 09:46 AM
lol, I bet he still can!!!!

That seems to be the passion that's been missing the last few years .... I miss those days. There are times I wish this team would grow a pair and dominate some people again. I miss the days when the Vikings put fear into other teams.

MulletMullitia
09-24-2011, 10:42 AM
My McNabb jersey FINALLY came in today lol. Perfect timing. Like when my brand new Randy Moss jersey didn't get here until 2 weeks AFTER we released him, even though I ordered it the day we traded for him. Our fan shop is SO hit or miss.

Formo
09-24-2011, 03:02 PM
My McNabb jersey FINALLY came in today lol. Perfect timing. Like when my brand new Randy Moss jersey didn't get here until 2 weeks AFTER we released him, even though I ordered it the day we traded for him. Our fan shop is SO hit or miss.

LOL That's good stuff.

Scoot
09-25-2011, 10:10 AM
Purple Floyd, I get what you saying about not coming out the second half and scoring. I believe a meeting was needed but I think the meeting needs to be with all the coaches as well.. Like how do we get so far off track from having a huge lead to lose a game in the second half

And my comments about McNabb.. Sorry all, I never really liked McNabb.. I'm not sure if everyone saw what I did when McNabb came out of the locker room in the second half in the Buck's game. He was laughing and cutting up like they have already won the game. This is what I remember from McNabb when he was with the Eagles. I can't stand a hotdog.... And yes ... If I was the coach I would expect ZERO cutting up during the game.. This is serious business, and act like it. Your attitude shows your charter and what your intentions are....

singersp
09-25-2011, 10:49 AM
My McNabb jersey FINALLY came in today lol. Perfect timing. Like when my brand new Randy Moss jersey didn't get here until 2 weeks AFTER we released him, even though I ordered it the day we traded for him. Our fan shop is SO hit or miss.

Which fan shop did you order from?

gregair13
09-25-2011, 11:46 AM
After we lose today, time to call for Ponder?

Caine
09-25-2011, 12:13 PM
After we lose today, time to call for Ponder?

That depends....is Ponder ready to go?

If he is, then go ahead and play him - we're not likely to get leaps and bounds better than we are right now.

If he's not - and I suspect that he is not - then there is really no point in throwing him to the wolves. Jackson MIGHT have developed into a servicable Qb if we had waited with him. We didn't, and he turned out crap. Why do that to Ponder?

The other question is, "What mechanisms do we have in place right njow that he can use to be successful?"

The answer is, "None".

Our line is crap, our receivers are crap, our play calling is crap. Putting a rookie QB out there now is an empty gesture (In that it doesn't help the team in any appreciable sense) and will simply push his development back.

So, leave McNabb in there...regardless of how bad it gets.

Caine

HardcoreVikesFan
09-25-2011, 12:37 PM
I am not really sure why, but I still believe this team can rebound... I mean, my realist mentality has me seeing no way this team can make the playoffs this year, but something in my mind is twisting my reality. Something says McNabb will preform and the play calling/execution will improve...

Purple Floyd
09-25-2011, 05:48 PM
I am not really sure why, but I still believe this team can rebound... I mean, my realist mentality has me seeing no way this team can make the playoffs this year, but something in my mind is twisting my reality. Something says McNabb will preform and the play calling/execution will improve...

Wanna revisit that one now?:rofl:

marshallvike
09-25-2011, 07:22 PM
Maybe tthey should have included the OC and DC.

I'd be happy if the players kicked their(coaches) losing fooking asses

skum
09-25-2011, 07:33 PM
Maybe he will call another one, tell the team that 0-3 is no time to panic and we will be ok..

Blah

Traveling_Vike
09-26-2011, 01:03 AM
Players meeting worked really well, didn't it? Just look at the difference.

:rolleyes:

Chazz
09-26-2011, 04:18 PM
Now is it time to panic??

MulletMullitia
09-26-2011, 04:21 PM
Now is it time to panic??
Yep. The sky is falling. And I'm very serious.