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View Full Version : Jags, Vikings could soon turn to rookie QBs if struggles persist



MulletMullitia
09-20-2011, 11:00 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8226adab/article/jags-vikings-could-soon-turn-to-rookie-qbs-if-struggles-persist

By Albert Breer, NFL Network


Each Tuesday, NFL Network reporter Albert Breer will share his thoughts on topics around the NFL as teams transition from the previous Sunday's game to the next encounter on the schedule. Today, he begins with whether two teams should transition to their rookie-QBs-in-waiting.

If you examine the quarterbacks drafted in the first round from 2008-10, the trend to throwing young signal-callers to the wolves early is clear.

Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, and Sam Bradford all started on opening day. The two exceptions, Josh Freeman, who took the job in Tampa before his rookie year was out, and Tim Tebow, who got a taste at the end of 2010. And all that was a marked change from the three years previous, with all eight first-round quarterbacks from those drafts starting their careers with a clipboard.

In a way, that makes 2011 a throwback. Only one of this year's four first-round quarterbacks is starting.

A consequence of the lockout? Maybe. But it's also something that could change quickly.

Jacksonville and Minnesota both have veteran quarterbacks who, to put it mildly, struggled Sunday. One is anonymous and 1-1; the other famous and 0-2. Luke McCown and Donovan McNabb, respectively, certainly have reason to look over their shoulders at Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder.

The question then becomes not what's right for the old guy, but what's correct in developing the young guy whom the franchise has invested in heavily.

The answer: While conventional wisdom holds that it's best for a kid to sit, and Aaron Rodgers is certainly proof positive that it can work, there really isn't overwhelming evidence that playing early is that damaging. Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, Sanchez and Bradford in fact seemed to benefit from the experience, with three of the five going to the playoffs as rookies.

Conversely, Brady Quinn sitting over a year, or JaMarcus Russell and Alex Smith waiting didn't exactly fix flaws. In fact, 21 quarterbacks went in the first round from 2000-07, 19 of them sat at the start of Year 1 (Kyle Boller and David Carr being the exceptions), and seven didn't start a game as rookies. In that group, you have Rodgers and Philip Rivers. But you also have Quinn and J.P. Losman.

In the end, perhaps the most important thing is having an environment -- remember, Flacco, Ryan and Sanchez weren't asked to carry teams -- that prevents the quarterbacks from a) getting beat up too badly or b) developing bad habits because too much is being demanded of him.

For Minnesota and Jacksonville, having Adrian Peterson and Maurice Jones-Drew is a good start in taking the heat off. Same goes for the Titans with Chris Johnson, should decision time come with Jake Locker down the line (Matt Hasselbeck's been much better than McNabb or McCown thus far).

But the bottom line remains it's a matter of a rookie's readiness to handle that spotlight. What the past three years have proven is that going under it isn't necessarily a bad thing for a young quarterback.

BrisbaneTerrier
09-21-2011, 12:45 AM
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the Jags not starting Gabbert from week 1. At least McNabb has been a true #1 QB before, and there was (and maybe but doubtfully still is) a possibility that he could post a good few wins and performances resulting in an at least respectable season for us.

McCown had little chance from day 1.

singersp
09-21-2011, 06:26 AM
Vikings have 'no intention' of benching McNabb

And that's precisely why Frazier wants to provide some continuity for the veteran; yanking him out of the lineup and rolling with Ponder might work OK, but it also has the potential for immediate failure.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/32060650

singersp
09-21-2011, 06:30 AM
Charley Walters: Would an 0-3 start spur Vikings to start rooke QB Christian Ponder?

This season already appears wasted for the Vikings. Why not turn the QB job over to Ponder, ensure a high draft pick for next season and continue to rebuild?


http://www.twincities.com/ci_18928759?source=pkg

Purple Floyd
09-21-2011, 06:57 AM
Lunacy.

Marrdro
09-21-2011, 07:20 AM
They were talking about this yesterday on Sirius and they even went into detail about when we might see Ponder (assumption on their part was week 6).

I tend to disagree. If we were going to go with him we should have just done it. When/if they run Ponder out there we will be back at square one when it comes to the QB and the WR timing.

Now all we have to worry about getting down is the deep route timing.

Only way I see Ponder on the field by week 8 is if Dnabb gets hurt. After that, the only way he comes on the field is if we are having a loosing season.

Not sure about the rest of you, but I still think there is a good chance we make the playoffs.

singersp
09-21-2011, 07:43 AM
Only way I see Ponder on the field by week 8 is if Dnabb gets hurt. After that, the only way he comes on the field is if we are having a loosing season.



So what you're really saying is we'll see Ponder by week 10 (game 9) or earlier, since week 9 is our bye week.

Our next 6 opponents are;

Lions
Chiefs
Cardinals
Bears
Packers
Panthers

That should put us at about 2-6 or 3-5 at the half way mark.

Marrdro
09-21-2011, 07:51 AM
So what you're really saying is we'll see Ponder by week 10 (game 9) or earlier, since week 9 is our bye week.

Our next 6 opponents are;

Lions
Chiefs
Cardinals
Bears
Packers
Panthers


That should put us at about 2-6 or 3-5 at the half way mark.
I'm going out on a ledge here (actually been out there all year) but I'm gonna say we do the following:

Lions - Win. (On a side note. Watch Suh and you guys will see why I say we need help at DT)
Chiefs - Win.
Cardinals - Win. (They are having the same offensive problems we are having. Problem is, they have a dink/dunk QB trying to throw to a team that thrives on the deep ball.)
Bears - Loss (Still want to call this a win. If K-dubb comes back and fixes our DT issues I will call it a win. My guess, his return won't fix our DT problem)
Packers - Loss (Unless of course they keep having more injury issues. Seem to be mounting already)
Panthers - Win. Teams will have figured out that all you need to do is provide your CB's help over the top and force Cam to either check down or use his RB's.

BloodyHorns82
09-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Not sure about the rest of you, but I still think there is a good chance we make the playoffs.

Well, statistically speaking only 12% of teams make the playoffs after starting 0-2. That number drops to around 2% after starting 0-3.

I wonder how much lower it would be if you played in the same division as the previous season's Super Bowl winner, finished the previous season with 6 lowly wins and fourth place in your division, starting a new QB, and an entirely new coaching staff. Me thinks not very good at all.

I'm not very optimistic at our playoff chances right now...probably somewhere between slim and none. And I'm pretty sure I just saw Slim leave town with his head hung in shame after our last loss.

jmcdon00
09-21-2011, 11:24 AM
Well, statistically speaking only 12% of teams make the playoffs after starting 0-2. That number drops to around 2% after starting 0-3.

I wonder how much lower it would be if you played in the same division as the previous season's Super Bowl winner, finished the previous season with 6 lowly wins and fourth place in your division, starting a new QB, and an entirely new coaching staff. Me thinks not very good at all.

I'm not very optimistic at our playoff chances right now...probably somewhere between slim and none. And I'm pretty sure I just saw Slim leave town with his head hung in shame after our last loss.
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/10/17/2f0ef064-30c9-4482-bd57-cb4de74cc9cb.jpg

jmcdon00
09-21-2011, 11:26 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6999493/jacksonville-jaguars-start-blaine-gabbert-quarterback-carolina-panthers

Jags' Blaine Gabbert to start at Carolina

Marrdro
09-21-2011, 12:46 PM
Well, statistically speaking only 12% of teams make the playoffs after starting 0-2. That number drops to around 2% after starting 0-3.

I wonder how much lower it would be if you played in the same division as the previous season's Super Bowl winner, finished the previous season with 6 lowly wins and fourth place in your division, starting a new QB, and an entirely new coaching staff. Me thinks not very good at all.

I'm not very optimistic at our playoff chances right now...probably somewhere between slim and none. And I'm pretty sure I just saw Slim leave town with his head hung in shame after our last loss.
I hear ya my friend. You know me. I tend to be a bit optimistic for the most part.

For this team I just see two issues that should be easy to overcome....

a. Timing between Dnabb and the WR's. It did get better from the first to the second week. Heck we actually seen them try to go deep a bit to both Berrian and Orash.

b. DT play. Most on here believe that issue will be fixed when K-dubb comes back. I will go along with that for now, but fear that is gonna be a harder one to fix. Lets not forget, there is still the issue with his foot and truth be told, he isn't a 0 tech guy, which I believe is what this team is missing.

Maybe he will provide a bit better play at the 3 tech which will help Remi at the 0 technique.

Long story short, still going with a 10-6/11-5 record. :)

midgensa
09-21-2011, 01:19 PM
Well, statistically speaking only 12% of teams make the playoffs after starting 0-2. That number drops to around 2% after starting 0-3.

I wonder how much lower it would be if you played in the same division as the previous season's Super Bowl winner, finished the previous season with 6 lowly wins and fourth place in your division, starting a new QB, and an entirely new coaching staff. Me thinks not very good at all.

I'm not very optimistic at our playoff chances right now...probably somewhere between slim and none. And I'm pretty sure I just saw Slim leave town with his head hung in shame after our last loss.
We were one of those 0-2 teams in 2008 ... and the Giants won the Super Bowl after an 0-2 start in 2007 ... it happens more now than it did in the past.

I am not saying it is likely. I agree that I don't feel good about our playoff chances right now. But I definitely don't think we are terrible like many around these parts would have you believe. I don't know enough about the coaches to know if they can turn it around, but it was evident to me at points in the first two games that we have enough talent to turn it around with the right adjustments.

That last loss is a hearbreaker, but a win over the Lions would really put us heading in he right direction. So I hold out slim hope.

Marrdro
09-21-2011, 01:22 PM
We were one of those 0-2 teams in 2008 ... and the Giants won the Super Bowl after an 0-2 start in 2007 ... it happens more now than it did in the past.

I am not saying it is likely. I agree that I don't feel good about our playoff chances right now. But I definitely don't think we are terrible like many around these parts would have you believe. I don't know enough about the coaches to know if they can turn it around, but it was evident to me at points in the first two games that we have enough talent to turn it around with the right adjustments.

That last loss is a hearbreaker, but a win over the Lions would really put us heading in he right direction. So I hold out slim hope.
Excellent post.

BloodyHorns82
09-21-2011, 02:00 PM
We were one of those 0-2 teams in 2008 ... and the Giants won the Super Bowl after an 0-2 start in 2007 ... it happens more now than it did in the past.

I am not saying it is likely. I agree that I don't feel good about our playoff chances right now. But I definitely don't think we are terrible like many around these parts would have you believe. I don't know enough about the coaches to know if they can turn it around, but it was evident to me at points in the first two games that we have enough talent to turn it around with the right adjustments.

That last loss is a hearbreaker, but a win over the Lions would really put us heading in he right direction. So I hold out slim hope.

I agree there is always a chance, but since 1991 only 12% of teams have made it and yes that includes our 2008 Vikings who benefited from a much weaker division than the 2011 Vikings. I don't think we are as bad as some people are saying but while the competition has gotten better we have taken step or two backwards...and I think that is the main issue.

Freakout
09-21-2011, 02:50 PM
I would rather have Ponder starting. Although once I read him saying that he was still over thinking and adjusting to the speed of the game it gave me pause. Still it is a chicken or the egg situation and I don't feel either view is wrong.

What I do know is McNabb is a year rental at best. If Ponder is the future it would be in our best interest to find out sooner rather than later.

I had no delusion in thinking we had a Superbowl team this year. At our best we get bounced in the 1st round and the worst is we are looking at a future top 5 draft pick.

gabe_menendez
09-21-2011, 04:02 PM
I hear ya my friend. You know me. I tend to be a bit optimistic for the most part.

For this team I just see two issues that should be easy to overcome....

a. Timing between Dnabb and the WR's. It did get better from the first to the second week. Heck we actually seen them try to go deep a bit to both Berrian and Orash.

b. DT play. Most on here believe that issue will be fixed when K-dubb comes back. I will go along with that for now, but fear that is gonna be a harder one to fix. Lets not forget, there is still the issue with his foot and truth be told, he isn't a 0 tech guy, which I believe is what this team is missing.

Maybe he will provide a bit better play at the 3 tech which will help Remi at the 0 technique.

Long story short, still going with a 10-6/11-5 record. :) Its so refreshing to see someone with optimism, cant handle negative nancys.. Seriously SKOL Vikes!

BloodyHorns82
09-21-2011, 04:53 PM
Its so refreshing to see someone with optimism, cant handle negative nancys.. Seriously SKOL Vikes!

I'm fine with being optimistic but being blindly optimistic is just as dumb as being overly negative.

To think the Vikings are going to finish out the season 11-3 is, to me, being blindly optimistic. I respect Marr and his opinion but seeing this team go 11-3 is absolutely crazy. I'll shave my head completely bald, pierce both eyebrows. and get a tattoo of two dogs fucking if that happens.

With the outlook as bleak as it is right now, I'd tread lightly with tossing out the negative nancy card. At this point there is a very fine line between negative nancy and realist.

Personally even though I don't think this season is going to be a success, I don't feel all that negatively about it. Yeah it sucks our team isn't going to do that well but it's still fun to watch football and our team can only go up from a .000 winning percentage! Honestly I think we're a few years out. Lets face it, 09' was our year just like 98' was. Those types of seasons don't come around very often and unfortunately for us Vikings fans we couldn't get it done then. We don't seem to have magical years with mediocre talent like the banged up 10-6 packers squad of 2010, or the Giants of 2008.

gabe_menendez
09-21-2011, 05:00 PM
I can see us going 10-6

ejmat
09-21-2011, 05:06 PM
I'm not terribly pessamistic about the season. Fact is they played pretty well for 2 quarters of each game. if they can somehow play the entire game I see them doing pretty good. hell even if they played well for 3 quarters they'd be alright.

0-2 simply sucks especially seeing the talent this team has. What I hate seeing is our OL acting like turnstyles at the MSP. It's sickning to see the QB have to hurry each and every throw. It's been happening for years but this year is worst than in the past. Just my 2 cents.

A couple of quick notes. Sorry I've not posted lately. Been working a lot and barely have any free time. Also, wanted to say hello and welcome back to CMacD.

C Mac D
09-21-2011, 05:08 PM
I can see us going 10-6

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dT-DHVD-ef0/SXq0GD63bhI/AAAAAAAAANA/HblgrUsTTBQ/s400/glasses.jpg

BloodyHorns82
09-21-2011, 05:08 PM
I can see us going 10-6

I wouldn't bet against 10-6 even though I don't find it very likely. 8-8 sounds about right to me and honestly I think that may be optimistic.

gabe_menendez
09-21-2011, 05:20 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dT-DHVD-ef0/SXq0GD63bhI/AAAAAAAAANA/HblgrUsTTBQ/s400/glasses.jpg I hate you haha! Can you been banned again please. LOL jk what do you see us going?

C Mac D
09-21-2011, 05:21 PM
Also, wanted to say hello and welcome back to CMacD.

Hey buddy, thanks! Hope all is well.

Too bad there's no more Jackson vs Rosenfells vs Favre debates, but I'll try to keep it lively (and civil).

C Mac D
09-21-2011, 05:23 PM
I hate you haha! Can you been banned again please. LOL jk what do you see us going?

Honestly, I like the 10-6 call. The optimism makes me happy. Unfortunately, I think we'll be 6-10 again.

BH82 said 8-8, which in my opinion would be my ceiling for this team, but entirely possible.

ejmat
09-21-2011, 05:57 PM
Hey buddy, thanks! Hope all is well.

Too bad there's no more Jackson vs Rosenfells vs Favre debates, but I'll try to keep it lively (and civil).
Thanks C. All is good. I look forward to more debates. I'm sure they'll be a Ponder vs Webb or McNabb somewhere in the near future. lol Seriuosly, glad you're back.

singersp
09-21-2011, 07:48 PM
Hey buddy, thanks! Hope all is well.


Quote Originally Posted by ejmat
Also, wanted to say hello and welcome back to CMacD.

Ditto that!

If you're going to use Childress' pic as your avatar, you could have at least used this one.......

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/singersp82759/smilies/CmacD3.jpg

Zeus
09-21-2011, 08:13 PM
i wouldn't bet against 10-6 even though i don't find it very likely. 8-8 sounds about right to me and honestly i think that may be optimistic.

4-12.

=z=

Traveling_Vike
09-21-2011, 10:26 PM
Back in that thread, I had posted my prediction for the season as 8-8, possibly 9-7 if we get hot late. That included a 1-3 start. We're still on track for that.

If we manage to win the Detroit game, I will revise that upward by one game, mostly due to Kansas City's horrendous start and severe losses. I figured we'd lose there but now it looks like a win to me. I feel bad for them, losing two of their top playmakers on offense, and possibly their best defender, all for the season.

If we end up 2-2 after week 4, I think we're in decent shape. I still have serious doubts as to a playoff appearance because there are so many good teams in the NFC, but 10-6 might do it while 9-7 probably won't. I have a feeling that if we do make it, it will be along with one of our divisional foes as the other wildcard. They are all pretty good, and it would be unlikely that all of them would fall short..

I still think it will come down to the two late NFC South games vs. New Orleans and Atlanta. Win those two and we have a shot.

gabe_menendez
09-21-2011, 11:25 PM
4-12.

=z= 4-12? That is a a little off. I see at least 6 wins. Hoping for 10 wins!

Purple Floyd
09-22-2011, 07:21 AM
Hey buddy, thanks! Hope all is well.

Too bad there's no more Jackson vs Rosenfells vs Favre debates, but I'll try to keep it lively (and civil).

99

BloodyHorns82
09-22-2011, 10:23 AM
Come on guys, lets be optimistic... 14-2!!!!

Superbowl homeboy!

MulletMullitia
09-22-2011, 11:17 AM
Come on guys, lets be optimistic... 14-2!!!!

Superbowl homeboy!

I like your style! And you forgot to mention Floyd's McNabb tattoo :)

C Mac D
09-22-2011, 11:20 AM
Come on guys, lets be optimistic... 14-2!!!!

Superbowl homeboy!

Yeah, why not?

14-2, Adrian Peterson MVP, Percy Harvin Super Bowl MVP. Book it.

Purple Floyd
09-22-2011, 11:23 AM
I like your style! And you forgot to mention Floyd's McNabb tattoo :)

At this point it would be an honor to lose.

Unfortunately I really think we are :hump:

bleedpurple
09-22-2011, 11:37 AM
At this point it would be an honor to lose.

Unfortunately I really think we are :hump:

i agree... but unfortunately we won't be bad enough to get Frazier fired and draft Luck... that's what needs to happen for us to have any hope of a competent team...

what is with Zygi hiring all these dumb ass coaches... it's so frustrating...

Frazier is like Obama.. I like the guy, but he has no clue what he's doing!!... unfortunately

Marrdro
09-23-2011, 09:12 AM
Its so refreshing to see someone with optimism, cant handle negative nancys.. Seriously SKOL Vikes!
Thanks my friend.

Just remember this when I piss you off about something else. Hate to say it, even though I won't try to, I will.

One of my failings in life is that I have a personality like a bent shitcan.:)

thorshammer
09-24-2011, 08:54 AM
4-12.

=z=

Had no idea you were a realist ..... lol